Why are some women obsessed with independence?

Wonderful_Layer_8901 · 2023-01-19T09:33:58+00:00

It's lovely to lean on a man, but it should be out of choice, not incapacity.

Men are human - they can falter and fail and leave us and God forbid die. There is no excuse nowadays to not be able to look after ourselves and give ourselves the lifestyle that we want should things go wrong.

kokoremu · 2023-01-19T15:22:11+00:00

I know for me I was a very independent woman because of how my father did my mother and family. I found out that day my father left all men were not leaders....well I kinda thought all men, plus every woman in my family telling me men weren't trustworthy and cheaters didn't help. I learned that these women just picked terrible men and had children with them so it was them making silly decisions. I think a lot of women have had similar things happen where from a young age they are taught to not see men as leaders and the whole 'you can do bad all by yourself' for protection however it does no good in the long wrong

AgreeableAd7689 · 2023-01-19T10:14:38+00:00

Some women have been taught since childhood to be independent because we don’t have men in our lives to rely on. When you have a taste of independence, it does feel good. You don’t have to be patient because you do everything in your own pace and time. You don’t have to fear someone ruining your plans because you make them and you adjust exactly to your liking.

It’s amazing until… You start to realize later in life that men also have the same taste of independence and now you’re both clashing because men naturally are not submissive.

Instead of now self reflecting on our own roles as a woman, we just justify the independence and end up single at 40. We decide not to teach ourselves how to start from scratch and rebuild feminism because it’s harder. It’s self sacrifice at a certain point in life. A sacrifice, independent women, know in much detail how different it is from being submissive.

The beauty in it though, is that it helps build team work. Shows us dependency is also beautiful, patient, forgiving, calming (slower paced) and everything feminine.

It’s worth the rocky journey in my opinion.

sunglasses90 · 2023-01-19T12:25:34+00:00

Submission and allowing the man to lead is one thing. Being completely dependent is another thing. There is unhealthy dependency just like there’s unhealthy independence.

I think you are actually bordering the unhealthy dependence. The swimming thing is actually dangerous. You need to be able to swim on your own and not depend on someone else. Entering bodies of water when you don’t know how to swim is dangerous. What if your husband needs help? You can’t swim to get help. What if he needs to help someone else and there’s an emergency? You’re just gonna float there?

Also, husbands die. I’m so scared for when my dad dies because my mom doesn’t even know how to pay the light bill. It’s not cute. It’s childish really. You need a healthy dose of reality to live in even in a RP relationship just so you don’t become a burden to your husband or family.

banjocatto · 2023-01-19T17:53:51+00:00

There's a distinction that needs to be made. Does she have a strong dislike towards men? (I.e., "men are trash") or does she simply find comfort in knowing that she can support herself?

I've spoken even to older women (in their 80s and 90s) and even they have said it's not good to rely on a person to the point that you would become destitute should something happen.

Striving for independence, and ensuring you have the ability to be independent should SHTF are two different things. It is not a good thing to be completely reliant on another person to the point that you wouldn't know how to navigate basic necessities of life such as the job market, the housing market, how to pay bills, finances, what to do in an emergency, how to drive, etc.

Of course, people can organize and conduct their relationships as they see fit. That's perfectly fine, but there certain things that adults should just know how to do.

RosaDellaCasa · 2023-01-19T23:44:50+00:00

You are an adult woman who can’t swim and is nervous about hiking? You sound like you think it’s 'cute' in an endearing and feminine way since your husband has to 'protect you.' No. This is very concerning. There is nothing attractive or feminine about being unable to function normally. Hiking is walking…why do you need your husband‘s help to walk? Feminine women receive. What you describe is incompetence. Quite different.

downtownbrunch · 2023-01-19T17:30:35+00:00

There’s a difference between submitting to your man and co-dependency. It sounds like you’re well aware that you’re in a co-dependent relationship, and that’s fine, but you go on to justify why it works well to be instead of acknowledging that you’re codependent because you want to be. Of course it’s going to be seen as ridiculous that you opt not to learn to swim because you’d rather hold on to your man’s arm or whatever, and of course people are going to view your man as a toddler if he’d starve without you because both of you are incompetent at performing a basic life skill. It doesn’t matter how much “but we’re a team! :)” you shout from the rooftops.

No one has ever done themselves a disservice by investing the time to learn a new skill. Especially skills as important as providing a nutritious meal for oneself or learning to swim through a body of water in the event of an accident. I personally stay at home while my man works to provide for our bills. He’s also in charge of maintaining the cars, communicating with our mortgage lender, and putting in work orders to our HOA. Likewise, I cook fresh meals, clean all parts of our home, and care for our pets’ diets, vet appts, grooming, etc. We each taught the other our skills so in the event either of one of us becomes incapable for any reason, the other is not left struggling. Why would it be ideal to simply not know that because my partner is here to do it for me instead?

Rook_Cross · 2023-01-19T20:30:20+00:00

Sounds like you couldn't take a minor comment, not criticism, comment, from your friend and are now trying to justify yourself, throw shade on her and are just blowing it out of proportion. It's not attractive for an adult to be incapable. You're going for a hike. You're husband shouldn't have to hold your hand the whole way (as in needing to, it's fine if you like holding hands as a couple in the romantic sense), you're an adult, you've walked outdoors before, don't act like a baby. You seem to take your examples here as proof of you just being feminine or something, like bragging you're more lady like, when they seem, either ridiculous, or just something that was convenient at the time. Your friend isn't obsessed with independence, you just seem to want to act precious. You blew it out of proportion and just further embarrassed yourself, let it go. Being dependent doesn't mean being useless. Being independent usually also doesn't mean not needing anyone. You're friend probably means not being coddled in this situation, being capable. I'll only add, if you have anxiety or something, that might explain some of this behavior. In which case, ok, I understand you needing this extra help. Otherwise, stop reading so much into your friend's harmless comments. She's not obsessed with independence, you're obsessed with seeing her as some strong independent caricature.

Spiritual-Spell-9351 · 2023-01-19T14:52:54+00:00

Nobody said it was an issue to be dependent on a partner. That’s fine if it works for you. But you have to remember that we’re all different people and we all have different priorities in life.

For some, being independent gives them a sense of empowerment and self sufficiency while others might feel like that sounds miserable. Independence is a big part of feminism, which is why some lean into the enjoyment of being able to fully provide for themselves in some way.

I think you also have to consider how much family dynamics and upbringing can shape a person. Sometimes kids grow up in homes where they were forced to be dependent and independence feels like a rebellion to them. Or they grew up with neglect and they had to be independent from a young age.

I’m very much an independent woman, and the thought of relying on anyone seems scary to me. But I can totally see the benefit of having a partner to help with difficult tasks, etc. I’ve always really liked being someone capable of doing hard tasks and home repairs by myself. And I think we all have such vastly different personalities so that factors in as well.

I guess it’s one of those ‘to each their own’ things.

rosesonthefloor · 2023-01-19T18:01:26+00:00

I think you hit the nail on the head with your comments about your differing backgrounds. If your friend never had someone she could depend on in the way you depend on your husband, then of course she wouldn’t be able to understand it. Meanwhile you had the template with your parents, so it’s more normal for you.

That seems to be a lot of what it comes down to. A drive for independence is a reaction to their lived experience, and is a way to try and protect themself from things that can go wrong in life, and from people they can’t depend on. It’s also a way to derive self worth and feel useful/valuable/capable in a world that has historically and systematically devalued household labour or “women’s work”.

But of course we know that people have value in different ways, that femininity and traditionally feminine skills are valuable, and that having complimentary skillsets (masculine/feminine) helps relationships thrive!

That’s why I really like the Captain and First Mate analogy. My partner is my Captain - he leads the ship, makes key decisions, and tackles the toughest problems. But as his First Mate, he also relies on me to help navigate, to handle other duties that he doesn’t have time for, and to take things off of his plate if needed. Both roles are necessary to have a well-functioning relationship - and we both depend on each other for different things.

There’s nothing wrong with depending on a partner as long as it doesn’t cross the line into codependency. But unfortunately it seems as though the narrative has shifted from “partners should depend on each other” to “you should never depend on anyone for anything” which honestly, sounds like a pretty sad way to live.

FriendCountZero · 2023-01-19T19:09:14+00:00

Within marriage it is safe to be dependent. You can rely on him and he can rely on you even if sometimes it's just for emotional support.

Outside of marriage, dependence kills. You think you can rely on your job and then one day it's gone. You think you're going to renew your lease, then they don't give you the option. If you worked for yourself, if you owned your home, then people who pretend to care about you wouldn't have the power to take things from you.

It's also the times. In the 90s, it was cool to act like traditionalism is outdated. Boys and girls are the same, everyone should go to college, women need to be 50% of the work force, etc and it was all in the name of equality. Many little girls were raised to believe they needed to compete with boys and earn their spot in the world. It messed us up bad.

2023-01-19T18:39:16+00:00

Independence offers freedom, freedom offers choices, choices mean independence.

LeicaRedEye · 2023-01-20T11:32:45+00:00

Humans survive and thrive in groups,we are social animals and we do better in a group than alone. Small groups like a family or larger like a country. So the idea that everyone MUST BE INDEPENDENT as if it's a normal and expected human trait, it's kind of crazy and in all honesty dangerous. Social isolation leads to vulnerability and affects health and well being.

Never forget misery loves company, and miserable lonely people want everyone around them to be lonely and miserable.

Take care!

AutoModerator · 2023-01-19T09:08:31+00:00

Title: Why are some women obsessed with independence?

Full text: My friend, who is lovely, is 40 and single. She hasn’t been in a relationship in a long time but isn’t really actively looking for one so I’m not out here feeling better than her or bad for her. Her life path works for her.

She’s been giving me a bit of uphill because (you may have seen my previous post) I am going hiking and my husband has promised not to leave my side. She keeps telling me and him I don’t need that and that I should be independent.

I also used to swim freestyle at galas and stopped swimming completely in high school because “my hair” and “my shoulders” - very silly decision because I’ve kind of forgotten how to swim. I can stay afloat, I won’t drown, but I’m not confident. When we go snorkelling, my husband does the swimming and i just hold his hand to stabilise myself. Further commentary on independence.

I do want to improve at hiking and get back to swimming but it’s not a priority. When I do it, it’ll be because I want to - not because I need to be independent.

And other things: my husband oversees renovations, issues with our new apartment, does all the driving, engages contractors, etc.

I am very much dependent on him and see no issue. I do what I can but I am support and he is command. That’s it.

Imagine me saying this to my friend. I think she’d pass out. I actually can’t say this to anyone in my life and it makes me sad.

^{This is the original text of the post and this is an automated service}

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Automatic-Praline568 · 2023-01-19T14:16:34+00:00

I think this is totally fine. We are still feeling the effects of third-wave feminism where "all men are bad." & "we don't need men." But, I think if you choose the right man (emphasisi on right man), it is easy and even comforting to lean on him. After all, he wants to help and provide and be of service to you. He wants what you want and takes you into consideration. You trust your boss to lead your company... why not trust your man to lead your relationship.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2023-01-20T00:10:32+00:00

Her life path works for her.

Maybe yes, maybe no. Maybe it's a façade. Lots of "STRONG!" and "INDEPENDENT!" women secretly wish that the pitter patter of cat feet around the house were really the pitter patter of children's feet.

She keeps telling me and him I don’t need that and that I should be independent.

Why "should" you do smth that you don't want to do? Did you ask her for advice?

Say, "Thanks for your advice" and then change the subject. If she keeps up, say "I have to do what's right for me." If she keeps up say "I am happy with my life, kindly stop interfering." If she keeps up, dump her as your friend because at that point she does not have your best interests at heart.

rpujoe · 2023-01-19T17:55:24+00:00

Unless she's independently wealthy or drawing a pension of some kind, she is NOT "independent". Most "strong and independent don't need no man" type of women are actually quite dependent on men.

Even if they're not dependent on an employer for their income, then they are still dependent on the men who build the roads, keep the lights on, pick up the trash, etc.

To wit, men are an essential need for society to function and a foundational part of every man AND WOMAN'S life. Nobody is independent of what we provide in some way, shape, or form.

Follow on social media

hawkeyebullz · 2023-01-19T16:35:24+00:00

She is projecting on you... she realizes she is a "forever alone" woman and must drag you down to her level

Christly_cutie · 2023-02-03T13:45:12+00:00

I’m still fairly young(teen) however I come from a culture that is traditional when it comes to marriage and the roles of men and women. I’m so happy to see that there are people in the West that think like me. Feminine and submissive. People that don’t see anything wrong with being dependent on a man(husband). It’s almost like it’s a crime to be a feminine woman nowadays. I could never say such things out loud for the feminists would attack me, but I do hold these beliefs close to my heart because I plan on being a housewife and SAHM soon. I’m glad I’ve found a place with brilliant like minded women. I no longer feel alone. May God bless you all.

Title	Why are some women obsessed with independence?
Author	jenna_grows
Upvotes	49
Comments	48
Date	January 19, 2023 9:08 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/RedPillWomen
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/RedPillWomen/comments/10fx60n/why_are_some_women_obsessed_with_independence/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/RedPillWomen/why-are-some-women-obsessed-with-independence.1149769 https://theredarchive.com/post/1149769