~ archived since 2018 ~

Why do women have to do EVERYTHING nowadays?

March 5, 2020

I feel so much pressure to do it all. Excel in my field (computer science), be beautiful (makeup, hair, outfit: which I enjoy), have a nice body (lifting: which I enjoy), date and be in a relationship (I want this), have many friends, sleep 8 hours a night, have fun in college, relax, learn things on my own, PLUS have hobbies. I feel like things were so much easier when all women had to worry about was looking beautiful, being a good wife candidate, and finding a husband, then starting a family. I feel like this is exactly what would make me happy, because I like doing myself up and looking nice and getting positive compliments from everyone, I like working out and dieting, I like feminine hobbies like cooking and cleaning and gardening, I like dating, I like taking care of kids. I like taking care of a house. Why do I have to do all the other stuff, why do feel the push to get this degree when I don’t even want to work because it doesn’t align with my values. I feel like this feminism stuff just messed things up for women. Now we have to play the role of the woman and man. I just want to be a woman... Edit: thank you for the gold! This is my first time getting gold. Very exciting. Lol.

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[–][deleted] 84 points85 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You don't have to.

You just have to do / be what you want and ignore the messages that come at you from everywhere else.

[–]EnemyAsmodeus[🍰] 20 points21 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

things were so much easier when all women had to worry about was looking beautiful, being a good wife candidate, and finding a husband

There's a comedian lady who made this joke once that young people ruined it by convincing women to go for big careers and become workaholics as she watched the relaxed soccer mom with her kids in the park with yoga pants.

I myself am still waiting for the day I can become a stay-at-home husband.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Don't do it. I let my Husband become a SAHD. It was start of the decline of our marriage as I slogged my guts out and he had a lovely relaxing time. SAHD when the kids are at school 9-3? He had it made lol.

[–]EnemyAsmodeus[🍰] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hehe yeah, I probably won't because NOT working/sacrificing/responsibilities can lead to depression too.

But it is definitely luxurious! And it's not so bad for a woman if they're involved with club activities or running a small business from home or taking care of kids (that's still working).

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This looks an awful lot like bait. Removed.

[–][deleted] 44 points45 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. If you're not passionate about the degree, go be a receptionist in a nice area of town, date with purpose until you find a good man who can support a SAHM and work until you have kids.

I love my job, but I also don't maintain the thriving social life our Instagram loving world encourages. I have work friends and family and my best friend is my husband. That's enough for me. Something has to give.

[–]sasquatch_pants 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have work friends and family and my best friend is my husband. That's enough for me.

Aaaw this is me too! Have my family (sisters are my best female friends) and work is where I socialize and I am completely content with this!

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars 132 points133 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

It sucks! I think the main problem [edit: that we can control - I'm not arguing the causes!] is that we expect so much of our lives compared to then. A single income family used to go on holidays within their own state, drive a single or two cars and replace them every now and again, have a single TV, and have limited wardrobes, entertainment budgets, etc. But now, everyone wants to live a much higher-cost lifestyle - so of course it requires two incomes. I try to live as frugally as I can so that my husband and I can afford to work less, or not at all.

[–]chevoltre 32 points33 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I like this comment.

Remember - you cant control how others live their lives. You CAN control how YOU live yours.

Keep doing your frugal living thing - i personally agree with that (and do the same)

[–]EnemyAsmodeus[🍰] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Work is just a way to earn a living. That's why it's important to remember that you are saving money for something, you're not just saving for saving sake. You're not just building up your career or your job, just for the career sake, or for prestige. You're doing it for money. You're doing it out of greed or saving for that vacation. And that's a good thing, that's honesty.

[–]ragnarockette5 Stars 23 points24 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

In some areas you need 2 incomes to even afford like the most basic apartment! And you have to live in some random, expensive area to split the difference between 2 jobs.

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars 3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yep! We deliberately moved to an area where house prices are about half of what they were in the city we were living in. I love it! Not least because we can afford it on one median salary :)

[–]ragnarockette5 Stars 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

My husband and I are majorly city people, but we’re lucky to live in a smaller, but still cosmopolitan city. We hated the year we spent in the Bay Area!

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My city is small but cosmopolitan enough for me! Yes, big cities are often ridiculous.

[–]chevoltre 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Which cities fit the smaller but cosmopolitan city category? Nashville TN? Indianapolis IN? Columbus OH? Thanks

[–]ragnarockette5 Stars 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes I think those are both great examples. Raleigh, Atlanta, New Orleans, Minneapolis, Madison, Sacramento.

[–]5400123 19 points20 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

It’s not that people want a more luxurious lifestyle. It’s that the federal reserve / monied elite purposefully engineered monetary policy to attack the nuclear family in unison with their cultural agenda. The dollar loses 2-3% value every year. So if your income doesn’t increase by at least 3% every year, you lose money.

[–]bastrdsnbroknthings 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]5400123 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yep, exactly. Smug intellectuals arguing the nuclear family was a mistake and that we need communism in order to heal “our departure from extended , multigenerational families.”

[–]simps_get_pussy 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You think the Atlantic is for communism?

[–]5400123 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Read the article. They are practically screaming the “it takes a village” mantra of Marxists.

[–]simps_get_pussy 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you think the Atlantic is for communism?

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it's a combination of both. One income could handle inflation when a) wages were reasonable and b) expenditure was reasonable.

[–]LateralThinker13Endorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

wages were reasonable

You can earn $60k+ per year, enough for a family if you're frugal, just by apprenticing as an electrician for a few years. No degree, no high IQ, no college required. Wages are reasonable if you don't live in a high-density blue state... or if you specialize in something lucrative.

My cousin is earning something like 180k/year starting out of college because she is a skilled computer programmer and made the right connections. I get that these kinds of jobs aren't common. But as I said, even an 18-year-old can apprentice as an electrician or other trade and be making GOOD money by the time he'd have finished college, and have zero debt to boot.

Wages are reasonable. Peoples' expenditures are moronic. Thousand-dollar cell phones? Idiots.

[–]thesillymachine 11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So many people complain about being middle-class and it has me so confused. I don't understand how you can be unhappy when all of your needs are being met and you can pay back your student loans or save or go out, ect. They don't understand what true poverty is, nor what being poor in a first world country means. I forget the statistic, but most the world is middle-class.

[–]relaxilla420 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You just described my parents. They make enough together to go on regular out of state vacations, visit me 3,000 miles away every other year, buy whatever they want (dad just got some new toy from LL Bean), have 3 or 4 cars (for the two of them), etc. They're retiring next year at like 65.

THEY COMPLAIN. It's never ever enough. I would be happy with 1/4 of what they have. Its mind blowing. Maybe they have different expectations, growing up and living in the 80s and 90s but geez

[–]LateralThinker13Endorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maybe they have different expectations, growing up and living in the 80s and 90s but geez

Nope. Grew up in the 80s and I'm very grateful. it's a cultural thing. Their mentality is unhealthy.

[–]ialexei 11 points12 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The real reason why 2 incomes are needed now is because women entered the work force. When an entire generation of men came back from the world wars, they had ptsd which they couldn’t open up and talk about. So they drank. And took it out on their wives and kids. This created a whole generation of women who distrusted men. And so feminism was born. Women entered the workforce and therefore number of workers doubled, wages halved. Supply and demand. Feminism started to grow and grow when women realized working in a mans world really isn’t suited for them. Anyway, that’s why two incomes are needed now... wages just balanced out that way.

[–]bsutansaltTRP Founding Fathers 10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yup. Supply & Demand 101. The available pool of labor effectively doubled thereby halving the cost (how much people got paid). This is why wages have stagnated over the past 40 years or so, which H1B visas and illegal immigrants working under the table has only exacerbated.

And I recommend doing a bit of research on the powers that be who funded those 2nd wave feminists that drove women out of the home--it was your rich industrialists. They wanted cheaper labor and basically conned women into thinking they were being downtrodden and used the feminists of their day as their pawns. This would be your Rockerfellers, Rothschilds, and such.

[–]teaandtalk5 Stars 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. It's in corporate interests to have everyone working. That way, they have cheaper labor AND can sell us more convenience meals.

[–]ialexei 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I also understand that previously, women weren’t taxed on their income. Because of all of this you now have to pay income taxes. The reason for now tax previously was because a working woman was usually a widow and needed all the help she could get

[–]TheSkyIsFalling113 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And I recommend doing a bit of research on the powers that be who funded those 2nd wave feminists that drove women out of the home--it was your rich industrialists.

Do you have sources/books the mention this topic? I've never heard this perspective and I'd like to read more about it

[–]loneliness-inc 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the main problem is that we expect so much of our lives compared to then.


Everything has a cost. This is part of the cost of living the luxurious lifestyle that we live.

The good news is, that u/treetreetree3737 can indeed live the lifestyle she yearns for by joining the amish community or similar communities.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I want to live rich


I dont want the pressure of a rich life

You cannot have both. Many women back then enjoyed a simple life. But it was a simple life. Feminism makes it possible that women can work for a rich life, which you want to do. You fall for feminism.

[–]Pola_Lita 53 points54 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's your approach. You're supposed to select what appeals to you and then do those things that are likely to make them a reality in your life. I don't think anyone is capable or should even try to do every single thing feminism has made possible.

[–]name1231504 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel that it’s a dilemma that many of rpw woman have. We look at old school images and movies and we see women as .. just beautiful women. But don’t you think that being just that has another scary side? Insecurity, complete dependence, fear of instability? It’s like putting all your eggs in one basket. Nothing is forever, everything is constantly changing, and your life situation can also change. I feel like times a way better now because women are better adapted to change.

My train of thought is like this: I’m more than just a woman, I’m a human who has many interests and keeps growing, who happens to also enjoy being a woman. So, as an individual, my life doesn’t revolve around anyone, it revolves around me, my interests, my hobbies, my self improvement, my profession. I get a kick of doing all those things, and it makes me an even better woman. All of that was happening when I was single, and keeps happening when I’m in relationship. Whether a woman chooses to work or not- it doesn’t matter. What matters is what is left of a woman, when you look at her as an individual, not as part of relationship.

Think about how to achieve that lifestyle, while not being completely dependent on your SO. Think about what would life become if anything happened to the SO.

[–]Dr__Noonian__Soong 26 points27 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I was a little girl in the 80’s, I had to get up in front of the class and tell everyone what I wanted to be (we all had to do it). I said I wanted to be a waitress. The teacher laughed at me, then made a snarky comment about getting my butt grabbed by guys. I learned quickly afterwards that I had to be an astronaut, lawyer, or scientist. I’m none of those things now but...

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

i’ve thought about this a lot. i think having a (useful, lucrative) degree is very important if you have the opportunity to acquire one. being able to be financially independent is key to having your own agency as a person. it prevents you from being stuck in a relationship with someone who is toxic if the relationship goes sour. i realized this as someone who grew up with a housewife for a mother and had a father as the sole breadwinner of the house. if my mother (who has only a high school degree) wants to leave, she’ll be impoverished.

[–]danyixa 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My mom used to work in retail, she’s from Italy and growing up her parents actually didn’t want her to go to HS since back in the day you had to pay and her parents weren’t rich at all. She worked in retail until she had my brother and has heart issues so she can’t work. My dad owns a business so he keeps the family afloat. He is just starting up another one too. My mom also is on disability so she gets money from the government. If it was totally different where my dad wasn’t making enough.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

That’s why I’m getting a degree, for the security. I know it’s important. The fact that I need to get a degree for security is the problem.

[–]NixieNik99 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are not as they use to be . It's funny you say this cause I've worked in long term care facilities and the older ladies have always admired us girls that achieved independent financial security . Cause they lived in a time where they waited on the man to provide everything . It's a great idea but those ladies suffered for that simple life . Nothing wrong with obtaining a little security for yourself they say.
I'm in the medical field . It's a rewarding career and mostly female dominated.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

i mean, you don’t have too. most women in history didn’t—but most women were used to being powerless in relationships too. cheating husbands and physical abuse were (and are) pretty common. most women just put up with it because they have no other choice. a degree gives you choice

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A willingness to work gives you a choice. I made decent money working as an office manager while I completed my degree. My husband worked as a dispatcher while completing his. Plenty of people with degrees cannot find work because they believe that certain things are beneath them. Some degrees can get you a job at Starbucks.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

A degree is just a piece of paper, and your understanding of historical relationships between the sexes appears to have been handed to you by someone with a Gender Studies piece of paper.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

a useful degree (emphasis on useful) is often the difference of tens of thousands of dollars for your annual salary. imagine: two equally qualified people, one with a degree and one without. 99% of the time, they're gonna pick the one with the degree.

i don't study gender studies lol. that's basically the same as having no degree if you're going to school to increase your economic potential

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I am aware of the difference a decent education makes in one's salary - I earn one of those high salaries with a highly marketable engineering degree.

I also make hiring decisions, and I have ended more than one interview early because it became clear that the applicant's degree wasn't worth the paper it was written on. This is a growing problem the US's failing education system has created over decades of mismanagement.

You seem to be conflating credentialism with competence, and an analogous attitude applied to dating and vetting can result in a bad relationship further down the line.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i’m not conflating either. i’m saying specifically having that piece of paper increases your salary. it doesn’t mean you’re a better worker or necessarily more qualified (although that certainly is the case sometimes, i’d argue more often than not), but others will assume you are. to reiterate my original point: a degree gives you more options

there is no way i would find an entry level position in my desired field without a bachelor’s degree at the very least. every single internship position i’ve found requires it as well

[–]ReduceReuseRecycleMe 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel the same way! It’s exhausting honestly. I hope to one day reconcile with the fact that it’s okay if I don’t do everything, just that I try at what’s important to me!

[–]Thyra- 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I always get looked down on when I tell people I am perfectly happy working my office job and wouldn't mind working less hours in order to take care of the home. Apparently no woman can be fulfilled by supporting others. I dont enjoy to idea of having to go to school for years only to work a job I dont want or enjoy. I rather support a man who actually wants it and then in turn support our children if that's what they want. I dont want to be a "do it all" woman. I just want a more simple life and to be happy.

[–]ragnarockette5 Stars 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think what is really challenging for me specifically is that I want all those things.

I enjoy working (and making money), want to be pretty and fit, love spending time with my girlfriends, cooking and decorating my house, want to travel to interesting destinations, and I don’t want to be boring so I try to read and do cool things. Oh and I have a husband who wants to do all of these things too! It’s just so much. I think the internet makes it hard because it’s so much easier to become dissatisfied and jealous of others.

Coffee helps!

[–]curious_girl_5 20 points21 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I just want to be a woman...

My advice to you here is to try and implement that strategy into your personal life as much as you can.

date and be in a relationship (I want this)

First off, you need to understand that there is a difference between 'dating' and 'relationships'. You need to understand that there is a dating phase (vetting period) before there is even a relationship; especially, if you feel like you have a bad time in this space. Also, it's mentioned all the time here, but you need to keep this in mind...

  • Women (we) are the gatekeepers of sex.
  • Men are the gatekeepers of commitment.

Keep in mind when you are in the dating phase with an HVM, that you might be in that phase for anywhere from 6, 8, 10 months, to over a year. Make sure you are that "feminine complement" to his life and wanting to enter his frame. I would suggest reading up on the info that the mods have provided.

Finally, please take the time and read this book; 'The Practical Guide to Men: How to Spot the Hidden Traits of Good Men and Great Relationships' by Dr. Shawn T. Smith. You need to get better at vetting men and taking your time when it comes to the dating phase, which only comes with time, information, and understanding of the DMP. Good luck.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok yes I know dating and relationships are different; that’s why I said dating AND relationships... I take my time with dating and I’ve never been in a real relationship. I appreciate your advice but even just dating around is stressful enough.

[–]dctrmoose 11 points12 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Hi, I am a 42 year old married man. My wife is 31 and she is a stay at home mom. I was only able to do this because I am 11 years older than my wife, have an engineering degree, and scratched and clawed my way to a management position that is not rewarding and I cannot wait to retire. It was a hellish climb to get here and I understand why most people can't or don't want to.

I don't want to do this either, but I agreed to take on this role. Very few men want this sole responsibility anymore.

Millions of women fought for equality between the sexes and the right to CHOOSE. With that comes a high level of responsibility. It is your choice to accept that responsibility or not, but you better understand the world is different today and men are different today. If women did not fight for this it would be far easier for men to be the sole bread winner because the current labor force would be cut in half.

Depending on where you live it is impossible to make it on one salary. A down payment on a average house is 90K to 150K. Men don't want to shoulder all that responsibility either.

Therefore your post reads like you are complaining and you want the Disney Princess life. Maybe I am wrong, but my view is you don't HAVE to do any of the things you mentioned. You are CHOOSING to do all of them.

I married my wife and ALLOWED her be a stay at home mom for many reasons...One of those reasons is: she spent 8 years working in sales at an industrial distributor and 5 years as a flight attendant and she can empathize with my life. I would not have married someone if she wasn't capable of understanding corporate America and how hard it truly is. By the way she also didn't go to college and still made a decent living. I would never have married her if she had college debt. Be careful, If you don't plan on working in your field and paying off your debt....STOP GOING TO COLLEGE RIGHT NOW. It is unfair to expect someone to take on that burden.

Most men aren't looking for a trophy wife; they are looking for someone to take on some of the burden. I just happened to be in a unique position to allow for my wife to stay at home for the betterment of our family unit. We discussed everything before hand pre-nups, divorce, how much she can spend, her set plan to contribute in the future.

I'm not saying this to be mean, I am saying this to paint a picture of life in general. You need to put a plan together and implement it....not do what you think everyone expects you to. And, if someone else is required to make that plan a reality you'd better talk early and often and line up your expectations.

[–]Elevyn11 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This comment... needs to be printed and handed out to women everywhere(maybe shorten some parts)🤔But. . As a woman myself. Who has experienced every side of life I possibly can in 29 yrs. .. agree with this man. Hands down the best thing I have read in this place on this topic so far. 🙌✍💯

[–]dctrmoose 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you

[–]relaxilla420 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You need to put a plan together and implement it....not do what you think everyone expects you to.

I wish someone told me this 10 years ago. Seriously good advice in this post, I hope OP takes it to heart

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]treetreetree3737[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I understand what you’re saying. I’m not looking for some princess life or whatever you’re saying. I’m getting a degree in my field so I can work from home while I’m a stay at home mom. But the fact that I have to do that annoys me. My parents are paying for my education and I’m thankful, I won’t be in any debt. I’m choosing to do all this because I want a lot for my future. But it’s very difficult to do it all.

[–]dctrmoose 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well that makes sense and I wasn't trying to be mean, but isn't it hard for us all (men or women)? There are only so many hours in the day and you choose the things that are most important for your future. You have to sacrifice some things some areas of your life. I had a huge group of "friends" when I was I have like 2 and they live in other states. It's just me and my wife. Sit down and determine what is important for your long term future.

[–]charella8 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Have you tried putting the "self-care" label on what's important to you? Sorry you have the expectation to code all the time and such.

It seems like you have been provided a great opportunity. You may find that working is rewarding. Have you ever had a full time job with nice coworkers and/or a good company culture?

I really struggled with the fact I had to return to work after I had my LO and would complain to my husband. He asked if I could imagine being a single mother making minimum wage. That really put things in perspective. After returning I do enjoy working. It's all about work life balance and being grateful for what you have. I would like to be able to stay at home and not work but I'm also grateful for what we are able to accomplish with my income and his (maxxing out 401ks/HSAs, real estate investing, college savings for LO, no car payments).

Remember that you are your future partner are a team. I don't think my husband would have chosen me if my plan was to not work. He's open to me being a SAHM in the future if we have more children so it's not off the table. I'm sure there are men out there okay with this arrangement but as mentioned there could be trade offs (financially controlling, jealous, even abusive).

Be humble and grateful for what you have and structure your time around what brings value to your life. Check out the "strategic reserve time" philosophy. That could help with managing your daily tasks (upkeep, gym, school) with hobbies, dating, etc.

[–]Throwaway2303061 Star 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Who is pressuring you to do it all? Is it you? I suspect people who're naturally driven feel pressure to do it all, but that pressure is often internal.

While I get what you're saying--I have a husband, 3 kids, a job, a dog and a house--I'm not sure your life would that much easier if you played only the role of the woman. It's funny to me that people insist that managing a household and raising multiple kids while keeping yourself fit and attractive and also making time for your husband, your hobbies and a social life is somehow simple and relaxing! (And idea that life was somehow more relaxing for women in the distant past is, in my opinion, a big case of the grass being greener on the other side. More useful and righteous? Maybe. Simple and easy--no.)

Commit yourself to an uneventful life where you excel only in the few things that matter the most to you (say, being a wife and keeping house) and give yourself the freedom to be mediocre in everything else.

[–]HazelMania 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the whole point of feminism, or what it should be at least, is to give you the option to be what you want to be. And if that's being more feminine, focusing on family life, or your house, then that should be okay! I repeat, feminism shouldn't be about making women more manly, it's about giving the women that WANT to be more "manly" the right to be so.

We should embrace all kinds of diversity, including those who prefer classic femininity. So, I say don't give a damn about what today's society expects of you as a modern woman, just be what makes you truly happy for the long-term.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Please don’t misunderstand. I think it’s great that you find computer science interesting. I’ve been in the field for 15 years myself and it can be exciting, not to mention it’s higher paid even if you don’t get a graduate degree.

I just want to say though, a mistake that I made that I’d hate to see somebody else make: when you have a high-paying job and you meet a guy and get married, he may consciously or subconsciously have the expectation that you will continue bringing in a six-figure salary. I do often feel, as a married working mother with a physical disability, that I have to really push the issue to make people see past the resume and paycheck and to the human being.

For example, I just learned that I need major surgery. While I’m very much looking forward to having the issue resolved, because the doctor knows that I do for a living, one of the first questions out of his mouth was how does my job feel about this?

Dude… Who gives a shit how my job feels? My health is more important. I really think that if I worked in a more traditionally feminine field, that question would not have come into play.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I know it has nothing to do with feminism. But I’m saying as women we now are expected to do all the woman things and man things. Yeah I find it interesting too but when I’m spending all my time trying to get good grades I don’t have time to do myself up nicely and explore my interests/hobbies or even have time to be happy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes women are expected to women and men things, as they habe grand for grand bull grand human existence. And men are expected to do men things and "women" things, as they always have. Would you want a husband who only focused on career and ignored the "make yourself look good, have interesting hobbies that make you a well-rounded human being, be able to manage and taking care of a home, have a healthy social life and role in the community, and be a capable father" roles? Nothing you've described is gender specific in terms of expectations, related to feminism, or something that's suddenly expected of women or all that new except having a job (which isn't actually nee, most women have worked for the bulk of humanity's time on earth, its just the 1950s propaganda that says otherwise). It's literally just adulthood.

[–]bsutansaltTRP Founding Fathers 2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I feel so much pressure to do it all. Excel in my field (computer science), be beautiful (makeup, hair, outfit: which I enjoy), have a nice body (lifting: which I enjoy), date and be in a relationship (I want this), have many friends, sleep 8 hours a night, have fun in college, relax, learn things on my own, PLUS have hobbies.

This isn't exclusively a women thing. Guys are under the same pressures for the most part. Try not to get stressed out and if you don't want to work, rest assured in the knowledge you can always kick back if you land yourself a traditionally minded guy who wants to be the "bring home the bacon" type. There's a LOT of men out there who would love for that style of relationship. This is one area women have a distinct advantage over men in that you have the choice to work, assuming you play your cards right.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Ok no I’m sorry but you’re wrong about the first part, I think a lot of people are misunderstanding me. When men have to take 20 minutes to do their makeup every morning, 20 minutes to do their hair, an hour every 3 days to do their nails/skincare, let me know. Not to mention all of those products are hella expensive, as are other upkeep treatments some women get. Making sure you look good all the time as a woman takes time and effort. That’s why a lot of girls in college look bad and get fat, it’s because they just don’t have the time. And that’s what my post is complaining about. I guess i do have the choice to work but as a woman today, the choice to not work is almost never spoken about, and it’s just expected of us to go get a degree

[–]sophiasmom2019 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Ummm this is funny to me because I had to work multiple jobs to pay my way through college and somehow I managed to do all these things. Now I'm married and have children and am currently a stay at home wife and mother and I have less time than EVER to take care of myself. You have very unrealistic expectations for being a stay at home mom. I can't wait to go back to work and claim back some me time. No offense but you sound ridiculously young and neive. You're planning a whole life that revolves around marriage and you haven't even MET someone yet??!!! Girl, you need some serious reality in your life.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That comment was very rude. People have personal issues that aren’t openly shared that make life harder. It’s difficult for me to do the hardest major offered at my university (a difficult university at that), while having very bad adhd and a chronic illness. Yes I’m planning a whole life that revolves around marriage because that’s what I WANT and that’s aligned with MY VALUES. If you have a problem with these values maybe you should get off this subreddit. I can do whatever I WANT in MY LIFE and if that means I want to be a mother of 5-8 kids which is what I want, then I’m going to make it happen. You think I’m young and naive? What part of knowing what I want in life and knowing who I am is young and naive?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree 100%!!! That comment was so rude and ugly. You can be, do, and have whatever you desire. Just place your order with Universe. ASK. BELIEVE. RECEIVE. I'm a firm believer in the Law of Attraction. As a result, I think that you must get definitive about the lifestyle that you want BEFORE you get the guy. Then you need to make sure that your potential husband can give you the lifestyle that you want. If he can't, move on to the next!!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I definitely think it makes sense to decide what kind of lifestyle you want BEFORE you find a husband. Then you need to make sure that your potential husband can provide the lifestyle that you want. Most people fall in love with a person and then try to make them fit their lifestyle. That's backwards and those marriages end in divorce.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because corporations want a larger labor pool to draw from in order to justify a lower market wage rate.

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]treetreetree3737[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It’s true. It’s considered weird nowadays to be a woman who wants to focus on womanly things. Like I think the ideal situation for a woman age 18-24 would be to focus on making herself the best wife candidate as possible, dating, working part time and living with her family, then marrying off. Now we have to support ourselves while finding someone to support us later on, it’s a lot of work. I would LOVE if I was in a traditional marriage where I take care of the kids and do housework and look good, while the husband works and doesn’t do any of the stuff I do. The family work needs to be split not shared. The woman needs to do the woman stuff. When it’s shared we all get overwhelmed. Who’s idea was this to make women work. We all seem to be more satisfied with our traditional roles. This whole society is becoming messed up!

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No feminism

[–]HumanSockPuppetTRP Founder 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So just be a woman. You're under no obligation to "make the sisterhood look good". Live your life how you want.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I literally can’t risk being without money. I crave stability especially financial stability. I need a backup plan, in this day and age with all the divorces I need to play it safe... that means getting a degree. I want my family to have the best life they can have, I might have to work from home...

[–]squishles 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

ehh if your gonna career I at least think computer science is better than most. Getting a 100% work from home job that turns fat stacks of cash stops being just a dream, or requiring cam whoring. I end up being the person that shows people how to do things a lot programming and teaching women is fun. Little weird though, I've seen them google something be looking at the answer and not register what it meant, basically until I read it to them I guess in a deep voice, maybe it's the beard.

I basically get as much leeway as I want in the process if some woman's stuck and I show them things though. Project managers work on stereotypes from 80s movies and call that social skills. So they think she's stupid and I should be anti social, but by god they've found one that clears stories and it saves more than her paycheck on taxes, and I must be some kind of nerd casinova to be able to show them how to do more things without shitting myself or causing a lawsuit. (I get that job a lot)

If you want better news they seem to basically all get married by 25ish. And for some reason the lifestyle lends itself to, I haven't seen one that's "this is a cave troll" ugly. I legit have no idea why, basically as many snacks as you could ever snack and no physical exertion; it sounds like a bad formula on paper. The they all get married is simpler to understand, surround them with 90% men someone's gonna click early.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m not worried about getting married, I’m attractive and I have a lot to offer. The problem is that I’m not personally happy having to balance all these things. I don’t have free time to explore hobbies or personal interests. I get looked down upon if I’m not always working and programming. It’s in my nature to want to focus on my looks and relationships with others and caring for others.

[–]squishles 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea that part sucks. Kind've ties back into project managers basically huff 80s movie stereotypes, where the only way someone can understand how to write how to basic crud apps is to live and breath dreaming in code be the very best pokemon master. And that's simply not the case.

Good news for that too though anywhere over 5 years experience and they kind of stop having any power over you at all. Kind of comes in phases, one day you realize you just got fired and it only meant you just got a week off, 20k raise, and a shorter commute if any. That's not even anything special women get in the field that's just baseline. After that it's just an exercise in dodging weird head game bullshit.

[–]ihopemewingworks 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I feel you, feminism defiently messed it up for all of us, or maybe not everything but some of it of course. But unfortunately that's how life is and I think there won't be any societal changes, at least not soon. Wouldn't that be a dream, everyone just going back and becoming housewives. But imagine that, one candidate suggesting that, hah so many women would be displeased with that. It's a good thing and a bad thing, it creates a freedom for us women being able to have a say about our own money but it's also a bit caging since most of us don't want to work.

Now our society isn't built for feminity, it for sure is built for women to excel if they do it in a masculine way (sort of) but feminity is very much what feels good, men have done decades don't things that dosent feel good because they have to that's a part of masculinity, buckling up and getting on with things because that's life. And that's what women have to do nowdays too and it's hard to go around that unless you find a husband that is willing to provide for you when you're quite young. But you don't have to do something that you don't want to do, or for now you do have to work ofc. But your degree, you could work with something that you find fun, like becoming a baker or makeup artist etc. Now that might not be as much pay so you might have to live with less but that's something you have to evaluate if you think is worth it.

What you could also do is finish the degree and when you aren't studying focus a lot on doing things that isn't stressful and that you enjoy. Then you work part time, because it's a good pay, but maybe do something else that you enjoy on the side, freelance, open up your own thing, sell crafts on etsy whatever it might be. But I used to work with older people in homes now I found that quite pleasant but still the responsibility and newness of it made me a bit angsty but I worked part time and it was slow paced so when I was at work it was quite pleasant. Also working around women is quite good I find, lots of chatting about things that I might care about, there is just more things we would want to do the same.

Then I'd also focus on trying to find a man, who has those values and then you wouldn't have to work. But having a degree is a great "insurance" if for some reason you get seperated.

[–]ALaurenB 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Since it seems you’ve made it clear you want to be a stay at home mom in the future, as a current stay at home mom I will give you this. I feel more like I have to do it all now then when I worked so the grass isn’t always greener. My fiancé works HIS ASS OFF, damn near literally for us to live rather comfortably. So in response I take of the kids (mostly alone) from sun up to sundown, I’m responsible for every meal and bath, picking clothes out for school, almost every diaper change, keeping inventory on who needs new clothes and which items in the house need to be replaced, along with keeping up on my physical health (the gym), my sanity (therapist 1X week) and budgeting our bills monthly. Not to mention, currently planning a wedding and keeping up appearances at social events so my friends don’t think I’m “obsessed with my son” by not coming around. ITS A LOT! I love it but it is a lot.

Balance and prioritizing are what I recommend. I used to have the same fears of financially depending on another person for almost my every need but then I gave in to my spouse. I relaxed and eased into my more feminine self and I trusted who he is and everything that shown me that he will provide —- and he has. That took a huge leap of faith but when you find that ONE you will know and you will find it more freeing to allow him to be the head of household you want.

Another suggestion, look up a book called “You can have it, just not at the same damn time” by Romi N. It helped me a ton!

[–]__TheDon__ 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup, thank feminism for that lmao

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh my gosh is this ever accurate. I don’t want to get my degree!! I want to work on being pretty and humble and quiet and kind and serving to those around me. I want to crochet more and play music more and cook fancy dinners and scrub the bathroom until it’s sparkly. I want to be the best wife my partner could ask for and do everything to make his life easier, and then get a part time job at a pharmacy or something after the kids are in high school.

This is such an amazing post and I appreciate you speaking out on this so much!!!

[–]danyixa 2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’m a cyber security major, and I can get what you’re saying. My advice to you is keep being you, and follow what your heart tells you. You can be techy, and be able to cook up a nice meal. I love dressing femininely, wearing makeup and being creative since those foster my feminity even more.

We may be in a male dominated field, but that doesn’t mean we can’t be feminine. I see so many girls start to lose themselves on the field in hopes of fitting in, but all that does is make them more miserable. I do agree though, the media does often push the narrative that women can have anything, which is true but they’re leaving out women who want a more traditional lifestyle.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m not saying that I can’t be feminine. I’m saying that I don’t have enough time in the day to do everything I need to do if I want to be a good student and remain feminine. I don’t want to fit in in this field. I just realized it’s almost impossible for me to do it all. And I don’t want to do it all. But I have to...

[–]danyixa 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminity is different for everyone. It’s not the same for everyone. What’s considered feminine to one person may be different to someone else! Here are my suggestions, and you don’t necessarily have to do them, this is just what I do

1.) I put more effort in my appearnece, I dress femininely, wear skirts, dresses. I like to wear lots Of different colors. Also, I take time to do makeup, even if it’s not a lot of makeup

2.) skin care, I like using an apricot scrub, it keeps my skin smooth and clear

3.) creativity - I like to express my creative side when I’m not doing tech stuff. For example, drawing, photography, dancing (my side workout I do through YouTube videos!)

4.) my hair - I usually do whatever I’m in the mood for, but I do love to wear extensions, and straighten my hair. I have curly hair so I use different products such as coconut oil or tea tree oil to keep it smooth and shiny!

As for not having enough time, I feel you on that one. Us STEM majors have very busy lives. What I found that worked for me was to set priorities on each assignment, and to set goals on which assignments I wanted to get done for the day. I also chose to do them at a time where once I was done I would have enough free time in the day to do so.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for your response. I would consider myself to be very feminine already. My favorite thing is to do a full face of natural makeup, keep my curly wavy hair looking good, wearing my beautiful dresses, doing my nails, doing my skin treatments, doing my hair treatments, working out, eating well... the problem is I just don’t have the time in college. It takes hours. I want to do it all but I don’t have the time.

[–]catsuramen 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Getting a job isn't for a man. It has nothing to do with making up the lack of income he contributes to the household. It is, however, financially independance for yourself in case the relationship doesn't work out.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s why I am getting an education... I want to get an education. But I don’t have enough time or energy to “do it all”.

[–]JulesB954 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I totally get that women should not have to do it all; it is exhausting. However, you still should finish your degree; because regardless of what we choose, we all need a plan B for our lives. The sad reality is that even if we have a provider husband, we can lose him to either death or abandonment. In those cases, especially living in an individualistic society, we have to have a back-up plan. I wish we didn’t have to worry about such things, but it is what it is.

[–]Shane_The_Stoic 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You only get 1 life.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No need to turn this into a 'who has it worse debate'

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No politics.

[–]LateralThinker13Endorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do I have to do all the other stuff, why do feel the push to get this degree when I don’t even want to work because it doesn’t align with my values.

You DON'T have to do this. You don't have to accept the pressure. You are, ostensibly, a grown adult woman. You can make your own decisions. If you don't want to pursue a career, DON'T. Very few men will reject you because you don't have a career.

[–]SoulRebel99 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm gonna be frank here; its cultural pressure & feminism influencing you. No one is forcing you to compete as both man & woman. You can be feminine & work on being a good wife candidate but that ensures you know the market of men you're looking for (white-collar, blue-collar, artist, etc). Additionally you can go the career route & adapt feminine features where you want. Figure your life out with end in mind. Failing to plan is planning to fail..

[–]asmallsoftvoice 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I feel like women have to do everything and men get to be lazy. Their subreddits are dedicated to hating women and "going their own way" as if women ruin their lives. Women's subreddits are about being better partners, deferring to their judgment, demanding less of them. We have to try SO HARD to be what they want, while also having the same duties to make money. Then at the end of the day we fold the laundry, do the dishes, cook dinner etc etc. We usually do the work of planning vacations, making appointments, keeping everything organized. There's a reason men are more likely to remarry. I would love to say that I want to go on vacation and the other party just takes it from there.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Women's subreddits are about being better partners, deferring to their judgment, demanding less of them.

This subreddit is dedicated to that. If you want a broader perspective, take a look at TwoX and Female Dating Strategy - although I have a hard time deciding which of the two I would recommend less.

[–]asmallsoftvoice 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ya know, I'm single right now and I was recommended this sub when I was in a relationship where we were just butting heads...and a guy recommended it. I've learned a lot, but I think it's very easy to fall into a trap of thinking that if you are a better partner, the rest will follow. There are a lot of men that will take and take and still tell their partner they aren't doing anything. Not everyone. Obviously.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A relationship is not 50/50 it's 100/100

You shouldn't be with a guy who thinks he gets to be lazy. If you aren't contributing in a manner that pleases both of you then why be in the relationship?

And the idea is not necessarily to demand less it's to understand how to go about things so you get the best results. As a for instance - we sometimes talk about giving men space at the end of the day to change gears after work. That doesn't mean that you don't get talk about your day or your needs with him. It means that he'll be in a better frame of mind if he has that hour or whatever to unwind before attending to your wants.

And sometimes women do ruin men's lives, just as sometimes men ruin women's lives. Don't think that the subs geared towards men's frustrations and pain are an example of all men or even representative of more than a point in time in their lives.

[–]KingGorilla 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The nice thing is that men can play the role of the woman and man as well and partnerships can configure roles to their lifestyle. A good husband would support your lifting hobby despite external pressure to be skinny rather than buff. You are beautiful regardless.

[–]treetreetree3737[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand. Actually no, external pressure is for me to have a big butt, small waist, toned body, nice legs; and that’s exactly what lifting gives me. So I lift because of external pressure (and for my own enjoyment). I get more compliments on my body (and my butt especially) from men now, when I lift, than ever before.

[–]TheConsumateCracker 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, stop doing the masculine. Please keep doing the feminine. You are a breath of fresh air this world needs.

[–]danny_welds -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank feminism for that.

[–]mbniceguy 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Replying this late is probably of little importance but makeup is less important to us men in general than you'd think.

A 5 minute approach to applying makeup would be just as good as the 20-30 minutes.

[–]Ill_Gene_1270 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

ill tell you why because im a freaking loser

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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