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Why do young girls not get taught growing up how important youth, looks and relationships are?

May 17, 2018

This is my story of regret:

I didn't know I was born with high SMV and that it would decline with age. I didn't know that families were such crucial things that knit people together in life. I didn't know I'd grow up to want a man so badly it would hurt. I didn't know that all the success in the world wouldn't make me happy deep down.

I'm lucky, because I'm 28 and I still have time. But not much. And I'm kind of angry about how little I was ever told about relationships, SMV, and the less than rosy facts about male and female mating strategies.

What do you guys think of the piece? Does it ring true for you? And how do you think we could change things for the next generation of kids growing up?

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Post Information
Title Why do young girls not get taught growing up how important youth, looks and relationships are?
Author sympathyfor90
Upvotes 133
Comments 75
Date May 17, 2018 3:42 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
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[–][deleted] 62 points63 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well written, and I agree. The few things I would add are:

It's not always mutually exclusive to be an appealing female partner / to be intellectual or successful. Sometimes, those things are at odds, but not always. I have a cousin who is an extremely attractive, desirable and successful guy - he is married to a gorgeous, young, friendly, popular doctor. Talk about getting the deep end of the gene pool. But she is feminine, sweet, soft-spoken, and overall balanced - all while being a doctor and under the age of 30. So it is possible, albeit rare.

Also, the anti-childbearing sentiment... I was so anti-kids my entire life. From the time I was a little girl, I said I didn't want any. Through my previous marriage, I didn't want any. I judged women who had their own. It wasn't until passing 30 and meeting a man I could finally trust as a Captain / see as father material, that I let myself entertain the idea. And turns out, I think something inside of me wanted them all along. I just assumed I'd never progress to a point where I could handle it / find the right man to have kids with.

There's always a lot of hope for change & growth. But I do plan on teaching any kids I have - sons or daughters - the reason why traditional roles are what they are.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh my goodness, Your second paragraph sounds like something I just recently realized myself. I never wanted children until I found the man I'm currently with.

[–]ragnarockette4 Stars44 points45 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It is an uncomfortable truth that people would rather avoid. I mean look at the fat activism movement. People want to change societal beauty standards rather than accept their own responsibility for their weight.

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Every time I see fat positivity activists, I point them to their own speaker who died of a heart attack at 44.

[–]HumanSockPuppetTRP Founder46 points47 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Young girls are not taught about the importance of youth, looks, and relationships because the older women who should be imparting the lesson have none of these things. And rather than admit to themselves that they made a mistake, they would rather rationalize their dumb life choices by passing it on as good advice.

It's similar to the way women unwittingly sabotage their own sons by telling them to treat all girls like princesses. She WANTS to have been treated like a princess, especially now that her looks are gone, so she teaches her son to do so. It's solipsism in action.

[–]chomponthebit17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I’ve actually had to explain to ex-girlfriends/fbs/plates how inappropriate it is to talk about their numerous exes/fbs with potential ltrs because their mothers never told them. Like modern boys, girls have no mentors. I’m beginning to think this somehow serves a governmental/corporate/ideological divide-and-conquer agenda. And I’m not convinced it’s simply “feminists” that concocted it

[–]imdar3ald3al6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah. Women consume 80% of good with some overlap with family based shopping and getting them in the workplace means taxing that half of the population.

[–]polakfury3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why do women do this? Also do a lot of women have high counts these days?

[–]chomponthebit3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

  1. It’s like “tells” in poker. Women tell you their hand before you’ve played (which is often an advantage);
  2. Some, not all. Most gents on RP say AWALT. Truth be told there are many women that don’t lose their v-card till their 20’s (most guys ignore them because they’re not “hotties”8-9/10. Attract one of the ignored girls and you’ll discover magic

[–]SKRedPill13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Or it's that these old bitter women are envious of younger women and would sabotage them at a subconscious level - it is amazing how much of women's behaviour occurs unconsciously.

[–]Guardian_of_Justice 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

It's similar to the way women unwittingly sabotage their own sons by telling them to treat all girls like princesses. She WANTS to have been treated like a princess, especially now that her looks are gone, so she teaches her son to do so. It's solipsism in action.

Fucking dick fuck!!! THIS is what i have in my mothers fucking family. Females unknowingly ruin the manhood of a man and turn him into a beta cuck, who also indirectly causes imbalance in the sexual market, leaving future women even unhappier. Took me 8-11 years to finally find the root of the frustration that i struggled to rationalize

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

All well and good but take this over to TRP. RPW is still a female space not a space for men to complain about women.

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike3 Stars16 points17 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

There is a fundamental logical fallacy that lies at the root of your (and many, many other's) predicament, and it is that your intelligence is "intimidating" to men.

I can understand how this mistaken belief might come about for intelligent women, who are genuinely smarter than nearly all of the men they supposedly intimidate, and due to female social dynamics, you're clearly going to reinforce this belief for each other. Part of this reinforcement process likely involves dismissing the few outliers you encounter, but I will make this point anyway. I am a literal rocket scientist, all of the "Stronk Intimidating Women" I have met have still been less intelligent than I, and I am just as disgusted by the behavior as your average dumbass, and for the exact same reasons.

Simply put, you are fundamentally incapable of "intimidating" an individual that can crush your windpipe in one hand while still browsing Reddit with the other, and that is the dynamic that exists with virtually every man you have ever encountered in your entire life. It is difficult for most women to comprehend the massive disparity in strength that exists between men and women, but if you want to see what it looks like, look up some of the MMA matches with Fallon Fox, the tranny that switched to the women's league. You are not intimidating anyone, you're insulting them.

I briefly tried out the same attitude, back in grade school, when I was well ahead of the rest of the class, and had convinced myself that intellect was all that mattered. A series of ass-beatings quickly corrected that, and showed me the flaw in my logic in a manner too painful to ignore.

As a result, I learned that there were many other forms of virtue in the world, and I would be wise to cultivate them as well. I developed myself as a much more well-rounded person, which led to a good deal of success in my romantic life once I hit my late teens and early 20's.

The farce of intelligent women calling themselves "intimidating" is a shallow attempt to market a deficiency in social graces and interpersonal skills as some strange new species of virtue, which is only able to exist because it's illegal to disprove in the simplest way possible, i.e. a mild beating.

It's a shame really, and I don't have an easy answer for you. The feminists thought they could adopt the beneficial aspects of male existence in an a la carte manner, and avoid the less pleasant regulatory mechanisms of male social dynamics that are necessary to produce healthy, well-adjusted men. They were wrong, and because of their influence you're saddled with existential despair.

You could hit the gym for a while, take some Krav Maga, and then go find Gloria Steinem and knock a few of her teeth out. It might not solve your romantic woes, but it would at least be cathartic.

[–]smirk_addict12 points13 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You nailed it. “Intelligent” women tend to be ball busting, condescending, and seem to enjoy some type of confrontation with men. With other men, if there is some type of challenge or conflict it eventually get settled in some way. Be it verbal or physical. With women that isn’t an option. So men are in this weird place where we don’t really want to engage and for most well adjusted men there is nothing attractive about having a back and forth with a woman we are trying to get to know romantically.

It’s like those women that slap the shit out of a men and think they are tough or whatever because men don’t hit them back. And then one day she meets that headcase that slaps her off her feet and she’s in utter shock that a man hit her back. Some women have no idea the restraint men have for dealing with stuff like that.

[–]19_LadyScarlet_906 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's really too bad that society has told men over & over again "never hit a woman" or "there's no reason to hit a woman". Really? None? I'm a woman, & I'm all for a crazy bitch getting clocked in the face if she's going after a man with the intention of doing physical harm. She's coming after you with a knife, bat, chair, whatever.... I believe you absolutely have the right to defend yourself from something like that.

As an example: my younger brother (I'm the oldest, very protective of my siblings) was living with a group of friends in a rental house after he graduated. One night, his best friend's girlfriend went absolutely APESHIT because she thought her bf ate her last Hostess cupcake. She proceeded to scream, slap, punch, etc. until she got him on the ground, where she then began kicking him. Neither my brother nor his friend did anything, because both have that ingrained notion to never hit a woman. It was later discovered that the damn cupcake was still in the package, she just missed it. She beat her boyfriend over NOTHING. Bitch is lucky I wasn't there; I'd have put her ass through a wall. No one should be allowed to beat anyone like that, & no one should be scared to defend themselves.

[–]smirk_addict0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's funny I found this just now. Exactly this.

[–]YTubeInfoBot1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Jordan Peterson On Crazy Women

237,266 views  👍4,311 👎134

Description: Professor of psychology Dr. Jordan B Peterson is interviewed by Camille Paglia and talks about different levels of discourse and crazy women.Full Leng...

Clash of Ideas, Published on Oct 3, 2017

Beep Boop. I'm a bot! This content was auto-generated to provide Youtube details. | Opt Out | More Info

[–]19_LadyScarlet_900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with him. Us women need to stand up to our crazy sisters.

[–]azurestain0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's so abusive! And assault. And psychotic behavior. Poor guy.

[–]19_LadyScarlet_900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, all of the above! Thankfully they're no longer together.

[–]UmbrellalikeWetness5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting note also on the disparity of strength. I've been going to the gym for about 5 months, so I am a beginner. I don't have a particularly physically demanding job, so no unusual head starts as far as physical strength.

Compared to the women I see there, I am using somewhere between three and five times as much weight as they are. They might have 30 or 40 lb on a machine and I'm doing 180 or 190. And I am not a strong guy at the gym. And, to add to the selection bias, these are the women that are actually training, so the majority of the female population, one assumes, would be even weaker.

I certainly have trouble imagining people that are three to five times stronger than me. I certainly know they exist, but those people are the 1% of males. Proportionately, the average woman to the average male maybe something like the average male to an NFL linebacker. I don't have any numerical data on that, it's just an analogy. But where it is relevant here is that an NFL linebacker, regardless of how smart I am, will never be intimidated by me.

[–]UmbrellalikeWetness2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So correct. What does intimidate me? Another man 4" taller than me with 20 more pounds of muscle. I've rarely ever been in fights but that process of estimating the potential strength of other men is automatic.

A smart woman? No, you don't intimidate me. You know more about some particular topic than I do? Neat. You're actually smarter than me? Cool... but my non-statistially valid anecdotal evidence is those women end up believing that gives them a license to boss everyone around.

[–]blueridge_10251 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is brilliant

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike3 Stars1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

After reading the rest of the comments here and thinking about my initial response a bit, I think I have two optimistic White Pills for you that might help with the side effects of your Red Pill:

-Kicking Gloria Steinem's ass actually might solve your romantic woes in addition to being cathartic. It would certainly make the news, and you'd likely receive thousands of offers of marriage on that basis alone.

-You recognized your mistakes in life late, but not too late. There's still time for you to get those things that you know deep down will make you happy, and you now realize what is involved with achieving your goals. Had you gone on blue-pilled for a few more years, you might have been past the point of no return. If you want to see an example of that particular Christmas Future, take a look at the post history of u/hottosmart.

[–]19_LadyScarlet_900 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I lol'd at the part about crushing the windpipe with one hand while still browsing reddit. My husband is a foot taller than me, 100 lbs heavier than me, & there is no way I'll ever intimidate him, even if I'm smarter than him at some things. If he wants to, he can restrain me with one arm, which is funny when we're playing, until I have to pee lol.

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike3 Stars0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I do the same thing to u/girlwithabike right before I tell her a joke I know she won't find funny.

[–]19_LadyScarlet_900 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol I think my husband finds the squirming funny/cute. He's a poop sometimes, but I love him ♡

[–]mmerijn30 points31 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

From my experience there are a few reasons why parents don't talk about these subjects: 1. They don't think their kids will understand.
2. It feels uncomfortable.
3. They are not consciously aware of this reality (they feel it but they don't think about it).
4. and they don't know when and how to bring up the subject.
These are the only ones I can think up from the top of my head.

[–]organicsunshine10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good parents lead by example. Regardless of society, if you come from a functional family you will want to emulate it.

[–]anothdae7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Parents used to.

Now society has taught them that doing so makes them a bad parent.

[–]polakfury0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

how so?

[–]anothdae0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

do you really not understand?

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean I was taught it since my mom was pretty feminine herself and that branched onto me. She’s been dolling me up for as long as I can remember, she got my earlobes pierced when I was 3, which is now considered abuse today. (It’s not abuse to me) she has always said wearing fine jewelry is very important, always makes me wear real gold, pearls, jewels, nice dresses, etc. She puts a lot of emphasis on looking good.

Also being submissive for a man and taking care of wifely duties. She says don’t argue, listen to the husband (given that he is sensible, responsible, and not a dumb loser), make him food, etc etc. My dad worked as a financial advisor and made decent money, we weren’t rich but we were well-off. He never really talked about that kind of stuff much, it all came from my mom. He wasn’t concerned about me getting a partner, he was more protective, he was ready to bash a guy with a baseball bat LOL!

[–]aussiedollface5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My mother and grandmother were like this too! I think good role models are so important xo

[–]Nessunolosa10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m assertive, have a masculine personality, insist on splitting bills, am rational, ambitious, call a spade a spade and have no time for flattery or beating about the bush. Blunt to a fault. This is not the woman men want.

Ok, you've identified a problem. Use your smart brain to start building new skills that replace the ones you decided you don't like.

Although 28 is late, you don't want to have kids. That particular pressure is therefore off. Life is (probably) long, and you can start changing today.

[–]azurestain0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, make time for flattery, more feminine behavior, etc. sometimes keeping quiet/holding your f*ing tongue makes a huge good impression. It indicates a willingness to listen, even if you don't agree. Everyone likes a soft touch, not an abrasive and affrontive one.

[–]ayvyns21 points22 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This really isn't adding up here.

You're born with a high SMV, and quite intelligent. You've had boyfriends, lovers... and yet not once did a man inspire your femininity?

You're highly astute and perceptive. Receptive to the praise of others. Yet, you've never observed the behavior of men around you, and what they find attractive? You never bothered to take notice of the girlfriends of young men, or the wives of the accomplished?

Because you were probably too busy looking down on them, both men who you thought had settled for less, and women who you thought had nothing going on for them.

You apparently never bothered to self reflect on past failed relationships, and shifted all the blame on your partners. Of course the alphas that excited you didn't put up with your bullshit for long. But they just weren't man enough to handle you, were they?

Give me a break. Being smart isn't a turn off. Being an insufferable bitch, however, is.

This is far more than just a case of "evil feminists" telling you the wrong thing. Sounds much more like pure egotistical delusion and/or extremely poor social awareness.

[–]sympathyfor90[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You're certainly right that I've made mistakes, which is what inspired the post. I fucked up. Didn't know any better. Wished I had.

Buuuut, there are way too many generic assumptions in your response here.

1.) I've only ever had one serious boyfriend, who I loved.

2.) n-count 10

3.) I liked a few of the other 9 enough to want to date them, but NONE of them were Alphas in the sense of being buff, dominant, or game or TRP oriented. Alpha/Beta distinction I think is overemphasised on TRP, many women like combinations of both traits, and other nuanced traits that don't fit squarely into either camp.

4.) Do all men lack interest in relationships with some women because they're "insufferable bitches?" No. Am I am insufferable bitch? No. Do I try to make men feel small and pathetic? No. The more nuanced fact is that by matching them on intellectual fronts (without trying to compete or put them down), and by being sexually assertive, I discombobulate some men (on, I think, a subconscious level). If you asked them in an anonymous survey, where they could be completely honest, I would bet the farm that not a single one of them would say I was annoying, or a bitch in any way.

5.) "You apparently never bothered to self reflect on past failed relationships, and shifted all the blame on your partners. Of course the alphas that excited you didn't put up with your bullshit for long. But they just weren't man enough to handle you, were they?"

Well, I've never dated an Alpha (which is not to say I like weak, sycophantic cucks). But I like smart, sensitive, intellectual types. I've never thought any man wasn't 'man enough to handle me' or accused any man of that (or indeed blamed or resented any man who hasn't wanted me, it's fair enough).

The lesson for me, as I see it, is to de-emphasise intellectualism a bit, keep things a bit more light hearted, and let guys take the lead more with sexual exploration. It never occurred to me that I'd need to because I bought the "a good man should love you just the way you are" codswallop. But, am I a completely inept moron whose dating life has been a joke and a complete waste of time? No, it's been very educational and enriching in many ways. Only now it's time to refine the strategy further instead of turning a blind eye, wishing on a star, and believing that there's no need for strategic play.

[–]wefsix4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I really wish men didn't post on this subreddit. I tend to find them condescending and rarely helpful.

I share many of your traits. But I also focused on relationships, getting married, and babies from a very young age. Despite actively looking for marriage to an older established man so I could be a stay-at-home wife, I didn't find it. I was legit going on dates and looking online at 19 (10 years ago) with this exact goal in mind. The reality is most men who are upper-middle class and live in big cities (my situation) don't get married until their 30s and there is a lot of pressure not to marry a teenager but their "equal". Not only pressure externally, but internally from their own expectations of what a good marriage looks like.

I know it feels really late. But even with all my focus on marriage/kids, I could not seem to get quality men to take me seriously as a mate until around 26. I had my fair share of very religious folks, women haters, and losers who were more than interested, but clearly that wasn't what I was going for.

Also, happily dating great men who don't make good money has been a complete boon to my dating life. I sincerely do not care about their income because mine is more than sufficient. This opens me up to dating men other women are unwilling to date. They're masculine, solid men...they just didn't prioritize making money and women shun them for it. If I hadn't prioritized my career I wouldn't be able to date these men out of purely economical concerns. So, having a good career can work FOR you, it doesn't need to be a loss.

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you see a man who you feel is being inappropriately condescending report it. However, by post history ayvyns is a woman, so be careful not to assume, simply because you disagree with someone, that they are male.

[–]ayvyns2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Much better :)

[–]ManguZa1 Star18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

About your story, it's a good post but i'd not talk about "intimidating women" but about women who don't develop their attractive side and who aren't familly oriented. It's not that men are intimidate it's that they aren't the kind of women they want.

[–]billmoney976 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In general: Part of it is well-meaning not wanting to control or plan a girl’s life for her. Another part is parents don’t necessarily actively teach everything about life comprehensively... most don’t even take parenting classes or take the time to learn the vital goals of childhood development. Yet another part is parents want kids to stay kids, and protect them from reality by lying to them. Finally, in the modern world, women are given infinite choices to have as much sex (see Tinder) and options as they want and that there will “always” be another man to use for dinner, move a couch or for disposable sex... and that relationships are somehow “settling” for less fun, less sex, more responsibilities and less freedom. Ladies have to stay single for the mythical rich white-knight prince to save her and do everything for her... another common mythology. It’s also the Paradox of Choice which causes more dissatisfaction and fewer choices being made... if it were a small town without the internet with few choices, people are happy with what they get. IOW: there’s no one source to blame, only reasons, common beliefs and trends. The problem is once we get thrown out into the real world, we have to unlearn bullshit and teach ourselves successful behaviors and habits through continual personal development.

Other parents don’t have self-respect, aren’t fit or sense to teach kids that looking good/healthy brings you status, respect and more attention.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why? Cui Bono? Well the answer is not pretty. There is a war being waged on the traditional family, and it's been ongoing for decades. The powers that be do not want a majority of women to be homemakers and SAHM's starting in their early 20s. I would guess the reason is the powers that be want as many workers as possible in the work force, as many taxpayers as possible, etc. Women without jobs, who are at home taking care of children all day aren't very good consumers, I presume.

[–]chadislav0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not just more workers, there's also an interest in specifically lowering the birthrates of certain nations so they can be replaced by more easily manipulated peoples. Look up "UN replacement migration", and compare that to what's happening today in France or England

[–]tuyguy11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nailed it. I genuinely feel sorry for young women (and men) who were fed the Disneyland ideal, rather than the truth. Arguably women are more adversely affected since by the time they realise the clock is ticking loudly.

Also I believe that Madonna's should not have a possessive apostrophe since you're using it as a plural.

[–]sympathyfor90[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're absolutely right! Thanks so much for the correction, fixing the apostrophe now.

[–]SKRedPill12 points13 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Look carefully at the kind of people who preach this propaganda - most of them are broken cases. You sure their history and example is even something worth emulating?

[–]sympathyfor90[S] 7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The 'women need men' propaganda, or the 'women don't need men' propaganda?

[–]Guywithgirlwithabike3 Stars1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The "women don't need men" propaganda. If you look at all of the seminal figures in feminist thought from the 60's onward, their lives are all absolute horrorshows of dysfunctional relationships at every level. Observing the outcomes of those individuals that maximized the application of feminist philosophy should tell you all you need to know about its validity.

[–]Kiddingyoself2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I have come to the conclusion that it's worse than that. It's not neglect, but sabotage. Consider just about every influence in society. If it were chance, some would encourage healthy things, and some would encourage neutral, or unhealthy things. In almost every way that matters, we, as a society, are encouraged to do incredibly unhealthy things.

It's not just that young people aren't taught that sex isn't a toy... that they have much less time than they think to have a healthy family, and that marriage, sex, children, family, health, happiness, success, etc., are all interrelated.. It's that just about every influence encourages children to essentially ruin their opportunities before they can possibly learn the consequences, especially considering how unavailable the wisdom is. Delaying any chance of recognition of all this until it's too late. If you can just keep people children until their 30s, it's probably too late for most, and society is in decline.

If you look around, I think you'll find that too many things encourage exactly the opposite of what we should be doing to be chance. I think our society is sabotaged, and sadly, I have no idea if anything can be done to pull out of it.

[–]MissNietzsche 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

that they have much less time than they think

At 19, my father looks down upon me whenever I mention planning my life around a future family. He tells me that I'm much too young to be thinking about any of that stuff and that I have so much time to leave that thinking for later on in life.

Well, my parents married at 38, both of them rushed into it because they ran out of time for their biological clocks, and now they're extremely unhappy, waiting until my younger sisters turn 18 so that they can finally get divorced. Of course, this is not without leaving all 5 of us stricken with mental illnesses due to being raised with parents that loathed each other.

I don't want to get married now, but I should definitely not be patronized if I want to take dating my boyfriend seriously now so that when the time does come to get married, I'm not left like them.

[–]BewareTheOldMan2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's interesting when I hear people state that age 19/early 20s is too young to be married when there are underage teenagers and young adults participating in "adult activities," e.g. adult-oriented relationships and sexual activity (not saying you are, but this is the case with most young people).

I submit if this is the case, there should be no young adult relationships and/or sex until marriage based on this supposed "immaturity." If they're not mature for all this adult activity , then surely they are committing numerous life-changing errors...right?

Bottom line - if young people are engaging these activities, they are ready for's just been ingrained and taught by "society" that young folks are "too young." That...and folks simply don't want to get married. For many young people it's all about having as much "fun" as possible before "settling down."

It's a disingenuous statement and faulty logic.

IF you and your guy are ready, genuinely in love, highly compatible, have shared life-goals and shared life-interests I don't see the problem. The only issue would be if one or both of you have/later have a major shift in life-goals and interests...but that's all part of the detailed vetting process.

Bottom line - your parent's or similar situation doesn't have to be YOUR situation.

[–]Kiddingyoself0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you know you want children, you should know that this requires a family. In other words, a successful marriage. Which requires all the things discussed in this forum, among other things.

When you consider the facts presented by Stefan Molyneux in the video I've shared many times, I don't know how to conclude anything other than that people who know they want children should not have sex until marriage. It's essentially imperative that men marry only virgins, and nearly so for women as well. This means dating isn't fun and games, but a means to find a compatible spouse. This means adolescence isn't spent being an idiot, but making something of yourself. This means have good examples around both the young men & women who wish to have successful families.

Who knows what the best way to go about this is, but I'd be willing to bet if you don't waste time on anything that doesn't further your goal of having a family right now, that you're better off that anyone who waits until their mid 20s.

I agree with you, and not so much your dad. Another thing Molyneux suggests; it takes half the duration of a relation to get over it, and be ready for the next one. Don't waste time.

[–]star_angela3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

25F, living in India.

My mom tells me everyday that I am not married because I don't earn enough, I am not qualified enough (I hold a masters degree btw).

Also, my mom says that if I ever do manage getting a husband in the current situation that would be only out of pure luck.

I honestly do not know which school of thought to believe in!

[–]LateralThinker133 Stars7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

India has a very, very skewed view on dating. Actually, that goes for the whole Asian world. Their values and ideals aren't the same as Western Euro/American ideals. Some are better - education, care for elders, etc., but some are not - socialism, conformity, education-or-you're-worthless, etc.

Each society gets some of the equation right, and some of it wrong. I believe that RP ignores all of that and just looks at the biological imperatives affecting women and encourages them to ignore societal conditioning (in any direction) in order to find fulfillment and happiness.

Oh, and full disclosure: both I and my wife are half-Indian - her by blood, me by adoption.

[–]SKRedPill0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Your mum's toxic. I suppose she had 3 degrees and a 6 figure job which was why your dad married her - I hope that's not her resentment against your dad showing. If that continues, soon you'll be on the older end, too qualified, too career oriented and what not.

[–]star_angela1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Your mum's toxic.

Funny how a total stranger on Internet told me something which my close ones have been telling me for a long time.

Well, my mom is an engineer from an Indian Ivy league technical school. She does earn in ṭop 2%.

My dad married her when she was in 2nd year of engineering. I don't think it was her education for that matter he was interested in. She was the most beautiful woman in her village, think 9/10 beautiful. Light hair, light eyes and light skin, my dad on the other hand is quite average looking. No wonder her daughter is no where near her kind of beauty, plus she chose humanities - u can imagine the resentment.

I find myself lost. I don't know what to believe in. I can go around finding a man in the Indian marriage market (what we call a love match here) where I would say the principles of western world applies. Examples around me of love matches are very much resembling the average western marriage. I am not interested in this option right now because I am on nun mode!

Arrange marriage market - it's weird out there. I have seen really handsome men making good money marrying women who are way below them in terms of beauty but making equivalent amount of money. (Such people get to tell their relatives "oh I married a doctor/engineer")

But ur comment is a serious wake up call for me. I am not gonna believe what my mom has to say for every word.

Edit - 3 rd para!

[–]SKRedPill0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're Indian too huh? Indians marry for many reasons, not all of which is even high value behaviour by a long shot IMHO. Parental expectations are rather high, on a lighter note... -

I have a feeling your mum attaches a lot of pride and value of her worth on her education and career and expects no less from you either. But not everyone's equally endowed. And seriously, not all men look at how many degrees you have and all -- just a generation or two ago most women were homemakers. I know plenty of guys who married women with modest qualifications, but who are affectionate and supportive.

(Such people get to tell their relatives "oh I married a doctor/engineer")

Just curious, is your mom the more dominant and your dad submissive?

[–]star_angela0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just curious, is your mom the more dominant and your dad submissive?

Not at all. Dads been quite an alpha all this life. He held a very high post in the government, and all through my life I have seen the perks bestowed upon us by the government, all thanks to his post. When he married mom, he was already an established engineer and even though he is retired today he still earns more than mom through his consultancy work.

[–]SKRedPill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your mum might be looking out for the kind of group that's more interesting in making money and impressing the neighbours than authenticity. I am also now thinking that the expectations for your future husband must be even greater than what is expected of you.

I see this all the time, people spending their best years thinking this is what will make them attractive when many students in school and colleges fall in love with none of these 'embellishments' - no one, no one ever gets emotionally attracted by seeing a salary slip - money is just for opportunistic purposes.

And average looks? There are literally 1000s of things one can do about that -- to the point where you cannot be recognized anymore, but I digress. Maybe your mum's worried you're not pretty so you need money and education to compensate.

When you do decide to get married (don't wait till your fertility nosedives), you'll find out the only reason you didn't get married was because you weren't really trying.

[–]Tony_Weiss1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Here is my input in this: I wish I’d been taught the reality about what money is and why it’s not bad at all having much, about what men and women call love but none have any idea that their understanding of the same word may be completely opposite, about how women have it all at the beginning but men don’t , yet men have the opportunity to reach for heights women is not capable of, etc. I like women. Professionally wise they are often much better then men. Yet, relationship is uncharted territory for both sexes. And books that do help aren’t many.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

From what I have read most Asian fathers knows this even my father knows this that marrying a woman in her early 20's is ideal. A lot of women will deny this fact even when shows it's true.

[–]Ezaar4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is me right now at 26, about 27. But flip the genders (sorry mods). Unsure about SMV for myself, but understanding components of the mating strategy now makes me feel like I have a lot of learning to catch up on.

You’ve hit a point for my understanding of the women component. It feels like it’s gnawing ever so slowly and difficult to ignore.

Giving the children a break down of the mental aspects associated with gender might be the best way forward. That way, you could arm them with better tools for them to see and explore themselves.

In some way, it was always this process. You do have the added bs of technology that makes everything accessible and easy to reach. But I feel this ease makes the emotions much more potent because it’s something that has yet to be tamed in an effective widespread manner.

It’s be interesting to see if we could all understand a bit about each other’s perspective so that we could move forward as a whole and do some awesome things.

But, this is also a good thing for probably a small number of folks. It depends on what you have as “best interest” while directing appropriately.

[–]aftertheafter-party2 Star2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you love & trust your friends / family, tell them you want to find a husband & ask them if they know anyone. Ask from your best heart (not desperate, not pessimistic).

[–]whitelight3690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is sad we don’t teach this.

[–]flappy_cat 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Have you heard of the wall?

[–]pearlsandstilettosModerator | Pearl[M] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

As a man, you are expected to put more thought and consideration into your posts if you intend to post here. Now I am directing you to the sidebar reading, all of it but particularly the sections about male participation. If you wish to post here, you should also be contributing to the male subs in our network.

[–]Hottosmart 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

This is stupid.

I know several women personally who have accomplished nil in their lives (we're talking minimum wage jobs) but had the good luck of being born beautiful. Yeah, some married very well off accomplished men. On the outside, it looks great. On the inside, it's not that great. Their men financially abuse them. Hold it over their head. Hey, my money, my house! What have you accomplished in life? Oh, nothing? On Facebook, they're all picture perfect. But I know them several years now. Shit slips up here and there. These women are always under the thumb of theirs husbands.

No thanks. Don't rush into marriage and babies. Achieve your goals first.

[–]BewareTheOldMan0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So... the implication is that a woman can't accomplish personal goals while married - at least that's my takeaway.

Also - I see their negative and controlling marriage situation as a vetting issue. It seems they overlooked a lot of negative personality traits and values that are in direct conflict with their best interests.

[–]girlwithabikeEndorsed Contributor3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My very useful economics / math degree was a result of my husband's encouragement and help and finances.

"Don't rush into marriage and babies" is feminist garbage that leaves women freezing eggs and doing IVF at 40.

This poster sounds bitter that some women are attractive. SMH

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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