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Why don't men feel protective towards women anymore

February 8, 2023

I know there are men that want to protect their women but most men these days don't feel that paternal instinct towards women anymore. I see creepy guys cat calling women in public spaces and men that watch this don't do anything to protect the women. There is no concept of a woman's honor anymore. A guy could say something really sexually offensive to a woman in a public place and no man will come to protect her.

I'm not saying women shouldn't defend themselves, we surely should stand up for ourselves. I'm just wondering why men nowadays don't feel protective towards women. I remember about 10 -15 years ago when a woman was harassed in public, at least one guy would come to support her.

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Post Information
Title Why don't men feel protective towards women anymore
Author [deleted]
Upvotes 100
Comments 114
Date February 8, 2023 11:34 PM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit /r/RedPillWomen
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[–]oooKenshiooo 23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why would a man risk getting stabbed or sucker-punched in a streetfight for a random woman he does not know, because the other said something mean/creepy?

Cat calling may suck, but it‘s not a reason to get in a fight over.

[–]zaftig_stig 113 points114 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They’re born with the natural instinct to protect. But a man can only be attacked so many times, and they switch to protecting themselves.

[–]Garfieldress312 21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've seen and heard quite a few women tell well intentioned men to basically back off or mind their own business during this. Had some men say something similar because they were made to feel foolish for jumping in to defend them in the situation.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 150 points151 points  (40 children) | Copy Link

An unintended consequence of equality is that we lose our “card” as the fairer sex. The fight to convince society that women are mentally and intellectually equal to men (and in the woke-left, even physically equal with the constant messaging of women defeating men in sports and hand-to-hand combat in modern Hollywood movies) has convinced many men to stop caring so much to protect women. We are just like them and more, the women said! A lot of men concluded that if so, there’s no need to continue handle women with safety gloves on, if women are just like themselves and don’t need male guardianship or supervision.

Now women are outnumbering and outperforming men in school and colleges. There is a growing trend for gender inclusion in traditionally male-dominated fields. A lot of men are, in many measures, equal to or below many women today. A lot of them question, why should I protect someone who clearly doesn’t need me, and is arguably even doing better than me?

So now, we are expected to carry the emotional and mental strength to deal with the creepy cat callers or other day-to-day dangers that men face everyday like robbery, workplace danger, and potential gender-inclusive military drafts. Chivalry is slowly but surely disappearing. And while there is still a stigma against committing violence against women (rightfully so), there is far less societal drive amongst men to protect the women who insisted that they could protect themselves.

It’s just the way things are now. IMO, all we can do is whatever we can to inspire our OWN men’s protective instinct for US individually. I’m not even saying that GENDER EQUALITY IS BAD or that THINGS SHOULD GO BACK TO THE WAY THEY USED TO BE. There are clearly pros as well: we get to vote, own property, be our own individual people with our own rights. But there are always consequences to the changes we fight for, and this is one of feminism’s monkey’s paws that a lot of normal women who bought into it didn’t see coming.

[–]melissasue22477 19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hats off to you for this explanation! It's perfection and completely true!

[–]Environmental-Bit440 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s the very last part for me “there are always consequences to changes we fight for, and this is one of feminists monkey paws that slot of normal women who bought into it didn’t see coming”

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

We're in a feedback loop - women are becoming more masculine and independent, so men are stepping back, but also, men becoming softer and weaker requires women fill that void in order to feel/be safe. I honestly believe that women only seek out masculine roles when they don't have the reliable protection of a man. Men lose their edge -> feminism goes wild.

Men who only look at one side of the coin (I can't help it! Feminism made me this way!) are just shortsighted and avoiding responsibility imo.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 23 points24 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I agree that it is a feedback loop that is just getting worse and worse. Both women and men are absolutely becoming less of what they used to be.

However, I don’t know why it’s reasonable to expect men to take responsibility for all women as a whole in this day and age. Responsibility for their wives, daughters, families, and (to a lesser extent) friends? Sure. But for women, or as the left likes to call it, people with vaginas, as a whole? I think it is an unfair expectation.

Making people do things out of obligation is a surefire way to make them not do it the second they get a way out. The way to make people do things we want them to do is to make them want to do it themselves. How have women as a whole, in today’s world, made men want to put their lives on the line for them?

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

I'm not talking about what anyone "should" do or what is reasonable to expect. I'm talking about cause and effect. It's a common talking point in RP spaces that women seeking equality has caused men to act a certain way, but it's never considered that perhaps they have the cause and effect backward, or that it is at least a two way street. RP spaces rarely, if ever, wonder if feminism and the desire for independence is actually a rational reaction to male behavior.

In saying that though, the men I like have always been the type to exist and act independently of online gender wars and discourse. My husband is inherently protective of women and acts on it. Avoiding women out of fear or a weird desire to get back at cranky feminists is weak and embarrassing, imo.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Yes, which is why I mentioned in my original comment that I don’t necessarily think going back to the tradcon days the way things used to be is the solution either. Women were dissatisfied enough to try to topple the entire system, and, as Whisper used to say, the men “in charge” were so sex-starved and desperate that they let the women do it, all for the unanswered promise of “full bush free love snatch” (his words, lol). But that still doesn’t answer the question: what incentivizes men to protect women?

I don’t think anything about this discussion is about avoiding women, though. It’s about not risking their lives to protect them, which are two very different things. Think about it this way: it’s great that your husband is heroic, because heroes are sexy to us. But would you in good conscience advise your son to put his neck on the line every time he sees a damsel in distress? Knowing full well that the men who are crazy and sleazy enough to catcall and harass women are generally not good people, and who very desperately need to assert their masculinity by any means necessary? I don’t know about you, but I’d tell mine to worry about his own sake before he runs around taking unnecessary risks for no guaranteed reward.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

But that still doesn’t answer the question: what incentivizes men to protect women?

I think that some men are inherently protective, and don't need an incentive beyond their own drives and character.

But would you in good conscience advise your son to put his neck on the line every time he sees a damsel in distress?

My husband and I would be ashamed if he didn't

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 16 points17 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Lol, I’d rather have an alive son I was ashamed of than a dead one who needed an ego boost for masculinity’s sake, but that’s just me 🤷‍♀️

And to your edit: I think the VAST majority of men have protective instincts for women, but we are not just animals with instincts but humans with critical thinking. A lot of men have thought about it, and decided the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze, at least for strangers who they owe nothing to, and have no responsibility for.

[–]ArkNemesis00Endorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think here's an interesting line between RP and tradcon.

Christianity is rooted around a sacrifice - enduring torture and death so that others can live well. I'm sure Mary wasn't at all happy with Jesus' death, but I doubt she would view it cynically and refer to it as an "ego boost for masculinity's sake".

But another woman could very well see it that way, and some would agree with her.

I sometimes watch movies where some important figure (such as the president) has their family held hostage in exchange for nuclear missile launch codes or something. They always exchange the information that'll kill millions to save their family. I think RP would take this side, saying you owe nothing to those people and everything to your family, to ensure the survival of your own genetic line. I think tradcons would be disappointed.

I'm not sure either one is condemnable, so much as it's a matter of culture. As long as your sons act in congruence with how you would want them to, there would be little conflict in one's own life.

For most of us, it's probably a bit of a gray area. I wouldn't ever want my son to die over a catcall, but I'd be a bit ashamed if my son was one of the bystanders in the rape/murder of Kitty Genovese. I would want them to at least be willing to call the police.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Great points - thanks for the thoughtful discussion! I agree that Christianity does revolve a lot around sacrifice, but I would argue that Christianity, or at least Catholicism, which is what I grew up with, is more rooted in faith and salvation. God sacrificed his son for our sake and for our sins. He does not expect the rest of us to have to sacrifice our lives again on the cross, because Christians have faith that God will protect them, if not here then in heaven, thanks to the sacrifice that Jesus has already made. This is why the entire church “surrenders”/“submits”/follows their Shepherd, because even the apostles, when push came to shove, were still human enough to often be unable to live up to Jesus’ example. Although it is still a good example to strive to, I think reality is much more complex and muddy.

The thing about expecting your son to personally save EVERY damsel in distress he sees is that that is the very definition of a white knight, which we know here in the RP sphere is an undesirable thing to be. White knights’ biggest flaw, even though they might seem well-intentioned, is that their actions are very often rooted in low self-esteem that they attempt to combat by aiding others who may or may not need it. That the only way they, or the toxic parent who raised them, can maintain a high view of themselves is through self-righteous acts of kindness. This not only invites a lot of unnecessary danger, but is also often used as a manipulation tactic with hidden agendas (sex, attraction, attention, validation, and control). I want to raise children not for my own sense of shame and pride, but to create and empower an individual who is capable of deciding what is best for them.

I would agree with you that there is nothing wrong with raising your sons to be willing to do something reasonable to help when they see anyone in danger, like calling the police, or whatever intervention they see fit. But as the person I was talking to has already shown, so many women tie the expectation of their personal rescue from ALL men with their masculinity, and I have a stinking suspicion that women like that would scoff at the idea of a man calling the police instead of confronting the offender himself. I just don’t think that’s fair considering the fact that most women are equally (at best) or much more (at worst) likely to be affected by the bystander effect.

I love your example about the president with the nuclear codes. I think it is very understandable to be disappointed, or even angry, in something like that, but we should also recognize that it is not at all surprising like you have. Our evolutionary drives are what put us here in the first place, and the love and altruism we have for our families greatly overpower the love and altruism that we feel for strangers in ways we cannot explain. I don’t know if we could ever change something so deeply programmed in us. This protective instinct for our families is MUCH deeper than any protective instinct that men feel for women for being women.

Once we accept that this is just how the vast majority of people work and have worked for hundreds of thousands of years, we move on and adjust accordingly. I don’t expect random men to necessarily protect me if I come into danger or threat, so I don’t put myself in situations that are potentially dangerous (to the best of my ability, as there are creeps and crazy people everywhere) unless I’m with my man, or my dad. It’s crazy how much the leers and stares just STOP because I’m walking next to a big man with a mean mug, lol.

[–]ArkNemesis00Endorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Those are some interesting thoughts on Christianity! I do think I agree that salvation and faith are at the forefront of the religion. It could be some food for thought to note that all of the apostles eventually lost their lives because of their faith - save for John, who was tasked to look after Mary like he was her own son. I think this all promotes a worldview where even the ultimate sacrifice is seen positively.

I think your note about the white knights having low esteem might be more on the money than them helping everyone being undesirable - we don't want our firefighters to turn away people for reasons other than the firefighter's personal safety, for example, but many of us would turn up our nose if they then wanted something in return for their bravery. I don't think anyone likes entitlement, even when it's justified.

You're 100% right when you say the goal is an empowered individual who's capable of deciding the best course of action, as well it being a woman's responsibility to avoid danger when she can. I hate so much of the current sentiment around preventing sex crimes - I think we are scapegoating culture instead of teaching individuals how to protect themselves and avoid dangerous situations.

I wonder if it's correct to believe that men, throughout time, have been expected to sacrifice their lives outside of the home, while women have been expected to sacrifice their bodies within it. Perhaps men would tolerate the personal empowerment and rights part of feminism - if it didn't come with the rejection of the role of the wife and the mother. I certainly think men aren't unreasonable to reject the role of protector, especially for strangers, if they believe women aren't playing their roles. It's so, so difficult to behave according to one's standards when one believes others are acting poorly.

I personally have had very pleasant experiences with men wanting to help me, but I'm usually wrangling small children or visibly pregnant when they do. I bet this contributes greatly.

Thanks for listening to me ramble. :)

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol, tell me you’ve never experienced real masculinity without telling me… 🫣

Lol aaaaand now we’ve resorted to shaming tactics. Wow, what a lovely feminine woman! Aren’t you just the type of peach that the men refuse to protect these days?

The reason why I don’t need to rely on strange men to be my unpaid bodyguards is because I already have a man who has chosen to protect me. Why in the world would I need to outsource when I have the best at home?

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]FastLifePineapple[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]  (19 children) | Copy Link

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[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 15 points16 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

If someone is being disturbed, catcalled, etc. then everyone that can should speak out or protect them.

“Should” really just means “I want”. And it’s great that you want that to happen! But it doesn’t really mean anything to just want it - how exactly are you, or anyone for that matter, going to incentivize men as a whole to protect women from being disturbed or catcalled? In the past, men did it because there was a net gain from protecting (but also supervising and chaperoning) women for those men themselves. I am pointing out the fact that a lot of men don’t see that gain anymore, not enough to make the risk of potential violence and harm worth it.

Would you feel compelled to step in and physically protect a man who is getting harassed by another aggressive man? One who is threatening and/or potentially violent? The vast majority of women would not, unless the man being harassed was her boyfriend/husband/family. Because there isn’t enough incentive in it for us that it outweighs the risks of putting ourselves in danger for a random stranger. A lot of men (but not all, as I’m sure there are still everyday heroes everywhere) are feeling this way too nowadays.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If a man is being harassed, I wouldn’t physically step in myself (as that wouldn’t just hurt me, probably hurt everyone else involved too) but I wouldn’t be idle. I’d get help somehow, the cops, other people who can help. If I am in a physically safe space, I’ll yell to interfere. I absolutely would. Doesn’t matter if it is a man. It’s just basic human decency. I don’t need a reason or a gain to be good human being. Not everything is tit for tat. You can do the right thing and even if you end up wrong, you’d still be right doing the right thing.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Again, it’s great if you think things should be a certain way to be right. You can expect people to do everything it takes to meet your bar of “basic human decency” all you want. But many people don’t think that is what defines basic human decency. We are an amoral community for a reason: because “do this thing because it’s the right thing to do” is for the most part an ineffective strategy to get people to actually do what you want them to do. So what happens is you end up sitting there, shaking your fist at men for not being decent human beings, and…nothing else happens. What’s the point of that?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for sharing your input here. I admire your responses.

[–]Underground-anzac-99 -2 points-1 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

I can’t think of any time a man has stood up for me or “protected” me from being cat called even when it first started happening age 12 or 13.

I think as humans we tend to protect our own and don’t step to help others very often in general.

[–]SunshineSundressEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree. I think the “protection days” probably ended around the 70s and 80s, and people have mostly kept to themselves since then - once we stopped feeling the need to constantly chaperone our women on all occasions. It’s entitled, but more importantly unproductive and unsafe for US, to rely on strangers to protect us simply because they’re men.

[–]Underground-anzac-99 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m in Australia snd an old friend just moved back from the US, he told me how happy he is that he can now call out “dickhead” behaviour without fear of being shot.

The world has changed in general and was once safe enough for men to easily perform small acts of protection.

There is an old new clip from the 1970s when women still weren’t allowed into the front public bar section of a pub and men didn’t want them there because they wanted to be able to swear.

[–]Wife_and_MamaEndorsed Contributor 4 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry, but protected from what? Cat calling, by definition, is verbal. It's sleezy and uncomfortable, at worst, or it's something else entirely. I don't need strangers to protect me from words, if my safety isn't being threatened. If my husband was there, sure, I'd expect intervention, but I'm perfectly fine "protecting" myself from tacky men on my own.

[–]Underground-anzac-99 0 points1 point  (6 children) | Copy Link

That’s what I’m saying, I was responding to someone above.

Although frankly it might have been nice for an adult man to step in when others were yelling gross things from cars I didn’t entirely understand at age 12 but hey, learning experience.

[–]Wife_and_MamaEndorsed Contributor -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Oh, yeah, that wasn't in reference to your example, just the topic in general. I apologize.

Yes, a teenager getting these comments is very different from a grown woman. People should definitely speak up in that case. OP's suggestion that strangers should speak up for grown women the same way seems over-the-top to me.

[–]Underground-anzac-99 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I wonder if civic duty has just gone down in general, it’s not actually a female specific thing.

If a grandpa is being mugged does someone step in? If your car breaks down a busy road how long until someone stops?

There was a TV experiment in my country a few years ago that involved a boy, less than ten, rummaging through a bin for food. No one stopped or helped until a group of school girls only 14 or 15 themselves stopped to help and tried to sort something out for him.

Edit: apology accepted

[–]MsSmiley1230 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That’s depressing.

I agree with this. I think that people just don’t feel the same sense of community that they used to and it shows with things like this. There are exceptions but I think we’ve become so isolated from each other.

[–]Underground-anzac-99 -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I just don’t see it as a female specific, anti chivalry thing driven by feminism.

Maybe that has a part to play but it’s a series of vast societal shifts.

Or maybe it’s always been like this, there’s a reason The Good Samaritan is one of the best known of the bible.

[–]Wife_and_MamaEndorsed Contributor 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think those examples describe people who can't really help themselves, unless your grandpa is a retired MMA fighter, so people should absolutely step in. Personally, I live in the south and there's still plenty of what you describe. My husband was too far away from me at a rodeo to see that my double stroller had gotten stuck. I was newly pregnant and couldn't lift it even if I could manage it. Before I could even get his attention, two guys had already lifted the whole thing and carried it over a small ravine while my girls watched.

There's still a lot of chivalry around here, so I think that civic duty varies culturally. I'm sure those same men would say something if someone was dumb enough to cat call an obvious mom with her husband and babies at a rodeo. That doesn't mean I'd expect them to, though. I certainly wouldn't expect someone to intervene Downtown, if a stranger was just being tacky. There's really no danger in cat calling.

[–]Underground-anzac-99 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think if I were in danger people would step in or at the very least immediately call the police.

A few years ago I was outside my house and harassed by a very large man clearly on an even larger amount of drugs (yay meth!) and my neighbour yelled at him and got him to move along, she’s a portly 60 something whose only weapon was the spray nozzle on her garden hose.

I think if I were attacked or hurt in the busy part of the city on a weekend night another man, or ten, would jump in not so much for chivalry as for the perfect excuse for a fight.

But this is just random speculation and the country snd city I live in hasn’t become as pro and anti feminist as many parts of the US.

[–]Kyonkanno 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My inaction makes me an asshole? Well go figure. I am not a sexist you know? I wouldn't dare imply that a woman is incapable of standing up for herself.

[–]FastLifePineapple[M] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Community Rules:

Rule 5: No Feminism

This is an anti-feminist community, and as such, we are not interested in being "saved" by feminism. Anybody stopping in to weight-in with the feminist perspective will be shown the door, as it is off topic.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’d like to understand how this is feminism? Is suggesting people should not be assholes feminism now?

[–]onuf_ 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Big brain time in action right here!

[–]SoumarRu 91 points92 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No, feminists said that women are powerful and don’t need men. So they don’t deserve any help. They are able to defend themselves.

[–]Kyonkanno 59 points60 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not only are women capable of defending themselves. It is actually sexist to help a woman if she doesn't explicitly asks for your help. Feminists got it their way and I am not complaining, more power to you girls!

[–]Vaako81 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Plus we can all vote! A females vote is the same as a males vote. This is what the feminist women wanted for all women last century. And those that didn’t want it then are suffering.

[–]TheBananaEater 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because by protecting you we are labeled as a simp, looked down upon by both genders as smn who lives in the movie world, can get knocked out stabbed shot,the woman might not even appreciate it or care, overall many things unless were dating or friends

[–]youllknowwhenitstime5 Stars 25 points26 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

You folks have got to start explaining your cultural background and current community for these questions to make sense.

[EDIT: Just looked at post history. Case in point. If you're talking about India, the answer might not have much to do with the predominantly Western-viewpoint perspectives being given here.]

"Men aren't protective anymore" just isn't true at all in my experience, and I've lived in the city of Seattle - hardly known for its traditional values. Then again, if what some other posters are saying is true and men just know there's no cultural exchange for their protectiveness any more, my viewpoint might be skewed: The way I'm dressed has always looked very conservative and religious, which people respond to. I could be receiving the cultural exchange I'm putting out, basically - conservatism for conservatism.

On the other hand, men only need to be protective because there are predatory men around. The balance will wax and wane some, I'm sure, but there was never a point in history without predatory men. You might be in a neighborhood with low social trust and a bad imbalance.

[–]soldat21 17 points18 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

This. Men tend to have a caretaker respond to women who, are well, women.

The more feminine you look, the more men will instinctively protect you.

The more feminist you look, the less they’ll care. Defend yourself.

[–]breemakin 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Feminists usually look very feminine?

Did you mean to say masculine?

[–]ArkNemesis00Endorsed Contributor 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I don't think he meant feminine as in female-presenting, but feminine as in long hair, natural makeup, natural hair color, soft clothing colors, modest dress, skirts, blouses, lace, etc.

I think he's right that's not the typical feminist look. It's certainly not the stereotype, and matches the limited experience I have.

[–]breemakin 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It’s very rare that a feminist has blue hair and looks super masculine. I have found, in real life, they usually have long hair and present very feminine.

Look at Emma Watson, Jennifer Lawrence, Scar Jo? Are they not feminine?

[–]ArkNemesis00Endorsed Contributor 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, but as I said, that's not my real life experience. I personally know a few feminists with unnatural hair colors. I very rarely meet people dressed more or as feminine as me. I see a lot of jeans, t-shirts, and sweats.

Katy Perry got a pixie cut when she became more political. Taylor Swift cut her hair much shorter. Every woman you listed also had a pixie cut stage for awhile. They present themselves how they need to for their work, and it changes based on the base they want to appeal to.

One thing you might find interesting is googling "Harley Quinn male gaze vs female gaze". The character is always very clearly a woman, but her style goes from slightly more "feminine" in Suicide Squad to "feminist" in Birds of Prey, particularly her hairstyle.

[–]breemakin 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well in my experience, I’ve actually never met a women who calls herself a feminist with unnaturally coloured hair. The only woman I know who regularly dyes her hair lots of colours is one of those weird youth group teachers.

The only women I know with short hair are roustabouts who present very masculine (but they’re all racist and homophobic and anti feminist lol).

Maybe it’s just culturally different here in Australia.

[–]ArkNemesis00Endorsed Contributor 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, sure seems like it! Interesting. I'm in the southern US.

[–]Helpful-Ad919 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women killed this.

[–]Flat_Shower 35 points36 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Male opinion - I think the whole concept of white knights is impacting this. You have to realize, if I’m going to disagree with another man in public who is already showing signs of being creepy an aggressive, I have to be willing to put my fists behind it. Last week I told a kid whose skateboard almost hit me “hey be careful” and just about ended up in a physical altercation. Will it turn into a fist fight? Probably not, but when men argue, there is an implied threat of violence. If I don’t know the harasser, and I don’t know you, I’m probably not willing to fight for you. Now if he were making physical advances or threatening your safety, I would step in.

[–]moseby75 15 points16 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is great, I tried to explain to my GF that in a lot of male interactions there is an implied ( probably not the best word underlining?) level of violence . Every time you meet a dude for the first time you size them up, and do a threat assessment. Obviously the vast majority of us aren’t looking for a fight but it’s something we are always aware of.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]moseby75 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree with everything you have said with the exception of demanding respect. Respect is earned, not demanded, or given freely. Acta non Verba

That being said I hold the door for everyone M or F, mind you if you don’t give me a head nod, or a quiet TY, I might loudly say YW. This happens far more in TO, then where I live.

[–]Wife_and_MamaEndorsed Contributor 32 points33 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you don't respect yourself, other people won't respect you either. Modern feminism really discourages women from respecting themselves and calls it empowerment.

[–]narudoll 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

i just want to say that, in the places i have personally occupied, i have ALWAYS been grateful for men that have offered or come to my aid. i can think of several times off the top of my head (flat tire, spilled coffee on myself, lost by myself in the city) that men were EXTREMELY helpful to me, without any expectations.

[–]01krazykat 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because there's a mass feminization of men taking place. In addition to that, many men who are raised by single women end up growing up to be more femenine. Not gay, not flamboyant, but femenine in nature such as being passive (and not assertive), being argumentative (and not clear headed and calm), and one of the worst ones.. longing to be the reciever (instead of the provider).

We are living in scary times.

[–]NewbombTurk 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I have read some metrics that contradicts that. The contention is that men, who are raised without their father, don't have a masculine role model. so they model the behavior that are labeled "masculine" in popular culture.

This is where we get the concepts of "disrespect", violence as a solution, etc.

I'm not sure I completely buy into that, but it's a viewpoint that has some decent supporting data.

[–]WishGullible5142 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Check the African American Community statistics will say you are right, or Honduras 50% single mothers 80% 1 name on the birth certificate, lots of male Chauvinis.

[–]moseby75 25 points26 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Long story short, modern feminism killed chivalry.

[–]redditonce29 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

👆This, this right here.

[–]HumanSockPuppetTRP Founder 27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why don't men feel protective towards women anymore

First, a clarification:

Men still feel protective of women. The protective instinct is hard-wired into men. That protective instinct is the whole reason feminism continues to exist, continues to extract resources from men. The whole process of feminism is to complain about something of interest and benefit to women until men do something to provide it, then cast it off as something men should have provided in the first place because of "historical misogyny" - replacing gratitude with indignation.

The protective instinct is still there. So what you're really asking is, why don't men act on those feelings and actually physically protect women anymore?

The reason is because men are punished for doing so.

Men are criticized as sexists whenever they intercede without asking. They are criticized as misogynists whenever they fail to intercede without provocation. It becomes a lose-lose proposition no matter how you slice it. And to top it all off, the women engaging in this ping pong game of entitlement and outrage are acting very unfeminine in the process. Femininity is what inspires and motivates men to act and protect that which is feminine. No man feels inspired to protect a snarling, scowling, unfeminine shrew.

Eliminate the catalysts and rewards for protectiveness, and what you're left with is a whole lot of indifference on the part of men.

[–]VasiliyZaitzevTRP Senior Endorsed 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No man feels inspired to protect a snarling, scowling, unfeminine shrew.

Bill Walton


/Bill Walton

[–]Johhny6969hehe 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The answer is why should we? Women no longer show us at least minimum gratitude. Of course we don't need it, but it would be nice. What's more, the situations shown in social media do not encourage us to help women, because we can suffer from it physically, socially or in terms of image. In addition, our help is contrary to the idea of a modern, strong and independent woman. You women want to reap the rewards of being strong and independent as well as being a victim to be helped. We don't operate like that. The common narrative is that women do not need any help, especially from men (toxic masculinity, oppressive patriarchy), so we have adapted to this and do not give you any help, so much unwanted.I trust that I have answered your question exhaustively, if anything, I invite you to the discussion

[–]TheBunk_TB 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"There is no concept of a woman's honor anymore"

It doesn't pay to do this as a man. Plenty of guys have gotten themselves mangled or killed doing this. Most men know that this puts them on a Simp radar also.

When we had a sense of community, it was worth something. When the collective leaned toward decency, it was worthwhile. But now, no.

This is also close to the "burden of equality" argument. Although I know of plenty of women that don't buy into the "you go girl" stuff, equality comes with a cost.

[–]worldlysentiments 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

God, I could write a whole paper on this. Lol In short, I’d say societal and economic stress have caused this.

[–]CountTheBeesEndorsed Contributor 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on who you are and who you hang around with. Women nowadays also much likelier to take risks - eg travel alone, travel to unsafe neighbourhoods, walk alone at night, etc., and statistically something bad is bound to happen. They're also much less likely to ask for or accept help. I think if you asked a male friend or colleague to walk with you, they would. Prevention is easy but girls don't think to ask or are too proud to ask.

[–]SunriseGobby 13 points14 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

It’s the threat of violence. A man could literally be killed or assaulted for protecting the same way a woman can be for rejecting. That’s why. And there is no reward for protecting a woman I don’t know.

I still stand up for women. But still

[–]Flat_Shower 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’d argue the woman rejecting an advance is in less danger. A man intervening is escalating the situation.

[–]SunriseGobby -1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is impossible to test. But women are fearful and so are men. I think a man is more likely to be killed and women sexually assaulted. That’s the only thing that’s for sure. I don’t like these victim mentality of either gender of like “it’s worse for us.” It’s just different

[–]Flat_Shower 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think you missed my intention a bit. If a gal is getting cat-called, for example (in the OP) and a man were to intervene, this escalates the situation. If it goes further than a cat-call, I have no opinion.

[–]SunriseGobby 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh that’s what you mean. That makes sense. I didn’t miss your point

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’d argue the woman rejecting an advance is in less danger. A man intervening is escalating the situation.

This is true.

Because a woman rejecting is de-escalating the situation. So while the man may feel disappointed, she isn't actually provoking him.

Whereas a man stepping in to check the aggression of another man - is a head on collision of escalation. It's a massive escalation that's highly likely to result in violence.

[–]breemakin -2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m a married woman and I’ve been spat on by a man for stating such when he made advances toward me.

I think the threat of violence towards women is higher than that towards men.

[–]SunriseGobby 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well factually men get physically assaulted and murdered more than women. Women face harassment and sexual assault and domestic abuse more. These are just facts.

If saw him lay hands on a woman or spitting on her. That’s not going to fly. That’s more comparable to violence and I would for sure step in.

But words like harassment are not worth the risk of being killed.

[–]Plastic_Try_3399 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your looking for a white knight. Probably the area you are in.

[–]Altruistic_Tank4627 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why would we? It’s feminism that did this. Y’all are strong independent women that don’t need men? Y’all could protect y’all selves I thought? Anything a man does in todays day in age is either creepy, insecure, or toxically masculine. Y’all wanted this shift. Now obviously I’m not going to let a woman be assaulted or anything if I can help it, that goes for other men, children anybody as well. However, if it’s just sexually suggestive words, ima let you handle that. I have nothing to gain from intervening in such situation.

[–]GmanRaz 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a dude I can help answer your question.

  1. You get burned enough times and you stop caring/getting involved. Men as a whole have been told over and over that most women are independent and don't need a mans help. If we do help we are white knights or misogynists' IE no win situation.
  2. Modern women act very masculine and mouthy and then when their running mouth gets them into trouble they look for traditional treatment. Nope, not gonna happen from any man who has any form of self respect.

To put it bluntly men are naturally protective of women and children. But when women don't behave and act like women anymore and don't treat us like men over a long period of time we curb our instincts because they don't serve us anymore they only hurt us. TLDR: A lot of men dont see women as women anymore. Just problems and drama waiting to happen like a land mine. IE: Poser men.

[–]Some-username9 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The twisted moral compass of modern feminism has severely damaged gender relations. Chivalry, protectiveness, and even basic acts of kindness are labeled as anti-woman. Men doing these perfectly normal and natural things get attacked, and you can only attack someone for so long before they wash their hands of the situation.

[–]Cosima_Fan_Tutte1 Star 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In short, protectiveness and chivalry come at a cost women no longer wish to pay.

However, this is kind of a non- problem, since I don't think women really expect or want to be protected by strange men. In my 40 years, it's never really crossed my mind that any man besides my dad or an LTR/husband would protect me. Is lack of protectiveness from strangers really a problem for most women?

Pro tip: if you want to elicit male sympathy or something resembling friendly protectiveness from strange men, go out with your young children, preferably infants and toddlers (in decent neighborhoods, obviously). It's the only time I've felt strangers (men or women) being protective toward me.

[–]Flat_Shower 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In certain cultures that are alive and well in other countries, men would let another man force himself on a woman in the streets. Men know it’s acceptable, and they are culturally allowed to do as they please to any woman they see. As I said in another comment; while the average man won’t look or act protective, if it actually came down to your physical safety from an unwanted advance, we are programmed to intervene. Not because “chivalry” but because lizard brain “protect the women”

[–]NMFlamez 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For me its risk/reward. Mainly Risk actually. Where I'm from, (very different to where you're from), me as a man intervening will possibly and likely escalation the situation into something physical. First thought is "I'm strong enough to fight him if it comes to that?" If no, then there's your answer.

Even if it's otherwise, the guy could have a weapon. Why potentially risk my life for someone that I don't know? I've seen people hesitant to even protect their loved ones. Compared to that...for a stranger....too much of a risk for some.

[–]penguinsrcoolaf 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So many men been fake mee too'd or are constantly told complimenting a women is sexual harassment. They told their natural masculinity is toxic & dangerous & that women don't need them over & over in the MSM, the education system & films/TV shows. Plus so many criminal's carrying knives or guns now. That being said I still know many men would put themselves in harms way for a women they didn't even know. It seems a particular problem in big cities in the states. That video of a women being SA'd on a train full of people in Chicago ( I think) was horrifying.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]FastLifePineapple[M] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Community Rules:

1: Rule Zero: Stay On Topic

Rule 9: If you are a man and you are here

[–]StinkyPinky94 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's because women today play their cards as being equal in every way and that they 'dont need no man.' That has put alot of men off of being protective over them because those women are acting like men all the time

[–]TomakusDankus 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men have learned its a net negative to stand up for random women,en are called misogynistic just for thinking they can help out a strong independent woman.

[–]WishGullible5142 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe the cut-off point for most is to protect their family, friends, and fellow neighbors but countrywide?

You have to honor and celebrate such behavior, and teach men that it's the right thing to do and that there are potential benefits for doing so.

Not so much nowadays, feminism has made sure of that.

[–]DumbassVampire 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men never protected women. I know it might seemed like that back in the day, but usually because women where seen as property. And ofc men also saw opportunity in it, you save the damsel in distress and get her contacts.

And that women outperform men nowadays isn't something we should blame on ourselves but the men who just don't want to be good. They had years and years of mediocrity & suddenly women join who need to prove themselves and work twice as hard to be recognized and then they feel like their efforts don't matter anymore. (Since some ladies made that point).

There always have been creeps unfortunately. For example "Ladies & children first" only got popular because of the titanic and UK magazine's used it as an argument against feminism, despite the fact that 80% of women & children suffer disproportionately with ship accidents in comparison to men.

[–]vin9889 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think from my POV (20s Male) that if you think you need to protect women then that’s toxic.

I’ve learned not to look at women as a gender but as a person. Judging them on their actions.

So if I don’t know you, I won’t protect you if you get yourself into a fight. If you are being bullied and I can comprehend that in the given moment then I’ll jump in.

If we talk emotionally/verbal, just try to be a nice person to everyone. Don’t give anyone special rights or privileges due to how they look.

Just my POV.

[–]ddeltadt 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think it's just women. But I do find myself absolutely flabbergasted from time to time at how people nonchalantly pass by as some misbehavior is taking place. Whether it's a man harassing a woman on the train, or a larger or more aggressive male harassing an older guy or even a person getting loud and obnoxious with some young retail worker that did nothing to them.... people will stand by and avoid confrontation rather than intervene and put the bully in their place.

It's not a matter of gender, rather I think it's the instinct to protect those weaker than you and perhaps the instinct is there for most people, but they don't act on it. The why I think is less about feminism and more about other social trends.

[–]MsSmiley1230 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is tied to our lack of community. In the past people hardly ever moved so we felt some attachment to our neighborhood and the people in it. Now people are constantly being displaced and we have less interaction with neighbors in general.

[–]cast-away-ramadi06 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I only provide protection and provision for people who submit to my authority. Otherwise, you're responsible for your own protection and provisioning. But submission at any level is no longer an expectation in society so I don't owe anyone protection. If people want to be treated like equals, they need to act like equals.

The crux of your dilemma is rooted in the fact that your principles conflict with the broader society. Societal norms cannot be 'cherry piked' nor intellectually inconsistent. When women are in the infantry, the idea that women need a man they don't know to protect them goes right put the window. At a societal level, it doesn't matter what an individual woman wants. It only matters what societal norms are.

[–]StrawberryEntropy -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

We don't need your protection, we need your partnership and respect.

[–]ArkNemesis00Endorsed Contributor 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Speak for yourself. I absolutely need protection.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]BigOMendozkevich 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Give respect if you want one ows you anything.

[–]brushshstrokes -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Could you cite evidence of this please?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I can't post evidences here. It's just what I see happening everyday on the streets.

[–]Kemalist23 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I see from your post history that you are Indian, so I can give you a more straightforward answer. The reason there is no concept of women's izzat anymore is because of the current culture propagated by Modi and the RSS/BJP. They encourage violence against women, especially minority women to promote their Hindutva agenda. It also doesn't help when film directors like Vivek Agnihotri make rape jokes on twitter. Movies like Arjun Pandit and Kabir Singh don't help either.

[–]brushshstrokes 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh ok

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]AutoModerator[M] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Title: Why don't men feel protective towards women anymore

Full text: I know there are men that want to protect their women but most men these days don't feel that paternal instinct towards women anymore. I see creepy guys cat calling women in public spaces and men that watch this don't do anything to protect the women. There is no concept of a woman's honor anymore. A guy could say something really sexually offensive to a woman in a public place and no man will come to protect her.

I'm not saying women shouldn't defend themselves, we surely should stand up for ourselves. I'm just wondering why men nowadays don't feel protective towards women. I remember about 10 -15 years ago when a woman was harassed in public, at least one guy would come to support her.

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