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Actions and Reactions

December 10, 2013

Back in the early 2000s, while I was still in middle school, I was at a neighbor’s house with some of his friends playing Super Smash Bros. My neighbor was without a doubt the most popular male in our school (super athletic and cool), and his friends were comprised of others from the upper echelon of the social hierarchy. I was decidedly not in the same hierarchy as them, but we hung out from time to time due only to the close proximity in which we lived.

As is to be expected when a bunch of dudes are playing competitive video games, there was a lot of part friendly, part hostile trash talking going on. At one point in the game, I made a joke about one of the more socially dominant guys relying on an overpowered move in the game. I was immediately shunned and embarrassed to the soundtrack of other’s laughter. Not ten minutes later, my ultracool neighbor made the exact same joke. Like clockwork, everyone around him burst out laughing and applauded him for his extremely clever and poignant joke. Same joke, same crowd, different comedians, different response.

I mention all of this because it taught me a valuable lesson early on. Namely, that your choice of words words and actions have almost no impact on the way said words and actions are perceived. It is not what you do, but rather who you are.

I mention this, because I think this is where almost all pickup artist trickery goes wrong. You can say the exact same words, use the exact same kino, and wear the exact same outfit as, say, Mystery, and it will almost always yield a different result.

Those of you who have been around a while should know exactly why this is. It breaks down to social status (which I use to mean the combination of leadership achieved, abilities and skill levels, physical attractiveness, and wealth). Barring extreme behavior, actions and words spoken/performed by socially dominant people will always be better received than those same words and actions when spoken performed by a less socially dominant person.

Still not convinced? Let’s flip the table here. A woman sits down next to you at a bar, flashes a friendly smile, and then asks you a clever question. How do you react? How do you react if she’s a 9/10? How do you react if she’s overweight, unkempt, and wearing a baggy ‘World’s Best Mom’ t-shirt?

So, what’s the moral of the story here? Fuck pick up lines, fuck gimmicks, fuck routines, and fuck looking for shortcuts and easy ways out. The only way to consistently be more attractive to women, impressive to men, and to command more respect from everyone is to improve yourself. Hit the gym, learn and perfect useful skills, succeed/win at things, and make as much wealth as possible. Everything else socially will fall right in line.

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Post Information
Title Actions and Reactions
Author BellatorCordis
Upvotes 89
Comments 36
Date December 10, 2013 3:09 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/actions-and-reactions.8712
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1sju13/actions_and_reactions/

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger38 points39 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

This is the point a lot of dedicated pick-up artists seem to gloss over.

It's not about approaching, sparking attraction, isolating, and building comfort, per se. It's the fact that your ability to do all of these things in a way that seems confident and socially apt (by demonstrating value, looking like you know people at the location, showing up with other girls, looking good and dressing well, etc.) marks you as a special, high value guy. The pick-up technique isn't the magic trick -- it's the fact that these techniques help to generate the perception that you're an attractive, valuable man. (When you're not actually valuable or attractive but fake it with pick-up techniques, this is the thing girls hate about PUAs that makes them feel manipulated and "raped").

If you're actually attractive and valuable, you don't need pick-up artist techniques to simulate attraction and value. You can just be you and talk to people, and when you have interesting things to say in an interesting way, because you're a socially practiced guy with constructive hobbies and an accomplished career, not to mention well-dressed, good-looking, and physically fit, girls are attracted.

[–]BellatorCordis[S] 11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Bingo. I will say that pickup techniques have their place, if not only as a way to communicate how awesome you are after you have become awesome.

[–]_whistler1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This should be an official tagline.

[–]HappyJerk6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you're actually attractive and valuable, you don't need pick-up artist techniques to simulate attraction and value.

That's not true. Women don't know everything about you the moment they meet you, so all they have to go on is your appearance and how you act. If you meet a girl and act like a loser she will just assume you are a loser.

Secondly, being an alpha is partly who you are and partly how you act. Women expect men to make them feel a certain way, and just having certain things is not enough - you have to actively act alpha. You have to take charge, etc...

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fair enough. It's kind of a semantic difference.

Game simulates social aptitude. What to say, how to say it, body language, and various other techniques that a socially proficient guy would execute. Social aptitude is a big demonstrator of value.

If you're an exceedingly confident guy, owing to your happy, hobby-filled life full of shit that's important to you besides women, your physique, your successful career, etc., then that comes out in your body language and your words/demeanor. You don't need to fake social aptitude because it comes naturally when you don't fear judgment or rejection. I guess you're still technically using "game," but it's not really a game any more when it's just how you are.

Game is kind of like training wheels. When you're new to all this and don't know what to say or how to act, some practiced pick-up techniques can get you part of the way there. But the end-goal is to not have to game.

It's a sliding scale, really. A hot, successful, awesome badass of a guy can get away with a few more social slip-ups and "non-alpha" game maneuvers and still score, while the ugliest man on earth with nothing going for him in life at all can execute perfect game and fail at every approach.

[–]narcissus882 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Constructive hobbies, career, even well-dressed, women generally don't give a fuck. That's why hot girls fuck buff 24 yr old personal trainers with no degrees, or charming pussymongering bartenders, emo "indie rock" guys with drug habits.

[–]the99percent10 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's why hot girls fuck buff 24 yr old personal trainers with no degrees, or charming pussymongering bartenders, emo "indie rock" guys with drug habits.

You want to know what they all have in common? Value.

When you have something a girl wants , you instantly become valuable in her eyes. And that also tingles her vag.

Again, it links back to self development. Build value in yourself guys and you will become a magnet.

Also, being rich is awesome. Even if you dont get pussy, it doesnt harm to drive around in a BMW/Benz, wear designer clothes and live a luxury lifestyle.

[–]narcissus881 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No they're not really attracted to valuable things. A very good but nerdy computer programmer is very valuable and might make a lot of money, but he's invisible to women. In many cases, precisely because he has (the wrong kind of) value. My point was you don't need a career, hobbies, etc., or anything like that to attract hot women for sex.

And sure it's good to be rich, but becoming rich is not as easy and not so fun. And if you're working 80hrs/week in your 20's to become rich, which most men who are not rich have to do, you won't have time to fuck many beautiful women.

But I disagree with you that driving BMW, wearing designer clothes are things that being rich is especially good for. The best thing that being rich is good for is not having to work for a living.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This really depends on the girl. Every girl will weight different aspects of your value differently. If your value is heavily derived from a single category, you might be insanely attractive to one woman, and terrible in the eyes of another.

For example, a typical 18-19 year old will fuck a guy based nearly entirely on looks and not really care about his career, hobbies, etc. She's young, naive, and has no idea where she's going in life yet, so she doesn't expect the guys she fucks to know that either.

A 25-27 year old will be put off by a guy who doesn't have a job or anything interesting to talk about. She's been around, probably had enough regular dicks, and wants a guy that's actually fun or interesting to date.

A 35 year old will focus nearly entirely on a man's wealth and status, either because she's more interested in a meal ticket than a cock, or if she's professionally successful herself, she's likely more interested in a guy who's also kind of driven and focused and doesn't want to fuck a hot, jobless, poor loser.

[–]narcissus880 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Right. Seeing how I want sex with pretty young women, I don't really give a fuck what a 35 yr old is looking for in an LTR. But, since you ask, ALL those women will fuck a hot, jobless, poor loser. That's why the wives of rich husbands fuck the hot poolboy, a historical stereotype that's very true. But yes if you're interested in being a 35 yr old's meal ticket and getting into a scam LTR, then by all means signal wealth and career as your primary value.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Different strokes. A lot of 30-something men are annoyed by college girls, and focus more on educated mid-20s (no kids, preferably unmarried) women. Most 25-year-olds with a college degree and a job had their fun years ago and don't want to feel like a slut, so when they go out, they're not as receptive to a good-looking loser for a one-night stand. It's possible, yes, but in most cases, they prefer a guy with a little more to him (with the hope that the sex might turn into a relationship).

There's a cut-off point (that's different for every girl), where nice hair, a pretty face, and being swole isn't as big of a draw, and a point for most guys where ONS's with 18-19-year-olds just kind of gets old.

[–] points points | Copy Link

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[–]BellatorCordis[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had this to say in another comment:

I will say that pickup techniques have their place, if not only as a way to communicate how awesome you are after you have become awesome.

[–] points points | Copy Link

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[–]RedPillScare2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This needs a Lloyd Dobler link for the youngins. Nah. Fuck you. Goole that shit.

[–]Whyver9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

PUA allows you to practice being the dominant guy until you actually get there. Most gym rats I know dont do well with women.

[–]jmikolash2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's crazy when I go to the gym with women. You can tell who isn't getting any, because I draw all these "wtf" looks from guys who are in way better shape than me. The gym only gets you a quarter of the way there, and too many people think that it'll take you all the way.

[–]6482623 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is correct. However, there is an important difference between what happens in a social group where everyone has established some sort of hierarchy, and one where there are more uncertainties.

I think it was stand up comedians who emphasized that it's not what you say, but how you say it as an important point.

In a pick up situation no one knows who you are, it's all based on the immediate actions happening then and there. Often what she has to go on when meeting you is how you act, or how you say it.

But yep, you are completely correct, because it does go back to who you are. You need to be the confident guy who everybody likes.

[–]jmikolash4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When you understand that nobody knows anything about you in new situations, it really gives you a lot of freedom to fuck around.

I would sometimes invent characters with accents and different interests than myself when I went to the bar as a young man. I was so confused at the positive reactions that I would get from men and women. I was completely lying through my teeth, and inventing stories about my "life" out of thin air.

I realize now that pretending actually gave me a strong frame, because I had shifting from being self-conscious and judging myself, to being hidden from view, and judging their gullibility.

I've matured beyond that point now, but I've always remembered the feeling of power I had those nights; to be completely full of shit and free to say whatever I wanted to.

[–]autoNFA2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Game is insufficient, but it still is necessary. I would consider game to be the actions you take to showcase your attractive qualities in the best possible manner, like the lighting in a photo shoot.

[–]the_red_scimitar1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So, what’s the moral of the story here? Fuck pick up lines, fuck gimmicks, fuck routines, and fuck looking for shortcuts and easy ways out. The only way to consistently be more attractive to women, impressive to men, and to command more respect from everyone is to improve yourself.

Couldn't emphasize this enough. Understanding psychological realities (whether these are culturally or biologically driven): necessary for all human interaction. Other than that, you need to have making a better you a constant, never-ending part of your life. And definitely, don't do it just to get laid. If you can't make this about you, it probably won't stick.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

tl;dr become a status object

[–]BellatorCordis[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

tl;dr: You ARE a status object to other people. Do what you will with the information.

[–]FemtoG1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are an object to be used at other people's disposal.

Status, wealth, skill, aesthetics are all things other people can extract from you to make their lives better.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What I have taken from all the PUA resources and lessons (or mainly Strauss's The Game) is that you just need to be comfortable in your own skin, fun, and confident. You can't be comfortable in another's skin.

[–] points points | Copy Link

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[–] points points | Copy Link

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[–]autoNFA2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And acting/comedy skills like Jonah Hill.

[–]andreaswashere0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Even Jonah Hill knows the importance of hitting the gym. Looking a lot more shaped up these days

[–]AlmostRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You mean it's ALL about preselection? You might be on to something, but it's probably "MOSTLY." 90% may even fit.

[–]RPTAW0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


Your status/looks/social proof is worth more than game, but game is still necessary.

[–]narcissus880 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You don't need to have skills, succeed/win at things, or make as much wealth as possible in order to bed a lot of pretty girls. That's redpill, that's game, that's the truth. An alcoholic bartender or indie rock guy with a heroin habit can and often do pull a lot more pussy than guys who are rich, skillful, or winners in some field of industry or whatever.

I'd almost say that looks and gym are a lot more important than the other things mentioned, but even those are not necessities, though they do help a lot. A charming alcoholic bartender of Big Lebowski who's not especially buff or good looking though can coast on charm and get high quality women.

[–]BellatorCordis[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe that game works, but I believe the mechanism by which it works is that it subconsciously indicates to women high social status. The indie rock guy is in a band, and even though he maybe only plays small gigs in local bars, when he's on stage everyone there is looking up to him. Within his context, he's socially dominant (if only over artsy college drunks). The drug addict is reckless and exciting, this instability signals a high likelihood of risky promiscuous sex (usually only with other drug addicts), and men who have a lot of sex are perceived as being socially dominant. Bartenders get to meet a lot of people, especially the regulars their bar. This gives them social proof, and is perceived by women to indicate higher status within the bar. You can see where I'm going.

You might protest that good PUAs can go into a new bar in a new town and still be successful. First, most PUAs prefer a local bar for their outings, as they can get to know the staff and gain social proof. Still, the fact remains that this is only helpful, not necessary. The reason these guys can do well in unfamiliar places (and I would bet that guys who are very good at game but in actuality are poor, have no leadership, skills, wealth, etc, will do better moving from new place to new place as opposed to sticking to a few stand-bys.) is because they can send off the signal that they are very high status, even if they are not. Because no one knows one way or the other, these signals are taken at face value. The most successful of these types of PUA lie a lot. What about? Wealth, leadership status, etc.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I get what you're saying, Its who you are that gets results. Tyler from RSD [i know we said pickup artists gloss over shit but, RSD is really hitting it home, even though they refrain from most redpill things] said in The Blueprint, "The self is always coming through."

Basically, what you see yourself as, around fat women, around hot women, it is always coming through. Me, I see myself as fucking legendary around fatties but, around hotties my flame flickers, unsure of itself. I'm working on that.

Basically how you work on it is, progressive desensitization. You keep going hard, every fucking day. Until you realize fatties or hotties, bitches are bitches. And bitches are all crazy. That's the main point I've taken from all my PUA and TRP studying.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not what you do, it's who you are.

You can't fake it if you don't have it.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So basically, treat all bitches like fat bitches. I recently met a fat girl who was getting too friendly, when she said hi I said, "Hey fatass." She was appalled and said, "Did you just call me fatass?"

I then said, "You're not going deaf are you?"

She then called me an asshole and then left. xD But yeah, I only did that to get rid of her. I wouldn't do that if it was a 9/10 bitch though.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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