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An Illustration of Critical Thinking

March 16, 2022
176 upvotes

FIELD REPORT (Cross-posted text)

I 25M feel very betrayed by my g/f 24F from the way we entered into our relationship and I feel deceived about how she has portrayed herself

I'm not the OP

We met 3 years ago at a party of a mutual friend. Once we were introduced we ended up spending the entire rest of the party just sitting and talking to one another. It really felt like we were the only two people there and as the night ended she told me that she really enjoyed talking to me and asked me for my number. Which was a first for me.

I awoke the next morning to a text from her telling me how much she enjoyed talking with me and wanted to know if I would be interested in getting together to talk some more. I agreed and that next weekend we met at a local book store/coffee house where we proceeded to spend 5 hours talking until the shop kicked us out because they were closing. Not once in either of the conversations did we talk about anything romantic or love or anything like that. It was everything from philosophy to economics to religion and everything in between. Once again she tells me she has had a great time and asks if we can do this again. We set a time for the next weekend and same exact thing happens again. This goes on for 3 more times and I am very confused as to what this is. Are we just friends getting together to talk? Is this going anywhere else? I had no idea.

She sends me a text that week prior to meeting telling me that I am the easiest person she has ever talked to and that she feels totally comfortable and safe being with me.

So finally at the end of the next day when she says she wants to do this again I just said that I was curious as to what she considered these times together as? I asked if we are just friends or was there a possibility of being more?

She said that she really enjoyed our time together and would like to see where it goes. Next time we are together as we are talking I kind of reached out and took her hand and we held hands for the first time for several minutes.

I tell her at the end of this night that next time I would like to do something different with her and took her to the movies. Things went well and during the movie I put my arm around her and she laid her head on my shoulder. As we parted that night I gathered up my courage and leaned in to give her a kiss goodnight. Her response was not what I expected. She actually withdrew from my attempt and I immediately apologized to her and felt like a total heel. She said that I didn't need to apologize but she was just a little shocked as she wasn't expecting it. I quickly apologized again and withdrew for the night embarrassed beyond belief.

She texted me the very next day saying she was sorry about the night before, she really liked me and wants to move that direction in our relationship but she wanted to take things slow. I replied saying that I was willing to go at whatever speed she wanted and again apologized because I felt really bad.

Now mind you while I said I was willing to go at her speed, and I was, but I was really confused by what "taking it slow" meant. We had been seeing each other once a week for hours at a time for over 2 months. But being very inexperienced in the relationship game (only had a g/f in high school and went out on dates in college but mostly as friends and nothing ever lasted) I just thought I would let her take the lead.

We went out 2 more times and then at the beginning of our next date she actually greeted me with kiss. From there our relationship advanced at what I consider a normal pace. A year and a half later we were living together and IMO everything was going great. That is until two weeks ago she had to pick me up at my work because my car was in the shop. She pulled up and was sitting in the car and one of my co-workers who I'm friendly with came out with me as he was leaving at the same time. I introduced them from a distance but clearly within view of each other. They wave hello and we left.

The next day I came back and he said he wanted to make sure there wasn't going to be a problem between the two of us. I asked him why would there be and he said "she didn't say anything to you". I said she did not and he said well it was a couple of years ago so she may not even remember him and then he proceeds to tell me that they matched up on tinder and would "hook up" with each other and it went on for a few months before be started dating his current girl friend. I told him that it might have been a different person and he then proceeds to show me her tinder profile. I've never used the site before so I wasn't sure how to look at anything but he said it does not look like she is active on there now and hasn't been for awhile. But the fact of the matter was that for sure it was her and to make matters worse, I didn't tell him this but the time frame that he was saying was also some of the same time we were together in the beginning. The times I was rebuked for leaning in for a kiss and quit possibly even after this.

He could tell this was bothering me and he apologized but said that I needed to know that they were never "dating" or anything it was just getting together to have sex as though I was supposed to be okay with that. He didn't want to say much else but he said that I should know that he knows for a fact that he wasn't the only one.

Needless to say this all upset me greatly but I didn't know what to do or how to handle this. It was eating away at me and I did something I probably shouldn't have done but we share an outlook calendar and have for over a year so that we can plan our events. While she was gone I looked at her laptop and found her outlook which was nothing more than what we shared. However I noticed she had a separate calendar and it was not password protected. I went back on her calendar, even though I knew it was wrong, and sure as shit there was his first name and yes for fact some of those dates were after we were already past the "getting to know you" stage. But wait, there's more.

Not only was his name there but there were several other guys names. There were weeks where she had a different name on every day of the week and twice had two names on weekend days.

What made me the sickest of all though was looking at the weeks where we were early on in our relationship when I had to basically be afraid to hold her hand that she was meeting with other guys that week and even one time earlier in the day when we met. How do I know this you might ask? My name was on there as well.

Now it does appear that about 5 months after we started dating the names mostly stopped and by a year in there were no more names.

But what really sucks is that one guy's name is on there more than others and this is a guy who she has brought to our house on more than one occasion and introduced us. She has never once told me that they were ever sexual partners. In fact that is what kind of pisses me off about all of this. Frankly if I didn't know any of this I would tell you she was a prude. Sex is very vanilla and I always have to initiate it.

However she just told me not more than a month ago that she feels like I am her soulmate and she loves me with all of her heart.

This is causing me a lot of pain to be honest. I don't think I can live with this. The fact that I had to wait for months to even kiss and hold hands while all along she was getting sex from a variety of people makes me feel like absolute shit. The fact that I honestly was beating myself up after trying for a kiss really pisses me off. Then there is a part of me that says I'm not good enough, sure she may enjoy my personality or whatever but obviously I am not attractive enough for her to want to be with me early on really bothers me.

I mean it would be one thing if she did all of this before we met but there are names marked clearly after we were involved just before we moved in together. Including the guy I work with.

I have yet to confront her. I don't know what I'm going to do or say. There is a very large part of me that just wants out of this. I feel like she is not the person she portrayed herself to be. Oh believe me she is a very judgmental person and has tons of opinions and comes across as holier than thou even though she is not religious per se.

Has anyone else ever had to deal with this?

tl:dr; g/f made me jump through hoops at the beginning of our relationship telling me we had to "take it slow" all the while having tinder dates with multiple guys that lasted nearly a year into our relationship and even to this day is not really sexual with me. I found all of this out from a co-worker who told me they hooked up well into out relationship although he didn't know I existed and he had proof.

After thinking about this a lot I decided that if everything was true I didn't believe I could live with it. From my point of view not only did it change the entire basically first year of our relationship it fundamentally changed who I thought she was. I mean we can all have different ways we react around people but there are some things you can't just be one way one day and one way another day.

But after reading some of the replies to my first post I agreed with a couple of things. 1. Just because the names were there it doesn't necessarily mean she was sleeping with or even dating those guys. As was said my name was in there and we sure as hell weren't having sex during a lot of these times. 2. Leaving without at least giving her a chance to explain things seemed wrong as well.

Which led to the dilemma I faced, how do I tell her I know about all of these names. As a reminder, I snooped. I certainly could just tell her about my co-worker but how would I know about all of the other names.

So I just basically decided to tell her about the co-worker and see what happened from there.

This was the most unpleasant conversation I've ever had. Because on top of everything the g/f I've had has been great, we've never fought or had even a hint of disagreement or betrayal. I love who I thought she was. So I couldn't just bail without at least talking about it.

She acted like she didn't know my co-worker. She acted like she was shocked he would say this and said honestly she didn't remember him. At first I was buying everything she was selling because I wanted to and also because she was very convincing. However I showed her the tinder profile and she started to get a little defensive. She said yes, she had tinder at one time but hasn't been on it for years (which according to my co-worker was true).

So I was going to drop it and just go on but at the last minute I said to her. He told me the dates you went out and how it crossed times with when you and I were together. To which she said he was lying because it ended well before we became a couple.

That's when I knew she was lying. She had told me that she didn't recognize him but when confronted with timeline she now claimed to know him and said timeline was wrong.

When I pointed out her logical flaw to her she became frustrated and started crying. My initial response was to comfort her but midway through doing that I decided that she might very well be doing this to manipulate me and said that while I was there for her I wanted to know the truth and this is where I sort of lied to her. I told her he provided me with in depth timeline and showed me dates on his calendar. She said she honestly did not know when, but she thought it was over before we became a couple.

This is when I made my mistake of asking when did she consider us a couple.

She said she considered us a couple when we moved in together. Let me remind everyone we were seeing each other for almost two years before we moved in together. So I asked her during that time frame if she had dated anyone else. She was emphatic that she didn't date anyone at all. So I know it was crude but I just came out and said ok maybe not date anyone but did you have sex with anyone. She didn't answer me and I knew my answer.

By this time she is crying uncontrollably telling me how much she loved me, how everything was way in the past, etc. etc.

I decided to give her a break before I confronted her because she legitimately was hyperventilating.

Once she calmed down I just said I knew about the guy who she brought to our house as well. This one was obviously a subject she was dreading because she went from crying hysterically to pale as a ghost.

At this point she starts trying to apologize and say's that none of the other guys have ever meant anything to her and that I am the love of her life.

I told her that the only way I would even consider working through this would be for her to come clean 100% right there and then and i kind of let her know that I already know other things and would tell how I know if I have to.

This was the one thing I now regret because she just flat out told me everything, things I never in a million years wanted to know. Including confirming that yes she met with tinder dates twice on days we met later in the evening. She said she did not consider us official and we hadn't even really said what we were doing was dating with those two times. Date wise she is correct from the standpoint that this was before we kissed.

Anyway I told her I needed time to think about it and told her i was going to stay with a friend. She begged me not to go, she very legitimately was upset and said none of this was meant to hurt me. She didn't understand why I was so upset about the stuff from before we met but said she see's why I would be upset about things that happened after we met. I left to stay with a friend but I agreed to keep the line of communications open.

She sent me a very long emotional text the next morning. Explaining how as a teenager she never respected herself and used sex to validate herself and that she had never understood what a real relationship was or what love was until she met me. It was very long and detailed but that was the gist of it.

I responded that I thanked her for her honesty but I laid out how her making me wait and more to the point making me feel like a creep for just trying to reach out and kiss her while she was getting screwed by any number of guys was very hurtful to me and frankly had made me doubt myself as a man and absolutely destroyed any romantic notions I had of our relationship.

She did not respond to my text so I could not decide if she was upset or mad at me. But a half hour later my friend tells me she is at the door and she is very emotional, did I want him to let her see me. I went to the door and she immediately begins crying harder than I've ever seen anyone cry. She couldn't even talk, she kept trying but it made no sense. I got her to sit down and she threw herself at me trying to hug me. After she calmed down a little she finally got out that she was so sorry, she never meant to hurt me. Eventually after quite some time she calmed down enough to talk and she let it be known that what I wrote to her was heartbreaking, she never even considered it that way. She tried to explain that she was so in love with me that she didn't want to mess it up with sex and wanted us to be what she thought we had become. I let her go on but eventually explained to her that while that may be her point of view it certainly was not mine. I just went ahead and explained that it made me feel unattractive and less desirable that guys who supposedly meant nothing to her.

Well I went on for awhile myself but I'll spare you the details.

I just told her that there was no way for me to go back to what we had because I do not view her as the same person anymore. That knowing that she willingly had sex with other people after she had sex with me was just a deal breaker. She jumped in and said that it never happened after we slept together, she said she would freely admit to sleeping with other guys up until we kissed but after that night she new she loved me and cut everything else out.

I have no way of knowing obviously, of course I have no faith in what she said however I do have her calendar and it pretty much does show a rapid slow down right around that time.

I told her I still need time and again she texted that night with a very emotional letter saying, acknowledging my feelings over this and told me that the fact she hurt me makes her feel worse than anything. That she would do anything to make this work. Swore that she has never and will never cheat on me since she fell in love with me.

So I'm still here at my friends house. I still don't know for sure what I'm going to do. I do love her and I can tell she is not faking this at all, she is an emotional wreck. I've called her family to have them go check on her, just told them we were having a rough time and would prefer to not answer anything else at the time.

I again want to stress this because I don't think it came across in my first post. Her personality does not show any of this at all. in fact she is quit judgmental about people who do what she did. She never said she was a virgin btw so let's not go that far. But she absolutely led me to believe she only believed in sex in the confines of a relationship. That is now a confirmed lie.

I'm supposed to meet her Friday, I'm not sure if I will or won't.

Sorry it's not a finalized update but I've gotten quit a few request asking what's going on

I'm sorry for making another post, I was going to tack this on my last one but for some reason my post keep getting locked and I haven't even been able to respond to people on the second one. I have been getting buried in chat request and private messages asking me for an update so instead of answer each one I am just going to post this here and hope it doesn't get deleted.

Thursday later afternoon I met with a friend who knew of her but had never met her. I wanted someone with a complete fresh perspective and outside voice. In other words someone who didn't know her or had formed an opinion of her.

I explained everything that I wrote in the first two posts and just asked his opinion. He said that he wasn't going to give an opinion because he and I were not alike but what he would do is ask me to consider some questions.

Would I have pursued her if I knew she was actively having sex with multiple partners?

Would I have willingly continued the relationship early on if I knew that she was coming on obvious dates with me but having sex with multiple partners?

Knowing now what I didn't know then do I see her as the same person who I dated, fell in love with and moved in together?

Did I see a future with her where I would have an unconditional trusting loving relationship with her?

He had other questions as well but none were more or as important as these.

I don't know why but these questions made it crystal clear what my thoughts were and what I had to do. It doesn't mean it was easy nor did I like it.

On Friday I took the day off of work and two of my friends came with me and while she was at work I packed up everything that was mine from our apartment and moved it to storage. Fortunately I don't own that much and decided that anything we bought together I would leave at the apartment with her. Fortunately we are already out of our lease and were just renting month to month so there is no long term financial issue for me. But I did not want to be unfair so I went to my savings and drew out 6 months of what would have been my part of the rent.

She got home from work at around 5:30 and when she came in she immediately saw my stuff was gone and she dropped her bag on the floor and sat on the couch and started crying.

This was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life and I ended up crying almost as much as she did. I just explained to her that she did not deserve to be with someone who had any doubts about her or had anything but a total positive image of who she is.

I told her that I had to work on myself because in talking with my friend and reading on here I found out that a lot of my ideas around sex and relationships are not in line with today's thinking and I know I have to somehow get past that.

I am certain she will be far better off without me because at the end of the day I just can't be who she needs me to be. Wish I could, wish I could just view it as no big deal but I do.

Anyway I stayed as long as it made sense to try and comfort her but at the end of the day I was not doing it so I left her curled up on the couch in tears.

This certainly did not end how I thought or hoped it would but at the end of the day we both are very young and life is to short. She will easily find a new guy and I am going to work on myself and see if I can't grow from this.

Also before I go I do want to respond to what several people had said about my co-worker who is the one who started all of this. Obviously I will never know his true motivation. He could just be a trouble maker as some have stated and I'll never know. However my belief is that he was afraid she said something and did not want there to be an issue between us at work. By both of their accounts he is the one who cut it off with her to date the girl he is with now. So while it could be jealousy or whatever I kind of doubt it. If he wanted to be with her I think he probably still could have been because he ended whatever their relationship was.

Tl:dr: Friend asked me series of questions that clarified my entire thought process towards this. Ended things on Friday. Both of us are miserable but ultimately this will be better for her in the long run

CONCLUSION

Despite OP’s inexperience; his process of working through his circumstances, especially his emotions; really stands out. He didn’t attack his partner. He was critical of his own reactions. Then proactively sought out help. Special mention to OP’s friend. Those are the piercing questions every man should be asking. Casually not so much, but especially vetting for LTR’s.

It’s always good to remind yourself. Not just that it’s her turn; but to remain critical of it.

Godspeed and good luck!

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Post Information
Title An Illustration of Critical Thinking
Author TheRedPillRipper
Upvotes 176
Comments 51
Date March 16, 2022 5:51 AM UTC (8 months ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/an-illustration-of-critical-thinking.1107335
https://theredarchive.com/post/1107335
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/tfallg/an_illustration_of_critical_thinking/
Comments

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo 60 points61 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

we ended up spending the entire rest of the party just sitting and talking to one another. It really felt like we were the only two people there and as the night ended she told me that she really enjoyed talking to me and asked me for my number. Which was a first for me.

I awoke the next morning to a text from her telling me how much she enjoyed talking with me and wanted to know if I would be interested in getting together to talk some more. I agreed and that next weekend we met at a local book store/coffee house where we proceeded to spend 5 hours talking until the shop kicked us out because they were closing. Not once in either of the conversations did we talk about anything romantic or love or anything like that. It was everything from philosophy to economics to religion and everything in between. Once again she tells me she has had a great time and asks if we can do this again. We set a time for the next weekend and same exact thing happens again. This goes on for 3 more times and I am very confused as to what this is. Are we just friends getting together to talk? Is this going anywhere else? I had no idea.

Fucked from the start. Approached a date like friends , then got surprised she basically saw them as friends. If you do shit like this, don’t escalate or make any moves for literally hours upon hours, you will get put in the beta box.

Simple as.

OP is actually a sexist as real sexism is when you treat women exactly like you treat men; where you don’t see them in a sexual light, see them as an equal and try to have “intellectually stimulating” conversations.

She sends me a text that week prior to meeting telling me that I am the easiest person she has ever talked to and that she feels totally comfortable and safe being with me.

Aka boring beta.

So finally at the end of the next day when she says she wants to do this again I just said that I was curious as to what she considered these times together as? I asked if we are just friends or was there a possibility of being more?

Never ask a woman this. A woman doesn’t even know the answer to this. It’s up to you to lead and establish the dynamic. Whatever dynamic you set at the start is the one she will take. If it’s sexual, it will be that. If it’s mundane talking buddy, it will be that. Asking that question puts you in her frame where you adjusting and playing by her rules, her schedule. Don’t do this.

She said that she really enjoyed our time together and would like to see where it goes. Next time we are together as we are talking I kind of reached out and took her hand and we held hands for the first time for several minutes.

As we parted that night I gathered up my courage and leaned in to give her a kiss goodnight. Her response was not what I expected.

She texted me the very next day saying she was sorry about the night before, she really liked me and wants to move that direction in our relationship but she wanted to take things slow. I replied saying that I was willing to go at whatever speed she wanted and again apologized because I felt really bad.

Escalate this slowly after spending probably by now what amounts to days, and don’t be surprised if she doesn’t put you in the alpha box and wants to move things slowly.

You escalate slowly today = her saying she wants to take things slowly tomorrow.

Again, when a bitch says she wants to take things slowly, she’s trying to make you play by her schedule, her rules.

Either you pretend she didn’t say it and escalate regardless or cut losses and move on.

Now mind you while I said I was willing to go at her speed, and I was, but I was really confused by what "taking it slow" meant. We had been seeing each other once a week for hours at a time for over 2 months. But being very inexperienced in the relationship game (only had a g/f in high school and went out on dates in college but mostly as friends and nothing ever lasted) I just thought I would let her take the lead.

That’s the problem. Inexperience leads to shit like this. Laziness leads to shit like this. You can’t let a woman lead, especially a relationship. You have to be the one leading.

then he proceeds to tell me that they matched up on tinder and would "hook up" with each other and it went on for a few months before be started dating his current girl friend. But the fact of the matter was that for sure it was her and to make matters worse, I didn't tell him this but the time frame that he was saying was also some of the same time we were together in the beginning. The times I was rebuked for leaning in for a kiss and quit possibly even after this.If you aren’t escalating and fucking her, someone else will.

She’s getting fucked by someone, only question is, will it be you or someone else?

Not only was his name there but there were several other guys names. There were weeks where she had a different name on every day of the week and twice had two names on weekend days.See. Told you. Someone was fucking her. Many someones.

But what really sucks is that one guy's name is on there more than others and this is a guy who she has brought to our house on more than one occasion and introduced us. She has never once told me that they were ever sexual partners. In fact that is what kind of pisses me off about all of this. Frankly if I didn't know any of this I would tell you she was a prude.

The price of being inexperienced.

The fact that I had to wait for months to even kiss and hold hands while all along she was getting sex from a variety of people makes me feel like absolute shit. The fact that I honestly was beating myself up after trying for a kiss really pisses me off. Then there is a part of me that says I'm not good enough, sure she may enjoy my personality or whatever but obviously I am not attractive enough for her to want to be with me early on really bothers me.

See. Now homeboy is getting it.

it would be one thing if she did all of this before we met but there are names marked clearly after we were involved just before we moved in together. Including the guy I work with.

Hmm. Now he kinda fucks it by admitting he wouldn’t mind being a beta bucks as long as alpha fucks wasn’t in the picture when he came along, just before.

But after reading some of the replies to my first post I agreed with a couple of things. 1. Just because the names were there it doesn't necessarily mean she was sleeping with or even dating those guys. As was said my name was in there and we sure as hell weren't having sex during a lot of these times

Denial.

Part 1 since Reddit ghey.

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo 41 points42 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

part 2

This was the most unpleasant conversation I've ever had. Because on top of everything the g/f I've had has been great, we've never fought or had even a hint of disagreement or betrayal. I love who I thought she was. So I couldn't just bail without at least talking about it.

OP should have. He knew enough.

She said yes, she had tinder at one time but hasn't been on it for years (which according to my co-worker was true).

Trickle truth. One time actually means having it for 6 months not 2 weeks.

So I was going to drop it and just go on but at the last minute I said to her. He told me the dates you went out and how it crossed times with when you and I were together. To which she said he was lying because it ended well before we became a couple.

That's when I knew she was lying. She had told me that she didn't recognize him but when confronted with timeline she now claimed to know him and said timeline was wrong.Good on him for picking that up. Denial can often blind men.

When I pointed out her logical flaw to her she became frustrated and started crying. My initial response was to comfort her but midway through doing that I decided that she might very well be doing this to manipulate me.

Perhaps there is a red pill future for OP.

I told her he provided me with in depth timeline and showed me dates on his calendar. She said she honestly did not know when, but she thought it was over before we became a couple.

This is when I made my mistake of asking when did she consider us a couple.

She said she considered us a couple when we moved in together. Let me remind everyone we were seeing each other for almost two years before we moved in together. So I asked her during that time frame if she had dated anyone else. She was emphatic that she didn't date anyone at all. So I know it was crude but I just came out and said ok maybe not date anyone but did you have sex with anyone. She didn't answer me and I knew my answer.

Never assume you are in a ltr. It’s up to girl to push and push you some more into it by earning it not you just thinking “well, I guess we are in a ltr now.”

She needs to assume/think she’s in a LTR before she actually is or at least before you think you are.

She needs to be saying she’s dropped all her options or that she thought you guys were exclusive.

I told her that the only way I would even consider working through this would be for her to come clean 100% right there and then and i kind of let her know that I already know other things and would tell how I know if I have to.

This was the one thing I now regret because she just flat out told me everything, things I never in a million years wanted to know. Including confirming that yes she met with tinder dates twice on days we met later in the evening. She said she did not consider us official and we hadn't even really said what we were doing was dating with those two times.

Good on him for setting his foot down.

Between the 2 of you, you have to be the last one to consider yourselves official, not her. Otherwise you get shit line this with huge disparities where the guy thinks its been official for 8 months but it’s actually been 2.

She sent me a very long emotional text the next morning. Explaining how as a teenager she never respected herself and used sex to validate herself and that she had never understood what a real relationship was or what love was until she met me. It was very long and detailed but that was the gist of it.

So she’s a whore.

I responded that I thanked her for her honesty but I laid out how her making me wait and more to the point making me feel like a creep for just trying to reach out and kiss her while she was getting screwed by any number of guys was very hurtful to me and frankly had made me doubt myself as a man and absolutely destroyed any romantic notions I had of our relationship.

The red pill penny drops.

I let her go on but eventually explained to her that while that may be her point of view it certainly was not mine. I just went ahead and explained that it made me feel unattractive and less desirable that guys who supposedly meant nothing to her.Correct. Girl withholding sex is indicative of a lack of attraction.

told her I still need time and again she texted that night with a very emotional letter saying, acknowledging my feelings over this and told me that the fact she hurt me makes her feel worse than anything. That she would do anything to make this work. Swore that she has never and will never cheat on me since she fell in love with me.

Hmm… this just makes me think bitch probably cheated during them being official.

I told her that I had to work on myself because in talking with my friend and reading on here I found out that a lot of my ideas around sex and relationships are not in line with today's thinking and I know I have to somehow get past that.

Somebody link him here

[–]odaklanan_insan 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Somebody link him here

My thoughts exactly. Problem is, I never figured out how to do that.

I agree with the common opinion here that you can't help someone, who doesn't want to (or isn't ready to) be helped. Trust me I ever only told about this to my brother years ago, of which he puked it all back at my face.

But what about when they are ready?

TRP's front face can be intimidating to the newbies even when they are gaining consciousness about some facts and leaning toward improving themselves.

It can also come across as an angry group of incels on the internet for someone with a short attention span who doesn't read stuff through (not judging, I have ADHD. Was like that until learning how to manage it).

I'm not even starting with the shit posts on the main page that pops up every now and then.

What is a subtle way to introduce him to the core RP sources, TRP originals rather than throwing the book at his face?

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo 7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

There is no guarantee of anyone accepting it.

Every time you bring someone into the fold, you risk pushback, rejection or them throwing it right back in your face.

As for your question, I’m not sure.

Rollos first book would be a good start, so too would the sidebar, or the handbook.

Or just get him into the gym first. The gym is the best way to begin someone’s red pill journey outside any red pill theory or literature.

Truth is, there is no one best way to red pill someone.

Sometimes it might take a certain book/pdf, sometimes it might take for a brutal breakup where you catch your then girlfriend cheating on you, sometimes it might just take a few visits to the gym or sometimes all you need is a man willing to change his dating life no matter the cost.

[–]Zeracko 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What handbook? Sorry Im still kinda new here?

[–]Steven818181 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Never ask a woman this. A woman doesn’t even know the answer to this. It’s up to you to lead and establish the dynamic. Whatever dynamic you set at the start is the one she will take. If it’s sexual, it will be that. If it’s mundane talking buddy, it will be that. Asking that question puts you in her frame where you adjusting and playing by her rules, her schedule. Don’t do this.

Lol this sub.

You hate being simps, but have no issue with dating simps.

Maybe it's the age difference (I expect this sub to be in their early 20s) but I doubt it, y'all have a whole sub dedicated on how to lure beta females, do you realize that?

Goddamn how lacking of direction should a gal be to basically wait for you to set it for her? Not saying that it doesn't work, of course it works in many women. I just don't know what you find in such women. They're boring AF.

My first marriage was like that, I was that moron who thought that leading a woman is anything other than entrapping oneself with another moron without initiative for the rest of your life...

That's your second lesson btw. After you follow everything this sub says and end up with a moron: break up with her and fast, find someone else, someone who has a point of existence in your life. Or else your life in her midst would become unlivable before long.

If you just want sex better pay for it, don't date a moron just to get you d* up... can't thing of a fastest way to emotional and psychological problems.

[–]MaamunBrazy 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Stopped reading after beta females. No such thing as alpha or beta females. You're clearly a bloop

[–]Steven818181 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Greek alphabet? Do you know of it?

Beta is the second letter of it. Beta in any social setting is second in the pecking order. Are you aware of that? Of any social order or are you new in the whole thing?

Anyway if you did not read you cannot get back to me. Typical betas, can't outargue you.

[–]MaamunBrazy 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Read sidebar and EC posts, idiot

[–]deephateful 80 points81 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I met a girl like this, i thought she was the one, she was very "vanilla", we dated a few times untill i discovered she had multiple partners at the same time. It destroyed me but i got out of it.

If she is innocent with you, she's nasty with someone else.

[–]estrogenmilk 33 points34 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rules for me but not for thee.

[–]imtherealkai 62 points63 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

While her reactions of crying and such may have been genuine, they only happened because she got caught. If this never happened, I guarantee you she never would have told you any of this and you’d have been in the dark forever.

In the end, you made the best decision and can learn from it all.

[–]catsdontsmile 43 points44 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She isn't crying over him, she's crying over getting caught and losing the comfortable life she had built around Op's BPness which costed her a couple of her good/fertile years

[–]Efficient-Ad2392 37 points38 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women will always pretend to be the victims once they get caught. They cry because they realise they can’t get away with it as they previously did before getting caught.

[–]catsdontsmile 47 points48 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

"I asked if we are just friends or was there a possibility of being more?"

And then I stopped reading.

Edit : The dryer of vaginas. No wonder she was fucking other guys. She settled for your beta traits after ridding the cock carousel. This is textbook material of a BP guy who doesn't know how to handle women and a girl who uses him for security and beta bucks after getting tired of getting so much cock up her holes.

[–]CavAv8tr 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both right and wrong. Your timeline is a little off, but your main point is right.
The kid was afraid to act/ask unapologetically for what he wanted. Not a good trait, and yet, so common.

[–]1hatethis 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Nah bruh the girl was a deceiving cunt from the get go. Man was honest about his intentions and she kept leading him on and playing girlfriend while riding the cc

There’s no way in the world the blame is on him

[–]catsdontsmile 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah bruh the girl was a deceiving cunt from the get go.

She wasn't more of a deceiving cunt than literally any other girl in this time and age. He allowed for this to happen with his behavior. He was not the prize, he was the floormat. If you behave like that every girl will behave like she did.

There’s no way in the world the blame is on him

Okay so he asks if they are just friends, or if there a 'possibility' of being 'more'. Might have as well chopped his own balls off with that phrase. That attitude turns pussies into the Sahara desert. And his whole relationship with this girl screams the same kind of approach. He let himself be dragged by the nose while she was fucking all these guys, showing he was at her beck and call waiting for a small peck on the lips. Finally she decided she had her fill of semen from randos and used him for the stability he offered. I'm honestly surprised he had the balls to dump her.

[–]1hatethis 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol dude what the are you on?

Just because “all girls do it” (which they don’t but the majority of them sure) it doesn’t make it any less wrong or immoral

Sure OP didn’t play it right, she lost interest whatever. Even still that is not a pass for people to be shitty to him he didn’t hurt anyone

Take off you’re rEdPiLl glasses for a second. This is a person being honest about his intentions. And another treating them like a doormat. She’s a bitch. He’s an idiot, that doesn’t mean he deserved any of that

[–]SinCityMayor 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Skip to the tl;dr at the bottom

[–]1hatethis 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They’re all hoes and you should be treating them as such regardless of what your emotional side is telling you

OPs story is not new

There was only one girl ever in my life that was as little of a hoe as possible I suppose and I was considering LTRing but that was about it

Pump and dump, play the field, fuck em and leave ‘em

The emotional toll a story like OPs has on a man can have catastrophic consequences. No hoe is worth it

[–]youngfuture7 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly lol, and from my experience girls like these LIVE for this shit and NO, not all of them are like this, however most are, especially when you’re heavy BP’ed. I used to be like this when I was 18/19. Most girls would just play me along and I’d feel crushed when it wouldn’t have worked out. OP was conscious enough to ask himself questions, which turned me redpill too. We all make mistakes even when we’re redpilled for multiple years, but it feels so fucking good knowing that the emotional toll only lasts a day instead of weeks, months, hell even depressed for multiple years, because the day after that I’ll probably be fucking one of my options which are there to keep you sane in situations like these.

[–]Magneefeeco 16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice illustration!

Some people just have different views of the world. We should accept it and not take it as shocking, because what OP did not do, is established boundaries and expectations and just assumed how GF views the relationship.

[–]RacerxCC 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly tho I would call this post sidebar material. Has almost every principle here of what not to do.

If you can relate at all you got holes in your game. Sometimes easier to see it that way.

Hopefully the dudes balls grew after that experience

[–]th0tmaker 23 points24 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Eh, this is typical modern woman fuckery. They intentionally keep their dating/relationship status vague so that they can have more freedom and control over their options.

Back in my younger days, i also believed that extensively talking/flirting back and forth with a woman and setting up dates meant something... That it implied like a level of increasing interest and seriousness, therefore, if reciprocated, there was a unwritten bout of exclusivity and respect involved for the process and other party involved... But i quickly figured out that wasn't how most women viewed it.

For women, all bets are on until you literally make her your girlfriend... And even then, a lot of women, especially nowadays, view that role and their responsibility within it, differently... You have to follow that up by immediately setting some boundaries... Otherwise you might find your girlfriend still showing off her ass on IG, because she 'didn't know' that was off limits when you're in a relationship... because "it's just pictures!"

You can't assume anything nowadays when it comes to women... They live in a completely different World. They don't see relationships the same way as you and they don't see sex the same way as you. This woman had vain relationships built around sex, and then she wanted something different built around 'real love' and 'sharing feelings' with the dude in the story... Then the dude got mad because he tought the relationship was something else and thought pussy exclusivity was understood while they were in the process of dating because it made sense to him if the women TRULY loved him, then she would be throwning that pussy all over him and him only...

Unless made clear, women are not going to assume any restrictions on themselves if they don't need to...

Anyway, i think this story mostly highlights the differences in perception and belief between men and women when it comes to dating. Women can date and fuck several people at the same time and not see that as detrimental in having a successful serious LTR with someone. Because LTR is built on a 'romantic true love' connection anyway... muh mental/spiritual thing.

Dudes, on the other hand, can't separate sex from a serious relationship. If there's an agreement on FWB or a hook-up... That's one thing and completely different. But when it comes to a serious prospect a man wants to build his life around... How the woman uses her sexuality in that case is VERY important...

[–]catsdontsmile 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Eh, this is typical modern woman fuckery. They intentionally keep their dating/relationship status vague so that they can have more freedom and control over their options.

I had a female friend from highschool, which then in college, would be dating this guy, and then meet up on the same day to give this other rando a handjob. And I was like, so you're cheating on guy A. And she'd insist that it wasn't "cheating" because they didn't have the 'boyfriend/girlfriend' title. They had been dating for fucking months, just never "sat down to have a talk about their status". That's women nowadays. They'll slut up any loopholes they can find and justify it in their head with that bullshit

[–]ThrowawayYAYAY2002 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Had it happen to me whilst I was going through the most stressful period of my life. I wouldn't mind, but she initiated the idea that "we should start seeing each other" whilst doing what she was doing! Me, being the typical man, cut all contact with the women I was fucking. Because, y'know, I'm from that generation where "seeing someone" was a trial run before you became official.

1) Watch what they do, not what they say.

2) Until it is official, always keep two in the kitty (maybe even 5).

[–]SeikoSeaUrchinFan 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Really? I thought it was the other way around. Pretty sure it is. Girls get oneitis

[–]livelovelaughsing 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

As a woman lurking here I’m so confused about who these super promiscuous women are!!! All my female friends, ALL, who are in long term relationships never lived like this.

I think a lot of these red pillers must be attracted to very immature young women. Girls who have a bit of dignity and self esteem don’t behave like this … but they must be too intimidating to approach ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[–]SeikoSeaUrchinFan 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A lot of men end up here because they get burned really really badly in their fist relationships.

When you have low self esteem and don’t have the confidence to approach different women, you end up dating the women who approach you, these are often times borderline personality disordered women who pray on men with low self esteem.

These girls are completely fucked.

This skews the reality somewhat in these forums.

[–]thingsjusthappened 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

First I would like to say that this is pretty relatable to many men on this planet, including my self. Details may differ but the overarching storyline of innocent girlfriend turns out to be this or that happens to many of us. So if it happened to you, don't get down on yourself, this is a prime example that it happens.

Second, props to the OP and his friend for taking things this clearly for what seems to be a first time break up of this scale. I know my first break up for this very same reason did not go or end as cleanly and clearly as this. OP handled himself well (although I was about 5 years younger than OP at the time and a total college dumbass).

Third, I want to say something from a psychological perspective. Physical reactions to this are often times misleading. Not saying that physical crying isn't real. What I am saying is that just because someone cries does not mean that the world inside their mind has changed or broken. A person can be entirely delusional and still cry and ask for forgiveness, etc. Physical pressure yields physical results yet what is in one's mind can never be guaranteed. THIS is why the ending questions are so crucially important. They bring you back to reality and objectivity. What do you know for a FACT and what do you do now based on those facts. It is very easy to get caught up in the maybe's and the what if's. Maybe she changed, maybe she realized she is wrong, or maybe she is a psychopath and this crying is a defense mechanism. You don't know that for a fact, so stick to the facts.

Cheers.

[–]DanielFromCucked 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Every day of the week and two on the weekends lmao I've been with some degenerate sluts but this chick is literally the town whore

[–]YinMaestro 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This one made me want to cry for OP....

[–]psycuhlogist 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As hard as it was, breaking it off was the right choice OP. She withheld sex from you but easily gave it to other guys during the same time, she brought a guy over who she slept with and never told you, she made you believe she liked sex in relationships and it was clearly a lie.

She does deserve someone that has a positive image of her and like you say it’s hard to have that view as a self respecting man after all that. Sorry you went through that but at least now you can take some to heal and learn from the experience.

[–]lieutenantdong 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good (yet long) read.

Highlights how men pursuing romanticism only sets them up for pain, when the fairy tail comes crashing down.

Women want commitment and men want sex. Its amazing both genders fail to grasp this simple dynamic when it goes wrong from their side.

Amazing that the guy offered all commitment without receiving sex. Also a great example of solipsilm, in that women only see what they value, and assumes sex is meaningless.

'I didnt want to ruin a good thing through sex'. What a dumb ass

But even more of a dumbass is the guy for wanting a sexual relationship but doing nothing to pursue this at first. Of course she was getting other tail during that time.

Its amazing how blind both genders can be.

Glad he figured it out eventually but he'll have alot of cringy nights sleeps. Could have avoided it all if he was just selfish and withdrew if he wasnt getting what he wanted.

[–]Banned_On_Facebook 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is one of the best examples of female hypergamy I've seen!

[–]Ivabighairy1 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women love talking and can’t find a man to listen to them. This is why. She won’t get sexual with a good listener, she wants to keep him around. Sex partners are disposable.

[–]1SeasonedRP 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The OP is a pussy. I'm surprised she stuck around at all.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorRStonePT 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I 25M feel very betrayed by my g/f 24F from the way we entered into our relationship and I feel deceived about how she has portrayed herself

All this time spent feeling, more feeling, and again, feeling. You talk, communicate and then talk some more.

All that time, effort and investment, you could have spent it being happy, but instead chose to wallow in your own self inflicted drama filled torture.

And at the end you never once talked about fucking someone else or pushing the shit out of your life that adds no value.

You wanted all of it. You deserve all of it.

[–]mrrooftops 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

She sounds like a narcissist. or maybe a sociopath but her tears seem to lean to the former. Definitely hystrionic. He ripped the mask off her face revealing the hideous truth and she wailed for forgiveness- no doubt to just get control to do it again. I bet she was ripping him to shreds to her close friends throughout and even during the croc tears.

[–]megamorphg 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

yeah typical woman gaslighting herself and other people... the fact that she considers sex not dating put the nail in the coffin of the delusional hypergamous wreck she is

[–]odddkidout 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Once a cheater is always a cheater.

[–]ThrowawayYAYAY2002 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Amen.

I have seen major league Heroin users kick the habit and become clean, and stay clean. I have never seen a cheater become loyal, ever.

That old adage "You can't turn a ho into housewife" is gospel.

[–]Thunderbird93 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women love savages, not softies. OP should have demoted to plate, spun and got his nut for abit then ghosted. Even hearing about the vanilla sex is a dead give away that the other dudes who were smashing her on the side were probably spanking her, aggressively hitting it doggystyle, choking her etc. Even just today I pulled this chicks number at the mall here in South Africa, she was complaining about her FWB to me talking about how she is the one who dominates. Women only cum when a man takes control. Apologizing for a kiss rejection? How is that taking control? Laugh that shit off

[–]Punstatostriatus 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Many girls, especially the ones characterised by openness to experience and poor relationships with parents, are very naive at young age and really use sex as validation tool. Nonetheless with right man they can be very loyal, but there must be some dominance and confidence in man's behaviour.

[–]comu_nacho 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Better I go read Dune dude. Tldr

[–]megamorphg 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

lmao can't believe I actually read it... felt like an engrossing romance novel.

[–]PepinoSF 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Does this wall of text like "War and peace" worth the reading?

[–]TheRedPillRipper[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only one way find out.

Godspeed and good luck!

[–]Angry_runt 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought illustration is supposed to be like a drawing.

Anyway, that's women for you. When they say they're "single" that means they're taking it in all holes from guys whose last names they don't know.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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