~ archived since 2018 ~

Are you good enough?

March 9, 2021

Change how you think women see SMV. They don't perceive SMV the same way guys do.

E.g. For a physique, we'd probably rate this:



6/10 or this

8/10 or this


Now, don't sperg in the comments by saying x isn't natty or y isn't a 6/10. The pictures matter little but the point is we give guys a linear SMV model for their physique. More muscle= more points. Less muscle=fewer points. Fair and meritocratic right?

But what do girls do?

For them its more binary. Is he muscly enough or not?

For her, the 1 and 3/10 are the same. Not enough. And for her, a 6 or a 7 is enough. She doesn't care much about the distinction once you pass her threshold. She doesn't know the difference between a 4 plate squat and a 2 plate squat. She doesn't know about muscle mass and bodyfat and bulking and cutting, she just thinks "hot or not". That 8 and 10 is the same to her even though we are talking about a 30/40 pound difference.

With money, we would probably rate a guy making $100k, $1 million, and $10 million quite differently.

But for her? Not likely, once you pass her threshold ("he's enough"), she cares little about the distinctions among those echelons. You think she's going to leave a guy making $100k for a guy making $150k? You think she's going to leave a guy making $2.5 Million for a guy making $10 million? Unlikely. They aren't concerned about the literal figure but more so how cool/posh is his general lifestyle. The lifestyle differences between those 2 examples is very little.

Is he rich enough or not?

So am I saying you should just aim for being good enough? Just aim for a 2 plate squat and a $100k check and relax? Fuck no, 3 plate squat minimum. You should chase for more, strive for more. That's life.

My point is if you already have a 2 plate bench, and aren't getting girls, the limiting factor isn't your bench or your physique. The answer isn't get a 3 plate bench (although you should still strive for it for yourself). Its very likely something else such as you dressing like a homeless guy or you barely escalating with any girls.

If you already are dressing amazing and getting your haircut every 3 weeks, and aren't getting girls, the limiting factor isn't your haircut or fashion. The answer isn't get your haircut every 2 weeks and buy more clothes. Its more likely you have a DYEL physique.

If you already are mass approaching girls, reading TRP and aren't getting girls, the limiting factor isn't you not having enough knowledge. The answer isn't read more. Its more likely you dress like shit and probably also have a DYEL physique.

So if you ever find yourself struggling with girls, ask yourself, "what right now isn't good enough?" And improve on that first because that will typically be what's holding you back.

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Post Information
Title Are you good enough?
Author Protocol_Apollo
Upvotes 14
Comments 59
Date March 9, 2021 10:19 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/are-you-good-enough.755398
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/m1hy9u/are_you_good_enough/

[–]YouMirinBrahh1 57 points58 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

Rating the physique of the godfather of aesthetics a 8/10...

[–]DareyFathom 17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Relative to the average American man, these ratings are way too low. Based on these standards, anything 7+ requires PEDs too.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Zyzz physique is achievable naturally after a few years.

[–]DareyFathom 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Absolutely not. He's listed at 6'1" and 205-215. His bf% at his bulkiness are entirely impossible naturally.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He wasn’t that big without a pump.He always had a pump in his pictures and videos.

If you workout and diet properly for about 4 years,you can achieve his physique.Big,shredded,natural.Choose two.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Stopped reading at that point.

[–]pappo4ever 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

To be honest the guys at 10 looked better, but after that "6" you need gear. Is basically impossible to get a better than a 6-7 without gear.

[–]guccibans 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

username checks out FUUUAAA

[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy Link


[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link


[–]AreOut 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That is true, however there are like 10-20% of girls who like guys that really stand out. And it's a very easy lay then ;)

[–]Warped_Mindless 55 points56 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Guys on here are obsessed with money and lifting because it’s easier to blame them and tell yourself “just gotta make a little more money, just need to gain a little more muscle” than it is to realize that you are just a boring, uninspiring, person that does nothing for women.

Does looks matter? Yeah to an extent. Does money matter? Not really. Not at long as you have your own place and your life isn’t a mess. I got laid just as easy when I made 30k a year as I do now that I make six figures a year. The only women that really care are the gold diggers.

[–]Defiant_Mess5346 14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Money does not matter at all given that you're not a hobo. Status and a fun lifestyle are what matter and those tend to come with more money, but guys becoming boring workaholics to earn more money defeats the point. Looks matter a lot though, game is just a supplement to them. Game allows you to sleep with chicks that are already attracted to you. Having status and a fun lifestyle draws more chicks into your world. Social freedom gives you the ability to talk to more chicks and find the ones that are attracted to you. But looks are the foundation for everything. But you're on the money in regard to wealth not affecting the ability to pull chicks. Even Roosh said he knew tons of guys making bank that didn't get laid. In the end it boils down to having above average looks + social freedom (ability to talk to chicks).

[–]Warped_Mindless 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Spot on.

That said, it’s pretty simple (for most guys) to make themselves above average looking. Low body fat, hit the gym and have some visible muscles, stand straight, fix your teeth and acne, and dress well.

Takes effort but it’s not rocket science.

[–]LePetitPhagette 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Looks are the opener. Money does matter, everything else being equal. She's likelier to put out in a penthouse apartment than a basement apartment. She's likelier to put out if you bring her home in a Porsche instead of a Camry.

[–]pappo4ever 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

than it is to realize that you are just a boring, uninspiring, person that does nothing for women.

Really? ask any shredded millionaire if they have problems because women consider them boring and uninspiring.

[–]Warped_Mindless 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Shredded millionaires are unlikely to be boring and uninspiring. But hey, if you have to resort to ridiculous examples then I believe I made my point.

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeh. I’m not advocating for money to be used as a way to pick up women.

It’s just to show my point of being enough or not as lifting/money are quantifiable but game/frame isn’t.

[–]Substantial_Buy_9275 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

your face can also be ugly, as well as the personality, interestingness etc none of which was mentioned by OP

[–]lmann81733 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Body composition makes a massive difference, gain 10 lbs of fat and let me know how being “exciting and inspiring” works out for you,

[–]1oooKenshiooo 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

While you are correct in applying the law of diminishing returns to the sexual market place, you rating system is waaay off and by that you are feeding the rampant inferiority complexes around this place.

So let's get this straight. Physical attractiveness is shaped like a bell curve. The is no point in dividing what is "achievable" into 10 sections, because attractiveness is always relative.

Therefore, you need to divide the PEOPLE into 10 different sections. Anything above an 8 would be the top 20% of PEOPLE - not the elite of the elite as you linked them.

Guy 1 is below average, so he is probably a 3. But he is not a 1 because he is not the polar opposite of a genetically gifted underwear model.Guy 3 has a totally average physique for a young guy. He is probably a 5.5 bodywise. Guys like that can get lots on lots of girls, if other factors (game, charisma, clothing, lifestyle) are on point. His body will not hinder him, but it will not benefit him either.

Anything above a 6 is obviously above average. First Guy 6 is probably a 6 in the before picture and an 8.5 in the after picture, because in the second one he is vastly above average. The second 6-guy is a better example. He was a 4 on the before (his body actively hindering his chances with women) and a 7.5 in the after - with his body actively boosting his chances.

Anything above an 8.5 is someone who can make a woman fuck him with his body being the ONLY thing going for him. First 8 guy being a good example - though he is probably more a 9.5. Second 8 guy is a perfectly fine example of an 8, even 9, depending on his height.

All the 10 guys are probably scattered between 8.5 and 10, depending on personal taste. At that point it become pointless to argue.


As for the money - having 10 MIL as opposed to 2.5 million is about the same difference as making 10k a month vs 2k a month - albeit magnified by several dimensions.

What o I mean by that? Once you start making a lot more than 2k a month, you starts becoming noticably better, because you transcend the cost of living. You have more disposable income.

Same goes for someone who has 10 mil vs someone who has 2 mil. Those guys don't have their money in the bank - they have it invested in assets. Each of them only has so much liquidity at any given time.

And the 10 mil guy is probably going to have more of that. This might be the difference between her having her own car - or her having her own SPORTS CAR.

[–]1scissor_me_timbers00 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think your rating system is off man. Your 10s are freakish looking, they’re beyond aesthetics. Your 8’s are more like peak aesthetics, hence 10’s. And your 6’s are like 8’s

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The thing is you and I at least have one.

We can debate who’s is better or more realistic but we still have one.

Girls don’t.

It’s are you muscly or not.

[–]maxi-mil 5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I just found out I am a 1/10. 😅

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Then you found the right place to improve.

The first step to solving a problem is admitting there is one.

Get off r MGTOW and get to a gym bro. Read my last 2 posts, they have some diet/training supplement advice (it’s not complete but it’s a start). Sidebar+ searching in the main sub for further training/diet info will help.

Might release a cardio guide in the near time as well now.

[–]alikebabay 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So how long does it take to reach 3 plate squat? It took me three years and I am barely at 90 kg one rep.

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Stop training like shit.

Get on a structured beginners programme. 5x5, nSuns, fierce 5, alpha destiny’s novice program etc. I like fierce 5/alpha destiny’s but they are all very similar. Make sure you hit each body part twice a week if you can.

What you need is to progressively overload. Every time you walk in the gym, you have to make sure you make some progress with each movement if you can. Either you increase the weight (by 1.25kg plates on each side), increase the reps or increase the sets.

So if on Monday you squat 60kg 5 reps 3 sets, on Wednesday try to squat 62.5kg 5 reps by 3 sets. If that’s too hard, try 62.5kg 5 reps, 4 reps, 4 reps then next time 62.5kg 5 reps x 3 sets.

Or if you can’t do that, try 60kg 6 reps x 3 sets and then on Friday or Saturday try 62.5kg 5 reps x 3. This time you’ll make it.

The goal is you have to overload your muscles to make progress. You have to make them work more than last time.

Brush up on form as well. Look up how to squat on yt by Brian alsruhe and make sure your recovery is good (sleep + eating enough protein).

[–]Zeeblackbaron 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think your ratings for body physique are a bit low. Everything below 8/10 I would shift up by 2 points. The 8-/10 is more like a 9.5/10. A 1/10 is a literal lardball of a male much fatter than the guy in the image.

As for money, a guy making $1 million and $10 million a year aren’t really going to be seen any differently by 99% of women. Guys making millions of dollars a year are less than 1% of the population. Any woman who wants these guys is going to have a very rough time finding them because they’re looking for a needle in a haystack. Your lifestyle gains pretty much start diminishing at $250k.

Some of you guys badly need a reality check as to what the world really looks like you’re capable of realistically achieving in life. The point is to self improve without blowing your brains out or becoming delusional about the composition of the world around you. Read this

[–]214365870901 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably a 5/10. I’m really skinny, but not really muscular

[–]Endorsed ContributorForeverKarlMalone 1 point2 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

This is brilliant work. Girls notice your flaws a lot more than your highlights.

Any effort spent fixing mistakes pays far more dividends than going all out and further optimizing a good trait you already have in spite of diminishing returns.

Your one weakness is so glaring to them whether it’s physique or social skills or money that it’s worth spending effort to fix that instead of trying to max out on what you’re already good at

No idea why this isn’t upvoted more

This deserves a +1


Lots of quality posts here recently but for some reason this one didn’t get as popular as the others

[–]DareyFathom 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

It's not receiving a lot of attention because it's self evidently not true. Being well rounded is certainly optimal, but being exceptional in one thing is more than enough to pull women as proven many times over. You can find countless examples of a man in the top 1% of status/wealth/personality/appearance that have little else to contribute still do great with women. The problem is hard work alone isn't enough to achieve those elite levels and most men don't have the natural ability to reach an elite level in any one category. Therefore they need to be balanced.

[–]5ItsDantesWorld 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When you give a women the moon, she will want the stars.

And when you try to give her the stars, she will want space.

[–]Endorsed ContributorForeverKarlMalone 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I dunno man, how many chicks you know would go after Warren Buffet as opposed to a standard well off Chad?

How many chicks would go after an extremely good looking, autistic guy over a decent looking guy with good social skills?

And you only have to look at who got implemented in the Me Too scandals (Harvey Weinstein, Aziz Ansari, Louis CK) to know that status can only take you so far if you don't have the other areas of your life taken care of

I think it's mainly controversial because of Zyzz being rated 8/10 hahaha. Like u/RPU_Mike said, "stopped reading there" lmao

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lmao I told people not to get caught up in the numbers but they still got butthurt over my personal rating over some dead e-celebrity.

The whole point of the rating is to show how we guys differentiate at all levels - the lowest and the top. We use a hierarchy.

Maybe zyzz is a 8 or he’s a 10, but to girls he isn’t. He’s good enough to be called “a muscly guy” and “He’s hot”. That’s all they care about. Is he hot or not.

Maybe Steve cook is a 8 or he’s a 10 but to girls he isn’t. He’s also good enough to be called a “muscly guy” and “he’s hot.” That’s all they care about. Is he hot or not.

We give a distinction to an obese guy and a really skinny guy. Girls don’t. Both of these guys, just by physique, aren’t hot to her. They are both invisible to her. To her, they are equally last place. Because with girls, either you are first place or equally last place with everyone else.

[–]DareyFathom 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am not really focused on the numbers for my argument, but they are completely and utterly off by most western nation standards. The average American male is closer to your 1 than your 3. To say nothing of your 6 and 8. I understand the argument you are making is that women have a binary threshold though.

[–]DareyFathom 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If given the chance, the vast majority of women will pick a geezer billionaire over a typical "Chad." You can see those Tinderfishing experiments and see how willing plenty attractive women are to overlook horrible men with extremely attractive features. Those famous people are only getting laid for their status. Which then gets used against them later for financial settlements. Look at the released texts from Neymar or Bezos and you realize how much men with one elite category can get away with.

[–]Senior Endorsed Contributormax_peenor 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your editorial of the post is better than the post. It deserves a post of its own.

So here's the deal. Women are into visible and demonstrable strength, not body building. The 6 there (post pic, obviously) is going to melt more panties than the 10. My brother was a hard core body builder--somewhere between the 8 and 10 there. I'm just a big mook that could literally move cars on my own, being much closer to the 6 but a lot wider (for the lack of a better word). My brother did great with women; I did way better.

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cheers brah.

You’ve been posting some good and original shit recently. I think you’ve played a part in spurring guys to stop consuming and start producing for the sub, almost reminds me of the golden years of trp around the (pound) metoo years.

You are right about today’s elite.

The information/internet economy will let them become more elite than ever.

It used to be a wealthy billionaire just sticking to their own brand (tech, oil, comms etc). Now we have huge enterprises like Amazon trying to seep their hands into every little thing in our lives. They got their hands in groceries, music, video streaming etc. All this started from just being an online retailer for books.

[–]acos12 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Unless you want to serve as a nice disposable snack for a specific type of female (which is a desirable position perhaps) looks is only about Treshhold. You just need to meet the minimal acceptable requirements for her and from there on its all money status skills. What is the this minimum looks requirment all about? Well, just be socially acceptable for her to be in public with you. Thats all. Being overly muscular or too well dressed just shows intent and makes you look needy thus actually lowering your chances.

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

looks is only about Treshhold. You just need to meet the minimal acceptable requirements for her and from there on its all money status skills. What is the this minimum looks requirment all about? Well, just be socially acceptable for her to be in public with you. Thats all.

Agreed. All factors of the SMV PIE work like this; Do you have enough looks, frame, and game or not.

Being overly muscular ans too well dressed just shows intent and makes you look needy thus actually lowering your chances.

This I disagree with. There’s no such thing as too muscular if you are a natty and even if with roids same thing until you reach Mr Olympia.

Look up Chris bumstead or sadik hadzovic. You think girls are rejecting them for being too muscular? Nope. These guys are big but proportionate.

Phil Heath isn’t which is why they’d might say he’s too muscular.

[–]acos12 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Christ bumstead or sadik hadzovic.

There is a group of women who really really are into this type of man. Im sure a larger group of women fantasize about this during masturbation. But for the FAR majority this is way to intimidating or simply not attractive. If you really believe this is the ideal bodytype for the majority or even a fair part of women.. that's simply not true.

[–]Defiant_Mess5346 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah Good Looking Loser talks about this - he says you just need to be above average in looks/social freedom to bang hot chicks. Once you're above the looks threshold it's just about playing the numbers game.

[–]GitGud_Pirates_Inc 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

My goal is that "6/10" 2012 look

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you aim for that, you won’t get it.

There’s this famous dude who teaches all these GuRuS, Dan Pena, and he said to be a millionaire, you got to aim to have $10 million.

Shoot for the moon, if you miss at least you will land among the stars. Physique wise for a natty that will be like Omar isuf or Scott Herman or alpha destiny.

[–]Subutai_Baghatur 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice post.

This is why I advise against guys going monk mode.

You are focusing on improving yourself, which is good but at the same time you will be moving backwards (or at best, stagnating) in other areas (cold approaching, game, escalation etc) that all contribute to your success in the SMP. Essentially you could trading one limiting factor for another.

[–]5ItsDantesWorld 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But what do girls do? For them its more binary.

I've been trying to explain this concept to members of dating groups I'm part of.

Women operate with thresholds.

Once you pass the threshold of "looking good enough," then you can use other factors like game and status to get her to bed.

If you don't pass the minimum threshold, there is nothing you can do.

And you don't have to be ultimate chad looking, only "good enough." Pass the threshold. And the further you pass, the easier seduction becomes.

[–]1319Skew 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

3 looks like IT support homoerotica

[–]Substantial_Buy_9275 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah bro Zyzz is a ten out of ten, the last guy is a 8/9 out of ten, being lean and sculpted/having good insertions and muscle bellies is a part of the equation,I am I guy and think that zyzz it perfection and at least a point higher than the last dude. I think you are taking too hard of a line on this, it's not this fleshed out/straight forward, It's just that some girls like guys with dad bods where as guys don't appreciate that.

in the last parts you also leave out that your face could be ugly and you are going for people out of your league

[–]zino193 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, but after 2 plates, it kinda gets personal. You do it for the bros, not the hoes.

Same with money, at first you do it for the merc, to take the tinderella on a drive and have something to drop her off to school. Then it gets personal you wanna move from the 100 000 self employed gig you call selftrepreneurism to getting a operation going and scaling up beyond that arsehole that is 80% of your business. Then you do it to compete with mister Rutledge from the Rotary club and bang his daughter and mistress - at the same time if you are a real dog.

[–]MaggieAndTheMossies 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, girls would not think this is accurate. You're rating the low ones too low. The high ones are freakishly muscular. Girls like normal guys with charisma.

[–]guccibans 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Lmfao you rated Calum Von Moger over Zyzz? And tied Zyzz with Lui Marco?? Your post can go fuck itself, you must be delusional

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Have fun with your video games and vape broo

[–]guccibans 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dog I’m probably bigger than you with a smaller waist. Nice fitness posts, got a physique to match them?

[–]guccibans 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Matter fact throw your face in the pics. You talk big on fitness and looks but I wanna see the real deal. I’ll match you trust. Would hate to see a video game addicted pot head look better than you

[–]flipster007 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why the fuck would you want date/bang a girl who only cares about muscles and how much you make !? Have some class.

[–]Endorsed ContributorProtocol_Apollo[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You sure you want to do this given your post history brother?

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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