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Bad date w/ wife confirms frame after 4 grueling hours

August 18, 2014

Taking wife out. First shit test she tries real cute to say she made a mistake at work resulting in her owing them 10 euro. (She basically stole it but the hamstering was slightly amusing) Asks to borrow 10 which is not a problem but I refuse on the principle that she knows this is a big fuck up on her part. By the time I can act good to her again she just asks for the money again and I decide to cancel our early plans and sit her down to a drink to talk about money issues.

I lay a lot of shit out and get her to agree to a joint savings account that will be peanuts to me but enough to fall back on for the shit she regularly can't afford at the end of the month. Shes young and sucks at budgeting. She kicks and scream the whole convo through with the usual emotional jabs like "you're such a little boy" (the one who is offering joint financial instruments) but eventually agrees.

We go shopping for her grandpa's birthday. Go for dinner. Second shit test is to complain how unfair it is I make more money and won't help her when she needs it. Hold frame and relate to how she needs to build financial trust with me (we are newly married) and until she stops acting like a gold digger I'm going to deny her on principle. Eventually this back and forth ends when I made a point on how many "gifts" she buys me and I land one back on how many of those I paid for when she said she'd get me back and never did. I can't eat I'm so disgusted with her gold digging rationalizations and I basically ignore her while she trails me for an hour in town.

We go to one lounge and I make small talk over wine but ignore her alot between this. By the end of the night I know this is certainly the worst date I have ever been on and the toughest I have ever treated a girl out on the town all gussied up.

On our way home she finally starts hugging me and looking at me with these big eyes and says she feels mad in love with me and thinks her endorphins are flowing or whatever. Proof that sticking to your guns confidently when you stand on principle is better than giving in just a little to appease a "good date" when she expects to be treated like a princess.

tl;dr - 4 hours of grueling date diverts into serious financial discussion and ignoring her while she swallows reality. Positions me as a respectable leader in her eyes. Commit to frame twice as much as you commit to her.

edit: one word out of place

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Post Information
Title Bad date w/ wife confirms frame after 4 grueling hours
Author demilitarizdsm
Upvotes 21
Comments 38
Date August 18, 2014 7:23 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/bad-date-w-wife-confirms-frame-after-4-grueling.19604
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2dv84z/bad_date_w_wife_confirms_frame_after_4_grueling/
Red Pill terms in post

[–]SgtTRP46 points47 points  (16 children) | Copy Link

It seems like she has already slotted you in BB.

It seems she's just making a tactical retreat. It's not a win for you. You are married now and she knows she's got you where she wants. She can shame you later. Or when shove comes to push she can play the divorce-rape card.

Commit to frame twice as much as you commit to her.

But does she commit to your frame? EUR 10 is not a lot of money. It made me sad just reading that it was a point of discussion in your marriage. Oh, congratulations on your marriage! Why did you marry with her? Didn't she give any indications about what's to come?

Thanks for sharing and best of luck!

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm guessing he got married pre-TRP and is doing the best he can with what he's learned. A BB already slotted as such has a low chance of turning the dynamic around completely, but when you are married, you might as well try - especially given that he's newly married, the precedents he sets now are crucial.

[–] points points | Copy Link

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[–] points points | Copy Link

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[–]1cover202 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not too late, she changed that one day. Women are like water, they fill the available space and respond to existing conditions. They'll bitch and scream but they generally go along.

The only bad thing is to be so beta that you supplicate them even as they're cuckolding you. Then I suppose they will go. But if she's next to you in bed every night, you're still in charge, so take charge.

[–]visibleinvisible0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are Rubicons in marriage, and cold beds. Not every marriage can be saved, nor should every marriage be saved.

Children being the prime exception/consideration.

[–]demilitarizdsm[S] 3 points4 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Slotted or not things are improving for me. TRP helps me fend off being treated like that so... I guess we'll see. We're both certainly in the lowest of the tax brackets and we're going to settle these issues before I would ever have enough for divorce-rape. I made a decision in my life to forgo high income to ditch the anglosphere.

[–]SgtTRP5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I suppose it would be hard to be alpha in a marriage. In my book just because she thinks of you as a provider doesn't make you a beta. But I hope she enters your frame soon, I believe that would make both of you happier.

I made a decision in my life to forgo high income to ditch the anglosphere.

Have you found a good place to build a family without a lot of government involvement?

[–]demilitarizdsm[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's not easy but I mean... hell that is why I am here. Getting her to enter my frame would be excellent. I see improvements as I continue to improve my physical shape. Obviously the financial side needs improvements.

I would say yes comparatively if I was still in America married to an American. I'm hesitant to put too much info all in the same place else I end up one of those TRPer who has to sweep out all their posts one day but if you check my profile you'll easily see where I live. Being an expat also complicates the government issues in some beneficial some negative ways. It is complex to say the least.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In poorer countries with less gender equality expectation for a man to provide for wife is not too unreasonable. Of course expecting return for your investment is not unreasonable either. Just stay firm but don't give in to resentment or other negative emotions towards your wife. She can't be held responsible for being a woman.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

He was talking about spending money in Euros so there's every likelihood that he will have as much government influence if not more so than an American would.

Not that government influence is necessarily in and of itself a bad thing. It depends more what exactly that curriculum consists of, and whether spending time with kids at home is able to clear them of some of the brainwashing, feminizing parts of modern education or not.

[–] points points | Copy Link

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[–]SgtTRP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you asking what your understanding is?

My understanding is if they show signs that they're seeing you as a provider it's unlikely you are the alpha in their eyes. If you are the alpha, they don't ask for stuff they haven't deserved. They would defer your judgement. Which means you can be the alpha and the provider but in that case it would be on your terms.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very few things in life are binary like that. It's just that when things get to a point where a man notices something is wrong with the relationship it's usually gone really bad already.

Also despite what people say on PUA message boards and related internet sites women can fall in love with average dudes with fuck all game and BB frame. For a while she might see him as alpha. It doesn't last though and that's when the relationship starts to deteriorate for no apparent reason if you are not aware of women's natural instincts.

[–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're making steps in the right direction. What you need to do is stop any and all validations to her until you get what you want in the marriage. Stop giving her hugs or saying you love her. Stop buying her presents or taking her out on a date until she starts to show you respect and validation. When she finally starts to give you what you want then you reward her with validation. Too many of us believe we can pile on more compliments or love or whatever and that will make our wife see that we love them. Doing this is exactly like giving a dog a treat for not sitting or giving your dog a big hug for shitting on your couch. It will destroy your marriage to give into her.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Perhaps you'll want to divorce her before you get to a wealthy state. She will get half of what has accrued over the marriage if she divorces.

[–]Rougepellet10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Newly wed and already a gold digger? Oh boy. You better start preparing right now for the divorce. Save all text convos, audio and video clips, whole nine yards.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Newly Married.....

Your post reads like you've been in hell with a demon for the last decade....damn...

[–]scramtek5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like a fun relationship. Why did you marry yourself to this women again?

[–]rorrr8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Your story is so strange

1) She is horrible with money, yet you want to start a joint account.

2) You are married, but you don't have a joint account? I hope you realize that legally she has access to yours.

[–]MRP92 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I completely agree with your point that he shouldn't start a joint account with her until she earns it. Better plan, don't ever start a joint account. Split your bills by % of income and the remaining money you both have is yours and you get to choose what you want to do with it.

She cannot get to your account unless she is a signatory. She can divorce rape you for half of it but can't legally access it while you're marrired unless you let her. DON'T!

[–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Depends on the laws of where he lives I think.

[–]1TheReason135 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"Regular emotional jabs"

This shouldn't be happening, she doesn't respect you. She sees you as a beta provider. Her blatant ways in engaging you seemingly indicates that you have allowed her to get away with this behavior often in the past, that more often than not paints a foreboding future. I'm guessing that she knows the power being married to you affords he, and if she doesn't know it now she will. DO NOT be fooled into thinking that she won't use it against you. AWALT

No man should ever have to put up with hours of pouting like you did. With the limited information provided, I would say that it is unfortunate that you married her. I would implore you to get out as soon as you can while you still can. I'm not clear on the laws in your country, province and state but you say you're newly married, if you are married for less than 2 years you can divorce with almost no loss of finance or assets if not no loss at all. That's the way it is in most countries from what I've researched.

I wish I could give you more pleasing advice, God speed and best of wishes my brother.

[–]1cover201 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Maintain frame, there will be more fights, but also more endorphin moments. This is what you signed up for. You can salvage this but you'll have to be the boss.

This will become harder, and also more important and crucial, when kids arrive. If you can't be alpha now, you'll be buried by the joint tasks and responsibilities, and heavy decisions and absurd moments, of parenthood. As well as that her bonding will switch to the kids.

You've got to completely rebuild your marriage, but you have a right to do it and you can do it. It's even the right time financially, since if she quits there's not much she could get. If she complains about this, give her some story about how you're growing as a person.

[–]1cover201 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So instead of paying 10 eur once and telling her it's her problem next time, you're setting up a "joint financial instrument" that means your money will flow to her reliably every month? Big win there, not.

How is it that she stole 10 eur from work, then got caught? What a moron, if she's gonna steal, it's not worth it for 10 eur. Anyway she's not very trustworthy.

Make the best of it. If she's gonna demand cashflow from you, do make her pregnant many times. She's probably suited as a baby factory.

[–]stemgang1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Best wishes to you. You are on the right track.

Whatever she decides, you will have to look out for yourself.

[–]elchoma902 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're married to an entitled, gold digging child like being who has little to no respect for you. You've already lost. Divorce right now before it ruins your life. Then, go monk mode for a year or two you clearly need it.

[–]wildchild110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you need to be much, much more of an asshole when you wife starts calling you names

[–]Jamerson460 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm married also, and I'm trying to implement TRP as much as I can. Everyone here is correct that it's hard if not impossible to go red pill after being BB. Just realize that it will be a hard road. Don't give her anything. If you give up the tiniest ground, she will own you. I'm struggling with this right now too and wish I had better advice. Good luck.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would not like to be in your position brother. I really hope you can turn this around.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're going to be divorced. Start planning now

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Serious question for everyone: Do you hold frame even when you can be proven objectively wrong on an issue? I see a lot of discussion of holding frame but no discussion on if it's ever a good idea to not hold frame sometimes.

How do you, as Kenny Rodgers put it, "know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, and when to run"?

[–]cntthnko10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

To some of you who say its too late... Doesnt that go against the theory of AWALT? And doesnt it take away from what TRP teaches? To be a man in control and not give a fuck? She will change, as long as she has more to lose.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I love how women hamster their sexual feelings. 'It must be the hormones raging.'

Umm, no lady. What the fuck do you think triggered those slut hormones? Her husbands strong, indefatigable frame has nothing to do with turning on the juices? Right.

Couple days ago I had sex with the wife. It was uninspired and afterwords, while I lay on top of her catching my breath, she decided to carp in her nastiest whiny voice that I had not brought a towel with me.

"Why would you talk to me in a disrespectful tone like that?" I gave her my best look of disappointment and disapproval.

Then I pulled out got dressed, leaving her laying there dripping on the mattress. Without a word I left the house until late in the evening when she was asleep.

The next day I texted her: "You are still a juicy little tart but a bit sour for my tastes. Work on it" followed by radio silence for the rest of the day.

That night she was sweetness and light, practically floating on air. We went out and she was cooperative and submissive- more relaxed than I have seen her in years. We got back late and she passed out in on of the kids beds reading to him. The next morning she woke me up with a blowjob (something that might have happened twice in our 20+ year marriage) followed by an especially vigorous coupling that is really the way to start the day.

She was dripping all over me and I had to neg her just a little: "I think we really did need a towel for that one."

TLDR: Don't let her be disrespectful and don't be ruffled by her emotional storms. Maintaining a strong dominant frame is the way to get your wife DTF. Forward fellow knight of the oval V, your wife will treat you EXACTLY as you let her. If you lead with stoic, rational, calmness she will follow- and will probably get strings of girl goop in her panties while doing so. Don't listen to the dump her advice. Use what you have learned to make your marriage what YOU want it to be.

[–]1Zanford-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Love the sour tart line. Am stealing.

Two BJs in 20 years? Or just two that she initiated? Either way...dreadful!

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah, 2 BJ surprises in the morning in 20 years (she will say it was "hundreds") and a couple times a month otherwise with perhaps 1/3 she initiates. Of greater concern is she won't swallow ever since she tried it and puked all over me those many years ago.

[–]aphelion3342-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Those of you who are suggesting he divorce his wife right now - don't you think this is a little much? No marriage is going to be perfect and nobody's behavior is going to be perfect, and it sounds like he's on a corrective course here. So why not give him a chance to use some medicine here on a relationship that's only a little bit ill?

We complain about women frivolously divorcing men, so let's hold ourselves to better standards in our own behavior.

[–]aphelion33420 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And obviously, I'm not suggesting op stay in an irreparably broken relationship or to endure abuse. But I think this is fixable.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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