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Covert contracts and why they suck

November 13, 2015
102 upvotes

tl;dr: covert contracts suck because the world sucks and because you can't negotiate desire.

Body: Covert contracts are pretty interesting and also pretty common. I'd wager that everybody has witnessed them in action long before he ever heard of the term. Also, they're irrevocably tied to the idea of the "Nice guyTM ".

In the book No More Mr. Nice Guy, Dr. Robert Glover describes the problems of a set of men who are not simply “nice,” but who suffer from “Nice Guy Syndrome.” These guys never assert their own needs and let people walk all over them, all in the hope that shaping themselves into what others desire will win them love and approval. And yet such behavior inevitably leads instead to unhappiness, frustration, and barely suppressed rage.

My personal theory is that introverted (and among them especially the nerdy) types are most prone to set up covert contracts. They see the world through a lens of cause and effect - their mode of thinking is "if I do X, I'll get Y". This mindset serves someone well when it comes to work, but it's a pretty shitty guideline when it comes to human interactions - especially if coupled with the wrong ideas about which behavior is more likely to produce which outcome.

Feminists like to vilify that mindset as "entitled", but "misguided" would be a much better description - "entitled" is someone who expects a certain outcome handed to him on a silver plate, which in the case of covert contracts doesn't really make much sense. Because the idea that the outcome of a situation can be entirely independent from the direct input is rather alien to the "nice guy" as described above - quite the opposite, he thinks that he has to work for it. The idea that one can simply ask for something and get it, or just take something and not get rejected doesn't compute for someone who is used to the opposite.

I once read someone saying here (paraphrasing here) "a nice guy sees women as quest givers whose task he has to fulfill so he can progress with them". So on the one hand, he doesn't think he deserves something just for being his awesome (cough) self. But on the other hand his problem is that if he has done the work he thinks produces a certain outcome, he's irritated if this doesn't happen: because what he fails to recognize is that neither is his course of action very likely to get him what he desires, but also that an entirely different approach can get what he wants with less effort.

1) The contract of inexperience

The contract of inexperience is when a guy's aversion to, hum, promiscuous women goes in a different direction than the redpill idea that they make bad long term partners (because they cheat and divorce rape you), but because he feels that she'd be a poor fit. In reddit relationships-lingo this would be called "not having the same values".

Why is that? Well, it starts with many guys simply not being included in the hookup-culture, usually by a mix of lacking opportunity as well as lacking inclination. As a consequence, they keep their distance to said culture, abstain from being a "player", someone who "uses women for sex" (which, as they probably have heard quite often, is the second-worst thing a man could do to a woman after actual rape), a "douchebag/jerk/asshole". They pass on having fun, suffer through dry spells, and put pussy (but only of the good sort!) on a huge pedestal. One might say that this is a case of sour grapes, but I wouldn't forget that an average guy can still sleep around with less attractive girls if he is ready and willing to do so. In turn, such a guy expects that his girlfriends had a similar attitude - that she didn't throw herself at guys she barely knew to spread her legs for them. He makes the mistake of thinking that what is attractive to him (inexperience) is also attractive to her. The covert contract in this case is: "I give you my love and affection unburdened by prior experiences, you give me yours."

He expects a low n-count partner because he internalized all these ideas that players are jerks and assholes no woman really wants and who only manage to get by sexually because they're scummy liars who play with women's feelings and rope them in with the prospect of a relationships, but that these guys would ultimately get their comeuppance in form of karmic justice, i.e. not finding love at all or at least not with a "quality woman" - because the latter would of course totally appreciate guys like him taking the high road. He expected to be seen as exemplary, as a "good guy", only to find out that him taking the high road didn't get him his unicorn, but just another slutty horse.

Now if such a guy realizes he has a slut on his hands, this puts his past decision into question: him being a "good guy" didn't get him a "good girl", but one that, unlike him, didn't let herself be restricting by hangups about NSA sex. One he could have had earlier and easier (and probably dirtier), that what he did or didn't do ultimately didn't matter. He either has to face that women like players (and he wasted years of his life by painfully avoiding being one) or that he got a shitty one. In both cases, he feels cheated out of his similarly inexperienced partner.

2) The contract of qualities

This is another, and actually probably the most common form of covert contract.

In this case, the guy expects that what he considers his qualities get him brownie points with women or a specific subset of women, because he genuinely thinks that these qualities govern attraction (you can guess where he got that idea from). These "qualities" cover a wide range of opinions, behaviors and what not. Maybe he's a notorious white knight. Maybe he's a feminist. Maybe he has committed himself to a cause women (or a specific subset of women) are into, like SJW stuff or animal rights. Maybe he's a good Christian. Maybe he loves kids. Maybe he's very non-confrontational (i.e. nice). Maybe he just has an awful lot of stuff in common with her. Remind you: this doesn't mean that he does the stuff exclusively or just mostly because of pussy, he actually may have adopted these qualities entirely without ulterior motive, but it can still mean that on some level he expects that having them translates into attractiveness to the opposite sex (or, as I said, a subset thereof) - or at least that their absence translates into a lack of attractiveness. The covert contract here is: If I cultivate the qualities women profess to desire, I become desirable for a relationship; if I don't cultivate the qualities women profess to desire, I become uneligible for a relationship.

The former is best known in the form of the strawman nice guy, though his main quality (or rather: set of qualities) can be anything. What matters is that he thinks that because he has certain qualities which he assumes should set him apart from "the other guys", should qualify him as boyfriend material. Of course, the notorious absence of success leads to frustration and resentment, especially if all the messages he gets indicate the opposite, or actually outright tell him the opposite. He is "such a great guy" and "shouldn't change", why the fuck are girls notoriously uninterested in him?

The other side is more low-key, and usually tied to the former, but not necessarily tied to it. Here the guy may not think that his qualities which he assumes are a condition to be eligible as boyfriend material are enough in themselves - but he can't wrap his head around the fact that one can go entirely without them in still be romantically successful. To illustrate this, I want to quote Scott Alexander with his pretty extensive post about nice guy-shaming regarding that particular point:

When I was younger – and I mean from teenagerhood all the way until about three years ago – I was a nice guy. In fact, I’m still a nice guy at heart, I just happen to mysteriously have picked up girlfriends. And I said the same thing as every other nice guy, which is “I am a nice guy, how come girls don’t like me?” [...] to spell it out very carefully, Henry clearly has no trouble with women. He has been married five times and had multiple extra-marital affairs and pre-marital partners, many of whom were well aware of his past domestic violence convictions and knew exactly what they were getting into. Meanwhile, here I was, twenty-five years old, never been on a date in my life, every time I ask someone out I get laughed at, I’m constantly teased and mocked for being a virgin and a nerd whom no one could ever love, starting to develop a serious neurosis about it. And here I was, tried my best never to be mean to anyone, gave to charity, pursuing a productive career, worked hard to help all of my friends. I didn’t think I deserved to have the prettiest girl in school prostrate herself at my feet. But I did think I deserved to not be doing worse than Henry.

This is the most basic and also the most tragic form of this covert contract - a guy who truly is a good guy and nevertheless gets it rubbed into his face hard that what he considers his finest qualities in reality mean shit on the SMP. But ultimately it's the same sentiment as the guy above. And it's also a sentiment that's held by loads of other guys, for example the SJW who finds out that his fellow feminists rather swoon over macho jocks than over him. Think of Barney Stinson's formative experience that led him to suit up, only without the comedy, and you get the gist.

3) The contract of the friendzone

Did I say the second was the most common? Well, I have to backpedal, it may also be this one. But it may also be because it's the best-known and as a rule contains the contract of qualities as well. The contract of the friendzone is probably the most debated covert contract, at least among the younger crowd: guy does all kinds of shit for girl but gets rejected despite his efforts.

Here I have to interject something: there are several definitions of "friendzoning" flying around on the internet. Disregarding the disingenuous blowhards who say the friendzone doesn't exist, there's also the overly sensitive faction that already counts it as "friendzoned" if a girl rejects a guy who has a crush on her but would prefer to stay on good terms with him. Well, technically he is in the "friend-zone", but in the context of this particular contract it requires a bit more from the guy than pining over a girl who barely communicates with him.

The contract of the friendzone means that the guy is invested in the prospect of a relationship and tries his best to make it happen. The fundamental friendzoning dynamic is that the guy is making an offer - he's courting her without outright stating it. He does all sorts of stuff guys only do for girlfriends (listening to her shit, taking her out to diner, spending all of his spare time with her, buying her presents, making her mixtapes, validating her etc. pp. yadda yadda yadda), it's basically his sales pitch and - let's be honest here - in most cases it's so blindingly obvious what he's up to that only the most naive girls are oblivious to it. He basically hands her the covert contract for a relationship and hopes that she'll sign it; the covert contract here is "I show you what a great boyfriend I'll make, and you'll either take me up on my offer or make clear beyond any doubt that you're not interested. The second part is of course an undesired outcome, but what's even worse is if the girl in question gladly takes all free samples he gives her while pretending that she either on the fence regarding a relationship or even that she didn't notice the contract at all. And when she ultimately does reject him, or picks another guy (jerk, asshole, douchebag, etc.) who didn't jump through hoops to demonstrate his honest intentions, this "inevitably leads instead to unhappiness, frustration, and barely suppressed rage" (ah, the sweet taste of the sunk cost fallacy and the frustration it leads to when one realizes one has been strung along).

4) The contract of compromising

This one could also be called "the contract that happens after failed shit tests". This particular contract is the one you'll most likely stumble over when you google the term: most sites that deal with covert contracts comment on people (mostly guys) who tried to reignite the passion (...you know what i mean) in their marriage by doing all the things they thought would work: choreplay, supplication, communication, backrubs, roses etc. - basically, they were trying to craft a compromise with their partners, the covert contract here is: "I do stuff for you to do you a favor, therefore I may expect you to return the favor by doing "stuff" (:winkwink:) for me". Of course it works as well as one might expect; the guy is basically behaving like in the friendzone, with the exception that he's now trapped inside the relationship and under the worst circumstances can't just cut his losses and ditch the broad.

Disingenuous blowhards (again) will tell you that the problem why this didn't work was because he had an ulterior motive, but common sense says that's bullshit - he could be as "ulterior motive-less" as he wanted and the partner would accept his tokens of affection and still not put out; the only difference would be that he'd be less frustrated about it.

The contract of compromising is ultimately the most dangerous on that list: the relationship situation that leads to the creation of these contracts is as a rule a pretty dire one, and the dynamic this contract produces makes sure that your relationship situation also stays dire. You'll try to regain the favor of your partner by supplicating ever harder, but the reaction isn't that she mellows and her love is rekindled, but that the frustration level rises - possibly because she continues losing respect, possibly because she feels guilty that all your efforts don't lead to her feeling more affectionate towards you (if you want to know more, I suggest you check Archwinger's entries, he has basically written volumes worth of information on this particular subject).


Okay, there's no way around it, covert contracts suck - this is something even the bluepilled mainstream will agree on. However, they do it for the wrong reasons: they do it because they consider covert contracts dishonest, they ascribe their failing to them being born out of ulterior motives, they judge them because they think what you're trying to gain when operating under them is questionable, that they're manipulation etc. But simultaneously, by handing out wrong advice and faulty suggestions, they help birthing new covert contracts every day. And I mean, can I blame the guys? If you're constantly told that you should do assloads of choreplay and constantly kiss her ass, but that pestering your wife for sex makes you worse than Hitler, covert contracts seem to be the most obvious solutions.

The red pill on the other hand rejects covert contracts simply because they don't work.

If covert contracts worked but where just considered morally dubious, you'd see countless of posts on this side praising them and explaining at length how you could set them up without the other party noticing. But you won't see that here, because they fail as a rule, and they fail as a rule because they violate two fundamental RP principles: that you can't negotiate desire and that the belief in a just world is bullshit. Covert contracts are born out of the misguided belief that you can get what you want by behaving "the right way". That by being a non-player you'll also get a non-slut. That by forming yourself in the mold of the "ideal boyfriend material" you'll also get a girlfriend. That by courting a girl you can win her over. That by meeting your partner halfway, she's also reciprocate the favor.

And what all these contracts have in common as well is that they totally overrate the impactof what I call second tier-qualities. Second tier qualities are all these qualities a "perfect boyfriend" supposedly should have, or the traits that show "personal compatibility" - basically all the fluff women will write in their dating site-profiles. However, these second tier qualities (like being a good listener, listening to and reading the same stuff she likes, being good with kids, sharing her political opinions, being always understanding and not controlling blah. blah. blah.) don't get you anywhere without the first tier qualities (everything the red pill says you should cultivate).

So what you want is pushing your value by developing actual quality traits, not those virtual ones that only work under the condition that you have the first tier-quality set. And never ever enter covert contracts again - when you're a high value guy, you won't need to display the behavor that comes with covert contracts anyway.

lessons learned: avoiding the covert contract-trap. Not because you're an asshole for having covert contracts, but because they'll strangle you.

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Post Information
Title Covert contracts and why they suck
Author exit_sandman
Upvotes 102
Comments 32
Date November 13, 2015 12:42 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/covert-contracts-and-why-they-suck.38094
https://theredarchive.com/post/38094
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/3slr6k/covert_contracts_and_why_they_suck/
Comments

[–]NotUpToAnythingGood13 points14 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Outstanding write-up. The part about the friend zone really hits home. That was me for a very long time. I was only ever able to break out of it by having a couple of shitty breakups.

The most memorable was the girl going all character assassination mode on me. Telling lies, slander, and every sort of bad gossip she could muster. All because I got a plate and the attention went to her instead of the girl.

But that helped seal the deal on staying out of the friend zone. It's a scary place with no self respect.

[–]RPmatrix2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The most memorable was the girl going all character assassination mode on me. Telling lies, slander, and every sort of bad gossip she could muster. All because I got a plate and the attention went to her instead of the girl.

"hell hath no fury like, that of a woman scorned!"

[–] points points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Scarlet_Arbiter7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

agreed, a lot of the examples (namely the friend zone one) hit close to home for my days stuck in the dream. I haven't been awakened for long, but i've moved past the anger phase and no longer feel any kind of pain, anger, or remorse when i think of my BP days. I simply reflect on my past experiences with a TRP outlook now and understand where and how i fucked up, especially with things like use of covert contracts.

I still have my fuck ups as i'm still learning and making changes, but now i acknowledge internally almost instantly that i've just fucked up and if the situation is salvageable i bring my focus in on it. When i know they cant be, its time to practice willingness to walk away.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Super post and men who want more really need to read No More Mr Nice Guy and When I say No I Feel Guilty.

Dont read these books to get your dick wet, read them to live a powerful life where no one can easily manipulate you again

[–]icecow2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I say No I Feel Guilty

Didn't know about that one. Looks like a great book. Got one from Amazon. There's two 'Good' quality used hard cover copies left on Amazon for $.03+$3.99shipping=$4.02 shipped if anyone else is interested, or $7.99 Kindle all day.

[–]Batou_Red4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The contract of the friendzone is really where I've played the most. It's incredible how quickly girls can turn into total bitches after you deny them any small thing. I had a "friend" who asked for homework one time, when I explained to her how to do it, she thanked me and went on her way. The next time she needed homework, she called me at midnight the night before and told me to email it to her. I told her to do it herself. That "friend contract" didn't last long after that.

[–]sir_wankalot_here5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

OP hit upon why more intelligent people are actually more subseptable to covert contracts as he calls them.

My personal theory is that introverted (and among them especially the nerdy) types are most prone to set up covert contracts. They see the world through a lens of cause and effect - their mode of thinking is "if I do X, I'll get Y".

So an example of a covert contract is the hitting the wall fallacy on TRP, and it actually was promoted the most by more intelligent members.

Speaking from personal experience, unless a contract has been drafted up by a good lawyer you do not have a contract. And even then possibly a smarter lawyer might come along and figure out a way to break your contract.

But it took me a long time to figure out just because I put X in is no guarantee I will get Y out.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So an example of a covert contract is the hitting the wall fallacy on TRP, and it actually was promoted the most by more intelligent members.

I wouldn't call that a covert contract (since it's entirely independent of what the guy does), but circlejerking about the wall comes from the same desire for some sort of karmic justice.

[–]2popthatpill4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Excellent post, particularly the last couple of paragraphs.

If you want to extend the discussion, consider examining how women use covert contracts. For example, putting the sex coins in and then getting butthurt over not getting any commitment out sounds suspiciously like a covert contract.

Another example of a covert contract is the way women entice men into supporting female rentseeking: give us sociopolitical support and we'll reward you with sex (hence leading to the creation of that most loathsome of creatures, the mangina). The manginas deliver the sociopolitical support for whatever it is women want (say, abortion rights). In return they get... nothing. The sex promised in the covert contract is never forthcoming. Of course, the manginas can't do anything about it.

Women use the "support us and get laid" covert contract because it's so effective. If men collectively suddenly realised supporting female sociopolitical strategies isn't going to get you that sex they're promising, it's a scam you fuckwits, you'd see mass unplugging of men.

Of course women don't want to see mass unplugging of men, because that pulls the plug on the AF/BB scam. That means that this covert contract is a central part of the whole BP scam against which we contend.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you want to extend the discussion, consider examining how women use covert contracts. For example, putting the sex coins in and then getting butthurt over not getting any commitment out sounds suspiciously like a covert contract.

True, though this post was more about the covert contracts set up by men.

But yeah, a woman who let herself be fuckzoned in the hope for a relationship has also set up a covert contract. So does the "good girl" who abstains from riding the CC in the hope of being more attractive to the opposite sex (though in her case, it's more reliable), and makes covert slut-shaming comments (like "I could never sleep around") about her less virtuous friends. Or the ambitious girl who works hard, gets good grades and finally has a nice career, who assumes that this will make her more attractive to the opposite sex.

[–]NeoreactionSafe9 points10 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Beta orbiting is rare with older people.

This might be due to the fact that it was considered taboo in the older culture or it might be because older people generally get somewhat wiser with time. In some cultures singles are not even allowed to be in the same room together before marriage, so beta orbiting was illegal.

Story

At the local bar I talk with this young guy. I'm 54 years old so most of the regulars are around my age during the early hours, but as it gets later it gets younger and younger and on weekends there are daytimes when festivals are taking place and everyone is at the bar.

Anyway...

So this young guy and I talk and he's aware of Red Pill. He's read all the concepts.

But then his behavior is the opposite.

He hangs with his "girl friend" who is his "best friend".

So I'm thinking "okay, this can't be right... this girl has to have a low opinion of the guy because he's clearly orbiting."

I get a chance to talk with her and she knows Red Pill too.

My question to her becomes:

"You know he's being a beta orbiter right?"

...and her answer is "Yes".

.

Be warned... intellectual knowledge of Red Pill is useless if it isn't applied in your life. Your addiction to Blue Pill vices must be stopped. Kill the Beta and free yourself.

.

[–]TRP_Werther0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I couldn't dream of telling a girl about TRP, plus they don't belong here.

I'm at university (bastion of feminism and SJWs) and one society that I'm in demands all men and Non-ethnics leave the room so all the feminists can talk in private - fair enough, I don't want that drivel in my life, nor do I feel like pointing about the hypocrisy.

But the reverse should be true, men should have places, where only men are allowed.

I suspect due to reddit guidelines Women's TRP was created but it's all a farce.

Its soooo common among women, when they're all together gossiping guys aren't there nor are we allowed to be there

[–]all_the_right_moves0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I suspect due to reddit guidelines Women's TRP was created but it's all a farce.

I love RPW. As a LTR-seeker it gives me insight to the minds and attitudes of the types of women I want to pursue.

[–]TRP_Werther0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

But does seddit and TRP do that already?

It's so cliche, but you don't ask a fish how to catch a fish, you ask a fisherman.

In my experiences when I've asked girls how to get girls, they just tell me to be nice and do loads of unwarranted favors for her.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'll give the forum a look before casting judgement

  • Just checked it out, it's not bad. I'm conflicted though, in the presence of women the dynamics of men change. New members may become purple pilled, aware of RP truths but still sticking to BP actions in the hope that they work eg. Mindlessly support the views of women online in the hope of pussy in real life

I still feel that if you're trying to improve with women, Seddit (it's abit of a bitch fest now, I recommend simplepickup on youtube, or just search Top posts of all time and read) and TRP (to understand the psychology of women) are you're best bets.

If you don't mind my asking, what are you struggling with?

[–]all_the_right_moves0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't use it for any specific problem, I just enjoy the insights.

I entertain a oneitis on the side, to be truthful. She's a super unconsciously RP woman; totally AWALT (because they all are) but extremely aware of male and female roles and what successful female strategy is. I don't want to lose myself trying to figure her out, so I'm casually seeing a few other women, but she is by far the most qualified of them all.

That's what I'm struggling with, but it's not relevant to the discussion and I just wanted to vent.

[–]Endorsed Contributorredpillbanana4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Covert contracts with women will be rendered null and void due to Briffault's law:

From the sidebar:

BRIFFAULT’S LAW:

The female, not the male, determines all the conditions of the animal family. Where the female can derive no benefit from association with the male, no such association takes place.

There are a few corollaries I would add:

  • Past benefit provided by the male does not provide for continued or future association.

  • Any agreement where the male provides a current benefit in return for a promise of future association is null and void as soon as the male has provided the benefit (see corollary 1)

  • A promise of future benefit has limited influence on current/future association, with the influence inversely proportionate to the length of time until the benefit will be given and directly proportionate to the degree to which the female trusts the male (which is not bloody likely).

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Covert contracts with women will be rendered null and void due to Briffault's law:

Same for overt contracts. Men may abide by their marriage vows and intentions, women do not.

Women reserve their right to change their minds. Women do not have honour nor much shame.

But so much blue pill societal (and parental) teaching is "be a good person, do X, get Y". And this just results in people (men especially in relationships) just getting used. And they do it because they know no other way, it's what they've been directly told to do, and that it's the right thing to do.

Women do suffer from it too. "I thought sex with Chad would lead to commitment from Chad!". Chad: "What the fuck, I said I don't do relationships." Girl: "Well yes I know you said that, but this little hamster voice in my ear said you didn't really mean it and besides I thought if you saw how ~slutty~ sexy I am, you'd change your mind!"

I'd hazard most women have suffered from this at some point (hello all the Alpha widows out there), and most attractive men have been on the receiving end of this style of female behaviour. It's most striking when women try to put a weird sort of social contract on you: "I know you said X, but it's normal for a girl to think that Y means Z regardless of what you said".

And at its worst when you say there will be no relationship and she turns round later and accuses you of using and abusing her because there is no relationship. (And when it becomes clear she's making it all up, she finally blurts out "but that's how I feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel").

So.... What's better than any sort of contract with a girl? A girl's motivation to be with you and her motivation to be sexual. In other words, attraction. In fact when you've realised that appreciation and reciprocation don't exist with women, it's all that you've got left to have a good dating life. And most men are utterly deluded about how that attraction and motivation works, simply because women lie about it to secure their beta bucks.

[–]RPmatrix1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great thread OP, excellent explanation of these scenarios and 'covert contracts' is an excellent term/analogy for the behavior you've described so well

thanks

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're on a posting spree. Good to see that. Top-notch post.

Learning about how covert contracts work is important because it helps unplugging. It's the essence of taking the red pill. Seeing the world as it really is. Lifting is great, learning about women is great. But understanding one's own conscious or subconscious ideas of covert contracts stops you from pouring more energy into the gearing mechanisms of your matrix around you.

Another point: In my opinion the next red pill step after understanding covert contracts is getting better at "leading". Or, for most beta guys, try to lead for the first time in their life. I think that leading is the exact opposite of believing in covert contracts.

[–]itsbooming0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

And yet TRP seems to promote covert contracts. Maybe there is a time for them (comfort)? I don't know as I agree with TRP principals but also do agree with covert contracts being unhealthy for yourself and the other person.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can you elaborate? I don't see how Covert contracts are promoted. Alpha takes what Alpha wants and that's it

[–]Stythe0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Great points and some were things I realized I was doing subconsciously when I first started improving myself.

My only feedback for you is about your writing style. You're needlessly wordy and I found some of it hard to follow. Still, good stuff and nice debt.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

My only feedback for you is about your writing style. You're needlessly wordy and I found some of it hard to follow.

Guess we can be happy that I haven't written in my mother tongue :D

[–]Stythe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, I'm glad anyway, haha. Anyway, this was some good info. It's nice to see posts on TRP that aren't specifically tailored to male-female relationships and are more about the psychology behind human interaction in general. This kind of stuff is very helpful in giving people clear examples of how social dynamics work and how they can be altered to your benefit.

[–]icecow0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Top notch. I'm surprised by this posts low up vote count. Top notch writing skills as well.

[–]Mightaswellmakeone0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Is covert contracts in literature outside of redpill ideas?

I see this applying to a number of my coworkers and I think knowing more socially acceptable literature on this would help me lead them better.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Covert contracts is mostly applied to romantic relationships as far as I can tell; but you'll find the term as such also in mainstream literature.

I mean, if anything is non-controversial, it's the existence of covert contracts.

[–]lo3jfj3333l0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Bro you got it all wrong, nice guys dont think the karmic gods are going to favor them with a nice girl just for being nice, its that they have the integrity not to stoop to the level of the very sluts they hate. I get it, TRP preaches defeatism, if you cant beat em join em, but hey some of us still have a soul to protect.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

My point is that if you expect to be "rewarded" for your virtuosity by becoming eligible for similarly virtuous girls over guys who didn't abstain from sleeping around, you may be in for one rude awakening.

[–]lo3jfj3333l0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well yeah, the reward in not sleeping around is being able to look yourself in the mirror, not premium access to certain types of pussy.

[–]cxj0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great fucking post. Quality TRP materiel right here.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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