Do not let yourself be defined by women, nor your incidental success with them: There is No Chad

July 12, 2018
19 upvotes

Imagine I posted something like "hey guys, you know, the most important thing in TRP is to make feminists like you. Really, that's the key metric you should try to optimize for. Everything else is negligible.

You will be right to respond with "dude, why do you attach such importance to what others think of you, especially any one particular group, most especially this specific group that doesn't have your best interest at heart at all? This is not TRP, it's the opposite". I'd get a lot of well-deserved downvotes and a swift deletion.

Yet somehow we had front page post declaring MGTOW illegitimate because women don't like them and won't fuck them. According to the author, and whoever upvoted him to XXX points, you must get a bunch of women's approval - the proverbial note from your mommy - in order to GYOW.

Otherwise, you're just an incel loser.

There is no better way to give women all the power: letting them define you, granting them gatekeeper authority over the various paths and choices of your life.

Whoever wrote this post had women successful install themselves as rulers in his mind.

Unfortunately, this isn't uncommon. Even here we have the PUA industry instill this notion that our success with women defines us. That you're either a Chad Thundercock banging all the Stacies, or an incel loser who should be euthanized. Of course, then only possible choice then is to become Chad, which you can do buy buying every PUA product sold by the self-designated "Chad".

Like all industries, the PUA industry aims to disempower you, convince you that you have no value by yourself, and your only path to gain any value is to pay for their products and services. Your worth depends on women, and they are currently rating you one-star, so clearly you have no choice but to pay thousands of dollars to a worthy man like PUA coach ChadTC to validate you as someone above the absolute garbage you currently are. Then a bunch of women will stamp your PUA validation note with their pussies, and congrats, you are now a proper man.

Look, if you read my posts, you know that I'm very focused on game and women. I'm one of these guys who doesn't enjoy fancy food, Netflix, or having female friends. The social interaction I enjoy above all else is with an attractive young lady I'm either seducing or already fucking. I LOVE the game. Nearly everything I posted here is about it.

I'm not a good looking man. I'm fit, but way short and my face is ugly. But because I put so much effort and thought into it, I outperformed nearly all men in my looks category. To put it bluntly, I'm at best a 4 yet at various points in my life I was regularly hooking up with 9s.

So yeah, I went from kissless incel to the player who fucks Chad's girlfriend. Some guys would let it get to their heads: "wow, I'm the shit, I HAVE SURPASSED CHAD!". The ultimate PUA game ending! You know why I don't? Because THERE IS NO CHAD.

Chad is a delusion. That epic man who can lay all women is a myth, just like the NBA star who never lost any game. Lebron James is amazing, easily among the best players in history. But even he can't win all games. You know why? Because some factors are not under his control. Good as he is, he can't win when the rest of his team drops the ball.

I worked hard and outperformed, but things can easily go another way. There's plenty of women much taller than my body, and my success with them is very limited. If I was stuck on a desert island with 5 tall women and 10 tall, good looking guys, then trying to seduce these women would probably be a waste of time better spent on other efforts.

Success is incidental, hard work is not.

More generally, there's some things you control, and some things you don't. Success with women is not really under your control. Anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves. The mythical Chad who always succeeds does not succeed. I've peeked behind the curtain and fucked his girlfriend. She was bored and horny and tired of his cheating, so she let me game and fuck her.

Success with women, a female partner who worships the ground under your feet, female loyalty - these are all incidentals. Put me in a group of women all 5'3" or shorter and I'll bang tons of them. Put me in a group with 5'10" women and a whole lot of 6'5" guys, and I'd have to work my ass off to seduce any of them, likely failing almost every time. (Before y'all pick me apart in the comments - save your breath, this is a simplification.)

Ecclesiastes said it best:

I returned and saw under the sun that—

The race is not to the swift,

Nor the battle to the strong,

Nor bread to the wise,

Nor riches to men of understanding,

Nor favor to men of skill;

But time and chance happen to them all.

Do not judge your fellow men for their success or failure with women. That success depends on many external factors, and most of all on women, who have their own reasons to fuck this or that man. The irresistibly masculine alpha man is a fun little myth. If the current SJW trends continue, it's totally possible that women will eventually turn down any guy who isn't a feminist, and then what will you do?

Judge men by their effort, not their result.

Finally, it's totally possible for a perfectly good man to reach the rational conclusion that getting laid has become more trouble than it's worth. Let's not kid ourselves, all of us will reach that stage, unless we die before. What are you going to do in your 70s, chase after 20 year olds? Fuck unattractive 50 year old women just to tell yourself you're still "fucking women", "winning the game", and therefore a "worthwhile man"?

What should we call those whose sense of worth depends on others and external factors, rather than their own self? I call them weak, dependent, indeed: feminine :>

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Post Information
Title Do not let yourself be defined by women, nor your incidental success with them: There is No Chad
Author DickTerper
Upvotes 19
Comments 48
Date July 12, 2018 3:09 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/do-not-let-yourself-be-defined-by-women-nor-your.51381
https://theredarchive.com/post/51381
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/8yakya/do_not_let_yourself_be_defined_by_women_nor_your/
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Comments

[–]187oddfuture6 points7 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

LiveAFTSOV was right. MGTOWS are only in one of two camps: those who get laid and eventually get tired of putting in the work (going out a lot gets old) and voluntarily check out, and those who get rejected, don’t get laid, and check out involuntarily, while blaming women for their lack of sex. (Think “You can’t fire me! I quit!)

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (12 children) | Copy Link

MGTOWS are only in one of two camps:

What's the benefit of categorizing and generalizing and judging fellow men?

If someone is acting like a whiny victimized bitch, it's useful to point out. Otherwise, mind your own affairs and progress, post about good shit to do, answer questions if you can, ask them if you need to.

In my experience, most generalizations are aimed to serve the person doing the generalizing. Like, I might post about how "MGTOW are with few exceptions a bunch of bitter incels" to make myself feel superior, because I'm not one of them.

[–]RedForEducation 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Better question. Why are you in here cheerleading for mgtow?

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

Have you read the post? The word MGTOW appears in it exactly once. It's an 1100+ word post.

[–]RedForEducation 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is the same argument that's been made for years. To save time we will get to the punchline.

MGTOW™ is different than going your own way. Rp guys go your own way, there's no other option but co dependancy. The post you reference is talking about MGTOW™, Not MGTOW.

Your critique of it is you don't want a blanket statement to lump you in with retards. Trust me, anyone here worth a damn can get behind that. You went your own way, and so have others, but don't mistake it for MGTOW™.

HERE'S THE PROBLEM.

Guess which group needs others to go their own way, as a validation metric for their decision? ™. Guess which ones are shitting up the sub?™

And the reason I removed it. Guess whose not getting laid™, and takes an inordinate amount of space on this subreddit? ™

[–]187oddfuture0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Because MGTOWS are quitters, dude. They are the opposite of this sub. Instead of accepting the burden of performance men are destined and designed to saddle, they decide to quit and check out from the SMP. Every serious person on this sub took the red pill, recognized the error of their BP conditioning, and accepted the fact that they need to work to improve themselves in every aspect of their lives every day. That’s not easy, and it never will be. But that’s why we’re here. This isn’t a place for MGTOWS to espouse reasons to quit, to check out. You’ve got your own sub for that.

[–]monsieurhire20 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

You can quit pursuing women, focus on yourself, and then discover, after you have built value, that you now have to beat them off with a stick, while grudgingly laying pipe on the worthy few, provided they do the legwork and make things convenient for you.

Also, there are some men who look at sex as a vice or an addiction, akin to smoking, drinking, or drugs, and they find various ways to cope with it: hookers, masturbation, sublimation, abstention, cold showers, scourging, etc. while they go about pursuing their mission.

When people on here push the hedonistic viewpoint is being THE WAY, it reeks of insecurity. It's fine if people want to experiment or experience, or completely live out a hedonistic lifestyle over the course of their lives. But even though they experience benefits, their are still costs and trade-offs, just as there are with the other paths.

I remember after I lost my virginity at 19, that I realized that the whole sex thing had been built up in my find through listening to some friends brag about their experiences, mostly to cover their own sense of insecurity and low self-worth, the media, literature, and my own imagination. It really wasn't that great, at least not with the girl I lost it to. It certainly wasn't worth it to make it the center of my life.

[–]187oddfuture1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I remember after I lost my virginity at 19, that I realized that the whole sex thing had been built up in my find through listening to some friends brag about their experiences, mostly to cover their own sense of insecurity and low self-worth, the media, literature, and my own imagination. It really wasn't that great, at least not with the girl I lost it to. It certainly wasn't worth it to make it the center of my life.

Very true, when I lost my virginity it wasn't great either. Lots of factors go into that experience.

You can quit pursuing women, focus on yourself, and then discover, after you have built value, that you now have to beat them off with a stick, while grudgingly laying pipe on the worthy few, provided they do the legwork and make things convenient for you.

This is what I think this sub is about. You focus on improving yourself, through lifting, hobbies, reading, internalizing, and learning game. Then you become a high smv man that women want, and you do with them as you see fit.

My gripe is that I don't see how MGTOW fits in here. Sure, it's a fork in the road of the Red Pill. Either go black pill, improve yourself, or go MGTOW. But they have their own sub, and nobody over there is preaching self improvement to this degree to my knowledge. They have their sub and we have ours.

I just can't see MGTOW in its current state as anything more than quitting when faced with adversity.

[–]monsieurhire20 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, I think a lot of men are uncomfortable with genuine MGTOW (Nikola Tesla), as opposed to incel, sour grapes MGTOW (some whinging landwhale neckbeard on Youtube), so they assume their is no such thing, and that all genuine MGTOW men, as in men who have been there, done that, and now want to pursue something completely beyond sex, are mere poseurs.

And it's for the same reason bluepill men are uncomfortable with TRP; it's a different choice reflecting a different value system and it makes them question their own choices, that are based on value systems and assumptions underlying them. They are afraid to pull the thread and see where it goes.

But the same thing is true of TRP men, who don't want to believe in the possibility of a fairytale existing as a reality created by a shared agreement to believe, so they explain away every anomaly that suggests their own worldview isn't all encompassing.

Personally, I envy genuine MGTOW, because they are often pursuing something beyond mere sexual reproduction; they are trying to make a contribution to civilization. At the very least, they aren't controlled by their sexual desires to the point that they enter into abusive relationships.

[–]187oddfuture0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think genuine MGTOWS just do, and aren’t public about it. I find it hard to believe that guys who are actively out to change and innovate civilization have time in their days to explain how they swore off women on reddit. That’s why I’m super skeptical when I see MGTOW posts on reddit or YouTube because between the neckbeard that can’t get laid and the entrepreneur, innovator, etc., who do you think has time in their day to peruse reddit?

[–]monsieurhire20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The point is well taken. Of course, these guys that post aren't the historical "great men," but perhaps, lesser "pretty good men," or "above average men." Think, some guy who had his fill of women in his twenties and thirties, and now just wants to work on cars, write computer software while listening to classical music, or go surfing, or go traveling. Occasionally, a woman throws herself at him, and he obliges if he has the time and feels some attraction. Otherwise he flies under the radar. Then he runs across this site on the internet, reads through it a bit, and occasionally posts under a throwaway account because it resonates with his own personal experience, and because even though he goes his own way, he realizes that he's not alone, and that there are other men out there with similar values, and that it's not all bluepill betas.

I'm telling you man, I literally shifted back and forth between TRP and TBP, as what I saw with my own eyes vs what I wanted to believe for years because I lacked a community of people to act as as sounding board. You can go your own way, but that doesn't mean you don't enjoy the company of others, who are also going their own way.

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Because MGTOWS are quitters, dude.

OK, maybe some of them are. Know what? Maybe all of them are.

That's not the perspective I'm defending.

My post is about the view that men don't need women in their lives to be happy.

Do you see the difference?

It's not about quitting, it's not about dropping every challenge to the ground, it's not about calling women evil and just staying away from them because they don't unlock with a button like your vidya.

I'm not defending any of these things. MGTOW appears in my post once, yet dominates most of the comments. If I only cared about getting the message out, I'd probably erase that one MGTOW reference from the post.

But I actually don't give a fuck, and glad to defend these underdogs that apparently became pariah here. Has my outcome independence impressed you enough? ;-)

[–]187oddfuture0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I bet if you ask the majority of MGTOWS if they're actually happy they'll say no. The original founders who voluntarily decided to cut things off from women after they had their fill? Maybe. But not the majority of guys who call themselves MGTOWS today. Evidenced by how they blame women for all of their problems despite men affording women the legislation over generations that brought their standing as a gender to what it is today. As men, we're hard-wired to desire physical attention from women. Wars have been fought over this, bruh. Revolutions. Murders. The entire reason monogamy was created, independently mind you, in every advanced ancient human civilization was because in its absence, where the top 20% or fewer men hoarded women, the guys left without women fought and killed for breeding rights. Pussy is an incredibly powerful motivator.

[–]CalvinRichland1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Ironically there is some truth in your overall message. The winning with women will come naturally when 0 fucks are given. Otherwise it really is just a front.

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (5 children) | Copy Link

Why is that "ironic"? I've been known to make a decent point from time to time...

And yes, that is a big part of my point: that guys are working from a more or less implicit assumption that they have to get women, thus sabotaging themselves, both tactically (they'll be nervous talking to women) and strategically: they'll see women as the ultimate goal, rather than themselves.

[–]CalvinRichland0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I am not calling you ironic. I am saying it is ironic that once you move past women being the goal they appear so easily. I agree with your point. In a way it is still putting them on a pedestal, but pretending not to. Master level is when you never pretend or think you just do.

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

In a way it is still putting them on a pedestal, but pretending not to.

Yeah, absolutely. How are you not putting women on a pedestal, if you consider them not merely desirable, but essential to your well-being?

"Outcome independence" becomes a mere act: "I better not act nervous around this chick or she'll think I'm a loser... But actually I haven't been laid in weeks... I really have to get laid soon... I'm falling back to my incel shell... OMG I'm terrified..."

You're like a buyer who won't walk away. Sure you'll bargain, play the field, try to get better offers... But ultimately, you have to buy.

The guys I met in my life who had a lot of success with women were more like my comments describe. Sure, they'll pay some cost to have a fun woman in their lives. But never too much. They'd rather be alone than put up with some bitch.

You know why that is?

Because once you've been with enough women, the fairy glow goes away, and you realize that yes, they are fun, but so is rock climbing, and a job you really like, and many other pursuits and activities. Women can be more fun than many of these things, and as long as they are, you would be justified in your rational decision to keep them, but once that's no longer true - you should be able to eject without a moment's hesitation.

I don't want to attack some folks in the comments directly, but it does seem like some of them still operate from a glorified - dare I say, Blue-Pilled - view of women as these magical creatures you absolutely must have in your life.

[–]CalvinRichland0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely true. Frame is important but some might not see the difference of fascade or frame.

It is a fear of filtering, and eventually you might actually have to spend time with the chick and her clothes on. If you are really this awesome dude you should not only get what you want but be glad when you filter out what you dont actually want.

Simple example. I am into guns and lots of chicks are put out by that, some even would cut me off straight away. Good riddance, if i am going to have fun with this girl she is going to have to come shooting and love it.

If bitches are a plenty why should i ever care if i allow them to filter me?

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, the best players I met in my life had this view that I call "the Master perspective". Basically, they choose the girls they want, by being themselves and seeing how the girls respond.

Personally, I don't enjoy dressing up. So I don't. I picked up girls who were all dolled up as if for a cover shoot, while I was wearing sweat pants and flip flops.

I don't recommend it in general, and nowadays I often dress better when I go out, but I do it because it's my choice. The worst thing you can do with women is get emotional, definitely so early on. Doing anything out of fear of rejection? Good luck with that.

Girls actually do it a lot, by the way. If she really wants you, she'll pretend to be whatever she thinks you want. She'll pretend to share the same taste in art, sports, music, food, etc. That can actually become a problem, because putting up this facade is effortful, and she'll eventually get tired of pretending to like all this stuff that actually gets on her nerves... But that's a whole different post :-)

[–]CalvinRichland0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Preach it brother. This is high level. The ability to attract girls and the confidence to cause them to do the filtering for you.

And before someone with it on the pedestal jumps in and is like but i dont like brushing my teeth i only do that for the womenz, you are missing the point. Be attractive as you can be but fundamentally be you.

[–]jonpe871 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you believe in yourself? Seems like you are trying hard to convince even yourself and is not having success

[–]mallardcove3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

This post is wrong for all the right reasons, and right for all the wrong reasons. To me it reads like a bitter MGTOW who is mad that TRP is wanting less and less to do with MGTOWs period, and a lot of the more respected users here think MGTOW is retarded, and so you are trying to white knight for MGTOW.

I firmly believe that if you are succeeding with women, you aren't going to walk away from that. I always hesitate to believe the MGTOW "I totally succeed with women and bang 9s and 10s all the time, but I am thinking more and more about going my own way, you see..." posts.

Anything worth having in life requires work and effort. That includes women. That's the main complaint I have with what I call "first wave" MGTOWs, the ones who succeeded with women but walked away from it. Their reasoning always circles back to "It's not worth the effort anymore". That's life and a sense of entitlement. Anything worth having isn't going to just happen and fall into your lap. You guys are just bitter that you have to put in effort. If it were easy, everyone would be doing it.

It's like video game nerd losers who advocate for Bernie Sanders and socialism, because they just want to sit on their ass all day and play video games, fuck having to work.

"Muh. Why aren't girls falling into my lap. Muh. You mean I actually have to try and put in effort to get women. Muh. Fuck all that, I am just going to go MGTOW and shame any guy who tries to better themselves and do what he can to become Chad. Muh."

However I view first wave MGTOWs like unicorns. Do they even exist?

I am also starting to laugh more and more at the "my mission" posts. So many guys claiming to go MGTOW so they can focus more on "their mission". Oh really. What is your glorious mission that is so important that you can't be bothered with women in any way whatsoever? "My mission" is becoming the new monk mode. An excuse for guys to withdraw completely from the sexual marketplace and hamster away their failures with women.

[–]JamesSkepp0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

To me it reads like a bitter MGTOW who is mad that TRP is wanting less and less to do with MGTOWs

The reason for this is that MGTOW are fine with everyone being on the same bottom dwelling level, but as soon as someone starts getting some successful pussy - he becomes an enemy. MGTOW is easy to accept and easy to remain in, contrary to TRP.

[–]mallardcove0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nail on the head, I pointed this out. It's not enough for them to go MGTOW, they have to shame the guys who don't and instead work to improve themselves to increase their success with higher quality women. Crab bucket mentality.

You often see this manifested when they shame guys going after girls by saying something along the lines of "Why are you wasting all that time and effort going after SLUTS". I saw a lot of this in the Tinder Guide post I made.

[–]itiswr1tten2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a giant buffer. Saying the juice isn't worth the squeeze is literally sour grapes. Saying men have no control over LTRs is abdication of the leadership role. Claiming the dating pool shrinks as you age is scarcity mentality.

Every single one of them would be happier and more fulfilled if they were sexually successful. Their favorite buffer against that truth is binary thinking - "you're saying it's all about pussy dude". No. There is a gray area but losers love black and white because it doesn't challenge their thinking.

I don't buy the whole movement and agree so called first gen are unicorns.

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

To me it reads like a bitter MGTOW who is mad

I'm not MGTOW at all. Look at my post history, I am very much still involved in game, talking to women, going on dates.

I just think MGTOW is a legitimate choice, and we should not disrespect a man just because he took it, or is unsuccessful with women.

I firmly believe that if you are succeeding with women, you aren't going to walk away from that.

I'm somewhat inclined to agree, and this doesn't contradict anything in my post.

So many guys claiming to go MGTOW so they can focus more on "their mission".

You may come to a point in your life when you realize your mission is always going to be there, while women and game will not. For example, what if you have a great career, but every once in a while you have to travel to a location where there are simply no attractive women for you to game?

In general, your response brings up a lot of specific types of MGTOW followers, and then reasonably criticizes them for their faults and hypocrisy:

  1. The guy who uses "his mission" as an excuse to give up on game.
  2. The vidya addict for whom "MGTOW" is just one block in a puzzle of a passive, low-effort lifestyle.
  3. The whiny man-child who is scared and angry at reality.

However, don't you see some legitimate potential reasons to do MGTOW?

What if you're old, ugly, maybe unhealthy in some way? Game would require enormous effort, and at the end you may land some ugly old bitchy woman as your only prize.

I think MGTOW is important as a perspective. It's good to keep in mind that women are optional.

This opposing view that women are always important and you should "always be gaming" gives these women way too much power. In bargaining, it's the equivalent of "I will not walk away" mindset. You become desperate, attached, outcome dependent. Ultimately, you will pay any price.

How about this alternative view:

Yes, women have value to me in my life. No, that value is not unlimited. No, I will not pay any and all cost for it. If it costs too much, I will eject them and work on other areas of my life.

Seems much more TRP to me.

[–]mallardcove1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Seems much more TRP to me.

What TRP does is tell you the actual rules of the game and how things actually work. Once you know the real rules, you game the system. If you do everything right, over time you have to put in less and less effort. It's like planting an apple tree. All the effort is on the front end, but when the tree grows and sprouts its branches, the only effort you have to do to continue to reap the fruit is pick the apples.

TRP is the same way. Put in the effort on the front end and women become more and more effortless on the back end. It still requires effort, just not as much.

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you do everything right, over time you have to put in less and less effort.

You sure about that? How about after 50? Still "getting easier over time"?

It's a hell of a lot harder for me to game 18-20 year olds now than it was in my 20s, despite all the skills and how well the other aspects of my life are going.

Personally I think TRP is about a lot more than "getting women". Sure, get them if you can, if the cost/benefit analysis is positive. Otherwise, don't.

That's real empowerment.

[–]CalvinRichland0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I knew you were older, these young bucks don't understand eventually they too will get bored with the thrill of strange. TRP is not exclusively about having as many one night stands as possible, although it is useful to do so. It is simply a strategy like being a nice guy is. It applies to dating, marriage etc. The goal being different but tool the same.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

But you also define yourself by women. If you weren't than why did you bother to give examples of your success with women.

Let's be honest, we do give fuck about women that's why we are TRP. At least I do because I want to fuck them and I feel better after that.

What you said about self worth that will only come after practical experiences in real world not reading what MGTOW says.

[–]mallardcove2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you weren't than why did you bother to give examples of your success with women.

Classic MGTOW paradox and I'm glad you brought this up.

If women and success with women, is so meaningless, why do these MGTOWs always have to justify and quantify themselves by talking about all their success with women?

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (4 children) | Copy Link

But you also define yourself by women.

No, I do not. I don't think anyone who has much success with women is impressed with a man just because he fucks many women. You can be an immature man-child and have women throw themselves at you because you inherited billions and/or are a celebrity. It's idiotic to define yourself by that, much like defining yourself by the size of your bank account. There might be a reason to be proud of that, but let it define me? Hell no.

If you weren't than why did you bother to give examples of your success with women.

Because I'm aware that others judge me according to my success. That's the whole point of this post.

I do not want readers to dismiss this post as "yet another incel loser complaining that them grapes are sour", since that is simply not the case.

Let's be honest, we do give fuck about women that's why we are TRP.

So you're on TRP only because you want to fuck women? That's a mistake that will catch up with you, sooner or later.

You're not going to have a great career if all you really care about is penetrating that next pussy. You're not going to really work on yourself and become a better man if your only goal is to impress some women enough so they spread for you.

I'll let you in on a little secret: you don't need a great career and life to fuck a ton of women. There's tons of shortcuts, and the guys I met who got laid the most (almost like they were obsessed about it) had most of their time and energy invested in game. For this and other reasons, they didn't have much else going on.

If women are your goal, the game is already lost.

This is something I can see being said in the PUA industry, but in my opinion TRP is not about that at all.

At least I do because I want to fuck them and I feel better after that.

If your goal is "to feel better", why not develop a drug habit? Much easier than chasing women and game skills.

What you said about self worth that will only come after practical experiences in real world not reading what MGTOW says.

I never said anything about "reading what MGTOW says".

I wrote we should respect that choice.

I also wrote that we should not judge people merely by results. Such judgement is misguided, ignorant, and superficial.

I'll give you an example.

I knew this dude who was short, ugly, super awkward with women. He was a kissless virgin in his early twenties. Around that time he started working hard on himself. Then he worked on meeting women. He went through a river of absolute shit and got rejected and "let's just be friends" so many times. But eventually, he got a pretty cute girlfriend. We parted ways around that time, but I'm pretty sure he stayed with her for some time after.

Objectively, this guy's results are shit. He was about 25 with a lay-count of 1, who he had to work for and date multiple times in order to lay.

But I respect him a lot more than some other guy I met, who was born rich, tall, handsome, and laid a ton of great looking girls purely based on that. That guy was a 20 year old baby and his model-grade girlfriend was cheating on him, which about everyone knew except for him.

If the short guy put all this work into himself, and got a good life and a career, then decided he's tired of girls turning him down in disgust like a piece of trash because he's wasn't 6', then I'd still respect him a hell of a lot more than that 6'2" rich dude who doesn't even understand what "effort" means.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You need to learn some basics of TRP! NEVER D.E.E.R (Defend, Explain, Excuse, Rationalize).

So yeah, I went from kissless incel to the player who Chad's girlfriend cheats with

You never came out from your incel shell. After reading your response I seriously doubt your success with women.

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (2 children) | Copy Link

You need to learn some basics of TRP! NEVER D.E.E.R (Defend, Explain, Excuse, Rationalize).

Are you a woman? Is this a relationship fight?

And here I was thinking I'm posting at a forum for men, who discuss and explain the game rationally. My bad.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

never DEER absolutely does not apply to "man to man" talk. We are men .. we DEER together that is what makes us go forward. We are the rational thinkers.

Clearly this guy doesn't understand these basic concepts.

[–]itiswr1tten1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

MGTOW is communism. Looks nice on paper, rabidly endorsed by 95%+ losers, and appeals to the crowd that needs something to blame for their problems. Saying you've solved the woman problem by not being involved with women is fucking up from step zero. The woman problem is imaginary, it is a you problem.

Chad is an archetype whose definition reveals more about the mindset of the writer than whatever the archetype supposedly is capable of. If you're young, or a socially awkward person, Chad is that guy from high school or college you envied or bullied you, but got the girls. That archetype reveals immaturity.

For others, Chad is a bogeyman coming to steal his girl. Regardless of how cynical he is about this (even to the point of adopting it's just my turn mindset) it's still a giant crutch to owning your shit and learning to lead your relationships.

If you have to live archetypes, let Chad be James bond or whatever. Aspire to be the guy, for reasons that satisfy you. Seems to me those who think they can get by as a heterosexual without sex are not taking the truth.

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (3 children) | Copy Link

Saying you've solved the woman problem by not being involved by women is fucking up from step zero.

Suppose you're a man in your late 50s. It will happen to all of us, if we don't die young. What are your options?

The number of attractive young women who willingly sleep with you is vanishingly small. Do you fuck old, unattractive women?

This is not a rhetorical question, and I really would be interested in your answer, but my current impression is that you are laboring under the delusion of being defined by your success with women, just as I describe in the post.

I liked your other points about Chad as an archetype and a boogeyman. For what it's worth, I attained success in the game by following my own tendencies and creating a character that fits me, rather than molding myself after some archetype.

[–]itiswr1tten-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you can't fuck younger or attractive by your standards women at any age it's still a you problem. Your second sentence/paragraph is literally a scarcity mentality. The way to solve this problem is to stay attractive and identify a relationship style that suits your wants without exceeding your abilities. True at all ages

I think the Chad archetype is stupid because it's just a buffer to defining what you want and executing on that goal. However it can be useful for people that struggle with the abstract or need an actual person to aspire to.

[–]DickTerper 1 points [recovered]  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you can't fuck younger or attractive by your standards women at any age it's still a you problem. Your second sentence/paragraph is literally a scarcity mentality. The way to solve this problem is to stay attractive and identify a relationship style that suits your wants without exceeding your abilities.

Women are a benefit, that has costs. Beyond a certain age, the cost of women start rising, while benefits decline.

If you're in your 60s, you will have to work incredibly hard to hook up with a woman young and attractive enough to meet your standards. And even after all this effort, she may only fuck you once, or you will enter a relationship in which she has all the power, because she can find another guy in a heartbeat, while you will have to extremely hard. Sure, you can ignore that, and just dump her as if you have options. Then you're back to being single and working hard to get laid again.

You're taking the unreasonable position that men should always pay whatever cost, however high, to have women in their lives.

That will land some men in a very bad position.

Moreover, you casually assume that you can always "fuck women who are young or attractive by your standards" and "and identify a relationship style that suits your wants". Would be nice if that was the case, but it's merely wishful thinking.

Is it true for a young healthy guy in a major city? Probably.

Is it true for an 60yo guy who wants to fuck decent looking women and not get trapped in an LTR in which she has all the power? Probably not.

[–]itiswr1tten1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Again, massive scarcity mentality and zero ownership. Bad relationships are a failure of your leadership. Ceding all power in a relationship is your mistake. Neither of these are foregone conclusions if you're a capable and trustworthy leader.

If you can't fuck women you find attractive, it's because you aren't attractive. This is absolute 101.

My position is you'll very likely be unhappy without female company. I'm certain I'm right on that. The rest of this apocalypse mentality regarding LTRs is all a buffer

[–]The_Real_Cannaman 1 points [recovered]  (7 children) | Copy Link

There is No Chad

Bs, if u r not socially retarded u will fuck girls as chad.

[–]berreae2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Chad is a myth... Or role maybe. Not something given to you. This is where our incel friends are wrong.

[–]Ray_pinasses12101 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Here’s the thing about “chad” He does exist! But contrary to this sub, he’s not around every corner and not 1-10 of guys. Real chads. The guys who are tall, jacked, rich and look like models are literally the 1% of males. Now obv they are what all women want, and what all men want to be, but let’s keep things in perspective. Very very very few men can obtain all those qualities through hard work alone!

Sure you can obtain some of them! But not all, so drive to be your best self, don’t be a sperg when you’re communicating and practice regular hygiene and you’ll be fine

[–]Math_Baller0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean, genetics are undeniable. Incels are wrong thinking genetics>everything but they do play a role-height for example.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Chad is a genetical top 5/10/20% male - it depends on person's defenition. It's a common misconception that everybody can become Chad by lifting, dressing well, getting a haircut, grooming etc. While those things improve your SMV, it doesn't mean you become Chad by doing that.

Does only Chad get girls? Ofc not. But you need to be delusional if u think, that looks (genetics are unders this category too) don't play a tremendous role in attraction.

[–]SteroidsFreak0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thats where youre wrong bro. Seems like youre lookin for external validation. By wanting to become this "Chad" which lets say you already are, then you'll be lookin for imperfections. Who says you aren't perfect already?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nobody is perfect, that ain't d point here. I don't want to become chad anymore coz it is not possible.

[–]JamesSkepp0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

the PUA industry aims to disempower you, convince you that you have no value by yourself, and your only path for a worthwhile existence is to pay for their products and services.

There is enough free PUA content, both theory and practice, to fill your time for a few years to put it into action.

 

TL/DR: I'm blackpill and don't want to stop being one b/c it feels better to give up than to try and fail a few times before I get it.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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