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[FR] - Tinder Close Full details from tinder convo through overcoming token LMR - an example for beginners

March 12, 2015

tldr; A simple example of tinder with a yes girl. She puts up with intermittent tinder texting - 3 week delay and 4 month delay after getting number. We have a seemingly bad first date. 2nd date is a las tminute booty call to watch a movie. I overcome token LMR by very slowly escalating - being careful not to make any sudden leaps that would scare her and no real freezeouts - just subtle suspension of physical touch.

Thanks for all of the helpful field reports and suggestions. Keep them coming. There are patterns that work, and it's helpful to see working models.

I started this with an opener one of you suggested. Let me know if it was you.

Oct 26 Me: I hope you want me for more than my big spoon skills
Her: Lol
She Liked your moment
Nov 12th Me: So I am guessing that's a yes
Her: Maybe
Me: you should also know that I'm a terrible person
(one of you pointed out that when you make a claim about your nature, other people are drivento disprove you. Genius! It also doubles as an early frame announcement for what this is - two terrible people starting to date (ie casual sex))
Her: I am too
Me:: Meet up?
Her: This weekend :D
Me: #? Her: 867-5309 She liked your moment
Feb 1 Me: Hey what's up
Her: Nothingnuch
Her: Nothing much*, what r u up to?
Me: Hey ill text you so we can meet up for a drink

Switched from Tinder to Texting
Me: How about Friday 7pm Bar
Her: Can we do 9?
Me: yes Her: sounds good
Her: still on for tonight?
Me: yup
Her: Lol sounds good
Her: omw b there in 10
Her: Are you already there?
Me: on my way
Her: just found parking
Me: ok im inside
Her: almost there

This is an example of texting for logistics. Also notice the aloof game. Almost a 3 week delay after the opener after her weak response. Then a pause of 4 months after getting her number. One of my roommates matched with her, so I let him take a pass at it. He seems to have settled down so we discussed it and I went for it again.

I was annoyed because she was about 10 minutes late. Also she was way under-dressed - jeans and a sweatshirt/jogging jacket. I had dressed up - button up nice pants, boots fitting of the atmosphere. I gave her a hug when I saw her and let her get her own drink. The first thing I said to her was what was on my mind"Hey I timed my drive to account for your lateness and I still had to wait."

It set a pretty uncomfortable tone. She began qualifying saying how when she moved to this part of the country she changed her wardrobe and she used to dress up all the time with her parents - she bragged about their careers. It was hard to break the ice with her, we spent a lot of time talking about inane things - the places we were form and how they were different from our current town. Talked about our families, hobbies, and a tiny bit about what we did - mostly focused on her except for the hobby bit where I discussed mine. I started the kino about 10 minutes in by pressing my leg against hers - she pulled hers back slightly just barely maintaining contact. The convo kept going on the same track. I kept my body pretty open, legs spread leaning back and facing forward, she was sitting to my right with her body angled towards mine.

At some point I pull my leg away and she re-initiates contact. The conversation loosens up a tiny bit, I start to tease her a bit and get her to tell me stories about her sneaking out of her house in high school. I do a tiny bit of hand kino but she pulls away. The initial tenseness lingers. We ended up talking for about 3.5 hours - she was somewhat tense in response to further kino escalation - like hugging and playing with her hair so I didn't try to invite myself to hers or hers to mine.

Overall there was not a great deal of vibing - I felt like I had overdressed and was too stiff and created a negative vibe. Between the clothes and spending too much time talking to her may have signaled major Beta Bucks. Her fashion choices signaled to me she was looking for a quick drink and a ride. Ended date with a hug. No "I had a great time text from her" Over the course of the night she only drank half her beer, I only drank one.

Had a different girl cancel on me one night a few days after that first date, so I texted the girl

Me: "Hey whats up"
Her: Nothing
Her: "Much, jus thcilling at my apt tonight. U?" (This is a very good sign, an invitation) Me: "same wanna watch a scary movie and help me finish a bottle of wine" - ref to first date cinematic interests Her: Sure
Me: Whats your address
Her: [address]
Her: Im warning you my apt is a mess

I get to her place with the wine, she's in pajamas belly button showing. we start drinking. Makeup on face.

We chat for about 15 minutes, and she's laughing quite a bit and is loud and bubbly - totally more relaxed this time. At this point I just grab her face and go for a short kiss. She is continuously talking and I only interrupt to tease, handholding is escalating.

We are on the couch next to each other and about 5 minutes after that first kiss I drag her on top of me for more physical intimacy and cuddling. I pull away first for the first 3 rounds, but then she starts to break up tension with laughing, jokes, shifting away etc.
I would build up the intensity and she would stop me. This is usually where I have failed LMR often by freezing out in a butt hurt way or being wayyyyy too pusy.

Reaching between her legs always stopped me, but here's what I did over the next 90 minutes while we watched the movie (I know I know)

-gently stroke her inner thigh/her butt/her face. Every once in a while gentle kissing on face - when she showed resistance/slowed down I would stop petting her for a bit and focus on the movie before resuming. Sometimes I would flip her over pull her hair/choke her atiny bit and bite her neck. That would get her grinding on me hard. After being stopped a few times while advancing towards her passion fruit I just starting humping her - letting myself get as turned on as possible and smelling her hair. She pushed into me.

Eventually I got sweaty and had her flip onto her back while I spooned from the side. From here I could stroke her inner thigh. I got there very slowly - starting with the knee and very gently moving in. She closed her legs once hen I got too close, and then opened them again later so I went for it and got stopped hard - she grabbed my hand and pulled it away. It was a very cuddly vibe so this next exchange came out in a pretty comfortable way. Me: "Are you uncomfortable?"
Her: "I don't want to be distracted"
Start kissing get a little heated. Me: "That's a problem because I love distracting you" I then reached under her bra. No resistance here. We finished up the movie and I follow the escalation ladder. I lift up my shirt, belly on belly. I take off my shirt. I carry her to the bedroom. I reach around the back to gently finger her, then to the front. I get her and myself and undressed more fingering, then close.

I hope this was helpful. This is an example of a yes girl. Recognize the signs - gives you her number, responds right away after you disappear for a while, welcomes you into her home wearing pajamas.

Thank you for all of the feedback everyone

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Post Information
Title [FR] - Tinder Close Full details from tinder convo through overcoming token LMR - an example for beginners
Author FrameWalker
Upvotes 24
Comments 23
Date March 12, 2015 7:25 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/fr-tinder-close-full-details-from-tinder-convo.30138
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2yrtsw/fr_tinder_close_full_details_from_tinder_convo/

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Very good post from your perspective; flawless from you top to bottom through the first date.

And you added a perfect example of the sex life of a modern women:

Sitting around doing nothing until a guy she is interested in texts her to fuck. What a hard life it must be for her

[–]tangman5 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

If she suggested this weekend why wait 4 months? Maybe you could've closed that weekend?

Also idk if its just me but 3.5 hours seems like a really long first date for one venue

[–] points points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]FrameWalker[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol I love this description. That's exactly how it felt. Am I the sheep in wolf's clothing or is it the other way around?

[–]R1fle5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Definitely escalate faster. This sounds like me when I was first starting out and very nervous.

Watch this a few times, tell a girl you're taking her out tonight, go lift, eat a big ass meal, talk to a couple girls on the street to warm up (ask for directions to any store or place you can think of at the time, and start a convo off of that, make them smile. it's easy. even if you're just saying 'thanks, btw you remind me of my mom' as you walk away), then go pick up or meet the girl you're going out with and do whatever you intended on doing + hold frame.

If you are EVER unconfident on the date because you genuinely feel like she isn't showing any IOIs. Just go in for one last kiss regardless of whether she accepts it or rejects it, tell her you had a fun time but you don't think this is going anywhere. Then walk the fuck away.

I came to realization I was upset at the end of first dates because I wasn't kissing them when I wanted to. If I want to, I just do it. Once I started kissing girls on the first date, I always got second dates. I've had girls reject like a dozen of my advances before. I'll purposely make them awkward just to make them feel desired in a non-threatening way, and when I really want to kiss them I just grab them and pull them close, or I'll pick them up physically (think bear hug) and place them next to a wall or in a corner for pseudo isolation, then plant the kiss.

I then came to realization if I'm not fucking them by the third date I'd be upset because I wasn't getting what I wanted. Get what you want, and if she doesn't like it then what is she even doing spending time with you? She can go be friends with someone else. 100% of the time though, if a girl agrees to spend time with you(date), the only way you can fuck it up is by being too boring or too passive.

(one of you pointed out that when you make a claim about your nature, other people are drivento disprove you.

This is definitely true. In fact one girl qq'd to me about how she hates when people sit next to her on the TTC(public transit) when there are other seats available, and she said she also hates when people pass silent gas on public transit.

I opened with 'See, if I were to sit next to you on the TTC it would be because you seemed fun to talk to, and if you didn't want to talk I would just silently pass gas and hope you wouldn't notice.'

Instead of writing me off she said that depends if my farts are the stinky kind or not. Instead of claiming my farts smell like roses which may or may not have been enough to win her over I went straight for the above rule. I said, 'It just so happens they are the stinkiest kind. Sometimes I wish I was a girl so I would never have to pass gas again.'

Shit test averted. Promise you this line alone will get me her number, additionally I'm free to fart whenever I'm around her because we've already broken the ice on this subject. If she farts in front of me tho, that's a different story.

[–]FrameWalker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

thanks for the valuable feedback

[–]1jb_trp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In sexual interactions women want comfort, men want speed. At some point you have to meet in the middle. I've gotten so many numbers of women off of Tinder that I've never met because I was too busy, got distracted, already had several other plates spinning, etc. Abundance mentality.

OP did just fine. I've had women that I've talked to, then not talk to for months, and finally when we do meet have hooked up. If you're gaming lots of women and they're being approached by men, this is bound to happen sometimes. OP did a good job at maintaining frame and showing a willingness to walk away.

[–]FrameWalker[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

main reason was my roommate had gone on a few dates w her and I was waiting for the air to clear/distracted.

[–]1NV0K3R4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This time frame is god awful. Also, even though you got laid, I feel like you need to work on actually playing the attraction game initially. I think she just thought you were hot but you couldn't provide actual entertainment(I know that's not our purpose, let's face it to the hamster that's all we are), but if you're actually FUN on a date(ie. proper levels of teasing, humorous, Amused Master etc) you don't have to do a fucking 2 month long game.

I can't text worth shit and that's where my game suffers. But if I can get a girl alone it's literally pants on head easy.

[–]Doomsday_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you didn't talk since Nov and she replied to your text in Feb? I'm baffled.

[–]Steve_Wiener0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP I'm glad you got some sexo, but does anyone else intuit that this is just another garbage level slut?

I mean it is just sad/vexxing to me that we have men posting detailed guides with our own vocabulary and initialisms and studying methods and reading forums for hours upon hours just to score a lay with a degenerate box who just lays on their back and watches tv 5 hours a day and has sex come to them. In before anger phase. I mean showing up late and wearing lounge clothes to a date is insulting. I guess I shouldn't expect much from tinder or the typical modern girl, but I mean look at the disparity here.

[–]screamingATtrees0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Me: what are you up to?

Her: nothing

Me: boring

delete number and move on

....too harsh?

[–]apachemd0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm fairly alpha but by no means a zen master PUA. That said, no offense, but imho this took way too much time and effort. If you add up all the time you took thinking about this, texting, meeting, talking to her I.e. listening to her bullshit pretending you are interested, how much does that add up to? And in return you got what, 15 minutes of pleasure? Not a favorable ROI of you ask me. For me, sex/women are all about ROI, and time is a much bigger investment than money. I'd rather bag a less attractive chick in far less time and with less effort (very high ROI).

[–]FrameWalker[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. I see where you're coming from. Total time texting is on the order of 20minutes, 3.5hours chatting and 2 hours escalating.

Agreed that first date was too long.

Remains to be seen, but roi will go up if plated.

I aim to keep first date at 1 hour. I usually spend 2-4hours with new plates before I close. Ons have been under an hour.

What time frame do you use? Escorts?

[–]apachemd0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

No hard and fast time frame. Heck I often go into periods of monk mode, focusing on my business, money, lifting, bjj. These are very productive times. I don't use escorts, but I don't judge those who do, very high ROI that's for sure. Here and there I've dated sugar babies, gave them some gas money, a gift occasionally, the trade off being that I didn't have to spend time with them. I know lots of guys like you though, friends of mine, they spend inordinate amounts of time chasing girls and sex, but if they ever sat down and did the calculations, their ROI's are abysmal. Better to up your SMV -- physique is the easiest and fastest way, but there's a limit to how far that will take you. Money takes you much, much higher. And fame on top of money takes you to the stratosphere. If I were you I'd spend my time upping my SMV so you could bag a chick like this with much less resource investment.

[–]FrameWalker[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So what you're telling me is that 5.5 hours over two dates is too many, yet you have no time frame. Perhaps you want to believe that your choice to not get laid is justified? I'm not going off much here. Your post helped me reflect, hope to return the favor.

[–]apachemd0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't know how old you are or how much money you make (i.e. how much your time is worth), but for me 5.5h is a lot of time, time that there is no way I can squander. It's not have I haven't spent 5.5h with a woman before, I most definitely have, much more than that even, but these were GF's and LTR's, from whom I got much your return from (e.g. shared interests, common activities, doing fun stuff together, good conversation, etc), which then shifted the R side up on the ROI. Also, I think most of us would agree that sex is way better with a person we know and like, which drives the R even higher. Correct me if I'm wrong but from what you wrote it sounds to me like you only wanted this girl for sex with an attractive stranger (nothing wrong with that at all, most are only good got that) i.e. all other time with her was zero return time. If true then your R was quite low and your I very high, thus unfavorable ROI. I suspect you are in your early 20's and thus your time doesn't seem that valuable to you. I was like this in my early 20's too, and pursuing sex for notches was my #1 hobby. I wasted enormous amounts of time, money, and liver cells doing it. In retrospect the only thing it was good for was bragging to my buddies the next day i.e. not really with it. I wish instead I woulda used that time working out more, learning bjj, reading, saving, starting business and investing earlier (compounding interest starting at 20 vs. starting at 30 is a huge advantage). All those notches were a waste.

I don't mean to patronize you, this is just advice I would give to my 20 year old self of i could. I'm not recommending celibacy, but rather serial monogamy with gf's you like every 3-6 months. I think the yield and ROI on that is much higher than pursuing notches with strangers.

[–]FrameWalker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks that was quite helpful, I now see what you mean by ROI.

[–]Lt_Muffintoes0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the "Hey whats up" opener is a bit weak. Obviously, it worked for you in this case, but I reckon you could do better.

[–]2rp_valiant-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

just an aside here - maybe you should edit this girl's number out of the post.

[–]FrameWalker[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Jenny I've got your number... 5675309

[–]2rp_valiant7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

you caught me. Thanks for the dicking the other day, shit was so cash.

I'm more thinking in terms of reddit's global "no doxxing" rule. In light of the recent talks between the admins and SJWs and SJWs' hatred of us I thought it might be wise to not give them ammo to shut us down with.

[edit] just googled the number, realised I completely missed the joke. I'll see myself out.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good job. You recognised your mistakes. Congrats on getting your dick wet lol.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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