~ archived since 2018 ~

Getting your T-Levels checked should be something that is part of completing the sidebar.

Sonifys
November 10, 2017
484 upvotes
/r/TheRedPill

I really never understood why people downvote and blast people who comment the importance of healthy testosterone levels. There is no reason you shouldn’t get the test done.

 

If cost is a problem you can go to privatemdlabs a website that allows you to get the blood drawn at a local doctors office and you get the results without your primary doctor knowing. IT ONLY COSTS $85!

 

Once you receive the score I urge you to try raising your score naturally. There are plenty of natural ways to raise test. Squats, eating red meat, eggs, more fats, zinc, etc. Don’t jump into TRT without doing research and talking to a doctor. Also, don’t treat yourself make sure you're under doctors care.

 

Before getting the test done I was 22 (142 lbs) under 10% bf. Very active going to the gym 5 days a week.

 

I recently went through the process of getting my testosterone looked at and I had a total t level of 320. Some say that you can naturally bump it up which I did try. However, after a few months, I decided to talk to a doctor and was put on TRT. My current dosage is 150mg every week and I feel great.

 

Some of the biggest changes for me were:

-sleeping through the night (used to wake up at 3 am every night)

-extreme sex dive

-more focus and energy

-higher drive and competitiveness

 

Physically I haven’t noticed a ton I’m obviously a lot more cut but not like steroids. You don’t automatically get ripped you just are able to put on muscle where in the past it was harder. You notice that you don’t get as sore that next day after a hard workout tho.

Edit: Spelling

/u/RedHoodhandles: Normal t-levels lie between 270 and 1070 in average adult males.

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Post Information
Title Getting your T-Levels checked should be something that is part of completing the sidebar.
Author Sonifys
Upvotes 484
Comments 266
Date November 10, 2017 4:22 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/getting-your-t-levels-checked-should-be-something.47052
https://theredarchive.com/post/47052
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/7c23nt/getting_your_tlevels_checked_should_be_something/
Red Pill terms in post
testosteronethe red pill
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Comments

[–][deleted] 109 points110 points  (72 children) | Copy Link

Doesn’t getting T injections have adverse side effects? I’m wary of those T clinics sprouting up.

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

There are negative side effects. Testicular shrinking, life long decision, in some cases not reversible, can cause infertility.

[–][deleted] 38 points39 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man I’m bald AF already. I just shave that shit clean so I don’t look like a tall Danny Devito.

[–]djemdeeema 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I am a physician. Very few men will have abnormally low T levels. They are typically caused by testicular failure or hypogonadism. Most men with "Low T" actually have too much estrogen. Adipose tissue (fat) has an enzyme called aromatase which converts testosterone into estrogen. Fat people have higher levels of estrogen and relatively lower levels of testosterone due to it being converted so readily. You don't have low T. You're fat and have too much estrogen. Hit the gym.

[–]ioncehadsexinapool6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

So what would you say is optimal body fat percentage for testosterone?

[–]joedevice2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Optimal varies person to person as different people react differently to estrogen levels. Less is better.

[–]NakedAndBehindYou0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If fat turns testosterone into estrogen, then probably as low bodyfat as possible?

[–]SuckMyPlums25 points26 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

He said he was under 10% BF...

[–]Kolbykilla10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Most skinny guys think that. If you can’t even see a semblance of abs, you aren’t even 15% body fat.

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Was rocking a full six pack well before I got on it.

Pre TRT:

Bench: 155 3x8 Deadlifts: 225 3x8 Squat: 265 3x8

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

U said 142 lbs, not to hate on ya but I havent been 140 lbs since i was like 13 years old. Maybe for a man, being short is not conducive to high T levels since size gives status and status gives T?

[–]scarfox11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean if he's like 5 feet tall, 142 would be jacked assuming not fat. But he's probably not 5 feet tall lol.

[–]TheBloodEagleX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Only way to truly know is with a DEXA scan. You could have visceral fat (worse).

[–]bestmaleperformance 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Very few men will have abnormally low T levels

But we have less as we age correct? which is "normal" so could be 41 and have the normal testosterone of a 41 year old, but what he really wants is the testosterone of a 23 year old right?

What are the thoughts of boosting testosterone to peak younger levels as you age? many people swear by this, and still remain jacked, healthy and with a great sex life into their 70's

[–]djemdeeema 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Testosterone supplementation comes with a slew of negative side effects. There is no established normal range regarding age group. As you age we expect it to drop, but I’ve seen 70 year olds with T in the high triple digits and 20 year olds with it in the low 100s. All of them are normal.

Lose weight first before anything.

[–]FreeRadical55 points6 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

This is ironic because trying to lose weight is what dropped my T levels off a cliff (confirmed by blood tests).

Low T levels are strongly linked to large caloric deficits: https://www.anabolicmen.com/caloric-intake-testosterone/

[–]OddBuzzword1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Damn I think that's what did it for me too. I went from about 170 to 130 in like a year and a half.

[–]NakedAndBehindYou0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Did your T levels stay low after the weight loss period was over?

[–]FreeRadical52 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually just discovered this and went back to high caloric intake and working out hard core. I haven't had my testosterone tested since but based on symptoms I'm certain it has gone through the roof. Haven't felt like this in a long time.

[–]frhnwunderkid0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes! I've personally experienced this recently. I decided to do a 2 week hard cut after a lot of gaining weight since I've accumulated some fats around my midsection. After about a week of about 20% to 30% calorie deficit everyday I found myself really depressed and low energy all the time. I basically said fuck it and ate as much as I wanted to the next day and hit the weights hard.

Couple of days later I felt great again.

I think the lesson learned is: don't lose weight rapidly.

[–]dogchrist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

you don't need to focus on losing weight if you want to get jacked, you can use the weight as a lattice to build muscle on, just excercize and eat vegetables. focus on being healthy rather then "losing weight" if all your interested in is being masculine and healthy. that is if you aren't dangerously obese.

[–]duffman70500 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What are the negative side effects of injecting enough T to get your T levels WNL?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are choosing a book for reading

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I agree with you not all men suffer from low test however it is a good number to have an increase that number naturally is definitely not a bad thing. If you read my post you would see that I advocated raising your levels naturally and talking with a doctor.

However, you have accused me of being fat which I find hilarious because it couldn't be further from the truth. I will provide a picture of proof that you didn't read my post. If you did I told you I'm under 10% BF and I wasn't lying.

Pic

[–]Matt24860 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

lol you're just a wittle guy!!

[–]getRedPill0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

would appreciate further information here. For instance,

They are typically caused by testicular failure or hypogonadism.

What's testicular failure exactly, in this case.

Most men with "Low T" actually have too much estrogen.

Exactly my case here. Estrogen mildly over the expected range for a man, while test in the recommended range – tho, at the lower bound of the range, around 450.

Have been obese for years. Now not so fat as before, but overweight still. BMI of 27.

Adipose tissue (fat) has an enzyme called aromatase which converts testosterone into estrogen.

How this works exactly, if you can elaborate – better yet, how to prevent it. I've heard/read about this before, but extra information makes no harm. I've read white mushrooms helps reducing strogens, cinnamon in lowering glucose levels, which prevent storing fat.

What's your opinion on ketogenic diet, a low-carb but high-fat diet?

[–]djemdeeema 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

What's testicular failure exactly, in this case.

It's where the testicles fail to produce testosterone. It can be mechanical failure (actually damaging the testes) or from organic failure due to hormonal disruption.

Adipose tissue (fat) has an enzyme called aromatase which converts testosterone into estrogen. How this works exactly, if you can elaborate – better yet, how to prevent it. I've heard/read about this before, but extra information makes no harm. I've read white mushrooms helps reducing strogens, cinnamon in lowering glucose levels, which prevent storing fat.

It is not a process you want to prevent because aromatase plays a very important role in men as a certain level of estrogen is necessary. The problem comes when theres too much aromatase due to being obese. The best way to prevent it is to lose fat and get down to an optimal weight.

What's your opinion on ketogenic diet, a low-carb but high-fat diet?

I love them. I am on a ketogenic diet. I prescribe the diet to my diabetic patients.

[–]getRedPill0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's where the testicles fail to produce testosterone. It can be mechanical failure (actually damaging the testes) or from organic failure due to hormonal disruption.

Should I worry if at lower bound of T range.? To which specialist should I go?

Adipose tissue (fat) has an enzyme called aromatase which converts testosterone into estrogen.

This means once stored fat is reduced, more less strogen is produced, then body produces more Test.

[–]djemdeeema 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

If you are within normal range and are a little bit bigger than normal, weight loss and lifting will help correct it. There is no “normal” amount, the number is based off of population studies. If you are in the normal range, it means you are within a normal standard deviation for T level.

Losing fat doesnt produce more T, it just stops the T from being converted so there is more T available for your body to utilize.

[–]getRedPill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So insightful. Have a nice day bro.

[–]SwoLean0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Everyone, pay attention to the above post. This is a post by a proclaimed MD, who may or may not be. I'll trust his word that he is. The majority of the time you will run into this narrative from both male and female docs. It doesn't matter if they are Endo or GP. If you get denied, try someone else.

Try to steer clear of the TRT clinics. They are expensive, and may not be covered by your insurance. If you want to find a TRT friendly doc, go speak to your local pharmacy and ask them who (doctor wise) typically had TRT fills there.

Also, educate yourself. There are possible side effects like the ones [email protected] has listed. However, everything has side effects. Typically if you are a healthy male, without a family history of heart or cardiovascular issues, you will be a prime candidate for TRT. Even if you have family heart issues, you may still be a candidate for TRT.

Benefits of TRT for patients suffering form heart failure: http://jtd.amegroups.com/article/view/7236/6739

Benefits of TRT for patients with diabetes: http://www.clinicaladvisor.com/diabetes/testosterone-therapy-diabetes-benefits-androgen/article/382307/

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Good luck loosing fat if you have high estrogen.

[–]djemdeeema 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Bad excuse for poor discipline and a shitty diet and exercise regimen.

[–]daxxipro6 points7 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

This is false on every level.

Your balls only shrink on a cycle if you are surpassing your natural T levels. So in an instance like OP, with TRT, the T that is injected is only to supplement what is missing so you are naturally on a normal level. Your balls are still doing their job.

Bodybuilders, powerlifters, etc who take 500mg of test a week do have their balls shrink because of the lack of T that is naturally being produced but even then it is only temporary. When the cycle is over (aka, they stop injecting T) the testicles will start producing T again - therefor, will return back to normal size.

Edit: Infertility is an issue for long term steroid users who are exceeding an extreme amount past their natural T levels, not on TRT.

[–]Timthetiny27 points28 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Go look at the testosterone subreddit. Testicular shrinkage is normal even at physiological doses and HCG is usually prescribed to combat this.

You are wrong on every level.

[–]HugeMongo16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

the T that is injected is only to supplement what is missing so you are naturally on a normal level. Your balls are still doing their job.

Why would you talk about something you know nothing about? It's called REPLACEMENT therapy for a reason. Unless you take HCG your balls will shrink.

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I've definitely read about infertility in TRT users which is why doctors recommend HCG when trying to have a child.

Personally, I have definitely noticed a shrinking of testicles.

http://urologytimes.modernmedicine.com/urology-times/content/tags/ajay-k-nangia/testosterone-adversely-affects-fertility-some-men

[–]MillionaireSexbomb2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They get a little softer too. HCG can reduce the shrinkage and PCT can help with the recovery but I don’t believe it’s a fulll one

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your balls only shrink on a cycle if you are surpassing your natural T levels. So in an instance like OP, with TRT, the T that is injected is only to supplement what is missing so you are naturally on a normal level. Your balls are still doing their job.

Bullshit. Go educate yourself because posting here on that matter again.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Any exogenous test will Down regulate and shut you down period

[–]ZeusTheTrueGod0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Almost everything can be prevented or detected early.

1) You may not need to use T injection, I'm on HCG 1500 IU every other day and this gives me T of 1800 ng/dL for last 4 months. Guess how I'm feeling! 2) HCG as small as 500 IU every 7 days guarantees that your eggs do not get small. 3) Fertility skyrockets on HCG + T 4) Water retention, high E2, hematocrit should be checked for, as well as gyno, but that is absolutely avoidable.

[–]pussyaficianado6 points7 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

As above said plus potentially increased risk of prostate enlargement, heart problems, blood pressure.

[–]Westernhagen12 points13 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

No. Those alleged risks have been disproven. In fact, low T is associated with a higher heart attack risk.

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-07/uotm-uss063014.php

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-02/bumc-ttp021317.php

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2015-10/uotm-uss100515.php

[–]Systral6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

There is a difference between t injections and naturally high t

[–]Westernhagen10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

All those articles refer to testosterone therapy (i.e., injections) and show that TRT does not create additional risk of heart attack or prostate cancer.

[–]ftdrain-3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Test kills, want proof? Eunuchs live on average 10-15 years more than their peers.

[–]Westernhagen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That "proof" is unconvincing. It is the product of historical studies of eunuchs in Korea and China, not actual medical research. Does not control for behavior.

If you are on TRT and do other things that prolong lifespan (diet, exercise, elimination of risky behaviors) then you have nothing to worry about.

[–]yomo86[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes and no. T-levels are maintained by your testicles and a small amount in the andrenal region of your body.

Taking T to substitute a deficiency is only a viable option without side-effects if and only if your body will not produce an amount deemed to be sufficient, no matter what.

Let's say a doctor tells you, you need T-injections.

The best way is to try to eat clean, exercise and supplement zinc, vit D and C, which is a standard advice anyway.

Only if those fail significantly you should pursue the option of T-injections. While reaching a certain amount of T is beneficial substituting your T-levels for a prolonged time will kill any capacity to reach said amount naturally as your body grows accustomed the substitution.

[–]real-scot0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yes, getting t injections CAN not will make your body stop producing it for life meaning you're on the injections for life.

I had a problem with ed and this was one of the options the doctor gave me. It was either that or I find a way to increase it naturally.

I took zinc + vit c effervescent once per day and within two weeks my troubles were gone, changed my diet to to seafood and vegetables

[–]fromthecrypt81 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I too have noticed that zinc especially improves something.. Like I havent lifted in a few weeks now, and simultaneously have started zinc a month or two ago. And i notice I have not lost as much gains as I normally would have if I didnt lift for a while. Hard to tell if its the zinc that has improved my t levels. No major increase in sex drive or other t related positives though.

[–]ioncehadsexinapool0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

How much zinc? I️ have 50 mg tablets but I️ break them in half

[–]real-scot1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

15-20mg per day should be fine, too much zinc per day can also be very bad for you

[–]BusterVadge0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Zinc, cleaning up my diet, and lifting harder are the only things that have helped for me. I have tried ALL of the "natural boosters" and none of them worked for me.

But adding zinc really did make a difference. ATM I'm experimenting with adding a bit of selenium and magnesium. The jury is still out on that one (until I get blood drawn).

[–]RedHoodhandles38 points39 points  (39 children) | Copy Link

For anyone wondering because OP didn't post it. Normal t-levels lie between 270 and 1070 in average adult males.

[–]scruffys_enigma82 points83 points  (33 children) | Copy Link

Seems like a tremendous range

[–]anuddahshoah30 points31 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

avg test declines as you age, test levels from every age group is now "healthy" for every age group

ie 90yo with 270 ng/dL is "healthy" for adult males and healthy for their age group (normal) 22 yo male with 270 ng/dL is "healthy" for adult males but missing 50-80% of his test for his age group

[–]BobbyPeru7 points8 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

This is the part doctors often overlook. My T level was 425, which is a bit low for my age (close to 50).

I went to see a urologist, and he wouldn’t even consider T unless it was in the 200 range.

[–]DamnDirty_Ape 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Tell him you are having trouble with sex drive, energy levels, mood, joint aches etc.

I'm 49, was in the 300s, and insisted my doc put me on or else I'd go find one that would. He gave me no problems and now I'm at 980 ng/dl from 200mg per week. Feel like a boss again. I also take a small amount of aromitase inhibitor to keep estrogen levels at bay.

[–]OddBuzzword2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm 19 and mine is in the lower 300s... Is that really bad? My endocrinologist didn't say anything about it.

[–]cBIGONE0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Can everyone take this aromitase inhibitor Anyway? Would that help without going on TRT?

[–]fastnail0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

DamnDirty_Ape, What Aromitase inhibitor do you take and doses?

[–]Noveno 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm 27 years old and those are my T-Levels: 4.90 ng/ml (2.41 - 8.27). I don't know how bad or good they are actually.

[–]DamnDirty_Ape 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

4.90 ng/ml

Around 500 is not too bad. Not ideal, but far from shitty. You want to be in the 700+ range ideally. You are in a tough spot because no doc will write you a script if you are in near 500.

It might be possible to get tested again in 6 months, and this time don't eat much or sleep for 2 days straight.. that might really tank your levels temporarily. Not saying that's ideal, but there is an outside chance it could work.

if I was in your shoes, I'd focus on eating clean with plenty of healthy fats, getting great sleep, lifting weights + proper recovery time, zinc supplements, a bit of time out in the sun etc. All of those can help boost your natural levels a bit. Not going to put you in the 800s, but might get you into the mid to high 5s

[–]Noveno 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm in a very decent shape, I workout, I eat healthy. But two years ago I stopped progressing and even had a couple problems in bed that occurs ocassionally. I'm blasting a steroid cycle in a few days, and I'll take tests after the cycle. I definetely was more energized 3 years ago than nowadays.

[–]DamnDirty_Ape 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Wait to get tested a few weeks after your stop your last dose. The half life of various testosterone esters ranges from a few hours to a about a week or so. You want to let it wash out of your system, but before normal production has bounced back.

Just be on alert if you come back with a super low number, and then your doc things something serious is going on :)

[–]anothdae1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So what doctor overlooked what?

[–]asotranq17 points18 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Normally people never do any physical activity that would benefit from higher testosterone. There's not much benefit to being at the higher end in modern society other than it being more selected for, everything associated with higher test is attractive to women.

[–]scruffys_enigma9 points10 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

What did you mean by there not being much benefit? Isn't the benefit the reason why women are selecting for it?

[–]asotranq5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Talk like that will get people demanding your head on a stick in the real world, sadly some obvious truths aren't allowed to be said or even thought about.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian9 points10 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

No obvious benefits for normal non RPd people who will just be themselves and find their one true love. Women selecting on test related features and behaviors is not a widely accepted truth.

[–]scruffys_enigma0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not widely accepted but surely the fact that it's happening anyway is a core RP tenant.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is my point. We know but normal people mostly don't so for them the benefit is not obvious.

Is what I typed really that hard to understand? Is this a non-native speaker miscommunication or something?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I cant believe you're endorsed. This is B U L L S H I T. Virtually everything people on this sub aspire to be is biologically speaking HIGH T.

[–]hot_rats_5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You didn't read his comment carefully. He's not saying traits associated with high T don't attract more women more effectively than traits associated with low T. (Although there are studies indicating that women's preferences can vary quite a bit in this respect depending on where they are in their cycle.) He's saying your average person doesn't need to exhibit these characteristics in order to successfully reproduce. Otherwise monogamy wouldn't exist, and only alphas would reproduce which we can all clearly see is not the case.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you want to attract women rather than be their safe option by the wall, then sure, be average, be beta Billy. It's okay to touch less than 10 pairs of tits throughout your entire sexually active life. Am I right guys? Everybody wins, right?

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Even you read it incorrectly. I said it's not obvious for normal BP people as in they don't realise attractiveness is directly influenced by testosterone.

Not that there are no obvious benefits for normal people.

[–]hot_rats_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not that there are no obvious benefits for normal people.

Well then while we're misreading each other, I didn't imply this either. If my point was different than yours then fair enough, but I believe it still stands.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMarsupian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I said it's not obvious for BP people. They don't know every attractive feature and behavior is influenced by testosterone.

Learn to read.

[–]azonian915 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

it is. i wonder if OP works for a certain pharmaceutical...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

However your Testosterone binds to proteins in your blood stream so it isn't absorbed by your body right away. Only ~2% is is free in your blood stream, and it's this Testosterone that is active in your body. These two numbers (total t, free t) may not align; One can be high and the other low. Free T is just as important if not more than total

[–]king_of_the_potato_p6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol well I can tell you as an example the try guys from buzzfeed (only know this from another site making fun of them) their t scores were all under 350, some as low as mid to low 200's.

Mean while Im a blue collar, likes to hunt, fish and lift type with nerd hobbies mixed in and my last T score test was a few years ago, it was 850~.

[–]SpecialSpnk9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Why does not one person talk about testosterone injections not approved by a physician. Cycling is prob something many members do that is not often talked about

[–]SouthernFit11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Proper hormone balance will fix so many issues its not even funny.

[–]showerdudes90 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

How do you balance your hormones properly then?

[–]yasma9910 points11 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

I was diagnosed with low T. Around 150-200 in the 3 tests I took. My doctor didn't want to give me Testosterone though because my sex drive and ed were both fine. Didn't care about any other symptoms. I started taking 110MG a week of Test Enanthate myself 9 months ago. Easily the most life changing thing I've ever done.

I sleep through the night now. My day to day drive for life is through the roof. My strength gains are crazy. My shoulders/traps/lats seemed to explode in the first month. I get morning wood. I can take command of situations better and have a clearer mind. If anyone has ANY questions regarding this process ask away.

[–]OmnidirectionalMap2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I have been considering getting my levels checked for some time. What were your symptoms like before taking Test Enathate? I'm really curious because in terms of puberty and gaining weight/sexually I did not develop well. I weighed around 90lbs when I was 16 and didn't grow like the other men in the family (dad, brothers all 6'+, me 5'6" might be the milkmans son). I've reigned in my diet to be clean, cut out sugars, exercise 4 days a week with lifting and cardio, get 8-9 hours of sleep a night and I still feel so tired. My mind is becoming increasingly slower over time and I just can't keep an erection. If I see a good looking woman in public I just don't have the sexual thoughts anymore like I did a few years prior. Even something such as porn can barely get me erect anymore. What was your experience before and after taking testosterone?

[–]yasma992 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Get tested.

I would have guessed I had decent testosterone. I went for fertility stuff and they measured my test/sperm count as we couldn't get pregnant.

My testosterone was super low but my sperm count was through the roof so they didn't care at all. I also still had a very good sex drive and erections were fine. I couldn't sleep though, I was depressed, lethargic, low drive etc. I was lifting 5x a week and eating well though and was plateauing with strength gains when I felt I should have been progressing.

After taking it everything has changed. I'd honestly only take it for the sleep if that's all it did. I actually sleep through the night now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Just go get tested. It's not a big deal. Best case scenario you know you're healthy, other best case scenario you fix something that's wrong and improve your life. Can't lose.

[–]NiceTryDisaster1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What's the ideal T number for men in the 20-30 age number?

[–]yasma991 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Naturally or boosted? I'd say like 500-600 would be ideal naturally.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Average in this range for total T is in the mid 700's. But there is such a plethora of other hormones that affect how you feel and can suppress the effects of testosterone that you need the whole picture to see what your body needs. Estrogen, prolactin, free t, WBC and rbc, SHBG, albumin, tsh. Just go get full blood work if you want to know. The (low?) testosterone sub has a good sidebar to educate yourself on it

[–]Frietjeman0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Test Enanthate

This all you used, or other supplements too?

Don’t you have to keep you estrogen in check when boosting test?

[–]yasma991 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I HAVE aramidex on hand, some weeks i'll take 1/4 of a pill per week. My bloods had my estrogen a little high but still in reference range. When you're only taking 100ish test enanthate a week you shouldn't need an AI.

[–]NotMeAtAll2091 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

47/M here.

I've been on TRT for the past 1+ years, and on low-dose HGH for the past 8 months, so I'll throw in my two cents. I'm done having kiddos, so less worried about some of the side effects.

I've been through a pretty massive transformation over the past 22 months or so. I had dropped 50 lbs. and gotten my diet and lifting on point before starting TRT. So freaking glad I did.

That said, TRT had a major definite improvement on several areas of my life. Having a few months on just the TRT, it pretty clearly had the following effects (in my opinion):

  1. Better results from my workouts. Stronger. Increased muscle mass.
  2. Increased confidence and feelings of dominance.
  3. Lowered my voice, in a good way.
  4. Increased libido.
  5. Even with HCG, my balls did get a bit smaller. This is a small price to pay for me, given the overall benefits to my sexual health.
  6. I swear higher testosterone makes women "want to be near me" in ways they don't quite understand. And I believe higher testosterone levels may even increase a woman's liklihood to orgasm. Not humble bragging, but women want to be physically near me and they just orgasm much more frequently for me than before TRT/HGH, and obviously especially before my transformation. This is a BELIEF on my part.
  7. I think it has given me a stronger chin? The weight loss obviously contributes too.
  8. Had to add Anastrozole (AI inhibitor), as my estrogen got out of whack when I first started. No biggie.

Then, I added HGH to the mix. All of this through a local men's clinic. This stuff is like magic I swear. Takes a while to notice, but I believe it has given the following additional benefits (again, in my opinion/observation):

  1. More frequent morning wood.
  2. Leaned me out. My body fat is definitely in the single digits these days. Striations on my shoulders. Visible six-pack. Insanely vascular now due to low body fat, and some genetics. Strong jawline. People in the gym really comment on how lean I've gotten, and especially when I'm pumped from a workout. As a 47/M, even lifting hard 6 days a week, I don't think there's any way I could be as lean as I am without HGH.
  3. General feeling of well-being. Not sure how else to describe it. I just feel really great.

So, other than some ball shrinkage, I don't think I've had any negative effects from TRT or HGH, other than to my pocketbook. This is also medically supervised and above board through a local men's clinic. I get blood tests done every three months, and keep my test levels around 1000.

Again I've put in a ton of work in the gym and with my diet, before even starting this. But adding TRT and HGH just massively improved the results I get from my work.

I honestly plan to stay on this for life, as I believe it improves the quality of my life in more ways than just the physical benefits I've listed above.

Hope this is useful. I obviously recommend it for people my age that may be experiencing low T. I have no opinion on whether its good for younger folks, especially if they plan to have kids in their future. Just sharing my experience here.

So far I've lost 75 lbs. My waist has gone from 46 to 34. I was literally a dadbod loser before starting this journey, and now my teenaged sons tell me I'm "jacked", which is high praise to me. Happy to post some before/after pics if there's interest.

Back to lurking now. LOL. Cheers.

[–]purplecabbage2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

what was your t before you started TRT? I'm 44 and have ~375 t. Doc says I'm normal too. I feel tired, ed problems, lower libido, etc. But I'm fit and strong. Doc says might be due to stress w/ divorce (current), aging, work, etc.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Did you get your other hormones tested as well as total T? If you send me your blood work I can give you my semi-educated opinion

[–]purplecabbage0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for the offer. I didn't ask for other ones, like what? Estrogen? Cortisol? Seritonin?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

First time I asked my GP to have my testosterone tested, they only tested total T. It came back at 320 and my doc told me I was "fine". I was 22 for reference, IMO 320 is not "fine" for being 22.

I read up on it a bunch and got blood work again through a men's clinic. You really need the whole hormone panel to see the whole picture of what's going on, total T alone is not enough. What you need tested is:

Total T Free T (what's actually active in your body, ~2% of total usually) Estradiol (sometimes E2, this is free estrogen) Metabolic panel (for blood cell count and other things) Prolactin TSH SHBG Albumin

Optionally a full thyroid panel (I had mine done because my first results showed high Thyroid Stimulating Hormone TSH which is indicative of a low thyroid, which indirectly causes low T production) This panel includes T3 and T4, thyroid hormones.

Sorry if formatting is off I'm on mobile.

Edit: call in and get a copy of your lab results if you don't have them, it's not worth taking your general practitioners word for it and suffering for months/years longer like I did.

[–]TheBloodEagleX0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Hey, I got mine tested three times, quite low. Would like your opinion too.

[–]scandicock1 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Yes, testosterone will make you more attractive and release pheromones. I recommend you google: "trt attraction" or "test cycle pheromones" and read about like thousands of reports from guys all over the world experiencing it.

Women are programmed to be attracted to guys with high test, its unconsious, they will rationalise it as "him being cute" or whatever. I believe naturals are just guys with naturally high testosterone levels.

I went from having absolutely zero girls interested, to having new girls approaching me every night when im out at the club, by doing testosterone.

May I ask how much testosterone you inject per week?

[–]scandicock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also post before afters please!

[–]NotMeAtAll2091 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Haha I knew it! Definitely believe that. I can just feel it. Plus my transformation has happened fairly quickly, so I am acutely aware of how differently I am treated by women these days.

I take 200mg/week. On the high side for TRT, but arrived at this dosage after some experimentation and happy with it.

[–]scandicock1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I suggest you try a testosterone cycle of 1g a week some time, then head out to he bar. Be prepared to get flocked by females like flies to shit, Im warning ya :P

[–]NotMeAtAll2091 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I love the way women look at me right now lol. Not sure I'm ready for that next level shit. My mind does wonder what might be possible sometimes, but I'm so happy with my current and continued improvement, I'm just gonna stick with my current plan.

I'm assuming 1g was sarcastic, but I've at least wondered what a blast would be like, or Tren or whatever lol.

[–]scandicock1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Not sarcastic at all, 1g and u will blow teh fuck up and some girls will come up to you and wanna bring you home ASAP, if alcohol is mixed into it.

On TREN, you will be an absolute sex machine and extremely attractive to women, Its some biological shit with pheromones or sexual energy or something like that.

Oh, Im interested in before after pictures btw, so feel free to share

[–]NotMeAtAll2091 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

After my personal experience on TRT doses, I believe all the things you say lol. If a little helps this much, then wouldn't a lot help that much more? Haha.

WARNING: face-blurring is apparently disturbing when viewed on PC. Proceed at your own risk. Pics: https://imgur.com/a/GlsvS

[–]scandicock1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yea thats quite an insane difference, from fake-smiling office worker to robust lumber jack ready to jackhammer young sluts better than their same-age boys :)

[–]NotMeAtAll2091 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Too funny. Thanks man. How old are you btw?

[–]mylittlehandgun0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

im on week 6 of 350 mg test and Im still unable to "game" girls nor do I have girls being "attracted" to me. I really wanted it to be true for myself when I read all the shit about pheremones.

A few things tho. I dont put myself in situations with girls in proximity and Im taking 1 mg dutasteride/ day. I believe DHT is a much more important hormone for masculinity than test and since Im "inhibiting" it, I dont see its benefits.

[–]showerdudes90 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You wont release any pheromones when you ejaculate, go a week without ejaculation and see that shit happen

[–]scandicock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If u kill DHT u kill ur pheromone outpout, studies on goats and rats showed this.

[–]showerdudes90 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is the exact thing I experienced on nofap, when I had not ejaculated for 2 weeks I got women staring at me out of nowhere, giving me deer in the headlight - looks, i could not understand it, but it was purely pheromones doing that from high T

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I'd remove the face pic in the album. People are crazy especially toward men on this sub. Nice transition tho man.

[–]Ihatemoi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey awesome everything about your TRT and HGH intake! However I wanted to know more about the side effects of having children? and those of bodybuilders with weird nipples? or bloated stomach? (I am 25 yo, 5´9", 166 pounds, been lifting since 18yo)

I guess I am experiencing low T levels, I have been depressed, have never felt dominance, I have like no drive to talk to people, I am strong, but not THAT strong. I want to know more about this. I would like to have children someday (probably). So if thats the case I would like to supplement with this stuff, I also have huuuuge problems for sleeping everyday.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

T level tests are pretty sketchy. If you have symptoms of low testosterone then you should get it checked and treated but just the blood test is not all that good.

Rationale: One single T Test could be easily thrown off by a bunch of things- something like an energy drink can bring down your Testosterone levels by 50ish% for a short time. If I were to modify OP's point, I would get multiple blood tests done across a few weeks, take the average and go from there.

Source: https://www.t-nation.com/supplements/tip-testosterone-blood-tests-are-garbage (if you're curious, the writer of this article has a degree in molecular biology)

[–]MillionaireSexbomb10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Some people crash theirs by not sleeping, drinking a shit ton of alcohol and doing other stuff to fool the doctors.

[–]overrule6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. The main reason is that testosterone levels vary so much and the test is only a snapshot. Don't go on a fishing expedition for lab values. They're calibrated so that 95% of healthy people will have a "normal value."

That means there's a 1 in 20 chance that abnormal readings are chance and do not reflect an underlying disease. With the amount of lab values that can be ordered, chances are everyone will have at least one abnormal value.

Again, get checked out if you have symptoms, but there's very little benefit and potential harm in getting a full workup when you don't have any specific issues.

[–]Westernhagen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If I were to modify OP's point, I would get multiple blood tests done across a few weeks, take the average and go from there.

Yes. I had three tests done.

Wouldn't take the average though. If two are below normal, and one is normal, so the average is "low normal" that might lead you to avoid TRT which would not help you.

[–]dalicatatonia13 points14 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Problem is the huge range is a fucking joke and it doesn't mean shit. I was tested and around 300 too. Doctor said I was in range and he wouldn't do shit. Oh cool. I'm half the median but that's normal somehow. You feel like shit? That's normal. Fuck off

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

I fucking despise doctors. Baby boomer generation sucks their balls it's disgusting. They think doctors are gods and refuse to do any research themselves. Fuck off is right.

[–]acetylcysteine3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

a number of male boomer docs take test themselves.

[–]djemdeeema 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

And what advanced degree do you hold?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No advanced degree. Look, I'm not saying I have it all figured out. Doctors are uber smart people but also can be unwilling to admit fault. A dangerous combination. My last doc told me alcohol was a stimulant and I shouldn't drink it near bed because it would keep me up. She also was dead set I was on steroids when, yeah I lift, but I'm no means THAT yolked. Idk maybe I have just had bad experiences. Also in this society if you have an "advanced" degree you're automatically a god and can do no wrong. I think both of our ideologies should meet in the middle

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

deleted What is this?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks!!! I guess I just always thought it was weird as it knocks me out. But cool to know!

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Doctors are uber smart people

I disagree. When I was at school, the 'uber smart' kids went into math and science, the second-raters went into engineering and law, and the third-raters went into medicine.

There certainly are 'uber smart' people in medicine, but they're mostly the ones figuring out how to do brain transplants or whatever is the new shiny these days. They're not the kind of doctors most people run into.

Actually, thinking about it, the smartest kid I knew who went into medicine only lasted a few years after graduation before quitting because it was so boring.

[–]WetWeatherMaster16 points17 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Are the doctors open to such suggestions? By modern standards you're within the normal range.

[–]anuddahshoah18 points19 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"modern standards" now include healthy test from 16 year olds to 90 year olds all being considered healthy for an 18 year old male

you should have test for your age range, Buzzfeed tier soyboys have 90yo test levels but are considered "healthy"

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

It’s not easy by any means. However, if your primary doctor isn’t very receptive to the idea you can see an endocrinologist. They’re just really hard to find.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsqerl14 points15 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Endocrinologist's also are wary of prescribing TRT for quality of life improvements citing the same risks as your physician. Finding a doctor or endo that will prescribe it are rare indeed YMMV. They commonly state that you're within a "normal" range (~250-1200) and repeat the concerns even if you're willing to accept the risks. Frustrating to say the least. Living near a large city should provide more options and favorable outcome unless you're fortunate to have an agreeable doc/endo.

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I am very lucky to have the doctor that I have now. Especially since I live in rural area. I did end up having to see him 3 times before he put me on TRT. It's not easy by any means.

[–]Chefkeaton8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I am so jealous. My last test recorded 290, and my doctor still refused an endrocrinologist. Then I went and submitted a request, and the request got denied. DO NOT USE KAISER.

[–]hot_rats_4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most TRT docs are independent practices that don't accept insurance precisely because establishment medicine is still very much anti-TRT. As with most things in life if you have the money it is not difficult to get (there are companies that will prescribe over the internet that basically don't turn anyone down), but if you don't you're most likely SOL till you do.

[–]TheBloodEagleX0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Got it tested three times, even with an endo, each below 250 and still didn't want to do anything about it. I'm not sure what option is left.

[–]Endorsed Contributorsqerl0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

From a practical side, take action on raising T naturally. Red meats, lifting, sleep, etc. While doing that, it's time to go hunting. Start calling other endo's and find someone willing to prescribe. While doing that, revisit your doc and tell him you'll get androgel off the dark web and he can either prescribe it so you're safe or you'll self medicate and he can pick up the pieces. It's best to work on the delivery of that message so he doesn't think you're threatening him. Continue to read up on T, side effects, pros, cons, etc. Being well informed helps them understand your level of commitment.

Having read other guys stories, it's an uphill battle but it can happen, just keep knocking.

[–]1htbf4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm in Canada and wouldn't know who to go.

[–]acetylcysteine0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

family doctor. mention you want blood work for test due to xxx symptoms. you want the 3 types. get a referral for life labs. do your bloodwork fasted in the am. sign up for email. get the bloodwork results emailed to yourself and your doctor. followup with doctor.

[–]1htbf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't have a family doctor yet :/

[–]Westernhagen5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

By modern standards you're within the normal range.

The "normal range" includes obese schlubs and old men. 320 is "normal" if you're over 60. A guy who is 22 should not have to live with that. Indeed, a guy who is 60 should not have to live with that.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Take a look at this article,http://www.artofmanliness.com/2013/01/16/normal-testosterone-levels/

Sources a few studies done on testosterone and age ranges.

[–]bonusfruit3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I wonder why such a drastic range is considered normal. How can a guy who's level is 270 and a guys whose level is 1000 both be at healthy t levels. That looks like a huge difference

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The other response was right, but I wanted to add that most doctors take the "normal" range and make it synonymous with an "optimal" range. Really anything in the lower third of that range is suboptimal and affecting your life/masculinity most likely. (My subjective opinion).

[–]lankybob4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is a great post. I am glad someone is talking about low T. You have no idea how this simple test has changed my life forever. Maybe not just this test, more like the karotype test. But this test opened my eyes on how low T can affect a man. And how taking testosterone has made my like 500% better. And getting a free and total testosterone tests should be free when doing your yearly physicals. It is part of your well being. But I just want to applaud 👏 your post. I could write a book on how checking my testosterone levels changed my life and the steps that changed my entire outlook on life.

[–]binarynightmare3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Can anyone point to a reliable at home testing kit?

[–]grewapair2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No such thing. Has to be tested in a lab. There are many web sites that will provide a prescription for such a test and then you go get your blood drawn from a reputable lab.

I would NEVER do a blood draw at a doctor who specializes in TRT. You're almost guaranteed to get a low T score from them.

However, you can google symptoms of low T and see if you have some. If not, don't waste your $$.

[–]anothdae1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would NEVER do a blood draw at a doctor who specializes in TRT. You're almost guaranteed to get a low T score from them

This is like saying that you should never go to an oncologist because all the patients have cancer.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I almost totally agree with your premise, but I would pose that it's a test to take more for men who are having trouble with ED, sex drive, gym progress, and other symptoms of low T.

[–]Systral2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly , there is no need to test if you have high libido for instance.

[–]Westernhagen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is like any other health stat that you should periodically check. Just like you want to know what your blood sugar, blood iron, and cholesterol levels are, at least once a year, you should also check your T levels once a year. You should check your cholesterol even if you're not having any symptoms of high cholesterol; you should check your T even if you're not having any symptoms of low T.

Furthermore, don't just rely on the doc to tell you what it means (he'll say, "yeah it's fine" no matter what the number is), you have to see the number yourself and know what it means.

[–]postreformedpua3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Funny you should post this now. I've just got my T levels checked and they are at 346, I'm in my mid-thirties. I'm now trying to decide if I should go through the process of convincing my doctor to put me on TRT, or just buying some because they are legal here.

[–]Sh0stakovich2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Where are you? I didn't think it was legal anywhere.

[–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Being supervised by a doctor who knows his shit is definetly better. If at that level you have to convince him to get further tests done and eventually put you on TRT, he does not know his shit.

Go find an appropriate doctor, or educate yourself properly. You'll have to get some more bloodwork done and there can also be sideeffects, that you will have to look out for.

Go to r.testosterone and read the wiki for a start.

[–]gaki1233 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What matters is FREE testosterone not TOTAL. Stop sprouting bullshit please

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Both are important pieces to the puzzle, but I do agree that free T is overlooked when it is what your body is actually utilizing.

[–]scandicock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope, not neccesarily true.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A Man's Guide To Testosterone Replacement Therapy | Illimitable Men

[–]NoBsMan9 points10 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Related to T-levels. Last weekend I was catching up with a friend of mine, who is lesbian, and we started talking about intermittent fasting. She asked me why I was doing and I said that increases my testosterone levels and other benefits. She then responded that men don’t need testosterone anymore because we don’t have fights like cavemen. I was shocked! Then I had to explain that a lot of men are depressed because of low levels of T and she had no idea about it. Since I started with redpill, I’ve always read about how society is trying to kill masculinity in favour of feminism, so what she said reminded me of that.

[–]Westernhagen24 points25 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Talking about masculinity and male problems with a lesbian? Sheesh. You might as well talk about space travel with a deepwater crab.

[–]fubarcapitalist5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’ve had several women tell me the world is better off if men have low T levels.

FFS

[–]acetylcysteine4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

same experience with most female doctors. it's almost as if they like the control over a low t male.

[–]HugeMongo9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not only depression, it's actually very unhealthty for men to have low test.

[–]fastnail1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A rabid lesbian feminist and a friend Mmmmmmmm!

[–]Livestr0nger__2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Should also be noted that the website privateMdlabs and any other private lab work is illegal in 5 states. I live in NJ one of the restricted states and what I did was use a friends address from Florida and drove to a near by state that allowed testing(CT).

[–]scandicock2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, you wont become sterile. There are studies on thousands of men who was on testosterone for several years, every one of them got their sperm back after discontinuation. It takes a while, 3-6 months usually, but it comes back, so no worries.

[–]1nrokchi2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Testosterone has been shown to improve cardiovascular health, more normal sleep cycles, more lean mass, lower amounts of belly fat, and greater focus. If we are going to believe in biology, this part is crucial. It is as important in optimizing yourself as going to the gym (which, in turn, increases testosterone levels!).

[–]JimiJons2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

IllimitableMen has a good guide to TRT on his blog.

[–]iLLprincipLeS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

From the bright minds over at Pew Research comes this chart based on European countries and their different degrees of willing to accept Muslims and Jews as family members. The Hajnal Line divide remains fairly clear, but even more, this list reflects historical experience.

The countries which are more open to diversity are those which have experienced less of it in recent years. The Baltics struggle with Russian diversity and Eastern Europe has had its share of ethnic and religious wars, not to mention that countries occupied by Communists experienced Russian and other diversity. Now that they are out of that ideological ghetto, they have no desire to return.

On the other hand, wealthy countries where openness creates business success because it encourages social popularity have a higher stated approval for diversity. For them, diversity is still new and more exotic, but even more, they welcome the idea of more people to participate in the economy. Diversity still means success there.

As the West begins to realize what neo-Communist has done to it, expect this to change, but only when the economic benefits for supporting diversity die, much as they did in the East, with the failure of the system that is subsidizing them. The Communists did not have our thriving markets for tax-and-spend exploitation, but they ran out of money, and so will we.

[–]punkrockfishboy2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I thought 600 was normal 20ish year old, even for a guy who just sits around and plays video games. I was way off. I need to get on that privatemdlabs site and check my levels. I work out, and eat healthier, but still get angry and horny. Maybe it's healthy.

[–]iLLprincipLeS 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

If you had low levels you wouldn't get angry and horny, you'd get depressed. 600 is fine for a guy who just sits around and plays video games.

[–]Cenki2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I found a tumor in my head by having low TST level of 210 ngdl. After shrinking the tumor with medication I temporarily had a hypertestosterone of 1550ngdl for a few months, and then it went down to 650ish over time. Sometimes it can help you find more major issues.

[–]thassidus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

What was your experience of hypertestosterone?

[–]Cenki0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't feel much different then normal. Maybe slightly more energetic and libido but it is way less noticeable then having it lower and going back to normal, where you feel like you've gone from being a weak worthless immobile lazy person to a superhero who can't get enough excercise in :p I trained for 2 years to do obstacle racing and lifting before learning of the disease and tumor and my third year of training was hilariously more of a jump.

[–]iLLprincipLeS2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's something truly pathetic about a social order that depends upon absolute monopoly control over public opinion formation merely to survive.

[–]berryfarmer12 points13 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Throwing in a mention of the iodine protocol (r iodide) and boron (r AltBoron) supplementation for radical Testosterone enhancement.

Testosterone ain't gonna do shit for you if it's all bound up by globulins (SHBG), getting converted to estrogen, or not being produced in the first place. Keep your micronutrients supplied or suffer the consequences.

Also, here's one to really get your cognitive dissonance going -- vegans have higher testosterone https://nutritionfacts.org/2013/02/12/less-cancer-in-vegan-men-despite-more-testosterone/

Vegan half-vegan, doesn't make a shit, you're eating estrogen when you eat meat https://nutritionfacts.org/2016/09/13/estrogen-animal-products/ plants don't make estrogen, and xenoestrogens (in soy) for example are counteracted by phytonutrients in the plant

I'm sure this info boogers up your day and "feelings", and you'll argue it till the cows come home because of your emotional attachment to your pepperoni hot pockets, but throw all that aside and view the situation logically to get gains

But really. That (r AltBoron) though https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4712861/

[–]2comment 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

This is very simple. The vast majority of testerone in the human male should be from his testicles, not from his diet. The testicles, like any other human part, is highly dependent on the nutrients and oxygen in the blood being delivered for maximum function. In a general fashion, your vascular system is your health.

Depriving any part of this tree blood flow can have multiple effects. It's not just "heart health" or to protect against strokes... there is thoughts going on that so many people have lower back pain because the inbetween discs are not getting nourished on the modern diet - there are no direct blood vessels to them so they depend on osmosis of nearby vessels for nutrient and those vessel are among the smallest (read: easiest to clog) in the body. It's even theorized that tinnitus (ringing in the ears) can occur when the blood vessels are getting blocked, indeed old-age deafness might not just be aging but bad diet. Other populations with better diet have been observed with much better hearing late into life. Truly from the tips of the toes to the top of the hairs.

What is indisputable is that humans directly have 160 million years of herbivorous ancestry behind them in evolution. Great apes are all herbivorous or nearly so with some single digit insect intake. The biggest strongest creatures on the earth were always herbivorous: gorillas, elephants, rhinos, and it held up in the past: Brontosaurus.

Unlike pure obligate carnivores who cannot be induced from atherosclerosis just via cholesterol (eating unlimited eggs) or saturated fat (fatty meat), humans are very different. Most of the science (around 90%) that contradicts this view is funded by Egg and/or Dairy Industries. Most of the ways to design studies to confound have been well understood, some methods still used today to hide correlation have been understood since the 1970s.

People on the board are scared of phytoestrogens but the strongest actual estrogen source is the standard diet is in dairy, as it's from recently impregnated or actually pregnant (genetically modified) cows. The strongest source of phytoestrogens is not in soy but in beer. However, unless you are a hardcore beer alcoholic, you'd have to handle the hops directly and continuously for an effect. Besides all that, body fat excretes estrogen,which will have a big effect on a high% bodyfat person.

Since bodyweight is not typically reflected as a matter of counting calories irl, but the average calorie density of food a person ingests, people on plant-based diets tend to be lower bodyfat.

If people want to know why men have erectile dysfunction earlier and earlier, as well as low testosterone, I submit it's the standard western diet, where cheese consumption has gone from around 3lbs/year a century ago to over 35 lbs today, and skyrocketing chicken intake has doubled overall meat consumption since the 1950s. I'm sure non-cheese dairy increased as well and fish too.

[–]1dongpal-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

if you go full vegan you are missing a lot of nutrients. also, phytoestrogen is not the same as just estrogen.

[–]2comment 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

All nutrients from the meat you eat came from plants or bacteria in soil. All protein you consume came from plants/bacteria, there is not an animal alive that can pluck nitrogen from the air and create amino acids. An animal, is at best, a middle-man of nutrition. Animals can, however, supply you with unwanted hormones and bioaccumulation of heavy metals and such.

On the contrary, if you were to go fully meat-only, you would be missing out on a ton of phyto-nutrients. There is an estimated 10s of thousands of these, most as of yet undocumented and no official RDA. All 'phyto' means is 'plant'.

Phyto-estrogen, in general, seems to be several thousand times weaker than actual estrogen in terms of estrogen-like effects. On the contrary, it seems to bind with estrogen receptors and block actual estrogen getting through when estrogen would be bad.

also, phytoestrogen is not the same as just estrogen.

I know. Do you realize that that video and it's part 2 is very pro-vegan?

[–]1dongpal0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

so you dont miss any nutrient when you go full vegan? not a single supplement needed? and if you eat a lot of phytoestrogen then you actually have estrogen blocker in your body?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You chose a book for reading

[–]RedPillD0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So your comment has me researching boron supplementation. I noticed in some product reviews people are complaining that the boron pill contains B2. Do you know anything about why they want their boron pills to not have any B2?

[–]berryfarmer2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Riboflavin is a component of the iodine protocol, it's easier to control dosage in a separate pill. I'd never buy riboflavin integrated into Boron

Some people take 30+mg Boron per day, some much more. It excretes easily

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thoughts on soy having feminising effects at bodybuilding dosages?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah I learned that vegans often have higher T levels, so I've started looking into plant sources of protein- they're harder to eat for sure, but I don't like the idea of having high estrogen levels

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

it is probably because they are thin.

[–]anothdae-5 points-4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

so I've started looking into plant sources of protein- they're harder to eat for sure, but I don't like the idea of having high estrogen levels

You are probably going about this completely backward.

Soy kills T levels. Have fun finding easy plant protein that don't have soy.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The estrogen in animals is a lot more potent than the soy estrogen- but no, i won't be using soy. It's pretty much useless as a protein source, or so says my studying. (I'll post source later, I'm on mobile)

Plant protein: I found black bean pasta that are 25 grams of protein for 50 grams of noodles. Also, lentils are pretty good.

No, it's nowhere near as enjoyable as meat, but since my family has a history of heart disease, and I don't like the idea of consuming estrogen, so far the plant protein seems to be doing just fine

[–]MGTOWManofMystery1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm an older man. Getting T shots every 3 weeks now. I feel much more energetic, have a much-increased sex drive, I'm more aggressive in a positive way, and my testicles seem bigger and fuller (at least to me). So I'm confused by people here related that testicles might shrink with T.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Every three weeks? Is it enanthate? I did a cycle and even the long lasting esters require twice a week shots to maintain stable levels

[–]MGTOWManofMystery0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'll check and get back to you.

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Would definitely look into changing your protocol you should be getting them weekly at most. If you're on Test then you should talk about weekly injections. I can't speak for HCG or any others

[–]MGTOWManofMystery0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. To make sure I understand you though, I want to stress that right now I am getting shots every three weeks. Are you saying I should do more or less than that?

I'm going to ask my doctor a lot of questions next time!

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

If your doing TRT you should be getting weekly injections based on the half life of the drug. Every three weeks is fucking awful. Definitely change that.

[–]MGTOWManofMystery0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks. I'll ask Doctor Old School!

[–]Raikkonen7161 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Noob question: I read that T injections (that is what you call TRT, right?) may cause infertility.

If one wants to avoid it, he should try to have the maximum of natural T. Does increasing natural T leves has any side effect?

[–]scandicock1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wont cause PERMANENT fertility, it comes back when you go off. If u wanna reassure urself, use HCG with it

[–]gokartgo 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Can you link to which test you are suggesting on Private MD Labs?

[–]CC_ee0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Anyone know if you can get tested on NHS?

[–]Hannibal100 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just to clarify was there any correlation between the fact you were 142(<%10BF) and having poor T-level results?

Thanks

[–]Friendly_Friends0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is no stronger test of your frame and manhood than low-T induced ED. I had a spell of it for awhile and was near-suicidal from both being floppy, and from the mood swings/depression from low T. I was not in the US at the time, and it was hell trying to convince doctors that something wasn’t right and that tests should be done. At best they would prescribe ED pills, which would just make my body hot and face flush...sans boner. They often denied I had a problem because I was relatively young. It really was a nightmare.

Fortunately I found a doctor who put me on a Clomid and HCG protocol, and I supplemented it with all the herbs people mention (ashwaghandha, tribulus, B-vitamins, etc) and lots of lifting. I used to be hypersexual and have to take a moment to beat off during the day just to stop constant blue balls. Though I have not gotten back to that state, and may never (without TRT maybe), my test levels did shoot up in the course of a few weeks, and I was back to picking up and spinning plates. I have had no issues with Clomid, and no side effects. I will switch to TRT after I have a kid, or age 45, whichever comes first. As long as my Clomid/workout/supplement regimen continues to work, I am absolutely fine without consigning myself to a life of TRT.

Get your levels checked. I really wish I had done it earlier.

[–]FeederPatrol0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

What’s a good way to get extra zinc? Through supplements or through diet?

[–]dogchrist0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

do dead lifts, bench presses, squats, rows, and overhead presses to raise testosterone levels.

also eat lots of vegetables and do martial arts.

[–]Morphs_0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Do T levels change a lot? Suppose I have my levels checked after fapping 3 times a day of after a week of NoFap. Would that make a difference?

Do you just go to your md for this? I've wondered about my levels for some time but not sure what a good reason would be to have it checked.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most general practitioners don't know anything/enough, go to an ends or men's clinic. Fapping lowers your T by increasing prolactin, which suppresses your other hormone production

[–]Shaman66241 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes it varies a lot. Suppose you would sleep 8 hours and then get your T levels checked. If you slept only 7 hours the next day and get your levels checked they can be 15% lower. Or they might be 30% higher if you ate a big grassfed steak, lifted heavy weights, just got the business deal of your live and made out with a 10/10 girl.

[–]scandicock0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Check it on private clinic. T levels may wary but NOT alot.

[–]Morphs_0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think through my GP it's covered by basic insurance, a private clinic will probably cost a lot.

[–]mrHappyPotatoe0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you have high sex drive should you bother going to check it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think it's really necessary to get your T levels checked unless you are experiencing symptoms of low T. If you exercise, eat a decent diet, and sleep, your T is almost certainly fine.

[–]scandicock1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

False, many many young guys have low testosterone today. Any male over the age of 25 should check them out.

[–]noobknob 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

does zma help? will i loose hair or become infertile?

[–]Shaman66240 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Zma only helps if you have a deficiency. A deficiency in zinc or vitamin d can be a cause of low test.

[–]SirKnightRyan0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh no doubt it’s potent. I’m not doubting it’s effects, I’m 100000% for using drugs when they can benefit you. However I don’t think testosterone is something that should be commonly taken. Testosterone makes you a fucking Chad We don’t want a world filled with chads

I’d rather get my confidence and assertiveness from knowledge. Use consciousness expanding drugs, and be the smartest person in every room.

Nothing makes you more confident than that

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between using TRT to get to baseline and cycling your T into the thousands

[–]Shaman66240 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I don't have any symptoms of low test. Sleep fine. High sexdrive. Happy. Etc etc. But I took a test and only got 390 ng/dl . any idea how?

[–]scandicock1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are fine then, your shbg might be low making your free test decent or even pretty good. If u feel good, then no need to fix it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Other things matter like the other person who responded said. Free T is what your body is utilizing, which is only ~2% of total usually. Also prolactin, estrogen, thyroid stimulating Hormone, follicle stimulating Hormone, blood count densities all have an effect on how your body responds to a certain volume of testosterone

[–]fastnail0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A good article on Testerone here -

https://illimitablemen.com/tag/testosterone/

[–]Boshackalaka0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Another thing that is commonly overlooked is free testosterone. You could easily have normal total levels, but below the range in free levels. Just make sure you get both checked if you are going for it.

[–]Ichewfivegum0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Get all your hormones checked, a good balance of them is essential to live a productive life.

[–]PapiLopez0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Rarely go to a doctors so don't know, do you literally say to the doctor "could you do a blood test for testosterone"?

[–]metallicdrama0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly, just spend the $85 on some oysters and beef. If you have low T you'll want to do something about it anyways. And who the fuck doesn't want more T even if it is high?

[–]MaxBrodin0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You said it with the last line - the “normal” T level is so wacky wide that the test is useless. I had mine done a while ago, and the range they give you completely invalidates any judgement you can draw from the results.

Also, spoken to a urologist about androgel and such once. He said once you start messing with the levels it’s hard to stop - you would be sitting on androgel for a long time.

[–]Ricky4690 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Go to a reputable doctor to have your T-levels checked. Most men are fine. There is fluctuation from day to day. As you age it drops too. Getting medicine you don't need can be dangerous not only baldness and testicle shrinkage but prostate cancer. Many prostate cancers are driven by T-levels and it's certainly not worth risking a life threatening disease on pseudoscience, go to a reputable endocrinologist or urologist.

[–]PapiLopez0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok cool I've been thinking about being tested for a while. I'm in Australia so the privatemdlabs won't work for me I'll just try with the doc unless you know any alternative sites? Also I've been reading a full hormonal panel might be most beneficial? Or maybe just one showing Free test?

[–]Westernhagen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Low T will kill you. Being fat and low T is especially bad for you.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24942084

Adverse health effects of testosterone deficiency (TD) in men.

Testosterone and its metabolite, 5α-dihydrotestosterone are critical metabolic and vascular hormones, which regulate a host of biochemical pathways including carbohydrate, lipid and protein metabolism and modulate vascular function. Testosterone deficiency (TD) is a well-recognized medical condition with important health implications. TD is associated with a number of co-morbidities including increased body weight, adiposity and increased waist circumference, insulin resistance (IR) and type 2 diabetes mellitus (T2DM), hypertension, inflammation, atherosclerosis and cardiovascular disease, erectile dysfunction (ED) and increased incidence of mortality. In this review, we summarize the data in the literature on the prevalence of TD and its association with the various co-morbidities and suggest that T therapy is necessary to improve health outcomes in men with TD.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29067698/

Double Trouble: co-occurrence of testosterone deficiency and body fatness associated with all-cause mortality in US men.

Over a median of 9.5 y of follow-up, 142 men died of any cause in this cohort. Multivariable analysis showed a 2.60 fold increased risk of death among men with TD compared with men without TD (Hazard Ratio [HR] = 2.60; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 1.20 - 5.80). No evidence for interaction between TD and overall or abdominal obesity with risk of death (Pinteraction ≥ 0.80). However, only after comparing men with TD and abdominal obesity with men without TD and no abdominal obesity, we found a 3.30 fold increased risk of death (HR = 3.30, 95% CI = 1.21 - 8.71).

CONCLUSION:

Men with co-occurrence of TD and abdominal obesity have a higher risk of mortality.

[–]lojork0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Please get your T level checked. It raises my stock price.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Any supplements out there that help with low T? I’ve seen lots of advertisements for Nutramagen etc. does anyone have experience with it.

[–]shakespeareSMG-2 points-1 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

The ancestors of this race who were badass Vikings, warriors, pirates, mercenaries, gunslingers, and firefighters never had T-levels checked.

Doctors and pharmaceutical companies create bull shit for the consumer and we buy it. It’s just as bad as the feminine imperative except it’s the consumer imperative.

There were not all these things like ATD and OCD. We are all mad sheep and cows. Welcome to the modern world.

[–]P36hawk5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Those same people died at average 40 This is the same kind of bullshit like anti-vaxxers preach about. Is a man a girly faggot for having to go the optometrist and getting prescription glasses?

[–]shakespeareSMG-4 points-3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Better to die at forty then...

But I would check my history again.

[–]P36hawk2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You live in a free society, so you live the way you want, but please dont preach that going to the doctor is bullshit or that is a gay thing.

[–]shakespeareSMG-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not. But it may be unnecessary and make one neurotic in the process. Medical consumerism is worse than it’s ever been. Doctors are just as unscrupulous as any other profession so let’s see what sticks and what is a hoax.

[–]kkri30 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm in my twenties with a T level of 320. This is the lower spectrum of the normal range, so this partially explains my slow progress in the gym. What concerns me more though is that I have erection problems. I can't get hard unless I have a 10/10 girl blowing me.

Question to guys taking TRT: how much of a difference did it make for you? It took me years of serious effort to get rid of my acne, so I want to avoid taking any hormones or drugs unless I really have to.

[–]Westernhagen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is the difference between night and day. Huge difference. Wish I'd started it when I was in my 20s. I had low libido and ED problems before, but not any more.

Incidentally, it has not created any facial acne, though I sometimes get it on my torso.

[–]Austonmatthews3450 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well if you're going to the black market for one thing, you might as well go for that other thing called Accutane. It will dry you out, causes depression , and will hurt your gains in the gym because it will dry your joints out temporarily. The shit is basically poison and is prescribed only in rare instances for that reason, but it is by far the most effective acne treatment out there. Yeah Accutane is easily obtainable online, well it was back in 2012 anyways, but back then you could buy DMAA (the ingredient that was in the original jack3d supplement) on Amazon and EBay lol. I'm laughing at the doctors now who refused to prescribe it, ignorant pieces of crap!!! I told them I refused to take their ineffective antibiotics like tetracycline and such and would take my search online. My skin thanked me later.

I've been clean of cycling for 4 years now though, and after years of trying different routines like 5 day splits, Dog Crapp training, 5x5, etc I am nearly as strong naturally at 26 following nSuns 5/3/1 routine as I was when I was retardedly enhanced at 22. I'm not sure what it is about this routine, but it is making me insanely strong naturally to the point where I'm projected to pass my peak cycle lifts of the past in another 8 weeks. I'll probably use a TRT dosage when I'm in my mid 40s but until then it looks like smooth sailing.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Did you get your other hormones tested also? Free T, estrogen, prolactin, tsh?

[–]drsherbert0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Don’t go on TRT. You’ll regret it later. Just take DIM to metabolize the excess estrogen.

[–]aaaasssaaa11-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

"Healthy t levels"

You had a healthy one and still went full retard making injections. So you are a manlier man than another manly men?

If you can't live with your own self and go to extremes INJECTING some UNNESSESSARY shit into your body, well... Get your self-confidence levels and priorities checked.

[–]Sonifys 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Dude you sound a bit uneducated when it comes to TRT. It’s not like doing steroids. I’m very happy with my decision and I don’t regret it. You do you man.

[–]aaaasssaaa110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You sound a bit tunnel visioned. Idc

[–]Don_Himself-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just so everyone knows, going to the gym 5 times a week is just asking for Low T levels. You need to give your body proper time to recover and get stronger.

This is why many elite MMA fighters are Low T and need TRT or PEDs. You can't lift heavy and do MMA 5 or 7 times a week, several times a day. Grueling training takes a HUGE mental toll on your mind and body, which raises cortisol and hinders your gains and limits your free T production.

heavy lifting 3 times per week is the best compromise between progressive overload and well-needed rest. MMA training should also be done on lifting days too.

try decreasing the amount of days you work out, and become more efficient at recovery before looking into TRT IMO

[–]DickDobbs-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You don't NEED to check your T levels, you can if you WANT, but it has nothing to do with bettering yourself, unless it does for YOU.

[–]codyjoe-3 points-2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think a higher sex drive is conducive, remember our sex drive is what women use to deceive seduce and manipulate us into giving them our money and doing things for their gain such as pass laws and so on that is counter productive to our goals and our rights as men. A higher sex drive does nothing to help a man and everything to help women gain control of us.

[–]thassidus3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Better go castrate yourself.

[–]codyjoe0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So your saying men should embrace their high sex drive? I just dont get it.

[–]thassidus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, sex is life affirming, and therefore the drive to have sex is a good thing and should be maximized.

Beyond that, it is a measure of your vitality as a man. Cherish it.

[–]LovesAbusiveWomen[🍰] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Is there no way to know if you have abnormally low T without going to a doctor?

I'm not a manly man, but i'm fine if it's how nature intended me to be, but if it's the result of an imbalance...

[–]SirKnightRyan-1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I don’t like this post, you seem to give testosterone more credit than it deserves. While in many ways it is the “man” hormone, the amount you actually have now has very little effect on your functioning. It’s main purpose was to differentiate male vs female brains in development. Raising T levels only has effects on your body, and it’s effects on the brain aren’t targeted. You really should only take TPT if you have REALLY low T that actually effects your day to day life (low sex drive, retrograde ejaculation etc) Don’t fuck with your brain chemistry because you think it’ll make you more “manly” whatever the fuck that means

[–]scandicock0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

False, shit tons of androgen receptors all over the male body, including the brain. High test will make you assertive, confident, driven, centered and way more "alpha". Females will smell it too.

[–]SirKnightRyan0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Hormones are not neurotransmitters, they’re modulators. They have an effect but aren’t the drivers. You know what makes you more assertive and confident? Assertiveness and confidence. Artificially boosting T proves that you don’t feel like enough of a man already. “Females will smell it too” I couldn’t have cringed harder

[–]scandicock0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Hormones regulate neurotransmitters. Theres a clear relationship between testosterone and dopamine, for example. Not only that, but also between estrogen and serotonin.

They have a HUGE effect, very so often. Assertiveness and confidence is a feeling, women are programmed to be attracted to those characteristics cause statisticly speaking men with good hormone levels are more assertive than men with bad hormone levels.

Studies clearly show that females (not only in humans) are drawn to androstenone, a steroidal phermone produced by testosterone. The more testosterone u produce, the more androstenone u will emit.

I suggest you google: "trt pheromones", "test cycle pheromones", "test cycle attraction from women" and take a look of that thousands and thousands of men suddently start to experience when injecting testosterone.

If u wanna talk red pill, u better realise how extremely potent testosterone is and that theres a reason its banned in the US today (not in the majority of the world tho). Blue pill idiots really do not understand nothing.

[–]SirKnightRyan0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh no doubt it’s potent. I’m not doubting it’s effects, I’m 100000% for using drugs when they can benefit you. However I don’t think testosterone is something that should be commonly taken. Testosterone makes you a fucking Chad We don’t want a world filled with chads

I’d rather get my confidence and assertiveness from knowledge. Use consciousness expanding drugs, and be the smartest person in every room.

Nothing makes you more confident than that

[–]scandicock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, obviously you should always strive to become a more well read and experienced person in the world, not denying that. However, what I do find quite annoying is when people think testosterone "wont do nothing" and "it has nothing to do with real confidence!!" - not saying ure claiming that, by the way, just a feeling I got and it might be misinterpreted.

Anyway, testosterone is great, anyone with low levels should take it and EVERYONE above the age of like 25 should check their levels to see.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

He chose a dvd for tonight

[–]OddBuzzword0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm 19 5'8 140 pounds and around 12% bf I think, and my t levels were in the low 300's. I also took the test in the morning fasting like you're supposed to. Other than having low bf I definitely also feel like I have low T symptoms.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I choose a dvd for tonight

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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