Girls you orbit will say they care about you, but really only care about your attention.

June 9, 2018

The lure

Got infatuated with a girl at work (large company) before I discovered TRP.

We started out as friends, but as time progressed she started flirting with me. I asked her out and she said she was still getting over someone (mutual acquiantence that works with us; she'd been seeing for 3 months), but claimed she was interested in me. She set that hook real well.

The game

A month passes and we begin spending more time together. I'm thinking that since I made my intentions known, she wouldn't be wasting my time like this if it wasn't going to go somewhere.

But a month passes and I raise the topic again. Again, she says she really cares about me; that if only the circumstances were different we could try. But she is scared of getting hurt by someone from work again, because she hates having to see him all over the place as a constant reminder. (Oh, the irony.)

So I swallow my second helping of spoon-fed bullshit with gusto. I tell her I'm going to get a little distance from her to get over my feelings so we can continue to be friends. I really believed that was something you could do.

After a couple weeks, we start hanging out again. She is more reserved, like it was in the beginning. No more physical flirting from her for a couple weeks. Then the behavior comes back in full, and my head goes right back to the clouds.

The breaking point

I finally confess to her that I wasn't over her and really hoped we could try something. She confesses to me that she's been seeing someone the last several weeks but has been keeping it a secret. She tells me that she understands if I need some space, and that she's really sorry.

I snapped and discovered TRP after I found out the guy she was seeing was from work. Despite suddenly being violently thrust into the anger phase, I play it cool, as it's a workplace situation. I tell her that yes, I do think I'll be needing this space after all. Told her "I don't think it's healthy to be spending time with someone I have feelings for."

Which is true. Just knowing you are being affected by infatuation does not allow you to stop the way you feel overnight. It may have been pretty weak to have told her I had feelings for her, but it seemed like the best way to get her to leave me alone without getting dramatic.

Either way, I went hard on Tinder, banged an average chick to get it out of my system and began my monk mode/further engagement with TRP as it was now clear that I needed to change/deprogram.


I stick to my conviction. No contact with her at all. I stopped thinking about her as much, or as frequently, and things were fine.

Two months pass this way without her trying to contact me, until one day I get a hand written note from her saying she missed me and hopes we can hang out again soon.

I'm not falling for that shit again. I ignore it.

Two weeks pass, then one day she comes to my desk and starts chatting. I'm not being very engaging, but she asks if we can talk. So again, this time in person, I give her the same line as before: I don't think it's good for me to hang out with her while I still have feelings for her, so I'd appreciate it if she stopped trying to hang out again.

But is that the end of it? No. The very next week she comes by again! I can tell how bad she wants me to orbit again, but I'm not falling for it. Would still bang her if I got a chance, but I'm under no delusions. I look at her seriously and say "I told you it hurts me to see you while I'm still attracted to you, and we agreed not to hang out. Has something changed?"

She replies "no, I'm just going through some hard times right now and wanted a friend. Sorry, I'll try not to again." Wrong answer sweetie, the only thing that gets me back now is an invitation to play doctor. She slinks away with shame on her face.


I've had to give her 3 warnings, each increasingly more brusque. The solipsism is strong in this one.

She was and is totally willing to trade my happiness for her sadness. If she really cared about me as she claimed, then she wouldn't do something that I repeatedly told her was painful to me. She considered herself entitled to my time and directly violated my requests to leave me alone.

Girls that put you in the friendzone actually care about you in much the same way as they care about a puppy. They like you because you give them constant attention on demand.

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Post Information
Title Girls you orbit will say they care about you, but really only care about your attention.
Author it_takes_the_redpill
Upvotes 868
Comments 146
Date June 9, 2018 10:11 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link
Original Link
Similar Posts

[–]∞ Mod | RP Vanguardbsutansalt[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (2 children) | Copy Link

  1. Don't shit where you eat.

  2. The great test is to examine how often a "friend" initiates contact. If they never do, then stop initiating contact and. see. what. happens. Odds are that's the only time they initiate contact back, to make sure you're still on the hook.

  3. Unbalanced friendships aren't friendships at all. Rather the person who's more invested is likely being taken advantage of. At best they're not appreciated and thus the other person is unworthy of your time.

[–]lorum_ipsum_dolor292 points293 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Smart move avoiding a workplace relationship. They are career poison. I wouldn't be surprised if she tries to get you in trouble (or at the very least talks shit about you to coworkers). Woman can't tolerate being rejected. Be on your toes.

Edit, grammar, spelling

[–]3chazthundergut62 points63 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

He's not avoiding workplace relationships. He wants a relationship, but she won't let him out of the friendzone.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 42 points43 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm avoiding workplace relationships. I wanted one before discovering TRP. No longer.

[–]3chazthundergut17 points18 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

You asked her: "has anything changed?"

Stop Male hamstering and stop lying to yourswlf. You would still fuck this chick, workplace or not, if only she were interested.

If you really didn't want to be involved, you'd just say "I can't I'm too busy" and leave it at that.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You asked her: "has anything changed?"

You're right, this was a way for me to leave the door open just a crack in case she felt like jumping in.

But it was also a way for me to tell her to go away and stay away if she didn't feel like going out.

I realize now that looking for that verbal confirmation is weak. And that she was still farming validation from me in the process.

Even though I wouldn't mind fucking her, I'm not going to invest any more time and further complicate it. If she returns I'm hitting her with busy signals only.

[–]3chazthundergut14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good. Keep it up.

And I'm not saying don't fuck her; I am saying always be honest with yourself.

[–]greatslyfer8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Technically he is avoiding workplace relationships, just not out of his own accord since in the instance where this first started, he followed the opportunity once it presented itself, it just that it didn't work out since she was just blue balling him.

[–]Super47_10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This dude is spot on, watch out for her fallout, she might just try and get something on you.

[–]AudioRebellion100 points101 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yup. Been exactly where you were but i ended up going to my boss about her always "visiting me". "I told my boss she's always talking around my desk, I don't know if she likes but I'm not interested in her at all" That got the gossip mill going. She can try to deny having a crush on me but it's her who's coming around to my desk not the other way around. After that little conversation with my boss i never saw her anymore. (different floors, opposite sides of the building). But the hens on my kept on coming up to me trying to talk around the current gossip but actually saying exactly what they want to say about her and the situation.

When they would come out and ask about her and i hanging out and chatting a lot I'd just say i was being friendly. I was new and didn't want to upset her and have the best 1st impression. Add to the fact i never did fuck her which in hindsight i'm glad i didn't. It would've made it that much harder to get rid of her.

There's a reason why you never fuck girls at work no matter how easy it may be, the blow back is sometimes unmanageable.

[–]3chazthundergut3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree 100%

But I probably wouldn't have publically embarrassed a female coworker. I always try to give chicks an "escape route" for them to save face.

That's the strategy that works best for me personally: never make her hamster feel cornered.

[–]htowntrav33 points34 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The goalie don’t stop you from making a point. Remember AWALT.
Invest your personal time into positive outlets. Lift, have a social network, have hobbies, make money outside work. Do the things you need to for ranking up in SMV. Remember being the nice guy makes wyhmen dry up quick.

Biggest issue is self-improvement and introspection. Move away from your current self and frame. Make it bigger and better. Remember abundance mentality. This current self you are writing this post couldn’t have made anything work with this girl. You should be thanking her for not wasting your time. She could smell the oneitis on you. You can’t blame her for seeking out betas for attention. It’s female nature to do so!

Reason I state this is because what’s the end goal? Making her your wife or having fun spinning a plate?

[–]hakubamatata6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Was about to post a similar sentiment! Also... I’m seeing a lot of anger and animosity to her type in this thread... but it should really be reframed in reality and that is, all women are like that, which has pros and cons... but why focus on the cons when the pros are so advantageous...

Life’s too short and getting bogged down with anger is a wasteful exercise

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah the truth of the matter is I let myself get played. I was BP at the start of the story, and by the end of it I have begun to internalize RP principles.

She isn't really acting in surprising fashion anymore now that I get the mechanism. I expected her to come back just like she did. I don't hate her for it. I got over the rage and just accept that's how it will go if you don't escalate and make your intentions clear from the beginning. If you accept her LJBF stuff, it's not really her being a bitch so much as you.

[–]MartinTyler4547 points48 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for your report. It's good to understand that if she's not dating with you, you should ghost her.

''I told you it hurts me to see you while I'm still attracted to you'', you shouldn't tell her the reason for ghosting. When you spell those words, you make her selector and burst her ego. Next time get rejected, delete her phone number, delete on social media and in real life give short and cold answers, do not explain. When you speak her like that, you create drama.

By the way, when they say LJBF, say that you have enough friends and leave. Being friends with someone that you attracted nothing but orbiting.

[–]LeadVitamin1320 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

''I told you it hurts me to see you while I'm still attracted to you''

Plus it makes him sound like a touchy feely beta. Kind of cringed when I first read that.

[–]Adem8710 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would never tell a woman about my feelings. That’s really disgusting to do.

[–]MTNSC1-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This...he is hamstering for TRP but likely he was nearly crying when he told his crush that he couldn't be around her when he was so much in love.

Op apparently is clueless in that he doesn't realize that his reaction\declaration of love\not being able to being in his princesses shadow because it hurts his feelings has completely cemented that this chick will NEVER, EVER drop her panties for him, but not to worry, Op is holding out hope by repeatedly telling her that if she changes her mind and wants to hang, then he is there waiting. I imagine that she and her new dick get a good laugh about the Op's feeling after he has finished pounding her for a couple of hours.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

likely he was nearly crying when he told his crush that he couldn't be around her when he was so much in love.

Projecting much? Fuck off.

Op apparently is clueless


Op is holding out hope

This was something I was doing. I thought it was a decent solution. I've been taught otherwise, and see the error in my ways. I was on the right track by refusing to be her "friend" anymore, just not implementing strategy pefectly. If you actually read the post and have decent comprehensive skills you'll see I'm much further along than you seem to think. Still, I'll admit this was true after a fashion.

I imagine that she and her new dick get a good laugh about the Op's feeling after he has finished pounding her for a couple of hours.

She's not mine, why should I care that she's getting dicked by someone else? She made her bed. I've already fucked 2 bitches since then and I've got a 3rd lined up this weekend.

[–]Dmva100 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Niceguy orbiters are the prototype good man raised by the domineering single mommas and all they're gonna do on the SMP is get recalled due to their faulty ways; recalled back to the nursing home to take care of aging mommy poopy Tena pads because she's the only one who love him boohoo

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 34 points35 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You sir, hit the nail on the head. I was indeed raised by a domineering single mom who divorce raped my dad. Mom is self-employed and actually makes good coin so she didn't need no man and I was raised fatherless just during the crucial years when I needed a masculine figure in my life.

I have nothing but empathy for every guy in my situation. Having been raised by women to hate "toxic masculinity" and thus convince myself that "I'm not like the douchebags, I'm actually decent. Most men are assholes and plenty of them are rapists."

Making me feel like I'm a demon for having sexual feelings. Telling me I have to get verbal consent every step of the way, and men and women are equal and identical, it's just "stereotypes" that get in the way.

Now that I'm familiar with the nice guy paradigm, have read most of NMMNG, I can't believe there's this underlying pattern that nobody bothers to talk about.

And the worst part is even though I have some friends in the same situations, I can't help because I know I'll be perceived as that evil toxic manbro that the feminists warn about.

I've stepped into the crucible. Doing a 180. I'm coming out a new man or not at all.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro169 points170 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

She pursued you. You blew it by being too tame and way too overt.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime155 points156 points  (9 children) | Copy Link


I told you it hurts me to see you while I'm still attracted to you, and we agreed not to hang out. Has something changed?

If you changed that to just been busy, no issue, with a I don't really give a shit about you sort of attitude and she would have been eating out of the palm of your hand.

But I'm in full agreement don't shit where you eat, so who cares.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 25 points26 points  (7 children) | Copy Link


Thank fuck.

If you changed that to just been busy, no issue, with a I don't really give a shit about you sort of attitude and she would have been eating out of the palm of your hand.

I never intend to let this happen again but out of curiosity, how would you begin escalation to ensure it didn't become just another free attention grab? (Aside from applying that attitude throughout.)

I'm thinking I would see her for a quick lunch catch-up to reestablish rapport. Then get her alone outside work again and kino it up as long as she doesn't shut shit down with the "I'm seeing someone" card.

[–]Endorsed ContributorKeffirLime49 points50 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

When you flip the script on an attention whore, it's quite a great position to be in. They want their pedastal back.

After rejection, I'd have played it quite fine, gone on with my life, show zero butt hurt, flirt with other women in the office.

I'm thinking I would see her for a quick lunch catch-up

Wouldn't do lunch, too friendzoney, rather after work drinks, if she plays the seeing someone card pull a cheeky line like "Whooa, don't get too excited, it's just a drink"

I'd assess the vibe, but if im not getting the signals I want wouldn't push for a move just yet, don't want her thinking you're still overly keen, but atleast you've broken the only seeing at work/lunch barrier.

Continue acting uninterested, hang out again after work sometime, escalate, if it still didn't work next the bitch.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 23 points24 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Appreciate the reply, thanks for letting me pick your brain!

I've actually hung out with her outside work several times. Sometimes at her place, sometimes in public. Had drinks with some work friends, too, but never alone. I do see the point about lunch, though. It was part of the friend routine, too familiar.

Now excuse me, I have a giant shit to take in the kitchen.

Kidding. Not worth it.

[–]2gudfou1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A mindset you should have when talking to her is a classic one of being "The Prize." That's why the line of "Whooa, don't get too excited, it's just a drink" works because you're showing that you're not chasing her. A very beta way of asking a girl out is to tell her the door is open and only a desperate girl would ever take that option.

[–]epicfadeout10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In short, forget about this chick and move on. She sounds like a headache and nothing real great is gonna come out of this. The only real positive takeaway for you here is to prove to yourself that you're capable of re-attracting a girl who you fucked up with...ok, 1 pt awarded to your ego. It's not a bad experiment and practice for your game.

I'm going through the same scenario right now, finally turning the tables on a chick who I fucked up with like 2 years ago (one of the reasons I found this place). I thought FOREVER that if I could get her back, things would feel so victorious. Oh lordy, here come the angels! Fast forward to this past week...she's asking me if I can hang out and my refrain has basically been "naw I'm busy af this week, next week would be better". She's since been blowing up my phone like a god damn lunatic. However, she's recently gained weight, and I've been seeing two other girls lately who are cuter, cooler, and smarter than this one.

The bottom line here is that sure you might be able to flip things around and get her interested in fucking/dating you, but you might be in for a shock once that happens. IME the few times girls have come crawling back, it is mostly just really sad and pathetic. And your past beta behaviors + the ensuing bullshit and disrespect that this caused them to treat you with, will always be lurking somewhere in the shadows of your mind.

You're far better off moving on and chalking your failures with this girl up to a lesson in how to not act towards women you like.

[–]RoyalPinecone30 points31 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

No bruh. U really want to talk to a bitch again who used you like a toy for her ego? Fuck that. Be an alpha and have some self respect. She lost all of ur attention by being a lying bitch who played u for consistent validation until she found someone she perceived alpha to tie down. Truly one of the greatest insults, unless of course you’re a beta and let yourself get walked all over. U use these bitches they don’t use you. Because they are the submissive inferior and thus you can do what you want with them & they take it. They’re the doormats, you’re the superior. Women are just cum sluts that you fuck and toss like the useless whores they are. Keep your guard up & don’t ever make a bitch feel cute or like anything ever again unless she EARNS it. No meaningful attention until she earns it by being a dope ass girl whose always there when u want her etc. She gets a treat when she does right by you. Not for being a breathing vagina owner.

[–]Aesthetic_God__4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I second that. It's golden. Sometimes bitches need someone who is busy and idgaf attitude cause it gets their panties wet.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 20 points21 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

She pursued you.

I considered that possibility, but I haven't talked about this with anyone and was worried that lingering infatuation may have colored my perspective on it. It's nice to have an objective confirmation.

You blew it by being too tame and way too overt.

Agreed. But since I had been infatuated before, I didn't trust my judgment. And I was also considering "don't shit where you eat" and Tomassi's iron rule #7. Didn't want to take the chance of getting sucked into wasting time on her, or causing a potential HR mess. So I intentionally blew it. The question is, was it reasonable to intentionally blow it?

[–]AshyLarry2720 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It wasn't reasonable to blow it and I'll explain. She used you for attention. It's only fair you use her as an in-field experience on how women work. Test TRP on her. The guys at the top of the comments explain it perfectly. Stop with this beta "meh I have feelings for you so I CANT hang out." Of COURSE she wont "pursue" you and keep treating you like a beta. She is getting mixed signals from your stoic nature, but then you say something stupid like that.

Begin changing it to "I've been busy" or "I am seeing someone right now." You can entertain talking to her, but use banter/AA. You can then begin using her as a way to test out TRP material. You don't have to sleep with her, but you can test talking to her and assess how her responses change to your more stoicism. DON'T shit where you eat, no matter how enticing at this time. Especially with how the meToo movement has been.

Go back to the sidebar and start covering the basics. Start lifting and showing signs of improvement. Do it for you.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I say yes, you were right. But then I'm biased because I am at a university, so the whole idea of office romance seems ridiculous to me.

[–]daymi4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Take it from an ex-office-drone. If you spend 9 h/day at the office every workday, you can and do develop crushes. The problem with hookups is that they'll (always) break eventually. If you have a good career, why risk your career?

[–]BillSander5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I can see your point, but also he is at work, so a relationship/seks is a no no. OP is still learning, so his weakness of confessing his "feelings" will go away.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My biggest takeaway here is that despite being correct in my decision not to pursue things any further due to it being a work situation, I was wrong to reveal anything about the way she made me feel. I didn't quite grasp the importance, because in my mind it was just over/not worth any more thought. I now see I was wrong.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nah man fuck that- like she may have been pursuing him, but don't date coworkers, not if you value your career

[–]Mr-Ed20929 points30 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You made the mistake of presenting yourself as weak and gullible. When this shit happens you have to accept that you fucked it up. No girl would willingly just start leading on some dude they had no interest in. What's important is you work the relationship to provide the value you want out of it. I know so, because I've been exactly there. I've told a girl pretty much what you said, about having feelings for her and still gotten used for validation. It sucks, but the only way to learn from it is to accept that it is your fault. Girls gonna be girls, you need to man up.

Girls can be interested in a guy, they can want to jump his bones. But, they are also happy to just have attention from the same guy provided free, at a comfortable distance where they can 'asses' you further. They can even be casually sleeping with another man and have their emotional relationship with some other man. Justifying it to themselves that they will make space for the emotional man once their fling has subsided or whatever else bullshit they have going on in their life at one time.

I asked her out and she said she was still getting over someone (mutual acquiantence that works with us; she'd been seeing for 3 months), but claimed she was interested in me. She set that hook real well.

The reason she said this is because you made it too big of a deal. Women respond to offers in the moment and if you project a sense of 'I hope this girl likes me' it presents too much pressure on her. We all know you did this because you wouldn't be writing paragraphs on this sub about her if you didn't. You need to be the kind of dude she would not entertain that emotional spiel on. That doesn't mean being tall and ripped. It means being a guy who can see through it and treat it like the nonsense shit test that it is.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 15 points16 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

It sucks, but the only way to learn from it is to accept that it is your fault.

Damn straight. Though to be fair I have already owned up to my mistakes here. I discovered TRP after most of this. Pretty familiar with why it happened now. Just wanted to tell my story in case some people could get something out of it, even if it's just a confirmation that the same shit happens to them.

Girls gonna be girls, you need to man up.

That's what I'm here for, brotha!

[–]nomansapenguin21 points22 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think you’re handling the criticism levelled at you here pretty well.

I’d agree with others though. A girl showing you that much interest wants to sleep with you. You need to just get out of your own way. The lesson here is that your game needs to improve.

You played it like she had to confirm liking you in words. The reality is she could never like you in words and still sleep with you every day. Stop waiting for women to verbally confirm their interest. A girl visiting you every day, that’s an indication of interest. If you can’t convert that to sex, that’s your own game that’s failing.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You played it like she had to confirm liking you in words.

Yes, I'm realizing now that I failed to appreciate this fact, and that I should have adapted after making the mistake in the first place. Should have gone straight to the "just busy" blow off. Less free validation and it doesn't sounds so soft. Forcing a declaration of interest from her is far too much pressure for her to commit to one course of action; that would never fly.

Fuck it. Lessons learned. Moving forward.

[–]captaindestucto2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A girl showing you that much interest wants to sleep with you.

I don't understand why people keep repeating this. Women look for attention from men they have no intention of sleeping with all the time. Standard validation seeking behaviour and very likely this was happening here.

[–]nomansapenguin2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There are two types of guys. The ones that know a girl making effort for you is an indication of interest, and the ones that don’t.

I spent a long time being the one that doesn’t. When I look back at all the obvious signs I’ve been given through the years by women I thought were “just being friendly” - “or seeking attention” I cringe. If my game back then was anything like now I’d have been a different man.

The change came slowly, but the first TRP message that hit me was “you are the prize”. How can you expect anyone to love you if you don’t love yourself? That’s why they tell you to lift, because liking your body is the easiest way to begin loving yourself.

I went a different route. I simply pretended every woman giving me her time (non-forced) wanted me. I - like you now - didn’t realise how true this nugget of gold was. Time is a commodity, if a person is spending it on you, it is because you have value. Don’t downplay your value. Ever.

For the love of God don’t do what this guy did and ask if she likes you. But know she does. Say stuff like “buy me a drink on Friday and I might give you some attention”. Treat her like you know she wants to fuck you and it’s a secret between you both. Escalate. Always escalate.

This guy said they flirted a lot at work, but why had it not escalated? Because he needed validation. He needed her to confirm her interest. Had he gone with the mindset of this girl already likes me, then he would have been way more bold, and way more attractive to her.

As a final point I would also like to say that I am talking here about women making the effort. Not to be confused with a guy chasing woman who is accepting the attention. All women will accept attention but they will make effort for the attention of guys they are attracted to. These two things are not the same.

If you read a text conversation and you’re writing paragraphs and she’s giving 3 word replies... you’re making the effort. The other way around, she is. Same in person, she keeps coming to your desk, touching you, then she’s making it. You keep hitting her up... then you’re an orbiter. Nothing I’ve said above will work unless she is clearly making effort.

[–]sfdeljknesv11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No girl would willingly just start leading on some dude they had no interest in.

This simply isn't true. Lots of girls will lead you on just for validation.

[–]col_carillo12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You're about halfway there. It's great that you're determined not to try to fall back in her orbit, but here are a few tips:

1) To a girl, there is no such thing as bad drama. They live off emotion, period. It can be good or bad, doesn't matter. That's why girls go back to abusive boyfriends. It's the high of the rollercoaster from "he's so pissed he nearly killed me" to "he's so in love with me he bought me a teddy bear" (watch the music video for Eminem's _love the way you lie_: )

To a girl, if you show *any* emotion to them, they're winning. They're getting what they wanted. Which means... you shouldn't show them your emotions (except as a reward for them doing something for you).

When you decided to move on the first time, after she told you she was seeing someone, you shouldn't have told her you needed to move on because you still had feelings for her, and it wasn't healthy for you. You're basically admitting her power over you, and even if you think it's a bad, toxic power, in her mind, she's thinking "Damn, this guy really loves me". She doesn't care what that's doing to your emotional health. This is one of many ways that these girls are not your friends. Real friends care if their actions hurt you.

What you should have done when she told you this is play it cool, wish her luck, and that's it. Stop calling her, stop talking to her, etc. But never let her see the angst that drove you to that decision to ghost her.

2) Regardless though, your biggest mistake is what you did when she came back and tried to restart things with you. In your mind, you think that when she came back to you, it's because maybe she now likes you as boyfriend material. I hate to break it to you, but that's false. How do I know? Because after you ghosted her, you did nothing to prove to her that you had higher SMV (not that you should have; you were right in focusing on other women). Yes, the fact that you could refrain from calling her for a few months means she respects you a little bit more, but that's it. It's not enough to wet her panties unless you also improved in a bunch of other ways.

What's really going on in her mind is that she just got dumped by her guy, and she needs validation that she's still attractive and still worthy of love and attention. And when she went to you, that's exactly what you gave her when you said you couldn't talk to her because "you still have feelings for her". In her mind, she's going "Yes! Still got it!" Of course, she'd love it even more if you went back to being friends, but just knowing you're still tying yourself up in knots over her is enough of an ego boost.

What you should have done is treat her like any other mildly annoying acquaintance who comes and strikes up a conversation with you. Say something like "Oh, I'd love to catch up, but I'm really busy these next few nights. I'll hit you up next week if I get a few minutes." If she tries to start talking about how she's feeling, yadda yadda, keep your eyes on your computer screen, listen distractedly for 10 sec and say "Sorry XXX, I really need to get these emails out. But I'll call you next week. We'll talk then." And then never call her.

P.S. You asked how you might start things up with her again. First advice is: don't do it. There are plenty of girls out there, not at work, etc. But here's my advice:

If you wanted to mess with her while she was seeing someone, since you're all co-workers, hang out with her and her new boyfriend as a group after work, and AMOG the hell out of him, while paying absolutely no attention to the girl herself. If you can get her boyfriend to rave about how cool a guy you are by the end of the night, you've done your job and she will be dreaming about you that night and cursing herself for not choosing you over him :-) Nothing attracts a woman more than a guy who shows dominance over the guy she's currently fucking.

If you're looking at doing it now, while she's single, then you increase your SMV just like you would with any other girl.

The only unique thing is that if she still wants to hang out with you to "talk", you need to offer her your time but only on your terms (i.e. that you're going to have sex, or at least escalate physically). This comes down to dueling frames: are you strong enough to get her to buy into your frame, or is she strong enough to get you into her frame? And if you're new at this there's a high chance you fall into her frame and become her "friend" again. Which is why I don't recommend it. But if you insist on trying, here's what you do: don't do neutral things like lunch in the office. If you want to make her a fuckbuddy, or a FWB, then treat her like one. Text her later in the evening one night (ideally after you've already been on a date with someone else, and the girl's perfume is on you), and tell her you have an hour if she wants to come over and hang out. Don't tell her it's to talk. That would be a lie both to her and to yourself. Escalate as you would any other girl. If she doesn't reciprocate, or pulls out the LJBF, don't blow up at her. Tell her that's cool, that you're tired anyway, and send her home. Don't let her corral you into staying up all night talking to her. Remember, this is about dueling frames. The next day don't text, don't "talk about last night", etc. You can rinse / repeat as often as you'd like, and maybe one day, some combination of where her hamster is resting that night, and something you did to show her high SMV, might make her finally agree to have sex with you.

Quite frankly, it's a lot more work than it's worth, especially compared to finding some other girl, and carries the added risk of falling into her orbit again. But there you go.

Overall, I think you did okay, but next time this happens, just remember that *any* emotion you show her is a victory in her mind. Girls like this don't care if they make you happy or sad, as long as they do *something* to you. Don't give them that validation. They have to earn the right to see your inner emotional self.

[–]Redpilledaccordingly4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You to need start writing for TRP. This was concise, straightforward, and amazing. The frame thing was vague to me, but one day it just "clicked".

[–]captaindestucto0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Broke it down into easily digestible points.

The comments about giving her power were spot on. I cringed when I read that in the OP's post. Apparently this needs to be spelled out for him.

[–]A_Bandini0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Concise and well-presented. This should be up-voted more.

[–]Pushthepedal36 points37 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Don’t ever say you “ have feelings for someone “ it’s stupid and childish. You don’t have feelings for her. It’s lust only

[–]hakubamatata17 points18 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Yea you want to be the next guy pinning her arms down prone bone in the hotel room while she bites a pillow and you enter her from behind spanking her just to hear moan cause she’s your dirty whore.

And she wants to be dominated by a man or she can’t get wet.

Be that guy to her... and when you’re done... move on! It’s not in our nature to be monogamous after all... and most marriages end in a horrific display of regret by idiots who said things like “have feelings for her”

[–]Pushthepedal8 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Whimpering like a wounded dog “ I still have feelings for you ;( “ when she walks by the desk is pretty sad lol. Don’t ever let that happen again OP

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Never again brotha, thanks.

[–]truedemocracy31 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Truth is, feelings aren't some on/off switch you can get rid of. But yea saying that shit to her puts her in a position of power and makes you look weak (which furthers her thinking you as not a sexual partner).

IMO best to ignore her completely and treat her like shit when you cant (since it's work). Dont worry about being 'the bad guy'. Women are MASTERS of doing whatever it takes to not be 'the bad guy'. If some girl in the office you had no interest in made advances to you would you still dangle yourself in front of her via texts and hanging out? Fuck no. This whore knows what she is doing.

[–]Pushthepedal2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Feelings is all about sex man. Anything that girl provides for you , you can get in any girl. They’re a dime a dozen all providing the same thing.

[–]truedemocracy31 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand and believe the logic behind it. But that doesnt mean every once in a while you aren't prone to emotional rushes towards someone.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

TL;DR - if you dunk your donut in the company coffee, you're going to get burned

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Aw manz, but I really wanted to add my creamer to the right cup

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire210 points11 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

If you associate with a woman, and there is no sex going on, be sure that she adds value to your life in some way, whether it be social proof, interesting conversation, activity partner; and also, that you're not spending time with her just in the hopes that she will "come to her senses," because in most cases, she won't, because attraction is not negotiable.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’ve never met woman that added value to my life that I wasn’t fucking or related to. People say men and women can’t be friends, to which I say I don’t know if they can or not but who cares?

[–]SpaceEnthusiast2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nah man. Think bigger. There are these two girls who come to the club with me from time to time and whenever they see me, they give me a big hug, right in front of the girl I'm talking to. Adds value so quickly!

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

So, all the women toiling away in sweatshops at poverty wages aren't adding value to your life by way of cheap merchandise? I guess it's all in how you look at it. If you do hobbies that are coed, and they add value by being good at the hobby, they add value.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Haha are you retarded or something? We are talking about individuals who add value to your life as friends, not the aggregation of female economic activity. Difficult to believe that you would actually type this out, read it over, and hit send.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire20 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, you didn't define what you meant by "value," so what did you expect? Value is value.

[–]MetamorphosisSilver5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"She was and is totally willing to trade my happiness for her sadness. That's an absolute gem of wisdom there. Any good relationship/friendship/whatever should have parity on the value that each receives from it. She placed FAR more value on what she felt she wanted from the situation than she was willing to give. Too bad, so sad girl.

[–]SeedThrownAway23 points24 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

This is way too timely for me not to share my embarrassing story.

Rewind to last year, there's this girl that's friends with the girlfriend of my close friend. First time I met her I was attracted, but at the time I was in one of my introverted mindsets. It was fine chilling but I never made a move.

One day I'm chillin with a different close friend and I ask about her. He says 'oh, she likes me apparently.' I'm thinking, damn but just say "alright I'll back off" (like I was "on" in the first place, lol) Anyway, they've been dating this whole time.

A few months ago, I move to a different country. She thinks it's interesting, and she contacts me and asks for my username on an app we both have. At first, I'm thinking "here we go" and just say sure, and exchange info.

Over the next month, we're texting when one night she calls me. She's kinda drunk and annoying, but I'm attracted to her, so I put up with it until I cannot anymore, and I say we can't be friends. I tell her it won't work because I have been and still am attracted to her. Since she's dating a very close friend of mine, it would just be a mess. She says she gets it, and agrees, but continues to contact me.

I respond to maybe 3/4 of her messages, but when she calls I almost always pick up. Can't kick my attraction for her. Because of this, I question my own principles, and why I'm so hung up on this girl, despite her dating my good friend. Meanwhile, she's texting me saying she dreamt about me (like 3 times?) and encouraging me to make music (which I truly appreciate) and just dancing all over that... 'line' between flirting and friendly. I'll occasionally tell her she just wants attention, trying to keep the whole thing somewhat clear.

I end up calling my good friend and telling him, basically, 'I told your girlfriend I'm attracted to her.' His response was, 'I'm glad you got the opportunity to tell her.' I didn't want to go any deeper into it, and I said what I thought was the most potent piece of information. Not sure if I could've handled it better, but I'm trying, mostly. There's a part of me that still wants her. Anyway...

She keeps hitting me up! And even though I don't respond to all her messages, there are times when we get into a conversation, and I know I'm being weak and maintaining contact. At one point, I'm reiterating, AGAIN, that we can't communicate like this, it's not fair to me, and it's not fair to my friend (who I don't even think cares, and that doesn't matter, although it does add an extra dimension of rationalization in my mind.)

During one video chat, she literally started crying. Sad that we can't talk anymore? Which seems insane, since we've been "friends" for what, 2 months now? And before that, she hints that she 'chose the wrong friend [to date]' and that she was attracted to me initially, but he made himself available and was "sincere". She was attracted to him, not me, plain and simple. (Rough to contemplate the "what could have beens" if I was actually on point in my social life, and presented myself confidently, from a place of sincere abundance...) Typing this out is almost therapeutic.

So yesterday, I fucked up and told her she was in one of my dreams. Sent it, instant guilt. I'm realizing how much I enjoy validation from women, and this girl specifically. She's asking me what it was about, I keep it extremely vague (sex. it was us having sex.) and she accepts I won't tell her, then says 'ask me a question' So I bring the entire situation to a head (again)and ask "do you see me as just a friend?"

She says yes. asks how I see her, then goes on about "how she gets excited when i message her" or some shit, which makes in clear, I'm an attention provider, I am an orbiter in her eyes. I call her out, asking "arent you just saying that so I'll give you attention because you know I've been attracted to you?"

Her response: "Promise I'm not. That would be cruel."

I say: "Don't be so hard on yourself."

She sends the upside down smiley emoji.

And before I saw that message, I noticed (for the first time) that she's got a FUCK ton of 'app points' through this communication app we've been using, which means she's constantly talking with people, and just solidified that she's SUCKING THE LIFE OUT OF ME AND ABUSING MY TIME AND ATTENTION.

So, now we're ""friends"", which means I keep the conversations extremely light, say 'idk lol' a lot, and overall just don't talk to her, or respond when she's sending convo-bait.

Today I wake up to a pic of her in bed, hints of cleavage, and I'm done with it. I'm embarrassed by all this, but it was a great learning experience.

Fuck, I need to get out more.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Why are people down voting this??

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor8 points9 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Because he let a girl he was attracted to manipulate him into the friend zone.

He only avoided a wave of downvotes by acknowledging he needs to get out more.

[–]SeedThrownAway4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

op_not_alpha = downvote? that's kinda lame

[–]truedemocracy34 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yea lets not act like feelings for girls dont happen to us. I have no problem sleeping around but occaisionally (very rarely) will see someone as a 'unicorn'. Those feelings are evolutionary just like everything else on this sub. We should learn to not act on them, but have to admit they exist

[–]SeedThrownAway1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. and when we see a girl as a 'unicorn', we're both acknowledging she's a catch[hence the name], and that she's subject to female nature[hence the quotations]

In rare cases, I'd argue we should act on those feelings(applying logic and reason, of course). This 'unicorn' might be a solid candidate for an LTR, and if we want to raise a traditional family, she might be worth the legal fees it takes to draft a solid prenup (and the attention, sacrifice, and commitment it would require thereafter)

[–]truedemocracy30 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree, with serious vetting. Although this sub probably disagrees with me, I firmly believe that I would never raise or have a kid without a married family unit. But I would never marry without the intent to raise or have a kid either.

[–]geo_gan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

ha, you live in US, the only place that actually has a legally binding pre-nup system, which overrides the marriage contracts... in other countries like mine, there is no such thing, a pre-nup might as well be written in red crayon on toilet paper... the only binding legal contract is the marriage certificate, and if she has that, she can take you for half your worth as well as monthly payments until the child is finished college, which is what, 23?...

[–]lilgreg10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

var alpha = 1; var beta = -1;

not_alpha = beta;

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If she really cared about me as she claimed, then she wouldn't do something that I repeatedly told her was painful to me. She considered herself entitled to my time and directly violated my requests to leave me alone.

Women... all women... have zero care for men. Zero. They'll flirt and tease and laugh if it suits them and they can get away with it. They'll enter agreements that they know are bad for the man. They'll suck a man dry who lets them.

Most women will admit this sooner or later, and then follow it up with "but I'm not a bad person" or worse "It's men's fault for letting us do this".

They simply do not give a flying fuck about you - even if they know you, even if you have friends in common. They care only about themselves and will only feign care or concern if it impacts on them.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

They'll suck a man dry who lets them.

Wouldn't mind that ;)


They simply do not give a flying fuck about you - even if they know you, even if you have friends in common. They care only about themselves and will only feign care or concern if it impacts on them.

This is the real point of my post; I think I must not have organized it well, because a lot of people focused on the wrong stuff. This was the "thing I learned in the field" so to speak.

I know now that it was weak to let her know she had any power over my feelings at all, even if I was telling her to fuck off. But that doesn't negate the fact that I was telling her it hurt. And she just kept coming by for that dose of validation anyway. Because she knows that if she pushes me like that she can hear someone tell he that she has options.

[–]Senior EndorsedMattyAnon1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the real point of my post

Yeah, I'm extending it to women in general. It's not just their orbiters they don't give a fuck about.

I know now that it was weak to let her know she had any power over my feelings at all, even if I was telling her to fuck off


But that doesn't negate the fact that I was telling her it hurt. And she just kept coming by for that dose of validation anyway. Because she knows that if she pushes me like that she can hear someone tell he that she has options.

Thing is... your pain and desire for her is what she feeds off. That it causes you pain, well that's secondary to her desire for validation.

Lesson learned I hope - they don't give a fuck about you.

[–]melungeonmuscle5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly dude I think you overcomplicated it. Girls will feed you bullshit right up until they drop their wet panties. You have to continually physically escalate so she turns off the fuckin hamster.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Want to bang her?

  • Dont use excuse of I have feelings because Beta Bucks
  • say " buy me a drink "

if she refuses simply explain why would we continue when atlEast StaCey from TINDRUR will buy you a drink

then ghost this bitch if she still plays hard, Welcome to the real time boi.

[–]AwkwardEmpath2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You're just another source of an easy hit of dopamine for em'.

[–]scorpionkg2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man, important things:

i) never try to negotiate, that is the end and the point where you lose her respect and admiration (you can't negotiate desire)

ii) Work on your frame, never be the sad and emotional one (be the man, please).

You losted her in the first time because you where beta as fuck, don't go back.

Too much blue pilled for now, go and read and learn a lot more about redpill.

Best wishes.

[–]1Ramesses_2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey bud just wanted to let you know that she's not trying to trade your happiness for her sadness, she just doesn't understand male communication. You said something, you meant it and now you're sticking to your word. That's not how it works for girls. They often say the exact opposite of what they mean and on purpose. So just be aware of that. They also know they're not held accountable (it's a woman's prerogative to change her mind remember) so she never feels like she has to say TRUE things or stick to them. Men face negative consequences for not following through on their word whereas women are excused. Viewing things through her lens she's not really being selfish, she's being a woman.

[–]VicariousWolf2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Its fucking insane how close of a situation is to mine. Few differences being her guy shes dating now isnt a coworker.

I asked for space and literally a half hour later she snaps me a pic of herself at his house playing videogames. I asked her to not snap me because I needed space and she blew up at me saying I was being ridiculous and blocked me on everything. Good riddance.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Lightswitch effect once they realize they can't get what they want out of you anymore.

[–]VicariousWolf1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not to mitigate her reaction but she is also bipolar. Im still glad she did me the favor of removing me from her life. It was awful.

[–]Wilmay6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This hits very close to home: I have developed feelings for a coworker with whom I have been fuck-buddies for about 3 weeks before she left the company. Now we see each other with former colleagues from time to time and nothing has happened ever since, despite my clear messages and invitations.

Even though she knows that I want to keep being "more than friends", or I'd even be down for a real relationship, she keeps wanting to see me and telling me how much she likes me... with nothing in return anymore. I am starting to realize that in the end, she just wants my attention now. She wants my feelings for her to be an approval of her self-worth and there is no way we can actually have something serious. But I am still kind of hooked by the possibility of going back to being fuck-buddies, even though I know that I'd want even more once I am in bed with her...

I have been asking myself ever since she left whether or not it's worth it to keep on seeing her just for the possibility of having sex with her again, or if I'd be better off just telling her I need space because I definitely have feelings for her.

Truth is, I know the answer, but I can't bring myself to do it... or maybe I should just keep seeing her as a friend but put boundaries on our obvious flirting, so as not to be hooked again...

[–]RoyalPinecone3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just tell her straight up “look I want to fuck. If u dont fine, but if not just leave me alone” and dont give a fuck if u ever see her again. Don’t waste ur time

[–]hakubamatata1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My gawd you sound and come across as desperate! I can see she’s probably regretting the times you did bang. She likely never wanted it to be more than sex for fun (NSA) and you changed the contract and decided you wanted more and more after the contract ended.

What would a chad do? He’d have options, he’d treat her with respect and respectfully keep enjoying life and moving onward and upward. He’d be focussed on areas of his life that matter...

Pussy makes us make stupid decisions. Go on a 2 night hike or something my dude... unplug from the matrix for a bit... regain your self respect!

[–]pigeoncalledjeff 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

So how do you become that other guy, the one she was seeing that was seemingly out of the picture?

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The information is all here. Sidebar can be considered the main hub. Just gotta connect all the dots and internalize the information, and go out and start applying it in the field.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Same as everybody else......don't shit where you eat. There are lots of women out there that are hotter than her and won't jeopardize your job/career if she decides you "make her feel unsafe".

[–]truedemocracy33 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, as someone who has experienced this recently, corporate gossip is a womans game. You cannot play it, and if you do you will fucking lose. Just being a man puts you at a disadvantage. It's like being Ned Stark in the first season of Game of Thrones. Put your head down and cut out the bull shit.

[–]mitzibishi 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Don't orbit. Don't leave comments on social media like "gorjus", "stunning", "10/10"

Tha goes for reddit and cam thots.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't leave comments on social media

That's something I don't do. Never have, never will.

I don't use social media. Waste of time; the social proof doesn't outweigh the overwhelming negatives.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

The people that do that are so pathetic. The first time I saw that I actually couldn’t believe that there are guys that would do that.

[–]geo_gan0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

there are literally thousands of them.. a cam thot goes on for 1 hour on live cam, and gets thousands of views and gifts which are worth real money... she is literally only there to extract money from idiots who throw it at her... she doesn't know them from Adam and doesn't give two shits about them either. Did you also ever see how excited they get when they see the big gifts coming in? A massive seratonin boost when they see $$

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

No different from stripping I guess, except why don’t the guys just go to strip clubs? I hate them but it has to be better than giving money to cam girls right?

[–]geo_gan0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're correct. At least in strip club, she has to actually look you in the eye and do some fucking work for you for a few minutes and pretend to be interested. On these cam sites I see people throw gifts worth hundreds of dollars/euro in one go and they get fucking nothing for it. I have even seen on for example the chaturbate one, where the girl specifically gives a menu with what she will do for x amount and the most difficult/least liked by her is most expensive, and yet some idiot just throws a 10x tip at her for nothing. She just sits there and says thanks, or is already in middle of something else. I don't know what goes through these guys heads at all sometimes.

[–]adirp 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

You probably could have banged if you didn't repeatedly say you "have feelings for her." Next time, with another gal, it's better to say "I'm not interested in anything platonic, but if you want something romantic let me know and we'll make some plans." Or something similar.

There's no need to tell them you have feelings, that will only hurt your game. It freaks women out when a guy is falling for them that early on. Just keep your mouth shut until she confessed her feelings.

[–]le_wolfe1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women are for fucking, not socializing.

[–]nofilmynofucky1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you continually admit to a girl that you have feelings for her, of course she's going to pull this shit

When/if a girl pulls this shit, the correct response is to just shrug and walk away. Telling her that you need space to get over her only places her firmly in the role of leader

Next time just laugh it off, make fun of her and then tell her to piss off cos you've got work to do

[–]ApexmanRP1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"I've had to give her 3 warnings, each increasingly more brusque."

No, my friend you played it like a little bitch all the way through.

"I told you it hurts me to see you while I'm still attracted to you"

That's not you being strong. Every time you say something like this, you give her a little rush of validation. That's why she kept coming back.

Indifference, is your ally here.

[–]3chazthundergut3 points4 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Remember, this is all 100% your responsibility.

Take a look at yourself dude. "I still have feelings for you" "this is painful for me" blah blah blah. It hurts to even read this shit.

You sound like a needy bitch. No wonder she doesn't want to fuck you.

Stop talking about it. Be about it.

Stop giving time & attention to chicks you aren't fucking this includes conversations like: "I really like you and hope you change your mind about me and give me a shot BARF

Stop obsessing over this bitch and go meet some other chicks. And don't do it as a tactic to win her over. Genuinely move on. That is the only way forward.

And enough blaming chicks for your needy behavior. If a woman was willing to come over and suck my dick without me having to take her out on a date or spend time on her, I would let her do it in a heartbeat. Same with you and her, but reversed. Of course she wants to have a friend like you in her life. Stop blaming her for your inability to set boundaries and your lack of abundance.

Put in the work. Transform yourself, transform your life, and pursue other women.

Good luck dude.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

No disrespect, I appreciate you taking the time to reply but I think you missed some details of my post.

I have taken responsibility and a good look at myself and made the realization that I need to change.

I was a needy bitch. I am working on that.

I'm not obsessing over her anymore. This wasn't a post requesting advice on how to deal with her. It was to give a field report that might help people who also are beginning to wake up. I'm simply not hiding how BP I was about the situation to begin.

I'm through the anger phase, I'm not blaming her. I know full well I caused this.

But all that would have been good advice otherwise, and I'm sure some people need to hear it.

I guess I'm just saying I dropped plenty of lines in there that indicate I'm making progress and moving forward.

To be fair, I get that it hurts to read shit about beta infatuation, and you've been doing it a lot longer than I have. I see the same and worse on askTRP all the time and cringe ever since I read the sidebar in it's entirety the first time. Im not all the way there, not everything is completely internalized, but I've started the journey.

[–]3chazthundergut2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Good man.

I tend to be pretty ruthless about this stuff. It's not to be an asshole, but rather because I think the painful truth is the best medicine. And I only know that because I've been there myself plenty of times, and still fall into beta habits.

We need to keep each other sharp and on point. And that means pointing out the blindspots caused by our ego.

Sounds like you're taking the right steps, and you definitely have the right mindset. Keep it up.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I tend to be pretty ruthless about this stuff. It's not to be an asshole, but rather because I think the painful truth is the best medicine.

I felt the knee jerk need to defend myself because I wasn't asking for advice and it seemed people's replies were ignoring the progress demonstrated as well.

But after giving serious consideration I did in fact see the blind spots being pointed out about how I could be doing even better with it.

I'll keep it up, and hope to see you up there in EC land in a couple years.

[–]MikeHock-1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Currently going through this situation as we speak. This girl at work is solely using me as a personal work attention dispenser. She acts like she wants to do stuff but whenever I ask she has an excuse. However instead of letting it drag on for months I just got distant (thank you redpill). Stories like these give me hope, whenever you see field reports these guys seem so Alpha from the get go. What you don't see in the process are stories like these. I still have a long way to go, been lifting heavy, buying better clothes and plan to finish up my degree. But when I finally share my progress I'll be to include the good times and the bad times as well

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Glad I could inspire hope! My intention was mostly to do that. Show people someone breaking free of shit, still fumbling a bit but also definitely not the same old mindset. I thought it was important to pull back the veil on how I was acting toward her while still BP, because people have a tendency to down play/gloss over their mistakes. I wanted people to see in detail some of this back and forth, and people are right--it was pathetic. I was pathetic. Never again if I can help it.

Wasn't looking for advice since I already decided not to shit where I eat and complicate things further (reason I didn't post in asktrp) , but the advice I got did help me see some blindspots in how I perceived my own actions, and how I could have approached it differently when she began expressing IOIs again.

[–]lifegifted1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

she just wants a friend who she can cry to and drink wine with.

and you want what? to get her love? or to bang her? or "try" some relationships? strange...

as i understand your story:

  1. in first phase you make friends with her, hang out, talk and other friend stuff with subtle intention to something which can't you can't even describe (I asked her out != make my intentions clear). So she recognized you as a friend, that wants something, but she is not interested in you as a lover. Personally - I understand her - it's hard transition. It's easier to make love to stranger than to a friend.
  2. After she finds a lover and throw you out as she doesn't need you so much, and then get back when situation get bad. And here you put her down instead of offer a nice fuckdate describeв like just talking remembering old times.

Your life, your choice.

[–]ZeroSixNiner1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

So it seems this thread has morphed into storytime. Okay, I'll bite.

I'm in a similar situation. First, I do believe in not shitting where you eat, so ultimately, I won't let this get too far. My current work situation has me paired up with a chick in a sort of partnership. Our work overlaps, and we always have to collaborate for either of us to complete whatever tasks we have to do. Over time, two threads have sort of developed.

The first thread is that this is a girl I get along with really well. Good rapport and professionally, we click. We banter a lot, and I flirt with her, but only as a case study. Test for reactions, learn, calibrate, test again-- that sort of thing. No intentions other than as a case study. It keeps things light and fun, and there is high comfort level.

The second thread is the unintended side effects. I'll cut to the chase, I wouldn't mind throwing her against a file cabinet and making her scream my name to the rafters, and I have to keep that wholly in check to avoid the usual drama. It can be hard sometimes, especially when in the course of our interactions, she hits me with those "fuck me" eyes and my dick immediately goes upright. The takeaway, I suppose, is that my tactics are successful in creating attraction. Still, I'm always aware of the boundaries and am adamant about not crossing them. It's my ass on the line.

Here's the catch, though, and why it seems so easy to let yourself develop feelings for coworkers. Depending on how your work area is arranged, this is someone you probably spend more time with than anyone else. 8 hours or more a day, 5 days or more a week. It's like high school all over again, and even worse since in school you might not have your object of attraction in all or any of your classes. So it's easy to develop a bond over something you have in common, i.e. the job. Whatever you do, do NOT let yourself get weak and cross that line. If you're flipping burgers to make right-now cash before bouncing to the next gig, I'd say it's not that big of a deal, but if you're in your career, it's no bueno. There is no pussy in the world worth fucking up your livelihood over.

[–]truedemocracy35 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yep, dont shit where you eat is great life advice. But you are around these people 40 hours a week and go through common experiences. You also will develop cabin fever for coolleagues (i.e. a 5 at your bar becomes the office 8). It's VERY easy to get attached. Happened to me twice, both with women who were engaged lol.

[–]ZeroSixNiner0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, the girl in my case is engaged too, which adds another layer to the whole case study bit. AWALT plays out right before my eyes. On the one hand, she spends her break times at her computer looking up wedding shit, and on the other, I'm pretty sure if I dropped my guard and escalated, I could make a cheater out of her in no time.

[–]truedemocracy30 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

LMAO same thing in my boat. She would always ask me out to one on one lunches, text me, give me IOI's (aka unnecessary touching of chest, arm, bicep), despite also planning her wedding. idk if I could make her cheat but damn bitch slow down

[–]huge_gap1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you're on the right track, but instead or being candid or serious about it with her like "Have things changed?" Instead just be friendly and funny and act like nothing is amiss. Be friendly and normal with her when you happen to cross paths or she visits. Keep gaming chicks and moving ahead. You'll be surprised she might want to fuck when she sees you doing so well and acting so comfortably and normal.

[–]SteveStJohn1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Even when a woman has no intention of ever becoming sexual with a “maybe” guy, his attention still has some value to her. It appeals to the long term prospective for security that’s a continuous subroutine running in her hindbrain. This is the rudimentary psychology behind hypergamy."

-Rollo, Lady's Game

[–]truedemocracy31 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

As painful as this was for you the fact that she saw another guy FROM WORK while making that excuse will serve as helpful down the road as she basically thrusted TRP deep into your throat.

When a women says she doesnt want a relationship and gives you a reason it's almost always BS. This isn't necessarily her fault - she is trying to get out of saying 'no' with as little feelings damage as possible and "you're not good enough" would make her the bad guy.

Never believe the reason a women gives you for this. Really for anything. Because for the right guy it wouldn't matter. I've been in a similar boat and yes it sucks. But really just have to focus on yourself and you will get over her, and maybe even one day laugh at the thought of dating her.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually don't harbor too much resentment for her.

Her blatant contradiction was actually what really enabled me to swallow the pill. Before then there were others I orbited similarly, and all their excuses felt like bullshit but were never anything I could really prove.

[–]StinkyDogFarts1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't fuck around with girls on the job if you like your job.

[–]-Mavs1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Everything is good but the part where you tell her "it pains me"; I don't agree with telling a cunt how much something affects you.

It's better to keep this to yourself and not explain the situation to anyone; rather work on it within yourself.

[–]TheEnglishman280 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You talked to her about your deep feelings.

Don't ever do that.

[–]webguy19750 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She sounds like a BPD candidate. Steer clear.

[–]Gemini_PI0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So she told you she was already seeing someone, then you take advantage of someone else sexually and selfishly to get over your mommy issues. And you can’t figure out why you won’t have a chance with this person?

Jesus. 😂😂😂

[–]BobbyPeru0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have a simple solution. I don’t orbit girls. They orbit me.

[–]iphar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Either grab her by the pussy or not. What's this half ass 'I still have feelings for you' bs.

[–]redxpills0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Always remember rule number 1: don't shit where you eat.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Imagine if this shit was reversed. She keeps coming by your desk looking for quasi sexual attention. That’s sexual harassment with a capital H.

[–]Lambdal70 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You approached the problem incorrectly.

When she is "getting over" someone but wants to spend time with you, just grab her and escalate verbally and physically, sexualize the conversation, do push and pull.

Then she has the choice of being sexually available and you being emotionally available, or her not being sexually unavailable and you emotionally unavailable. Put her on the spot, let her make the choice and move on.

[–]Canwang 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Here's the thing, she's just a dumb cunt, slutting around, as they do. You should have told her, " I have enough friends, I'm not looking for any more." Ghost the bitch until she's begging for your dick. DO NOT TELL HER YOU HAVE FUCKING FEELINGS FOR HER. Bro, that's pussy repellent. If she never comes around again, who gives a fuck, AND, the bitch works with you?! That's a huge mistake about to blow up in your face.

I'm mgtow, but for Christ's sake, the mistakes you made are blindingly obvious.

"Treat them like dirt and they stick to you like mud."

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

the mistakes you made are blindingly obvious.

All your advice is solid for that situation. But did you miss the part where I didn't have RP knowledge for most of this? They're obvious mistakes now. They weren't when I was plugged in.

[–]Canwang 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

My apologies, bro. It makes me so mad when I see dudes fall for the same traps I did 5 or 6 years ago when I discovered the pill. When I posted my sob story, I had a commenter rip me a new asshole about how I should have known better. I suppose it is the circle of life.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

No worries. Better to get some unnecessarily harsh advice than to miss something that needed saying. I knew it came from a good intention. Appreciate it.

[–]Cthula-Hoops0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

I really don't understand this as an introvert. I mean I do like getting positive attention, its just the need to have CONSTANT attention is baffling to me. Like for fucks sake, I only need one person a year to give me hungry eyes to feel like a sexy mf.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Look up attention and validation on this sub. Lots of posts about how they are basically their currency.

Maybe they're just raised with so much of it they get addicted. That's my thought. Women receive so much from guys after they leave the nest.

Most men get none and learn to get along without it.

I was raised (feminized) by a single mom, no father figure, and wound up an attention/validation hungry person. It's taken me years to move away from that.

[–]Cthula-Hoops1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Well its good you're making progress. Do keep in mind that everyone does need attention and validation to an extent, even introverts. I can go a whole month without intentionally seeking somebodys attention but I still get butthurt when somebody I don't even know is critical of my art online.

Its good that you're learning to be self reliant especially being a man. Just know that no matter how you were raised its okay to need a hug or a confidence boost from somebody. I spent my young adulthood being very emotionally closed and it was not a fun time for me. Take all the validation you can get but its good you're learning how to live without it.

[–]it_takes_the_redpill[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Just know that no matter how you were raised its okay to need a hug or a confidence boost from somebody.

I'm trying to get used to this. For me, breaking free of the trap required me to just all our reject attention/validation for a while, and grow comfortable like that. It's taking some getting used to letting myself actually appreciate validation, but I'd rather be here than where I was a couple years ago.

[–]Cthula-Hoops0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You'll get there. Even without significant effort likely. These things just get easier with age, especially if you're in your 20s. Five years will make huge difference in your perception.

Edit: Lighten up a little too. Don't beat yourself up about falling for their tricks to seek attention or whatever. You should keep flirting with her even if its not going anywhere imo. It can be fun and can be good practice for courting somebody you end up actually caring about. Just because you took the red pill doesn't mean you can't enjoy the benefits of a blue-pill society.

[–]Y34rZer00 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good post, very good points

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This really hits home. Im in a similar situation with a girl from my job. I have completely stopped orbtiting around her and now she wants my attention. Too bad because she’s not getting it. I work with mostly all guys since it is a warehouse and she is the only girl in the department. All the guys chase after her and I tried too and got nowhere. What’s even better is that i’m going to change to the morning shift so I wont have to see her ever again.

[–]hakubamatata1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol if you lived with options you wouldn’t care whether you see her again or not...

You show your cards without realising it..

Think about your self respect, what would a Hugh value man do and fake it til you make it!

[–]thetailbiter0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Feels bad man. Still getting over a similar situation myself

[–]bravo69600 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It took me finding someone else before I noticed I was in that sort of situation. Lead on for years. Even said if she was single by thirty she would stay with me. I was oblivious and she was hot.

[–]geo_gan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

ha ha.. literally... "i will put you on the end of my long list of potential fall-back betas... if they all fall through, you're last option"

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would especially be careful in a work setting. After you shutting her approach down on multiple times, I would not be surprised if she went to HR to throw some allegation at you. " Hostile work environment".

It's not a "what if" situation, its a situation I know that happened to someone I'm related to. Never shit where you eat...

[–]JerryLawlerPigFace0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A very down to earth post. A lot of the times we just like to ignore the fact that we’re human beings with feelings, and can develop strong feelings towards other people. Especially as guys, we hate to admit that we’ve caught “the feels”. There’s nothing wrong with admitting you fell hard for someone, and that those feelings are still there as you try your best (TRP, monk mode) to get over them.

Good work my friend.

[–]Carbuncl30 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My general rule of thumb is that if it's not an enjoyable process at least in someway then something is off. It should feel natural (once TRP is digested and integrated).

[–]yellowboy2120 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

nah sounds like you fucked up. you never give ultimatums or put it so bluntly like fuck me right now or don’t talk to me

[–]GanksGriefersForFun0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The ones who care about you are the ones who will leave you alone without getting so offended acting entitled af to your attention. All this crap about calling men entitled comes from women who want hundreds of likes on their photos and an inbox flooded with messages from men. They want your attention because they know you feel a type of way since you openly admitted it. Not all men admit such strong emotions. These types won't leave you alone because they already got to know you and can reap the benefits of a relationship without doing the romantic shit in return.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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