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Had "The Talk" about Having Open Relationship with My OLTR Candidate

November 5, 2018
70 upvotes

I've been actively gaming and being TRP aware almost 2 years now which has made me convinced that spinning plates and/or being on OLTR (Open Long Term Relationship) is the way to go.

I had my first official "the talk" (ever) with a girl I've been seeing for 7 months now. She has impressed me over the period of 7 months in many ways and shows a great amount of LTR potential. On general level:

  • No drama whatsoever
  • Not using any typical female manipulation tactics
  • Stable background (with some level of mommy issues tho)
  • Always willing to have sex as I want and how I want.
  • Tries to make my life easier in everyday tasks
  • Doesn't bitch about where or when I go (altho couple of times she has expressed that "she doesn't know what Im doing" - meaning she thinks I might be fucking other girls, which I do)

The Talk

Yesterday I went to visit her and we had a little chat until she brought up the topic of our relationship status. I was about to initiate this conversation myself in the next couple of weeks so I though the time was right and we started talking even tho it would have been better if I've done the initiation.

Well, as you may guess, there was a lot of tears from her although I managed to stay calm even tho it was heart breaking to see a person you care about to fall apart like that. To keep this short, she first started to open up about:

  • Me texting her rarely (I text only for logistics)
  • Us not seeing more than once a week (I don't see the girls I'm dating/plating more than once a week)
  • Not opening about my feelings (being stoic)
  • How she wants security/certainty in her life (read: from the relationship - she is 28yo, wall is closing, SMV is going down and she knows it)
  • She is worried that I like younger girls and I would dump her in couple of years for younger one (Result of my frame and passive dread and I havent exactly said that I like younger girls but she has read it between the lines - again, she knows the wall is closing)
  • She wanted to know "what's next" in our relationship if nothing. (Trying to lock me down seeing my high value enough and fearing that some other girl catch me + once again - wall closing)
  • The way she talked gave me an impression that she really had pictured me as a LTR partner regardless of her hunch about me being with other girls etc. As she put it: "I knew this from the beginning" ("this" meaning -> she was suspecting me being with other girls)

After she had left some steam out it was my turn to respond. On general level these were the things I said (now, some of these may seem a bit apologetic/betaish but I felt like I had to go full in comfort with her but still holding my frame and being ready to walk away):

  • I told her that this is painful for me to say this because I know how she would react, how much I care for her and how I may lose her (she wasn't that into open relationships based on our earlier discussions about relationships in general)
  • Told her that I'm interested in making her girlfriend but only in open relationship because I don't do monogamy.
  • I opened myself up to create comfort and for the first time told her how much I like her, how important she is for me and how it will make me sad if she doesn't want to continue. It was interesting to see how mixed feelings she had. Basically I said that I want to have sex with other women too but at the same times she finally heard positive emotional words from me which she had desired to hear for several months. These words for the first time were a nuke level antidote for her disapointment.
  • Told her that she would be number one and I wouldn't hangout etc with other girls
  • Told her that I see this as a way which will be great for us in the long run.

After that I addressed her questions like:

  • What about STDs (Condoms, trust in this matter is important)
  • She doesn't want me to find "a better woman". (Said that I'm not trying to find better woman but in open relationship I can be true to myself and to the relationship and I could be 100% honest - something else than cheating in monogamous relationship).
  • She asked if I had been with other girls while we were dating (I admitted that I have been and said that we never agreed/talked about exclusivity - This was probably I mistake, I should have dodged the question and used plausable deniability by saying something like: "That's not important. The only important thing is what we have together"). Her response to my answer was that "I should tell you get the fuck out" -> And then more crying.

Summary:

It was really tough because I really like this girl. The vibe was really strange in a good way while we were having the discussion. She was crying, then kissing me, then taking a bit of distance to me, then hugging me, holding hands, kissing again etc. Internally it was a fucking rollercoaster for me too. Additionally I feel somewhat dumb to "voluntarily" initiate a possible break up. The hardest part for her seemed to be that I was fucking other girls when we were dating. Now the situation is that she wanted to end our relationship. Before I left her place I made sure that she knows that my door is open her if she decides otherwise but basically I expressed that I'm ok with her decision whatever it is. Now I think that I maybe should have stayed a bit longer and just fuck her. It was definitely a possibility considering her behavior during the talk (kissing initiated by her, hugs etc).

Now I'm just waiting to see if she contacts me - if she doesn't, it will be a shame. It all boils down to her attitude towards open relationships and how she seems my SMV (not too high to be unattainable in her eyes, which she actually could be thinking based on her opening up and not too low to agree having open relationship). For my own surprise, I'm actually dealing with the situation pretty well on emotional level (no need for self-pity spiced tears on the pillow). I'm not sure is it because I prepared myself well to lose her or because I'm pretty confident that she will reach after me in couple of days.

Now I may have forgotten something because the situation was kind of intense. Also this was my first time attempting to have official OLTR so I definitely made some mistakes but that's how you learn. Hopefully this gives some insight of what to expect for others who may attempt forming an open relationship.

TL;DR Had a talk about having an open relationship with a girl I'm dating. Lot's of crying and intimacy back and forth. Learned that I had held my frame really well for past months. The Relationship is over if the girl doesn't contact me anymore.

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Post Information
Title Had "The Talk" about Having Open Relationship with My OLTR Candidate
Author Zech4riah
Upvotes 70
Comments 20
Date November 5, 2018 11:56 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/had-the-talk-about-having-open-relationship-with.163660
https://theredarchive.com/post/163660
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/9ucwa2/had_the_talk_about_having_open_relationship_with/
Comments

[–]AriesAsF 62 points63 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

No woman with traditional family values is ever going to be ok with an open relationship. And the ones that are, are generally trash. Feminine, women who have been reared properly want security and a strong man to have children with who will exclusively dedicate his resources to her and her offspring. Female reproductive strategy 101. She made the right call for herself, because you aren't that man. And bravo to you for letting her know that and letting her move on to find someone with more traditional values and a better balance between alpha strength and beta provider. Women need both and you haven't grasped the duality that can and should exist with a self-aware masculine framework. But you aren't looking for a wife or to reproduce, so like I said, bravo. You did the right thing. But if she is truly as great as you said (no drama, stable, not manipulative) its likely because she is comfortable and secure with herself and her needs, and likely will not settle for a situation that is incompatible with her reproductive strategies so I wouldn't hold your breath on her coming back.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

better balance between alpha strength and beta provider

I think it goes beyond that. I think it's about leadership. Circumnavigating the earth as a lone sailor is challenging and exhilarating, all men should try something like it. In order to be captain of a ship, whereby you are in charge of, yet responsible for, the behavior and care of others is task fewer men can master.

Plating HB9's is being that lone sailor. Taking a well raised HB9 on as crew is that next level. So many men fail at this that TRP writes off LTR's as being "for cucks". No, the humiliation that can come from being a poor leader is akin to being a cuck, but being the true captain of a ship is not. It is an honor, a responsibility, and an adventure all itself. Because keep in mind, you're still battling the ocean whether you're alone or you have a crew.

I suggest some of you fuckers start taking sailing lessons, or join the infantry, so you can learn the difference between leadership and mere administration.

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fun Fact: Women Hamsters can convince themselves of anything.

[–]Zech4riah[S] -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

No woman with traditional family values is ever going to be ok with an open relationship.

That isn't exactly true. Many experienced guys can agree with this.

Feminine, women who have been reared properly want security and a strong man to have children with who will exclusively dedicate his resources to her and her offspring. Female reproductive strategy 101.

True and agree, although OLTR doesn't take those things away. OLTR is a full on relationship with occasional side fucks.

And bravo to you for letting her know that and letting her move on to find someone with more traditional

Exactly, this is the way I can be honest with myself and her. I don't need to lie or cheat. She has the ball now and if she decides to chase for traditional monogamous relationship, where the alpha husband with options cheats her in the end, she can go for it.

But if she is truly as great as you said (no drama, stable, not manipulative) its likely because she is comfortable and secure with herself and her needs, and likely will not settle for a situation that is incompatible with her reproductive strategies so I wouldn't hold your breath on her coming back.

Agreed but like I said, this was first time for me and still learning. Next time I may be picking a different kind of girl who is a bit more open to the idea of OLTR.

[–]karmalizing 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That isn't exactly true. Many experienced guys can agree with this.

Typically only starts after they've had their kids.

[–]KillaJewels 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Honestly, sick post bro. And good for you. The way you handled it was very mature. For better or for worse, situations like this aren't cut-and-dry. There are so many ways it could have gone, so don't beat yourself up over it, no matter the outcome. And never discount the idea of "randomness".

One suggestion I have is to screen very early on for OLTR. If she's bisexual, that's a plus. You can even involve her in threesomes (or more). The more you can involve her, the more buy-in and comfort she'll have via trust ("we" frame). In this way, you kill two birds with one stone and have sick reference experiences to add to your game arsenal.

[–]Zech4riah[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hi, thanks for the comment.

Yeah I was thinking about giving an analytical update some time soon where I went wrong and what I could have done better and what I have learned.

One thing would have been the thing you mentioned; Screening the girl better but I sort of knew what I was doing. I chose this girl because I knew that she would barely use her permission to fuck other guys and I knew that it would be really tough for her to accept OLTR and there was a good chance that this would fail. And thanks for reminding about "We frame", that was definitely missing in my "Talk" even tho we weren't discussing about threesomes. I should have reinforced that thought more because in my opinion it creates comfort but doesn't exactly reduce attraction/value.

Now the situation seems to be that it's over because she haven't contacted me (other than couple days later to check if she needs to test STDs) so I won't be contacting her until 4-5 months mark, if I even want to do that then because I've already replenished the roster with a good new OLTR candidates - altho I'm not sure if I want to try this again with women who are about to hit the wall. OLTR seems like a really big issue for them.

[–]RedHoodhandles 77 points78 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

What about her side of the bargain? You proposed an OLTR, meaning she gets to fuck other dicks on the side. I tried an OLTR once. Spending your time, money and emotional support on one woman while she gets fucked by strange dick is a shit deal. And no, I don't care how many women you fuck on the side.

I think the only way this would work for me now would be in a polygyny kind of deal. Do you lick her? What if she tells you she just got fucked yesterday by some rando she met in the club. Would you still ram your tongue deep inside her where less than 24 hours was pulsating another dick? Oh I'm sure she used a condom.

I'm not telling you what to do here, just trying to warn you. I'm curious what other users have to say about this as well.

[–]Nov51605 12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If the rando is black, i propose the name, "Rando Calrissian" as a reference

[–]ElegantCyclist 16 points17 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

What about her side of the bargain? You proposed an OLTR, meaning she gets to fuck other dicks on the side. I tried an OLTR once. Spending your time, money and emotional support on one woman while she gets fucked by strange dick is a shit deal. And no, I don't care how many women you fuck on the side.

OLTR is closer to "glorified FWB" than it is to a relationship in which the guy subsidizes the woman.

IMO, guys don't realize the gap between open relationships from the superior position, vs the inferior position.

[–]LucidCunning 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she's independent, he has no power to stop her from riding other cocks. If she's choosing to be dependent on him, she doesn't get to be with other guys.

[–]RedHoodhandles 2 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Yeah that's just semantics. Every guy needs to know for himself where he draws the resource investment line with a girl who isn't exclusive with him.

[–] points points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]RedHoodhandles 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes I actually bothered reading the link before replying. And I disagree with the author. Thinking about going to sex parties with my plates/fwbs deeply disgusts me and sends shivers down my spine. As if this would be some next level sex game. Yikes. But whatever floats your boat man. Or his. I hope you read the comment to his post as well.

[–] points points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]RedHoodhandles -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What is the point you are trying to make? It seems we are both arguing against the same thing we both agree on.

Again:

OLTR is closer to "glorified FWB" than it is to a relationship

Yes. I agree. You may call her FWB. You may call her OLTR. (It is semantics..) THe point is: She is more than a plate.

You spend non-sexual time with each other. She would be a rank 2 based on HumanSockPuppets hierarchy and, as he so nicely reminded me here, she would have to be exclusive on her side. Neither OP, nor you, nor the author of your quoted article, are making this differentiation.

The last one does quite the opposite:

Sleeping with a chick for a couple months, until she’s into you, then taking her to sex clubs or similar venues, and building up the idea of consensual non-monogamy in her mind, can retain her, increase novelty, and make it somewhat easier to sleep with new chicks.

https://theredquest.wordpress.com/2018/01/21/sex-parties-and-sex-clubs-could-be-the-next-level-of-game/

And there you have it. No. Thank. You.

And yes, 100 times yes, of course, don't marry. Ever. Whether you're mono, or open, or poly or whatever..

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

What about her side of the bargain? You proposed an OLTR, meaning she gets to fuck other dicks on the side.

That would make her a plate.

Bear in mind that men and women are not identical. A woman's value goes down the more dicks she's taken; a man's perceived value goes up.

I have a couple of OLTRs. I made it clear from the beginning with both that I am not monogamous. They offer their own monogamy in exchange for more and better access to my time. As long as the deal holds, fine. Once it doesn't, we're done.

[–]RedHoodhandles 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Did they overtly offer it? Did you push them in the direction so they would get the hint? How did you close that one sided deal?

[–]Senior Endorsed ContributorVasiliyZaitzev 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Girls: "Hey let's be exclusive!"

Me: "Hey, I like things how they are, so let's keep doing that"

Girls: "Hey, I could go date other guys!"

Me: "Please do...it's only going to demonstrate to you what a prince I am."

Girls: {Bitter lemon face.}

If a girl wants to be a plate, fi

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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