~ archived since 2018 ~

Having female friends is built-in dread

September 22, 2014
403 upvotes

So about three months ago, one of my neighbors (male) was chatting with another of my neighbors (female) at a block party down the street. They looked really friendly, chatty, close. My male neighbor has a pretty hot wife – a stay-at-home mom, two kids, one of them less than a year old. But she still takes the time to work out and dress cute, keep house. Not a bad woman, at least from what I can tell from the outside looking in. He travels a lot for business, but gets to work from home when he’s in town. Nice guy. Makes okay money, really likes yardwork, builds shit around the house. Doesn’t really dominate the social scene, but not really a loser. Not super-manly-man Rambo or anything, but he holds his own.

I comment to my wife that our neighbor’s probably cheating on his wife with that woman he’s talking to, and she laughs at me. Do I have a guilty conscience, she asks. Why do I see adultery every time a guy and a girl talk, she asks. I shrug, and tell her, “Men and women can’t be friends.” That sends her over the edge, so I back-peddle a little bit and try to couch my words in woman-speak, “Look, it’s just different when a man and a woman have a friendship. There’s always that undercurrent there. Because sex is possible, you think about it, she thinks about it, everybody who sees the two of you together thinks about it.”

“You honestly think every man who talks to a woman wants to have sex with her?”

“Pretty much. I mean, there are occasional exceptions, but if I’m a betting man playing statistics, then yes.”

“So when you talk to a woman, you want to have sex with her?”

“Duh. But don’t let it get to you. I’m a man. If I weren’t married and had the time and opportunity, I’d have sex with a full third of the women in the city. I don’t waste time talking to the ones I’d never consider sleeping with.”

“So you’d sleep with [woman I was just talking to]?”

“Heck yes.”

“You’re an ass.”

That’s actually how I turned things around with my wife. I became friends with a female coworker. This was before our men-and-women-can’t-be-friends conversation that day. That’s how I knew that despite what she said that day at the block party, my wife knew darn well that I was right. Every night I worked late, every time I grabbed a beer with the office after work, my wife knew that she was there, and it scared her shitless. A single, age-appropriate woman, who might be interested in me, who respected me professionally and personally and valued my opinion, and was prettier than my wife, spending time with me. Buying my beers, to boot. Honestly, I don’t think my wife was afraid of actually losing me. She just thought that, God forbid, she might have to up her game or something.

Anyway, I was right about my neighbor. His wife’s two cities over with her parents and the kids. He’s trying to make things up to her, I think.

So my wife’s been being a bitch lately. She’s really been slipping, which means that I’ve been slipping. New job. Really difficult work, but good money, and a good career move. I’m working my ass off all day supporting the family, so my wife’s forgotten that I’m a badass.

Now, if I really wanted a divorce, I guess I could talk to her about her feelings and mine and try to communicate more, but I kind of like having my wife and my daughter around, and living in my house, and owning my assets, so I took an approach that actually works instead. My former coworker’s been having a hard time at work, so I invited her over for drinks to vent a bit. Nothing unseemly. My wife’s home. Our daughter’s home. Honestly, I’d have met her at a bar or something, but the weather was shitty, and I keep good beer in the fridge. We talk innocuously about work the whole time. But she vents, and I listen. So right there, in front of my wife, I’m totally paying attention and being an emotional tampon – for another woman. Nothing inappropriate. I’m being a perfectly polite, nice guy beta. For someone else.

That’s a great trick to get to your wife or girlfriend in line, by the way. Take note. If you want to dread a plate who respects you, you have to be a manly-man alpha winner and go game girls in front of her. But if you want to scare a disrespectful wife or girlfriend, give the beta comfort they’ve been trying to beat out of you to someone else. That makes them feel like a failure. They’d rather you fuck a million other women than be emotionally close with one.

So while my female friend’s over, she chats with my wife. She plays with my daughter – that really gets to my wife actually. How good she is with our daughter. My wife sucks with our kid most of the time. Then, she mentions that she and some of her family are going to do something fun the next day at an outdoor venue and invites us. I say sure, then look at my wife and ask to make sure we don’t already have anything scheduled. That was her out, but she admits that we don’t, so it’s on the books.

I wake up the next morning, and my wife asks me how we’re going to fit our daughter’s nap into our busy day. That’s code for, “Text your female friend and tell her we’re not coming.” I respond, “She can nap after [event].” “But that’s too close to dinner.” “We’ll deal with it. So will she. We’re raising her to be an adult. Adults like you and I don’t sleep at exactly the same time every day.”

I head to the gym. About the time I’m heading to shower, my wife texts that she’s not feeling well. I’m not letting her have this one. I text back that maybe she should stay home and rest, and that I’ll take our daughter out to give her a break. I then tell the guy with the locker next to me, “Watch this. My phone’s going to buzz in 3…2…1…”

Shit test time: “You’d like that, wouldn’t you?”

“Sure. I love rolling around in the grass with our kid.”

“I mean going without me. You don’t want me there.”

I figure she needs some reassurance: “It’s not a family outing without you, and I’d strongly prefer you there, but not if you’re not up to it.” I brace for it…

“Family outing my ass! I’ve been telling you that we should take [daughter] to do blahblahblah one of these weekends for months, and you barely respond, but when [female friend] invites you out, you jump at the chance!”

“[Female friend] actually planned the event. And it’s today, not one of these days. All we have to do is show up.”

“Sure. Go have fun with your girlfriend.”

Now, I don’t actually want a divorce, so I didn’t actually take her permission to go have fun with another woman literally. “Put your clothes on. If you’re not dressed when I get home, I will. You’re still not over the fact that a friend of mine happens to have a vagina?”

“You said it yourself. Men and women can’t just be friends.”

Shit. She actually listens when I talk! Maybe there’s hope for her yet. I then ignored the next dozen texts while driving home, because texting while driving is stupid. So is texting your wife when she’s being irrational and is supposed to be getting dressed so you’re not late.

I get home, and she’s dressed, because after text #12 of no response from me, she figured she’d better get her clothes on or I’d actually go without her. We go out, we have a great time, and we go home. She liked the venue so much that she wants to take some of her friends out there next month.

We actually waste words when we say “Men and women can’t be friends.” All you really have to say is, “Women can’t be friends.” Women can’t be friends with anybody. Not even other women. And they know this. So if you have a female friend, they know what’s up. If you’re married, women friends are built-in dread.

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Post Information
Title Having female friends is built-in dread
Author Archwinger
Upvotes 403
Comments 106
Date September 22, 2014 4:27 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/having-female-friends-is-built-in-dread.21563
https://theredarchive.com/post/21563
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2h3jsh/having_female_friends_is_builtin_dread/
Comments

[–]SgtTRP91 points92 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I loved this bit:

Now, if I really wanted a divorce, I guess I could talk to her about her feelings and mine and try to communicate more, but I kind of like having my wife and my daughter around, and living in my house, and owning my assets, so I took an approach that actually works instead.

Actions speak louder than words.

[–]orographic 25 points25 points [recovered] | Copy Link

If you want a divorce go to marriage counseling

[–]GIGANTIC_NIGGER_DICK0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Kind of struggling here to exactly understand this comment and the one above it, what exactly do you mean by that?

[–]1aguy01167 points168 points  (21 children) | Copy Link

Be careful with this. Women will forgive physical cheating at a higher rate than emotional cheating. You want her mind to conjure up images of you fucking a girl that's younger and hotter than her, not images of you being some girl's beta.

Women know that emotional investment is different than physical investment. A man's physical investment is cheap. It takes a few minutes to satisfy him, then he loses interest. She's only losing you for a moment. A man's emotional investment is not cheap. A man gives his resources to those he is emotionally invested in. That is what she really fears losing.

Tread carefully..

[–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion65 points66 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Keeping female friends is not the same as emotional cheating. It may just turn out to be the start of it... or even more... but it is not emotional cheating in and of itself. Furthermore, it progressing that far remains upto her.

Similarly, keeping female friends can become dread. But it is not automatically dread game. I think what the OP does is a little bit different.

Here's why: Dread game is a demonstration that you do not have a scarcity mindset, and have no inhibitions about leaving where you are unhappy. It is the implicit statement that if she does not add value to your life, you will find it elsewhere. You will replace her. And most importantly, it is her belief in your ability to do that.

So, a woman losing your attentions is NOT dread game. Its not just silent treatment or some childish threats to leave. Dread game is a demonstration of chemistry with another woman. Something your woman can mentally contrast to what exists between you two. She will want to compete with it. That's what I think the OP does. Just having a female friend isn't enough. Having a female friend who is higher value than her and who values/admires you and shows it is dread. The chemistry being emotional or sexual doesn't matter. Those are just different flavours, suited to different situations.

[–]suloco15 points16 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Good stuff! I love how in this subreddit it's just value and then more value in comments.

I must absolutely agree that having female friends (close friends) is a latent dread.

I was at a bar, showing up for my mate's gig and brought my gf and a friend (F). Me and F go back a long way and she is very immediate person. All evening she was touching my leg at the bar, more touching when laughing etc. I responded in amused manner and paid balanced attention to gf and F. Mix in some short interactions with random girls and the results were in.. oh so in :D.

This stuff definitely works but one needs to indeed tread carefully and keep balance.

[–]garbonzo6074 points5 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

There seems to be doublethink going on here. Can you have women friends or not? Another question, can you be friends with a gay guy? The possibility of sex is there too.

Also, just because it's a woman does not mean I want to have sex with her, most women are not my type, statistically. So in that way they are basically like guys to me.

[–]anonlymouse-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You can, but it just doesn't help you if your LTR thinks that's the case.

[–]suloco-1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It is possible to have 'female friends'. They are the girls you'd probably hook up with under different than current circumstances.

IDK the lingering tension as well as opportunity to study female mind from another angle is good enough reason to keep a female friend (as long as there is mutual understanding and value in the relationship).

But I would be the first one to argue it is completely different deal from guy (=true) friends.

Also I find it so weird that any friendship involving women just does not feel like a real friendship. Poor girls, who's having your back?

[–]nomdplume6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

IDK the lingering tension as well as opportunity to study female mind from another angle is good enough reason to keep a female friend (as long as there is mutual understanding and value in the relationship).

This is a small but substantial part of why I maintain my female friendships.

But I would be the first one to argue it is completely different deal from guy (=true) friends.

I don't know. I have some close guy friends, but they really do no more for me than my female friends.

If I wanna spontaneously go grab a beer, watch a movie, or go snowboarding, guy friends are the best. Ditto if I need help moving or fixing something, or if I need some manly pep talk.

But none of my guy friends have ever thrown me a party, made me (and my wife) dinner, crafted me a gift, helped me when I was sick, helped take care of my kid in an emergency, etc.

Yes, my female friends are slightly more flaky than my male friends, but I wouldn't say they provide any less actual value in my life.

EDIT: Plus, the social proof hot female friends provide is PRICELESS, lol.

[–]suloco-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If I wanna spontaneously go grab a beer, watch a movie, or go snowboarding, guy friends are the best. Ditto if I need help moving or fixing something, or if I need some manly pep talk.

See the difference to me comes when the chips are really down. When I am fucked by life I my mates have my back in a way none of my female friends can ever emulate. To me the female friends are more or less hang-out or party buddies. I like them but I do not rely on them in the way I do on several of my closest mates.

Also theres this thing that once both of you are available it tends to complicate things a bit. I mostly try to keep them firmly in 'friend' position but yknow.. temptations!

[–]nomdplume1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I am fucked by life I my mates have my back in a way none of my female friends can ever emulate.

I found that to be true when I was younger. Now older, I find that I really don't count on any of my friends having my back. I know they mean well, but everyone is busy with their own life, and no one is really in a good position to pick me up if I need something. We're all kinda on our own. Learned that the hard way a few years ago...

To me the female friends are more or less hang-out or party buddies.

That's pretty much all my friends, at this point. I love hanging with my bros, too, but since my women friends tend to bring stunning good looks and plenty of demonstrative affection to the party, I tend to enjoy their company as much, if not more, than my guys, lol...

Plus, I find that my female friends tend to initiate more social activities, and given that my life is insanely busy, I tend to just go with whoever asks. So, women.

[–]colovick-2 points-1 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

As was said was said elsewhere, it's not that men can't have female friends, it's that women can't have friends at the same level as men. There's always a competition on some level or something to gain or something to show off.

Also, it's not that you can't be friends with the opposite sex, it's that you can't do it without it revolving around sex on some level.

[–]garbonzo6070 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, it's not that you can't be friends with the opposite sex, it's that you can't do it without it revolving around sex on some level.

That's what I mean. Can you be friends with a gay guy? The possibility of sex is there too.

[–]topspeedj2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Makes sense, I think the trick is not to talk about your interactions with the female friend too much, leave some of it to her imagination.

Do the Geth normally know that much about TRP material?

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 11 points12 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

A marriage or LTR needs a mix of attraction and comfort-building behaviors if you're maintaining it properly. So your dread game needs the same mix. She needs to worry about losing what she has. A wife has more from you than a plate. If she sees you being all alpha asshole fun guy with a woman, she'll just get pissed off. If she's actually worried that you might one day commit to another woman and have feelings for her, shit gets real for her.

But as with regular dread, in fact even moreso, never do anything overt. Just chat politely like a normal person, and her mind will do the rest.

[–]nomdplume5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If she sees you being all alpha asshole fun guy with a woman, she'll just get pissed off.

My wife loves seeing me be all alpha asshole fun guy with women - she knows I'm playing them and coming back to her, and she loves seeing me make other women either A) want to fuck me, or B) dominate them into acknowledging me as an alpha-badass.

What pisses her off most, for sure, is seeing me become the Nice Guy, emotional tampon, white knight, beta-orbiter around other women. She doesn't really like me being that around her that much (unless she really needs that from me in a specific situation), so if/when I'm like that, it better only be that for her...

[–]1aguy013 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I know you know what you're doing, but for everyone else, the image you want to have is one where women are falling over themselves to make you fuck their brains out, but you choose only your LTR. She wants a man that can have anyone, but chooses her. It's one thing to flirt with a girl that she knows you could fuck, but if you did you'd leave that bitch and come right back to her because she's the only one you care about (DHV). There are lot's of relationships where this happens, with the girl's knowledge, and she's cool with it, so long as she's the only one you actually care about. She wants the hypothetical "He could leave me in a heartbeat, but we have something special!", not "I think he's leaving me for that girl...". Rubbing her face in your friendships might be good as a last resort to curb bad behavior, but I wouldn't overuse this kind of dread.

You can let other riders ride you, but you better not go back to their stable.

[–]nomdplume0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This describes my relationship with my wife precisely.

the image you want to have is one where women are falling over themselves to make you fuck their brains out, but you choose only your LTR.

And I think this is a key distinction - most women (not all, of course) are looking for this. They don't actually want you to fuck all those women (do so and you're on very thin ice with most women), they just want you to know you could fuck them, those women to know you would fuck them, but then you pull the "Not gonna happen 'cause awesome LTR - see ya'!"

I assert that nothing, nothing will make a LTR hotter for you.

[–]ziggitypumziggitypim0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

200% truth. Excellent comment.

[–]nomdplume3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You want her mind to conjure up images of you fucking a girl that's younger and hotter than her, not images of you being some girl's beta.

Truer words have never been said.

My wife would (begrudgingly) approve if I went full-on Alpha and railed a little hottie. She'd probably even be a little proud of me (since I don't make that kind of shit happen very often).

What she hates is seeing me get all beta-orbiter around some other woman. She can respect me getting mine (especially on obvious one-offs), but WILL NOT respect some other woman getting hers from me. I use them - good. They use me - bad.

And that's why she would only be proud of me railing someone younger and hotter - that's all about my squirrel finding himself a nut. But she sure-as-shit doesn't want to see me being a nut...

[–]AgentSmith274 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm predicting divorce within 3 years.

Very young child (which equals two stressed out parents), the husband spending a strange amount of time with an attractive female colleague and it sounds like he is getting emotionally attached to her.. The wife is getting paranoid because the husband is not hiding the fact that he's falling for someone else. One, or both of them, are likely to step out and attempt to jump ship. Maybe I'm just really cynical, but I've seen this happen more than a few times. Considering the failure rate of marriages, I think this is about to implode.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You sound like my wife. Sipping a beer while sitting 8 feet from a woman while she complains for 30 minutes straight, throwing in a "Yeah that sucks" every few minutes is not "emotionally cheating."

But it sure makes the wife shape up.

[–]AgentSmith277 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hey, you said it yourself... "women and men can't be friends". Yet, you seemingly go out of your way to include this woman in "family functions", marveling at how good she is with your kid... saying how you are this woman's "emotional tampon". Clearly there is more to this than just making your wife jealous. No one spends that much time and effort for just that. Whether you admit to it or not, you're seriously into this girl. No one does all of that, and is proud of it, unless that is the case.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying you are "emotionally cheating". I'm saying you are likely to actually cheat in the near future. I'm not judging you, and while I could be wrong, that is what I saw when I read your post.

I also saw that you are clearly unhappy with your wife, her mothering abilities, and your current relationship. I saw that you are working a new stressful job with longer hours, away from her, while probably spending some of your work day with this girl... In these circumstances, the scenario I've painted is just very common.

On top of all this, if your wife thinks you are already cheating, she may consider that a "free pass". Even if you haven't really done anything wrong, making it look like you have can cause her to lash out (especially if there is an emotional investment).

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wake up the next morning, and my wife asks me how we’re going to fit our daughter’s nap into our busy day. That’s code for, “Text your female friend and tell her we’re not coming.”

So many men know and see this. Yet have no idea what to do about it then fold, fail the test and lose respect from their woman.

Thoroughly excellent throughout Arch.

[–]mydarkmeatrises29 points30 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

That was a great read, much better than the usual, "bro, I was a bar and held frame with this hot piece of ass. Later that night, I was blasting her face like a Jackson Pollack." that we've been getting as of late.

The psychology of women is convoluted compared to men, but very simple once you understand it.

[–]Irrelevant0Nonsense1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's sadly true. One of the best ways I ever heard it explained was "women are desperate for approval, and if you don't give it to them they will work harder for it." What I've come to realize is with the exception of a few unicorns, there is no right and wrong. There is what they like, and what they don't like. But the difficult part is what they like and don't like can change on relatively short notice. Like the original post described, one day he was an asshole for stating a fact - men and women can't be friends. Later on, he was an asshole for having a friend that was a woman. Even though his views never changed, he was wrong in two polar opposite contexts - because the woman didn't like it.

[–]psugrad9814 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This reminds me of something my dad always said. He's dead now, I wish I would have picked his brain. He basically said this.

"Women are no fun, they only cause problems. It's why guys fight when they go out. They are fighting over women. Guys when they go out by themselves they have fun. Men dont' want to to hang out with women. Hell, women don't even want to hang out with other women".

[–]Merica91110 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay, so I get the whole point of your story and I wanted to point something else out. For a second SHE TRIED to put you in a 'lose & lose' situation where girls normal (unconsciously) do to their man.

The part in when it was decision time whether in actually going to the party or not and she provokes multiple times NOT going and gave some bs excuse (daughter needs to nap & she's not feeling good at party time).

Now if you would of 'simphasize' with her bullshit and didn't go, mark my word, when judgement day comes, she'd be the first to bring up that 'you're not outgoing and YOU don't wanna do shit with the family' .

From you holding your mother fucking frame and putting your foot down and kinda saying "this family is going to have fun whether with you or without" (and actually having fun at the party) you pretty much saved your marriage.

Keep up good work in keeping the relationship an even balance of some (not all) womens and some mens emotions.

[–]ProjectShamrock22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's an excellent tip. It has served me well on numerous occasions. In one case, a former coworker that had a crush on me ended up being friends with my wife. This former coworker got married to a guy that looks a lot like me but with a different hair color, and their daughter is now one of my wife's students.

On another occasion, a female friend at work invited me family to stay with her after a hurricane knocked out our power for more than a week. We still hang out a lot more though, lunches, happy hours, carpooling, etc. but my wife has complete trust in me so I don't get complaints about this.

Oh, and a final one, at least one of my wife's close friends has a crush on me. When she and my wife get together for coffee or whatever her friend sometimes says good things about me or expresses an interest in my activities. It's very one-sided and I like hanging out with her husband some but it helps to have another woman singing your praises to your wife.

Overall it seems beneficial to be openly hanging out with other women. That way your wife knows that you aren't hiding anything, so you are trustworthy. At the same time, your SMV is higher because other women are interested and since women don't trust each other, it makes the situation seem less of a sure thing to the wife. It's win-win.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

brilliant read, I was there with you the whole way, even have mental images of all characters even though you didn't describe them. Hope to see more LTR material on TRP in general, it's so fucking hard, I can't even begin to contemplate marriage game.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW1621 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We actually waste words when we say “Men and women can’t be friends.” All you really have to say is, “Women can’t be friends.” Women can’t be friends with anybody. Not even other women. And they know this.

This. This. This.

Women are shit friends.

[–][deleted] 12 points12 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]anonlymouse7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure you can. Just never make a habit of responding right away. Then everyone is used to the fact that you don't always respond.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW160 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm a millennial that has never and will never get a smart phone. I have seen all of my peers buy them, use them non-stop, obsess over them, cling to them. I don't see the value. Sure you can play games and use the GPS. But I don't require games and I always know where I am going. I only have a dumb phone for emergencies. The problem with the modern age is simply an abuse of technology. Take away the technology and life is simplistic and beautiful again (it is for me, anyway).

[–][deleted] 11 points11 points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. The tech itself is neutral. As men we should be able control how we use it.

[–]1xwm1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I use the maps to look at traffic sometimes. Also I find the games pointless, but some apps like the one I use to deposit my work checks to my bank is extremely useful (my nearest branch is way out of my way). Keeping track of event times with the calendar. There are other nice little features like that.

I agree with the other commenter. I am constantly ignoring g calls and texts because I am in the middle of something. I even have a pebble watch so people know that I've seen their text. I'll get back to them when I deem it my priority. (This also let's me screen for emergencies)

*commenting from a mobile while reading my morning front page before getting up

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW164 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

There are other reasons that I don't like phones besides playing emotional manipulation games with a woman. The greatest manipulation comes from our Big Sister government that uses phones to track everything we do. Every day the government becomes more totalitarian, and I don't want to be a part of that.

[–]1xwm1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree, which is why my phone is rooted running a custom rom. This is actually more secure than the old phones running stock os (assuming I trust the author of the rom, which in this case I do)

The only way I could be more secure is in not having a phone or carrying it with me, which sadly, in today's society, is not an option for most people

[–]ilikeurbootyimnotgay5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One thing I'd like to point out here is how you said the following:

"She's been slipping, which means I've been slipping."

This is something I've noticed with successful men, we understand when there are things we could do better, and we work to change the things we have control over.

This is also something I rarely see in women; the ability to take the blame.

[–]slippyweasel14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Rock solid, flawless execution. Brass Balls.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Damn your wife sounds high maintenance.

I mean, well played, but damn.

[–]tracer12332 points33 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

If you've got a woman with reasonable SMV this is the game you should expect and you should be able to deal with it like a man. You could always plate a landwhale instead and she'll Disney love you forever. It's your choice.

[–]Amusiastudio8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You could always plate a landwhale instead and she'll Disney love you forever.

hahaha well put. who the hell wants that?

[–]PlanB_pedofile6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Game gets exhausting. A disney love forever landwhale is like having that perfectly trained pet. Obeys, listens, loyal, and low maintenance.

Maybe more like that beat up car that just runs and runs and runs even when you forgot to change the oil in 3 years yet still keepa trucking vs that sporty car that emits engine pings because you forgot to fill with premium and needs a $200 alignment after hitting road kill. Sure is pretty and sporty but needs constant tlc.

[–]PrimaxAUS1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually no, there are women who are high SMV and low maintenance, but they're relatively rare and practically never westerners. My girlfriend is a very attractive surgeon who has a great head on her shoulders and is rarely bratty. She is the only woman I've dated who I can trust to be emotionally sane in public and require no hand holding in public events.

There has been a couple of times where she has started to act up in public, say when we're waiting for a restaurant that stuffed up our booking. I put my foot down about her behaviour and she pulled her head in and we had a good night. I'm pretty sure if I hadn't held frame she would have wrecked the night, and I suspect that the relationship would be like that if I was the man I was 5 years ago.

So anyway, I ramble. The point is that there are great women that aren't high maintenance, but a huge part of that is setting expectations.

[–]stickfiguresk3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Fantastic regaling. I laughed heartily at the wife's texts. Beautiful work. It kinda reads like Frank Miller wrote it.

[–]Toyu75 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This right here is key for a successful marriage. Simply amazing.

[–]bh324414 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

you're an asshole.

sometimes you need to be an asshole.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW168 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]edmproducerXX3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP forgets that women do listen and it's called selective listening. They will listen to only specific things - the ones they know can be used for argument later.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit man, bitches be crazy

[–]nomdplume2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you’re married, women friends are built-in dread.

Hmm, I might assert that that is true only if she knows/thinks that they would fuck you.

I have a lot of female friends. While most of them might fuck me if the stars were perfectly aligned, most of the time they have so many other younger, hotter, more available guys circling them at all times that the chances of them actually fucking me are pretty slim. If they were looking to fuck, they'd fuck one of them (which they do on the regular).

So I think I actually lose a certain amount of value in my wife's eyes by maintaining friendships with them.

With a couple of exceptions, though, our friendships are based around a multitude of shared interests and compatibilities, so even though my wife knows I'd fuck any one of them in a heartbeat, she also knows I have some legit reasons to be hanging out with them over anyone else. So she supports the friendships, while shaking her head with a bit of pity if she sees me sniffing for sex (not good for my SMV, I concede, but it's hard not to sometimes...)

[–]1KyfhoMyoba2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you lift? Are you a badass? The Most Interesting Man In The World?

Why not?

[–]nomdplume1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you lift?

Yes. Like pretty much everyone else in my social circle. Lifting is hardly an identifier.

Are you a badass?

Compared to? I can hold my own, but I don't know anyone who is 100% badass (and a few clowns who think they are but have no one but themselves fooled).

The Most Interesting Man In The World?

Am I the elite of the elite? Um, no. I'm an above-average Joe. More interesting than many, less than some.

Why not?

Nature? Nurture? Who knows? Have I done a lot with the cards dealt? Yes. Could I have maximized my stengths and resources better? Probably. Did I fuck some shit up being stupid in my past? Absolutely.

I'm human - awesome where I'm awesome, flawed where I'm flawed.

Being alpha isn't about fulfilling an ideal, hopefully...

[–]gregd282 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This gave me a raging dread game boner.

[–]1KyfhoMyoba0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Mine's bigger.

[If you check my comment history, you will observe that I speak of Dread. Game. in at least 2/3 of them. And if you listen carefully, you will notice the hushed and hallowed tone of voice.]

[–]fenhongyaowan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent post. When you got to describing the shit tests, I could guess them even without reading. It's refreshing to see other men dealing with the same shit I do. It's eye-opening to once again see that AWALT.

[–]Hypnot0ad1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good ideas. You should post this too /r/marriedredpill

[–] points points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]cashmoney_x1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

THIS. What a fucking pain in the ass. She gets to be her irrational self and you have to not only weather the storm but manage it in order to hold onto your marriage (which will mostly likely collapse anyway based on stats)?

No thanks. Did it once; never again. My home is peaceful and quiet and the only thing I need to manage is the decisions about what to do with all the free time.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“Sure. I love rolling around in the grass with our kid.”

This is the best sentence in the post.

It starts out "I love rolling around..."

queue image of you rolling around in the sack with said girl   

but ends with "... with our kid"

oh. motherfucking brilliant.

[–]Irrelevant0Nonsense1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You present a shining example of two common problems men experience with our female counterparts. 1 - women hate everyone, including each other. 2 - women don't agree with what's right, they agree with what they feel. She didn't like the idea of a man cheating on his wife with a female friend because you had a friend. It didn't sit well with her, so it isn't true and you're an asshole. But then when you want to hang out with a friend who is a woman, suddenly you're right. Suddenly she agrees men and women can't be friends and there's reason to be suspicious, because she didn't want you go. The merit of your statements never mattered to her, all that mattered was that you agreed with how she felt. That alone is concerning, I wouldn't rule out divorce. Or at the very least, counseling. If a woman doesn't respect your opinions, she doesn't deserve to hear them. They wanna be equal right? So hold them to the same standards you hold your male friends to. Don't hang out with the ones who aren't respectful

[–]babybelly3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

i always thought red pill stories have a part where she fucks you senseless

[–]Thorsvald0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Related question:

What do you call it when your wife hates your (hot) female friends, but insists you talk to them occasionally? She has previously gotten mad about us hanging out, because "she'd jump on you in a heartbeat if you were single". Does she think she can friend- zone me to my friend m

[–]Saturnalia930 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This brightened my morning, OP. Excellent story and delivery thereof. Thanks for the good tips as well, I hadn't thought of some of the things you brought up here.

[–]dousche0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As said earlier, be careful. You have to keep that fine balance, and dread her just enough to hint her that she needs to step up her game to not lose you. I like that you really gave her the idea that she's very much replaceable, even as a mother.

[–]reezyreddits0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Amazing read, thank you. This really stood out:

If you want to dread a plate who respects you, you have to be a manly-man alpha winner and go game girls in front of her. But if you want to scare a disrespectful wife or girlfriend, give the beta comfort they’ve been trying to beat out of you to someone else.

I'd also add that settling down with one girl sends your plates in a frenzy too. A day after getting into a relationship (happened on Friday, so the day after was Saturday) I was out at the bar and one of my past plates was surprisingly there, got real close to me and said, "Damn, why'd you have to get a girlfriend on me? Breaking my heart..."

Note to self: I should never start a relationship on the weekend. Me and the plate could have had amazing "get her out of my system" sex.

[–]note-to-self-bot0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A friendly reminder:

I should never start a relationship on the weekend.

[–]brotherjustincrowe0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I still say men and women can't be friends. It's a question of who's an orbiter for whom.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm having trouble interacting with women I'm not interested sexually in now that I have discovered the red pill.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is some serious frame holding and amused mastery. Really excellent examples.

I never considered Beta gaming another woman the same thing as Alpha Dread but it make sense in femineeze. You are giving away to another woman what she thought was locked up for her alone so it triggers competition anxiety. Arch is saying that Beta Game (i.e. friends) on another woman makes your wife wet just like Alpha Gaming (i.e. I could cheat and fuck somebody else).

This might be an important discovery and we certainly need it replicated. Get to work boys.

[–]aazav0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

But if you want to scare a disrespectful wife or girlfriend, give the beta comfort they’ve been trying to beat out of you to someone else. That makes them feel like a failure. They’d rather you fuck a million other women than be emotionally close with one.

That's the crux of it right there. Well done.

[–]87GNX0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

"if I really wanted a divorce, I guess I could talk to her about her feelings and mine and try to communicate more, but I kind of like having my wife and my daughter around, and living in my house, and owning my assets, so I took an approach that actually works instead"

Love it. Excellent field report.

[–]AlfaWolf0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is God Damn Sidebar Material.

[–]zarus0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

So how are things with her now?

[–]jrr6415sun0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have lots of friends who are girls that I don't want to have sex with. Most of them are ugly so that helps

[–]MLMIKE390 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men and women CAN be friends as long as there is no physical attraction between the two. Otherwise, one of them will end up in the friend zone. That's the only way men and women become "friends"... men always want to fuck.

[–]ModAerobus0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

What an amazing story. Good work manipulating her emotions. I'm confident you will be able to keep her in line. That said, tread carefully, like the top comment suggests.

[–]newlifeasredpill0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Great story. I keep reading that dread should not be overplayed. Can anyone enlighten me on when it's time to pull back? I have seen my wife's disposition turn so sweet and sexy in the last month but am afraid of overdoing this...

[–]ModAerobus0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Post a detailed FR, and towards the end, ask for advice. Tag some people, such as /u/Archwinger himself. I'm sure he'd be happy to give advice. Also, you should be able to find some info from some RP blogs.

[–]newlifeasredpill0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I will do this. I am actually afraid of my new powers. Effective yes.....dangerous equally so

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As a guy, you actually sound like a very hard person to be around. You're being a dick on purpose and you know it

[–]the99percent1-5 points-4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

interesting.. you say make friends with a girl, but end your ramble with:

Girls can't be friends..

and tbh, girls can't be friends coz they downright suck as friends and they use you as an emotional tampon.. why bother?

why put yourself in that position just to show you have dread game.. This advice is pretty much validation seeking.. you are maintaining an unwanted friendship for external reasons.

The best way dread game works is do your own fucking thing... Besides, you should be taking your kid out regardless of your friends invite or your wifes plans. That's what a good parent should be doing in the first place. What kind of terrible parenting uses his kid as ammo for a different agenda...

Do your own thing and make your own decisions. Your wife will fucking fall in line with or without you having girls as friends. A man who is quietly confident in his ability won't give a rats ass about trying to mind fuck with his wife.. He would just go out and do it for his own interest.

Terrible, terrible advice. Girls are useless as friends.. why would anyone try so hard to maintain one is beyond comprehension.. I keep my interaction with girls beyond the ones I'm fucking to a minimum. I only need them for favors. I certainly won't and never will go out of my way to hang out with any girl I'm not already fucking or plan to fuck.

[–]ohhaio1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

so... are you married? do you have kids? or any other reason to demonstrate you have any knowledge of married w kids life?

one of my gripes about this subreddit is that guys will spout opinions but we have no context to understand their background, experiences, situation, looks, smv etc... what works for a 10+ male adonis will not necessarily work for a haggard middle aged married guy.

[–]the99percent12 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

wtf?? since when has being married with kids been the minimum criteria to give your opinion on the matter?? There are plenty of BP relationships where kids are involved. Does that make them more qualified to give RP advise... Your thought process.. seriously.. wtf.

My opinion is pretty darn simple. Don't go out of your way to make friends with girls just for the sake of adding some dread game in your life. It is unnecessary and I'll use my relationship with my girl to show you how dread game works..

FYI, im in a LTR with a teenage girl, 9 years younger.. You think being married to a 30 something post wall girl is difficult? Try having a relationship with a girl who gets attention from any moving thing! If only you knew half the shit tests I get thrown on a daily basis. I'll give you a couple of examples..

I own a 8 and 1/2 year old dog. I'm playing with him in our back yard and she's watching us. Later in the evening, she and I have an argument over something stupid. She starts crying and walks out of my house saying I love my dog more than I love her. I'm dumbfounded but hold frame and say nothing nor call her to come back. I let her walk. Later she texts saying she's sorry and I was right but should not talk to her in that manner again. I ignore the text. 5 mins later she asks what i'm up to.. I make no apology or say anything about the incident, instead I tell her i'm about to watch a movie and she's welcomed to join. She comes over, movie gets cut short and we fuck.

Another example; We are at a seafood restaurant. She's giving me the attitude like she went out of her way to have dinner with me. She skipped Pilates to eat seafood with me even though she hates seafood. I don't care, seafood was what I wanted to eat and I'd still have gone with or without her. So there she sits fiddling with her phone whilst I look at the menu ready to order. I scan the room and select the cutest waitress I can find. She comes to take our order, now my girl is finally paying attention. I flirt heavily with the waitress. Compliment her jovial personality and asked some personal questions. I completely ignored my girl. I'm having fun that night no matter what and couldn't give a shit about her shitty, cold attitude. She finally catches on and tries to cut my convo with waitress short by hastening the ordering process. I was having none of it, me and waitress continue to ignore her hardcore and we carry on our flirty convo. After another three more minutes of chit chat, I ordered my seafood platter and lamb cutlets for my girl. I didn't even ask her what she wanted to eat. I just ordered. During dinner, she's still giving me passive aggressive attitude. I don't care, I'm enjoying my food hardcore. She notices that I don't peel the prawns and eat it whole. She tells me off and says I might cut my stomach. I eat another regardless in a nonchalant manner. Dinners over, I tip the waitress well and we leave. My girl, visibly upset and obviously had a shit night whereas I thoroughly enjoyed mine she breaks down crying, balling her eye out. She tries to guilt trip me for ruining her night and flirting with the waitress and ignoring her. She was trying hard to get a reaction from me. I ignored it and stayed calm as a fucking rock. I changed the topic and start asking her about her friend who got injured whilst playing hockey. She's confused for a moment but I press on repeating the question slowly and in a domineering manner. She stops crying and starts talking about the incident. I laugh because the story, when I heard how she got injured the first time round was downright hilarious. In less than two minutes, the mood completely changes and we are both laughing hardcore. You see, girls use tears as an emotional weapon and if you don't react to it, they will stop crying.. Our night continues being a pleasant one from then on out and we have sex and morning sex again.. She sweet talks me and tells me how safe I make her feel. Best feeling ever.

I do my own thing. I lift and have been for the past 5 years. My girl doesn't gym. She says she's young and doesn't need to gym to stay fit. Fair enough. I still go for myself plus it is easy to meet alot of beautiful women there. She now goes to my gym. Funny how she thinks going to the gym has benefited her physique.. She has never lifted and only does cardio with a couple of stretches. She Spends most of her time on her phone or walking around and getting eye balled by the men. I dont care, my gym is my alone time.. No distractions just 1 hour of hardcore physical exertion.

She sometimes points out whichever famous movie star and shit tests me with do you think he looks great kind of questions? I normally ignore, but she sometimes she presses on and asks for an 'honest' opinion. I say, yes, he does look great. She gleefully looks at the picture some more and tries to rile me up with more shit tests. She says if we break up, she'll only want to date a guy that good looking. I tell her I'm not worried. She asks why not? I look at the picture of the hot guy, I look at her, I look at the pic again, I look at her and finally I snigger with a 'you've got no chance expression on my face' and walk away.

I've just shown you 4-5 examples of how I effectively use dread game. None of my examples involved requiring manipulation or trying to one up her by having a girl as a friend. She knows her place and I keep her there. I am confident in my own ability and my willingness to walk is enough to keep her trying to satisfy me first and foremost and never the other way round. I believe if my method works on a hot teenage girl with clear options, there is no way it won't work on a 30 year old with none.. take what you will from it.

[–]prodigyx0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

FYI, im in a LTR with a teenage girl

This is a contradiction in itself.

And the nuances of a LTR with a woman who has been on this planet for more than 20 years seem to elude you. Your relationship is easy-mode and your advice would not work for OP.

[–]the99percent10 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

read my last paragraph...

I believe if my method works on a hot teenage girl with clear options, there is no way it won't work on a 30 year old with none.. take what you will from it.

This advice applies to a girl you've been dating for 1 month or 20 years.. You do what you want to do, the girl will fall in line. You do not need a female friend to turn the odds in your favor.. Heck, if you condition her to your treatment and expectations, by the time you guys get married it will be on automation controlled.. 40 year old me will always have options should I need to use it. You worried she might divorce your sorry ass? Hell, then man the fuck up and make sure you earn enough to support alimony payments.. that's all there is to it. It's better to take the financial hit than be shackled to a loveless relationship.. What are you? Not a fucking man that you can't take risky calls and need to resort to back-handed tactics to turn the tide in your favor? Stay true to yourself.. If you are going to live an RP life, then fucking do things that show it.

This advice OP has given is borderline BP. Why should I make friends with women and become a beta orbiter to them? Do you not realize what women do to their guy friends? fuck that.. Only interactions I want with girls are 100% sexual and I intend to keep it that way.. There is no girl in the world who I can gain anything from and dont merit the company of being friends with. If we are going to be friends, we each have to gain something from it or don't even bother.

Also, AWALT applies in RP. Do you all not read the fucking side bar? It is the reason why my kind of dread game works on anyone regardless of age or how long you've been in the relationship.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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