Holding frame isn't trying to control how people see you, it is trying to control how you see yourself

Hang10Dude · 2016-08-21T20:32:43+00:00

Frame is essentially Zen. Holding frame, at the deepest level isn't difficult, it's the easiest thing in the world. Why? When I'm in my best, most zen-like moments (which simply just means not being self-consious for once in your life), I don't even notice shit tests, it's like the girl (or whoever is giving me shit)isn't even talking about me, it goes right over my head, no damage done, and I'm totally unphazed. I'm so unconcerned with how people percieve me that anything anyone could say to me just feels like a peble bouncing off of your shoe. It's inconsequential and unimportant in every way.

In short, it isn't about passing shit tests and holding frame because that's how to get girls, it's about being so spiritually developed and grounded in your masculine identity that you're unaffected by external negativity (so there is no need to "hold frame").

I'm reminded of that quote:

Confidence isn't walking into a room and thinking that you're better than anyone else; it's walking into a room and not even comparing yourself to anyone else.

Now, the real question is how to develop that zen-like character. I think that that question is the reason the Red Pill exists.

kaane · 2016-08-21T18:03:59+00:00

Totally agree with you.

It is not about how to control the things happening around you, or your thoughts. It's about accepting who your are and finding peace within. Than you can go out and spread that energy in your life where you need it.

A man comfortable in his own skin would not think about "holding the frame", because he is almost always centred. Say something stupid, he doesn't care, try to shit test him, minds his own business.

You can't fake being a man. You either become one or you try to fake it for the rest of your life

Hang10Dude · 2016-08-22T00:36:51+00:00

People with strong frames usually aren't thinking about frames. They are typically people with tons of experience in the world, have had things going both right and wrong, and developing a frame is a natural consequence.

[deleted] · 2016-08-22T02:29:24+00:00

Think of it like a place of employment.

The boss/owner is the alpha and his workers are his helpers. Imagine if the boss has an emotional reaction to every shitty little thing his workers said behind his back? It would cause social chaos in the workplace.

Instead, the owner lets them talk their shit. He knows he's the leader of the show and that his workers don't have the experience to be fully knowledgable of what they're talking about. If the workers' shit tests get to the point of making the worker/boss relationship toxic or to the brink of a raw deal to the boss' misfortune, he just fires them. Hasta la vista, go bitch at a wall if you don't wanna work. You'll have plenty of free time to do so unemployed. Sure the employee might find new work somewhere else (or a girl might find a new dick to ride) but the Boss solved the problem for himself.

Boss knows that new better employees are just an interview away so there's no attachment toward holding that particular employee and their bad attitudes. If the employee was a good worker and actually gave a fuck about the company, boss might consider a raise or promotion (or promoting a girl to LTR status if she is qualified for the job).

Solution: Holding frame means being a boss. You run the show, not your fucking employees. It's good to get your employees feedback and concerns, but you make the decisions.

the99percent1 · 2016-08-21T18:31:17+00:00

Very true. Frame of reference is always thyself.

You should always strive to be emotionally unfazed by any situation. Girls will always be testing you. Testing your character, temperament, ability to handle stress and pressure.

You need to be as cool as a cucumber.

topapito · 2016-08-22T09:44:19+00:00

Beliefs. It's what it all boils down to. You analyze your beliefs system and make adjustments. When I was much younger, I had an older friend who always showed up with the best looking women. I mean knock'em dead gorgeous. He was short, ugly and skinny. He once told me that he never cared if other men hit on or stared, he said it made him proud. He cared not if his woman dressed slutty, all the better. He wanted them to be seen with him.

If you believe that a woman being unfaithful is a terrible, terrible thing, chances are that your emotional reaction to unfaithfulness will be in line with your beliefs. It is very easy to see, here on reddit for example, and even in this sub, that women are considered to be cheats and chase chad. So let's say that we decide that it is AWALT. Why would we negatively react to a cheating woman if we already had that "knowledge"? Because we believe it's wrong. We believe it demeans us if a woman cheats on us.

An alternative to this negative emotional reaction, and I believe the key to stoicism, is to change that belief. It does not reflect on you when your woman cheats, it reflects on her. If you in your mind believe it reflects badly on her, then your reaction to her cheating would be one of stoic reassurance of your belief. A very much different reaction than say, someone who believes that when a woman cheats it will show him up to be a loser.

Learning not to react is easy in hindsight. But very hard to get started. One thing that has helped me tremendously is to wait 36 hours to formulate any kind of a reaction to any situation. Catch your wife cheating? Walk away, no comments, no reaction. Think about it for three days. Obviously, the three days is orientative, but suffice it to say that reacting to any situation in life out of emotion is a very detrimental thing to oneself and usually ends up hurting only you. You can walk away and head to a room to cry, but never let anyone see you bleed. This raises your SMV as people are always left in awe of your stoicism.

Basically, and to boil this down. Just understanding your own belief system goes a long way to making a very big difference. While doing this, analyze what that woman looks like to you when she cheated. I don't mean call her a slut. That is part of the wrong belief system because it reinforces the fact that you choose sluts and causes unwanted negative feelings about yourself. Think more about her instability, her weaknesses and inability to make choices. In the end, you will walk away fortified while in your mind, you will be chuckling at her weakness and your not wanting anything to do with someone as incapable of making decisions in a life and death situation. Because sometimes, it is just that woman in charge of pulling the plug on you when you are at your lowest. You want her to have her hand on the trigger?

These kind of thoughts and conclusions do a lot to alleviate any hurt we may have learned from society about how to feel when any given circumstance comes up. I chose cheating because just because. It really does apply to every single situation we might be forced to face in life.

aRedThought · 2016-08-21T21:08:43+00:00

Someone's frame is particular to that person. If I'm a world class magic player and I'm trying to pick up a beautiful woman, I don't change who I am. I remain that magic god and see her as "what? you DON'T play magic? I would destroy everyone in here" etc.

Whatever your frame is, you have to keep it. You can't fake frame, it has to come from a true place within.

Hakametal · 2016-08-22T20:44:45+00:00

Reading this made me realise that the true realisation IDGAF is the holy grail of TRP. What you are describing is IDGAF in it's purest form.

The Red Pill just seemed to get a whole lot easier.

lanky32 · 2016-08-22T06:25:37+00:00

You are right. What you are saying is the epitome of inner game. It would be a dream to be in that state where you are truly ' unemotional and apathic' and are not affected by any situation or person.

For lesser mortals, acting stoic without actually being stoic is also a good enough intermediate solution. It is better than whining or raging in front of people and making a complete ass of yourself.

throwpillo · 2016-08-22T09:43:53+00:00

Many people try to convince others and themselves that holding frame means showing

Many people ... holding frame means showing

That's exactly it.

"Holding frame" as an outward demonstration or performance of some thing to some one(s) is exactly backwards and self-defeating and empty.

"Holding frame", for many, becomes a purposeful social performance, and creates a radius of faux-human stench around the 'holding frame' performer.

"Holding frame" is a term best thought of as a fucking reminder to track your attention and intention, know thyself, notice what tickles your nickels, and follow your own compass. Because Fun.

Therefore, "holding frame" is something to shrug off and forget about because 'holding frame' is dumb compared to the cool stuff you're on about.

[deleted] · 2016-08-22T11:55:19+00:00

Married man. Someone made a comment about LTR's with a term that really resonated with me: "Frame Maintenance."

So many of my buddies have turned into broken down dudes who have let themselves be walked on. The more they let go (forget?) who they are, the more their wives trample over, and disrespect them.

If you don't respect yourself, she won't respect you. If there's one lesson I've learned from TRP it's this : behind every crazy bitch is a complete chump.

awalt_cupcake · 2016-08-21T20:39:00+00:00

Sounds like a good way to become an autistic lizard-brain.

kidding aside, I believe you've got it.

[deleted] · 2016-08-22T14:26:04+00:00

When you see yourself a certain way, you act accordingly. When you act accordingly, people see you that was too. Actions speak louder than words and all that

ItsTheHomeWrecker · 2016-08-21T22:32:50+00:00

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TheYellowPill · 2016-08-22T00:36:18+00:00

I definitely agree with your perspective on holding frame. That said, just because you achieve this unshakable zen frame does not mean you can get complacent. Holding frame allows you to feel powerful, but true power is the ability to affect the reality around you.

beginner_ · 2016-08-22T12:04:47+00:00

When a girl cheats on you or dumps you for example. Trying to show her that you can easily replace her by going out with another girl isn't you playing your own game and moving on with your life, it is actually you getting into her frame of reference and trying to fix the emotional damage she impose in you.

Yeah this is hard and confusing. I lately was in a situation were my GF pissed me off (Note: we live together). I wanted to stay-in and relax because I came from 2 hrs playing soccer. So how to you react? Go out to show here you are pissed even though you wanted to stay-in? Or stay-in anyway and around her foul mood?

[deleted] · 2016-08-22T18:52:47+00:00

It could just be about being in a higher state and framing situations right. If you're in a place of giving good all the time then there wouldn't be shortage of people that want to receive. Goods you offer might just be enthusiasm, energy, understanding, friendship, small talk, and so forth. When you're in a position to give and expect less in return, then you have power and influence. People want good things in their lives, so they would always welcome it unless there is a misunderstanding.

[deleted] · 2016-08-23T23:05:10+00:00

I somewhat agree with this headline. I am leaving more and more political debates with my adversary A) believing he won, B) believing I'm a dumbass, C) believing I'm an asshole.

A big part of this was my move from the left wing to the right wing. When I was left-wing, I just couldn't stand A, B, & C. Now that I'm in the right wing, it's a very uncomfortable feeling but I'm dealing with it. It's really about self-discovery and living with yourself. That's frame.

the_simurgh · 2016-08-22T08:03:43+00:00

Girl cheats on you fuck her mom best friend or sister whoevers the hottest. If you really want revenge fuck her dad, brother or the guy she cheated on you with

Title	Holding frame isn't trying to control how people see you, it is trying to control how you see yourself
Author	103342
Upvotes	328
Comments	43
Date	August 21, 2016 2:11 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/4yv0xe/holding_frame_isnt_trying_to_control_how_people/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/holding-frame-isnt-trying-to-control-how-people.61659 https://theredarchive.com/post/61659