How to Stop Being Creepy and Needy

September 14, 2020
651 upvotes

Introduction

Most men fail with women for one of two reasons: 1) they are afraid of coming off as creepy or needy, so they don’t push the gas hard enough or 2) they are actually creepy or needy, so they push the gas too hard. This article is about striking the right balance between being aggressive and not overly aggressive. My goal with this article is to teach you what creepiness is so you can stop worrying about it and be more confident. Once you know what creepiness is, you can be more open to expressing yourself to women, not less.

Creepiness, neediness, desperation, selfishness, and beta behavior are all symptoms of the same thing: emotional overinvestment. Emotional overinvestment when you focus too much of your thoughts on emotions on a thing or person, which causes you to want it too much. It is ok to want to eat a sandwich for lunch, but it is creepy to think about the sandwich all day to the exclusion of everything else. It is ok to love your mother, but it is creepy to spend 8 hours every day talking on the phone with her. Girls want to be wanted, but not too much.

People emotionally overinvest for many reasons, with a major reason being scarcity. Scarcity is the feeling that 1) we want or need something, and 2) we have no easy way of getting that thing, so whenever we have a chance to get that thing we must focus all of our attention on getting it. Everybody needs to eat, but most people in developed countries don’t obsess about their next meal because they know they can get food whenever they want. But if you were starving and had no food you would spend all day thinking about food and you would stop at nothing if you thought there was a possibility of getting a sandwich.

Scarcity in turn is caused by a shitty self-image. We feel scarcity with respect to a certain thing because we subconsciously feel we are not good enough to get that thing. When the cashier at McDonald’s smiles at us, we emotionally invest in her because we feel like no other woman will want to have sex with us. Surprisingly, scarcity has nothing to do with how many women you have or can get: lots of attractive guys and even celebrities can get tons of pussy but still feel scarcity and act creepy. A guy can also have nothing and still feel abundance. Scarcity is a mindset: the difference between what you think you can get and what you think you need – by adjusting those variables, you can eliminate that mindset.   

Some of you may be thinking “this shit article does not apply to be me because I am not creepy or needy.” Bruh, you are probably a creep. All men have a natural tendency to emotionally overinvest in women, and even a little too much emotional overinvest will cause women to run for the hills. You don’t need to be hiding in her bushes with binoculars for her to feel uneasy. If you act just a little too emotionally overinvested in a woman, her subconscious mind will register you as a creep even if your actions are outwardly socially acceptable. Women have evolved a very sensitive ability to sense of what men are emotionally invested in, and if they can sense that men are emotionally overinvested in them, they feel a strong aversion, even if they would otherwise be attracted to the man.

Because humans evolved to “sense” creepiness, there are objective criteria to what is and is not creepy, and if you learn this criteria, you can  1) stop being creepy and 2) not have to worry about whether you are being creepy. Even if you don’t believe my theory, you need objective criteria to guide your actions because you absolutely cannot base your behavior on what women do and do not judge to be creepy. Women often have bizarre or stupid criteria for determining creepiness, they misjudge situations all the time, and they sometimes make false accusations of creepiness out of pure spite. More importantly, you cannot read womens’ minds so you have no idea what they will think is creepy.

The alpha male quid pro quo

The key to controlling your emotional investment in women is this: you must only do things for women after they have done something for you and only in proportion to what they have done for you. She should do something for you, you should then reciprocate, she should then do something bigger for you, you should reciprocate on a slightly bigger level, and so forth. By “doing things” I mean anything: buying her things, doing favors for her, or even giving her attention or looking at her. I call this rule the “alpha male quid pro quo” and I think it is the single most important rule when interacting with women.

The alpha male quid pro quo applies in every situation, with every woman, no matter how hot or important she is, and throughout the whole relationship, no matter how long you have known her. It applies in real life, over text, in dating apps, and across every category of your relationship. In addition, it only applies to objectively meaningful things she has done for you – actions mean more than words. If she has promised she will do a bunch of things for you, or gave you a bunch of sweet compliments, or texted you a bunch – she still has done very little for you from an objective standpoint. Just because you are thrilled to have a pretty girl text you does not mean she deserves a text back – she needs to do something to deserve it first. 

Humans evolved to view relationships as reciprocal exchanges, so if somebody proves themselves to be a fair and valuable trading partner we feel a deep emotional connection to them. Not only do we value the fruits of the exchange, but we also view the trading partner’s life as an extension to our own such and vicariously feel their joys and victories because we are helping them win and they are helping us win. Our subconscious mind keeps a tally of everything we have done for them and everything they have done for us, which is why we feel angry and betrayed when we do something for a person and they do not reciprocate.

But here is the strange thing: we also feel disgusted and repelled by people who do too much stuff for us we do not deserve. When people do things we have done nothing to deserve, we subconsciously feel we have incurred a debt we must repay. Our subconscious mind knows nobody does anything for free and somehow “knows” that the doer wants and expects something back. The feeling that somebody is fixated on you because they want and expect something from you is unpleasant, and we seek to escape that pressure by escaping from the person. This is why women often lose attraction if you ask them for things, beg, express disappointment when they say no, and give her stuff for nothing in return: their lizard mind senses that have emotionally invested in her and want something, and will stop at nothing to get it. And the truth is: her lizard mind is right: no matter how much you consciously say to yourself “I am just a nice, generous guy” your subconscious mind wants something from her and you will get mad if you do not get it.

Because of our subconscious propensity to view relationships as reciprocal trading exchanges, we emotionally invest in people after we do things for them. Person A may think person B is attractive, but person A won’t really emotionally care about person B until person A does things for person B. When I was in college, my guidance counselor suggested I apply to Yale Law School. I laughed – I knew my grades were not good enough but I applied anyway just to see what would happen. Before I applied to Yale, I had not cared about getting in, but the act of applying made me emotionally invest in Yale so I got very upset after I got rejected. The same thing happens with women – even if the woman shows you no interest at all, by doing things for her (even just texting her), you emotionally invest in her such that you get angry when she does not text back.

Most guys, of course, assume the opposite: they think if they do things for a woman first, she will like them more. But for the reasons I described earlier, doing undeserved favors actually repels women. The strange thing is that women may ask for these favors and even think with their rational mind they want them, but when you actually do these favors, their subconscious starts to produce a bad feeling about you, but she will eventually leave if the bad feeling grows large enough.

Whenever you are feeling emotional, irrational, insecure, or anxious around a woman, take a second to rationally analyze the interaction as a reciprocal exchange. Are you doing more for her than she is doing for you? Are you texting her more than she is texting you? Are you staring at her when she is not doing anything to merit being stared at? Are you waiting for her or doing favors for her when she has not done the same for you? Are you divulging deep secrets about your life when she is not doing the same? Because men naturally tend to emotionally overinvest in women, you should constantly be adjusting your behavior and attention to ensure that the interaction is a reciprocal exchange.

Women deeply want to form an emotional connection with the alpha male, vicariously experience his awesome life and gain access to his protection and resources – in other words, they want acceptance into his life. The alpha male grants this acceptance by paying the woman attention: women subconsciously know that a man’s attention is proportional to his emotional investment, and a man’s emotional investment in a woman is proportional to his acceptance of her. But again, if a man emotionally overinvests in a woman, she will not want his acceptance because she will have incurred a debt she must repay later.

Women feel more comfortable in relationships where the man has not deeply emotionally invested in them. If you do things for a woman only after she does things for you, you let her control the amount of attention she gets. If she wants attention, she can do things for you – if she does not want attention, she can turn it off by not doing things. This, by the way, is how you get women to “chase” you – by only rewarding her post hoc, she can further the relationship on her own terms. But if you do stuff for her first, you are emotionally investing in her and pressuring her into reciprocating, and nobody likes to be pressured. It sounds strange, but part of the reason women sometimes like men who ignore them is because those men are not pressuring them – the woman can jump in and out of the relationship whenever they please because the man does not give a fuck whether she is there or not. Of course at some point, you may want to enter into a long-term relationship with a woman who consistently contributes, but to do so you must find a woman who wants to consistently contribute and will always be more emotionally invested than you.    

Women have a very keen sense of their own value and a subconscious “attention sensor” which tells them why they are receiving attention. The moment the attention sensor senses that you are doing things for she has not worked for, it throws up a red flag and she starts looking for the exits. Womens’ attention sensor is extremely sensitive and largely irrational. If you are a successful, attractive guy with a fun life, it will not actually hurt you to bestow upon a random woman a free drink or a few minutes of attention. But to her subconscious lizard mind, even that little bit of undeserved attention indicates disproportionate emotional investment. This is why even a little bit of extra attention creeps women out.

Why Creepiness Sucks

Emotional overinvestment is unattractive for a variety of reasons, a few of which I describe here.  

First, when you emotionally overinvest in a woman, you usually subconsciously know something is wrong, so you start to censor yourself and act strangely. It is almost like your subconscious mind knows you are being creepy, so it tries to hide your real emotions and stop you from what you are doing. This is why creepy people are often anxious and are somehow “off” – their subconscious mind is trying to stop them from expressing their creepiness. But it is extremely difficult to hide your real emotions, so women can tell something is off because your words and actions are not congruent with your emotional state. Humans have a deep aversion to people who are non-congruent like this because we can sense they have some ulterior motive against us (because they do).

A confident, non-creepy man is congruent: his actions, thoughts and emotions align, and he feels no guilt, shame, or anxiety in a how he feels because he is not worried he is doing anything wrong. In a weird way, he is like an open book: when he says or does something, you do not need to worry he is lying or has some ulterior motive. But to be congruent you must first feel free to express yourself, and creeps do not feel free to express themselves because on some weird level they know their emotional state is wrong.

Second, emotional overinvestment just feels bad. If you’ve ever been obsessed with a girl or heartbroken over a breakup, you know that feeling sucks. You feel weak, inferior, dependent, anxious, and sometimes even depressed, lonely, or angry. Instead of focusing on your life’s mission and the things you that bring you happiness, you are focusing on a person who may or may not give a shit about you. An advantage of the alpha male quid pro quo is that your own emotions will tell you if you are doing it right: if your actions make you feel clear-headed, alpha, and strong you are doing it right. If your actions are making you feel weak, beta, and anxious, you are doing it wrong. If you text a girl and afterwards and move on to do the next thing, you are doing it right. If you text a girl and afterwards feel anxious and keep thinking about her like you may have done something wrong, you are doing it wrong.

Third, emotional overinvestment oftentimes becomes a vicious spiral. We emotionally overinvest in a girl, so we do things for she does not deserve, which causes us to feel even more emotionally invested, which causes us to do even more for her, etc… And the more we become emotionally invested, the less attracted she becomes, so the less she does for us, which causes in turn to do more to “get her back.” This vicious spiral is why some guys end up in jail for stalking the McDonald’s cashier when all she ever did was smile at them. We have all felt ourselves slipping into this vicious spiral at some point in our lives, which is why we become so horrified when see it in somebody else, especially when that person has emotionally overinvested in us. Because creepy people feel scarcity, they feel desperation, and extreme desperation is scary because it means you might do something crazy or violent to get the thing you want

If you knew a homeless man was starving and has not eaten in over two weeks, you would not walk by him with a sandwich because you would know he might do something crazy to get the sandwich from you. Not only would your rational brain logically know that he might become violent over the sandwich, but your emotions would also “feel” uneasy around him because we all subconsciously know how it feels to be desperate, and we can sense it in others. For the same reason, women do not like to be around creepy guys because they know those creepy guys might become annoying, stalkerish, or even violent. If a man acts even a tiny bit creepy, women can sense it and are repelled because their primitive lizard mind knows that that tiny bit of creepiness can blossom into something seriously creepy later. 

I have noticed that needy, insecure, and codependent people are more likely to be disgusted by people who emotionally overinvest in them than average people. I suspect this is because needy people are themselves more likely to fall into this vicious spiral of neediness, so seeing even a little neediness in others makes them assume the other person will fall into this vicious spiral as well. I suspect this is why women with “daddy issues” cannot stay in stable relationships: they are quick to emotionally overinvest in men, but the moment a man emotionally invests in them they freak out. The only way to “tame” a woman with daddy issues is to enforce the alpha male quid pro quo strictly, which most men cannot do.

Fourth, emotional overinvestment is unattractive because it subconsciously indicates to her that your emotional experience sucks. Women are constantly monitoring where a man is directing his thoughts and emotions, and if that man is emotionally overinvesting in people and things that provide him nothing in return, she will subconsciously feel like his life is not attractive. Think about it: if you are starving and talk about eating sandwiches for 8 hours a day, people with well-rounded lives are not going to enjoy being around you. Instead, they will feel sad and annoyed by you. In addition, women have a very keen sense of their own value, and if they feel like they are providing you little value but you are emotionally overinvesting in them, then they subconsciously assume the rest of your life has little value as well. This feeling is sometimes irrational, because giving women a little extra attention does not mean your life actually sucks, but the lizard mind is irrational.

Fifth, emotional overinvestment in somebody indicates that you are beneath them in the subconscious dominance hierarchy we all carry around in our heads. The dominance hierarchy stays together because the lower-ranked apes emotionally invest in the higher-ranked ones and do things for them, so if somebody emotionally over-invests in you, you subconsciously assume they are beneath you in the dominance hierarchy. People’s perceptions of the dominance hierarchy are completely irrational – if a billionaire does too much for a homeless woman, she may feel “higher” than him even though in reality she is not.

In addition, it feels bad when you realize you are occupying all of a person’s thoughts and emotions, because if you slip up and do the wrong thing they will become extremely angry and upset. Counter-intuitively, when you know that you are competing with other stuff for their thoughts and emotions, you feel less pressure. Of course, sometimes very insecure or weak people hold their nose and stay in relationships with people that are too emotionally invested in them because they prefer the shitty feeling of being pressured to the shitty feeling of being alone. And of course, sometimes women hold their nose and stay with men that are overly emotionally invested because they want money, a nice house to live in, social status, etc…

By the way, women can get emotionally overinvested too. In fact, when women emotionally overinvest in men, it is often much worse, which is why women get freaked out so much by men who emotionally overinvest – they know the feeling! I have always been surprised by how I get turned off by women who are too into me. I have had really hot and cool chicks blow it with me because they did way too much. On some level, I think I was afraid that I was feeding their craziness and if I didn’t dismiss them I would end up in a cage in their basement.

What can women do for you?

Women can “do” a lot of things for you: teach you something, entertain you, do errands for you, compliment you, buy you something, or simply contribute to a good conversation. The only criteria is that she must meaningfully and objectively contribute to your life. Texting you, complimenting you, and just being hot are contributions, but they are very mild contributions, and don’t deserve much in return. If a woman gets in a car and comes to meet you at a bar, it is ok to buy her a drink, but if she is just standing at the bar looking hot, then no.

To understand women’s contributions in a more abstract way, think of it like this: women contribute by helping you pursue your purposes, whatever they may be, and your purposes ideally involve venturing into the unknown, conquering some challenge, and bringing back some resource to share with those that have helped you. The more a woman “helps” you in your purposes, and the more important of the purpose she helps you with, the more she deserves. For example, a woman that helps you get a job at a company you want to work for is contributing way more than a woman who buys you a beer. And most importantly, women should help you pursue your purposes, not BE your purpose.

Most men fail the alpha male quid pro quo by doing too much for the woman. But some men fail because they do not do enough. If a woman DOES meaningfully contribute to your emotional experience, you should reward her proportionately to what she has done. Women seek acceptance, and if they feel like they cannot get it from you they will move on and get it from somebody else. A woman may be intrigued by a man who ignores her, but she will not want to remain ignored forever – at some point she will want acceptance from somebody, even if he is not her first choice. This is a very important point – women are VERY sensitive to rejection and the phrase “hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” is true – if a woman feels like you have affirmatively rejected her, she will never be able to trust you again because evolutionarily, rejection means that you left the woman in the woods by herself to starve.

The key to getting women to do things for you is to be very warm and welcoming so she feels comfortable putting herself out there. Women are terrified of rejection, so you must make her feel comfortable doing things and emotionally investing in you. You must also fairly reward her for her contributions to keep her feeling welcome to do things for you.

It is often difficult to determine what exactly is “fair” because it is impossible for you to accurately keep track of every single thing you have done for each other. As a man, you are also prone to emotionally overinvest in a woman, especially at the beginning stages of the interaction. Therefore, to be safe, you should do significantly less for her than she does for you, but not so little that she feels rejected. Getting good at this requires practice and “feel” – I can’t tell you what would be fair in every situation.

The more the woman emotionally invests in you, the easier it becomes to maintain the alpha male quid pro quo because she will constantly be doing stuff for you and she will build up a large “account” that you will be able to draw against without going negative. Women WANT to do things for men they are attracted to, and indeed your challenge will be to reward her fairly. But women normally take longer than men to emotionally invest, so you need to very cognizant of the alpha male quid pro quo in the beginning stages of the relationship, including when you first meet her.  

Escalation

Escalation is just a process you reward her for emotionally investing in you. The more she emotionally invests in you, the more she will feel attracted, and the more she will expect and desire for you to “escalate” by paying her attention, inviting her to do things, and making sexual advances. The key to escalating, however, is waiting until AFTER she has emotionally invested, which means you should wait until after she has done things for you.

Here is an example:

  1. She does something small for you (she gets dolled up and looking hot to go out that night).
  2. You reward her with a proportionate amount of attention (you walk up to her and say “you look amazing tonight”)
  3. She does something bigger for you (she smiles and says thank you)
  4. You reward her with more attention and escalation (you ask what is your name)
  5. Etc…

As the night goes on, the stakes get bigger and bigger. So later, for example she contributes by having a long conversation about something interesting, and you “reward” her for complimenting and then inviting to do something with you later. It does not matter exactly what you do, it just has to be proportionate to what she has done.

At some point you may accidentally press the gas too hard and show her too much attention or escalate too quickly, causing her to recoil or say no. That’s fine. Just act like nothing happened, withdraw your attention, and wait until she emotionally invests later. For example, let’s say you try to kiss her and she says no. You laugh, say something to show it’s not a big deal (“hey I tried”) and immediately go back to whatever you were doing as if nothing happened. Then later in the night when she is ready you can try again. When you get good at this, you will be able to “read” women and tell when they are ready for the next step, but until then, it’s just practice.

At any point she may stop contributing, walk away, do something shitty, etc.. In that case, you should just withdraw your attention and “get distracted” by something else. Oftentimes I will approach a woman at a party and when the conversation starts to go stale I wander away and come back later. You should not get butthurt, “call her out,” or complain – you should act like a little child that got distracted by some other shiny thing, so she feels like you have lots of options and do not get when one of your options poops out for some reason. You should remember that women take a while to emotionally invest in men, so if a woman ignores you or does not show you interest right away, it does not necessarily mean that she has something against you – you may have just not shown your life to be fun enough to yet.

Of course, sometimes women just do not like you, no matter how well you execute the alpha male quid pro quo. Or they may be shitty people that actively want to harm your life or take advantage of you. In those cases, it is fine to just withdraw your attention.

Beginning the relationship

If you have been following my logic so far, you may be thinking “if I were to follow the alpha male quid pro quo strictly, I would never approach or escalate with a new woman because they would not have done anything for me. This would make it impossible for me to meet women because most women do not make the first move.” This is actually an important point.

No matter what a woman has done for you, all women merit you approaching them once. Just the fact that they left the house, put some pants on, and tried to make themselves look pretty is enough of a “contribution” to merit you saying hello and introducing yourself. When women are getting ready to go out, they are dolling themselves up to impress the “alpha male” – they just do not know it is you yet. Of course, once you have introduced yourself, the onus is back on her to do something to merit more and deeper attention from you. But every woman gets one free approach. Not a drink, not a conversation, just a warm, friendly, approach.

Even if you don’t buy my alpha male quid pro quo theory, you should still feel comfortable approaching people because a pure approach by itself is never creepy. What makes it creepy is staring at her too long, sticking around after she has shown she is not interested in talking to you, etc… But approaching is a normal part of human interaction and is necessary for people to ever meet. Blue haired feminists that say you should never approach a woman are just stupid – they are confining themselves to a prison where the only people they will ever meet are friends of friends.  

The purpose of an approach is to communicate “I am warm, friendly, and welcoming enough to give you the chance to validate yourself to me.” Women are very sensitive to rejection, which is why they are so afraid to approach men they find attractive. Think of a tribe as hierarchy – the alpha male sits at the top of the hierarchy and the status of the individual members is determined by the alpha depending on what they have done for the tribe. The losers and enemies of the tribe sit outside of the tribe’s walls – they are excluded from the hierarchy completely. When you approach women, you subconsciously communicate “You can enter the walls of the tribe, but if you want to move up, you need to work for it.” And by the way, you should never “reject” a woman unless you are absolutely sure that your rejection is permanent.

I once joined a very prestigious law firm famous for being a meat grinder. They would hire 70-80 new lawyers a year but only about 4 or 5 would last long enough to actually make partner. During my second week, the firm’s most important partner approached me and asked me about a case I was working on. Despite my nervousness, the partner was very warm and friendly. And I can still remember like yesterday him responding to something I said by saying “great – now you’re thinking like a partner.”

Of course, that’s bullshit. I wasn’t even close to being a partner – I was just another slab of meat for the meat grinder. And like most lawyers the firm hired, I would probably not last long enough to become partner. If I fucked up he could fire me and give my work to one of the other 70 lawyers he had hired that year. But in that moment, the firm’s most important partner made me feel like I had a legitimate shot at succeeding in this law firm. And really, that’s the whole point of every approach – you are trying to subconsciously communicate to the woman that she has a genuine chance at joining your awesome life if she does a good job. The CEO walking up and shaking your hand does not mean that you are guaranteed to move up, but it least means you are not fired. And when you approach women, you should act as if the new hire is naturally eager to validate themselves to the CEO.

Additionally, to address this paradox you must realize that as the alpha male, it is your job to “find” what the woman can meaningfully contribute to your emotional experience. Women often have a lot to contribute, but you need to draw it out of them. A lot of women that look hot, plain, or boring on the outside actually have a lot of interesting thoughts and abilities and a strong desire to put herself at the service of an attractive man. If you are confident and creative enough, you can find something about almost any woman that she can contribute and that will merit you giving her attention and compliments. Think about it this way: the more you can get her to contribute, the more attention you can justify paying her. Of course, some women cannot and do not want to contribute anything to you, and that’s fine – you can just move on.

You can “draw out” what is interesting about a woman with targeted questions: the purpose is not to do an interview, but to find something about her that is fun and interesting she can share so you can both explore it together. For example, if you approach a woman and compliment her dress or something, you can follow it up by saying something like “but are you as interesting as you are hot?” Yes, that sounds corny, but it actually taps into a deep desire that every human being has: the desire to feel appreciated for some value.

Be Bipolar

Of course, in the real world random women you approach do not always immediately see you as the CEO they are trying to impress. In the real world women have no idea who you are and may have no desire whatsoever to talk to you. In the real world sometimes the intern says to the CEO “eww gross, get the fuck out of my face.” But nevertheless, you should still act as if you are the CEO warmly giving a brand new intern a shot at proving themselves. Humans see all relationships as power relationships, so the alternative to acting like the CEO is acting like a loser begging for her validation (or more abstractly, a loser begging for entrance into the tribe’s walls), which women are not attracted to.

Therefore, to successfully implement the alpha male quid pro quo you must sometimes act somewhat bipolar. You approach a woman with warmth and kindness but the moment she does not reciprocate you shift to your attention elsewhere as if she does not exist. You may need to leave a conversation mid-sentence without saying a word if she is not being pleasant. You may need to leave a date that was going well because it started going south. You may need to stare at a woman blankly or suddenly remember that you needed to call your uncle when she asks you to do something she does not deserve from you.  

Being bipolar is hard for many reasons. First, it just feels weird and is a change from how you normally act. Usually when you like somebody you continue to like them even if they start being a little shitty or distant – but being bipolar requires you to immediately do a 360. The hardest part of being bipolar is taking yourself out of the emotional flow of the interaction to do the “right” thing – you may be having a great time with a woman but still need to pump the brakes if she is trying to take more than she is giving. Being bipolar is also hard because women will beg, plead, and even cry for you to do things for them they do not deserve. They will threaten to leave, shame you, insult you, and try to make you jealous. It does not matter. You cannot give in. You must follow the alpha male quid pro quo. They themselves do not realize that they are begging for you to do something that will make them lose respect for you.

The key to being bipolar is to see yourself as an unemotional observer that pays women attention for their objective contributions, and not because of your own feelings. A good way to get acclimated to this new way of thinking is to commit to complimenting any woman you see who deserves a compliment: just make the compliment, smile, and leave. Some women may assume you are just another creep trying to fuck them, but once they see you really just wanted to pay a compliment they will appreciate it. As I stated earlier, understanding this stuff should make you MORE likely to approach, not less.  

Because implementing the alpha male quid pro quo is so unnatural and outside the normal way people act, at first you will feel strange, uncomfortable, or like you are being an asshole. And superficially you will actually appears to some people as being an asshole. But the alpha male quid pro quo "works" because it taps into something deep and primal about human beings: the feeling that we only deserve attention in proportion to what we have done.

By the way, when a woman does not contribute, you should not feel butthurt or angry, nor should you ever “call women out.” – you should just move on. You should be like a happy retard running to whatever seems most interesting and fun at that moment. If a woman rejects or ignores you, just bounce to the next one like nothing happened.

Why Men Emotionally Overinvest

Of course, this is all easier said than done because most men, especially in modern society, emotionally overinvest in women. This partly occurs for three reasons:

1) Men evolved to emotionally invest in women quicker because women are looking for a long-term mate.

Men evolved to impregnate as many women as possible in a short as time as possible. Women, however, evolved to seek a mate who will be reliable over the long term to protect and provide for the child over a period of years. Therefore, women have a longer list of criteria that a potential mate needs to meet and require a longer “analysis” period to determine whether the man is worth being sexually attracted to. Men, however, often become emotionally invested in a woman just by seeing she is hot.

As a practical matter, this means that most men blow it with women because they do something needy right at the beginning of the interaction. The moment they see a hot woman they decide to buy her a drink, do her a favor, or pay her more attention she deserves, which causes the woman to immediately eliminate them from consideration. This also causes the man to text too much, overshare, or feel like he has a closer emotional connection with her than he really does.

There is, however, a silver lining here. Once you realize that most men are eliminated from the jump, you can immediately set yourself apart by strictly implementing the alpha male quid pro quo. You just need to control your emotions. As a red-blooded American male, when I see a hot chick walking down the street my first impulse is to follow her home so I can tell her I want to eat ice cream out of her ass. But because I know about the alpha male quid pro quo, I restrain myself.

This article is too long for reddit. Please read the rest at my website: https://www.woujo.com/blog/2020/9/14/how-to-stop-being-creepy-and-needy

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Post Information
Title How to Stop Being Creepy and Needy
Author Woujo
Upvotes 651
Comments 99
Date September 14, 2020 8:37 PM UTC (9 months ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/how-to-stop-being-creepy-and-needy.213735
https://theredarchive.com/post/213735
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/istjqx/how_to_stop_being_creepy_and_needy/
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[–]30znHeem225 points226 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

first couple paragraphs are spot on but damn g u wrote a whole ass best selling book in your post

[–]TheRedPillRipper13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

the alpha male quit pro quo

I wondered why never buying anything for my LTR worked so well.. Wait. I didn’t. I just loved my money more than her.

Great way to Frame it though. Value for value.

Godspeed and good luck!

[–]rwramire5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is literally the longest post on Reddit.

[–]erikmalkavian2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

And So /u/30znHeem You should be THANKING the OP for his Freakin' Book Length contribution to your life instead of dogging him out!

Sheez..

[–]Whisper121 points122 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This article is too long for reddit.

And that describes what you can do to improve your writing. There's good stuff here, but it can get lost on a lot of people by not being tight enough.

A piece of writing is finished not when there is nothing helpful to add, but when there is nothing superfluous to take away.

[–]Woujo[S] 77 points78 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You are absolutely right. I am writing a book and these word vomits are basically the first drafts of chapters. I need to cut a lot of bullshit from these articles and ultimately make them more palatable.

[–]holyrasta27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I read it all and i am a tldr kind of guy.

[–]_DonDraper_7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same. Most long posts feel very tldr to me, but the fact that I read this all without even thinking that and proceeded to click the link and finish reading it means there's a lot of quality information, albeit repetitive in places.

Keep 'em coming.

[–]Whisper35 points36 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's good stuff.

Just don't feel like you have to do all your writing in one pass. I like to explain something to people out loud, then write it down as an outline, then go away for a while and come back to it.

[–]HorvathRed18 points19 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well said and I'm glad it was Whisper doing it. Woujo, I think you have very solid material, you're a top contributor for sure, even if our styles of game are a bit different, but I think you do tend to produce extremely long articles. They're informational and thorough enough, sure, but I'm sure they can be condensed. It feels too much like reading essays, not in a good way.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ChrimsonChin9885 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is a fun misconception. You can never become 'more selfish'. Everybody is always as selfish as they can be, everything we do, we do because it benefits ourselves in the first place. From the most money hungry person ever to philanthropists; equally selfish, the only difference being that acquiring wealth for himself gives the first person a good feeling while the second person feels good when they give it away.

You have not become 'truly selfish' just more honest about it and therefore far less unswerving...

[–]Korrangar2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What people "not selfish enough" lack is the ability to say no

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for this, man. It's really hard to recognize ones own scarcity mindset and how much one lacks abundance. Kind of in the same way that according to the Dunning-Kruger Effect, it's hard to know how much more intelligent another person can be than oneself.

I'm only halfway through (I had to stop to process all of the moments in which a women probably found me creepy, lol.) but I can tell this post is gold.

[–]VisiblePlan12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Woujo posts are always a deep dive. This reminds me a lot of the old Pook post, operating from an I-am-the-prize mentality rather than the more needy and desperate version most guys work under. It puts the onus on the woman to actually try and win you in a way, as you are the one vetting women u meet beyond just looks.

[–]BeeLow051913 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Took several poops to read but kinda worth it

[–]GayLubeOil27 points28 points  (12 children) | Copy Link

Here's a Red Pill, most people don't know about because they don't actually lift. You can't emotionally over invest in women let alone anything else if you actually go hard in the gym. Your nervous system gets desensitized from stress and after that everything else is chill in comparison.

Next it doesn't matter what Elite Alpha Dark Triad strategies you load these dorks up with because they have no stress tolerance anyway, because once again they don't even lift. At the start of any sexual interaction they are going to shart their spiderman underpants and forget the 7000 word Saga that you have composed for the benefit of the Red Pill. I appreciate that you consistently put in work for this community even though I usually disagree with you, but then again I disagree with everyone on everything so whatever.

Finally a point of contention, I don't know where you live or what you do that you experience these strict hierarchies. What your describing feels like some weird over staffed 1960s Mad Men office.

In order for a hierarchy to exist and for men to compete in it society has to be relatively healthy and homogenous, like an affluent suburban highschool football team or something. Most offices today are heterogenous hodgepodges assemblages of contractors HR Karens and H1B visas.

Who is left to compete with in 2020? Rashad who just made his way from India? He doesn't understand the culture or social context enough to understand what's going on anyway.

[–]Woujo[S] 14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Here's a Red Pill, most people don't know about because they don't actually lift. You can't emotionally over invest in women let alone anything else if you actually go hard in the gym. Your nervous system gets desensitized from stress and after that everything else is chill in comparison.

That's actually a very good point and I agree.

Who is left to compete with in 2020?

It doesn't matter who your competition is. If you emotionally overinvest, the woman's subconscious will mark you as lower status than her, even if every other guy is lower status too.

[–]GayLubeOil20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ok glad we agree on the lifting biopsychology thing. I think the issue here is that the 18-23 year olds you and I write for don't have the luxury of competing with anyone thus leading them to be miscalibrated.

Basically these Zoomers are either sitting in a room by themselves in a zoom call, or working a very specialized task from a home office.

So fundamentaly the way these guys/simps are acting is the way old people act in nursing homes. They are hungry for any and all human interaction, doesn't matter what kind. That could be an underlying cause.

[–]Messsi36 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yup, most of Red Pill stuff comes even naturally to you when you're in shape and lift. When your testosterone levels are where they're suppose to be.

[–]Metalgear22212 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

For me it wasn’t the lifting, it was realizing that no matter how hot they were they’re still capable of being boring and not on my level. Or in short, like Patrice said, “You’re better than her” once that was a reality instead of fake it til ya make it, it was smooth sailing.

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[–]Run__3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes that's realistic, but that should never be your goal. You'll never just find a woman like that on a whim and you won't get anywhere actively looking for the one either. Bang some sluts and get some regular customers and you'll eventually be able to keep building more and more plates until you find the few worth keeping around.

The most interesting chick I know was actually bone dry at surface level and appeared so basic, but once her panties dropped so did the act.

[–]Xexitar6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep. My first question when talking to anyone online that isn't seeing success is, what fitness do you do? "Ehh I did weights for a few months" "ehh a bit of cycling every now and then". That's your problem right there. Physical weakness and lack of dedication leads to the equivalent mental dysfunction in both areas - laziness and no commitment to better yourself. If you can't be bothered then I can't be bothered to help you.

[–]Zech4riah1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but hitting gym "actually hard" is waste of time because of diminishing returns. 4x4h sessions a week will get you majority of the physical and mental gains. After that diminishing turns hit you if you are natural.

And it doesn't have to be gym. If I "hit hard" on developing my business, I get way stronger emotional distancing from women (sometimes maybe even too much because I flake FBs etc. because I have good flow going on). I'd say hitting hard on some mental activity gets you better results in this sense.

[–]BokoyaCucumba0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I dont think dimimishing returns really apply here. Let's we are in a business which employ both machines and workers. Lets say now the business employ more thus it achieves more output. However, it will reach a point whereby our marginal costs increases as workers must line up to use machines.

What i am trying to explain is that if we increase the input of one variable while other remain unchanged(Ceteris Paribus) we will have lower returns.

Does this apply to the gym? I dont think so, an increase in time spent at the gym will likely also mean that you will spend more time cooking and preparing healthy food as your intake increases. If you consums protein shakes, that might also increase as you have more muscle mass that must be kept. In the end, all your inputs are increasing, therefore diminuishing marginal return is not likely to happen

[–]Zech4riah3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

In theory you can keep growing the business (or increase the output) infinitely by getting more employees and machines but you can't grow muscle infinitely at same phase regardless how much you train and eat.

When it comes to the gym, human physiology is the cap. Primary components are:

  • Recovery time
  • The limits of muscle growth in human body.

Increasing amount of gym sessions from 1 times/week to 2 times/week makes a huge difference in 2 years.

Increasing amount of gym sessions from 4 times/week to 5 times/week makes only a minor improvement compared to previous situation over 2 years.

That's what I mean by diminishing returns.

[–]BokoyaCucumba1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes you are right. I did not imagined it in this way...

[–]snipe4fun1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What your describing feels like some weird over staffed 1960s Mad Men office.

He mentions that he's a lawyer, so yeah.

[–]RedGille7 points8 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

u lost me at: immediately do a 360.

don't u people in America learn geometry anymore?

[–]Woujo[S] 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Good catch, I will change it to 45 degrees.

[–]Startingdtrenght0072 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I really love you man,but saying goes "180 degrees" at least here in europe we say like that.

[–]Woujo[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dude, it was a joke.

How about I change it to pi/2 radians?

[–]RivenHalf7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most men fail the alpha male quid pro quo by doing too much for the woman. But some men fail because they do not do enough. If a woman DOES meaningfully contribute to your emotional experience, you should reward her proportionately to what she has done. Women seek acceptance, and if they feel like they cannot get it from you they will move on and get it from somebody else.

I fucked up here in my earlier red pill days. I went from a needy little bitch to completely cold. I swung the pendulum way too far in the other direction because I was so tired of being used my whole life. Funny enough that led to women investing in me. Women would take me out, pay for my meals, pay for entertainment, contact me first, express romantic interest, etc.

Due to being afraid of going backwards and turning back into a needy bitch I wouldn't reciprocate at all. I would remain cold and uncaring through out the course. Eventually they would leave, sometimes I would care. Other times I wouldn't. They would even imply if not flat out say that they needed some investment from me and I still would not give it to them.

It's a difficult balancing act to follow but as is the basis of the article, allow yourself to give a little after you receive. It can be hard to play both sides if you're coming from a hardcore provider frame as so many of us are but I imagine it gets better with practice. I'm still working on it.

[–]TeamLitten5 points6 points  (11 children) | Copy Link

Firstly, amazing article but really long. It took me a while to read. Secondly, holy shit this made me realize that I am emotionally over investing in a girl. Here's my situation. I asked a girl out on Wednesday, she said "yeah I'll text you to reschedule". Five days later and nothing. Since this was my first approach and my first rejection it kinda destroyed me inside (I decided it would be a good idea to ask the hottest girl in the grade out. So many people complimented me for having balls of steel). Thank god we are in a hybrid schedule for Covid because if she saw or knew how I was acting, she would be running for the hills. So, I know I've been over investing in terms of my thought process however, now I'm at a crossroads. Do I follow up with her and be like "Hey when are you free this week" and just take the answer how it is, or do I just let it go and go on to the next?

[–]Woujo[S] 9 points10 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

My general approach is to text a girl twice to set up plans. If she bullshits twice then move on.

[–]TeamLitten8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I did it. I said “Hey you free anytime soon?”. She gave me this whole paragraph about how she was thinking about it and she just wants to be friends, she’s busy, and that she appreciates me. So basically all bullshit. Now onto the next (I already knew she wasn’t interested so now I get a straight answer and lose nothing). I’ll take this on the head and move onto the next

[–]Woujo[S] 14 points15 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Ok but next time don't say "you free anytime soon" - open-ended texts like that make you look needy and you will accommodate her every whim. Instead, say "let's grab a drink at X place at Y time." Give her a definite time and place.

[–]TeamLitten7 points8 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’m a bit too young to grab a drink lmao. I get what you’re saying though. However, I didn’t sense she was interested anyway so anything I said would have probably ended the same way. And thus ends my first high school approach and rejection. Hurt for 4 days but I’m good now and motivated to go on to the next

[–]PhoenixRisingtw3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man you did it. Now guys think you're the boss even despite the rejection. Try approaching more and you will become more confident etc.

[–]treehauz2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Good job bro. But before she rejected you, you rejected yourself with how you thought about it. Go to gym and lift, raise your smv (and confidence) so that you dont do this to yourself next time. But anyway good job on cold approach. You re the man! Get more rejections and be ok with them. Laugh at them and move on.

[–]TeamLitten2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You’re right it’s just this was the first time I ever approached, I was way too emotionally over invested in this girl (as Woujo laid out), and I had a case of oneitis in terms of how I thought about her. This hit me way harder than it should because of how much weight I put on it. Luckily, it’ll only get easier from here. I realized while doing this that I want to truly love myself despite my flaws and be truly confident in myself. That includes going hard at the gym and doing more cold approaches. By the time college comes I should be set

[–]jrr6415sun2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If she’s the hottest girl in the grade sounds like she just said yes to make you not feel bad, but wasn’t interested

[–]TeamLitten5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

nah nah, I can tell the whole time she was taking pity on me and just trying to be polite. I knew that from a mile away. That's what kind of destroyed me inside. I thought to myself "Am I really so horrible/disgusting/not good enough/ etc. that she can't even acknowledge my existence and has to take pity on me?" I felt as if it was my fault and that I can never get with a good looking girl because I'm just not fucking good enough. Those first four days were really not good, and I still have times where I get down on myself for not being good enough. This whole situation made me feel unlovable. However, as with life itself, everything fucking sucks so I gotta get back up again anyway. That's the only way to change anything in life, to struggle

[–]nofaprecommender2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is great. This is useful and applicable sexual strategy. Thanks for the post.

[–]NormalAndy2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

These days I see shit testing as the biggest favour women can do for men and the species as a whole.

Not focusing on sex as anything important, striving for abundance mentality and outcome independence- that’s how you stop being creepy and needy.

[–]Project_Zero_Betas2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

For example, a woman that helps you get a job at a company you want to work for is contributing way more than a woman who buys you a beer.

Women do this? I was under the impression they sit on the sidelines wanting you to pull yourself up by your bootstraps for the sake of their looks. Huh. TIL

[–]thrwy754792 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They'll do it if it benefits them as well.

I was looking for work, and I had girls that would stalk me on job search sites, forwarding job openings to me.

In all cases, it was women who were interested and near the wall, and they were looking for a provider for themselves. It was also a way for them to keep tabs on me.

[–]Appex12 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I must be honest with myself and acknowledge that I'm the needy and insecure person, and it's so true that whenever I feel someone is emotionally investing in me to the point where they're denying their true selves in favor of me, I get soo uncomfortable. If I'm at the gym and I see a woman is desperately staring at me, I can get so turned off. And I've been struggling with this for years, and I really wanna know what I can do to accept people investing in me emotionally.

[–]rocacu2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice message you are trying to communicate. Resume more next time.

I know it was an analogy but... If a Homeless guy was starving and has not eaten for 2 weeks, you pass by him and you have only one sandwich, you better give him that fucking sandwich.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor5 points6 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Too much text.

The way to judge creepiness: if she’s not attracted to you, it’s creepy. If she is, it’s charming/romantic.

Love letters? Creepy/clingy if unattractive. Charming is attractive.

Flowers? Creepy/clingy if unattractive, romantic if attractive.

Staring from across the room? Creepy if unattractive, sexy if attractive.

Talking about how she’s different than other girls?

Surprise kiss?

You get the idea.

[–]Woujo[S] 14 points15 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

Yeah that's completely wrong. You are letting the woman decide what is creepy and what is not, which means that you are living in her frame and letting her dictate your behavior. That's pussy, beta bitch behavior.

The purpose of this article is to give men a way of determining how they should behave based on their own objective criteria. If they followed the advice of people like you, they would spend all day worrying about the woman they liked found them attractive or not. As I explain in this article, that is a stupid way to live your life because a lot of women are fucking retarded and you can't read their minds anyways.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor2 points3 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

because a lot of women are fucking retarded and you can’t read their mind anyways

This is the kinda stuff that gets TRP banned.

With that being said, you wrote like a 20 page book up there. You think these words aren’t going to give men anxiety just from trying to over analyze every situation?

The point of what I said is just do whatever you think is best, and make sure you’re as physically and socially attractive as possible. If she doesn’t like you, you’re a creep. If she does, you’re a heartthrob. You don’t know til you try. If she ends up filing you under creep? On to the next one.

TRP has never been about oneitis. Go after a lot of attractive women and a couple will stick around. Then choose the best one of the remaining and DGAF about the ones who called you creepy.

Worrying about what women think is a problem. You can’t decipher it, and she won’t tell you. Go off her actions.

[–]Woujo[S] 8 points9 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You think these words aren’t going to give men anxiety just from trying to over analyze every situation?

No because it boils down to a very simple idea: don't emotionally overinvest and don't do more for her than she has done for you. The rest is commentary and examples. And yes, it is too long. The main idea can be stated in a few sentences.

If she doesn’t like you, you’re a creep. If she does, you’re a heartthrob.

There is behavior that is objectively creepy and behavior that is objectively not creepy. Creepiness is not whatever women say it is.

Tons of ugly dudes bat out of their league because they can control their creepiness. And tons of attractive guys get blown out because they act creepy. Obviously, all things being equal attractive guys do better and sometimes girls falsely accuse guys of being creepy just because they are ugly, but to act like it is all subjective is stupid.

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

There is behavior that is objectively creepy and behavior that is objectively not creepy.

If you want to believe this, then sure. Women will throw around the word creepy in replacement of "I'm not interested".

Trial and error + maximizing your SMV is the way to get hot women.

[–]Woujo[S] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Women will throw around the word creepy in replacement of "I'm not interested".

WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT THEY SAY???

The whole point of being a fucking man is defining your own reality and standards of behavior. You may not realize it, but you are firmly living in womens' frames because you are defining acceptable and unacceptable behavior as what women like and don't like. As long as you are stuck in this mindset you will basically get let around on a leash by women.

Maybe you should try reading the article.

[–]kenann70 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I was enlightened by this article, thanks for that.

I loved the part where you wrote

You can “draw out” what is interesting about a woman with targeted questions

RIGHT here, this is where I suck, I want to draw interesting parts when making conversations, is there some way to learn it? I mean, for example, when I approach a girl, I say hi, what's your name and all, then I want to be able to create a map in my head like a detective to ask about specific parts in her life, for example, she has a tattoo, she did something which she can be "x" maybe ask her about that.

Maybe what I want is weird, but I don't know how to draw interesting topics about someone I just met.

[–]kenann72 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I also browse reddit/socialskills but looking at the posts there made me realize that I am not fucking socially awkward or anything. I just can't find those key conversation topics

[–]WhatIsThisAccountFor-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT THEY SAY

That’s the entire point of my comments. I’m saying being called creepy is almost unavoidable in today’s dating climate, so when it happens it’s usually not an impactful claim.

Trial and error + SMV maximizing. When you stop caring what they think, you start to think in terms of “what works vs what doesn’t work” instead of “does she like me?”.

My previous comment literally said this:

worrying about what women think is a problem. You can’t decipher it and she won’t tell you. Go off their actions.

I will admit i should have used the word mistake instead of problem, but did you just not read that or something? Because it seems like you agree with me from everything else you’ve said.

[–]inbredostrptw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely correct. Never let a woman decide anything that’s important to you (in this case your relationship) because she doesn’t know how to, and she doesn’t want to. You noted below that you define your own reality. I like to think of it as creating a reality, but defining is a part of that. Women fundamentally don’t have that ability, don’t refer to them to figure out reality, grab your balls and make it

[–][deleted]  (14 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Woujo[S] 14 points15 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Unlike men, women primarily base attractiveness on the man's actions rather than his appearance. So yes, a man's attractiveness is largely based on whether he is being creepy or not.

[–]Inside-Party7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

women primarily base attractiveness on the man's actions rather than his appearance.

Unless Tinder

[–]Korrangar0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Unless Tinder

Yes and no, what's also attractive on tinder is photos of you doing cool activities

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]send_it_for_the_boys2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Being physically attractive gives you a bit more pull and time to show your personality where as the ugly creepy guy doesn’t get his foot in the door.

[–]BloodSurgery1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean, you can be attractive and creepy.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]jrr6415sun3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

An attractive man can get away with being more creepy, but there is a limit. If an attractive guy is constantly needy no girl is going to put up with that.

[–]monadyne-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

When I was a young guy in my 20's, I was crashing at a hippie house with a bunch of other people. There was an amazing woman there named Ramona. She had red hair and freckles, and bright blue eyes that seemed to sparkle. She was absolutely beautiful, funny, smart, never created or engaged in any drama. And she was cool as hell. Her father was a scientist and she had grown up on a remote island in the South Pacific. She was capable of anything- -fixing a pickup truck, cooking a meal for fifteen people, making her own clothes, etc. Plus, she could piss standing up, like a dude. I never got anything romantic going with her, but I had a crush on her. Who wouldn't? She was gorgeous.

One day when I was away from that crash pad house, I was drinking a Coke downtown and I watched some super fat chick crossing the street. Absolute land whale, like 300 lbs. When she got close I realized... it was Ramona! What the hell?? Yep. She was such a radiant creature, so full of life and joy, so lacking in any negative vibes that I had simply never noticed her being overweight. It was an amazing lesson in perception and I never forgot it.

[–]Tyred_Biggums3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Be attractive. Don’t be unattractive. Problem solved.

[–]lovatoariana3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Funny how womens "creepiness radar" works different when theyre into you. I could literally shit on the floor and she would find an excuse for it

[–]nmarcher1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Do you have any tips on not being creepy while trying to set up a date with girl that I met on instagram? So the story is I don't remember when I followed her or maybe she sent the request first but I saw her story on ig it was some funny shit so I replied with a joke. We talked a little bit. After 1 week she posted new story about place that I know so we talked about this and about us also this was a little bit long conversation. Recently I thought why I'm not setting a date? But idk how to start we barely know each other..

Edit: thanks for responses. I will try to set up a date.

[–]I-DRUNK-UR-MILKSHAKE6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You pick a day in the week you are free and ask if she is down. if she says no or doesn't respond, you move on with your life, having lost nothing.

[–]monadyne1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She might actually have something scheduled at that time, in which case you'll be dropping her needlessly. But you do need to find out if she's willing to meet with you. Also, if you make it for a definite time, it'll come off as you trying to set up a locked-in date which could look needy.

Maybe try this: "Hey, we should hang out! I'm free any afternoon from Wednesday to Friday. You want to get coffee or something?"

It's chill, loose, and you don't sound needy. And because the times are vague, it forces her hand. If she's not into meeting with you, it's on her to convey that to you. You'll be able to tell from her answer if she's genuine or not.

Now, it's still possible she can't make any of those times. "I can't. I've got finals all week."

"Finals! That can be brutal. Hey, good luck with that!"

Then you wait to see if she contacts you after the "finals" period is over. If she does, cool. If not ...also cool. Because YDGAF.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Ask her to go grab a quick coffee/drink on a specific day (say, tomorrow at 5 pm).

Edit: You've known her for long enough and you might as well just ask her out. She seems interested in you, since you shared a nice conversation.

[–]yaboyebeatz5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

A few ways to make this happen.

  1. Ask her what her availability is for a coffee. Remember, you should be on your purpose anyway and not waiting around. When you ask her, she gets to thinking your busy, on your shit and she has to make time for you.

  2. If you’re already out, send her a text saying “hey, I’m at blah blah blah, you should stop by” You’re already out, you give her an option without looking desperate, you’re being direct without looking needy.

Remember, you want her to attract to your high value. Keep the messages to the point, throw a little bait here and there to keep her wanting more attention and don’t fall into the friend zone before you even meet her.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep, the advice is spot on, especially point 2. If you let her pick the date and time of your meeting, though, you'll fall into her frame and show her that you are able to adjust to her and aren't busy enough. She'll have to check her plans, pick a time when you could meet, whereas, if you ask her to show up at, say, 5 pm on Monday, all she'll have to do is comply and let you take the lead.

[–]Nittr[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

damn good stuff. a bit too long but it deserves to be a pinned post or something like that.

[–]GentleShmebulock0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I accidentally overinvest, what works for me (and comes super naturally) is to "neg", insult, be a jerk, bully the woman a little before withdrawing attention. Bitch will come back

[–]warthundersfw0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Pretty awesome that you called out the “well you would never talk to anybody”

[–]digitalEarthling0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great read. Nice word usage.

[–]TheAccidentOf850 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This was a great read, long but great. Recently ended a short term fling, it started of great and sexual... but I outpaced her on being emotionally invested, ultimately leading to her pulling away and getting the LJBF... I need to slow down and shut up.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]Woujo[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually address this question later in the article. Please read the whole thing.

[–]StripRip0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You should be like a happy retard running to whatever seems most interesting and fun at that moment.

I think this is equally hilarious and probably the best advice I could've gotten from this, great article.

[–]Domebeers0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

this is good but it's too long so it loses effectiveness

[–]Xexitar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Too long, didn't read it all. You repeat yourself a lot. You hit a lot of key points like your attention being worth more to a woman, and using your attention (or denying attention) as a means of attraction.

However, I disagree completely with a balanced equation. A high value man does not NEED to give equal reciprocation to balance some imaginary scale, just because a woman did him a favour first. I never buy drinks, I rarely pay for my own dinner when I go on a date. I don't feel any obligation to, and it hasn't impacted my success in the short or long term at all.

Giving money or things or time or investment to a woman just because she gave these things to you first is beta nonsense and you lose both your resources and your alpha credibility by thinking/acting this way. Lose-lose.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Been getting ghosted by three plates who, within the past week, have been obsessing over me and giving me crazy sex.

Couldn't have come at a better time. Thanks brother.

[–]erikmalkavian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent Post OP and I copied it and put in my reading material to meditate on.

THANK YOU!

[–]Johnny-Come-Early0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Female: "don't be a creep" Male: "don't be a pussy"

[–]Simptopimp-co-uk1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This was one of the best posts I have read and I was originally one of those guys who "doesn't need to hear this advice". Everyone can benefit from this, especially in the age of the Simp.

This should be pinned to the main sidebar and directly linked to probably 80% of asktrp posts.

[–]theconcentrated0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the helpful content was over by 5 paragraphs. rest was just circling stuff. Prolificacy is only appreciable when its informative.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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