~ archived since 2018 ~

Life is transactional

October 13, 2016
169 upvotes

Men seeking to have sex with women, that fail at this task, are often shamed. Reviled. How dare he, an unattractive man, attempt to assert his wants, uninvited, on an innocent woman who did not want or welcome his attempt? Doesn’t he know how uncomfortable he made her?

Even worse, this man didn’t just walk up and grab her by the pussy, Trump-style, but actually tried to introduce himself, talk to her, learn a little bit about her, and maybe even buy her a few drinks. And only then, after evilly getting her guard down by acting friendly and making her think she was about to make a new, unattractive man-friend, does he start to touch her and act interested in sex or romance. What an ass!

And then, after being very sternly rebuked, which he deserves for being such a misleading shit, he just leaves and doesn’t even try to salvage the friendship or make his insolence up to her! He never wanted to be friends or chat amicably with her in the first place. He wasn’t really interested in how her night was going, or that story she told about her friend Jenna, or what she does for a living. That whole friendly conversation was him angling for sex! The horror!

She was enjoying a friendly conversation with a stranger, but there was a hidden cost. He wanted something.

Life is transactional. Nothing is free. Everybody wants something.

Think about all of the times you’ve asked people how they’re doing or how their day is going. How many times did you actually care about how this person’s day was going when you asked that very vague, non-specific question? Especially if you weren’t speaking to a close friend but were meeting a new person. How many new people have you met in your life that you weren’t sure you were ever going to see again? In fact, you’ve probably met a lot of people you knew for a fact you weren’t going to see again, barring anything unexpected. Do you really care how a stranger is feeling today or what he or she does for a living or whether he or she has any siblings? Of course not. Not unless you want or need something from that stranger.

When people make small talk, the huge majority of the time, they don’t really care about the other person. They want something. Yes, given the choice, people generally prefer a world were complete strangers are happier versus one where they’re sad, but nobody is really and truly invested in how some stranger’s night is going or what she does for a living.

When people interact, they want something. Sometimes, they want something very basic. Maybe they’re busybodies that enjoy running their mouth and just want someone to listen to them for a bit. Maybe they’re curious, nosy types that love meeting people and asking them shit, just for fun. Maybe they’re in a group social setting and have to demonstrate proper social norms by engaging in proper conversational topics with those present, even though they don’t really care and aren’t really interested in what the other person wants to say. Or maybe, in a very, very dark and evil world, the person they’re talking to is physically attractive, and they’re making small talk to warm that person up for a bid for sex or romance. (The horror!)

Gentlemen, when you talk to a girl – especially a girl you don’t know well, though this also applies to girls you know – there is always an undercurrent of suspicion. She is uneasy. She is wondering why the hell you’re talking to her and what you want. She is bracing herself, with catlike readiness, suspicious that you’re going to touch her or ask her out or ask for her number or say something sexual. She is ready and waiting with that rejection. Because you have a penis and you’re talking to her, and she knows that you don’t really give a shit about her dog and she doesn’t really give a shit about your aquarium and all of this is just some long prelude until you make your move.

Don’t disrespect a girl by keeping her waiting like that. Don’t give her rejection blue balls. Don’t babble on and on about stupid shit if your intention is to fuck her. I’m not saying grab her by the pussy, but make your move. Early and often. Chat just enough to see if she’s interested, make your move, and if she rejects you, bail and move on. Talking for an hour about stupid shit doesn’t raise your chances or warm her up to the idea of fucking you. In fact, every minute that passes lowers your chances.

You need to get that girl attracted and interested in you early. Then, and only then, do you spend time making her comfortable with you by letting her run her mouth long enough to feel like she knows you. If you don’t have that interest in the first five minutes, ten tops, move on.

More important than any of this, however, is the corollary. When somebody is interacting with you, he or she wants something. Nobody gives a shit how your night is going, what you do for a living, or what your parents were like. If you’re talking about yourself and somebody is listening and asking questions, that person wants something. Because that person’s life is completely unaffected by the story you’re telling about the time you went bike riding. That shit doesn’t matter to the person you’re talking to at all. That person is not invested in your bike riding hobby.

If somebody is talking to you, that somebody wants something, even if it’s just something small like using you to alleviate boredom. If that somebody is a girl, and she’s asking shit about your life, she’s either interested in you, or she’s interested in using you. A woman doesn’t ask about your dog because she cares about your dog. She’s asking about your dog because she either wants to fuck, wants to date, wants to get you to buy her a few drinks, or maybe wants to get you to buy her a few meals under the guise of dating. Or she's just bored or doesn't want to be seen standing alone not talking to anybody in a social setting.

When you’re in a social setting, pay attention. Peel back the small-talk layer and try to notice what people actually want. If somebody wants to get to know you, that somebody wants something. If you can guess what somebody wants, you can appeal to them a lot more easily than just blindly playing the small-talk game. And if you can recognize interest and move along quickly when it’s absent, you’ll get a much bigger return on your time.

And quit pissing women off by not hitting on them. They’re waiting to reject you. They know what’s up when you walk over. Don’t insult them by blabbing on and on about stupid shit and denying them the opportunity. Be aggressive. Flirt. Touch them. Don't make friends. Make them feel smart for having that suspicion by validating it. Women love feeling smart.

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Post Information
Title Life is transactional
Author Archwinger
Upvotes 169
Comments 41
Date October 13, 2016 11:04 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/life-is-transactional.63642
https://theredarchive.com/post/63642
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/57d9pe/life_is_transactional/
Red Pill terms in post
Comments

[–]RED_PILL_TRUTH95 points96 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Great post as always. This is a big time Red Pill lesson to learn, especially if you are a former white knight idealist attempting to work his way through digesting the pill.

Nobody gives a fuck. You don't matter. My college buddy, a textbook definition of a "natural" or whatever (He's not a "natural", nobody is, he learned AWALT at 15 when he walked in on his unicorn taking 2 of his buddies cocks to her mouth in the locker room.) But he was wise in the ways of the world. He used to tell me to go to Google Maps, and zoom out slowly when I was worked up. From the house we were in, to the city, county, state, and so on.

I thought it was stupid, but the point of the exercise was learning that you don't fucking matter. You are a speck of a speck of a speck. That bitch who just turned you down? She is irrelevant to history. She could die tomorrow, and only a handful of people would truly care. You could die tomorrow, and only a few people would actually care- sure people would be sad for you, sure people would express emotion as they question their own mortality, but they would eventually go about their lives. Even if you live a long, prosperous life, filled with wealth and the spreading of your seed, you will be forgotten within 50-100 years- unless you write something worthwhile, or are an extreme outlier.

I'm on a tangent here, but when I was 19 it was world shattering to me that Suzie wasn't just sucking my cock. Suzie was sucking another guy's cock! And she didn't care that I found out!

What happened? What an event! What a tragedy! Why couldn't I save her? My innocent blue pilled mind didn't understand the transactional nature of the world.

None of it mattered. Her sucking my cock was for a transactional purpose. The transaction was complete, and she wished to engage in a new transaction, with a new desired goal: fulfillment of desire, social capital, new semen. This new transaction didn't involve my cock, or me at all.

The big pill for me to swallow was that this law or rule, whatever you want to call it, holds true for everything. Your mother's love? The purest thing in nature? It's a creation of chemicals in her brain, a sense of fulfillment and a desire for purpose in life. Your father's support? As a childless man, I assume it has to do with a mixture of desire for progeny, a sense of purpose, and pride in one's DNA. And the father/mother relationship is a very pure transaction. It only goes downhill from there. I'm telling you, go work a sales job one summer. Cars or door knocking or fuck- sell DirecTV in a Walmart. You will learn, and you will learn quickly, about the transactional nature of humanity. Your bosses just want you to sell, they don't give a fuck about you. Your customers or clients want something from you, they don't care about you. Your co-workers are in competition with you. Nobody gives a fuck.

I gave a fuck for around 24 years. As I draw closer to my 30's, it has become easier to not care. There is power from not caring- in business, sex/love, society. We are here to improve our sexual power via an understanding of human nature. The quicker you accept that nobody gives a fuck and you shouldn't too, the easier your life will be.

[–]Battle-Scars8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Man, that's a fucking awesome comment. Good for you.

[–]graffix131 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

User name checks out.

Great post. I love this:

He used to tell me to go to Google Maps, and zoom out slowly when I was worked up. From the house we were in, to the city, county, state, and so on.

I thought it was stupid, but the point of the exercise was learning that you don't fucking matter. You are a speck of a speck of a speck. That bitch who just turned you down? She is irrelevant to history.

[–]RED_PILL_TRUTH1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Next time you're worked up over something, try it. It's makes you see how fleeting this whole experience is.

[–]shonthered1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Man you should definitely make this into a post.

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns23 points24 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Fuck her first, friend her later.

My entire life, I always tried to friend 'em first, and then fuck 'em later. Thing is, if you're successful at the first one, you'll never get to the second. Looking back, all the women I had, the sex always came first, and then the relationship (if there was one) after.

I've talked about this before, but most women are comfortable having sex after knowing you for about 7 hours. In many cases, you can even get this down to 3 or 4... Anything less usually requires quite a bit of intoxication, but hey, if you're wasted enough, you can bang 'em after 20 mins. Or even 10 seconds. Just depends on the intoxication level of both parties.

Assuming you're relatively sober however (I don't drink these days so this is my camp), 7 to 10 hours is the PRIME WINDOW of sexual opportunity (it's not an accident that 3 separate dates will take about 7 to 10 hours total running time, hence the "three date rule"). This is followed by the "DANGER ZONE" of 10 to 15 hours. If you've known her for between 10 to 15 hours, you can still make your move and get her into bed, but it's tricky: she's thinking "I was ready hours ago, why hasn't this guy made his move yet?? Hmm--maybe he's a BETA and I better make my exit..." And if you wait more than 15 hours to make your move, forget it, you're done--she's now polarized you into the friend zone (an alpha wouldn't have waited that long, so clearly you're not an alpha but a beta, hence no sex for you).

We talk about this here all the time but it bears repeating: GET TO REJECTION QUICKLY. That's not to say that you should walk up to every cute girl you see and say "Nice shoes! Wanna fuck??"--and if she scowls just roll your eyes and say "NEXT!!" and move onto the next one. You need to apply a little bit of artistry here, a little flirtation, a little give and take, a little push pull. Seduction is a game, a tennis match: serve, volley, etc etc. It's supposed to be fun (shocking, I know). And as such you need to allow the interaction a little room to breathe (and to escalate).

But that having been said, far too many men (and I'm guilty of this myself, a LOT) take WAY too much time to start the escalation, and then WAAAAAYYYYY too much time on top of that to clearly push further into the "I'm interested in being more than just friends..." category. Thing is, when you realize that you're probably good to go (re: upping the escalation) after 3 to 4 hours of interaction, and definitely good to go (re: full on sex) after 7 hours, THEN THERE'S NO REASON TO WAIT ANY LONGER THAN THAT--just get to it and make your move in a cool, confident manner. If she rejects you GREAT! You've just saved yourself a ton of time, money, and energy pursuing someone who wasn't into you in the first place. And if she doesn't, well then--that's what we're all here for right?

[–]EdmondDaunts7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Funny you mentioned the "Nice shoes wanna fuck?"

A decade or so ago a friend of mine did just that for a few weeks every time he went out. He was a decent looking bloke but not ripped or built. He said that it took about 12 asks and the he'd get a yes.

And not just yes from ugly fat birds, actual nice looking ones. Apparently it worked best when the other girls saw him asking other girls.

A demonstration of balls that was also covered nicely in How I Met Your Mother.

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I actually tried that line a few times back in college (long time ago, back in the late 90s). Of course it was usually at one of my own house parties, so all the girls were women I vaguely knew through friends of friends etc but yeah, I think it worked pretty much every time. Of course we were all wasted (and like I said, neither party was completely unknown to the other, these were all girls on the periphery of my social circle, don't know if I'd try that one with a total stranger dead sober), but if you can get the line out with a straight face, fire away. You might be surprised at what turns up...

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

While I agree that men should be aggressive and shamelessly hit on bitches it would be remiss not to note that sometimes one can successfully make her believe you aren't interested and force her to qualify herself to you.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well said.

Bitch only want what she can't have.

The shit she CAN have, she already got.

[–]Snufek8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The truth is, you already know if the girl is interested after 2 minutes tops. Often you just don't want to hurt your ego, so you keep on talking and talking... Be a gentleman and respect her time. Either escalate or GTFO.

[–]IGoYouStayTwoAutumns6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Remember: MEN ARE MICROWAVES, WOMEN ARE OVENS. The latter requires a little more time to heat up.

Some women will let you know right away they're DTF--it's in the way they smile, or check you out, or maybe how they (very noticeably) get the kino in right away (I've always found, on dates, sitting next to a girl at the bar, if she touches my arm or leg at any point during the date I'm definitely sleeping with her that night).

But MOST women you'll end up sleeping with over the course of your life, you won't really know for sure if they're into you right away, it'll take a little while longer. Maybe 30 min, maybe 2 or 3 hours... Of course you'll ALWAYS know for sure after several hours, tops (7 hours is a good "checkpoint", as I mentioned in another comment).

But if you're "NEXTing" women after just 2 minutes because "Well she clearly wasn't into me, and I didn't want to waste my time..."--you're almost certainly dropping some potentially perfectly good plates. Don't waste your time, yes, I agree, but don't next out on a girl just because she isn't sucking your dick in the bathroom 5 minutes after you meet her at the bar. Give it a little time, see what develops.

[–]Tweakfix1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Best advice on here. Learn to move on quickly, don't hold on to a shitty investment.

[–]vagbutters4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Be a gentleman and respect her time.

Blue pill line of thinking. Respect your own time. If you don't get what you want readily, gtfo and approach other women. Remember, abundance mentality is key-- you're the prize, not the woman.

[–]Blacklabellogics1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Men are born worthless, and through the sweat of their brow they can build worth over time. Women are born with high value and consume it throughout their life until they end up worthless.

Everything in life is a transaction, a case of resources that are expended in an expectation of an outcome. Males expend resources to build value, in order to expend that value in order to get females. Women expend value in order to obtain resources from men.

[–]Endorsed Contributorex_addict_bro3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m not saying grab her by the pussy,

Of course you don't. You're an intelligent dude, you might run for the POTUS someday and we know how those suggestions end.

Edit: I realized I've just came back from a girl that I once grabbed by the pussy about half an hour after I saw her. We're having a pretty good relation, we know each other more than a year. I'm not expecting her to be anything she is not, perhaps that's a crucial part of that relationship success....

[–]1ToSeeAndToHear0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's a difference between "walk up and grab them by the pussy" and "walk up, chat, seduce, isolate, escalate, grab by the pussy."

The first way only works if you're so physically attractive that women need zero time seeing your dominance to be attracted, every time. Because if they don't want it and you should have known that, it's sexual assault.

[–]PragmaticRedTruth 2 points2 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Bro, can you please write something I dislike once and a while? Da fuck lol.

Great post per usual.

I do have a question, though. I would say this method works great when first meeting a girl to make her shit or get off the pot. However, don't you think in many situations, playing by a method similar to what you'll find in "The 48 Laws of Power," could also be helpful to really lock her in? I've always noticed that acting less thirsty and pushy makes girls want you more. I don't mean to drag it on too long, I just mean more than 5/10 minutes.

See law 3, "conceal your intentions," pages 17 and 18.

Really curious to hear your thoughts on when to use one or the other. Mine are cold approach / and bar type game for the method you've written, and the 48 laws type method for girls that I am in a more formal setting with which requires such. I have also used the 48 laws version with chicks I knew pre-pill and it worked wonders. Think I just about fucked em all now.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A girl doesn't need to be sucking your dick in 5-10 minutes for you to keep going. She just has to show interest. If it's been a full 10 minutes, and you haven't flirted, touched, or done anything even remotely romantic or sexual -- not even something subtle -- and she hasn't done anything at all to indicate interest in that direction, and the two of you are just making bland chit-chat, then you're wasting your time keeping things going.

[–]BlackJ11 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I insta up voted this post as soon as I saw it was from you and I don't regret it at all.

It's really good you actually point this out because a lot of women and men to like to hamster away this truth.

If a man randomly comes up to a woman you know damn well it's not because he's "interested" in her life, career, education, and etc.

The real truth is that the only reason men interact with women is when they want sex from them. Beyond on that, there really is no reason men would want to interact with women.

Go ahead, name one legit reason to interact with women other then sex or from necessity. I'll wait.

[–]nefariousdestiny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reminds me of book I've read on transactional analysis called Games People Play. It covers everything from basic interactions with strangers to party dynamics. It's not specifically about sexual strategy, but many of its concepts can be applied to it.

[–]TehJimmyy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yesterday i came to realise that the only reason my friends came to contact with me after a long time is to use me for their reasons and not actually hang out with.

I was pretty mad at myself because i had read your post 2 months ago and i couldnt sense it from the beggining. First thing that came to mind is to come back here and reread this.

Such underrated post. Thank you and happy new year.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a good post, rapid escalation is key to getting laid. The comments also echo this sentiment. However I think the discussion is missing a key point which can lead to loosing pussy. That point is COMFORT AND RAPPORT. When trying to seduce a woman it is terrible form to just approach, make it verbally clear you want to fuck them, then escalate. I made this mistake MANY times and it has cost me dearly in pussy.

It is crucial to establish some comfort. Some banter to let them know you are a fun guy. Some demonstration of value, some cocky attitude. You cannot just launch straight into seduction. That is skipping a stage. It goes: APPROACH, COMFORT/RAPPORT, SEDUCTION. Now you cannot be a pussy during comfort/ rapport. You should be playful, never just dumb shit like asking about their job or beta crawling, but you gotta make her feel like she is more than just a warm hole.

If you do comfort right, it should not take very long to get to seduction. I am talking minutes, not necessarily hours. Then you launch into teasing, innuendo, kino and escalation. Laser eye contact is key during comfort, body language is also important. Most players do this shit naturally but I feel that the tone of this post and the thread is just "get in there, try to fuck her, or fuck off". This will cost a lot of guys a chance at getting laid.

So for my two cents worth, unless she has already given you MAJOR IOIs (such as touching on you early, having that "lost" look in her eyes, acting nervous amd biting her lip) then you do comfort first, seduction/ escalation second.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You're missing the key step where most guys go wrong.

Approach, build attraction, build comfort, close.

If you go right into the rapport building chit chat, you fucked up. Those first 5-10 minutes are all about seeing if you get that initial attraction and intetest. You have to flirt and make your intentions subtly obvious. If no interest, bail. If any interest, then you continue building more attraction, followed by getting her somewhere alone-ish to build comfort.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the only thing we have different here is terminology. I would say building attraction is trying to negotiate attraction (which we all know is impossible). The 5-15 minute mark on a date for me is about comfort, if she is showing decent body language and maintaining eye contact then I just assume there is attraction. 5-15 mins. of comfort then direct and blantant touching/ flirting (often earlier) is my standard routine. If I hit any barriers or resistance during either comfort or seduction then I am gone. If you are not 80% sure a girl will fuck you within that time, best to just bail.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah that old "direct vs indirect approach" chestnut.

People on both sides. Successes on both sides. And yet still people arguing only for one side.

Direct pros:

  • manly

  • demonstrate clear self-confidence

  • don't waste your time

  • don't waste HER time

Indirect pros:

  • women are attracted to non-physical cues, so you need time to demonstrate you have these cues. How's she going to know you're pre-selected, a leader of men, and a successful risk-taker if you don't talk to her?

  • women have a bitch shield early on, which fades as she gets comfortable with you

  • demonstrate social mastery. powertalk

  • better success ratio

In a general manner, favor direct approaches if you're good looking and for night game. Favor indirect if you don't lift yet and for day game.

[–]SYL3NZR0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have to agree with this, I was in long relationships and ended up talking to quite a few women and you can "easily" tell why they keep talking to you initially, it's also a great "simulation" of abundance-mentality when you're in an LTR, you got nothing to lose so you can do whatever with other females.

Short answers mean she doesn't care and uses you / hopes you quit talking to her (if online) = the biggest sign for you to just move on, establish dominance, don't bother people that clearly don't want you around

I intentially talked to women to test my approaches and then "blueballed" alot of women by just keeping small talk and chitchat going, there were countless opportunities in the talk where even a dumbfuck like me realised I could / should have said something flirty to move the convo into a direction and I didn't, I didn't wanna risk getting closer to "cheating territory" => I Beta'd on them so hard they got disgusted eventually.

You can almost taste how Pussy is drying up when you keep babbling about shit NEITHER of you cares about and it usually never lasted beyond 20-30 mins of blueballing a woman until she fucked off.

And quit pissing women off by not hitting on them. They’re waiting to reject you. They know what’s up when you walk over. Don’t insult them by blabbing on and on about stupid shit and denying them the opportunity. Be aggressive. Flirt. Touch them. Don't make friends. Make them feel smart for having that suspicion by validating it. Women love feeling smart.

This is the truest thing to have ever been spoken on here, escalating the entire encounter is the most time efficient thing you gonna do, it either works in your favour or it doesn't, you're only lowering any chances if you wait.

[–]NaughtyFred0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Is there any use for straight-talk in a seduction situation?

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not unless you're dealing with a really super-duper slutty slut.

You can't ask women for sex. That's the same thing as saying, "Hi. I'm a horny guy who wants to fuck, and you look like a slut. Will you confirm that you are, indeed, a slut, by having sex with me?"

You have to play the game. You know that she's coming back to your apartment to fuck. She knows that she's coming back to your apartment to fuck. You know she's a slut. She knows she's a slut. But neither one of you SAY it. You're just unwinding after drinks by watching a couple of movies, and you really want to show her your aquarium. Then, things just kind of happen because you hit it off so well.

You have to help her weave a narrative where she's not a slut, and things just sort of happened while she was swept up in the series of moments you provided her.

If you ask a girl, overtly, to fuck, and she agrees, overtly, to fuck, you're dealing with a damaged super-slut, and it may be a good idea to pass on that one.

[–]graffix130 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you really want to show her your aquarium

Or invite her over to watch Netflix. I used that cliché of a line last weekend, pretty much smiling as I said it because it's so ridiculous everyone knows it's code for "let's fuck". It worked (of course) and a few days afterwards she said "I have a feeling you didn't really invite me over to watch Netflix". Well, no shit. I knew that. And she knew that. You just have to give that hamster something to spin on and you're golden.

[–]Momo_dollar-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually so fucking true... You don't notice this as obviously in irl... but it's very obvious in social media, especially whisper..hey talking to a girl, at first she's reserved but interested, move over to snap chat, she's again reserved a bit, then she suddenly opens up tell you her life story and becomes very open to meeting. If you don't progress she then goes cold.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is so valid that it is almost a truism.

Thank you for the insightful post.

If anyone would like a primer on transactional analysis, I recommend "Games People Play" by Eric Berne.

When you read the book, remember that the child/parent/teacher model is just that (a model) and is not something to dwell on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_People_Play_(book)

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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