LTR Theory & Tips MEGATHREAD

tyranus89 · 2014-08-18T15:55:31+00:00

One of the major differences between LTRs and pickups/plates is the introduction of what Athol Kay calls "beta qualities". I know MMSL has taken a lot of flak from TRP community lately, but we can all agree that the book was great.

AFBB is a huge part of TRP, and we see it in action all the time. However, remember that there are two sides of that coin. If you are too AF, then she'll go somewhere else to find her BB. Your alpha qualities must be tempered with "beta qualities" in order to make her feel secure.

Kay advocates for "beta qualities" such as being able to maintain the home (or 'nest' for the evolutionary psychology standpoint), being able to cook, being trustworthy and affectionate. These have nothing to do with spinning plates. Plates, if they're on the same commitment level and understanding that you are, don't care about these things. But an LTR will leave you if she doesn't see that you can provide some stability.

In short, for an LTR, you want to be both the Alpha Fucks and the Beta Bucks. Make it so that she doesn't have to go somewhere else to get either of those.

bsutansalt · 2014-08-18T17:11:26+00:00

Don't say you're sorry, say thank you for her being awesome for being cool with whatever mistake you made or fucked up.

You avoid saying sorry and you qualify her good behaviors of putting up with your mistakes.

lalicat · 2014-08-19T09:09:20+00:00

My time to shine!

I'm married, have been with her for almost 10 years. Have two kids wonderful career and beautiful home life. My wife and I are RP as fuck before we even knew what RP was.

The most important thing in a RP LTR is knowing your roles, your obligations and understanding that equality isn't two straight lines, it's a yin-yang.

Knowing your roles: I'm the commanding officer and she is the executive officer. I dictate my intent and she makes it happen. She's the action piece whereas I'm the strategy and logic behind it all without getting too much into the weeds. It's the 'I don't care how you do it, just make it happen'. I have final veto authority over any decision and if I say no then there is no dwelling on it, you accept it and move on. Having that kind of authority in the relationship comes with a ton of responsibility because if you make a bad decision it's all on you, she knows this, you should know this. You must make all your decisions carefully and give time for her input. You must make decisions that are fair and make them with wisdom. She will trust these decisions and learn not to argue or second guess them. You also must be willing to admit mistakes and discuss your failures to learn from them. These are all basic leadership traits because in the relationship you're expected to be the leader! Imagine that! Occasionally you'll have discipline problems that need to be dealt with immediately. If she questions your decision you tell her to never question you. It's important to be right, or as I say 'come correct' and 'don't be sorry, be right'. People get the idea that a real RP relationship is just you dominating some poor helpless creature but it's not. You have a tremendous responsibility to take care of that person because you're removing their ability to care for themselves and make their own decisions so you better take care of them! Her role, like I said is to execute your will and intent. Her role is to ask questions when she's unclear what your intent is but only the 'how' and never the 'why'. If you're unclear and she fucks something up it's your fault not hers (this happens sometimes).

Equality in RP LTR - there is perhaps more equality in real RP relationships than in any other even though on the surface they appear to be a feminists worst nightmare. Like I said it's not two straight lines, it's a yin-yang. Division of labor ... I don't do dishes, I don't clean, I don't take out the trash, I don't do laundry, I don't mop and when I cook it's because I enjoy it. So what do I do a thousand feminists shriek? I work. I get up early, I leave the house and I devote myself to beating the day into submission and doing my very best to bring us more resources and opportunity. I attack every day with the intent of making it by bitch and bending it to my will so that we can have all the best schools for our children, we can have the two paid off cars, we can have the brand name clothing, we can have the brand name cereal with the expensive milk and premium cuts of grass fed never frozen fresh meat. I'm allowed to succeed by being completely unburdened by home life. I have a single care and single focus at work and that is to get ahead and excel. I couldn't do this if it wasn't for everything she picks up on the home front. I'm grateful for that and I let her know often that her success is my success and mine is hers. That's true equality.

I expect her to take care of herself, eat right, exercise. Look attractive, dress right and portray success to everyone we meet. This is important for my job and important to keep me attracted to her. I also have a reputability to keep her attracted to me, to give her the tingles and satisfy her need for attention and affection. We have a responsibility to be loyal to one another, a mutual obligation. We have a responsibility to portray the correct gender roles to our children and teach them to succeed in their roles.

A LTR is one of the most beneficial things a man can have in his life because he's essentially doubling his productivity. I have less discretionary income because I'm supporting a family on a single income but I'm able to do that because I focus on my career and ice gotten ahead in life. My life is on easy mode. I get everything I want ... Sex on demand with a beautiful woman, home cooked meals, all the little toys and gadgets I could ever want to keep me entrained, the joy of watching my kids grow and learn daily and the constant admiration and respect of my friends and family for having achieved all of this - but I couldn't have done it without her.

My best advice about a LTR is that if you're in one right now and you were not sure you were going to marry her from basically the moment you met then she's not the one. I went through many, many a woman to arrive at this one but the moment we had our first date I knew I was going to marry her. Before that I wasn't even sure I'd ever want to get married. I didn't even propose to her I just told her to set a date and we were going to go get married and she was like OK.

When you're in a relationship with traditional gender roles there's very little to fight about. We almost never argue and when we do it's because she did something trying to be proactive but it wasn't part of my plan and it always ends with 'good initiative, bad judgment' and we move on with the understanding I appreciate her being proactive but she needs to exercise better judgment or foresight in the future. 99% of the time her judgment is spot on though and I'm pleasantly surprised.

wall-of-meth · 2014-08-18T17:33:59+00:00

The beta side or beta qualities that you definitely need to run a long term relationship are very important. I'll follow up with some bullet points.

You need to use these qualities to make her see, you are not only dominating, you are also caring/comforting. This is where plate theory differs: You don't listen to their shit, you have a nice time, fuck, and let them complain somewhere else.

However, listening to your SO does by far not mean "Hey, she is telling me a problem, I should help solving this.". This is man-logic, and she is female. It doesn't work that way.

She just wants to hear herself and re-experience the emotions of her story she is telling. The only thing you should do is shut up, let her talk and bring in your own very short emotional evaluation. She is telling you how a friend of her is bitchy and does tons of drugs? Don't tell her to confront or talk about it. She does not want a solution for that problem. The only thing she wants to hear is "That sucks./ Sounds harsh.". Don't make her problem yours. If she wants actual advice she will ask for it.

Often a silent hug or kiss is a good option, too. But remember, don't fall into patterns. Otherwise she might get the hang of it. "Hmm, if I complain, I get kisses and hugs.". Don't go down that road.

Say No often. It is part of the big shit test to turn you into her BB. Women ask you to do things and lose respect for you when you do those things.

Also, contradict things she says rather than blindly agreeing. It makes her question her train of thought, because you don't approve it. It makes you step up your wit and game to counter successfully.

Be aware of the fact, that she will never stop to shit test you. Use every technique to diffuse those tests and vary them. Don't fall into patterns just because you now are somewhat settled. One wrong step and be ready for a little while of drama and shit tests. And this is not what an LTR consists of.
Do not let her doubt your dominance. You make the plans, you have the last word, you give approval and disapproval. Keep in mind, everything you do must be done with 100% confidence and not the littlest spark of doubt. Women smell a lack of confidence like sulfur and as you know, it will not turn out good for you.
Even though it is labelled a "Beta quality" none of these is actually beta. Beta is a term to describe a non-selfbeneficial motive of actions. Selfbeneficial motive of actions does not mean "Only do things for yourself", it does mean "Only do things because you want them yourself". You don't listen to your LTR, because its comforting for her. You listen to her, because you want a successful LTR with that girl and it contributes to this. In a nutshell: Don't do things for her. Do things with her for you.

These are my main concerns for now.

EDITed some words for clarification.

SoftHarem · 2014-08-18T16:08:33+00:00

Remember, she falls in love with the man you are when she falls in love with you. If you become too complacent, fail shit tests, and do not maintain your value it will cause her hypergamy to flare up and she'll begin to look at other options. This is normal, and natural for women. Do not hold it against them. Simply do your job as the leader of the relationship where ONE HUNDRED PERCENT of the responsibility falls squarely on your shoulders because all of her agency has been given to you. You better have your shit together to keep the relationship on track and maintain two way trust. That being said, relationships are not for everyone, but they do have a place for some RP men, and they certainly have a place in TRP. Regardless, keep the state out of your bedroom and never sign a marriage license. A good compromise is to have the ceremony and throw a party if it ever gets that serious.

2014-08-18T23:36:10+00:00

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BetterToBeFeared · 2014-08-18T19:17:46+00:00

The biggest thing I have seen destroy my friends in an LTR and probably the #1 thing that most guys in an LTR are afraid of is getting cheated on. Getting cheated on simultaneously crushes their ego, enduces rage and turns them into a irrational mess. I have seen numerous friends cheated on in their LTRs, not a huge sample size, but enough to count on at least two hands. Here are my observations on a few of the relationships and my profiles of the cheating whore before I knew they were cheats.

Gentleman, I present to you my wall of shame:

Whore #1: Blond party girl that went to a giant state school in the US. Would constantly talk about how she would fuck lots of guys in college. Had a rich daddy that was never home and just sent her money for clothers, cars, etc. Came on to me in front of him on one occasion and walked around the house naked while I was in it.

Relationship #1: Guy was pure beta. Girl could do no wrong and would never get called out on anything. He provided her with breakfast lunch and dinner and would even go out alone to pick up the takeout and bring it back to her. Guy would say "I'm sorry baby" after anything like it was his fault - if the weather was bad he would apologize profusely. Girl disappeared for a weekend to go get fucked by another guy.

Whore #2: Loved going out to bars and clubs. If her boyfriend couldn't go she would go out with her friends or coworkers anyways. At the bars and clubs she would actively flirt and touch other guys even if her BF was there. She would blow up on her boyfriend over the smallest things and say things like "just stand in the corner and drink so you don't embarrass me"

Relationship #2: Guy would take her shit and just laugh it off. He wasn't a complete pushover but he wouldn't put his foot down, call her out, or command respect either. He was just laugh it off like she was being cute. He had a good amount of alpha qualities (big guy, football player, successful, etc.) but let her run rampant. She brought a coworker home one day while he was in the house and hooked up with him in the basement.

Whore #3: Definition of a crazy girl. Not in the angry psycho way but in the manic when-I-look-in-her-eyes-I-see-pure-chaos-and-I-don't-know-what-she-is-going-to-do-next type of way. She might get up and dance on the bar on a whim or she might sit quietly staring into space. In one moment she will be cussing her boyfriend out and in the next she's telling him how much she loves him. Past relationship was physically abusive on both sides.

Relationship #3: Guy was pretty alpha so I can't dock him any points there, but I dock him serious points for putting up with crazy. This girl might not have even been plate material due to to extreme never-stick-your-dick-in-this vibes she gave off. She cheated on him with her abusive ex, got pregnant, and almost tried to pin the baby on him.

My conclusion? There are two things you need to prevent cheating in an LTR:

You need to screen your girls ahead of time with EXTREME standards. ANY red flag and its not worth it. I don't care if she hates her family/father but has moved on and is her own independent person now. I don't care if she was wild in college but is now a sweet lady with her shit together. I don't care if she has a crazy side to her but is otherwise a good girl. Everything I listed above is plate material NOT LTR material. You want to invest a ton of time, money and dignity into a girl with any of these qualities? Would you invest that much time, money and dignity on a risky bet? If so I have some mortgage backed securities and penny stocks to sell you.
You must hold strong with alpha qualities throughout the LTR. The #1 reason I blame my friends for getting cheated on is their poor screening methods, just LTRing the first hot girl that comes along. The #2 reason is they acted too beta. Only on one occurrence did a guy act too alpha and get cheated on (but he was being dumb, not calling her for a week at a time.) The beta will most likely come as the girl pushes you into the LTR so just worry about the alpha.

bogeyegod · 2014-08-18T21:34:54+00:00

If you've never spun plates, you're not ready for a relationship. Plates will relieve you of your illusions about how women work, teach you how to maintain your frame and avoid oneitis, and most importantly, make you "real" when you do things like dread game or be willing to walk.

Her behavior will be 10x better and she will appreciate the relationship much more if she feels that you were fucking 2-3 different women, and now you're giving her a chance at monopolizing your sexual attention, but if she fails, you have no problems going back to your former situation. You can fake that to a degree, but at some point, her perception and instinct for this sort of thing are actually pretty strong.

I would say the optimal time to think about relationships is only after you've started to reach a solid SMV and more importantly, only after you have a lot of plate experience. Otherwise you have no way of objectively evaluating your woman's quality. Every single guy who learns pickup for instance and starts to get results and LTR's the first girl he finds winds up 1 year later in a WORSE position than he was before. He may have had the SMV to get the relationship, but he didn't have the experience to evaluate his woman. His woman had artificially pumped value to him because she symbolized his "victory over his beta self" - he viewed her through ego-goggles.

It is only when you stop viewing your GF as a source of validation that you can see her for what she is. And it's hard to get to that point if you haven't fucked a variety of women. You'll be confusing ho's and housewifes, failing to maintain frame because you need to keep her, and constantly having to over-use dread game to "trick" her into thinking you are this alpha male with sexual options.

BluepillProfessor · 2014-08-18T16:58:07+00:00

Thanks for this RPS! Veteran of a 20+ year marriage to a high earning, professional, ball busting lawyer. She makes most of the money, I do most of the household crap- and Oh God the taxi services: Sports, doctors and dentists. He drives all day. There should be a song about that.

Can you reframe being a Beta Bitch at home into being the Alpha fucks in bed? You betcha!

I had some built in advantages. I am a martial artist and a former competition power lifter. Despite her education and considerable organization skills I am far, far more creative and intelligent than my wife. A lot more interesting also, though that is not exactly a rare advantage. I started as an Alpha businessman and even had a couple plates that I let drop when I found my wife in Graduate School- or more accurately she found me. She approached, flirted, asked me out, and even interrupted my marriage proposal to tell me "Yes" before I even got to the question.

Can anybody guess what happened?

That twice a day sex dried up by year 3 of the marriage. Amazingly that was the year my business started going badly and I slowly betafied. Not quite "Abandon All Hope To All Who Enter" but without TRP the next 10 years were a literal hell on Earth. About a year ago, after more than a decade of despair, sexual denials, and growing hatred for this impish little disrespectful shrew I found The Red Pill.

I studied everything I could find, read more than 40 books and decided it was time to take back my balls. I went back to the gym and took charge- Commence Shit Test storm which finally died down after I showed my wife that she no longer had the power to affect me emotionally AND that I had the power to pull fresh, younger, better looking tang if I chose.

Today, TRP +1 year. We have sex at least every other day. She speaks in a feminine, sweet voice to me or else. I will not tolerate any disrespect whatsoever and she polices herself carefully, knowing the consequences (--Edit: This part was linked to TBP so let me give a hearty Fuck off Blue Pills with further exhortations to pull your panties out of your crackholes. "The Consequences" are that she incurs my displeasure. Withdrawing emotional support and validation is the TRP way. Your claims that TRP advocates the abuse of women is a lie. TRP advocates treating women how they want to be treated and does not advocate or even tolerate the physical abuse of women unless it is done in the bedroom with a safe-word). She comes home from work and falls into my arms, often completely relaxed in an instant, sighing her relief.

That is the difference between marriage 2.0 and TRP.

That is my "success story." Thanks TRP!

•Are LTRs feasible/beneficial in today's climate?

Yes, but ONLY if the man remains dominant, passes shit tests, and makes it clear that his commitment is contingent on her behavior. Married or not it doesn't matter. You must be willing to withdraw your commitment if she withdraws the sex.

•What are some ways LTR game differs from pickup and plate spinning?

In a LTR or a pickup with a random you still use 'game' to increase her attraction. You still use the same techniques except "Negging" becomes "teasing" while "break rapport" becomes "Dread." Rapport and comfort building does not end with a LTR either. Your LTR is still a woman and the most attractive thing to a woman is knowing that her LTR has options and she has to work for it.

•Handling relationship shit tests

Always have 1 in the kitty. Marry a woman who makes more money than you. Cultivate an IDGAF attitude. When you really mean it the shit tests will (almost) stop.

•Red flags, signs that it's time to move on

I love you but I'm not in love with you. Short of that most LTR problems can be fixed by TRP. Before you leave for good, try the TRP way first. Don't check out completely until you have increased your desirability and become a better man who is drawing attention from other women. Before you file for divorce, or mentally check out, try TELLING your wife in no uncertain terms how it is going to be. She will respond or she won't. Maintain frame no matter what.

•Yellow flags, things to look out for

--Forces you to qualify to have sex with her. Transactional sex is always terrible sex.
--Does not look at you with admiring, loving, soft eyes. --Criticizes you in public (or in private except in a demure, apologetic way and it is an issue about which she objectively has a point). --Does not describe you with fondness and softness to others. Her voice should go up several octaves and assume a baby-talk tone when she is introducing you to others...'this is Tom, my booooyyyyfriend' followed by a slight sigh is optimal. --Evasive about sexual experiences ESPECIALLY if she is sexually inhibited with you.

HumanSockPuppet · 2014-08-18T19:03:43+00:00

It's women who want LTRs more than men, so it is a woman's responsibility to make herself worthy of it. Remember, men are the gatekeepers of relationships.

Beta behaviours are a kind of "reassurance" that the woman has "convinced you" to stick around for her. So beta behaviours are best reserved as rewards for a woman's good behaviour. If she submissive, supportive, helpful, and caring, then she gets rewarded from time to time with a beta gesture here and there, just to let her know that she's doing good and you plan on sticking around.

TheReason13 · 2014-08-19T12:52:44+00:00

The LTR

I have written down a list of rules I call "the fundamentals" I put up in my clothing closet. They are the basics I fall back on, you can use them to your satisfaction as long as you do not compromise and give me a bad reputation with your fuck ups.

I disagree with the notion that the exact moment you provide for a female, you are exhibiting beta qualities. To me its not that simple. If you keep it systematic with some random spontaneity here and there it works in your favor. As long as you maintain a reward system your chances for success skyrocket. They haven't failed me once.

The Five Relationship Fundamentals:

1) DO NOT TOLERATE DISRESPECT. Tattoo this to your forehead (not literally you fool). Do not compromise.

2) Punish "bad behavior" with ZERO TOLERANCE, reward "good behavior" with provision and affection. Do not compromise.

3) Tattoo Briffaults Law to your forehead (not literally you fool). She will try to manipulate you with guilt trips and promises of future reciprocation to gain access to your resources. DO NOT BE A SUCKER. Demand immediate reciprocation in whatever form is appropriate to her request, and ignore her guilt trips. Do not compromise

4) Spontaneously reward her unexpectedly on occasion if she has been a good girl, but NOT OFTEN by any means and only on YOUR TERMS. Do not compromise

5) If she does not comply, next her, but PLAN FIRST. Take measures to prevent her from making false claims or pulling any shit if you end the relationship. Act like nothing in the world is the matter. Then next her as soon as possible. Do not compromise.

If she ever bitches or shit tests in a nuclear way, there is something I always repeat in my mind to make sure I maintain frame. Picture and old, enormous, intimidating oak tree. Dwarfing anything that surrounds it.

"You are an oak tree, immovable, independent, calm, strong."

Automatically, your posture will improve, your fears and insecurities will vanish, you will talk in a commanding voice, your emotions will be separate from her, your resolve will be absolutely deliberate. Sometimes the mere look in your eyes will be enough to make her submit, and on occasion wet her panties.

I've followed these "fundamentals" strictly and it has worked remarkably well in taming the most spoiled prom queens to the most rebellious ghetto queens. As long as you do not compromise she will always see you as nothing to fuck with.

She will integrate your non verbal demand for respect into her mental image of the relationship, and assume the natural submissive role regardless of what a spoiled brat she is. She will eagerly work for what she wants from you, physically and mentally.

The one thing I will never endorse is marriage. I don't care if she is the virgin Mary, if she is ignorant of the power marriage bestows her over you now, she will later. DO NOT BE FOOLED into thinking she will not use it against you, whatever doubts or conscience she has to the contrary will be out rationalized by her "support group." They will make you look like Hitler and in the end she will believe it and happily ruin you financially.

It is better to be safe than divorce raped.

ThrownAwayTRP · 2014-08-18T15:51:48+00:00

My recent post on how NOT to approach your feelings for a woman. Let their action guide your emotional response. Do not give up your emotional attention for nothing, let them earn it.

2014-08-19T01:45:11+00:00

One benefit of an LTR is good sex, on a regular basis. While /u/archwinger had a great post about how you should always have sexual options to keep her competing for you, if you're doing this right you'll be having plenty of sex and in my experience it's better than the average one night stand.

robesta · 2014-08-18T17:25:40+00:00

It's much easier to get desirable LTR behavior if you start with proper frame than rehabilitate an LTR in which you lost or never had frame in.

mordanus · 2014-08-18T19:38:11+00:00

Having an LTR is life on hardmode. The major problem with it is that the more committed you become, the harder it is to just walk away. The ability to walk away is what keeps a woman trying harder to keep you and LTR's/marriage make her stop caring about pleasing you. That is why sex dies off after marriage. That is why women let themselves go after marriage.

Always maintain that the relationship is less important to you than it is to her or she will have that power over you.

semondemon24 · 2014-08-18T21:05:50+00:00

I am currently in a LTR. We have moved in and so far its had its ups and downs but using the stuff I have learned here I have managed to maintain her attraction to me by maintaining frame and doing whatever I want...

Now to my concern... I am about to graduate with an engineering degree and I will likely make a good amount of money. She isn't going to make much money with what she is graduating in. I am worried that she is thinking she can just piggy pack off my salary and do whatever she wants. Its not the money I care about, its the principal behind just using me as a means to an end. I want to bring this up to talk to her. Any good ways you guys think I can approach her without making myself seem vulnerable and at the same time getting the information I want out of her?

Edit: I should mention that she is hot as fuck but I am by no means a beta in the relationship. She could have any guy she wants but I am definitely giving her a large dose of alpha. In the context of being a little beta, I do nice things for her but only on my terms. The reason why this issue is bothering me is bcuz her mom is totally piggy back riding her step-dad for a bunch of stuff. How do I make it clear that I am not a provider?

draketton · 2014-08-19T10:40:10+00:00

Keep your subcommunication solid, consistent and masculine at all times. This means body language, eye contact, tone and speed of voice.

When your life is tough, don't be afraid to vent troubles and admit a moment of weakness to your LTR. However, only do it with your words. Subcommunication must stay strong. You want to send the message "yeah, we're in a rough spot right now, but it won't break me down, I can deal."

Be very decisive for the both of you when it comes to the mundane details of life. This means where to eat, what clothes to wear in public outings, how chores and errands are going to be divvied up. Find local events that look interesting to you and bring your LTR along, using the wording "we're going to x at y time" to tell her.

Large expenditures of money will be necessary to keep a family-oriented LTR on track. But the less she knows about the details of these expenditures, the better.

2014-08-19T15:58:11+00:00

Some people are too broken for LTR. I think it takes two highly intelligent people with a profound admiration of each other to have a successful relationship; never compromise yourself.

Edit: good luck finding a unicorn to admire

TooMuchToDoo · 2014-08-19T17:18:50+00:00

I'm fairly inexperienced. I've never had an LTR, but also haven't ever spun plates. Would it be against my best interest to go straight into a LTR?

NikolaTeslaMGTOW · 2014-08-19T17:30:09+00:00

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2014-08-19T21:50:51+00:00

• Red flags, signs that it's time to move on

This is the biggest battle for most. So important that you keep on your mission and keep a mindset that she is replaceable.

So many of us go through a shitty relationship because we are not strong enough to put ourselves through the temporary pain that goes with purging yourself of a toxic person.

When we need to throw up, we don't like the few moments it takes to vomit. But when we get rid of that shit, we finally start to feel better.

Sometimes the best Red flag indicator is when your gut tells you something is up. There is is a reason your gut has millions of brain cells.

Trust that second brain that is telling something is not right about her.

1independentmale · 2014-08-18T16:40:16+00:00

Always be willing to walk away.

Think of your LTR as a long term monogamous plate. Go into it with the mindset that it probably won't last forever. She's not a unicorn and she's not your soulmate. She's your first mate and you're her captain for now. Love and enjoy her while you have her but be ready to put your big boy pants on and be without her at any time. If you start feeling like you can't live without her, you've lost the battle.

Don't become too dependent on her. Anything she can do for you, know that you can do for yourself, find elsewhere or hire it out, probably for less time, money and effort than it takes to get it out of her. You can't be needy for her. She's a positive benefit in your life, to be sure, but she's not necessary for your survival or happiness. There are countless other women just waiting to take her place and they're younger and hotter. Know this.

This mindset will help you deflect shit tests and be happier in general.

zlex · 2014-08-18T19:09:55+00:00

The main difference between LTR and plates for me is the fear of emotional investment. Just like when you start spinning plates and you get anxiety over approaching women, entering into a LTR comes with commitment anxiety. When spinning plates anxiety and fear comes from the pain associated with rejection. With a LTR the anxiety and fear comes from the pain of losing a connection with someone you care about and are emotionally invested in. When you lose a plate its no big deal, but when you lose someone you've been close to for many years it can be very painful. The decision to enter into a LTR is all about risk/reward analysis and whether or not you feel the reward of having that partner be part of your life is worth the risk of potentially losing that partner. It's not always the right time to enter into a LTR, especially if you are young (where relationships are mostly just a way of saving face for fucking) or you are fresh out of a recent relationship.

LTR strategy is much more complex and it's very unlike plate spinning where you can apply a pro-forma model that will generally work if applied enough times in succession. In a LTR you have to deal with your partners nuances and no single woman fits an exact mold, even if they have some of the pro-forma qualities that are outlined in RP theory.

If there is any advice I could give to someone looking for/currently starting a LTR it would be the importance of balance or at least some semblance of balance. You don't want to date someone way smarter than you, or way less successful than you, or way uglier than you. These kind of imbalances in relationships breed resentment and jealousy.

Values are important as well. If you and your partner value completely different things in life than you will have a very hard time maintaining your relationship. Personally, I value intelligence, independence and hard-work. I would never want to be with someone who was content cleaning after me all day--my girlfriend has a job that she is passionate about, and a drive to do more with her life than just sit around and lick my balls. However, that is just me, based on my experience with women, as I have found women who have nothing outside of their life except me, become obsessed with ~me~ and everything I do and don't do. Some people may be looking for exactly that, and thus its important that you find a girl who is interested in doing that with her life.

What's also important is to ensure that your partner maintains their value as a partner, and to make sure that you are maintaining your own value as well. Don't stop making decisions, don't stop being confident, don't become fat and lazy. Don't let your partner slip into oblivion either. I have seen many friend's relationships go down the shitter because their SO just stopped giving a fuck once they felt secure in their relationship. Relationships, like anything, have to be maintained, and make sure that if your SO is becoming something you dislike that you are direct with them about it. Don't pussy-foot around issues in your relationship. Be confident and demanding, but also be aware that you have to do things that your SO may want as well.

The hardest thing about LTR is maintaining confidence and manliness because you SO will expect you to also share your emotions and your problems with them. You can't be a robot, you have to develop a connection with them if you want your relationship to grow. This is another area where plating and LTRs diverge intensely. With plates you can play the macho robot man who doesn't give a fuck about any one chick. With a LTR you have to show that you give a fuck. Your SO, at some point, will know all the weak horrible shit about you. This is where plating and LTRs diverge yet again. You have to show that you can overcome your weaknesses, not just pretend that they don't exist. You can't fake that crap in a LTR. You have be a man and actually overcome the obstacles that you've shared with your SO and show that you are confident and capable.

Big flags to me are constant shit-testing, wanting to spend all/no time with you, consistently getting into arguments about nothing. I'm sure there are dead obvious signs like she cut off your cats head and mounted onto the fridge, but beyond the blatant, it's often difficult to gauge when it's time to jump ship. If you find yourself not wanting to go home, or if you find yourself constantly thinking about other women in a more serious capacity than fucking their asshole, there are probably things wrong in your relationship. The biggest signs will come from you, and not you SO. You will be miserable, unhappy, and seeking out relationships with other women in more than physical ways.

GLHF

ManOfGrapes · 2014-08-18T16:45:46+00:00

Currently in a LTR at a young age. I swallowed the pill right as I agreed to be exclusive. Needless to say, it's been an eye-opening experience.

The most gut-wrenching realization is that my generation is done for. Phones, tablets, FB, IG, etc. have absolutely destroyed any sense of integrity that we once had. Zero accountability. Zero responsibility.

But I digress, the LTR is a ticking time bomb. She is obsessed with material possesions, goes to a fashion school, and no matter how well I maintain frame, always finds a way to be unhappy. I have plenty to offer, but I am starting to believe that men simply cannot meet women's ludicrous expectations. Case in point, she constantly remarks about Mark Wahlberg's body. I A&A, but it annoys the fuck out of me.

I am not saying that there aren't great women out there, but the odds of finding one are slim. On top of that, it's nearly impossible not to be apprehensive about entering a LTR with them due to the rest of the scum out there. As a man who wishes to have a family someday, I might have to start considering an alternative, and that really pains me. To any young man out there, I would wait until post-college to even consider a LTR.

RK-no · 2014-08-18T18:52:19+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Gmun23 · 2014-08-19T17:24:13+00:00

This really hit me!

I love the words in one of Stevie Wonder's songs: "…She doesn't use her love to make him weak She uses love to keep him strong…

-Lainey

bleh321 · 2014-08-20T06:54:36+00:00

I have an interesting question...

What does it mean when your LTR does not want to move in with you until married?

I understand culture plays a part (asian) however I believe it to be in my best interest that an LTR spends time living together to see the nature of the beast in close environment.

She of course is smart enough to see that and was saddened that I was somewhat 'testing' her in when saying I'd ideally have her live with me for a period of time before marriage.

Thoughts?

Red_Shirt_Blue_Pants · 2014-08-18T15:59:48+00:00

I highly advise against LTRs with western women because you aren't getting much for all of the time and effort required to maintain a healthy relationship with a woman. I'm all about maximizing the use of time to get the most out of it and a majority of women will not be giving you anything worth endless hours of commitment. Shes after validation and attention and you're after pussy. Maybe more. The only thing you get is pussy and the second you settle in a relationship is the same instance you are settling into her frame. LTRs require effort that could otherwise be used to double your income, discover a new passiom and also meet better women. In every relationship, one person eventually gets bored. If it isn't the man, the women will wait until a better partner is found and then suddenly 180 on you. What will you have left to show for that? A bunch of daps from your bros. Its not worth actually getting into an LTR as opposed to spinning plates. I would actually just tell you to spin ltrs

1independentmale · 2014-08-18T16:00:46+00:00

SEE EDIT

Edit: WHOA, COMPLETELY WAS THINKING LDR'S, NOT LTR'S... THAT'S WHAT I GET FOR REDDITING EARLY IN THE MORNING. IGNORE THIS COMMENT AND MOVE ON.

teamjkforawhile · 2014-08-18T19:37:02+00:00

I've seen it posted here before that LTRs are TRP on hard mode, and I couldn't agree more.

SouthwellR · 2014-08-19T05:47:08+00:00

How big of a plus is a girl being

A) A virgin B) Foreign (non westernized culturally)

when it comes to judging her for entering a LTR?

2014-08-18T17:07:18+00:00

Holding your woman accountable for her actions is a big thing for me. When something happens and its explainable on your behalf but for her, she is constantly flipping a shit, take a minute (or an hour), step back, and freeze her out. Simply refuse to talk to her until she has defused. Maintain the notion that you want to talk to an adult, not a child, and will wait until you have an interaction with one. This has worked well for me lately because after defusing her, we can have a logical conversation about whatever situation happened and in the end, 4 out of 5 times, I get a legit apology for her behavior.

Patience is a virtue, its something us men possess (as long as we can maintain that aspect of self control). In a sense, we are leading by maintaining a cooler head.

NikolaTeslaMGTOW · 2014-08-18T23:51:25+00:00

If you don't trust the woman, you're not ready for a relationship.

Before you call a relationship, ask yourself: "Do I really trust this woman. If she goes out of town, is there any doubt that she'll be hooking up with dudes?"

If you think she'll ever cheat on you, you're not ready to call it a relationship. She needs to earn your trust, and you need to be open to giving her your trust.

The both of you need to be able to create a safe space where you can show your vulnerabilities, while making sure you don't become needy on her, and becoming beta.

No trust. No relationship.

RufusFlywheel · 2014-08-18T16:55:02+00:00

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=134995&highlight=test+fails

musicvita25 · 2014-08-19T13:21:20+00:00

I think for a woman to become an LTR she has to pass an extremely long checklist to allow an alpha/red pill man to let her in to a relationship. At the end of the day, to go out with someone must be built on trust, attraction and the fact you can deal with each other.

However, call me silly, but you also need to just click straight away as well as her not being a whore.

Sadly thought I'd found a really good one, until we started texting. Her text game is dreadful. Takes ages to reply, broken replies, and also quite poor. Everything else, only one bf, respectful, same ethnicity, kind, very attractive has been the one major fault.

If we cannot connect via text now, whos to say we ever will.

I believe everything must click straight away. Otherwise its an uphill battle and not worth your time.

Title	LTR Theory & Tips MEGATHREAD
Author	redpillschool
Upvotes	192
Comments	136
Date	August 18, 2014 3:39 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2dw53t/ltr_theory_tips_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/ltr-theory-tips-megathread.19623 https://theredarchive.com/post/19623

END EDIT