TL:DR - When they test you in so many ways, do not hesitate to test and even challenge back, without coming across like an insecure beta. You are qualifying her for a relationship with you on the hierarchy ladder. Trouble is, that instinct isn't natural to us, as we really didn't need it for most of earth's history. And today society tries its best to stop you from getting too smart too soon. Unlike what you fear, this will improve your relationships. An abundance mentality is mandatory, as once you have standards, you'll realize many women will fail to meet them. Don't feel guilty about it. Honesty is the best form of love.

EDIT : If I had read HSP's guide on managing women by levels, I would probably have not written this. So do check that out. This post is also somewhat disorganized and could do with better structuring.

EDIT 2 : And yes, this does sound more LTR or marriage focused, but that's because of the hierarchy on HSP's ladder (you need to raise standards significantly for higher levels, so that's where you'll need more evaluating and training). Also I'm being a little biased to the dynamics in my part of the world, which I think will last for one more generation.

I have been mulling over the need for men to create "commitment tests" and other ways to test the qualities they need in women. There has been a lot of talk on it, but they need to address the details further. I wouldn't call them as a woman's version of shit / fitness / congruence testing, they do not arise of women's needs for genes and security, they arise out of our needs to have the relationship where it should be, with an understanding of female nature - and they're challenges to her that help her grow and look up to you as well.

Old conservative societies had many ways to test their women, but these things were often known only to other women, and it needed that herd hive mind to get it to work. Far from what feminists are fond of claiming, most men did not have much of a knack for this, it was the collective herd of women at family, community, town, state or religious levels that mastered this art. I know this because those old generations and cultures are still alive in my country, but times are changing, and in one more generation all this will be forgotten.

Women have a natural instinct not only for evaluating men, but also and especially for evaluating other women (but which is often far too biased by emotion and not really good for being a man's tool) that men usually don't and have to learn the hard way. It's vitally important for evaluating her RMV and self esteem and to see if she's psychologically damaged in any way, or could have an STD, etc. etc.

As an example, in some Indian villages, a girl is made to get her feet muddy and she if she can clean herself up with as little water as possible. It's a test of how economical she can be, which makes sense for that type of society.

This has to continue at all stages of a relationship. As a relationship progresses, the tests go from screening tests ("What was the first words out of her mouth and how did she treat you on the date?") or testing for interest to actual challenges where her commitment and the qualities you need from her are tested. Kino for one can be used as an interest indicator at any stage in the relationship. Actual challenges could be anything like suddenly organizing a major family event and seeing how she responds - the goals are yours. This also helps her grow and defer to you if she is willing and able to rise up to meeting your needs. Although the laws and all might all be on her side.

This should not be done in a feminine way, or else it comes across like an insecure beta always worried about the relationship - and fear is a self fulfilling prophecy. Hence I use the word 'challenge' instead of 'test'. You have to come across as a man with standards whose company is earned down the road although in the beginning you are the initiator. That might not sound nice, but only victories won the hard way are ultimately valued.

As a man, you don't test your woman out of worry or insecurity over her fidelity for e.g. if you know your AWALT you ought to know the drill. But you do see if she can enter your frame and pass compliance tests which will decide if she qualifies to get up the ladder and stay there.

A test simply evaluates where you are at any given point in time. A challenge actually needs you to grow up and find yourself where you have to be. A challenge is next level. The masculine principle needs challenges. Men who challenge women are highly attractive. It is true that such relationships are a bit more testy than just ones that keep the peace, but that's also vital to keep the spark up.

Of course before you even get to the testing stage and then the challenge stage, you must observe and filter for obvious red flags and any other fucked up shit. That is called screening and you are filtering out the obvious red flags.

Remember, don't feel guilt about this, or that you might make someone feel bad. They're evaluating testing you at every step, in ways that even your doctoral examiners wouldn't have thought of, in ways that even they might not realize, and they feel entitled to it. And do not ever fear losing her because subconsciously your intuition knows she (and a lot of other women ) is going to fail to meet your standards. An abundance mentality is damn crucial here. If you aren't clear about your needs and standards and don't have standards for the women in your life, you'll live to regret it.

In the past survival pressure gave us way too many challenges in itself. In the process, a man would learn to navigate life (or perish) and a woman would automatically have a need to be in a man's frame of things. If you've been in the military, you'd know that nothing quite builds bonds like common enemies, miseries and challenges and survival pressures. These days we do not have that survival pressure, therefore our relationships increasingly lose value for anything beyond ONS. How can anyone value something that isn't earned? The greatest victories are the ones for whom you threw your life at.

Women cannot do this consciously in the era of women's liberation. They are too far a creature of instincts, and without herd pressure and the hive mind, or the dominance of a man, they can't do it. Some may be very evolved cases, but such women are often spiritual or religious and even they aren't unicorns. Men still have the military and men's friendships intrinsically have a certain rock solidness that women's don't. But beyond that there isn't a need to grow. It has to be created.

Just as women expect a bit of the feminine (just a bit, the yin drop in the yang) in a man for comfort, a man too must expect a bit of the masculine (the yang drop in the yin) in a woman for her to stay healthy. Or else you'll be a psychopath or autistic and she'll be borderline insane. Of course, in this androgynous era of the sexes, you'll have plenty of feminine qualities to test for as she's testing for your masculinity, and that's 90% of it (and good luck with that). So don't jump on me for this. This is only looking for a woman not mentally unstable.

I get it now that ltrs and solid marriages in the past were the result of masculine energy underpinning the relationship, not feminine. Trust, stability and loyalty are actually masculine qualities.

In my first (and a disaster of a) relationship (I'm not American btw), I was a clueless guy who had no such detector, but in retrospect I now see that relationship shouldn't have gone beyond the first conversation if I was really smart, or the first date. Didn't help that all of my and her relatives did their very best to emotionally manipulating me into committing, but my gut was right. I was properly conned by her entire circle - they evaluated me and every single thing I did or didn't with ten pairs of eyes, and kept her far away from any possible attempt to screen her. I was all alone and clueless and my own family ended up showing me their real colors when they shamed me for raising some doubts (my gut was right) and not "manning up and doing the right thing". If you're wondering, ltrs and marriages are still the vast majority of relationships here. Yes, it was ultimately my fault. It was my responsibility as an adult man and I failed at being that man then. But without going through that I wouldn't have come here or ever had my eyes opened.

Such behavior is now red flag in my books and I now know when someone is cooking up stories to avoid any chance of them getting screened. If I sense a major difference in taste or any sign she has trouble accepting the things that make me uniquely me (not the shit, the good stuff), or her nature isn't my type, then it's a straight no beyond anything casual - my country and town is too conservative for ONS right now and you risk losing your reputation with damaged women here, so plates are where you start (that too is new to this gen, the gen before that started at LTR or marriage right away).

I have never been so undignified to get into a relationship because she's rich or her family's high up anything (and I've seen lots of men do this) - I can't be bought. That isn't even a natural criteria either. Doing so automatically puts her in a dominant frame and I've seen what happens to men in those relationships, how the lack of respect is slowly killing them. In the past, I could be shamed or emotionally manipulated though into escalating, but not anymore. Sex is a strong need, for many people it could be relationship too, but don't sell yourself out for it.

From the behavior of her family and my own, I understood then as men, we are on our own and society values women very disproportionately. People only respect you to the extent you let them, and when you're authentic it is not necessary for all women (or even most women) to be compatible with you, or even like you for having your standards, and that's a good thing.

As men, our natural visual instincts evaluate her SMV pretty quickly, as nature designed us mainly to spread our seed and build outer civilization. Our hormones make sure our dick gets a huge head start over our brains, which might need over a decade or even 2 to catch up. But we don't have a natural commitment test mechanism (probably because for most of human history or for most of the animal kingdom, the male of the species really never needed it). This and all the BP logic we're fed has made sure we're out of touch with our guts (when in doubt, always trust the gut).

Filtration is more intuitive though - it is just observation of the obvious. Other stuff that needs to go through tests and challenges requires more skill and experience to identify. It takes even more to learn how to test and how to challenge a woman. It's not naturally hardwired in us men. Evolution gave us some filters, but we never had much of a need for the rest. In most animal species the male exists just to spread his seed. So the rest of the testing and challenging framework has to be systematically created, not unlike the way an instructor sets up bootcamp. But not so obviously overt.

Therefore it's vitally important that we have a thread where people share their experiences on this. The sidebar books and the sub already have quite a bit on this, and experienced guys know this very well. But we're need more examples, and developing the skill for this in the first place. There's nothing better than organizing your thoughts and learning from your experiences and those of others.

Now I can't give too many examples myself - still quite a bit of observation to do and my history is mostly huge failures. Doesn't help that almost all the men I used for a reference are utterly codependent betas and my conservative country has nearly everyone married up (the only time where people actually get out of that and show their actual instincts for relationships are in college, or through work). Mostly I have learnt more from what NOT to do than what to. But in my generation or the next, we will become much more like the West.

Some tests are universal, others are quite particular to you and your needs, your relationship and your society or community or country's overall culture. Fear of losing a relationship and the need for sex can force men to set their bars very low which simultaneously puts her on a pedestal as the goddess who will meet your needs. She knows it too, and anyone who is not you can see your behavior from a mile away. She however is looking for her god, or is probably so caught between her instincts and what society tells her that she's actually schizophrenic in a way and can never have a healthy relationship (as Franco's Manual of Seduction said way back in 2004).

All kinds of relationships with women can be screened and tested and challenged. These things even apply to women whom you just notice around you but have no relationship with yet. You can't wait for a relationship to start developing these ideas and habits. Test and observe everyone, but be subtle about it.

As your relationship progresses from Hi to ONS to plate to LTR or even marriage, you move up from screening to tests and actual challenges.

Screening tests are kind of simple. Drugs and suicide scars? Huge red flag. Those are the obvious ones. There used to be families where the men went bad (and I know dozens of such cases in every street even now), but the women rose up to support the family by their good qualities. But women going bad was seen as the end of the family and a healthy society in general. And for good reason. So checking for addictions and smoking, etc. Big red flag.

Naturally overly fat women come across as lazy and could have disorders (I know it for a fact fat is a synonym for lazy). Overly thin and underdeveloped ones could have hormonal imbalances and other disorders. Low HB that isn't an accident of birth and mental issues are in fact correlated. This is kind of obvious at the filtration stage.

Well there's no way to find out how good she is at sex unless you take the plunge. Roosh's tales and struggles at mastering game are pretty revealing field reports and you can figure out a lot of criteria for all kinds of relationships with women on the sliding scale. Many women in those stories are terrible in bed. He might have given up the game now, but hey, he maxed himself out. Experience gets its respect.

So about the sex, or for that matter anything else, can she get better at it and is willing to?

A more subtle one would be if she's always critical or toxically perfect. That can wear you down mentally and emotionally in an LTR. You can't know that right away. Sometimes you deliberately don't act like Mr. Perfect and see how she responds. This is a big one. Does she keep looking for ways to find something wrong, bitch about it and get miserable or can she find something positive even on difficult days? I tell ya, some ladies in my family are pathological perfectionists and masturbate their tongues forever complaining about something wrong. It pretty much guarantees they're never going to be happy today and they'll goad everyone around them to anger.

I have no idea why they do that if they want to be happy, but I guess some people are addicted to chronic patterns of misery. They wait forever for perfection to fall before showing their good side. So is she making her goodness totally conditional (and the nastiness is the default mode) or does she bring her best out as a matter of principle or nature? That's a red flag to me.

I don't expect a woman to be Ph.D gold medal kind of nerd smart, but she can't be as dumb as some of the ones I see. Some are literally too stupid or too crazy to live. What kind of partners or mothers will they make? You want to stick your dick in crazy stupid? You do need to test that on a range of topics.

How adaptable is she and how open she is to learn new stuff? If that's important, you have to test that. Some people can turn out to be too rigid in their tastes and unwilling to learn anything new. This I found out the hard way. A red flag is when she particularly hates something you particularly like. I am not talking about the usual likes or dislikes children carry into adulthood, those are benign. More serious stuff can be deal breakers.

What about money? Does she accept it when you say something's too expensive and would rather want you over your purse? Does she ever offer to pay for a date? Or is she always nagging about how her girlfriends get showered with expensive gifts? Is she a gold digger? Is she used to a life much higher up the social ladder? Better not ever get to an LTR with those. Social status for women becomes too big a variable once you're at the LTR level.

I didn't think a time would come when I had to test for women liking kids. But if that's priority to you, you must see how much she likes them.

Stress and discomfort testing. We men now know embracing discomfort is good for us. Not necessarily the modern woman. Does she lose her mind if the AC doesn't run for a while or the waiter is held up by a few minutes? You better not lose yours though. If you're in an LTR or marriage, why not just take a trip with a pre dawn itenary and see? Let her for God's sake not be like my eldest cousin. Well, and let her for God's sake, not be BPD. The stress challenges are vital to evaluate how he handles discomfort. The "strong empowered" women of today are just mental and physical pussies compared to their grandmothers and they can totally lose their shit over nothing.

How serious is she about exercise? Will she go and pay for her own membership even if you can't join her? Or will she just ride along with you and your wallet? If you're fit and you expect the same from her, does she want to keep herself fit for you? Is she willing to diet? Well that also means having an interest in cooking for me.

If she cares for hygiene, one day keep your place more disordered than usual and call her over or surprise her at hers and make a small neg over something out of place and see. Careful with this though. This is not something you do until you're evaluating for an LTR and she knows your baseline standards well.

What I've seen is that women adapt to situations easily, but changing their personality is very difficult as they take no responsibility for it if you're around. Men actually have it easier to change once they recognize they have shit to be fixed. It requires a lot of work for women to change their issues, more than that for men. For men the hardest part is getting them to have an honest look in the mirror and making good habits routine. For women to change, they have to respect the man's frame in the relationship and enter it.

Many women who do have the ability (and humility) for self evaluation had strong, wise fathers or male teachers or healthy relationships with men. Almost all women with broken men in the family are damaged to some degree or the other.

When they ask you if you can cook (and I can very well, so I expect the same from her), can you turn it around, claim to be a foodie and put that to the test? If choreplay is the order of the day, a pressure flip will put that in its place very quickly.

Healthy self esteem is another major criteria. You don't want someone who's toxic at both extreme ends (extremely low or too much ego). There's no growth potential in either.

Arrogance is a deadly sin in my book. I would see how she behaves as a customer.

Is she addicted to comparisons and has no frame of her own? Is she ever going to accept you and her real life or will she always be looking elsewhere at other couples? Resistance to reality is a huge source of friction, and the worst part is, it doesn't solve the problem either.

How much of this relationship is even about needing or loving you and how much of it is all about her needing to be loved? Are you just a trophy? In my country, I know a lot of women who go to work and earn as much as men of their age, but the flip side is that they can't value anything that's now a choice and not essential need for survival.

An overly dominant, disrespectful, or feminist woman? Believe me even they can't stop themselves from AWALT in the right hands. Lots of guys have brought out the girls in them needing to be dominated. But do you seriously want one of them for an LTR?

Commitment tests and challenges are very important in LTRs and marriages. Although marriage I'd never recommend to anyone in America the way things are now, there are other countries still where you're better off in LTRs and marriages at least for one more generation. In such cases, creating the military grade bonding through challenges is critical. Therefore testing and challenging becomes important.

Though we trash marriage for what it's become, I can tell you that it comes with some unique marathon challenges you don't get in a casual hookup, and I pretty much can give a list of everything that can go wrong. That's why I have special respect for the guys at mrp. If you don't want ltrs and marriage, don't go for it. Your choice. That car you wanted could be yours...

If you're considering marriage in a country not America or Sweden, one more criteria is how well does she get along with your side of the family?

This could happen even if your relationship has ended. If she's not LTR material, and you have to demote her to plate. What do you want from her then? If you broke up with her, will she be that kind of ex spewing venom about you around the whole town? Will she be the type that can put a metoo on you? If yes, what will you do about it? Say you have kids and shared custody (I don't thank god)? What kind of ex wife are you seeking? Are you amicable or has she sworn to be your worst enemy till death? It will matter if it goes to court one day if you missed the flags.

In order to do this, your frame needs to be very strong, backed up by reality and you have to be clear about your standards and goals and well aware of RP relationship truths. You must know yourself and what you are capable of (at least have the confidence for it and not be ashamed to fail). You must know your red flags very well. You must totally know your deep shit and how to own it - that stuff is not for anyone else - it's your responsibility. You should have learnt to keep women as the icing on your cake and live independently if that's the honest thing. You should have learnt to overcome your fears of life, death, loss and destruction and be ready to burn it all to the ground and start over id need be. You should decide which level this woman belongs on the ladder or whether you yourself want a relationship to go up the ladder at all. All these things, if not accounted for, will compromise your attractiveness, your frame, your values, your authentic expression and your integrity.

You need to create scenarios or look for occasions where the qualities you want can be revealed.

She only selects if she will have sex with you or not instinctively, and of course, the way society is now, by evaluating you all the time, she retains control over the frame and you end up deferring to her even if you pass her tests. If she's the only one evaluating you, she's still the dominant in the relationship. By having standards, testing and challenging her, you set right that power imbalance.

However, beyond her ability to decide if you will have sex with her (with her mind you), everything else is under your control, you decide if the relationship is worth escalating or maintaining and it is simply not worth sacrificing your integrity for a relationship. Never. Not on pain of death or even destruction.

BTW, you too have power to decide if you will want to have sex with her. She's not the only one with options.

As you go from approach to ONS to plate to LTR to even marriage, you go from screening to testing to challenges and outright training. But only if it is worth escalating in the first place. Otherwise you're wasting your time, energy and money and would be better off with someone who can rise up to your standards.

Testing can be turned into a fun way to escalate stuff too. Not just her tests, but yours. Rising up to challenges brings out the best in us and creates the much needed intensity.. Being too cozy and hooked on pleasures usually soon bring out the worst down the road.

You are then left with some simple choices :

Stay away from this woman at all costs.

This woman isn't worth the trouble so next.

This woman ticks a lot of boxes and can improve so it may be worth putting in attention, time and energy depending on what kind of relationship you want with her on the hierarchy (this is important)

This woman can go to the next level on the ladder. But if she can't stay there, back down she goes.

I'd say that simply being in a man's frame and honoring his mission is quite a test for a woman and it used to be that way till a couple of generations back. The kind of respect these women had for their men isn't seen now, not with these purse holding betas who need a second mommy to teach them basics.

There are no perfect men or women that tick every single box, so be realistic, but red flags are a clear violation - learn to recognize them and build a list. It's not necessary nor possible for her to tick all the green flags, but there must be the possibility of her accepting your frame and be willing to push herself if needed to tick them.

If a woman can't really be trained, isn't open to new stuff, or has no desire to grow for your sake and hers, there's no point in keeping up a relationship for very long with her. To me this is the most important criteria past red flags if you want her to get to LTR level or sometimes even plate.

You are not perfect either, but I assume at this point you can be honest about the guy in the mirror and have standards for yourself, have achieved said standards and are willing to keep what works and improve on what doesn't. When you can do this with yourself, you can do it with all the women you will get to meet without coming across as a hypocrite.

EDIT 3 : Thanks to bsutansalt for summarizing it to a T. I'm borrowing your quote. ...Yes, a lot of women you like will fail to meet your standards. That's a feature, not a bug. A lot of you reading this will be scared to screen because you know deep down a lot of women are going to fail and you'll have to NEXT them. Don't be a pussy because you're afraid to lose them and then never actually check them on the bullshit behaviors you don't like--this is one reason why having abundance is so god damn important...

Finally do consider the scenario in your part of the world as women's mentalities and even emotions are shaped strongly and thoroughly by the overall herd pattern, plus which way society's heading, which in turn should let you decide what kind of relationship and sexual strategy best serves your needs. You'd be a fool to ignore society's collective momentum and think you can be that one exceptional case. Don't forget, AWALT and the laws of attraction.

Don't feel bad or ashamed of this, even if others try to make you feel that way. Honesty is the best form of love and you're doing yourself and everyone else a favour. A stitch today is better than surgery tomorrow.