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“Owning and Operating Men” – A woman’s guide to getting it wrong

October 15, 2013
22 upvotes

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Post Information
Title “Owning and Operating Men” – A woman’s guide to getting it wrong
Author Archwinger
Upvotes 22
Comments 23
Date October 15, 2013 3:07 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/owning-and-operating-men-a-womans-guide-to-getting.232819
https://theredarchive.com/post/232819
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1oi6gt/owning_and_operating_men_a_womans_guide_to/
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[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Double exactly this. You have no idea how many women will tell you that the number one thing they want in a guy is a "good listener who makes me laugh and always offers a shoulder to cry on, and is in touch with his emotional side."

They're so through dating jerks and just want a nice guy! But that cute guy who's only maybe a little bit of an asshole she met at the club last night, who definitely made her laugh with the way he was constantly teasing her ... he's definitely different than the last guy who did the exact same thing and fucked her that same night. She's going to give him a chance to be Mr. Right!

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Reposting link to the Onion's glorious article Girlfriend Changes Man Into Someone She's Not Interested In

[–]1PaulRivers100 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

RebuildVer1 - great breakdown.

However, as is often the case, I think a lot of this comes down to context and how one chooses to interpret what's written.

  • "you have to lead the way" - this "could" be true if it's aimed at the woman who expect the guy to do EVERYTHING for her - she's miserable, a man will make her happy. She's sitting at home alone not meeting any men - a man will come along and "make it happen" somehow. Sex life not satisfying because he's not doing some physical move right? She'll keep telling him everything is great, somehow he'll figure it out.

To use the Captain and First Officer analogy, maybe she's a shitty first officer. The author goes to far in implying she should become the captain - but no one wants (long term) the first officer who's constantly drunk, incompetent, spends most of his time in his quarters, no one likes him, and his talking mostly consists of complaining that everything bad that's happening is the captains fault and we're all going to die.

  • "The most attractive thing a woman can do for a man is to give him a way to serve her". Again, I absolutely agree that she goes way to far here. No one's happy when she tries to be the Captain. But what are the specifics here? If he's to beta that's bad, but some women have just gotten way to much of that "strong independent and never relies on anyone for anything" mentality. This is good advice for the category of woman who want you to take control but then fight you on it - things that would work are like "let him pick you up for the date", or "don't try to plan the date yourself (as the woman)".

Basically - especially after looking at her picture that you posted - her advice is extreme for someone with an even view, but is useful for women who are to invested in being "independent" and don't understand why things keep not working out for them.

When the follow keeps fighting for control with the lead, no one is happy.

Certainly, of all the things I've seen posted, I think this is some of the least off-base advice from women to other women. Taken to far it's terrible, but taken in moderation it's good.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy Link

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[–]1PaulRivers100 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, after being on other forums it's incredibly refreshing to run into a real response from someone who was interested in the topic.

Unfortunately - I'm not sure how much more I have to add.

Like I said, I agree that it's totally valid to interpret what she wrote as "to freely accept the alms and adoration given by Betas and ask them for more".

But I don't think you're picturing the kind of girl I'm picturing. I meet a fair number of women who seem honestly confused that men enjoy the woman being happy. They are 100% convinced somehow that men don't like women being happy, and that it's bad to be happy if you want to attract a guy. I don't know how this happens, but I see it happen over and over again.

I've met a lot of women who believe that a man doing something for her is some sort of horrible crime - yet they crave it. I don't mean "he comes over and builds her a deck" - I mean "he picks her up in his car". They've been simultaneously convinced that they want an alpha man, but that they should shoot down every chance he has at showing off how alpha he is. They honestly don't understand why it's not working.

I think some women need a little more advice that's more about letting the Captain lead rather than struggling for control with him all of the time. I think there's a fairly large group of women who simultaneously want the more alpha characteristics, but sabotage it by not just testing him, but by actually fighting for control.

Let me try putting this another way - for people who are completely self absorbed, "you have to lead the way" means "you actually have to do some sort of work on your side". I've met girl after girl who honestly doesn't seem to understand that when a guy invites her to do something, and she puts him as her lowest priority because her mom wants to have supper, her friends are going out, and she wanted to catch the latest episode of gossip girl. She actually feels like she's "leading the way" by cancelling other minor plans to hang out with him.

Likewise, she feels like is she accepts anything from him (that puts him in an alpha frame) she's "letting him serve her" and that's bad. The fact is - women expect men to do most of the planning. When viewed in one light, this could be seen as the man "serving" the woman.

What doesn't work is when this becomes an increasing slippery slope of serving or leading, where the guy serves more and more and the girl leads more and more.

When this does work is when this just gets her into dating the guy in the first place, and stays constant from there.

Despite the extremes you sometimes hear about, the vast majority of men do not want to date a girl who's visually attractive but has absolutely nothing else going for her - no personality, no other interests, etc etc. For a long term relationship, most guys want a women who they find at least somewhat interesting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The most attractive thing a woman can do for a man is to give him a way to serve her some cock.

There, now it's true!

[–]iKill_eu0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The most attractive thing a woman can do for a man is to give him a way to serve her.

For a lot of BPs (I would know, because I used to apply here) this is absolutely true. There are many, many men who do seriously want nothing more than to make a woman happy, with the presumption that they will be made happy in return. With this general idea, there is seriously nothing more attractive to some betas than a woman offering herself up as a damsel in distress.

I've been reading The Manipulated Man as recommended by some, would recommend it to any RP interested men. There's so much truth in that book, it's horrifying.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

This webpage (which is really more of an ad trying to get women to sign up for “classes” and buy books on how to “train men”) actually starts out sounding positive. A few sentences in, I was thinking that maybe I had stumbled upon something slightly intelligent. Because it begins by telling women that their desires and their happiness are their own responsibility. What a concept! If you’re unhappy about something, maybe it’s not your man’s fault, it’s yours.

Surely, I think to myself, this text is going to continue by explaining to women how to change for the better and make positive improvements in their lives, by taking responsibility for their own happiness.

Wrong! The remainder of the text goes on and on about how the true secret to happiness is taking charge of your man and changing him. It includes real gems about how men “really want to contribute to our happiness” and are “thrilled to be along for the ride” that is a woman’s life.

Be sure to prepare your life to receive a good man, it advises, by having multiple towels in your bathroom, a double bed or lager, and two nightstands. And if a man doesn’t call you back after a date, be sure you’re busy entertaining yourself with other men when he finally does call! (That almost sounds red-pill! Too bad no guy in his right mind wants an alpha-red-pill-man for a girlfriend.)

And, of course, never hesitate to seduce a man into your ideas.

Remember ladies, a man “will lose interest in you if you don’t use him for your pleasure.” I know I’m lining up to get this lady’s book today.

[–]ChaoticParadox9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is ultimately the problem with women today. They are trying to be DUDES.

[–]Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's such a solipsism twist going on here. It's like, women see this alpha behavior, and they're into it, so they try to duplicate that success by actually being alpha.

[–]TRP Vanguardnicethingyoucanthave3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

a double bed or lager

I wouldn't have bothered reading the article if I hadn't seen this statement in your post. I had to go and see if you were exaggerating - you're not. That's a direct quote. They actually advise women to have a double bed or larger.

That is hilarious. Hil. Lar. Iious.

I have never in my life met a woman who sleeps on a single bed. They all already have large beds - and even if they didn't, why would I care? I can bang you on the floor baby. That advice is like telling men that the secret to bagging a girl is to have clean socks. Nobody cares.

In fact, I've known a couple of girls who had obnoxiously huge beds that were too fucking high off the ground. My bed is low enough that I can stand on the corner and bang a girl doggy style. That works really well and is much more comfortable for both of us than to have me kneeling behind her on her goddamn cloud fortress california king.

All that said, the last paragraph of the article does contain what I would call a RP truth: "He will lose interest in you if you don’t use him for your pleasure."

Couldn't agree more. I hate it when a girl is so overly independent that I can't help with anything.

[–]TannhauserOverture9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

fuck me isn't that exactly what got the huffpo hyperventilating because someone on TRP talked about "training women"?

[–]iKill_eu13 points14 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

But it's ok when girls do it!

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Its interesting when women try to act like alpha men do, to attract men. Yeah, I dont think that is going to work out very well.

It is perfectly acceptable for women to lie, cheat, deceive, game, and leave for more money and take half of what her ex had when she goes. All is fair for them, but we are not allowed to do anything but earn and hand over the paycheck to them.

[–]iKill_eu3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a form of solipsism. They subconsciously know what they want, so they perceive men to want the same.

That said there is nothing as frightening to a woman as a man who is cheating the system. When their carefully constructed position of power is threatened with exploitation, they begin to get very, very angry.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is satire, right?

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I thought so at first, but I can't find anything in the website that indicates anything but complete and utter seriousness. Women are the "greatest untapped resource" in the world, and if they're not getting what they want, they need to enroll in the $5000 spring mastery course.

There are press releases, clips from articles in magazines where this woman, who's run this "school" for over 10 years, has been published. I think it's a real thing, which makes it even funnier. You totally can't make this shit up. Seriously. You can't possibly fabricate something out of your imagination that's funnier than the real thing.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And yet, when men figure out ways to meet, pick up, and interact with women (ala Roosh's "Bang", etc.) we are "scumbags" and "manipulative".

Greatest resource, indeed. They're a great resource to pad some woman's checking account.

[–]macardent1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

LOL. They have a fucking quiz at the end

[–]SacreBleuMe3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

  1. When a man says No to your request, you
    • Yell at him and get it for yourself.
    • Stop wanting it and forget about it.
    • See how you could have more fun seducing him into your great idea.

This sounds eerily like pushing through resistance in pursuit of sex, which feminists deplore as coercion or rape.

[–]thewrightstuff88-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a shame women don't know what they really want and those who do are lost causes

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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