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Plates and Non-Exclusivity - "Are you sleeping with other people?"

FrameWalker
December 27, 2014
70 upvotes
/r/TheRedPill

One of my plates put up LMR every other time we had sex. “I don’t want to have sex tonight/I’m on my period” etc. I would always smile relax, and get ready for sleep. She would immediately jump on top of me and ask me why I was going to sleep before taking my clothes off. The ease with which this happened eventually triggered a huge shit test from her, about 6 weeks into the relationship. It’s probably the biggest shit test I ever passed.

Her: “Sorry we’re not having sex tonight”
Me: “Sex is not a big deal”
Her palms get sweaty and after a while she starts rambling but basically is hinting that she’s afraid I’m one of those guys that will never be exclusive. She states "I feel like you're sleeping with other girls because you don't care about sex"

Me: "ok goodnight" (this often works btw. you don't profess your love for polyamoury, becky's tits, etc when a girl starts a relationship conversation. It bores you. you listen stare blankly and change the subject. It's beta bait just ignore it as a go-to unless she presses)

In my mind she doesn't ever explicitly ask a question so I don't answer any.

Her: "You didn't really answer my question."

Me: "Ok then, what are you asking me really?"

Her: "Are you sleeping with other girls?"

This is where I hold my cards close to my chest but do my best to speak genuinely and truthfully. When a girl is explicitly asking, I want to be honest. If it ever does go towards the LTR route, I don't want it to be an LTR where I feel the need to lie to them to appease them.

Me: Short pause- "Yeah I'm seeing other people, aren't you?" - pressure flip

Her: "Well I kinda stopped..."

Me: "Commitment is a really big deal for me. It takes me a long time to trust someone, and it takes many months, sometimes 5 or 6 or even more before I enter into something serious with someone."

She pretty much agreed, visibly relaxed and started cuddling with me.

Her: "I was so worried you would lie to me. I'm really glad you didn't just don't give me any STDs"

We had sex twice that night and once in the morning. This is an example of a girl agreeing to be non-exclusive, after she explicitly opens the discussion. I spun her for about 2 more months after that night. The LMR before sex would pop up once in a while- so much shit testing from her. One night she was on her period and after a half hearted handjob she said "I'm sorry I can't do more for you." I am okay with getting a little messy - made her cum twice with my fingers and even had some bloody period sex. Because of her looks I was hoping this girl would step up to the challenge and show consistent good behavior for the possibility of a long term relationship, and it looks very unlikely. That night I decided to soft next, and faded it out. I'm so glad I did - I am focused on interactions that lead to experiences that reinforce the frame I want. Hanging on to uninterested girls leads to bad habits.

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Post Information
Title Plates and Non-Exclusivity - "Are you sleeping with other people?"
Author FrameWalker
Upvotes 70
Comments 44
Date December 27, 2014 7:22 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/plates-and-non-exclusivity-are-you-sleeping-with.27035
https://theredarchive.com/post/27035
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2qjw6h/plates_and_nonexclusivity_are_you_sleeping_with/
Red Pill terms in post
Beckybetaframelong term relationshiplast minute resistanceplateshit testthe red pillclosesoft nexting
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Comments

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

 "I feel like you're sleeping with other girls because you don't care about sex"

This is how they pry out information from you. No straight forward questions. They grew up figuring out ways to not get caught. And now they use it on you.

Open-ended questions fellas. Real nice and manipulative shit.

[–]WavesBeneath 22 points22 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Agreed. This is usually my response.

[–]Endorsed ContributorCrimsonCapsule13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's fantastic. Makes me want to carry a headband in my pocket so I can give her the full effect.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Absolutely.

My girlfriend does this all the time with smaller things.

"I'm cold."

"I'm hungry."

"I think it's about time we took our relationship to the next level."

etc..

All while sheepishly glancing at me like she just nicely asked me for a favor, I know what she's trying to say. "Can I wear your coat?", "Can we go eat at that place I like", "Can I move in with you without paying rent?"

But to all of these I pretty much reply with the equivalent of "Cool story bro!" She just gets more and more noticeably frustrated until I make her squeeze out an actual question about what she actually wants. Heaven forbid she might actually have a possibility of being rejected in her inquiry.

These "Open ended questions" are nothing more than a "Heads I win, tails you lose" kind of negotiation, and you should not give in to their frame.

[–]Rise80 5 points5 points [recovered] | Copy Link

Remember the great Rollo's saying, "the medium is the message". Girls speak and act covertly. They are usually not straight to the point like men. They think in circles.

[–]sixfingerring-1 points0 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

If you ever find yourself talking to a communications/information science/media in general student/worker (phew), that is also into TRP, and you say that Rollo came up with the saying "the medium is the message", he'll laugh at you and leave. So here's me, saving you, from future embarrassment; Marshall McLuhan first presented that phrase in the paper "Understanding Media: The Extensions of Man" from 1964. Actually a good read; http://web.mit.edu/allanmc/www/mcluhan.mediummessage.pdf

[–]friedbats0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for pointing that out, I thought the same thing.

[–] points points | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]1KyfhoMyoba21 points22 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I kinda stopped.

Kinda.

Riiiiiiight.

[–]grass_cutter0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

She probably did. Well, possibly, who knows.

When you purposely leave a relationship in the 'gray zone' -- a girl if she really wants to be exclusive, might do that, if you haven't had the 'conversation.'

Anyway, all girls eventually want exclusive relationships to some degree. If you don't give them that, they will all eventually move on at some point. Which is fine, as long as you know what you're getting into.

[–]milkyboon8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I believe OP is really into his frame already and accepted she really is fucking other guys, thus it didn't really even bother him. :)

Total TRP, jabs OP

[–]abdada29 points30 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is a good form of putting the carrot on the stick: you told her you aren't afraid of exclusivity, you just have requirements before you take that route. It also gives you plenty of ammunition to use in 5-6 months if you're still spinning that plate, since (almost) no woman can act rational enough to be worthy of an exclusive agreement.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

It's simply using Briffaults Law to your advantage. Never give a woman something first and expect her to fulfill her end of the bargain.

[–]abdada2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Never give anyone something valuable without getting value for yourself.

Women just need a man to do this. With guys, you can negotiate or give credit terms.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

you just pushed it away for 5-6 month

[–]JackGetsIt0 points1 point  (12 children) | Copy Link

Better than losing her right there. He also has another opportunity to push it back again.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I've done it a few time and it always ends up in her crying, it's not really worth to do it that way

[–]FrameWalker[S] 13 points14 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Life isn't fair. If she doesn't meet standards for an LTR she doesn't get the LTR.

What's your preferred approach SheepKing? This aspect of spinning plates is one of the most difficult to handle. For the most part I assume that I'm just one of their plates from the get-go and more often than not I'm right.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I fucking agree that your techniques work if you want to keep a plate. But I'd rather not deal with making her sad for waiting false expectation. I straight forward say that I like her and that I have fun with her but that I don't want a relationship. Often she will says that you're an asshole and try to make you feel bad, just don't. They usually come back when they have accepted their faith. They might get a boyfriend from there. Usually they're not faithful to him anyways.

[–]FrameWalker[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Very interesting - how long do your plates usually last? I try to communicate implicitly as much as possible and let them bring it up explicitly.

[–]JackGetsIt12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So if you give her a LTR she won't cry? If you give her that commitment she will just set her mind on the next goal, moving in or engagement or whatever. When she doesn't get that she will cry. Tears are just weapons and OP very accurately accomplished his goal: keeping the plate spinning, without her crying.

[–]vicious_armbar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tears are just weapons

Exactly!

[–]adamryanx10 points11 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Better than losing her right there?

That mindset shows neither an abundance mentality nor outcome independence. OP doesn't think she's LTR material. There is no loss if she leaves.

[–]JackGetsIt9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn't say he's afraid of losing her. If OP would have just told her she's a worthless plate and doesn't ever plan on committing to her she would have walked away and he would have lost out on plate sex for 6 months. Or the opportunity to upgrade her to an LTR if he so chooses.

[–]MightyTaint2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

OP doesn't think she's LTR material. There is no loss if she leaves.

If she isn't LTR, that doesn't mean she isn't STR. Abundance mentality is great, but there is nothing wrong with being pragmatic and recognizing a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[–]mdadm10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is incredible. What really attracted me to red pill and before that, 'game' in general was how easy it was, once you learnt the tricks to manipulate people (not just women, anyone) into doing exactly what you wanted while having them think it was their idea originally.

Shit is fascinating. Once you learn the tricks, the sky becomes the limit. Look at all the universally successful people -- they are great at manipulating others, reading body language, planting ideas. Won't find many successful akward self-diagnosed autistic neckbeards.

I have advanced myself decades by recruting these tricks (in business).

[–]FrameWalker[S] 7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I agree, game and persuasion are valuable skills. They are best when they are matched by a strong inner core, and are more like rhetoric tools to emphasize points, and communicate on a deeper level. Find out what the customer really needs, or see that despite what she says she needs to be tied down and throat-fucked.

As /u/caveboy77 points out I didn't convince her of anything. It's not that I manipulated her, it's that I avoided being manipulated by her in that particular instance. I was truthful and honest about where I was at. She poked and I showed her the boundaries of my frame, and she made herself comfortable there for a while. I didn't promise to be exclusive, and she kept providing sex for a while.

[–]mdadm3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I avoided being manipulated

It could be argued that this in itself is a form of 'manipulation'. I subscribe to the idea that a lot of interaction between people is an attempt to grab power, conciously or subconciously.

[–]1runnerrun24 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think you're a bit confused? This wasn't a shit test, she seemed to genuinly probe this for where it was going. And at the end you say she was too uninterested, how did you get there?

I just think you misread her a bit. You were looking for a girl that would walk in line with everything you want - I'm seeing a girl like that atm but it's a bit boring tbh. To set a more interesting woman up for LTR you need to start showing her you think she's indeed special. The power to all of this is still completely in your camp, you're not showing weakness.

[–]FrameWalker[S] 9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Runnerrun2, that's a great response. For some girls I do want them to probe, as it sets up the possibility for developing into an LTR in the future. Also laying out clearer boundaries puts both parties at ease.

It's a shit test because she was trying to assert her frame on the relationship. If I accepted her frame, the relationship would have ended immediately. In my frame we kept seeing each other.

Let me explain. In her frame she assumed that I should be exclusive with her, and since I was sleeping with other girls this meant that I was cheating on her. Therefore she should end it because I was unfaithful.

With the pressure flip,"I am seeing other people, aren't you?" Her hamster has a really easy way to acquiesce and enter my frame. Since we hadn't discussed it, I had done nothing wrong. And now that we have discussed it, we've agreed to be non-exclusive for now. It's a healthy way of dating. It avoids oneitis in either party. Everyone wins.

[–]FrameWalker[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How did she get too uninterested? I failed too many shit-tests. There were usually a few condescending remarks here and there, and sometimes they registered a small sting. Over the short term I was fine with them, they would bounce right off, but after a while it just got harder. She had a habit of spitting them out during foreplay. She was incredibly tight so I had to get rock hard to penetrate. Sometimes it took me a while and she would shit-test me right in the middle. I A&A for a while on those, but at some point I just had to go the command respect route. "It's not that you're comments bother me, it's that you're disinterest in sex turns me off." was what I used. Not the best.

Maybe "Stop being insecure and get ready to be fucked" would've been better? Who knows. My best guess is that I got slated for BB at some point.

[–]1runnerrun22 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When it takes forever to get your dick in a woman's tiny pussy, god dammit how I hate that too!

But anyway, controlled doses of bonding/acknowledging behavior is what I think you should look into using here, not better game.

Of course it gets tricky because you risk going beta if you don't know what you are doing. That's why you need to do it from understanding. She wasn't being more beligerent because she was uninterested, it's more the opposite. She wanted you to acknowledge her more. That's why you might not be going anywhere by only focussing on gaming her better.

I always tell women I missed them.

Tell her something that you like about her, that adds to your life.

Killer is if through some situation you can put her ahead of another woman. This is stuff that can keep them happy for a long time and if it's you that's making her feel so good, well you must be quite something right?

inspeak: invent some kind of word or expression that the two of you share which has some meaning to only you two. Or some type of recognizable behavior. One of my things is that I like to slap women on their asses. Not just during sex but when she's cooking in the kitchen I'll go look and give her a love tap. Or when I'm fudging with some boxes and she walks by I'll give her a nudge on the ass with the box and so on.

Standards: hold her consistently to high standards (for looks, certain behavior etc), this one is ultimately the tool you need for LTRs so you don't have exhaust yourself in playing games endlessly to keep her interested.

So many options. Btw these are just things I observed that people do naturally, nothing too fancy. Remember, it might seem beta but they create good feelings from a way that you have left untapped if you only use strict TRP scarcity/aloofness/frame tactics and if you do so in a controlled fashion, many different types of good feelings will be coming from you and it'll raise you in her esteem.

I'd say, give it a try and see how women respond. You're going to have to do such things anyway if you want to keep the high quality women around.

[–]fhghg5 points6 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Period sex is gross, dude. Gross.

[–]SeekingTheWay6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

nope, perfectly fine for me.

[–]Endorsed ContributorrebuildingMyself1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Personally, I agree. It is fun getting into this debate with entitled bitches online though, who act all offended I don't want to have sticky, stinky, messy sex.

[–]FrameWalker[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

no disagreements from me. i'm a sick twisted man who will paint my condom red as I cum. always wear a rubber bros.

[–]tellhimhello1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Condoms don't stop HPV or Herpes.

[–]vallav1116 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

nothing does tbh, if you are sexually active you probably have them.

[–]k33p1tc00ler 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

When they like you they expect you to get your needs taken care of from them; your girl will be a bad bitch and soldier for you if she likes you, then it's up to you what to do with it.

[–]milkyboon0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can you elaborate more on this? Trying to learn as much as I can

[–]caveboy770 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

You didn't convince her of anything, you just put it off for a few months.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A few months is all you need. The plates keep on swapping.

[–]vicious_armbar0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not to be a contrarian but I think you fucked up. She calmed down because you gave a time limit for non-exclusivity. In 5 to 6 months she's going to demand that you become monogamous, and will start kicking up a huge shit storm if you refuse. In her mind you not only promised her a relationship 5 or 6 months from now; you promised her a monogamous relationship.

I always tell girls that the only way I'd consider being exclusive with a woman is if I decide to make her my girlfriend, and I'm not ready for that sort of commitment right now.

No matter what eventually a woman will start pushing hard for girlfriend status. At that point you have the upper hand regarding bargaining, and can demand non-monogamy as a condition of a formal relationship. Assuming of course that you want to keep her. Many woman will balk and threaten to walk away, almost all of them are bluffing. Call them on their bluff and 9 times out of 10 they'll come running back, to fuck you on your terms, with in 24 hours. Even if they aren't bluffing that means that they're not girlfriend material anyway. So you really don't have anything to lose.

[–]aHangingChad-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn't have included a specific time frame. Other than that, excellent work.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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