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RedDoctors, let's speak medicine

May 13, 2015

I'm a second year med student, plan to be one at least for four more years + fellowship (that's how it works here in EU).

The path of the doctor is, all around the world, the same old planned shit that ensures a secure – quite financially ensuring – path. That is if you stick to the study, work hard and be-socially-able-to-get-a-promotion workflow.

Even at the beginning of the book "The wolf of Wall Street" Jordan Belfort explains how he started his first day of university in Dentistry school, only to drop out during his very first class, after the professor said to the class that if they had joined that faculty just to chase the buck, they were out of luck.

And now, here I am.

I was raised in a shallow follow-your-dreams family, the best one you could ask for, and I'm still financially aided by them now that I live out of town.

Always dreamt big, I love the faculty I've chosen and couldn't be happier to go to class, but there's just something that's telling me "if you want to rake in billions you have to know how to work in a lab, and if you stick to what you are doing right now you're probably gonna make it as a surgeon, as you want, but not be that Richard Brenson guy you want so bad to be like".

Fellow med students, future-fellows MDs, how about starting a conversation about the future of our profession?

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Post Information
Title RedDoctors, let's speak medicine
Author Spiritualpha
Upvotes 2
Comments 15
Date May 13, 2015 10:53 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/reddoctors-lets-speak-medicine.32517
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/35tfsr/reddoctors_lets_speak_medicine/
Red Pill terms in post

[–]Code_Bordeauxx2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

It's always a balance of risk vs reward. I think the great thing about the medical field is there are high rewards with relatively low risks. You only need to invest a bit more time.

Of course, it won't make you a billionaire, but if you go down that path there's also a way, WAY bigger chance you won't make it and end up with less means than you'd have had as a doctor. You'd have to do do pretty well as an entrepreneur/investor to bypass the earning potential of a doctor and it will probably give you less work satisfaction.

[–]Spiritualpha[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I second the way you put it, though if there's one thing that comes into my mind it's from The Red Pill itself, and once again the book "The wolf of wall street" (I swear it's not the only book that I've read. But it's about the only book that I've read that deals about 99% of the time with money).

In that book JB (not the Biebz) explains how his employees were all making $500k/year or so during their first year at Stratton Oakmont, and doubling and tripling over the years. One thing that got them all to their knees all the time though, was the High Life they were living, actually making them broke by all the expenses they had to cover to maintain the aforementioned HLife.

I'm not a cheap fuck, nor do I live the high life. I allow myself to spend as much as I please on food and on the weekends I can enjoy good nights out with my buddy and pay for some chicks' drinks (never allowing not wetting the willy though! I'll allow them to steal from me a drink and a ride to my house).

All this combined with the RP principle that you must live to a minimum of luxuries (I myself don't have many here in my student's house) I think it can grant you a huge capital in the first years as an MD. If you can manage not to burn all the money you're raking in, you can save up a huge load of money for future investments.

[–]Code_Bordeauxx2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are distracted by dollar signs. That was once, you can't pull the stuff they did anymore. The book is a nice story of times past. Treat it as such and let it go. If you wish you can always invest the money you make as an MD.

[–]Timu21 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Med student here as well and pretty new to TRP, how do you guys manage time to focus on your mission (school ATM), lift, read, and still have the time meet/date girls?

Focusing on school takes up the vast majority of my time, even giving myself a hour and a half each night before sleeping for light exercise/reading seems unfeasible at times?

[–]draquish1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

For me it looks like this:

Goljan while I lift.

Down time to study.

Free time for hobbies, women included.

In a way, it is as if I don't “turn off.” Classmates watching netflix with dinner? Pathoma after the gym for me. Classmates wake up at 7 for hospitals? Alarm rings at 5am; Uworld for me. Break between classes? Time for a self quiz/review with a buddy. The weekends can be used for whatever, but only after I get my block of studying done. Usually coincides with the late night.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Same question, would love to hear

[–]draquish1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Halfway through third year here. MDs have a stable upper-middle class lifestyle in most places around the world. Once you're on the other side of residency you have options to tailor your practice as you see fit, depending on your monetary ambitions. I personally plan on doing locum tenens and seeing the world for a bit. We will have to see how Obamacare plays out.

[–]fjhlacrosse 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

What do you think about dentistry(specifically endodontist/orthodontist) as apposed to medicine? And is D.O school worth it to become a doctor?

[–]draquish0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Dentistry may make money, but it does so without the prestige of an M.D.. Dentistry students around these parts get respected as any general person would, but there is always an unspoken vibe whenever the distinction between our majors comes up.

I'm not in a position to speak about D.O. programs.

[–]jerdoc0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This post could take up pages but I'll try and keep it short and sweet. If you are smart enough to become a doctor, you are smart enough to make a lot more money doing something else. In the US, you can still make very good cash in some specialties but those opportunities are getting fewer and fewer. The whole point of Obamacare and ACO's is to pay providers (mainly doctors) less. More than half of all docs are now employed and that trend is rapidly increasing. The era of doc as small businessman is over and that's where the opportunity to make good money lies. In the next 20 years I think most docs will be making significantly less. Don't go into medicine thinking you are going to make the big bucks. You are going to make enough to live comfortably and give Uncle Sam half of everything you make.

[–]1oldredder0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Actually it's to pay insurance companies MORE. If doctors get paid less it's only a side-effect.

Red-pill economic-core truth: Obama-care was written by the insurance companies and rubberstamped.

[–]RPaccount10000 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

So many things wrong with OP's post and the comments. OP clearly doesn't give a fuck about medicine and is only doing it for money. There are many ways to make money that aren't as hard as becoming a doctor, much less a great doctor. Clearly, all OP cares about is making a shitload of money and living the high-life. Here's why this is not only wrong for medicine, but also not alpha:

  1. You idolize Richard Branson but not a top surgeon. Richard Branson may be filthy rich and may have created an empire of a business, but being a shrewd businessman doesn't require intellectual and technical excellence to the same degree as surgery does, especially the really difficult surgical specialties. It requires many other things, but the raw talent of surgeons is akin to the world's best athletes. This level of talent puts you at the very top of what humans are capable of, being a great businessman does not require that same level of raw human talent. Really being alpha means also being at the very top of what humans can do. Great surgeons beat businessmen in the measure of raw talent.

  2. Idolizing Branson, as opposed to, say, Elon Musk, demonstrates another non-alpha quality. Branson has built a corporate empire and has done a bunch of "cool" shit. Nothing really all that groundbreaking compared to what other businessmen have done. Musk is single-handedly FORCING an unprecedented change in a trillion dollar industry (worldwide), and on top of that, he's SIMULTANEOUSLY transforming spaceflight into a private endeavor. He is literally tackling two of the biggest challenges in the world and bending the world to his will. Another example, Bill Gates, bent the entire world to his will as well and completely revolutionized the world. Now, maybe these two are BB in their personal lives (Gates is for sure, don't know about Musk), but professionally, these two are alpha as fuck. Why? They are/were on a fucking mission, and not just any mission, but a mission to tackle some of the toughest shit in the world and succeeding at it. Branson, for all his work, doesn't reach that level of formidable mission. The fact that OP idolizes Branson instead of Musk, as well as the rest of his post, clearly indicates that he is NOT on a mission. He wants to enjoy life like Branson: make shitloads of money, probably fuck all kinds of pussy, do "cool" shit. Having a passion to tackle something exceedingly difficult is clearly not a priority, which goes against one of the most important principles of TRP: having a mission.

  3. OP isn't really interested in medicine, it's just a paycheck. There is no mission to become the best in his field or to produce groundbreaking research. There is also clearly no interest in helping people. Now I can't stand the profound Beta-Bitchery in medicine and science, but OP is on the far opposite side of the spectrum, which isn't good either. As mentioned before, no mission means you're missing a fundamental alpha quality. With respect to helping people, look, if you act like an asshole for a bit to get some pussy that's fine, but really not giving a fuck about doing the right thing doesn't make you alpha, it makes you a piece of shit (case in point: it would be pretty hypocritical for TRP to talk so much shit about feminism and then do the exact same thing but to put men on top. We don't, because we're interested in being right about the issue, and we should be interested in being right about everything).

So, my advice to OP (and anybody who thinks like him) is:

  1. Get a mission. It doesn't have to be medicine, but without a mission that is larger than yourself, so to speak, and that pushes to constantly improve and excel, you're not truly alpha (I don't care how big your muscles are). Don't go for Branson, go for Musk. Don't try to just have a successful business (MILLIONS of people in America alone have highly successful businesses, if millions have it in one country, it's not that special), have a passion and carve a path that bends the world to your will.

  2. If you get a mission but becoming elite in that mission is not your goal, then GTFO of medicine and science because you don't belong here. Doctors SHOULD make good money (scientists should also make far more than they do), but that should not be the only reason you want to be in medicine. You should deserve the elite position you will have by constantly striving to improve. If you don't want to devote your life to excellence simply for the sake of excellence, to pushing the boundaries of what humans are technically and intellectually capable of doing, then go to another profession. If being Richard Branson is what you want from life, then you're not really alpha (because your mission, if you even have one, is centered on owning more shit, fucking more pussy, and nothing really that extraordinary) and you definitely don't belong in medicine.

Another quick word of caution: if you continue with this attitude into medicine, fellow doctors like me will make your life hell and get you fired. There is nothing I hate more than a person with a mediocre/average (i.e. shitty) attitude, especially if I have to clean the mess he made. And believe me, it's the people like me who become indispensable in medicine and therefore end up having the power. Don't fuck up.

Edit: grammar

[–]Spiritualpha[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I logged back in just to check if new comments had popped up and I saw a shitload of them, mostly good.

I decided though to reply to yours only as it's the one that stroke me the most for how much effort you put into it.

I'll go through what you said. It's 3AM and I'm still studying, not a bit tired and could go on for some more, but I won't do that not to fuck up my schedule.

I spoke about Richard Branson because yes, indeed, I wanted to go for someone who does ""cool" shit". I might have picked Musk, hell, I know a whole lot more about Musk than I know about Branson, mainly because I think the man's a legend by now. I know about the three fundamental pillars he wanted to change for the better, and how he's doing it, because I searched it, back when I first got to know him; and from that day, to the day I first stepped into a Tesla, 'till now, I still think he's way better than Branson.

THOUGH Branson appeals to me as the one who does the coolest shit. Musk may as well been doing it as of right now by all that I know of the guy personally, but he doesn't advertise it much, am I right? So as I had to pick some random billionaire in a desert island of his own property, slaying pussy, sailing boats and smoking cigars, he was the first one I thought about. And excuse my superficiality if I did not go for someone who had a mission first. Because in that moment, the coolest guy in the class was the one I was looking for.

I could get very offended by how you just said I don't care about my path and I only do it for my paycheck, but what the hell should we both care, we're on Reddit. I spend my time on this sub to improve myself personally and socially, so if that has to deal with finances I see nothing wrong with discussing it here. Should I have prefaced my message with an ode to medicine? No problem. I'll tell you all about how much I fell in love with Cushing's precision, attachment to the subject, so profound he even drew his own surgeries and had his own private photographic library, one of the biggest around from that time, if not the biggest.

Or I could tell you all about how I fell in love with reconstructive surgery after reading of Gillies' plastic surgeries in Sidcup during WWI... Would that make my message more honorable?

I loved your presentation, really. The words were being chiseled on my front lobe as I was reading what you had typed, strong and clear to be stuck there forever. My mission is NOT "owning more shit, fucking more pussy". I do it for the same passion that drives you. My situation is that of a student who by now, can do nothing but dream, and living in a city where Ferraris stroll like they were mopeds, dreaming comes easily.

I understand though that dreaming is BY FAR not the only thing I can and have to do. I have to study and must improve myself for the better, so if my message wasn't clear enough, I am here to excuse myself profoundly and honestly. It was, once again, specifically pointed towards asking other physicians or students like myself, how they see their profession evolving in the future, where they see the money is tending to flow. In a completely naive way. I was just curious.

Not taking your message as a personal offense I am thrilled to know there are doctors so driven by pure dedication towards their profession... It only felt quite moving to be offended in such a long and articulated way, just from a message which was SPECIFICALLY ABOUT THE BUCK, implying that we all care about medicine since it's the path we've chosen.

Branson is lame, no problem with that. He just knows how to party and was the right guy at the moment. I promise I'll try my best not to need you in the future to clean up after messes I've made. Which of course, I won't let happen.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Come to the US and you have a higher chance of making $500k+ as a surgeon. I know attendings who live in mansions and have places all over the country and a stable of cars. They're living the high life. Getting to the point was tough, but it's doable.

[–]onepill_twopill-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Simple solution: become a GP and then start up clinics after you get a bit of money after med school. I won't go into too much detail, but small clinics that are run by good staff can rake in bucket loads. Own them if you want to be bill gates

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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