Remove the Man 2019

TlMPPA · 2019-01-09T02:26:13+00:00

who in their right mind would think that stoicism is harmful? Is this an episode of the twilight zone?

juddshanks · 2019-01-09T06:38:10+00:00

Even if you don't agree with its premise, the APA paper is worth a read.

The interesting thing is that by running through statistics like suicide, homicide and homicide victimization it does recognise one thing that a lot of people on here would probably agree with - that a large group of men aren't doing too well in modern society.

But what is absurd is the authors suggest that being stoic is shorthand for unhealthily repressing your emotions.

There's nothing wrong or unmanly about having an emotional response to stimuli, but strong men understand they dont need to be ruled by their emotions, and that it's usually possible to feel something and resolve that feeling internally without expressing it and without letting emotion get in the way of making a rational decision. That's not repressing emotion, it's about being smart enough to realise that emotions don't need to rule your decisions or govern how you behave.

It is pretty fucking obvious that there was a point in early human history, probably about the time where people figured out how to sharpen spears or bang rocks together, where the ability to keep your emotions in check and think rationally when exposed to stimulus became a positive, desirable evolutionary trait for a male hunter/protector/breadwinner. You're going to struggle to spear that sabre tooth tiger and come home in one piece if you're raging out or whimpering in fear and the same is true in pretty much any professional context in the 21st century

GayLubeOil · 2019-01-09T03:30:12+00:00

This paper is going to be used by the psychological medical education and legal establishment to fuck over men.

Here's how it's gonna play out in practice in 5 to 10 years. Hard working honest guy who's trying to make his marriage work goes to therapist with wife. Therapist uses said document to diagnose him as toxic masculine. Wife makes smug face because authority figure is supporting her hypergamy.

Psychologists findings get submitted to court and get weponized in divorce proceedings.

Remember when Title 9 changed the standard of evidence for College Rape tribunals from beyond a reasonable doubt to preponderance of evidence? These kind of documents have very large sweeping effects.

CainPrice · 2019-01-09T02:15:22+00:00

The main thrust of the subsequent research is that traditional masculinity—marked by stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression—is, on the whole, harmful. Men socialized in this way are less likely to engage in healthy behaviors.

Bullshit.

Men raised to be uncompetitive pussies who can't control their emotions will be unhappy from cradle to grave. These men will never have a good relationship with women--in fact, many won't get laid at all, and if they do it will be the true definition of "getting lucky." These men will have shitty careers because they can't compete or persevere when faced with adversity. And they'll suffer anxiety and depression constantly because they've been taught to fight against their true nature.

The irony is that the more this becomes the narrative, the more profitable it is to adhere to TRP. Every guy who applies even some of this philosophy has a huge advantage over the beta cucks society is so hell bent on raising. It's sad: as a man I rage at the injustice being done to our boys; at the same time, it's never been easier to game women if you know what you're doing. It's like offering steak to someone who's accustomed to living on a diet of celery.

dogenes09 · 2019-01-09T03:53:30+00:00

For just a moment I started to get angry. Then I started laughing as I realized: they can say whatever they want, but it’s irrelevant. You can’t change hundreds of thousands of years of biological evolution and natural selection with poorly conceived lies.
I’m not taking about the nature of man. I’m talking about the nature of women.

Men are aggressive and dominant and stoic because that’s what women select. And women select for it because that’s what works and has worked all the time, everywhere, in every form, regardless of the greater social mores, narratives and context. So good luck.

Witness me Nietzsche. Witness me Epictetus. Shit on these people Diogenes.

TruthSeekingPerson · 2019-01-09T02:36:38+00:00

Western civilization is going to cuck out and then get taken over by a more masculine culture. Absolutely no self-awareness or sense of history.

fizztea · 2019-01-09T05:38:16+00:00

this kind of shit is already being propagated in the already cucked software industry.The corp i interned at last summer,hr always told us to report any observance of "bro" culture,how women should be given opportunities over a more competent man as part of diversity and BS.How they are equal and whatever.

Fun fact is women knew all this and made sure to use their pussy pass every time.

Silicon valley should go back to the 70's-80's era where neckbeards and strongwilled men ruled.

WinjetRed · 2019-01-09T02:41:42+00:00

Seems like more of the boys are defective girls shit. Its fuckjng scary this is really starting to become main stream through in school and in science. What the fucknis wrong with a boy just being left alone to be a boy.

BobbyPeru · 2019-01-09T03:23:08+00:00

Unfortunately, this seems like a logical next step taken against men.

The politics against men in the last decade is unprecedented, and it seems to be escalating. The worst part is the white knights (our own sex) are doing most of the dirty work.

Radioactivebuny · 2019-01-09T06:29:21+00:00

Can’t rape women if you fucking kill yourself before you hit puberty, right?

Because that’s what this is gonna do. As if a bullet weren’t already appetizing enough for the average man. Can you imagine being a kid growing up in this shit? Jesus Christ, man.

The masculine spirit is hard as fuck to subjugate and control, hence their want to get rid of it.

Convince me the New World Order and a want to eradicate unsubjugated peoples and those who are very hard to subjugate isn’t a thing.

Because I can’t convince myself.

awalt_cupcake · 2019-01-09T04:20:01+00:00

This is spooky. Very spooky...

I will say though, I'm not surprised that they view these traits as not healthy behaviours. By their new definition, many many many successful dudes out there who are built on these core values are effectively mentally ill.

It's a different gender twisted demonization of success- but this existed in the past before. Probably just salty from being paid like shit for all these years and decided to demonize traits that makes others great (partly sarcasm). I'm truly worried for the children but as the other guy said- being TRP aware young adult....Yay! More for me in like 5-10 years as this all plays out!

But I'm genuinely curious if anyone else does it- Do you find yourself playing Dumb/Beta in socially brainwashed settings ala LAW #21- Play a sucker to catch a sucker-seem dumber than your mark?

(Not locations/situations Where Game is actively applied obviously)

5t3fan0 · 2019-01-09T04:12:24+00:00

I live in South America and fear that we don't have anything like TRP here. The trends in the USA, sooner of later, gets here and reading about this feels more like predicting the future. It's unavoidable, in one of two years the local media will be talking about this. Then bloggers, then social media, then activists.

TheImpossible1 · 2019-01-09T10:41:18+00:00

APA is led by a woman.

I'm willing to die on this hill. Women genuinely hate us.

You know how Hitler felt about Jews? That's how women feel about men.

They're willing to fuck up little kids to get back at us, when do we admit that they are awful people?

tempolaca · 2019-01-09T03:58:08+00:00

Remember: This is not the doing of women or feminism. They don't really have any power. This is the doing of stupid men.

ARUKET · 2019-01-09T07:28:45+00:00

In the UK we have this push to equalise mental health spending with physical health. The agenda is supposedly to normalise and de-pathologise mental illness. Really though its about control. Men are the biggest threat to the elites' control and if you can state that men are mentally ill just by being born you can lock them up without trial. Now obviously they won't do it en masse (not least because they can't afford to and people will start to notice and care) but like in the old soviet regimes political male prisoners who show male traits (i.e. the ability to resist) will be at least given toxic drugs and also frequently sectioned.

What can we do? 2019 has to be the year men wake up and start making every decision in mens best interest alone. So red pill at the least, ideally MGTOW, every spending decision that you can has to push those agendas and every time you vote or comment make sure it is in mens interest alone. If there is an anti male film or TV programme, do not watch it, in fact if a business shows signs of being anti male e.g. google stop using it and use something else if possible. The time for action in everything you do is right now.

TitusBjarni · 2019-01-09T03:52:18+00:00

I'd like to see how they define "healthy behaviors." That's what it comes down to. They must be using a feminine-correct definition of it.

WillyPete_Sauna · 2019-01-09T02:44:13+00:00

I just saw this and came here to discuss. Absolute Madness.

This is what the cultural marxism of the Frankfurt School gets us: a war on guys

edit - to anyone who wants an actual and dumbed down explanation: World War 2 scared the hell out of a group of leftist psychologists. To them, inside every man was a potential Nazi (which is of course ridiculous). In order to stop this from happening, psychologists like Erich Fromm and Theodore Adorno in the late 40's and 1950's encouraged boys to be socialized and taught like girls in the classroom and to have children sexualized at a young age. Ta-da welcome to the Frankfurt School.

tip of the iceberg. go read deeper for yourself.

Feelinggood702 · 2019-01-09T08:33:29+00:00

Devil’s advocate:

Two sentences after the excerpt you cut out, it was said that men who had more moderate ideas of masculinity rather than ones who held the strongest ones were more likely to get preventative health care. Maybe they were pointing out that trying to be too “hard” (tend to be done by younger men who don’t fully understand their capabilities) isn’t helpful long term since you’re choose to block off yourself from experience? I mean, isn’t that how we learn? By making mistakes and being open to experience? For example, a 19 year old who’s never had his heart broken in his life will most likely read some of the ideas TRP closely lives by. For example, “AWALT.” The kid reads it, and claims to himself, “Fuck women! They’re all bitches!” Without having experienced what it’s like to be around women.

Ultimately knowledge is dangerous if not harnessed and understood properly. Thus not really making it knowledge, more of an ideal projection since it has not been truly applied by that young man. That young man was me. Lol

5t3fan0 · 2019-01-09T10:50:09+00:00

for fuck sake America, you led the world in advancement and progress for so long; WTF happened? i truly hope you can pull your shit together and that these trends are not a prewiev of all western civilization in the future

mustard5 · 2019-01-09T14:18:43+00:00

The essence of their whole argument seems to be life would be so much better if men would be more like women. A thoroughly reasonable argument for a woman to make, yet so fundamentally flawed.

We thought life might be better if women where more like men, so we supported their feminist agenda. Sadly we were wrong. Women are not better off being more like men.

Let men be men and women be women. It is how nature made it. If nature finds it offensive, let nature change the situation.

TheDevilsAdvokaat · 2019-01-09T04:34:53+00:00

Traditional masculinity built the world.

It hunted, it repaired, it learnt, it explored....you could go on forever.

This is the end stage of diseased feminism- they're now declaring "traditional masculinity" to be toxic.

Without traditional masculinity, there would be no civilisation. If our world had instead just had femininity, we would instead be living in mud hats, dancing around them holding hands while looking up at the moon and chanting how powerful we are, then cowering inside them when tigers came near.

Women have polluted modern science, psychology and sociology.

It's time to reject feminism AND a society that sees masculinity as not "different from us" but as "wrong".

NextBad · 2019-01-09T15:25:24+00:00

Science is no longer science, anything coming from universities is hate , I will never send my kid to therapy

Pascolino · 2019-01-09T13:54:27+00:00

As a left leaning RP guy. Holy fuck what? This can't be the world view of mind scientists what the fuck?? I'm going to read that article. These guys know about evolutive biology this can't be the whole academia's view. Literally what drives men to perform and build things and endure and move forward. And women love men like that. Again wtf.

ZoroasterFlame · 2019-01-09T07:22:58+00:00

They can win if we don't fight them.

omega_dawg93 · 2019-01-09T13:07:00+00:00

all i will say is this...

this is war. and they're fighting for real. they want men to lay down... better yet, bend over, and take it deep with no Vaseline.

but wait... to stop this nonsense, all you need is a literal war where aggression, dominance, assertiveness, etc are REQUIRED to protect your neck! who's gonna fight... women & beta boys?

this isn't Sweden. fuck these people... and 4 more schools of thought that look like them.

i don't personally know any women who believe this shit. who are the female types that are pushing this besides hardcore feminists?

AllahHatesFags · 2019-01-09T14:58:40+00:00

Now I expect these quacks to start recommending a soy-based diet and prescribing estrogen to men to treat their "toxic masculinity disorder". How many young boys will be feminized in this fashion because their (single) mothers took them to see a shrink for acting like boys? This country is so fucked.

SoulRedemption · 2019-01-12T00:37:48+00:00

This has such a large under-current effect than one may realize. It is one thing for the average public to have this opinion but a whole nother level for a Psychology Institute to publish these. There is a basis now that can be used against men ("science") because of "findings" and eventually law will use these too as strong foundations.

This is just the beginning. "Think as you like but behave like others" is more important than ever. Be careful not to spout and stand your ground in ways that can backfire. Handmaid's Tale is looking to be more of a Handman's Tale.

CainPrice · 2019-01-09T14:58:27+00:00

I don't buy into the idea that evil society is intentionally trying to destroy masculinity in some kind of female empowerment movement. It's bad, but it's not malicious or sinister.

These people genuinely believe what they preach. Not only do they think that masculinity is truly harmful and turns us all into unhappy hyperaggressive suicidal rapists. They are completely certain that masculinity doesn't exist.

They genuinely believe, in 100% of cases, that any man acting masculine was taught to do so by the remnants of an evil patriarchal society. They genuinely believe that no man is really like that and that any man acting masculine is just putting on a pretend front out of fear that other men (who are also just pretending at masculinity) will harm him or make fun of him.

They literally, in the bottom of their hearts, believe that masculinity doesn't exist and is just boys playing pretend and trying to achieve an outdated notion of manhood, and that they must save these boys, and all men, from masculinity that they must have picked up from harmful external sources of ideas. They really believe that they are trying to save men from harmful and damaging ideas and ways of life.

Because for many men, masculinity is hard. They're raised being told it's not necessary to be masculine, but then nobody wants to date them, fuck them, hire them, promote them, or be their friend. They fail at life specifically due to their lack of masculinity. And they get depressed and kill themselves, and modern psychiatry declares that the real reason they were unhappy wasn't the fact that their life sucked and was a failure. They were clearly unhappy because they were told that they didn't meet the outdated standards of conventional masculinity and became suicidal, and if only we could do away with masculinity, men would be happy.

TFWnoLTR · 2019-01-09T15:47:47+00:00

I've been to three different therapists in my lifetime and every single one advised I learn to be more stoic and self reliant because it works.

These guidelines are a serious step backward in the practice and study of psycology. Any professional in the field should recognize it as such.

TheStumblingWolf · 2019-01-09T15:57:06+00:00

These are the mechanisms built into men to compete for their community's well-being and for the attention of women. Men are truly under covert attack. Little by little we're chipped away at.

2019-01-09T16:48:02+00:00

It's hard to believe this is even real, that this is the world we're living in now. We're hurtling toward Orwell's 1984, if indeed, we aren't already there.

Incidentally, the original title for 1984 was The Last Man in Europe, which is very fitting given recent events.

pickyourselfupman · 2019-01-09T19:29:31+00:00

Does this mean that anyone currently seeing or looking for a mental health pro. should vet their provider on pro. advice inline with this thinking? How would one do that or do you think it would be obvious to spot and know if you’re provider believed this garbage?

2019-01-09T21:30:56+00:00

This is fucking bonkers.

Check that, this is fucking horrifying.

thewrecker8 · 2019-01-10T12:11:00+00:00

They just described basically every sport. Competition, aggression, dominance. How do you play basically any sport without those qualities?

MentORPHEUS · 2019-01-10T17:08:07+00:00

I have some background in psychology, so I approached this from an "addressing negative outcomes" perspective, rather than a "Men R bad K" perspective. Through this lens, many aspects of this are actually quite congruent with our own teachings and POV. Rollo's take on this hinges upon the phrase "toxic masculinity" being understood as radical feminists define it, not how psychologists define it.

This is an important advance in addressing certain blue pill and otherwise distorted caricatures of masculinity. I see it as an opportunity, not a danger.

Stoicism- ~~Turn men into needy whiny controllable pussies~~ Don't soldier through your heart attack symptoms or live mired in PTSD or depression for years instead of reaching out for help
Competitiveness- ~~Turn men into will-less soy boys~~ AMOGging and Peacocking is doing it wrong, learn productive leadership skills, unlearn ineffective ones
Dominance- ~~Turn men into spineless followers~~ Know when to lead and when to follow. Art of war, rules of power
Aggression- ~~Turn men into weak pussies~~ Become a Captain others are willing to follow

Food for thought.

dingleburry_joe · 2019-01-09T10:46:03+00:00

Keep on riding the tiger friends.

PS2Errol · 2019-01-09T16:25:17+00:00

This is insanity. To say this Association is dangerous is an understatement.

Without the traits they describe no Empire or civilisation would even exist. The United States of America would not exist. Without these traits, Russia would not have defeated Nazism. I could go on and on.

This Association of fools is talking utter nonsense.

daffy_duck233 · 2019-01-09T16:34:39+00:00

The writer was using a very narrow, yet popular, definition of stoicism and that is "not expressing your emotions outwardly".

If you guys take a look at the APA guidelines itself: https://www.apa.org/about/policy/boys-men-practice-guidelines.pdf,

the only two places that you can find the key word "stoic", are as follow:

Psychologists can discuss with
boys and men the messages they have
received about withholding affection from other males to help them understand how components of traditional masculinity
such as emotional stoicism, homophobia,
not showing vulnerability, self-reliance,
and competitiveness might deter them
from forming close relationships with
male peers (Brooks, 1998; Smiler, 2016).

and,

Psychologists also strive to
reduce mental health stigma for men by
acknowledging and challenging socialized
messages related to men’s mental health
stigma (e.g., male stoicism, self-reliance).

They don't even bother to define "emotional stoicism" or "male stoicism", but rather count on readers to assume a common dictionary-based meaning of the word. However, they didn't denounce stoicism wholesale as the writer of the article did. I don't blame the writer though, after all she's a woman and most probably has no idea what Stoicism is.

What the article did right, however, was to summarize the main ideas of the guidelines, as most other commenters have posted here.

TRM has a very interesting (and valid) point on the corruption of language, and then inevitably the corruption of thought, by feminists, which strongly applies in this discussion of the APA guidelines.

redpill_scientist92 · 2019-01-09T16:50:19+00:00

I linked the pluralist article about this apa study on my Facebook and had this dude arguing with me, instead of trying to make a logical argument back I just linked him the rollo blog piece about this. You have a way with words.

Well see how this goes over, I’m going to lift while I wait for the shit storm.

Edit: shit storm ensued, now I got people calling me a “red pill psycho” and saying that Rollos an incel.

pickyourselfupman · 2019-01-09T19:09:50+00:00

“APA issues first-ever guidelines for practice with men and boys-By STEPHANIE PAPPAS”

Hmmmm...

AnyDoughnut · 2019-01-10T04:03:29+00:00

Probably another 50 years away from having all but the most physically fit and financially secure men culled.

DailyManliness · 2019-01-12T16:32:12+00:00

Forget slut shaming, the real thing we need to worry about is man shaming. Dudes are going to be shamed out of acting how they naturally are

AllahHatesFags · 2019-01-10T02:06:13+00:00

Originally Posted response from MRP

Yeah I saw this one coming out a few days ago as well. I think, while there is some application toward RP principles at play here, you may be missing the larger political issue in all of this, respectfully, of course.

Ultimately, humanity is rapidly approaching the zenith of overpopulation. This is primarily what is causing the exodus out of Africa and areas of the Middle East which are not woretorn by the proxy battles between the US and Communist nations.

Essentially, the narrative states that we're taking on refugees, en masse, to Europe because if we just take this current round of refugees exodusing Africa and the Middle East the problem will be solved. Whether or not we are AT the zenith is fairly dismissable, however for those living in impoverished areas actually facing the possibility of starvation I would assume this is a fairly accurate capture of their perception.

Women, in their earnest nature to "nurture these poor refugees", while battling against the "patriarchal" (sic) nature of (white) men to turn the barbarians away at the gate, has created a conflict of interest in how to address the issue (and the same approach is being pushed here in the US with overpopulation nearing terminal velocity in Latin America). This diagnosis of toxic masculinity is merely a post-hoc explanation derived to assuage women of the guilt intrinsic to humanity being forced to make a decision on this matter.

If you look at the trends of population growth by continent, you can see that the native population of Europe and "most" of North America (everyone except Mexico are at zero growth, or even at negative growth due to education, contraception etc.) are relatively stagnant, and even shrinking in many aspects due to education, contraception and the rise of feminine empowerment that tricks them into not having children until its too late.

Now, I'll probably get slammed for insisting that this is a multi-facetted issue that doesn't fall strictly along MRP concepts, IN conjunction with the fact that we are harboring men who refuse to let go of the childish fantasy "everything's going to be alright if we just ignore the problem, racist Throndor", however I think clarity is more important in this particular issue. AND there is some correlation to MRP and "seeing reality as it is, not how we want it to be".

In sum, the western world is rapidly approaching a very difficult decision. We will either have to force birth control on the third world to battle overpopulation and mass migration, let mass migration destroy us and then continue on to humanity's greater destruction in aftermath of the defeat of "Reason", or enact genocidal policies throughout the world to curb population growth.

I'm thinking option 1 is the most humane option, option 2 doesn't really address the issue and still only buys 25 years tops if you consider the Malthusian mathematics of a 2.5% growth rate in Africa on a population of 1.5billion people in conjunction with the best care scenario of an absolute extermination of the western world's population, and option 3 is pretty grisly. Let's not forget that Asia is bolstering a 1.1% growth rate with a population of 4.5billion people.

If you know anything about Logarithmic math, we're looking at Africa doubling in population in 27 years (+1.5Billion), and Asia doubling in population in 63 years (4.5billion), and South America doubling in population in 57 years (500,000).

Hope this insight helps.

Regards,

2019-01-14T13:29:39+00:00

You know why men don't just let their emotions run wild like women? It is because the world does not care about men! See, when a woman is emotional the world will all but stop to check on her and make sure she is ok. As men, we dont get that... not even from women. A woman cry's and both men and women will run to comfort her, when a man cries nobody comes running to our sides like that. Instead, we cry when nobody is looking and then focus on being solution oriented. Besides, women always say they want an emotional man but when they see one they are turned off by it. Its better this way anyways.... one of the sex's has to be rational and level headed else we would all go extinct.

Bilskee1 · 2019-01-14T15:15:31+00:00

So another shit test. Nothing new or surprising. What's the big deal ?

DancesWithPugs · 2019-01-16T07:46:04+00:00

Institutional gaslighting "it's crazy to be a man"

Yeah this is what equality looks like. I'm so glad feminism eradicated prejudice. /s

PS2Errol · 2019-01-16T21:52:54+00:00

Paul Joseph Watson on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FILwhaFezec

conk2000 · 2019-01-09T03:20:57+00:00

I would love to hear Jack Donovan's take on this. He is the leading RP guy I enjoy reading, and almost all his content is on Masculinity and its benefits.

midgetpooooo · 2019-01-09T05:48:23+00:00

I mean, you're all thinking about this from a red pill lens where all this stuff doesn't really apply to you or your experiences, but what the article is getting into are the really fucked up and angry men who creep on girls, rape, commit crimes, etc. So they are the perfect group for this sort of positive masculinity and away from the actual toxic masculinity that pervades their lives (think extremes like incel or super aggressive).

Erfbender · 2019-01-09T15:04:52+00:00

To be fair, while I was pissed off when I read it, amused mastery is neither competitive nor aggressive. I think there are downsides to forcing boys to behave stoically before they even know what their emotions are, just as there are downsides to locking energetic boys to a chair for 8 hours a day

sh0t · 2019-01-13T06:24:19+00:00

I am just curious why you all care so much?

How many have experienced high quality women being thankful and appreciative for positive masculinity? It's deep in our DNA. It won't change.

When it comes to business, business is business. Good, skilled, masculine men do well. This banter changes nothing for the individual outside experiencing a degredation of society and reducing the growing amount of competition among masculine men.

CensorThis111 · 2019-01-09T15:39:43+00:00

Sorry TRP. Obliterate this with downvotes all you want, but it's true:

stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression—is, on the whole, harmful. Men socialized in this way are less likely to engage in healthy behaviors.

There are definitely ways to channel various harmful things into something positive. The pursuit of self development remains the same. That being said - all humans are social creatures. What is true about this quote is true of all humanity.

Whether it's in conflict of TRP dogma or not doesn't matter.

Tuplad · 2019-01-09T08:38:10+00:00

I quickly glanced through the article, they bring up some valid points. They advocate that men should seek more help when needed and that men with "toxic" traits wont be looking for medical or mental help, because they should be self-sufficient. The article raises genuine issues with males not seeking help when they are mentally or physically ill.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, there are some REALLY valid points that a lot of men should take care of. You shouldn't be an alpha bro, that's what TRP advocates.

Title	Remove the Man 2019
Author	Rollo-Tomassi
Upvotes	463
Comments	264
Date	January 9, 2019 1:56 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/ae1u7b/remove_the_man_2019/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/remove-the-man-2019.163774 https://theredarchive.com/post/163774