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Stoic Meditations And The Internalization Of A Masculine Frame

March 24, 2019


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Post Information
Title Stoic Meditations And The Internalization Of A Masculine Frame
Author AutoModerator
Upvotes 499
Comments 39
Date March 24, 2019 4:35 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/stoic-meditations-and-the-internalization-of-a.786792
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/b4shz9/stoic_meditations_and_the_internalization_of_a/
Red Pill terms in post

[–]INNASKILLZ2K18 59 points60 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

My fucking god! This is the best post I've ever read on here.

This is like, Red Pill on crack. Just cut down to the essentials, awesomely explained, and put in a process you can shoot right into the vein.

Your included links round this out to required reading, in my opinion.

The idea of not trying to control or react to anything outside of us is huge. I think too many guys are still stuck at trying to control shit outside of them. 'How do I get her to go out with me?' 'How do I avoid rejection?', etc. 'How do I pull her into my frame', type stuff.

This (with the links) shows that one's power should only ever be focused within oneself. The ability to hold YOU, regardless of outside things.

You've given a great explanation of why mindfulness meditation helps the process. The internalization.

Don't give your power away.

This is sidebar worthy.

[–]ThePounder 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You are right. /u/Inf0rmme you’ve written one of the best RP posts I’ve ever seen here in the many years I’ve been here. Fantastic work!

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Great read, I’m relatively new and I’m trying to wrap my head around the theory of TRP and coupled with your links this is the most I’ve understood how to internalise the ideas.

In regards to frame, the other day I was on a coach and a girl was sat in front, from boarding I had noticed she was fairly cute. I attempted to get her number, on the basis that I could try and I wasn’t actually fussed if I did get the number or not, I was focused on the attempt. Is that maintaining frame?

[–]inf0rmme 24 points25 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you saw a cute girl you wanted to ask out and then took action on this not allowing your approach anxiety (something in your controll) to prevent you from taking action. Then you were operating in your frame.

If you were to overhear a girl saying that she really loves Rose's. Then go off and buy a rose because you think she wants a rose. You'd be serving her reality not yours and hence operating in her frame.

[–]TruthSeekingPerson 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It seems a lot of this depends on your motivations. If you are buying someone a rose because you desire and want to manipulate them then you're outside your frame. You're being weak.

If you don't know a person it's probably weird and unacceptable to buy them a rose. That said, in The Last Crusade Indiana Jones stole a flower to give Elsa right after he met her. In that situation he is in frame. But he couldn't do that if she had made a comment about how pretty the flowers are because then he's just serving her. Really it sounds like staying in frame is doing things you want to do instead of serving someone else.

[–]triavatar 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Focus on yourself more than others.

It is hard.

But such is the path of man.

[–]Fulp_Piction 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Frame is the context of the conversation. Someone being 'in your frame' means that they accept your interpretation of things, agree with you and stop thinking about it themselves. On here it's said that women want to surrender to a strong frame - ie they dont want to figure out all the stressful shit themselves, they trust you so they just go with what you do.

A test of frame, tell a stupid joke that makes no sense, whoever laughs is completely 'in your frame'. They were always going to laugh regardless of the punchline because you told it.

Check out the mystery method for more info.

Edit: Holding frame - maintaining your interpretation of events, though you have to have a reasonable opinion to hold otherwise your just a bit of a twat.

[–]Endorsed ContributorAuvergnat 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really. Originally, frame was borrowed from NLP and brought into Game by PUA. Probably by Ross Jeffries. Frame roughly meant the "context of an interaction" and you were meant to "(1) be aware of it and (2) control it but (3) resist giving the impression you are". So if you're talking with a girl and she makes a comment about how you're a great guy for always being there for your friends, you'd need to (1) be aware this innocuous comment could be interpreted as either you being a doormat in need of recognition, or being a benevolent alpha. You'd need to be aware of which is the perspective that is more beneficial to you and (2) ensure the conversation continues with that perspective. But you should not force it on the conversation of course so (3) you don't blurt suddenly "duh, I'm only friendly because I want to!" but subtly assure that perspective, ideally non-verbally so that it's really covert. Frame is the untold backstory in the interaction. Powerful machiavellian stuff.

If you find this confusing, it's normal. It's not straightforward, and as a result the concept of Frame got slowly misunderstood and redefined on this sub. At some point it meant something like "composure" (in the context of staying stoic when shit-tested) so people started saying "keeping frame" as a way to say "keeping your composure". Now it's some mix between this and "self-esteem", which is the definition you can understand someone is using when people say "building frame". So now "Frame" is something to "develop" by "focusing on yourself" or taking cold showers for example.

And that's how you get from a vital concept of power dynamics in human interactions with fellow masterful manipulators, to something you can proudly think you own without having to talk to anybody.

[–]jonpe87 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Frame is a narrative/perspective from wich you see/describe reality. To have a strong frame is to have deeply rooted view points/ beliefs of reality from wich you guide your behaviour and your emotional state. So a part of having a strong frame is to have a lot of life experiences, that will expand your mind and your understanding of reality.

[–]bulletproof0616 20 points21 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

David Goggins. His speeches and his book all about standing boldly in the face of adversity and always choosing the hardest path possible to callous your mind (build an unbreakable frame)

[–]tb0n 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have been practicing stoicism for about six months now and it has had a profound impact on frame. Before stoicism, trying to demonstrate a strong frame was an exercise of trying to remind myself to "be alpha" or that "I am enough" whenever I felt anxiety come up in conversations with women and other people.

Stoicism teaches you that your negative emotional reactions are un-constructive; that you should be indifferent to the opinions of others; and that you are supposed to have compassion for others, as they too are humans struggling.

The end result of that in a social conservation is that if someone challenges something you say, you shrug your shoulders; you don't need to defend yourself and you don't have an incentive to lash out at the other person. In fact, one major tenet of stoicism is to respond to insults with humor such as "you're right, and you don't know the half of it." If you think about it, that is just another way of saying "agree and amplify."

Frame is just one tiny way that stoicism has helped me though. The whole philosophy is wonderful and has applications to every part of my day. It has made me much happier and more satisfied with my life, while also helping to increase my SMV.

[–]Hyperf0cus 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is absolutely on point. You've put the way I've been thinking and acting lately, into words. I am feeling relieved and confirmed for the frame I've build up during the last weeks.

It is so wonderful to see and feel how this works. As of today I am more happy than ever depite having a hard time through deep depression with suicide thoughts not long ago.

Having a strong focus while lifting and executing your exercises helps so dramatically - you do not owe other people your attention. You are the center of origin and should act accordingly.

I've internalized the center of origin aspect into my daily life this year and I am feeling more alive than ever.

[–][deleted]  (11 children) | Copy Link

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[–]randomTATRP 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's because it wakes me the fuck up and it cools my head literally. I'm way more calm when I take a cold shower. The saying about doing stuff coldheaded isn't a nonsense.

It's like telling people to learn how to live on a budget by throwing some money away every morning when they wake up.

You see, rich people didn't become rich by getting a lot of money. They got rich by not spending their money lavishly or on stupid things. If I were to spend all of my weekly money, I'd have never have some money to go out. So I must save a bit of money every week and then I can go out like a normal human being once in a few weeks.

[–]MrGreySD 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For me personally, not only does it get the blood flowing, wake me up and make me feel more alert, but it makes me hurry the fuck up and not procrastinate in there. 2 minutes and out. Done.

So that's productivity immediately upon waking. Plus there are definitely general mental benefits for me. You feel buzzed and you feel like you've already accomplished something.

Regarding your examples: throwing money away is idiotic and a disadvantage to yourself. I don't see what the negative to cold showers is other than mild discomfort for 2 minutes?

[–]Hyperf0cus 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It is just one way of many others to reach the state of having a strong frame. I don't cold shower, but I lift like a stoic robot with perfect execution through strong focus and moving mindfully/meditatively. This helps me in other areas of life.

Each human being has to find his own way of building a strong frame through incorporating various "tools" into his daily life.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Hyperf0cus 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand the point you are making. Think of the cold showers as one of many ways to tighten and preserve the elasticity of your skin.

Cold showers also increase the amount of leukocytes in your bloodstream, so you are less prone to catch diseases.

So if you take the above mentioned (out of many other reasons) into account, you are complementing your overall fitness, on top of staying fit through physical exercise.

Edit: As a sidenote - currently "fighting against gravity" on the stairmaster at my local gym right now. I love this machine. Let's see if my ass is ready for a cold shower afterwards lol.

[–]INNASKILLZ2K18 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's better read as a metaphor. Putting oneself into situations many would shy from, in an attempt to hold yourself and be unreactive.

[–]inf0rmme -2 points-1 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

"Making every morning worse than it should be"

My morning are no worse that they once were when I showered warm. After time you adjust and it becomes the norm. Its no longer painful as you've become indefrent. Which is the point I am making.

It's relative to what you have adjusted to. If you were to shower cold for a year and were then to take a warm showing it would feel Amazing. But after a while you'll just adjust and your mornings will be no better off.

[–]isthisalreadyused 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

From what I've read, there are more benefits to a cold shower than just the hardening of your will, but he has a point too.

What about slapping yourself in the face a few times? If you have a roommate, what about getting him to waterboard you every morning? Where is the line, and why is it there?

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]inf0rmme -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The difference is your aiming for short turn gains. The warm showing feels good in that moment.

But like anything instantly gratifying it won't add any true value to the quality of your life.(my subjective opoion). So hypetheticly if someone were compleatly indferent to pain or pleasure, in any scenario they'd choose the best long term outcome and the pain or pleasure wouldn't even factor into their decision making.

Just the daliy reminder to be more aware of how I am reacting to negitive external factors holds long turm value for my own self development.

However meditation doesn't seem to be for everyone. The science on it reports some participants having a positive experience and a neutral or even negative for other. But its all selfreported survey shit, that I consider a soft science at best. Whatever works for you man.

[–]Ryu-Hayabusa 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well said sir this help dearly!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

APA-Accredited universities are churning out toxic feminists from undergrad and grad psychology programs. These shills then go out and create this "toxic masculinity" diorama by pretty much being unbearable and intolerant.

[–]centaursg 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great post. I have chosen ,many a times , to look at things from stoic perspective but often I get emotional , lose frame , become a victim to the instant gratification..this post definitely helps to be mindful about my emotions and my actions

[–]chrisname 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you misunderstood the article. For example, they aren’t using stoicism in the classical sense to refer to the school of philosophy, but in the common sense of not displaying any emotion at all. They even say stoicism is good when it is used to face down a difficult situation, but bad when it causes the person to deny having any feelings at all. I don’t really see how you can disagree that that is harmful. Men on this sub will say “talk about your feelings with other men, not women” and advise you not to suppress your feelings. The APA is obviously not going to advise men to keep their feelings from women (which we should) but that doesn’t mean they’re saying stoicism and masculinity are wrong.

I honestly didn’t find anything particularly bad in this article (which was surprising). They don’t say aggression (in the sense of pursuing one’s objectives even when competing with the objectives of others) is bad, they say violence is bad. Idk how you can disagree with that, either, except to say that violence is good when it prevents more violence (or when it’s consensual between all affected parties).

[–]Heremhd 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well said I wasn’t sure what frame was but you have helped me I believe frame is just serving your own purposes the way you want to. To stay in frame is to be able to control how you react .

[–]newacc4newlife 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for this one, good read

I believe your description should be enough for a person new to the concept or looking for a more detailed explanation of frame to start contemplating the ways to build it on their own. For if this one doesn't spark the desire to live in their own way, doing what they want then no guide will help

[–]Managicall 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression.

The only problem with those books is the soft retranslated global language lacking the full power of a native English tongue.

stoicism: deadened sensation

competitiveness: rage quitting

dominance: friendly fire

aggressiveness: all or nothing

[–]NormalAndy 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great post. Thanks.

Funny- looking back, I don't think that I was ever angry about hypergamy. I was angry that I had allowed myself to be duped by the lie that it didn't exist.

It would be nice if there was an easy way but these days I welcome the fact that there isn't. All meningful growth is painful Sisyphus is happy.

[–]Blenor 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Serious question, how aren't you sick all the time when you're taking cold showers everyday?

[–]Son0fMan 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Adding a note on meditation here from a zen buddhist perspective...

Mindfulness based meditation is all about awareness, I agree. However, the ironic, and some would even suggest mystical, thing about it is change occurs only when you are bringing a nonjudgemental awareness to your thought patterns and feelings. You will find that judging yourself for 'beta thoughts' or even attempting to 'think alpha' is counterproductive. Once you get particularly adept at achieving a truly meditative state you'll find that your mind wanders to all sorts of things and you're kind of just along for the ride, however these thoughts will have a marginally reduced effect on you.

On an almost completely separate note, through meditation and mindfulness I am developing a philosophy about the self and free will. A quick rundown would be that your subconscious aka your instinct is actually in control, making decisions on the fly. Your limbic system aka your emotions are actually the commentator. They work in conjuction with the observer aka your conscious mind.

Example: I need energy so my subconscious is directed towards getting food and makes my stomach growl. My limbic system makes me start feeling very faint anxious/excitement about the concept of getting food while amost simultaneously I am consciously thinking," Man I'd like some tacos right now."

[–]adeptintact -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had recently started meditating, but an unintended consequence is your third eye will open. When it does, you may start hearing and seeing things in the 4th dimension that can be interpreted as ghosts. From a Christian perspective, this can make you more susceptible to demons attacking you. This is why Christianity forbids this type of meditation where you clear and focus your mind. I believe meditation does help, but this consequence is something to consider. I've stopped meditating as a result.

[–]yottaminx -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am glad you retards got banned. Get a life! get out of your parent's basement

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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