The importance of male mentors in career advancement

March 10, 2018
104 upvotes

This post is for all of the younger or college age guys on here who might be interested in a career in academia or medicine. I can really only speak to this particular field, but it needs to be said.

For some twisted reason, there has been a false narrative circulated in STEM fields about women in those fields. There is this whole emphasis on equality and that "women can do science the same as men". And while I don't disagree, I've seen many female scientists and doctors that are truly as good as men are, if you are a man, DO NOT seek out primary mentorship from them. People are going to say this is sexist and it is not. I recognize that women can do science just as well, they have good ideas too just the same, but they can't teach you the skills you need to know to be successful as a man in science and medicine.

Let's just accept for a moment that women and men are different and that women in the science world are in the minority. Let's just eject from this conversations about anything to do with inequality or sexism or anything SJW. Let's just look at the facts. The fact of the matter is that men in science and medicine wear different clothes, their voices sound different, most people in charge are men, and men being men act differently than women. If you are trying to advance, the skills that women know for doing that and their experiences are not the ones that are going to help a man advance in those same fields. I know this firsthand. When I was in high school and in early college I primarily had female career mentors, and this was not super helpful in getting me to where I am now. As a man, you're not supposed to act the way female scientists do, learning to deal with women in science doesn't help you climb the ladder as they are often not the ones in charge, and honestly many of them aren't high up enough to help you anyway. I had plenty of female mentors and only one of them was marginally helpful in getting me anything (she was very high up in a medical school and got me an interview there, that was it).

You know what was helpful though? My single male mentor who actually did teach me how to act, what to say and how to say it, how to talk to other men in the field, and he was high enough up to open a lot of doors for me. The one helpful female mentor I had frankly was only helpful at times because she understands the 48 laws of power and knows how to climb the ladder but nothing she learned was going to help me because she is a woman and I am not. And you know what? All of the ambitious men I've ever met in my field have primarily male mentors. Seems like a coincidence, but it's not. Also just remember that many women want to mentor women and not men frankly, for feminist reasons or otherwise, on a subconscious level they may not be willing to support you wholeheartedly.

So to all you men out there, recognize that your female superiors in these fields are worth working with, but make sure you don't stake your career and all of your early learning on them. It will not go well for you. Make sure you learn in work the same as in sex from men. Do not fall for the PC SJW crap. That narrative tries to tell you it should not matter. It does though. And if you're smart, do what's good for your career and don't sacrifice yourself on the altar of feminism.

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Post Information
Title The importance of male mentors in career advancement
Author EscapeTheGoat
Upvotes 104
Comments 22
Date March 10, 2018 1:46 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/the-importance-of-male-mentors-in-career.49137
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/83c22l/the_importance_of_male_mentors_in_career/
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Comments

[–]Throwtheknightaway25 points26 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This is absolutely true in academia. People will want to help people that look and act like them. Unfortunately, that means the predominantly female-occupied field of teaching is more advantageous for women. Medical school is full of women nowadays, which is very bad for future male doctors.

[–]EscapeTheGoat[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women can teach you information. I can't say that my female professors did a bad job teaching biology. They did a great job.

But academia and being a doctor are about so much more than facts. It's a political game the same as any other field. And you need male guidance.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A woman can't invest her full energy and time into a man she considers to be below her own level. This is why you will never get much out of her mentorship.

In a sense you become her orbiter, as the attention she gives you really only serves to flatter her own ego and fulfill her emotional needs.

There may be genuinely intelligent and capable women out there, no doubt. But they are not exempt from the rules of their biology.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

A mentor is key. I'm 6 months into my first ever job which is in a stem field, getting paid to train and learn aswell as work. This really was who you know over what you know. My neighbour is a manager there, and looking back he prepped me for this years ago, giving me a small toolbox after I borrowed one from him a few days earlier with a note "don't think of this as a gift, but an investment". Now sure most people won't go out of their way to do anything for you, they owe you nothing this is life, but I could never see a woman doing that.

[–] points points | Copy Link

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[–]BluPillMaster-bater10 points11 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Getting a mentor, in my opinion, is like laying a 9 - you let it happen, you set up the probability, but you cannot force it. A mentor has to like you don't forget.

Whatever field you are in, whoever you are working around - find the man who does it the best There is always one.

And then tell him "you're fucking awesome, the best, and I want to learn from you. Can I buy you lunch"

Here's the awesome thing about people with dicks.. they love this shit. Men are fucking cool, and all men who are excellent at something relish the chance to make their field better by bettering someone more junior. I've never seen a man, who was a master, reject ANYONE not willing to do the work.

One of my toughest mentors was a bitter fat ass, a former Navy commander in my engineering group. Total fucking hard assed cock. He didn't like me, he told me so numerous times, but, funny enough, he always helped me and taught me. One particulary tough night, he looked at me and said "you're doing ok, keep your chin up."

Mentors are always out there. Just hook yourself to the best of the best whereever you are at. Don't expect friendship, or even a friendly guy. Just be open to learning and doing the work.

[–]PhaedrusHunt2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One of my toughest mentors was a bitter fat ass, a former Navy commander in my engineering group. Total fucking hard assed cock. He didn't like me, he told me so numerous times, but, funny enough, he always helped me and taught me. One particulary tough night, he looked at me and said "you're doing ok, keep your chin up."

Haha I love old guys like that. Tough love. I've met quite a few in many different fields.

[–]lorum_ipsum_dolor1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

One particulary tough night, he looked at me and said "you're doing ok, keep your chin up."

High praise indeed given the circumstances.

[–]EscapeTheGoat[S] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Definitely internships and learning from your boss. It's really important to impress someone higher up who can get you a job or get you to that next step. Practice some caution; go over the 48 laws of power again if you haven't in a while. But play your cards right, don't outshine the master, etc and bosses or supervisors are the best way to go.

[–]IBeMadToo2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This. What I did was got to know my supervisor personally, which got me exposure to higher up where I then did the same thing with those guys. That got me a promotion as a graduate. Just remember to use 48 laws.

[–]WholesomeAwesome1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

don't outshine your master and can you name the others that apply most? plz

[–]thermodynamik1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. This is true. I had to learn this the hard way.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is a whole chapter in Robert Greene's Mastery dedicated to apprenticeship.

Use the information given by the mentor, but don't become that mentor

[–]yummyluckycharms0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When I did my mba, there were at least a dozen initiatives to mentor women - zero for men. Its a societal crisis - that there are so many men that are looking for help, but can nobody wants to help them.

I make it a point to help other men in my profession, but I do agree with the viewpoint that while a man might work together with a woman, they will usually not benefit from entering a mentor relationship with women. They frankly dont care

[–]pplay_-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You want a competent mentor wherever they can be found. A wise man will recognize that people in professional fields both men and women can be competent with respect to particular things, and it is this competence that should be modeled.

It goes without saying that men know things about being men that women cannot grasp, so they should generally be modeled more intimately, but to say “there’s nothing I can learn from this person because she is a woman” is absolutely retarded.

That’s what a male-female relationship devolves to in large part. Not staying the same...but changing.

If you really want to be the best professional possible the you should learn to honor competence in whomever. And accept that there are things you can learn from women that can change you for the better.

[–]Cunari-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I've gotten much better advise from women then men in my job. Men try to hold you down and use you for their political gain.

Men who don't do those usually obey the men that would hold you down.

I've women are more helpful as long as you don't do anything that would hurt them politically.

Sure there are still women that won't help but I've not had women that actively try to step on my toes like has happened with men.

[–]EscapeTheGoat[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think you may be idealizing women as altruistic in general. This seems a little like a BP attitude that you still have lingering. Why would a woman be more likely to help you? They are somehow nicer than men?

If you have had trouble with men exploiting you for their gain without you extracting anything for yourself then you may not have navigated them correctly. It's not about being subservient to your mentor. It's about realizing that you can learn from their example and having successful students adds to their prestige and power especially in academia. It lets them build intellectual capital, which makes them more influential over the field as a whole (a field that runs off of a peer review system to publish articles).

Your female mentors may not have actively hurt you because you do work for them and that is in their self-interest. But they still cannot teach you how to navigate as a man, and as driven as we all are, we need role models as young professionals.

[–]BluPillMaster-bater-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I've worked for and with awesome women and men. this is an interesting topic because, for whatever reason, I really had a harder time learning from women. I suspect women and men in the workplace harbor different values - the values in total make each successful - but the values are different.

I'm not versed enough TRP to speak to it in the workplace. I just know, in my experience, the men value excellence to a far greater degreee. The female rockstars I knew all valued consensus and team building more. Of course a problem here in silicon valley is that a lot of women in management are there only due to having a vagina, and not for their talent. Too bad, it ain't fair to the women who actually kick ass.

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

It ain't fair to women that they get prefferential treatment due to their sex? Wow, I think I used to think like that, too.

[–]BluPillMaster-bater0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

What I said was that it aint fair to the women who actually kick ass.

Man.. what's really fucked up is that every time I see a black man in tech or management, I always assume it's because he's black.

Ironic that black people always have to prove themselves,right?

Affirmative action is shit, I was not a liberal for decades before choking down TRP ;-)

(not a fucking tradcon either)

[–]Kinbaku_enthusiast0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I'm just surprised you are more concerned with a group of people who have to deal with the inconvenience of being prejudged while getting advantages in employment options, over the group who are discriminated against in employment options.

[–]BluPillMaster-bater0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

dude, i never said concerned for fucksakes. I just said it was too bad for them. Because it is. Please, I'm on your side, take that dogged annoyance to a dirty liberal. ;-)

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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