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Treating yourself like a human

July 1, 2014
340 upvotes

The conventional advice given to men for dealing with women is “just treat them like human beings.” This advice is typically offered as a counterpoint to our evil Red Pill ways, with the implication that everything we advocate dehumanizes women. Interestingly, however, this actually is very, very good advice. Treating women like humans is essential to successful sex lives and relationships.

Where most men go wrong is that they misinterpret and misapply this great advice. They interpret “treat them like humans” as “treat them exceptionally well—like princesses.” Think about how most human beings treat other human beings. You step out of people’s way so you don’t bump into them in a crowded street. You say hello back if someone says hello to you. You make polite small talk if someone approaches you. You might even do a modest favor for someone if it’s not too out of your way, expensive, or inconvenient. And this is a generous generalization – a lot of people don’t even do most of these very basic things for other humans. Most people are generally nice and respectful to most other people they meet, but nothing more. Humans don’t treat strangers well – they just treat them generally nicely. The bare minimum to not be socially ostracized. And humans barely treat co-workers or acquaintances much better. They’re nice, they’re respectful, and they make small talk and maybe do modest favors. Many humans don’t treat their friends exceptionally well either. They talk, they go out to eat together, maybe you give a friend a ride if his car breaks down if it’s not too far out of your way. A lot of people don’t even do this much.

Most people treat other people okay, but not exceptionally well. People generally do the right thing and help each other out...as long as it’s not too far out of their way, too expensive, or too inconvenient. They’re nice, but not exceptionally so. Treating a woman exactly like that is key – treat a woman like you would anyone else. Treat her okay. Be nice. But don’t treat her exceptionally well. Don’t go too far out of your way. Don’t do anything too expensive or inconvenient. The world will call you an asshole for it, but that’s actually the advice they unwittingly gave you: Treat her like a human being. Well, that’s how human beings treat each other.

More important than all of the above, however, where men go wrong when they treat women exceptionally well is that they stop treating themselves like humans. They make sacrifices. They give up things they want. He wants to have sex every other day with his girlfriend, but she only wants sex once every two weeks, and he doesn’t push the issue, because that’s not being nice and treating her well. He wants to hit the gym then stay at home on Friday nights, but she wants to go out somewhere fancy and be wined and dined, so he gives up his Friday workouts and spends lots of money on her, because that’s being nice and treating her well. We can type out examples of this all day, but you guys get the idea.

By treating a woman exceptionally well, many men fail to treat themselves like a human. They give up themselves to please another. They don’t treat themselves well. They don’t even treat themselves with a basic level of niceness. They never get what they want. They’re too busy giving someone else everything she wants.

Treating yourself like a human is important. Having boundaries, wants, and the self-respect and honesty to go after the life you want isn’t exceptional. It’s pretty basic. If you can’t even give yourself that, you’re not treating yourself like a human.

Going with the example above: He wants sex every other day, minimum. His girlfriend only wants sex once every two weeks. He tells her, honestly, what he wants, then, having the confidence and self-respect to know that he can find a woman more sexually compatible with him elsewhere, he wishes her luck and heads for the door. Here’s where things get “evil.” Our guy is good-looking. He works out and has a great body. He’s educated and has a good job that he excels at, and makes great money. He leads an interesting life full of cool activities. He’s fun. Her friends all think he’s awesome and think she’s awesome for landing such a man. She gets major social cred for having such a great boyfriend. He’s a catch. So his girlfriend stops him! She says she’ll have sex with him every other day, just like he wants. Even though on the inside, she doesn’t really want to. He never said, “Fuck me more often or I walk.” He just respected himself enough to maintain a boundary that’s important to him, and respected his girlfriend enough to be honest about it. And she ended up doing what he wanted, even though she didn’t want it herself, because she wanted to maintain the relationship. By being so darn desirable and such a great catch, he “manipulated” her into sex that she didn’t really want. His willingness to pursue what he wanted was a “threat.” By threatening to end the relationship, he bullied her into sex.

He wants to hit the gym on Fridays after work, then come home and cook himself a couple of chicken breasts. If she’s around, he’ll throw another breast on the grill for her. She wants to go out. She wants fancy restaurants and hot dates, like all of her friends talk about doing with their boyfriends. He doesn’t want to waste the time and money on expensive and unhealthy meals, alcohol, driving halfway across town, and dry cleaning his suit every week, just to treat his girlfriend to something fancy. He treats her like a human, not a princess, and she’s afraid to make a big issue about this, because he’s such a great catch. He’ll find someone else who shares his idea of an ideal Friday night if she complains, so she keeps her mouth shut, and even though she wants fancy date nights, she gives up on the type of relationship she wants to maintain the relationship. By being so darn desirable and such a great catch, he “manipulated” her into a relationship where she feels like she’s getting very little.

Fast forward to six months later. He doesn’t really want to be tied down or committed to one woman, so he tells her so. She’s heartbroken. She cries and cries, but he sticks to what he wants, because he respects himself enough to do that, and respects her enough to be honest about what he wants. And things get even more “evil.” Even though they’re no longer an item and he’s having sex with other women, she keeps right on sleeping with him every week or two. She knows she’s third on his rotation, and she’s just a booty call now, but she desperately hopes that if she just keeps in contact with him, he’ll eventually take her back. He’s clear with her that he’s not looking for a relationship again, but she keeps right on fucking him, whenever he texts.

Fast forward another six months. She’s found another guy who’s maybe not as good-looking, wealthy, or socially apt as her last boyfriend, but he takes her out on fancy dates, never asks for sex, and treats her like a princess. Finally, she thinks, she’s getting the life she deserves. Thinking back, she realizes that her last relationship was “abusive.” Her ex-boyfriend never technically forced her to do anything. He just said what he wanted and was confident enough to walk and find what he wanted elsewhere. And she did whatever he wanted just to keep him around. She’s so angry. He clearly abused her! He manipulated her! All of that sex she never wanted was practically rape!

That’s right. Treating yourself like a self-respecting human being, having boundaries, being honest about what you want – that’s abusive. “Real men”™ make sacrifices to make women happy. Because royalty are human beings, too, so that still counts as “treating them like humans,” right?

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Post Information
Title Treating yourself like a human
Author Archwinger
Upvotes 340
Comments 67
Date July 1, 2014 3:41 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/treating-yourself-like-a-human.17334
https://theredarchive.com/post/17334
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/29kj27/treating_yourself_like_a_human/
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Comments

[–]mithridates194 points95 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's that the sacrifice is expected - that's what gets me.

Edit: As illimitableman once wrote on this board: "Man's love is expected to be sacrificial, woman's isn't."

[–][deleted] 39 points40 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

It's amazing to think that so many have done this. Being altruistic while ignoring the long term consequences that follow. If someone were able to explain this when I was a teen, I can only imagine what I would have become.

Great post.

[–]TheSKSpecial42 points43 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Don't dwell too long on what you could have become. Make up for it by doing some great shit now.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (15 children) | Copy Link

Or teach some other unknowing teenager and help them become all that they can be. Life isn't just about you.

[–]FamousAuthor4718 points19 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I'm a teenager (16 years old) and I've been studying and applying the Red Pill for over a month now. Don't worry, some few lucky ones of the teenage community lurk TRP digesting all of this.

[–]night-addict16 points17 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

18 year old teenager doing the same. The next generation is ready, we're just in development.

[–]Menadian1 point2 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

You two guys need to know, that you have scored the jackpot by finding TRP in this age. I am 22 by now and would have LOVED to be aware of this after being 16! While my failures from that time serves as powerfull experiences I can use to teach myself, I would much rather have done it right at that time ;)

[–]vorverk2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

22? I'll be 34 next month. Discovering TRP at this age should be prohibited.
"I feel I owe you an apology. We have a rule...we never free a mind once it reaches a certain age. It's dangerous, and the mind has trouble letting go."
It's turning in to a depression, seeing how beta I was most of my life, and I can't just "start over" now.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But you can start over.

Use TRP to improve the relationship you're in now or to help you find a new one/s.

Keep applying TRP logic to your relationships, keep your chin up, and see marked improvements.

[–]Katalyst811 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm 33, wish I had found this when I was 19, my life would have been completely different.

As for the mind having trouble letting go, it's funny that before I found TRP I was telling my friend at his birthday party last year "no pussy is worth this shit, it's your birthday, forget about her and lets go have fun" things like that made the pill easier to swallow for me.

[–]1xwm1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I saw someone reply to my post once once:

Me: I wish I had found red pill when I was 20, I would be so much better off now that I'm 26, plus all the college girls I could have still scored at that age

Reply 1: I wish I had found red pill when I was 26, I would be so much better off now that I'm 38, plus all the college girls I could have still scored at that age

Reply 2: I wish I had found red pill when I was 38, I would be so much better off now that I'm 50, plus all the college girls I could have still scored at that age

One: its a universal thought

Two: You can pull college girls easily through your late thirties/early fourties without much trouble, and even after that its still possible, your game just has to get better

[–]Menadian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The wisdom I draw from this is, that you close to cannot apply TRP soon enough in your life.

[–]kinklianekoff0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The wonderful thing about being an able man is that it is practically never too late. While I understand the premise, the closer to 50 you are the more it hurts to have wasted your best years. But know that the worst problem with discovering TRP at 34 is that you have not had the running start! 27-45 is most definitely the years you get most return for having TRP knowledge.

The only productive thing to do with this new knowledge is to apply it and enjoy the years you have left and know that a man ages only as well as he lives.

[–]TheSKSpecial15 points16 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

It's not all about you, but you are the most important person in your life.

Nobody first comes here because their life was going according to plan. You can't force this shit on people. They won't learn until they are ready to learn.

Tell some teenage boy that everything he's been taught about interpersonal relationships is a lie, and he will not listen to you unless he's had some unpleasant experiences with women himself.

[–]UGoBoom4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The last paragraph is absolutely true. I remember being resolute in how I pandered to women two years ago; a few friends tried giving me advice not unlike RP, and I ignored it. After achieving two different womens' affection but never even getting losing my kiss virginity, and after being oblivious to a girl giving me booty call, I am more than ready to apply RP theory to my life.

[–]TheSKSpecial3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I speak from experience. My parents gave me tons of RP-ish advice when I was a teenager and I didn't listen because I thought it was "old-fashioned". I thought that what they were saying wouldn't work because women are strong and independent now and they don't go for that kind of stuff (being assertive, taking a leadership role) anymore. Men are women are complete equals, don'tchaknow.

You name the BP cliche, I believed it. Took multiple friend-zonings, "you're gonna be a great husband one day but I don't like you in that way/bawwww why do I always fall for assholes why can't I find any nice guys"s, and eventually staring down divorce papers from a shotgun wedding to a single mom who "I'm on the pill, I promise"d me before I realized, "y'know...maybe mom and dad were right".

So even though I could dwell on what coulda, shoulda, woulda happened if I knew this stuff before, I wouldn't have been able to appreciate it without the life lessons that brought me to this point. So I've used the RP knowledge I've gained to make what was once a shitty marriage into something great, I focus on keeping it that way, and even though I'd like to teach my kid the lessons I didn't want to believe, I know he won't learn until life puts him in a position where he's ready to.

[–]1xwm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know the feeling looking back at who I used to be.

Its a mixture of: shudder / aww, that's adorable / poor bastard / just wait little guy, it'll get better.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]Jak0bi0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I volunteer to be that teenager

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've started making some small changes. The difficulty is in not getting sucked back into habits you've developed over time.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

slow clap

I'm finally fucking swallowing this pill. Today. Now.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

me too, man. It feels good.

Tomorrow I'm going to the gym for the 5th time this week. Gonna get ripped.

[–]TRiPdonGame1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good on you, mate. Be sure to create a workout plan you can stick with in the long haul, not a "New Years Resolution" plan. It takes time to get ripped, and you don't want to be making excuses for quitting halfway down the road.

[–]technician2181 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

More gym does not equal gains. I go 3 days a week; I'd highly suggest you visit some bodybuilding forums or at least google 'babylover's starting strength' for a good beginner's routine.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I am basically following this workout:

My goal is not to gain, but to get super fit. I welcome any advice though.

[–]technician2181 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Cool, I wish ya luck. I use myfitnesspal to track my macros.

[–] points points | Copy Link

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[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have to agree. My nirvana and zen moments that make life worth living are all automotive related. 500hp GTO, 700hp Firebird Formula, and always something to build, swap engines, repaint, rewire, restore, or beat mercilessly waiting in line.

There is no better feeling than being exhausted after a long day working out, working on cars, and working the wheel and throttle. The GTO and I have a date tomorrow.

[–]1xwm0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The male equivalent of a spa or a nice furbished house are sports and cars.

I would like to change this to:

The male equivalent of a spa or a nice furbished house are sports and hobbies.

Cars do nothing for me, but setting up computers, reading, playing with my pets, discussing complex ideas, rock climbing, and skiing do.

[–]zephyrprime0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

The pampering stuff won't really do much for a man. Men aren't as sensual because we're more rational instead which means spas don't do much for us. Men derive their identity from their beliefs and what they do and have done - not from their environment so decorations don't mean much for us.

[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity45 points46 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Fast forward another six months. She’s found another guy who’s maybe not as good-looking, wealthy, or socially apt as her last boyfriend, but he takes her out on fancy dates, never asks for sex, and treats her like a princess. Finally, she thinks, she’s getting the life she deserves. Thinking back, she realizes that her last relationship was “abusive.” Her ex-boyfriend never technically forced her to do anything. He just said what he wanted and was confident enough to walk and find what he wanted elsewhere. And she did whatever he wanted just to keep him around. She’s so angry. He clearly abused her! He manipulated her! All of that sex she never wanted was practically rape!

It's humorous that after all that deniability, she will still find her ex more attractive than her supplicating current.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 57 points58 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Men that are not attractive to a woman are invisible to her. She doesn't rant about them. She doesn't hate them. She's not angry with them. They just don't exist to her. Barely a blip on her radar.

She'll talk for hours about her ex-boyfriend and how terrible he was, while her current boyfriend patiently listens, soaking up all the verbal discharge like an emotional tampon, agreeing with how terrible her ex is, while pushing away sinister thoughts about how it sounds like she's not quite over her ex, and banishing any wondering about why she keeps bringing this guy up. It won't sit right with him, but he won't understand why until he comes back to his apartment to find her fucking her ex silly in his bed. And he'll probably forgive her, too, as long as she doesn't leave him, because he's so lucky to have a girlfriend at all.

[–]2Overkillengine18 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The opposite of love is not hate. Hate implies you still care. The opposite of love is indifference.

When a woman hates a man, she cares about him.

[–]greycloud246 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

a lot of guys don't realize this. its the core of why negging even works. if a woman doesn't care that you exist, than it is harder for her to be attracted to you. but if she hates you, and you "redeem" yourself, than that hate turns into love. it isn't about love or hate, it is about the intensity of emotion felt. if you can make her feel strongly towards you, you can get that strong feeling to be positive.

[–]Broder450 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This string of comments will really make some people think. I haven't looked at it this way before, but I agree. It's all about the emotions.

TIL: The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference.

[–]Summertime_Dimes6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Excellent post, chief. The points you make epitomize what I learned since coming to TRP. I firmly believe that so long as a man is open, direct, communicative, and honest about what he wants and doesn't want from a relationship with a woman, and provided that she has the option to say no thank you, its all good and nobody else's business what happens between them.

Adult humans need to accept responsibility for their choices regardless of gender. If a woman chooses to fuck her ex or cheat on her current with a good-looking, exciting guy - it is her choice. If a man chooses to exit a relationship with a woman because their needs are incompatible - it is his choice. Nobody owes anybody anything in the romance game except the option to say no thank you if they are not willing.

I will not entertain the notion that a man is manipulative or acting in bad faith if he says to his woman, "My ideal partner is happy to do XYZ, if you are not willing to do XYZ then we need to see other people." I have had this said to me plenty of times by women, and never once felt like I did not have the option to say no. I was a BP pussy and afraid to say no, but even still I was aware that I COULD and accept the consequences.

TL;DR - TRP is right on, men and woman are humans and should be treated as such. Be good to those who are good to you, and don't be afraid to ask for something/bail if you don't get it. Nice post, OP.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire223 points24 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

"Treat them like human beings."

That suggests that human beings are inherently "good" or something, instead of predatory, self-interested, dangerous animals who turn on each other when the chips are down.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 25 points26 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Most humans are risk-adverse, conflict-avoidant, bland, nice people. They're pleasant to each other, and for the most part, follow the law, do the right thing, and help each other out (because they have a really hard time saying no since that's a conflict -- but they also have a hard time actually asking for what they want because they fear rejection).

So most people will help out another human as long as it's not too much of an imposition. Most people are "generally nice." But for the wrong reasons. They're nice because they're self-interested. Being nice is easy, doesn't get you into conflicts, it's the least risky way to live, and you end up generally socially accepted with little risk of being ostracized.

But put one human in a position where (s)he has complete power over another, or where a person has a potential for gain at the expense of someone else with absolutely no consequence and/or chance of getting caught, and the story changes drastically.

[–]Endorsed Contributormonsieurhire25 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"Are" is a very problematic word because it implies permanence. People avoid risks, affect a bland outward demeanor, and behave or pretend to be "nice," whatever "nice" means. In my experience, people are long on talk and short on action.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

In my experience, people are long on talk and short on action.

True. A lot of people who consider you a "close friend" will hang out with you and let you buy them drinks, but disappear if you ask them to help you move out of your apartment.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

You always find out who your true friends are in a crisis. Those guys you get along with and joke with... many will disappear in a hot minute. Some because they don't care, some because they don't know how to communicate/behave, others because they're wrapped up in their own problems. Momentarily we have companionship, ultimately esp. as men, we're alone, the only people who will perhaps give up their own sense of well being for us is our parents, not friends, not women. Some are unlucky enough to have shitty parents too. Most people like us and love us when it's easy to like us and love us, but when we need help and it becomes difficult, they look the other way, repulsed, awkward, avoidant.

I don't expect much of people, when I find myself disappointed I scold myself for being so naive to think someone actually gave that much of a fuck. I'm rarely disappointed. On the flipside, live in the moment and enjoy the shared moments, laugh with people as much as possible, life is pretty inherently shitty so adopting amused mastery is a great coping mechanism, just realise in your heart of hearts you've got only yourself "when the chips are down" third party sacrifice and help is in short supply for a man.

[–]pleasedontknowme301 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I love this particular scene...shows TRUE FRIENDS - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nukRk0WMspo

Also shows HAMSTERING AT FULL BLAST!

[–]greycloud243 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

people don't turn on each other when the chips are down. poverty increases social bonds, because people are safer in groups. even the poor violent crackhead seeks refuge in a gang.

think of it less as humans turning on each other, and more of in group and out group dynamics. people are fundamentally herd animals. those in the herd are friends, those outside of the herd are not. humans turn on each other when they change herds, not when the chips are down.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There's some good inherent in humans. Otherwise goodness and kindness wouldn't exist, which it clearly does. A lot of people on this planet are good. If you grow up in the western world you don't see that.

[–]2Overkillengine6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sure as shit, some jackanape will try to re-frame this as being exploitative of women, without realizing or caring that women are just as prone as men to trying to get something for nothing or for as little as possible.

The only difference is our society for decades has made it acceptable for women to do it, while training men to give up as much as possible.

So if certain demographics don't like that men are realizing that applying a version of skinner box training to their social interactions is the most effective method of achieving personal actualization, then too damn bad. They should have rewarded sacrifice more if they did not want that to happen.

Society made its bed, society can lie in it. Do what works.

[–]pleasedontknowme303 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

great writeup. One thing I want to comment specifically on...and this is also assuming a respectful relationship

He wants sex every other day, minimum. His girlfriend only wants sex once every two weeks. He tells her, honestly, what he wants, then, having the confidence and self-respect to know that he can find a woman more sexually compatible with him elsewhere, he wishes her luck and heads for the door.

In your example, I am not sure if our imaginary characters actually had a talk about their desires/wants in the bedroom and whether anything can compromise. In an LTR, that seems a much more reasonable approach before just stepping out the door and wishing them good luck.

[–]un-affiliated11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

When it comes to something like sex, compromise doesn't work except very short term. If she doesn't feel like having sex more than once every few weeks, she'll be just as resistant when you ask after 3 days as she would if you ask after 1. That turns into a terrible situation of you begging her to honor the compromise and her resenting you. Ask r/deadbedrooms how compromise works; they've all tried it. You can't negotiate her attraction to you.

If you're far apart it's better to just walk. At that point she will either change her mind about the role of sex in the relationship, or you'll find someone else who wants to fuck you. Either way you win. The take away is that you're not a bad person for saying you enjoy sex and won't be part of a monogamous relationship that doesn't feature it. If compromise gets you what you wanted, go for it. If it doesn't you still have options.

A woman can end a marriage with kids because she's bored and get applauded for it, but if a guy ends a relationship because he doesn't want to become a virtual eunuch at 30 people will come out the woodwork to call him shallow.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Our hypothetical characters can have whatever conversation you'd like to imagine. I'm picturing something like the girlfriend handing the guy a slip of paper with an equation on it, because nerdy girls are hot:

(14 + 2) / 2 = 8

The guy would, of course, agree to this compromise where neither one of them gets what they want and both are unhappy, because that's what good men do. Two days later, the girl hands him another slip of paper:

8 - 2 = 6

6 / 2 = 3

14 - 8 = 6

6 / 14 > 1 / 3

Ts = 9, not 8

The guy would shrug and agree since that's almost the same. Two days later, she'd hand him a note.

"We're going back to every two weeks like I want or I'm dumping you, you beta tool. Way to stick to your boundaries, loser."

[–]HeadingRed3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

"Treating yourself like a human is important. Having boundaries, wants, and the self-respect and honesty to go after the life you want isn’t exceptional."

It's not only what's good for you, it is vital if you want to bring value to any LTR should you choose to go into one. Not taking care of yourself makes you a dependent. She might as well adopt a child or get a dog.

Good post buddy.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TL;DR Don't pedestelize pussy. Do something - anything, only if you want it.

[–]16 TRP VanguardTRPsubmitter2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it comes down to entitlement.

Everyone feels entitled to the same treatment that they observed someone else getting. For example, when women see another woman they feel is comparable to them getting special treatment, then they also feel entitled to that same treatment.

Hence, when women see men spend time/money/resources on one woman but then use "dread game" or "negging" on another woman, they feel offended. "Why does woman B not get that special treatment? Treat her like a human!". You told a 180 lb woman to her face that you don't find her attractive? Hmm, why do you support the terrorists? You told a single mom that she made an irresponsible sexual choice? Please tell me why you support rape?

"Treat me like a human" really does carry no meaning. It's simply women trying to relabel "special treatment" (which is something you must EARN) as something they are entitled to instead (as humane treatment is obviously deserved by everyone). Hence, it's all a trick, because if you deny humane treatment to someone, you're obviously an asshole.

Whereas before, women would EARN a high value mate (rich, smart, etc), having access to a high value man and being treated nicely by high value men has now become a god-given right in womens' minds. They believe they no longer need to do anything inherently other than basic civility.

Well it all comes down to tit-for-tat in guys' minds. When a guy is shit-tested or has his manhood challenged relentlessly, then he's going to come back with dread game or whatever. That's a natural reaction and response to the woman's behavior. If she is sweet, generous and feminine, then there's no need for dread game and this so-called conflict never even comes to fruition.

The bottomline: Women often misconstrue reality to match their FEELINGS. They feel ostracized, mocked and humiliated because a man they liked asked out the college girl intern instead of them.

[–]BrothaTom1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Insightful post. It is tragic that altruistic thoughts are often modeled after a parabola, by being overly sacrificial you take huge risk in being viewed as weak or as an opportunity to be taken advantaged of by others. Of course, it is also the ignorance of my own blindness towards reality that allowed things to escalate to this point. All that I ever asked for my s.o. was just sticking with the fundamentals and communicate with honesty, and even those attempts are "quasi" at best.

Manipulative or not, I am done with woman (or anyone else really) gaming a relationship just for their own advantage. Life with the ball in their court suck; they can't dribble, can't pass don't want to learn or do anything to improve the collective outcome. It is not about blame, more than it's about the negative utility in their approach to relationships.

[–]exoduslife0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

...like princesses

i often think about the correlation between the way women behave and how their fathers treated them while they were growing up - I often see girls, being called "princess" and spoiled by their fathers and i wonder what they will be like once they grow-up. By placing that idea, of them being special above everything else, inside their minds at that young age it's a given that they will behave like a princess and manipulate people to get what they want.

Quite the opposite is true for young boys; so much bullshit about being noble, the lesser man, the good guy is being fed through all kinds of mediums into their minds that once they do grow up, they are at a disadvantage compared to their female peers.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's pertinent to note how much of what they say is Powertalk. "Just treat them like human beings" changes the dialogue such that not treating a woman like a princess is considered a deviation from standard. It's a clever use of dialogue that sets the frame in a way that benefits women most.

Establishing your own boundaries is simply a re-establishment to the mean. Have your boundaries, let her have hers, let the chips fall where they fall. You have other options if she doesn't want to continue with you.

Women primarily use Powertalk to maximize their advantage in life, men use action. Treat the subtext of "Just treat them like human beings" as a shit test to be powered through.

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[–]MrRexels2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Better yet, treat yourself like an actually worthwhile person!

[–]insane_psycho0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I think the mantra of "treating women like humans" is entirely disingenuous. It sounds good and appealing but when people say that they never mean anything close to what the OP is talking about. I would be extremely surprised if women actually wanted to be treated like humans as opposed to the preferential treatment they get just about all the time.

They want the illusion of equality / equal treatment with all the special privileges of chivalry thrown in as well.

[–]1PaulRivers102 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

True, it's one of the shaming phrases that makes you sound bad while being vague enough that it can mean anything. They do want to be treated like human - because it's so ambiguous it just means whatever they want it to mean.

Holding a door for a woman can be "treating her like a human being", or it can be a demeaning act that's "not treating her like a human being", depending on the needs of the speaker.

[–]southernmost3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You missed the point. Treat them the way they need to be treated to elicit desired behavior, not the way they say they want to be treated.

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[–]Vulgrr_Display1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You answered your own question. The guy in the story was himself. Turns out she wasn't compatible. He moved on. End of story. There's nothing to see here.

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[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If someone REALLY wanted to treat others with respect, they would walk away or stop someone who doesn't know any better from selling themselves short. He may not have manipulated her into fucking more than she wanted to...but he definitely took advantage of what was stupidly offered to him. It's most certainly not respectful.

You're really overstepping your bounds here. This right here -- this thing you just said -- is paternalistic. It's patriarchal. It's misogynistic.

When a woman offers sex to a man, the only thing he ought to consider is, "Do I want to have sex with this woman?"

It's not his place to substitute his judgment for hers, decide that her expectations are unrealistic, decide that she's making a mistake, decide that she doesn't know what she's doing, and decide that he knows what's best for her. Who the fuck does he think he is, trying to decide what's best for this woman, or what she really wants, or whether she's "selling herself short" or not?

She's a fucking adult. She can make her own decisions. He gave her honest information. He didn't lie to her or mislead her. She made a decision based on that honest information. Who the fuck is he to conclude that she made the wrong decision, and to substitute his own judgment for hers?

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

You're coming dangerously close to adopting a victim-mentality. Women aren't mindless children with no agency. If she makes bad choices it's on her to realize that, and to correct her situation. It's feminist ideas like this that are often the most misogynist.

As for more ORDINARY/ less serious levels, if I'm in love, I'm gonna' love spoiling the shit out of him. Hopefully he does too!

You clearly don't understand the male experience. Most men come to places like TRP precisely because they find the "Give 100% and hopefully they'll give back" doesn't work. Ever. It's very similar to a negotiation. Imagine if you went to a car dealer and said "Here's $40,000, now give me whatever you think is the best I deserve with that, I'll take it". There's no way you'll come out ahead.

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[–]TRP VanguardCyralea0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You misunderstand me. I don't doubt your sincerity, but your advice would be akin to me advising late-term women on common issues they'll face just before pregnancy. That women experience similar-looking issues is irrelevant to us; we want to know how to navigate the situation best. Your advice may work for women, but it most certainly does not for men. I can understand why you might think it's relevant to us, but the collective thousands of us here have very different experiences.

To take advantage of someone requires by definition for that person to be weak or in a compromised state. To suggest that a woman isn't strong enough to handle herself without men taking care of her is again, deeply misogynist. I'm surprised that you would come here with that.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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