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Why do people bash red pill all the time?

June 17, 2014

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Post Information
Title Why do people bash red pill all the time?
Author clone9786
Upvotes 9
Comments 49
Date June 17, 2014 9:24 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link
Original Link
Red Pill terms in post

[–]MikeyCSGO11 points12 points  (23 children) | Copy Link

Redpill is really easy to hate for a lot of reasons listed in the thread. But if you tell people bare basic shit that's in the sidebar WITHOUT the buzzwords a lot of them will agree with you.

[–]TurgidMeatWand4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This, word choice is very important when trying to promote anything. Statements like AWALT cock carousel, compounded with the fact a lot new users tend to post butthurt make it easy to frame arguments against redpill.

[–]satanic_hamster3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because people don't like hearing the truth.

That's why every mention of TRP that I hear outside of TRP is always accompanied or motivated by a distasteful sneer, and never an argument. For most people in this community, TRP is justified by the simple fact that it works. If it didn't work for you, you wouldn't be doing it, plain and simple (why waste your time and get upset constantly hitting your head against the wall). Even most RP'ers I suspect don't like what's said, but it's hard to disagree with it when the whole of your experience testifies to it.

You have to relate to people on their own terms, so, that's exactly what I do. If most women I dealt with were plain and rational, life would be easy, but many of them just don't make things that way. What else am I left to do? Treat them like garbage and in ways that get them to react to how I need them to be. I don't like it, but it works in the end.

Quote from Thomas Sowell exemplifies this attitude perfectly:

"People will forgive you for being wrong, but they will never forgive you for being right -- especially if events prove you right while proving them wrong."

[–]TRedP2 points3 points  (20 children) | Copy Link

My biggest criticism of TRP is that some of the vocabulary makes the philosophy unpalatable to people who've been raised to avoid saying such things.

And they're largely unnecessary. It's almost like TRP is on a mission to be as politically incorrect as possible, even at the cost of self-vilification.

I realize TRP is the worst place to say, "don't use that word!", but we don't have to be complete jerks when we're talking about TPR. We can say orbiter instead of emotional tampon, or rationalize instead of hamster. The latter words in the given examples are more precise, accessible to new folks who aren't familiar with the vernacular, and less likely to drive them off.

In case anyone is wondering, that's the source of the constant accusation of hating women. If a relatively well-adjusted (though unfamiliar with TRP) guy comes in here, and the first thing he sees is something about a special snowflake hamstering about hitting the wall after riding the cock carousel... well, that's not a surprising conclusion. He leaves, takes that with him, and BAM! Next time he sees TRP mentioned in /r/AskReddit, that's what he reports.

You guys can shoot the messenger if you like, but them's the breaks, kiddo.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan9 points10 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

RP and PC don't mix. You're basically saying we need to put the "feelz" of Reddit's general population ahead of our frank, honest discourse. He who owns the language frames the debate, my friend. And I'm not about to censor terminology so r/feminism and r/askreddit will hate us just a little bit less.

The first step of redpill is to stop seeking outside validation.

[–]TRedP-1 points0 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

You're basically saying we need to put the "feelz" of Reddit's general population ahead of our frank, honest discourse.

If I had another criticism of TRP, it's that they all-too-often put words in the mouth of unpopular commentors when the message doesn't fit the mainstream narrative.

[–]rpkarma5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes that does happen here a bit, but no, that's not what the commenter above did. By censoring ourselves, we inherently are kowtowing to others feelings, that's the entire point of self censorship. And what would we gain from that? I argue not enough to make up for what we lose, which is the ability to discuss without second guessing, proper masculine honesty.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We see this all the time in politics and political correctness. If you can re-frame the language to fit your narrative, you start from a position of power and tilt the playing field in your favor. Regardless of your political slant, we see this all the time:

  • It's not a "fetus", it's a "baby" (ultra conservatives when debating abortion)
  • It's not "illegal alien", it's "undocumented worker" (ultra liberals when debating immigration)
  • It's not "global warming", it's "climate change" (liberals when debating existence of man-made climate shifts)
  • It's not "killing terrorists", it's "protecting freedom" (neocons when debating going to war in foreign nations)
  • It's not "men's rights activist", it's "misogynist shitlord" (feminists trying to deny the existence of misandry)

When you start conceding the language, or diluting it into nothing more than a Soylent powder of mush, your point loses it's validity and it's bite, and your detractors can much more easily invalidate your argument.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Let's pretend for a minute that I gave a shit what the rest of Reddit thinks of this sub (I don't). Do you really think anything we do is gonna change their fucked up opinions of this place? They frequently "vote" this sub as the "worst" on Reddit and the one they'd most like to see deleted. This, while subs exist that advocate incest, killing babies, and hating black people.

If the fems can use terms like "rape culture" and "shitlord" and "sperm donor" to refer to men, I really see no problem with "AFBB" and "hamster" when describing them. TRP came about as a response to feminism and women breaking the social contract. Not the other way around. I see no reason to censor the terms that best describe observable behaviors and actions.

[–]TRedP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You appear to be arguing that it's okay because they do it, too. That's fine for you, I suppose, but I personally don't want to stoop to their level. "Shit lord", "rape culture," and "sperm donor" all sounds immature at best. It's like calling your parents "The Rents."

We're not 15 anymore.

Ultimately I'm not telling any TRPerto change how they talk. But there are some folks - like me - who subscribe to the ideas without feeling that it's necessary to glom onto the vernacular. It's tropey and stale, and makes me feel like a goof ball - which is my business, I realize you couldn't care less - but that has to inform my decisions.

You seem to be laboring under the impression that I am trying to tell you what words to use. Re-read everything I've written, and you'll see that this idea is far from the truth. At no point have I said that you or anyone else should do anything. I deliberately said "we can."

I don't particularly care, either, if other subs hate TRP. But the OP's question, I repeat, was why. Is it not possible to think about causes without being invested in the results? Can we not consider why we are hated without caring that we are? The fact is that the terms widely used on the sub are a major contributing factor, and anyone who says otherwise is delusional.

If I had a third criticism of TRP, it would be that it has a streak of anti-intellectualism that discourages discourse like this.

[–]1neveragoodtime5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think creative marketing would help greatly, but our message of actions have consequences is essentially battling the feminist call of "You can have it all!" That is an uphill battle until you realize that you can't actually have it all, and it was childish to think that way. So some people are going to reject the responsible path for the catchy soundbite.

Also our tendency to generalize that all women are like that rubs many men and women the wrong way. I think of it as AWALT until you proven otherwise. The days of giving women the benefit of the doubt are over. Too many men are being cheated on, cuckolded, frivorced, abused, and taken advantage of while the female perpetrators are encouraged. Women have pushed an agenda for thirty years that has broken our trust, and now TRP gets flack for being so rude as to say we don't trust women anymore.

[–]1kick62 points3 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I see where you're coming from, but my response is thus: so what? Why does TRP need to be inviting to everyone? This idea that everything should be inviting so everyone joins (yay, koombaya) is part and parcel with the blue pill bitch-boy bullshit the whole movement is fighting against. Have you ever seen old men, raised before the age of feminism, interact with each other? Old war buddies? Hell, currently enlisted soldiers? There's nothing polite, inviting, or even approaching civility in the way they communicate.

this scene from Gan Torino perfectly illustrates how men communicate when they're not trying to powder puff their speech for the PC crowd (aka reality denialists and women who feed off indignation)

And you're asking TRP to lower the bar, to go against it's own tenets so people who can't handle it feel comfortable? How 'bout no.

[–]TRedP0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Some of the vocabulary only really serves to provoke SJWs, and it doesn't really help us understand each other better - in my opinion. I accept others probably disagree, but I don't really care. It works for me without the pointlessly inflammatory vernacular.

But in the spirit of TRP I usually keep those thoughts to myself and communicate in a way I prefer, letting others do the same. I only mentioned it because of the OP's meta question.

I can't imagine that anyone would deny that the vocabulary used to convey our ideas is a major contributing factor to why TRP is so hated.

[–]1kick62 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

We're not trying to understand each other (back to my koombaya jab). TRP isn't some egalitarian commune where we all need to "get" each other, its a hierarchy like any military unit or team. Why? Because that's how men organize. Men don't need to "get" each other, we just need to know that everyone in the unit/on the team is fit for duty. Consider the grating vocabulary as a man's version of s shit test in this regard: if you can't handle the terminology, you can't handle the truths they describe, and aren't fit for team red pill. And if you're not fit for team red pill, we don't want you here.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You said better what I was trying to say. I don't care if we provoke SJW's. Their "feelings" about us are none of my concern.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

And they're largely unnecessary. It's almost like TRP is on a mission to be as politically incorrect as possible, even at the cost of self-vilification.

Being someone competent in speaking emphatically and with abandon like Patrice O'Neal whilst also being competent in speaking in a "upper class manner" using less common adjectives that form part of a more sophisticated style of register (oh dear we're in quite the quandary!) I know exactly what you mean, sometimes a message sounds better when you're swearing your ass off and making colourful metaphors because to dress it up in "the language of intellectualisation" would make it less comprehendible to a large subset of the population whilst detracting from the temerity of the message, other times, say you are trying to communicate a theory rather than communicate an opinion or a message, the language of intellectualisation is more appropriate as theorisation is inherently intellectual in nature, whilst opinion often enough is not.

Both informal and formal register can be unpalatable when used in the wrong context. A lot of people shy away from anything that sounds too complex, others will shy away from anything that sounds "rather trashy in nature", personally I warm up to both (smart sounding shit and "street wisdom") I pity those who can only gain knowledge when it is delivered in a specific way, it is the hallmark of an intolerant mind that allows its prejudice to limit its receptivity to knowledge.

In other news, part of the red pill is a disdain for political correctness, political correctness is a way of controlling thought processes, you change the language and you change the way people think. Everyone's stood there saying one thing when everyone really knows that it's bullshit, until eventually people actually begin believing in the bullshit doublespeak that political correctness is. If you've read 1984 you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.

[–]TRedP0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't disagree about anything you said, but the question is why do people bash it, and frankly, it's a marketing problem that stems from being so deliberately non-PC. I think we take it too far sometimes, but I'm not about to tell anyone to change it.

How abrasive any TRPer wants to be is up to them and no one else. I try to stay away from the vernacular that is particularly, unnecessarily, inflammatory. I think it helps bring new people around. But that's just, like, my opinion.

[–]Science_isthenewcool 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

... an "upper class manner" *


Aside from minor typos, I agree with the premise of your statement.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I was too busy thinking about my mansion! /irony

[–]deepsouthscoundrel1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If the first thing he reads isn't from the sidebar then we didn't need him anyway.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link


What is this?

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is the act of exposing the truth that offends outsiders. Not the language used to convey it.

This is the most truthful statement in this thread yet, and the most succinct answer to the OP's question.

[–]jobs33ker0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's almost like TRP is on a mission to be as politically incorrect as possible, even at the cost of self-vilification.

I don't see anything wrong with this. If you take issue with our non pc language, I would have to assume you have not swallowed the red pill. We aren't trying to recruit newcomers. That's one of the most important part of this philosophy; that newcomers must unplug themselves. And what you are suggesting (watering down the message) is what causes social rot.

[–]Algermas19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because nothing hurts more than the truth.

When beta boys are young they are told by their mothers, sisters and society that the boys girls do like ( masculine, popular and yes, sometimes jerks and assholes ) are wrong and that eventually betaboy will "win". This becomes an integral part of their psychology, if im a good boy the girls will eventually like me, mom said so.

Dad was an asshole who tricked mom and so she had to divorce him, fuck you dad i'll never be like you.

When you threaten that delusion or rather unveil it for what it is ( carousel riders settling for beta bux ) you're poking their heart with a scorching needle.

What would you do if someone came at you with a flaming hot piece of iron? You fight them tooth and nail.

But the needle of TRP isn't intended to cause harm, its pain must be endured to cauterize the wound, to burn away the infection caused by years of lies and misinformation regarding the opposite sex.

Unfortunately many, many men will never endure it long enough to experience its healing potential.

[–]2popthatpill7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

1) As Rollo has pointed out before, RP returns a measure of control of a woman's hypergamy to the man, and women have a primal need to maintain control of their hypergamy (hey, it's their genetic legacy, after all).

2) As I've pointed out here before, AFBB is nothing more than a scam, and scammers don't want their marks finding out about the scam. RP threatens to cut off the BB, supplication, free shit, orbiters, female privilege, etc.

(You said "aside from women and feminists", and the above points are why women and feminists don't like RP. Ok, you already know that, I thought I'd just mention those points for completeness.)

So your actual question is why men are anti-RP (not just BP, but anti-RP). I guess the reason why is because BP guys don't want to give up their emotional/time/etc investments in BP crap, so they attack RP for making them feel uncomfortable, as though we're a constant reminder of why they're striking out with women. To admit we're right would mean them writing off all their investments in BP relationship advice as a scam, a fraud, a waste of time and money, etc etc. Understandably, they don't want to do that.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Free thinking and independent men are societies most dangerous and creative force. They cannot be controlled effectively by the state or women.

[–]TRP Vanguard: "Dark Triad Expert"IllimitableMan1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They will however be kept from the seats of power in most major organisations, the establishments that are instead opting to promote a more manageable bluepiller or shock horror, a high stress order barking female. Only free thinkers who also happen to be extremely DT can basically "psycho their way in" to a position of power.

Free thinking independent men need to forge their own path, society does not accept them and does not want to give their ideas a platform unless those ideas develop upon whatever the prevailing social narrative of the time is.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.

[–]greyngreen4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The Red Pill is politically incorrect.

Political correctness is a term that refers to enforced language, ideas, or policies that address perceived discrimination against "protected classes," i.e. women.

Historically, the term was used by Communists in political debates, referring to the "party line", which provided for "correct" positions on many matters of politics.

Western culture is quite BP (has many associations with communism in my opinion). And to be BP is to be controlled. There are certain things that you're not allowed to say. The Red Pill breaks their rules.

[–]1kick64 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

people are fed blue pill since birth. It's their reality. Their ego is entirely invested in blue pill being truth. It's not surprising when someone says "hey, this whole persona you've built for yourself, this thing you think you are, not only does it not work, but it's a total fucking lie." Yea, it's going to cause some anger.

And the """worst""" part about red pill: it makes your shitty situation your fault. Nobody wants to fess up to that. Nobody wants to have to stomach the idea that their shit life isn't a cosmic fuckup. Nobody wants to have to put in the effort to actual change themselves. If they suck it's someone elses fault and there's nothing to be done. The red pill says, no, that's all bullshit.

[–]1FrogTrainer2 points3 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

The only place you'll find an honest critique of TRP is on DE.

[–]YimannoHaffavoa2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Alright, apparently AutoModerator deletes three word questions now. So:

What is DE?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

DE stands for Dark Enlightenment, most likely.


[–]N3vertheless2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Look up the idea of cultural orthodoxy's and plausiblity structures. People don't want to believe that the red pill is true because it is harsh. It means that there is no princess and there is no prince charming.

"A women will never love you the way you want her to." That's some harsh shit for the neckbeards that populate reddit. They all want to believe that some beautiful woman is going to come along and love them for who they are. The Red Pill is the antithesis of modern culture. Moderns don't want to work for things, they want the government or "society" to provide their creature comforts. The Red Pill's fundamental message is simple, "You aren't good enough, be better."

[–]deepsouthscoundrel1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They all want to believe that some beautiful woman is going to come along and love them for who they are.

A beautiful woman can love you for who you are - so long as who you are is a strong, confident, attractive, successful man.

The catch is, "love" does not imply eternal, unconditional effort on her part toward monogamy. If another man comes along who is stronger, more confident, and more attractive than you, she may very well choose him over you. Her actions are outside of your control, but there are things you can do to mitigate the chances of it happening. It's up to you to A) Constantly improve your attractiveness and B) maintain a frame of mind in which her leaving is not a loss to you.

The Red Pill's fundamental message is simple, "You aren't good enough, be better."

This, in my opinion, is why Eliot Rodgers became violent. He believed himself to not only be "good enough", but perfect, exquisite, god-like. The man was so unbelievably narcissistic that concept of him not being good enough is one he simply could not accept. Rather, he would reject that concept outright. Reality, however, persisted in reminding him that he was not, in fact, good enough. This truth was too harsh for him to accept, and in my (admittedly amateur) opinion, this truth that he was forced to face was the straw that broke the camel's back.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Anything that fails to further the feminine imperative- to choose their Alpha fucks early in life and then after they are used up and "ready" to choose their Beta Buck workhorse- will be opposed fiercely by women.

TRP teaches men how to take control of women's hypergamy and get the sex they want without jumping through hoops and submitting to women.

How could they not oppose it with every fiber?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because the system is working just 'fine' for them. And by fine, I mean most people get the occasional partner from their circle every so often and don't question things beyond that. Lifting yourself beyond your station is seen as manipulative and weird. Not my views, but what I see from a lot of BP folks.

[–]MagicGainbow2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Since the majority of redditors are male i'd say white knights trying to score points.

[–]The_CEO_of_Beta[🍰] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've found that many people in general agree with Red Pill and its teachings, they just don't agree with the terminology or the idea that there's a community dedicated to it.

There was a bestof'd story of a guy talking about how women control and manipulate young male athletes, calling themselves basketball wives who ultimately end up divorce raping these men. The very same guy who posted the story started going nuts when RP linked his story and was spouting, "FUCK TRP" even though he was speaking RP truth.

There was another bestof'd story about "Trickle Truth", how women would always tell half-truths and/or give very vague details such as "I... 'kissed' him." Again, people took it as gospel as long as TRP was not mentioned.

You can repeat this again and again, it's just that the term TRP carries so much baggage to it that people would rather kill it than learn from it. We don't invent this shit, this is stuff that we observe and aren't afraid to call out women on.

Though, there is one more idea that I am figuring out from talking RP with my best friend, who almost hated me for talking RP with him even though he completely agrees with it. Most of people out there, while they see and recognize this stuff, see things like TRP as extremists. They don't know where all this stuff is coming from. Yeah it's not like they're completely blind, they know there are some terrible people out there, but they don't like seeing guys rant about a problem that they themselves don't really see.

My friends would look down on me for things about "Red Pill", and the very same friends would continue talking about how the dating scene these days is total garbage and how "capricious" (carouseling) girls are with guys.

TRP is ultimately understanding the social dynamics between men and women. There is a battlefield out there, and clueless men are being taken full advantage of by women. Swallowing TRP is bootcamp for that. It is bitter, but it will toughen you to survive. There are "nice guys" who are fed this fantasy garbage of finding true love and believing they have to prove themselves worthy of it, but the truth is that women are just people. People are fickle and opportunistic. The difference between a person and a dog is that a dog wouldn't bite the hand that feeds; it is a phrase reserved only for people.

[–]veyron10014 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It puts women on a level playing field.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's called the red pill for a reason. It is really hard to swallow and see the world in an entirely different life. If from day one you have been raised being told all this Blue Pill BS it is hard to detach from. Even with experiencing RP truth in your relationships. Also, a lot of the fundamentals involve you making major (hard) improvements in your life, and force you to stop lying to yourself and making excuses like you had to keep yourself comfortable. People don't want the pill, they want to believe that by being blue pill the fairy tale endings will come.

[–]ryeprotagonist1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

because cognitive dissonance is a helluva thing.

[–]chocolatecuntmuffin2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It goes against everything you've been taught as a male in modern society. It's like living in the middle ages when everyone thought earth was flat, and someone told you that earth is actually a sphere (ish), when you know it's not. How dare you, how stupid are you to make those assumptions, is what they think, even if you come to that conclusion with hard evidence

[–]Overzealous_BlackGuy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

The vernacular most readers use is a little immature and unfamiliar to people who may actually be able to recognize the truths easily, and to be honest most of the hate is over-generalized statements that evolve from hear-say from other redditors, so that everyone thinks we kill women and hate fuck their dead bodies, and try to justify it by saying there is truth to what we say. hence why TRP isn't allowed in certain subs like /r/bestof . To be honest!!! those people can suck my dick and swallow everything that comes out of it and choke on it. While I hate fuck their dead bodies and try to justify it by saying there is some truth to what we say.

I'm kidding about the hate fuck part, but you catch my drift. Ignorance and reddits hive like minds bring a lot of heat to this sub, but just like drake it bring us success.

[–]Overzealous_BlackGuy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

People make a point that were not here to appease anyone, but I really hate the lingo, but if it's so bad you have a problem you can always just visit a different site.

[–]waynebradysworld0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Why do people bash the right wing on reddit?

[–]-Viking--1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

red pill is the best solution and how fucked up women can be sometimes (I don't want to generalize becaus there are great women out there too! Just in my experience is all)

Coming from an objective viewpoint (someone who reads red pill, but doesn't believe it to be dogma) this is what the problem is. TRP tends to generalize women, as a whole. Yes, there are so many terrible women out there...girls who sleep around in college and expect their Prince Charming to pick them up in an Audi en route to their honeymoon the day they turn 25. But not all of them, or even most of them are like this. I know there are lots of posts that sprinkle in about what a good woman is, but these are seldom, and you usually have to read a lot to find these comments. Meaning the casual observer doesn't get that far.

The red pill, in my mind (and again-as a rational observer, I read this sub, both for information and to criticize) is strangely similar to feminism. Both are somewhat irrational belief systems that generalize the other sex, making them all look like terrible people. Shitty people are everywhere; for every entitled female, I can find an equally entitled male loser whose parents pay for all his fuck ups.

Outsiders feel the same about TRP as they do about 2XChromosomes or some other bullshit feminism sub. That's just how the common people view radical beliefs.

[–]-Viking--1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Also I'd like to add that there are some contradicting beliefs on this subreddit. If someone were to use this subreddit as a guide for how to select the perfect woman/how to be the perfect woman, there would be contradicting information. For example, I see posts about women not worrying about money or their careers, because they think they shouldn't have to and they will meet some guy who will take care of it. This is seen as a negative. Also seen as a negative, is women who are financially independent/career focused.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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