You're really not that bad. The Red Pill sub is turning into a pretzel when it comes to meeting women. Younger guys on here are getting mind fucked if they read the comment section now. Here are a few things I look back on choking on blue pills that may be some benefit.

June 28, 2020
271 upvotes

This is my story that covers a few years of my life and is incomplete because it does not have a happy ending, just things happened and continue to happen. There may be some contradictions. I'm assuming you know some things that are missing without being said, and expect you to extend me the same courtesy. About to turn 30 in a few months and have been looking into the past a lot.

I'm not going to lie and I am not ashamed to say, I used to spend massive amounts of time consuming pick up artist material. It was the missing link in my life. It explained my past and current situation(I found David DeAngelo in an ad, then The Game, Mystery Method and RSD, Simple Pickup, when I was about 18)... What did I learn? Almost everything we are exposed to in the media is backwards(the blue pill). Men are taught to act like women, expect women to act like men, and it is a recipe for failure and rejection. A good friend and I discovered game at the same time and actually had dreams of becoming teachers. that is how much we believed in its power.

Now it is troubling for me to come on TRP and see men being discouraged from all PUA material instead of being guided to the best content(some of it is excellent now). or Learning how to approach is seen as a waste of time because you shouldn't have a spare minute that you are not lifting or getting paid or making investments for 20 years from now when you may not even live that long. Its automatically assumed that your life is a mess and you are a loser in every way if you are not getting women. That you have to fix everything about yourself and then women will just show up as a side effect of being perfect. (TRP is not one hive mind but I do see the trends on a regular basis now)

That is not what pick up taught, because it is not the truth for so many men who are "good enough" but have no idea what women are attracted to. The rest of your life is at 75% and up, but women and sex are, and have always been 0-10%. Dating coaches are able to charge thousands of dollars for their services because financially successful men are clueless about this one aspect of life that is dragging them down. Feeling like you are unable to get a girl is also a huge drag on your life and can keep you from reaching your ideal self. It kills confidence and is completely unnecessary suffering.

It is okay to still want to have sex. You do not have to be perfect to want to have sex or to get laid some time this week. we are not monks. DUDE, IT IS OKAY TO HAVE SEX IF YOU ARE NOT PERFECT YET. IT IS NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL!

Not learning the truth can kill what alpha traits you have always had, what you inherited, your instincts from thousands of years ago. I learned from PUA that by talking and teasing and flirting with the majority of cute girls at my school I was attractive to them by having social proof and not being afraid, and not committing. Being seen with a lot of different girls was actually a good thing as a guy. I had girls tell me they loved me out of nowhere, and some of them meant it, I had other girls ask me to kiss them, and I brushed it off at the time like it was nothing. My year book is full of numbers that I didn't call when I should have. What would be unattractive in a woman was attractive in a man, but we are told that men and women are the same, and see stories and songs and movies written by women and betas where the men are shamed for doing what is attractive and good for them.

God damn I wish someone gave me "The Game" when I was 13. Why? Despite having so many advantages, I did not get laid in high school and was not happy. I had a girlfriend for about 6 weeks when I was 16, who was a year older and would drive me around before I could drive. She was more mature than me, she was sexy, and was active in guiding me to seduce her, she made some of the first moves. So before I knew much about attraction, I was the guy who was so "cool" that they were pursuing me, which is what is seen as the ultimate end goal on this sub now. *** I had that before, but the problem was I did not know how to be sexual with them beyond a certain point, how to escalate, how to close, how to push, how to pull. I had no confidence in my sexuality and thought everything had to be perfect like in the movies and porn.

How bad was it? I thought it was a big deal if you weren't able to find the hole right away, like instantly, or if you went to kiss a girl and your mouths didn't line up perfect, or that I would be too excited.. And people always had sex with the lights on and any little flaw on my body would be important, that she would not be worried about herself more than me. If I fucked up in any way, every girl in the world would find out and I would never be with another girl.. I also thought that a girl who liked me, if she was then talking to another guy, I should just accept that they were together now and I lost. The idea that someone else was trying to make me jealous did not exist. I had no drive to compete about 80% of the time, probably because I had porn to fall back on with zero effort. the other 20% i would get oneitis for a girl who was in a relationship. This is how bad I was with anxiety and finding ways that I would fail and could not be happy. I took something good and used it against myself. And I had no one to tell me the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I thought it was weakness to seek out help or try to improve.

***Looking back now, I see why I was not attracted to the women who tried to pursue me. Being aloof and uninterested is how their fathers were to them. They had to work for their fathers attention and initiate affection. Daddy came home after working on his career and ignored them until they made a move that he would notice. That is the girl who was always trying to get attention, and that is the girl at the bar who comes up to you who doesnt give a fuck after every other guy approached her.

What did The Game and RSD teach me that I needed to know so bad? and what seems to be missing lately on here?

  1. You can get someone excited, and they can like you a lot, but if you don't go further, that excitement will be transferred to someone else. Super short example: She was sad, you say some funny joke and make strong eye contact and give her a high five, now she is no longer sad and feels good because of alpha male attention that was free of outcome. It doesn't need to be from you though. She will find it somewhere else and it is now easier for the next guy who comes along and reminds her of your qualities. In The Game, Mystery describes this as raising buying temperature. Buying=going home with someone at the end of the night. Temperature=Getting hot from sexual tension and excitement. She is more open to being seduced by anyone, not just you. The blue pill lie is that she will wait around for the perfect guy, reading your love letter from across state lines and only have eyes for you. No, you turning her on created tension in her body and a want to relieve that tension. She wants to feel good right now, not in a month.
  2. Sex is her goal too, but it is your job to get there. So many guys here now think they can get everything on point in their lives without talking to women for as long as it takes, and then women will start approaching them, asking them out, initiating sex, and that enough women will do that the man will have a choice between multiple women and end up with the right one. The truth is this dynamic only exists in a place like high school or college, and then on dating apps, with a certain kind of woman. And if you don't know what you are doing, like I didn't know, you can fuck it all up and not recover for a long time. My missing game lead me down a dark path of questioning every part of my personality, when it was really just a few external factors, bad behaviors that could be changed, lack of entitlement and knowing what the fuck was going on. I was interesting, I was assertive and dominant, playful, etc. but the playbook on turning that into sex and relationships was broken. Porn made everything worse and is only worse today. It was bad programming. GAME IS STILL IMPORTANT. Lifting and making money increases your odds with women, but the majority of women are not going to approach you. Knowing the process and social dynamics is Alpha Male behavior.
  3. You will need to be able to approach. Always. if you want to have the most options. Women are not men. they have all kinds of mental processes that keep them from approaching us. In their mind, until you approach them, you are either in a happy committed relationship, you are gay, you look good but you are too shy or are a pussy. Maybe you just got out of a bad relationship and hate women now.. Or you are not attracted to them. Women are insecure as fuck. The prettier they are, usually they are that much more insecure. If they give you a smile and you don't go talk to them, their mind starts saying "well maybe he thinks I am ugly. I have gained 3 pounds in the last 6 months. Maybe there is something wrong with my hair. Did I have a stupid look on my face?" This is why so many women get stuck in the social media game of trying to get validation, people telling them they are beautiful, but they have to read it in times new roman.... THEY DON'T REALLY BELIEVE IT. They are not gaining what we think they do from it. One attractive man approaching them is worth more than 1000 losers telling them they are beautiful on a boring social media app with zero eye contact or an assertive tone of voice.
  4. Stop trying to become the woman and make her do all the work.. 2,3&4 are all the same premise. There is no end point where you become the hot woman as some kind of cosmic justice to your past rejections. Stop trying to become that. You're setting yourself up for disappointment. You may have some groupies. Do you want to choose from your groupies and still be unable to open a conversation with the stunning woman who is in the next aisle at Whole Foods? That just shows a lack of drive, a fear of rejection which means low confidence, and a general lack of awareness of the whole process. It is not hard. you do not need pickup lines. You can stick your tongue out and flick her off and then go give her a hug while you laugh and 99% of the attraction was just built in less than a minute. If she is not open to any of that, oh well. That's just one way to do it and you will just know by looking at her after you get enough experience.
  5. Clothes and shoes and haircuts are important. You can use these to your advantage, and if you don't then you are a fool. I thought it was some kind of character flaw for people to care about these things. That they were shallow and I should just wear what I want and would get results that match a man who knows what women are attracted to. I was fairly well dressed, to a certain extent, that I didn't look like a retard. My style was mostly shirts with old rock bands on them, car logos, a couple button down shirts that could have been much better. I would get compliments from other guys who thought Lynyrd Skynyrd was cool or who also drove a Chevy. But there was no sex in my clothing. It fit in with 50 year old men and stoners who think there is no good music made after 1984. My haircuts were weak and I waited too long in between. One pair of shoes, and one pair of work boots was all I had at one time, and would wear them until they needed replaced. They weren't usually clean. Nothing expressed that I had more than $20 to spend on any given day or that I was aware of social status. I didn't give a fuck. But I should have. I'm not saying that you should spend a ton on the best brands, but you can find a way to use clothes to your advantage. Don't see it as a waste of money. Being well groomed and well dressed are qualities of Alpha Males.
  6. The solution to getting hung up on one woman is to find/fuck ten others. The movies all show men who become obsessed with the one that got away, and then spend months "fixing themselves" and being a mopey depressed bitch to meet her standards and then convince her that he is good enough. And this is kind of what I see on TRP sometimes. If a couple women have determined you are not worthy of them, guys say it must be true and based on SMV, and you need to fix your broken self to become worth more. Go longer without sex and dating.. Ignore those ten women who would give you an abundance mentality and try to mold yourself into the perfect guy for the one who is actually good or whatever. A whole part of TRP is now a hyper version of rom com logic and practice. PUA teaches that you are already good enough to get sex and female attention and that you can enjoy those right now if you really want. Fucking or dating ten other women might be exactly what it takes to "win her back" or completely destroy the pedestal you put her on in the first place.
  7. Lastly, and this is what I learned from living with a woman for 5 years. There are 1000 different reasons why you did not have sex with that girl, and only a handful of them have to do with you and how great you are. For men, there are so few things that will keep us from having sex. We could be dying in the hospital and still want sex. Women are kind of the opposite in that outside of a few times a month, they have to be put into the mood to want sex, and that can change right up to the last minute(Last minute resistance). Your attractiveness alone will not be enough to cancel out other shit in her life that is making her not feel sexy, or sexual, or physically turned on. So your first thought should be that you are good enough but something else outside of your control. If she is afraid that she will fart on you or she thinks she smells bad, that is enough to keep her clothes on. She might be afraid that she will cry after sex or get a little too crazy and scare you. That is enough to keep her from coming over on day 3. She might have some kind of fetish and not think you are the kind of guy who would be into it. That is enough to stop her from giving you her number. Doesn't mean you should change yourself to a guy who likes to be whipped. (your dominance is not what this particular woman wants because not all women are the same).. Maybe she saw something that day that is bothering her. You are not her psychiatrist. That is (sometimes) the reality of the creatures you have built up to unobtainable status. 95% of it is not about you. So don't make it about you. Asking if you did something wrong after a certain point will only lessen her attraction.
  8. Because 7 was not last.. Do not get jealous and hateful of the guys who are good with women. Try to be around them as much as possible and learn from them. You might think they are stupid douchebags but maybe that is what you are missing from life, being able to look stupid and have fun without caring what everyone else thinks.
  9. Enjoy the ride. You never know that these are the good times until they are over. Give yourself a break, and learn self love beyond what you think it is right now. It's ok to want sex, or to not want sex, or to have it and not want it, to not have it and want nothing else... It's okay. You are not as bad as you think you are.

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Title You're really not that bad. The Red Pill sub is turning into a pretzel when it comes to meeting women. Younger guys on here are getting mind fucked if they read the comment section now. Here are a few things I look back on choking on blue pills that may be some benefit.
Author ebaymasochist
Upvotes 271
Comments 64
Date June 28, 2020 6:38 PM UTC (11 months ago)
Subreddit /r/TheRedPill
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/youre-really-not-that-bad-the-red-pill-sub-is.701122
https://theredarchive.com/post/701122
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/hhjqyj/youre_really_not_that_bad_the_red_pill_sub_is/
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Comments

[–]LiveAFTSOV114 points115 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

It is okay to still want to have sex. You do not have to be perfect to want to have sex or to get laid some time this week. we are not monks. DUDE, IT IS OKAY TO HAVE SEX IF YOU ARE NOT PERFECT YET. IT IS NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL!

I remember a time in red pill. About 6 years ago, in fact, where people would always remind new guys you don't have to bench 225 to start approaching women. You can get laid right now, as you are.

You dont have to already have 6 pack abs. You can go out and find girls who like you right now.

You can always get better, but that doesnt mean you arent good enough right now.

[–]Tenth_1014 points15 points  (13 children) | Copy Link

You can go out and find girls who like you right now.

If only I could pinpoint WHERE.

'cause despites my best efforts, I have yet to find that.

[–]mikrodizels27 points28 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

There is a baseline you need to reach, but once you are at least at that level(have a job, decent mental health, clothes that fit your body, a decent haircut, a friend or two, a goal or mission you can always pursue if all else fails), you are good to go. Do you have that? What have you tried?

[–]Tenth_106 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have all of this and then some. I'm "doing the work" for two years now. I also tried extra efforts, like learning social dancing, for instance, but I'm right in the middle of the two main age groups, which means I'm right in the desert. I'm 43, living in a small city. Not the best parameters but I'm sure there's places you can go and meet women without having to go doing random cold approaches by my own.

[–]luke-ms5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I got that but I don't really know where to go from there, what would you suggest? I speak to like two women in my day to day life, didn't had any success on Tinder (But I could try again), just feeling stuck in the current situation

[–]dbrockisdeadcmm8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Tinder is not rewarding for the average guy. There's been studies showing that it's one of the most unequal market places in the world.

Figure out what you like to do. Figure out what you're good at. Find a way to do those things in a place with other people without being too big of a douche (don't sit in front of your own building playing guitar every day or something).

Edit: context is huge. The 30 year old unemployed guitarist is going to be able to get laid after he plays at some grimy bar but look like a loser at a cocktail party with lawyers.

[–]luke-ms1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that's one of the big reasons I feel stuck, my hobbies are really damn boring and unnatractive to a girl if I'm being honest. Thanks for the tip anyways, discovering something new and doing it with other people will be one of my first steps after this quarantine is over

[–]Karastilov6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lmao man inknow guys who are like goblins and they still slay

[–]Geckobird2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's fucking impossible with this pandemic. Too risky to really go out and no one wants to interact with strangers. Dating apps are the only option now, but they're all trash. I don't really see any of that coming back for a while now.

[–]odaklanan_insan2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Dude, I have a neighbor who is by no means rich or muscular. He's probably in his early 20s and spends every night with at least 2 hot girls.

I suspect he's a bartender or dj and have a good social circle. So yeah, knowing the game unlocks a lot of doors.

[–]Tenth_103 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is exactly my point ! Your neighbor has been smart and set himself up in an alpha situation where a lot of women are here for meeting people. So of course he has no problem meeting women, especially at his 20s where people are the most open and social.

I'm trying to do the same, but : At 40 (where people are less social), in a small town (40k people), without an alpha set up (I'm not the best dancer around, I'm not a bartender, and so on) and with a lot less friends because I'm still new in town, not mentionning the fact that I work a lot.

Becoming a good dancer will ask me a few more years, honestly. All the pretty women there are at least with four years experience, so before that let us don't even think about it. What I'm looking for are social circles I'd be confortable with, so I don't have to be a thirsty beta craving for women. And so far, I'm still lost as where to look for.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]Tenth_101 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thank you very much. Those are all good ideas indeed.BUT...I'm practicing Krav-Maga. I'm learning West Coast Swing. I'm going to the gym since 2018. Since my divorce, and before COVID closed all of this, I had pretty full evenings all weeks. I'm also an entrepreneur, which means I have to work a lot (I don't play video games that much, well my kids are actually) and part times are impossible.

Despites all this, I did not meet any woman whom I vibed with. Some were pretty, of course, but... most are either teens, or older than 50 - or married. Once the hour or lesson is done, everyone get their stuff and leave the fuck out.

Also, I don't mix up sex and my company. If I meet a woman in a pro environment, then I'll treat her as a fellow pro and that's it, weither she's attractive or not.

Honestly, I don't know what I do wrong, but in more than two years of moving my ass, I should have met someone. And yet, nothing. Hence my previous post.

Last, good for you, honestly. Glad it happened to you, so please enjoy every moment with her.

[–]HorvathRed33 points34 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Good post. Mostly because some guys hamster too much into the "self improvement" recommendations and use it as an excuse to not approach. "Oh I still need to get a top 5% physique, then buy the right tailored clothes and shoes, the nice haircut, the adequate bachelor pad... Only then will I even start practicing approaching and game in general".

It's also a toxic perspective because it's literally a form of pedestalization. Game, looks and status are tools you should maximize for the best results possible, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't start right away. If old ass guys like Uncle Vasya can have a harem of slave girls, why the fuck shouldn't you be capable of getting laid some?

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks man. That is a good addition to it. Approaching is hard when you have reasons to be rejected. So it's easier to avoid the rejection and focus on yourself and procrastinate the pain of rejection until later or maybe never. But a part of game should be to risk the rejections and still find a woman or many women who can be a part of your happiness.

[–]chopping_livers4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I thought Vasya was in his 40's...

[–]bigtreetron1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The saddest part of all this is that the prospect of sticking your member a women is the main motivating factor to lose weight, learn a skill, and attempting to become more social. I'm not the best looking and neither are my female companions but I have no problem getting women the problem is (speaking for myself) once you get to know em you see how unequal the effort in the relationship is. I'd rather have a nicer bank account, car and house and 10lbs lighter and take more vacations than being a successful pick up artist.

[–]INNASKILLZ2K1842 points43 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I like this post. It could do with edit to tighten it.

But it points towards having a mote balanced attitude to life.

I criticize the guys who go on about 'Alpha mcfucklord' stuff, top '20%', etc all the time.

Creating these incredible standards just to be able to breath. I always think to myself 'yeah, you haven't had much success or interaction with girls, have you'?

And I like the idea of remembering all the factors why a woman won't have sex. It isn't always about YOU.

I see guys on ASKtrp who are like 'women would do ANYTHING...ANYTHING to be with an Alpha. She would move heaven and earth for a 'top 20%' man! You weren't Alpha enough, go self improve more'.

Like, wtf? Women are humans, too...and there can be many reasons, as you mentioned, which hold her back.

And this horseshit of 'dude, just stay on your mission and women just come'.

Huh? How the fuck they have any way to know you're on mission if you don't approach and talk to them?

And you're right, she may find you attractive and have interest...but she sure ain't approaching you.

Women need to be approached and are more fearful and risk averse than guys.

You do realise the majority of guys on here don't get laid, don't speak to girls or have success. They create a Simulacra style world here on Reddit trading 'knowledge' which often times is just not reality?

Good for you for getting a more balanced perspective.

[–]SKRedPill10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't wait to become perfect before even starting to try boys. Sure if you are really supposed to shed 200 pounds or your T shirt hasn't been washed in 2 weeks and no one knows its original color, maybe you should consider fixing that first.

Otherwise just to remind you guys -- You are on thread for sexual strategy after all. Tools are tools, it's your job to study them and master them.

Also let's not shit on a tool just because it isn't in OUR toolkit. A lot of guys do that - precisely because it makes them feel inadequate.

TBH the focus has diverted a bit after a group of MGTOWs and incels came on board and the average age took a nosedive. Too many posts all learning the same basic lessons for the first time.

You'll learn the lessons walking the path brothers. In time everything will find it's own proper place in your own life.

[–]no_its_a_subaru7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Finally some new content that isn’t written by an autistic wantraprenueur trying to use every word in a thesaurus.

I don’t get why people get all pissy when dudes just want to figure out getting laid. They get beat down with all the self improvement bullshit. Like it’s some sort of hidden rule or sin to want to seek out sex; pretending that if you are just “chad” enough stacies will just materialize and suck you off and ride your dick once you’re good enough.

Too many people focus and obsess on the self improvement part because it’s easier than leaning to game women.

  • Want to lose weight? Caloric deficit + exercise = weight lost. It’s math and men are good at math.
  • Want to make more money? Invest time into a new skill or improve a current skill.

Both of those are objective based plans and you get constant feedback to know if you’re doing thing right or wrong and the solutions are obvious and easy to implement.

Learning to game women is nothing like that, it’s a complete trial and error shitshow where the only feedback is yes or no. You won’t know what you did right or wrong and women are completely illogical so there isn’t an objective way to approach the problem. It’s frustrating and you just have to stick it out and “figure it out” because even when you learn something that works it won’t work on all women, it will never be as easy as calories in vs calories out. It will always be as nebulous as “you just have to get it.”

As a dude is fine that you want sex and going completely against the grain getting sexually satisfied should be priority #1. Being sexually frustrated will fuck with every aspect of your life and it will severely derail any self improvement you can any to do. All you’re doing with “monkmode” and all the “self improvement” mental masturbation is turning yourself into a eunuch.

It’s ok that you want sex. It’s normal that you’re fucking horny all the time. Testosterone literally drives us to fuck as much as possible, ITS NORMAL to want sex all the time. FFS evolution had to give men a refractory period so we wouldn’t blow all our seed in one place and fuck ourselves into a heart attack.

Stopped being ashamed of wanting to focus on sex and fuck the people here who try and shame you for it. All the self improvement in the world won’t help you if you’re a social retard who has no idea of how to hold a conversation, much less how to flirt and read women.

You can have the best product in the world but if no one know about it and you don’t know how to sell it then nobody will buy it. People buy “good enough, “average”, and even “shitty” products all the time because people know how to sell them. Game is literally how you sell yourself. It’s really weird how all the wantrepeneurs who have flooded this place telling you that “approaching women without an 800 credit score is pointless” don’t see that. Who gives a fuck about your credit score?! Are you looking to be a beta provider?! You’re supposed to be the dick women want to ride and choke on for fun; not the dick that they have to tolerate to get their mortgage and bills paid.

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Too many people focus and obsess on the self improvement part because it’s easier than leaning to game women.

Want to lose weight? Caloric deficit + exercise = weight lost. It’s math and men are good at math. Want to make more money? Invest time into a new skill or improve a current skill.

Both of those are objective based plans and you get constant feedback to know if you’re doing thing right or wrong and the solutions are obvious and easy to implement.

Learning to game women is nothing like that, it’s a complete trial and error shitshow where the only feedback is yes or no. You won’t know what you did right or wrong and women are completely illogical so there isn’t an objective way to approach the problem.

This is all solid as fuck and I thought I would probably have to lay it out like this as a response to some people. They can read your comment instead.

It's frustrating also in that women just ghost guys now and don't take a minute telling you why you might suck(if they're even able to figure it out) or that it's not actually your fault at all because they are afraid you will end up being a psycho OR they're afraid to hear some bad things about themselves in return. I think it's really fucking up the growth of a lot of people who need some kind of closure. Mostly the "nice guys" out there who already have it bad enough. But I guess that's what friends are for, to tell us our weaknesses and strengths

[–]Nihilisticmdphdstdnt8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Good shit bro. Advice from a practitioner not a theorist

[–]Redditorsheaven3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Great post, thanks. Your ideas almost have reminded crazy myself which wants to be lean and jacked before approaching women. In my subconscious mind, I always think that idea of getting shredded for better results which means getting the girls that I am attracted to, not for the sake of just approaching to the girls that are unattractive for me. Good points!

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You might be surprised how good you can do with the very attractive girls now. If you can maximize your masculinity with your body the way it is, as in look like you would do well in a fight due to having muscle under (less than average) fat she will view you as a protector. I had girls touch my back when I was still not lean and say things like "I could tell you were jacked" but I didn't have a six pack or anything, just filled out a shirt that highlighted my shoulders and traps. Besides that it is not hard to find many hot girls who end up with guys who do not match their attractiveness level but have other traits that compliment each other.

I'm glad you liked the post.

[–]theredfinance17 points18 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I think you misunderstand the core principle of TRP.

Sure, some people are here for the girls and sex, but the old dudes here are wise and advise all the young lads to forget about the pussy and improve themselves since it will matter more in the future.

Nobody said to go full autism and don't talk to any female while you lift or study. Just don't put the pussy above your future self.

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 21 points22 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

advise all the young lads to forget about the pussy and improve themselves since it will matter more in the future.

Nobody said to go full autism and don't talk to any female while you lift or study. Just don't put the pussy above your future self.

Ok I'm not going to pretend like that is not a contradiction, nor will I focus on it entirely. I'm going to ask a question.. for how long? Improve yourself for how long, and how much of your time each week? Does it take that much time and energy to have a couple dates and screw some girl?

It doesn't have to be one extreme or another. A guy spending every minute of every day improving himself to the point where he can't find a way to have fun with a woman does not have a balanced life. And there is always some new way to improve yourself because no one will ever be perfect.

[–]reciprocatingeagerly6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I really like your post and the replies too. People seem to forget that it's written right there on top of this website: "Discussion of sexual strategy". I definitely notice the trend you mentioned of watering down TRP into a lifting/entrepreneurship porn self-improvement sub and I'm glad there's some counter perspective coming in to balance out those two worlds. After all - this is TRP, not MGTOW.
Also those 9 points in your post are a nice quick refresher on trp/pua wisdom so thanks for that.

[–]Pycnostyle0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think that you and /u/theredfinance are more or less saying the same thing. TRP doesn't say you need to apply 100% of your focus to mission. Who would want to live like that, even if they could keep it up in the long term?

The point of mission is to have yourself and your needs be your primary focus. Because if you tie your happiness and life fulfillment to the whims of women (or even worse, the whims of one specific woman), you will lead a bitter, miserable existence. You should always have secondary pursuits that bring you joy, and women/sex definitely count as one of these. As a bonus, a man who knows what he wants and confidently strives for it is an attractive man.

But nobody said you have to amass X, Y, and Z achievements before you unlock the "I can talk to women now" gameplay. The whole premise is ridiculous.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Whats wrong with being here for the girls and sex? I had a chip on my shoulder when I arrived and there was ground to make up and theories to test.

TRP is the toolbox to achieve whatever you want.

Maybe its to play Don Juan.

[–]PopePalpatineTheWise8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP is literally about girls and sex. It's the truth about it and the social dynamics between men and women.

It just so happened that the best way to "get the girls and the sex" is to not focus on that and focus on the self-improvement bit - that's why people are preaching that. It's the people who say that "TRP is not about sex" that misunderstand TRP.

[–]chopping_livers2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

A solid post.

There was something minor I didn't agree in the beginning, but the rest was very good.

Thanks.

I started approaching this year - very fun, learning a lot. Feels good to know rp, enjoying myself a ton. It seems to be growing on people around me too.

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I started approaching this year - very fun, learning a lot. Feels good to know rp, enjoying myself a ton. It seems to be growing on people around me too.

This is awesome man I am proud of you. It does spread to people around you. I've found myself on numerous occasions pushing people, sometimes strangers, to go make a move. I don't care who you are, I am going to be your wingman. No better way to make friends than to help a guy get laid lol

[–]send_it_for_the_boys2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If only this was more common, I meet guys all the time that just want to compete with me rather than be friends. Keep doing you!

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

A little competition is a healthy way for guys to figure each other out. I guess you figured out that they wouldn't make good friends. It happens

[–]ToraChan232 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I hate approaching, despite knowing that it’s essential, because I feel like it’s giving the woman power over me as if I’m auditioning for her approval.

[–][deleted]  (2 children) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Funny man, that post about cold approach not working and how that guy responded to guys who were better and less outcome dependent is the exact reason I felt the need to write this. 3% conversion rate lol

[–]alfred3111 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great read, getting muscles will take a year so it's better to start your game and the best time is now. Trp mentality will give us the confidence we need to execute this.

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

As of 11:19 6/28/20 there are three comments that are not showing up.. I received notifications and then there is nothing there the next minutes so if I'm not replying it might be because of that.

[–]caoboi0251 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is fucked up and I'm frustrated. I'm one of those you mentioned above. I've been obsessed with self improvement. I've spent so many time and money so I can be a better self and I'm happy with the path I'm going. Sometimes I have doubts, damn it, all the doubts creep into my thoughts at times. Every time they do, they fuck me up literally, mentally. I've gone through depression and shits, but I'm sticking to it. Because I expect something better down the road, since everything was shit for me (went through 2 awful breakups within a year, got fired, toxic friends, unemployed, financial breakdown, rejections from everywhere which caused me deep into depression). You know what helped me to get up and keep move on and live stronger, and happier than before? TRP! Self improvement. And now you tell me it means nothing? Fuck, I dont get it why it has to be about women man? self improvement is for you yourself. I know I sound angry, because I am. I may not be explaining shits the best I can, and I really appreciate your post, I've read it a few times, learned a few things too, but the point is, whatever you are saying, you can be this and that in those 9 points, but you need to be better, to get better things.

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

gone through depression and shits, but I'm sticking to it. Because I expect something better down the road, since everything was shit for me (went through 2 awful breakups within a year, got fired, toxic friends, unemployed, financial breakdown, rejections from everywhere which caused me deep into depression). You know what helped me to get up and keep move on and live stronger, and happier than before? TRP! Self improvement. And now you tell me it means nothing?

I'm not. It means a lot more than nothing. I didn't write this to take away from people who need to fix their lives to be happy. If you are making improvements in your life then don't stop. But after a certain point, it is not your status that will stop you from having women in your life, it's if you are looking for them or not. If you are approaching them with intent to figure out who they are. And if you think they will make your life better.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Would you recommend any literature, you'd say has helped you?

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

The Game by Neill Strauss is what I referenced in this post. RSD Tyler aka Owen and RSD Julien aka JulienHimself on YouTube have put out sooo many hours of good content and Julien has gone on to do Transformation Mastery that focuses on unlocking and releasing past trauma and negative energy that influence our subconscious and limits on success. So I would say those guys have the best all around and I've watched them evolve over about ten years so I know it is legit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Nice man, thank you for your reply

[–]jojojijo3332 points3 points  (19 children) | Copy Link

You do know that blackpillers and incels consider us the largest PUA community on the internet? PUA will always be a part of TRP because it is part of what gave birth to it. Give your opinion but don't be a caricature.

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 10 points11 points  (18 children) | Copy Link

PUA will always be a part of TRP because it is part of what gave birth to it.

Idk mate from what I've seen lately there are enough people around here who want this to be a self help group for men who are so fucking alpha they have killed every desire to be with a woman. "ok you found a way to seduce women. But how is your credit score bro? I'm kind of worried about your priorities. Get that credit score up and women will chase you." Really not that much of a caricature these days. Kill the desire for what you want so you can have what you no longer want. Maybe there's a better way

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link

[deleted]

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

You got it bro. Best wishes. Let us know how you do. For real

[–]jojojijo3331 point2 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

You can't impose your priorities on people. If honing your approach game is your priority, you just have to search for the posts that talks about that and ignore the rest.

But you do understand that controlling desire/pleasure and going past pain gives you power, a powerful game included, right?

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 9 points10 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

But you do understand that controlling desire/pleasure and going past pain gives you power, a powerful game included, right?

Maybe to an extent. For some guys. But a lot of other guys have dealt with plenty of pain including loneliness and hopelessness from being socially disabled in regards to women most of their lives. Another six months without is not going to make them better. It further alienates people from the actual goal men have when they seek out resources like this sub.

[–]jojojijo3332 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I understand, balance is key, approaching women also work that discipline muscle. You becoming unfazed by female beauty or people's emotions with exposure allow you to have better social skills and game. Work and play hard.

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly man. And there is the difference of knowing something, experiencing something, and then being something. We might "know" what to do from reading it here. But not know how it feels to actually do it.

And it doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing or a chore. Approaching women and getting some positive energy can light a fire under your ass and push you that much harder to be your best self. Like "holy shit I can actually do this. Imagine what I can do when I take care of all my other problems. And now I can enjoy this too." And it is very enjoyable when you have the right expectations. You can't go in with the mindset that you will get great results just from knowing theory. That is the other side of thinking you will have all bad results because you still have some flaws.

A good exercise starting out that I just now made up is to approach five average or less than average looking women with the goal of keeping a conversation going for a couple minutes, maintaining eye contact, making them laugh, and then ending the conversation before she does. Literally nothing to lose, no expectations or outcomes to depend on.

[–]INNASKILLZ2K184 points5 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

To be honest, that sounds like a cope.

Are you saying holding off from women whilst self-improving gives a chance to go past pain and gain power?

I see the logic in that but there is no reason you can't have girls in your life whilst also doing difficult personal stuff.

I do the two concurrently. I have a hell of a challenging job at times, I push the shit out of myself in the gym, hell I'm recovering from 12 years in addiction.

I do those things whilst having girls in my life. You don't need to wait until some point.

If you're totally low level smv, sure.

[–]jojojijo333-1 points0 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

No, but I like your Cathy Newman style.

I also bench press, write code and cold approach at the same time. The rest time between sets is used to play guitar and solve maths problems.

Don't be autistic when fighting autism on TRP.

[–]INNASKILLZ2K184 points5 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Man, I can never understand what you're trying to say. You sorta go back and forth.

You appear very defensive of Red Pill, as if you're ego invested in it. So you sort of switch around to defend against criticism.

'But you do understand that controlling desire/pleasure and going past pain gives you power, a powerful game included, right?'

In response to the comment above you, it looks like you're saying 'controlling pleasure and going past pain' means holding back from cold approach to focus on other things.

I literally don't know. When people criticise red pill, you seem to take it personally.

It's cool man, if the criticisms don't apply to you, let them fly.

OP's post is correct, there is a lot of misguided advice in RP.

And if someone who can take care of priorities while still having women is a cause for you to have sarcasm, maybe you need to look at that.

I'm only giving you a tip. You appear reactive and ego invested.

It's ok to say 'fuck red pill' sometimes. It's not the God's gift of solutions.

[–]jojojijo3331 point2 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I hope that you realize that you are yourself a part of TRP

[–]INNASKILLZ2K182 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

As I'm a part of many different things.

One of Red Pill's tenets is to challenge everything. Be open to experience, try lots of stuff and to with your experience.

OP is recounting his experiences, which I personally believe is highly valuable.

Red Pill isn't about 'this is the way and the truth, adhere to it or though shall die a betaized death'.

Red Pill, in essence, is challenging all. Making your own discoveries and reporting back.

Yes, I believe there are many flaws in Red Pill. From some of the content, to delivery and the general environment of seeking advice from internet strangers about life.

The core of red pill, for myself, is not the proposed 'knowledge' in the sidebar, it's the essence of challenging everything until you find your own way.

Challenging many things on this sub will be the best thing many guys can do.

Not because red pill is bad, or wrong, but without challenging you are merely changing one of way of being told how things work (blue), to another (red).

There are plenty of things wrong with this sub. You do realise most of the guys don't even lift, including EC's? Many don't read or even have a long list of 'plates'.

My major draw is that guys want help. It isn't to 'uphold everything red pill'.

My draw is giving advice to guys, if that means coming from totally different angles and perspective, then all the better.

Be wary, be cautious, and always ask is the information you're taking in helping or harming?

Be open to other stuff, too. Always.

[–]jojojijo3331 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

"giving advice to guys, if that means coming from totally different angles and perspective, then all the better.

Be wary, be cautious, and always ask is the information you're taking in helping or harming?

Be open to other stuff, too. Always"

Voilà

*Edit: "The core of red pill, for myself, is not the proposed 'knowledge' in the sidebar, it's the essence of challenging everything until you find your own way.

Challenging many things on this sub will be the best thing many guys can do.

Not because red pill is bad, or wrong, but without challenging you are merely changing one of way of being told how things work (blue), to another (red)."

Expect challenge back

[–]INNASKILLZ2K180 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Challenge how? The OP has said his experiences, views and observations.

I've said it's good to be open to things other than straight Red Pill.

You haven't actually articulated a challenge back.

So by logic, are you saying that OP's experiences are wrong?

And are you saying being open to critique of Red Pill is wrong?

So far you just retort with a general defence of red pill.

What are YOUR thoughts, YOUR experiences, YOUR observations?

I've given plenty of my own experiences and thoughts here and on trp.red.

I consistently see from you only general defence of red pill.

I don't consider that a legitimate challenge.

[–]doubtless_abyss0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks a lot now I want a pretzel

[–]Jakesthrowawaytrp0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you. I needed this right now

[–]littleshepherd-0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Knowing the process and social dynamics is Alpha Male behavior.

What exactly is the process and social dynamics in your perspective?

[–]ebaymasochist[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

What exactly is the process and social dynamics in your perspective?

Being aware of her surroundings and how that will affect the interaction. Who she is with, where, what kind of energy is in the place(I don't mean some kind of mysticism, just if there is loud music or it's laid back, if people are dancing. Etc.). Your energy level should be slightly above hers and the venue. If you go right from a dance club to a coffee shop and she is reading a book, your high energy is going to throw her off. Same if you are in a club and have low energy and want to have a conversation while she wants to dance.

Her friends. If she is out with a bunch of girls and none of them are talking to other guys, you might try to pick up a girl who made a promise to her friends that she would not end up with a guy like you. She will feel the need to show her friends she can shut you down. At that point you are still a nobody to them. But maybe you can get two minutes to show social awareness to that, build some attraction and get her contact info for a time when she can focus on you. Or you grab some other guys at the bar to occupy her friends so you two can talk and they not be jealous.

"The Game" went into detail about how to handle the friends and get them on your side, how to give them all attention and prevent cock blockers from succeeding and causing drama that would ruin your interaction. Ideally you want to isolate her from her friends so that they arent there to influence her decisions to meet their expectations.

I actually had a couple different occasions when women would ask me to entertain their friends(who were actually more attractive than the girl asking) or try to hook us up. It's pretty cool when it happens. I've also had some tell me that it was "girls night" and then I go talk to other sets of girls and then come back and then it is cool because you didn't like freak out on them or be an idiot or act all hurt. You just move on.

Those are examples of social dynamics and how they change in situations. We have to know them and adjust ourselves accordingly when we approach.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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