From r/purplepilldebate, a comment here. From a man-brained woman (that's not necessarily a compliment), it's one of the best expositions I've ever read of how women actually think about selecting men for marriage:

it is NOT that women start looking for men to whom they are NOT sexually attracted to marry. it is that the ADDITION of HUSBAND (comfort) traits to the suite of traits women start looking for MUST diminish raw sexual attraction. in reality (as opposed to mentally ill mgtow fever dreams) women TRY to choose the MOST sexually attractive man who ALSO has the suite of comfort traits marriage needs, and when they fail in the sexual attraction department for whatever reason they go for "At least he will be a great husband and father". because to women marriage is not a sex party, its a family making machine

young single western women are looking for sex partners and BOYFRIENDS. a BOYFRIEND is not a husband or father to your kids. he is still a "lover", like a mistress to men. when women get serious about marriage they dont start disregarding sexual attraction, they TRY to ADD husband traits TO sexually attractive traits. this inevitably leads to LESS sexy partners. add too many comfort traits to the chaddiest looking chad and he will be less sexy. but that is a caricature, in reality the men who are suitable as husbands and fathers will inevitably have at least a slight overbalance of comfort traits. this is a POSITIVE for marriage for women, marriage for women wants a man who will stay with you when you are pregnant, sick or old, who wont press you for sex when your episiotomy is bleeding or youre genuinely ill etc. marriage for women is best with a man who is domesticated enough to tolerate living with a woman etc etc etc

the real switch has been from men trying to marry for a family to trying to marry for lifelong porn sex, which no generation of men in human history has ever expected marriage to be for. women have actually NOT change din their choices of marriage, theyve simply become disinhibited when unmarried

She is right about most things. Note that this does not talk about men's interests AT ALL. It talks solely and only about women's best interests, separate and apart from men's interests.

Note:

--women absolutely want Alpha Fucks in their youth. (And women getting AF'd in their youth is societally and culturally condoned, even encouraged, now.)

--women don't want to marry men they're sexually unattracted to, but they have to add "husband and father traits" to "attraction traits" to get men who are actually willing to (1) get married, (2) be fathers, (3) marry THEM, and (4) father children with THEM.

--adding beta comfort to alpha attraction diminishes attractiveness.

--but overloading on beta comfort is good for marriage and for women because it selects for men who stay with women even when it is very, very difficult and even when men aren't getting anything out of it.

--women absolutely will marry a man they're not attracted to if they have few to no other options and "well, at least he'll be a great husband and father".

--men shouldn't expect "lifelong pornsex" from wives because that's not what marriage is for. Men are being unreasonable in expecting "lifelong pornsex" from wives.


What this doesn't talk about is men's interests. She didn't talk about those. She's also wrong about a couple of things.

1) Women most definitely HAVE changed what they expect from husbands. Women want men to be utter perfection in every way. They want Chad to get a job paying $300K a year (but work only 10 hours a week), and stop dating around. They expect to convert hot sexy sex partners into hot sexy boyfriends, and then hot sexy boyfriends into hot sexy husbands.

This is entirely new. 50 or 60 years ago, women were OK with marrying Billy Beta. Maybe they weren't really happy with Billy, but they didn't expect him to be anything other than what he was - a workaday, everyday, ordinary working stiff who ran his own life OK, was mostly nice to her, didn't gamble or drink his paycheck, and didn't kick the shit out of her and the kids. She probably had known him since they were in their teens or maybe they met at college.

Now, they expect Billy to have the four 6's and a double digit N before marriage. Now, they expect Billy to look and act like Chad. They expect all this ON TOP OF the necessary "comfort traits" like conscientiousness, loyalty, predictability, etc. And Billy just can't do that. He isn't that, and he's never going to be that.

And then they get all pissed and disillusioned and disappointed when - gasp - Billy turns out not to be sexy boyfriend with a 9 inch cock who can fuck her 5 times every night. (And if Billy were Mr. Pornstar Hugecock, he sure as fuck wouldn't be married, much less married TO HER.) They expect the Toyota Corollas they can actually afford and get to perform like the Lambos and Ferraris and Porsches they used to borrow. It's completely unreasonable.

The usual "husband material" guy who has his own job, apartment, car, and bank account - the guy most men were expected to be 60 years ago, the guy most women actually end up marrying - is "boring" and "vanilla" and "not sexy enough". Or, she hamsterizes herself into saying she's "attracted" when what she's really doing is rationalizing and justifying her "meh" attitude and utter lack of any attraction at all.

The real switch has NOT been men marrying for pornsex. The real switch has been women trying to convert bad boys into boyfriends. The real switch has been women expecting Frank Fratboy to be a faithful husband and dutiful father. The real switch has been women expecting to domesticate fuckboys into husbands. And, the real switch is that every woman deems herself entitled to absolute perfection in their husbands.

Here's reality: Frank Fratboy marries Stacy and cheats on her with Becky and Jane. Alpha McGorgeous marries Becky but is an alcoholic and yells at her and threatens her physically. Harley McBadboy marries a Becky, but Harley has a shady past and disappears for days at a time. Jane marries Billy Beta, cheats on him with Frank, resents the shit out of him for not being Frank, and then divorce rapes him.

2) Women are crushingly unforgiving of ANY flaws in their husbands. Women used to accept Billy. Now, Billy's gaining 10 pounds is a divorceable flaw. Now, Billy not coming home at 5:30 pm every day is a divorceable flaw. If he won't play with the kids he's a horrible human being. He looks at porn even one time? He's "cheated on" her and has "committed adultery". He either works too hard, or he doesn't work hard enough. He doesn't make enough money. He watches too much TV. He's not nice to her mom and dad because he doesn't want to spend the weekend at their house once a month.

It was OK because women couldn't easily divorce Billy. Now, women can easily divorce him and use a court to compel him to give them an income stream into perpetuity. SO they feel fine with bitching and complaining at Billy all the time now, because if she gets unhappy enough, she'll just divorce him and take his shit.

Men: you need to stand against this. Either don't marry at all, or make it clear you'll do what you want and need and will not tolerate complaining about every little thing.

3) If to women, marriage isn't a sex party, it's a family making machine, then women need to start being OK with either (a) not getting legally married; or (b) husbands getting their sex parties on outside the marriage.

Women decided that they didn't want their men cheating on them. Women decided that they DO NOT like their men fucking other women. If women are going to take that position, then they need to be the sex partners their husbands need. They need to start fucking their husbands right and fucking their husbands whenever they reasonably want and giving their husbands the sex acts they want. Or, do not bitch and complain when those husbands go outside the marriage to get that sex.

Men: Either don't get married, or tell the wife, directly and bluntly:

"If you are my only sex outlet, if you want to be the only one I fuck, then you need to be available to me for that purpose, pretty much when I want and need it. If you are not going to do that, we are not getting married, or you need to be OK with a one-way open marriage."

As a practical matter, it used to be that most wives, past child bearing age, mostly looked the other way at their husbands' dalliances. As long as Wife retained the Wife title, he didn't shame her publicly, he didn't divert too much money away, and he didn't give her an STD, she tolerated Husband's philandering or frequenting hookers.

Not so anymore. Women have demanded that men never ever have sex outside marriage, even when wives refuse to give them any sex whatsoever. Women and society pressed hard to outlaw prostitution. Women and society have made it cost prohibitive for men to divorce and cost advantageous for women to divorce. Women and society have set it up so that men have no rights at all in marriage, to anything, or for anything. It's now set up so that men get no benefits from marriage, but men must shoulder all the risks, costs, burdens, and obligations of marriage.

Women, once again, have demanded, and society gave them, the right to have it both ways: "I'm the only one you can fuck, but I will not fuck you." That situation is absolutely untenable and cannot stand.

Men: Your wife either fucks, or (a) she is not your wife anymore and/or (b) you fuck other women.

Before the haters show up claiming I'm advocating for sex slavery: You're wrong. Men need sex. Wives promise to give that to them. Wives do not get to demand that they be their husbands' only sex outlet and then refuse to have sex with them. No. That's not acceptable. A woman who wants to be a wife needs to act like a wife, and that includes sexual congress with her husband. A husband needs to insist on that.

Also in before: "BUT BUT BUT you're just demanding that she fuck him when she's sick or pregnant or projectile vomiting or busy!! YoU ArE dEmAnDiNg A LoVe sLaVe aNd A rObOt!! YoU SeXiSt!!" No. That's not what I'm saying at all, and you people know it. I'm saying she needs to be available to him within reason. If a woman has a man demanding a Stepford Wife/slave/robot, then she selected poorly, and that's on her. If a woman's husband is demanding sex when she's exhausted or her episiotomy is bleeding, she selected poorly, and that's on her. That is NOT a flaw of "men" or marriage, nor does it mean a husband wanting sex is being unreasonable.

If a wife does not want to have sex with her husband, and refuses him, she needs to look the other way while he gets it elsewhere. She forfeits any right to complain when his time and attention are diverted from the marriage. Or, she needs to give him an immediate divorce and a fair divorce settlement, lest he make his reasons for divorcing her very, very public.

4) If marriage is to continue as a viable institution at all, there has to be something in it for men. There's nothing in it for men now. All the benefits accrue to women; all the burdens and obligations accrue to men.

5)

"when they fail in the sexual attraction department for whatever reason they go for "At least he will be a great husband and father". because to women marriage is not a sex party, its a family making machine"

This DOES NOT relieve the wife who selects a husband in this fashion from being a proper wife to the man she picked and who has agreed to marry her. If she is compromising so far down the attraction ladder to "WeLl, At LeAsT hE WiLL MaKe a GrEaT hUsBanD aNd FaThEr" and she's not sexually attracted to him, that's her choice, but she is not then excused from being a wife to her husband. She's obligated to sex him up properly, frequently, correctly, and in the manner he wants. This is particularly so because she insists on him not fucking other women and she insists on 100% full access to all of his time, money, labor, attention, and resources.

Men: Insist on your marital rights and do not accept less. If she's your wife, and she expects you to not fuck other women (guarantee you that's what she expects), do not accept sexlessness from her. Women who want to be wives must act like wives, and husbands need to make those expectations clear from the jump.

6) If she tells you what she likes best about you is that she thinks you'll be a great husband and father, dump her immediately. You're being settled for. She perceives you're just "the best she can do". She has few to no other options. You're about to be used and exploited, see your resources decimated, and left for dead. Have nothing to do with such women.