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The Disdain for Submissiveness and the General Idea that "Love" isn't Real.

June 3, 2015

I've been browsing the TRP subreddits off and on for a while now. Ever since I was introduced to it by my ex, who still posts semi-frequently, I've always been struggling to fully comprehend what it is you guys are trying to do. I see a lot of talk about "game", and this usually boils down to being confident and "just going for it". I'm all for that. I think that's the way life should be approached in general. Just be confident and the world opens up for you in ways you never thought possible. That's fine.

What boggles the mind, however, is the mindset that everyone has to be a player in order to enjoy their life. Indeed, if you aren't going around life fucking whoever you want to fuck and getting what you want, who you want, when you want it, then you've simply not swallowed the pill well enough.

I see sometimes that people come to these subreddits and ask for advice. Nine times out of ten, they've hit hard times in their life, and they're looking for a way out of the hole they've managed to find themselves in. I'm all for advice in improving ones life, and much of the advice is sound, but it doesn't take long before I start seeing talks of being "alpha" written all over the boards.

It's getting to a point where the only real understanding I have of TRP and altTRP none-the-less is that it's basically one big guide to being "alpha". I see people say that they gave up the idea of true love as if that's some kind of accomplishment. I see people say that they don't even care about being in a good relationship and just want to fuck the good-looking guys all day and they flaunt it like they've unlocked the secret to life. It's hard to watch, and while I understand some people are this way and are genuinely happy with this approach, this subreddit would have me think that if I believe in the concept of love at all, then I must be "beta", and thusly a submissive failure that gets stepped on all of their life.

Or something.

This also compounds how whenever someone mentions being a "beta", it's typically in the most negative light possible. Being a "beta" is like being a loser. It's like being socially retarded. It's like being an outcast. It's like being everything you don't ever want to be. Or, at least, that's what this sub would have me believe.

And yet submissive gay men exist everywhere. Gay men that want to be lead, and gay men that wish to lead them. It's a simple dynamic that seems to be half-rejected and one-sided when it comes to anything TRP. Most relationships have a man that fits the criteria of being an "alpha", and a man that fits the criteria of being a "beta" in them, for if both men were truly "alpha", there'd be a constant power-struggle and the relationship probably wouldn't work to begin with.

The more I think about it, the more I realize how harmful the "alpha" and "beta" mindset actually is, especially when you consider the fact that the absolute grand majority of people you encounter in your everyday life won't be thinking in regards to anything of it. It turns life into a game. Everything is calculated, and nothing is natural. It's artificial and all pre-planned. God forbid if anything came from the heart, we don't do that whole "love" shit here. That'd be too beta.

Help me understand what the fuck is going on, altTRP, because I've been trying to grasp what you people actually want for almost a year and I still can't wrap my head around it.

The gist I've gotten is that you want to just fuck all the hot guys, never fall in love, not get married, and never stay in one relationship for too long. Every single one of you seems to want to go to the gym and get ripped, as that's the most consistent go-to advice given. It all just seems to contradict real life. In my experience, there's really not a damn thing in this subreddit that's actually been observed in the outside world as effective outside of being confident. Being confident is the best advice this subreddit has ever given, everything else is just... I don't know. Absurdity.

The /r/becomeaman subreddit is a fucking laughing stock. I see people make topics about how they go to the grocery store and all of the hot women flirt with them and give them their phone number. It's the most obvious load of shit, and yet the comments are all "nice bro haha good to see its working for you". I feel like I'm being trolled in that subreddit.

What kills me the most is how some of you will speak of insecurities, when getting so caught up in being an "alpha" seems like a very insecure thing to be doing to begin with.

I'm not trying to bash or be a total dick here, I'm just so goddamn lost. It's like I'm being shown the holy grail and it looks like an ordinary plastic red soho cup to me. Everyone else sees the grail, everyone else believes, but I'm just sitting there, looking around the room, throwing my hands up in the air and going "are you fucking kidding me?"

So, what's up, altTRP? Enlighten me. It's killing me to know.

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Post Information
Title The Disdain for Submissiveness and the General Idea that "Love" isn't Real.
Author Narrowminded
Upvotes 6
Comments 4
Date June 3, 2015 10:23 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit /r/altTRP
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/altTRP/the-disdain-for-submissiveness-and-the-general.163365
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/altTRP/comments/38cmej/the_disdain_for_submissiveness_and_the_general/
Red Pill terms in post

[–]emo_geek3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The hookup culture is really getting out of hand. It's no surprise that a majority of gay men are perpetually single.

It's getting so bad that people like Dan Savage say that gay male couples shouldn't even bother to be monogamous in the first place. That its just a waste of time. Romance and intimacy have become non-exist within gay male culture.

Just because we're gay, doesn't mean that we lose our subconscious need to pair-bond like our straight counterparts.

The disdain for submissiveness is a fancy way of saying bottom-shaming. The problem that most gay men tend to forget is that gay sex just doesn't work without a top and a bottom. I'm not talking about anal sex, I'm talking about gay sex in general. There are gay men who love being dominated and there are gay men who love to dominate their partner sexually. Two tops or two bottoms are not going to work for obvious reasons.

There is more to being gay then just sex. We need to learn how to increase our value when it comes to finding a Long-Term Partner. There is this great post on altTRP on a self-help post for gay men that I really recommend everyone read.


[–]should_0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

if you aren't going around life fucking whoever you want to fuck and getting what you want, who you want, when you want it, then you've simply not swallowed the pill well enough.

nope, mgtow is an option

I think it's fine to be interested in a relationship. What someone would tell you here is, what are you looking for in a relationship? Amazing feelings? To grow? To be 'good' at maintaining one? For the experience? Once you lose the "why," or so it goes, then you're lost in a morass of feeling, and if you're playing the macho man and your boyfriend is the twink, that can be a problem in terms of making him your #1 priority.

To be honest, if there's a healthy phase of wanting an LTR that don't come from feelings of insecurity, I haven't hit it yet. Find the council of someone who went from TRP to happy relationship, how they did it, their philosophy, how they see it, what they wanted from it, what they got.

You're also mixing up beta and submissive. When we say beta here we mainly mean loser-ish, bottom of the totem pole. There are plenty of hot submissive men who are essentially women, in terms of: exercise ("I just run" god forbid), looks, who are really hot and dateable, and even a little clingy, but still high SMV. I've been making the move from this guy to muscular alpha though since I'm more interested in respect and power than love and someone else's mission lately, and since I've been seeing some more twinky guys. I wrote a little about sexual polarity in other AltTRP posts, particularly "how to fuck a guy like a man" (not sure if we're allowed to link within subreddit) talks about being the masc/alpha in the pair and here's a link to an article I wrote about the importance of a feminine guy in a relationship; like you say, it doesn't work when it's two complete bro personalities trying to take all the power.

Becoming alpha is definitely a way to combat insecurity as you say. When you're not that insecure anymore though but your clothes still suck sometimes and your hair is still a blob and you're just exiting skinny-fat, "alpha" cliches can be useful like lifting and being assertive.

I'm interested if this comment helped at all or if you're more lost than before, let me know where you're at since I wanna pick your brain and see if we share the same confusion, since I'm still a little confused what you're confused about.

[–]omnipedia0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

TRP is highly relevant to female psychology. Gay men are different.

I'm a very experienced dominant. In fact I've created a style that I've never seen others practice.

That doesn't mean I'm alpha. I'm not. Beta is not at all the same as submissive!

Betas want but don't have an idea how to get it. They can't control themselves they aren't aware of the power dynamics and they aren't consenting, they're suckers and losers. Submissive a are none of those things. When submissive a beg at least half of it is a gift to made their dominant happy. Submissives understand what is going on and consent to the power imbalance. I've had a submissive that was pretty alpha before.

[–]beastmoderage0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

As someone who has been in an alpha/alpha relationship before, I can confirm that there are frequent power struggles. These struggles tend to happen in bed, and they conclude with the strongest and most alpha of the pair going balls deep.

It's beyond sexually satisfying to out alpha an alpha. There's a primal pleasure circuit that fires off when you breed your nut into a rival and force him into betahood. And from what I've experience, these former alpha bros sure like getting dicked into submission by someone more built than they.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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