~ archived since 2018 ~

Victim Orientation

April 13, 2016

In my last post I talked about direct power, proxy power, and the way victimhood is used by the weak to garner more proxy power. In this post I'm going to delve deeper into the dynamic of victimhood because it's central to the nature of weak people, not just as a tool but as a way or orienting one's self to the world.

First I think it's important that we have a clear picture in our minds of what I mean by weak people. They can be men, women, children, gay or straight. It doesn't matter. These are people who's behavior invokes a little bit of disgust. These are people who rely so heavily on others to fix problems that you can't imagine they'd last long on their own. They for whatever reasons, be it laziness, stupidity, or neuroses find a way to live in a constant state of disarray. This quality does not even have to be fully pervasive in one's life. Sometimes you will find it highly compartmentalized. Other times it will spill over into all facets of the person's life. The central thread that holds common amongst all weak people is their desire to present themselves as a victim of circumstance.

The Victim Orientation. My statement that feminism created the victim status to increase their social position is a very rough interpretation. Functionally it works out that way if you look at feminism as a cause and not a result of victimhood. In reality I think it's truer to say that the victim mentality created feminism. Only a group of people who viewed them selves as fundamentally disempowered would see a need to change the way our culture functioned to suit their needs.

The use of proxy power is not limited to enacting one's will on the environment around them. Proxy power is just as often directed inward towards the untamable emotional jungle of the weak mind. Feminism is not just a strategy to enact external change to benefit women. It is an effort to create order inside the psyche of the woman herself. A victim by nature is helpless. A victim lacks control both of the circumstances in which they find themselves and of their internal reaction to those circumstances.

Lets take a look at an example: Mark is very mean to Sally. Mark tells sally to go kill her self. The normal healthy response to this situation is to conclude that Mark is an asshole and cut ties with him. The victim response is to internalize the conflict, to express a possible desire to commit suicide, to recruit others to build back up one's self worth and possibly take action against her aggressor. The key here is that conflict from the victim perspective is never simply external. There is no real external solution. Even beating the shit out of Mark cannot resolve the situation because there are no discrete instances of conflict in the victims mind. There are only small pieces in a larger puzzle of damage the world has done to them.

Problems will come and go in the life of a victim, but never get resolved. A victim may attempt to recruit you by extolling the horrors they've had to endure. You will attempt to offer solutions that would, were the positions flipped, resolve the problems. Instead of relief you will find these suggestions only exacerbate the emotional state of the victim. Offering solutions is perceived as an attempt to invalidate one's victim status.

We are all helpless victims as children. This is nothing new. I've made the parallel between gay men, women, and children before. I think it deserves some refinement though. Looking through the lens of proxy-power, the similarity becomes more viable. Infants are the ultimate users of proxy-power. They have zero direct power to themselves and rely on their mother for everything. Even one of the first developmental mile stones, speech, is just another vector for proxy power. As time goes on, they gain some access to direct power, such as the ability to walk. When this happens, parents begin to scale back the child's access to proxy power on demand, but they still very much live in a foam padded world.

Growing up is the transition from relying on one's parents to relying on one's self. Our culture has fostered a perversion of this development. Young men and women are brought up believing that the world around them is still largely foam padded. College gives and extended adolescence while providing the illusion of independence.

Men are eventually kicked out of the foam padded world bit by bit. They learn that no one will care for them once they enter the work force. They learn that they are expendable, undesirable, and alone. Those who swim do so by use of direct power. Women and gay men are increasingly allowed to remain in the padded world. They are the favored children of the inclusion culture, allowed to remain in the nest.

Even without any directed effort on a person's part, it is easy for victim behavior to get reinforced. When someone is seen as a victim they are given special treatment and told that they have worth. When someone is seen as capable an in need of no additional attention they are seen as aggressors. This ratchet mechanism warps the natural juvenile helplessness into the unnatural adult victimhood.

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Post Information
Title Victim Orientation
Author Jobby_jabber
Upvotes 10
Comments 13
Date April 13, 2016 3:01 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit /r/altTRP
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/altTRP/victim-orientation.163388
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/altTRP/comments/4ejoj5/victim_orientation/
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[–]Narrowminded2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I'd like to know and more better understand what you mean with your claim of women and gay men being allowed to remain in the padded world.

Your verbiage on this particular statement is vague and without any kind of proper backing or sustenance. What, exactly, do you mean? What are you trying to say? Are you implying that gay men have it easier? Explain yourself.

[–]wingedagni2 points3 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

Gay men lobby hardcore to be a protected class. They are in ~20 states in the US.

They want to live in a world where they are universally accepted for being gay. They go insane when people disagree with them or their lifestyles, but they have no problem disagreeing with other people's lifestyles and choices.

Look at the "problems" the gay community has. A shitty small bakery won't customize a cake for them, so they drive them out of business. A photographer dosen't feel comfortable taking pictures of a gay wedding, so they destroy his business. A pizza place won't cater a gay wedding, and they lose their minds.

This isn't the civil rights era. These are so very minor "problems", yet gays choose to make them into national affairs. Hell, the pizza one was completely manufactured. They called every business they could in the entire state until they found a place that wasn't comfortable, and then they claimed victimhood.

They want to live in a padded world where no one is legally allowed to criticize, or even disagree with them.

As an example in action, try having a differing opinion in /r/lgbt or /r/gaybros or /r/gay. I dare you. See what happens.

[–]Narrowminded1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I actually did voice an opinion on /r/lgbt a while back where someone was essentially offended that people didn't directly refer to them as "queer". My argument was that not everyone magically knows what to call everyone and nobody should be expected to walk on such eggshells. I was promptly banned within the hour.

There is definitely a lot of coddling and hand-holding within the gay community, but a lot of this is nonsensical in the grand scheme of things. In everyday life - in all actuality - none of this matters. Homosexuals being denied employment or outright fired is a real thing, and that's impactful. Bitching about a random pizza place not serving them - that's not impactful. It is for the business itself, but to the gay man it supposedly harmed, it is not.

So, you're right in that these are all minor things. All small things. Gay people are definitely reaching out and looking for reasons to be offended, but it just seemed like OP implied that the world as a whole is bending over backwards to appease women and gay men, and I just don't see that in anything that's particularly major.

[–]wingedagni0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

Homosexuals being denied employment or outright fired is a real thing, and that's impactful.


I live in a right-to-work and a right-to-fire state. I agree with those principles.

I don't think that homosexual workforce discrimination is enough to warrant protected class status... read the original arguments for the civil rights acts... they lay out the justifications well more than I ever could here.

Furthermore, such large strides have been made in such a short time in this regard, there is no reason to believe that this won't be corrected in a short time period.

Either way, it's not a huge problem. Yes, it happens. But people that are ugly also don't get hired as much as attractive people. That dosen't mean that they need to be a protected class.

I am pretty close to unsubbing from all the "Gay" subreddits. Which is kinda sad, but I have never met a group of people more intolerant and hateful. And I get it that people in reality are not that bad, but it's still startling and saddening.

[–]detachableeyesfrozen 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't agree with firing someone solely based on someone's sexual orientation but at the same time why would you want to work in such a hostile environment.

Calling someone queer? F**k off. These are the SJW crowd, they're obsessed with labels and identity politics. When I call myself gay, I convey that I am attracted to solely men. It's a statement of fact to me, that's all.

It's not a "lifestyle", its not a way to behave, it doesn't define my interests, my grooming habits. It defines that as a man, I am attracted to men, romantically and sexually that is all.

From my side, I'm sick of being told i don't act gay enough by stereotypical gay men, somehow I'm repressed. I'm annoyed whenever a clueless woman finds out I'm gay and all she wants to do is have a "girls night", wax and dye her hair. I couldnt care less and yet I get the confused reply of, "But you're gay?".

[–]wingedagni1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lol, yeah.

One of my female friends found out that I am bi, and immediately (within a week) mentioned that we should go to a lady gaga concert AND told me to come over and help her dye her hair.

Nope and Nope.

[–]flazznc0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

while i agree with your perspective on the victim mentality (even if it's nothing new), I do have to say your blanket statements regarding gays is hogwash. the definition of the word itself is nebulous and more or less an invented term for people who are attracted to the same-sex. and, well, good-luck drawing lines neatly there with regard to peoples desires, affections, preferences, etc….and don't confuse politics with people. i will say also, assuming what you probably mean by gays, i have personally witnessed people take charge of their lives (yes, even the "limp-wristed"). DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH BALLS IT TAKES to leave your bumfuck town on your own as a teenager, turning away from. after being turned away from, your family and the only community you've ever known, toxic though it is, it's all you've had… and then, make your way on your own and many times succeed in making something of themselves and their lives. all this because people won't mind their own damn business. this is no small task. yet it happens all the time. i suggest you attempt to incorporate this in your sweeping treatise.

-there could be some bad grammar/spelling issues...typing fast

[–]Jobby_jabber 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

blanket statements regarding gays is hogwash. the definition of the word itself is nebulous

I apologize for the short hand. In full I should have written "Same sex oriented males who utilize largely feminine sexual strategies". Often it's just shortened to faggots. I don't think the men reading this sub have too much confusion over the issue as most of them are intimately familiar with the type of individual I'm writing about. I could call them lemmings and the readership would still understand where to apply these concepts.


I'm getting a wiff of tumbler

DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH BALLS IT TAKES [...] being turned away from, your family and the only community you've ever known [...] make your way on your own

I once heard a story of a a young Ugandan boy who had to lead a mass exodus of kids even younger than himself across large expanses of desert to find a refugee camp. I can't even begin to imagine what that young boy must have gone through. I suspect he's the all time winner of the oppression olympics. After hearing his story, comparing two different peoples' struggle seems futile.

Do you see the irony of what you're doing here? You're illustrating how you have been victimized in an effort to prove that gay men are strong. "look how much shit I've gone through, how dare you say anything bad". And it almost works. When someone talks about their hardships in that way they are claiming a superior authority on a subject because of their unique and inaccessible experience. Only your personal anecdote doesn't really even conflict with that I'm trying to say.

If some one takes charge of their life by building their direct power, thats great! We need more of that. It's the much more common reality of people remaining complacent in their situation that I am describing here.

[–]flazznc0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

this not my story, it's just my experience, we have evidently run across different sorts of folks. i know some gay people who really could not care less about politics. im an infrequent visitor to this site and relatively recent (i work 2 jobs and the time i spend online in nearly negligible. but i was wondering, what do people mean when they say "tumbler" i have seen that several times. anyway, not here to argue, i do enjoy other peoples opinions though, from a personal perspective, i am not a fan of protected classes except for small children and i think it was your choice of that word that led me to post. take care


[–]AceofRains0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Tumblr is a kind of social network famous for its SJWs.

[–]wingedagni0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

the definition of the word itself is nebulous and more or less an invented term for people who are attracted to the same-sex. and, well, good-luck drawing lines neatly there with regard to peoples desires, affections, preferences, etc….

Eh. I have had so many gay people tell me that I really am not bi, I am gay. And that being bi is lying to myself and hurting the community.

In many people's minds in the LGBT community, there is only gay vs straight. Anyone in between is just transitioning to being gay.

Which is why you see so many gay people get furious when people say things like "masc 4 masc" or "straight guy looking for ..."... because those things are expressly there to distance those men from the archetype "gay" man. Hell, I have read several articles talking about the whole gaybros movement in an extremely negative light, just because they want to be a different kind of gay.

and don't confuse politics with people.

Eh. have you ever tried being a conservative or libertarian gay? They will crucify you. In my experience, gays are the ones that confuse politics with people, and even sexual attraction.

[–]detachableeyesfrozen 1 points1 points [recovered] | Copy Link

I can agree with you. One of my ex boyfriends were bisexual and a friend of mine turns to me and says, oh he's really gay... Yeah, I gave him an earful for his ignorance.

It bugs me some gay men can't conceive of bisexuals because they've never experienced attraction to woman.

Luckily I have so I can personally see it

[–]wingedagni0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

I mean, it hurts me more when they are hateful about it.

Which is a really stupid thing to say, and I never thought that I would be saying it... but I really thought that once I "came out" about liking men that I would get acceptance in the community.

Quite the opposite happened.

I now feel like I have to hide part of myself around gay people.

On the up side, every single one of my straight friends was cool with me coming out, and I feel a lot better around them.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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