[FR] Six months of work and DL4 issues

Sapphire_Jizz · 2018-01-01T19:41:19+00:00

it's only been a few days

Is this your hard no? Like...that's it? A few words and you're defeated? It's annoying when she throws out these retarded last minute resistances. I gotta blow through a handful almost every time like clockwork. "It's cold in X room. Don't you have to go? Not tonight. I just worked out." Actions, not words. Act like you didn't even hear her saying these or AA/AM them and push on. You'll find there's nothing behind these words. They're just that, words. And her fucking you in about 30 seconds is the actions. At some point, and I hope to begin working on this soon as well, you might get a to a spot where you can start changing that behavior too. Answering one with a light but meaningful "That's not attractive, stop". But until then blow through that shit.

I reassured her

How did you do this? What did you say?

"Why can't that be enough for you?"

Do you see the blame shift here? Rather than answering why, instead of doing nothing more than getting naked and getting fucked by you, which is also highly pleasurable for her (physically, at least), why instead she chooses to withhold the only thing that makes her different from any other normal functioning human female out there (exclusively fucking you regularly). We know why, hypergamy. But she doesn't know it actually exists, and would deny it anyway if she knew. No instead she wonders why you in your must-be flawed thinking can't settle for being a providing beta bitch for her. "Why can't you just provide a house, money, moral and emotional support, raise my kids, and allow me to do what I want? Why do I have to actually show affection for you? The nerve. I am kind enough to chop your balls off but leave you alive and you actually want more than that. For shame. How terrible a person you are."

You should be angry at that question. Angry because not only are you on the defensive for having a goal of a worthwhile relationship, but she had the nerve to ask it of you. That's some massive cognitive dissonance right there. She doesn't even know how much of a selfish bitch she's being by asking why she can't just have it all and give the bare minimum a fucking roommate would provide back. And she thinks she's actually being kind!

Angry yet? I hope so. Because then when you look at all those text messages you can really see what this is. And it's just another attempt at manipulation. "Oh woe is me oh woe is me, everyone has judged me to be not enough. Why can't everyone in the world simply admit I'm enough...then I wouldn't have to work harder to be more." If the shit stinks everywhere you go woman, check your shoe. For the love of god do not respond to this bait. You're on your mission. She can come along if she wants. You have absolutely no need to convince her to come along. If she want's easy, find a beta bitch, because you aren't one anymore. That ball is in her court though. She's looking for someone to bend here and you are so focused on your mission you don't even need to consider bending for her.

Word of warning. I fully expect her to keep pestering you for some kind of "answer" on what your plan is. Are you leaving? Are you staying? "Where are we going? Are we there yet?" But I don't even think she's in the right mindset right now to receive a vision from you, because she's still thinking about her her her and how she can make it easy. Any vision you have she'll simply try to pick apart and explain why it's not worth it. Do your thing. Also expect her to start attempting to bring in this for thats "OK I'll fuck you more but you have to..." "Sorry babe, I don't negotiate with terrorists". When all else fails, she sounds like the type to fucking blow up. Prepare for that.

SteelSharpensSteel · 2018-01-01T17:57:54+00:00

First of all, great field report. Good detail, and it's obvious you're doing the work. Much better than many of the posts that you typically see.

Second, around the rejection. My thought is that it has to be subtle, rather than blatantly overt, due to you inadvertently showing butthurt. If we watched this interaction and how it played out, I suspect that we would see the butthurt displayed in body language and tone. I would suggest not walking out right away, but rather give it 5-10 minutes, then go do something else.

Third, right now her hamster is on overdrive. She sees the changes, and knows something is up. Honestly, it sounds like she has some abandonment issues as well - perhaps she needs therapy. I would only suggest that you recognize comfort tests and pass them, don't forget to game your wife, and initiate and lead her to the destination. Slow your roll. Keep on your path. Her hamster might be lost in the maze - see if you can lead her our of the maze.

weakandsensitive · 2018-01-01T23:03:01+00:00

This is manipulative horseshit leveraging captain save a hoe. I very rarely call out women in these one sided posts, but this is a special case. Time for you to call her on her bullshit.

It's really simple - she decides she wants to meet your standard of sex or she doesn't. If she doesn't, she better not be salty if/when you get someone who does. If you're happy keeping her around for what she does provide, let her know. That's the deal - it's up to her to decide what she wants to do with the information she's given. You should be supportive of any choice she makes.

That's some pretty advanced gaslighting from your wife btw.

Also, what is frame? Frame is the reality that anything outside of your reality is funny, trivial, or irrelevant. Chew on that in the context of this FR.

StandardIlluminant · 2018-01-01T18:51:20+00:00

So once you stopped being a complacent lazy fatso you saw some gains, which is terrific. But she still thinks that she has the high ground in the relationship, and that she can get hold onto her provider with duty sex and housework, just increasing the amounts a little bit. Your last statement about being disappointed, and your trilogy of expectations, is shaking that little worldview of hers. Hamster fuel, but in a deeper sense it also has aspects of was what meditators might call an Insight Experience: something that starts to shake up the fundamental way you think about something, realizing that what you have believed all your life might not be quite the way you thought it was, and eventually, with enough reinforcement and reflection, can be a catalyst to change at a deep subconscious level.

The statements you list at the end, I parse as mildly shitty comfort tests. Comfort because they're not attacks at you as much as they're wanting reassurance about her status. Shitty because they reveal the depth of her expectations about what she needs to provide in order for things to work in a marriage, and are mostly frames as victim statements (poor me, I'm working so hard, but noooobody loves me).

Unsurprisingly, (and completely tangentially to your own progress) her last one (never enough for mom, friends, boyfriends) really amps up the lack of self awareness she has. Instead of following the MRP route of asking "if everything in my life smells like shit, is it possible that I'm the asshole here?", she just puts the blame on you for "changing" and letting her down, just like everyone else.

I would say you're on the right track. Keep reinforcing that insight experience for her gently with your behaviour, and dole out comfort as needed to prevent the subconsicous from completely rejecting it.

Sub_Corrector_Bot · 2018-01-02T01:01:04+00:00

I only have 2 points:

I think you nailed when you said:

"My marriage has three parts. You're a good friend, and a good helper. I also need my wife to be my lover."

What you did not say, if she cannot do that, time to make changes.

Next step is exactly what u/WeakandSensitive told you....

SteelToeShitKicker · 2018-01-01T17:36:57+00:00

Sounds like you need to be initiating more.

straius · 2018-01-01T18:02:51+00:00

Keep on keepin on, this is the kind of emotional tension that can really open things up sexually.

If she's not horny or receptive to sex tonight then something else is going on. Otherwise, she's in a place where the sex can get intense from the emotional release, her need to feel wanted and valued and your growing dominance within the household.

Are you dominant when it comes to sex? Hold her down, move her how you want her, pull her across the bed, etc... That's all part of communicating desirability. Women want to know that they can awake the passions of a high value man, bring his inner animal out.

Tonight will be time to ramp it up in the bedroom.

snatch_haggis · 2018-01-01T18:11:48+00:00

I think you're doing great, man.

You've said before in your OYS that you've been afraid to apply dread, and that you always swoop in too early with the comfort when she gets like this. I think it's okay to apply maybe a little more comfort (that's what seems to have the hamster spinning IMO) but to keep some distance as well. You're treading a pretty good middle ground now, I think.

As far as the content of the texts, acta non verba, and watch what she does.

The womanese here seems to be "all these changes are making me feel scared, and I feel afraid that I don't have control anymore."

Her old reliable Betabux's balls have finally dropped, and the comfortable arrangement of squeezing a nut out of you every now and then in exchange for all that comfort and provisioning is in flux.

I wouldn't engage with her about that directly at all, of course. General comfort, but don't hit those statements head on, that's a trap.

To the rest, just wait and see what she does, IMO. Biggest win here is continuing to be objective and not being ruled by anger. As long as you can keep that up, you'll have the upper hand.

SiegreicherMarsch · 2018-01-01T19:03:32+00:00

Provide enough comfort to avoid the cognitive dissonance from exploding her head, but I think you'll find that this turmoil is a relatively short phase of your RP journey. She will hopefully do some introspection and work on her own emotional codependency.

My wife wrote me a manifesto and taped it to the garage door...the first half was very reminiscent of some of those texts. The latter half talked about how she was going to start doing things "for herself" like getting a personal hobby, going to the gym, etc. I think she intended it to be a shot at me, but I'm over here with my arms up like "thank you God, it works". We haven't had this particular sort of meltdown since.

Rian_Stone · 2018-01-02T14:32:15+00:00

I wanted to proceed slowly here.

Why does everyone absolutely fear making their wives uncomfortable? FFS, do it properly, but don't pussyfoot around, you aren't trying to boil a frog here.

I reassured her

I love this part, you were starting to actually induce some emotions from your wife, sexual ones. then you proceed to work your ass off to keep them from resulting in sex for you. Self sabotage FTW.

But this morning she brings it up again.

And you talk, and you talk and you talk, yet the panties aren't off any more, and the dick is no wetter. Still think talking is the answer?

"I will never meet your expectations. That's why I know I'm not the girl for you. I'm not the woman you want."

wounded animal routine. You showed her that if she plays hurt, you'll go back into your hole. Stop looking at this language as exchange of information. she is testing the waters of manipulation, see what works on getting you to keep cashing those cheques.

"I was never enough for my mom... most of my friends... all of my past boyfriends. Now you change and decide I am not enough."

This is gaslighting. The fact you even came home after this is a big mistake. I would have gotten angry over this, called her a manipulative cunt, and gone out for a day. I wouldn't talk about it, any talk she would bring up about it would have had me broken record 'You don't want me talking to you about that dumb shit'. She fucking knows it's cunty, and did it anyways. To quote Brad Pitt:

Fuck you, pay me.

Only thing she needs to hear. you should be willing to leave her if she's low value, you should be unwilling to talk to her, it only gives her more words to convince you that you're wrong, she's right, and to go jerk off in the shower.

screechhater · 2018-01-01T23:43:15+00:00

You are missing strength in your frame, your abundance sucks and OI is pathetic. If I open up a picture dictionary you are the painting of butt hurt rejected boy that now wants to fuck after shutting her down for three years

You really crack me up with the walking away from duty sex. All you guys do.

What you stupid fucks refuse to identify is in “Dread” she is gonna do duty - starfish to keep a man. When you walk away, it’s hamster causing because you are sending mixed signals.

With Starfish or duty, It’s up to you to make a concerted effort to make the experience memorable, then she identifies doing her duty to keep you, she gets something out of it

In regards to her hard no’s- you give up easy like a zit faced teen boy trying to negotiate sex, which tells me your frame sucks and your kino must start just before bed, because you really don’t want to fuck as much as you want her validation

Three years you trained her for little sex and now you are working a turn around and the hamster is going, but your frame sucks enough you aren’t really passing shit tests

Westernhagen · 2018-01-02T04:46:30+00:00

I went too fast too early and scared the cat in a big way.

I feel like there's something really odd about treating your wife like a cat that you don't want to scare away. The analogy is from Day Bang, where it makes perfect sense. You don't want to be too cocky, direct, or personal with a Day Game opening. Does this logic even apply to a wife? You bought the damn cat, brought it home, and lived with it for years, scaring it away is not the issue. If anything this is a fat, neutered older cat that knows you too well and is utterly bored with you, and won't even respond when you try to tease it with the laser pointer.

Maybe I just want a better analogy than this for "don't go Rambo"...

Reach180 · 2018-01-02T22:32:12+00:00

Seems to me there's too much verbal reassurance from you and not enough attraction from her. You scared yourself "going too fast early" as you say, and now you're trying to split the difference with a nice guy approach.

All the advice about calling her out on her bullshit hinges on whether or not you have leverage, which you appear to not have. So if you proceed that route, know it's going to blow up in your face....you'll be sucked into a DEER exhibition.

I think you still have work to do.

The thing that really sticks out to me is the whole paragraph about the bed, the closeness to your wife at night. Think about the alpha male you aim to be in your imagination - Don Draper, Clint Eastwood, whoever....does that guy swap out beds so wife is forced to be closer? There's a difference between enjoying a cuddle with the wife, vs. needing it. If you're initiating the bedtime snuggles, telling her you need her touch to fall asleep? You're framing her as the mommy and yourself as the 8 year old boy. It's needy. It's unattractive. You need to kill it.

mrpthrowa · 2018-01-03T14:06:41+00:00

dude just fuck her already, she wants it bad.

DimHorseradish · 2018-01-04T10:25:26+00:00

Hey bro, the part about your wife crying and being reluctant to change etc sounds like what my ex used to do. That coupled with her mummy issues makes me think that she might have BPD. Maybe read up on it and then decide on your next move. Unfortunately, all the advice for BPD women seems to be to cut your losses and to run because it's too difficult to make them want to change themselves.

You seem to be in a similar scenario as my LTR where I felt she was disrespectful and so I just stopped replying her and ignored her phone calls (which did make me seem butthurt) and when I ignored her for a few days straight she just threw out the bombshell and wanted to break up (which reeked of manipulation in the power struggle between us, I suspected she wanted to make me break and be on my knees). I read up on the Redpill material and held my frame and gave her the breakup she wanted. I felt so much relief after that, and I realised the only thing I missed was the physical touch and nothing else and also because I could get other girls. When I interacted with other girls, I just realised how needy and insecure my ex was.

slappysq · 2018-01-01T20:01:12+00:00

What are your numbers for OHP, BP, and DL? Weight? BF%? You will have a difficult time going past DL4 if your numbers aren't up to par.

Title	[FR] Six months of work and DL4 issues
Author	Nec_sorte_Nec_fato
Upvotes	17
Comments	63
Date	January 1, 2018 4:57 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/7ng3px/fr_six_months_of_work_and_dl4_issues/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/fr-six-months-of-work-and-dl4-issues.205002 https://theredarchive.com/post/205002