Just starting out

February 11, 2019

It's funny, I started this journey in an effort to become a better husband and in the process quickly realized that I needed to be a better man. 37, married 9 years with 2 kids ages 4 and 6. For the past 4 years my wife has suffered from anxiety/depression and its hurt our marriage and specifically our bedroom. I wouldn't say I was full beta during the last 4 years but I was definetly walking on egg shells and cared more about how she was feeling then how I was feeling.

I read NMMNG and then MMSP and I just started the rational male. I've been lifting/working out and lost 10 lbs in 3 weeks (down to 190). So I am ready to dive into TRP.

My question for the group is what should I be concentrating on when interacting with my wife knowing that anxiety and depression could appear at any moment? This seems like a slippery slope knowing that I have needs that need met at the same time.

When she's down she isn't necessarily bitchy to just me she's bitchy to anyone around her, including the kids. She knows it's an issue and is in therapy but she's half assing it and doesn't go as much as she should. Anyways, I'll stop rambling. Thx in advance for any feedback and I am really excited to be a part of this group.

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Post Information
Title Just starting out
Author cmitchel0513
Upvotes 9
Comments 22
Date February 11, 2019 3:37 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/askMRP
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/just-starting-out.215410
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/aphf42/just_starting_out/
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[–]justpickanyusernameRed Beret19 points20 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

My wife had depression and anxiety when I first started out. I, like you, didn't necessarily want to make it worse. But, here is the deal. Why is your wife anxious? In hindsight and in looking back from my journey here, mine was anxious because she felt like she was shouldering the load (probably was). Why was my wife bitchy at the kids? She felt like she needed to be the enforcer to compensate for my lack of tough discipline. I rationalized that I didn't want to be hard on the kids and pile on when mom already laid into them. Why was she depressed? Well, she likely didn't feel like she was with a man that was worth the effort, felt trapped, or who knows what else she was feeding the hamster.

If you truly want to change this dynamic it will get worse before it gets better. Buckle up. You need to be asserting yourself more in the home. You need to be calm and stoic, but start shutting that bitchy shit down with the kids. I remember calling a stop to it at one point early on in my journey. She looked at me and saw my frame and she did back down. Not sure what yours will do, but I had already been becoming firm on a lot of other little things. Later, she told me she didn't like how I made her feel in that moment. I just let her vent, STFU, never apologized for what I did, and didn't say anything more about it. She hasn't crossed that boundary since. If she has approached the line since it has been easy to reign her back in. I will say that was the peak of headwinds in taking back control of the home. There was more shit going on and little power struggle/frame battles that I'm not mentioning here, but that was the culmination of all of it and when it broke. I did have a conversation with her at one point that I would be the parent that was the Batman with the kids and she needed to be the Mary Poppins.

The end result a couple of years later? The more masculine I have become, the more feminine she has become. I'm not sure what book talks about that, but it is sort of a yin and yang thing. She will counter balance your masculine with feminine. She is less anxious because she knows she has a rock and a masculine man in her corner. She is not depressed because she is getting proper feelz.

In the end, look at the things that bother you about your family and home life. Is it fighting in the home? Yelling? Make a plan and shut that shit down. How are your finances? You home and car maintenance? It won't happen all at once, but over time she will get the point and realize that you aren't budging on what you expect and that you have things under control. Lean into the discomfort and don't shy away from it. That's what men do.

The physically attractive and gaming side of TRP is important too. Work on those as well, but you need to take control of your ship. Extreme Ownership is a good book on the type of mindset you need here.

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The end result a couple of years later? The more masculine I have become, the more feminine she has become. I'm not sure what book talks about that, but it is sort of a yin and yang thing.


I too have a wife that suffers from depression and SEVERE anxiety. Like, crazy multiple panic attacks anxiety. Listen to what u/justpickanyusername wrote above here. He took the time to carefully explain my same exact scenario.

She WANTS you to be the man you want to be. She is tired and exhausted. You're not a good captain. Hit the sidebar and LIFT to become to captain you want to be. I assure you that if you even get close to succeeding she will feel the 1000 foot rope, a main event will occur and she will fall into your frame as the man she always wanted.

Do you want your wife to come to bed every single night and hold your cock as you fall asleep, OP? Mine does. I have given her anxiety a place to have escape... my masculine power. She can throw whatever shit she wants at me and I remain her oak simply swaying in the wind. She feelz that and embraces my masculine power and gives way to her feminine desires to be pure energy and love. She holds my cock every night now because she feelz it as a place of escape.

My wife is just if not more bitchy than yours. You should be thankful for that. She tests me everyday in the comfort of my home, and then I go out into the world and get tested again. Her tests are much harder and prepare me for the world. That's a good woman - bitchy, sure - but she's a good woman.

[–]wkndatbernardus1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

So, she just Kung Fu grips your meatwhistle when u guys hit the hay? No jerking motion, just stagnant grip?

[–]HornsOfApathyMod / Red Beret2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's her way of initiating. She is basically saying to me: I'll do anything you want tonight, just like last night, and the night before. But if we don't mess around or fuck, I'm going to hold your cock because I love to. Just show me what you want to do tonight, I'm OK with it all.

She's my slut in training.

And yes, she rubs it to start lol

[–]donmcde0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I would be the parent that was the Batman with the kids and she needed to be the Mary Poppins.

stealing this line

[–]hystericalbonding12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This thread is a good start.

Walking on eggshells makes it worse. She needs someone to be the calm center of her universe. You decide if and when that calm center should be you. Your state of mind must stop depending on hers.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow. Thanks.

[–]InChargeManRed Beret3 points4 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Does she argue with inanimate objects? (I'm hoping the answer is no).

Assuming she doesn't, consider that her acting out is some dysfunctional attempt at self-soothing by projecting onto or influencing other's emotions.

Being her oak is what she needs. Do you get upset when your 4 year old throws a tantrum? You shouldn't, right? Treat her the same way. If my youngest starts crying and acting up I will acknowledge it once, offer some guidance, but then ignore it from there on. If she wants to throw a fit in the middle of the mall, have at it, I'll be over here looking at shirts. Eventually she gets the point and realizes that her intended result isn't happening.

[–]NMMNG_11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My question for the group is what should I be concentrating on when interacting with my wife knowing that anxiety and depression could appear at any moment? This seems like a slippery slope knowing that I have needs that need met at the same time.

  1. STFU

  2. Read "When I say no I feel guilty" and start FOGGING, NEGATIVELY ASSERTING and NEGATIVELY INQUIRING.

  3. If it all fails and no one is in danger (the kids are safe with her), remove yourself from the situation and go to the gym or go to another room and read the sidebar.

[–]CrazyLegs781 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

My wife used "depression" as a scapegoat for some pretty nefarious behavior. I'm not saying she was or wasn't depressed. For my own reasons, and not to sidetrack, I'm still married. While first starting to get my shit together with RP, I decided to quit catering to her and just let her be unhappy while I made the best of everything. I took ownership of as many things as I could around the house and used my little free time for me and my two kids. I didn't vent or get butthurt about anything she did. After about a year of this, she now contributes more than she ever has, and is quite easy to be around now. She even started some cross fit style workouts after I began lifting again. I now struggle with knowing what she could have been all along if I'd only been a better captain; my fault or her taking advantage? Take it for what it's worth, your mileage may vary. I've got a ton of shit to do.

[–]dll1421 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

From my experience, I have suffered through a similar situation. I too was overly concerned about how my wife was feeling in a particular moment, then I went into "fixing" mode. Ironically, I have learned that I wasn't doing this for her sake, but for my own sake in order to make myself feel better. I fell into the trap of making my moods depend on how she felt and how she was treating me. THIS is a subtle validation seeking trap that men fall into. It's not obvious at first, but her female instincts become aware of it on some level, and she perceives this indirect validation behavior as being weak. Remember in her mind, she sees.... he's being weak... therefore, he must be weak. Then anxiety sets in and she loses respect and attraction for you. This stresses her out because SHE, by nature, is the insecure, validation seeking creature. She turns to you for this and she sees you mirror this behavior and it stresses her.

Remember, ultimately, any failures or shortcoming in any LTR are at the very core, a failure in male leadership. Be her rock and sooth her... listen to her and STFU. Reflect her feelings and let her know it's ok to have them. I was there personally and am recovering from this. It will take a while for her to build that trust in you and she WILL shit test you as you grow.... trust me!! I fell off this wagon and got back on several times... keep going

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I have 2 daughters and my girlfriend has 2 daughters.

When her and i first started dating, we put her oldest daughter into soccer.

Early into her first season before the actual games got underway i stressed to the oldest daughter the importance of being prepared, but shes a low effort kid speaking in a generalized sense so the suggestion fell on deaf ears.

Anyhow, fast forward to her first game. We're getting ready to leave, kid doesnt know where her cleats are, or her socks, and we had to scramble to find them under duress at the last minute, fortunately i correctly assumed where they were and found them in short order but this obstacle (created by HER own negligence) got under her feathers.

As we were entering the onramp to the highway (my girlfriend is not there because she was working Saturdays at the time) shes in the passenger seat muttering and thrashing about struggling to get her shoes and socks on, and getting real worked up.

Finally she screams out in frustration "Argh!!!! STUPID SHOES!!!!"and throws her cleats on the floor board.

I just started laughing at this 10 year old girl and shes like "dont make fun of me!!!". I gave her a minute and then i told her "those shoes are an inanimate object, they dont have feelings and they dont have a brain to be getting in the way of being put on....YOU ARE. Calm down, relax, and put your shoes on because your shoes dont have feelings to care if you miss this game, but you do."

Anyhow, long story short, its been 3 or 4 years and this now 13 year old girl is just as prone to childishly getting blindly caught up in her emotions as she was when i met her when she was 9. Her mother.....is just as prone to the same folly as she is, her sister who is 10 now is just as prone as her mother. My daughter, who is 11, is just as prone to the same folly as the other 3 girls, my youngest daughter, who is 5, is just as prone to being blinded by her emotional state.

This never changes. Occasionally theyll surprise you with the ability to see themselves from the third person, but these are fleeting moments, few and far between.

My girlfriend will openly admit this to be true and she occasionally admits that she gets frustrated with herself for not being able to stop herself when shes on one. When she does i tell her not to be so hard on herself. After all, if i was into dudes, id be fucking a dude, so "its ok that shes helplessly woman-ish" (lol i've literally told her this with her lovingly accepting it).

Stop worrying about the little girl thrashing about in the passenger seat blaming her shoes for the situation she blindly puts herself in and understand that your role as a man is not to get caught up blinded by the first person perspective of your feels, her feels, or anyone else's fucking feels.

One of you children needs to have that Lion-O sight beyond sight, and be the adult here. Guess which of you is not equipped to do so?

[–]gettingmymojobackRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This type of question comes up a lot, “my wife is dealing with xyz, how do I adjust my behaviour to handle my particular set of circumstances?”

The answer is you don’t change anything. Follow the sidebar. It just works.

The last year has been rough for my wife, dealing with loss, depression and more recently fairly serious health issues. During this time I’ve changed nothing. Working on being the best version of myself and following my MAP is beneficial and attractive, not just to her, but to anyone I allow into my life.

Without MRP I would be running around like a bitch trying to fix her shit and have her hating me for it every step of the way. Instead I have a wife who knows she has a man she can lean on when she needs it, but who isn’t smothering her when she needs her space because of my own need for validation.

Just trusting in the process and following the path works. For example, after a rough week (for her) I came home to find her asking me to get rid of the kids for a bit because she was craving me inside her. Despite all the issues she’s going through, she still makes sure my needs are met. Her issues are her issues and she knows it.

Get on the path, follow the sidebar and have the resolve to see it through. You’re going to find out that either things improve and she follows, or things don’t and you are in a position to choose your path forward.

[–]screechhaterRed Beret1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Quit the mind fuck and stay with the plan.

Just a quick tip- depression and anxiety comes from her having to shoulder all the parts of the relationship you aren’t handling.

Get back to living as if you were single. So I ask, if you were single would her anxiety bullshit, be your problem or have any bearing on you ?

Many of you come here realizing, only after serious work she wants a real fucking man. In every single category. Especially one that knows exactly what he wants. And, is not afraid to go after it

[–]MrChad_ThundercockBig Red Machine1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“ it’s funny..”

It’s not funny at all faggot. Stop walking on egg shells.

“what should I be concentrating on when interacting with my wife...”

You are the Prize and your own mental point of origin. She’s just mirroring you- piece of shit boring beta.

“I am really excited to be a part of this group.”

This isn’t a men’s club homo.
You better read ==> and put in the work.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your wife sounds like mine. I read a book called "Stop walking on eggshells" which helped me get some perspective. I doubt its RP approved, but it was decent.

DM me if you want.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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