Marriage without the Paperwork?

CaliEd256 · 2019-01-03T15:05:10+00:00

Side Note = There is no common law marriage in my state.

Tbonesupreme · 2019-01-03T18:08:42+00:00

You say you'll never sign paperwork... but what do you think a mortgage is?

I'd be concerned with having shared assets with no legal protection.

If the decision to buy a house together has already been made, what exactly are you risking by getting married? Unless you live in Washington State, I don't think you're in danger of paying child support for her kids. Alimony can be covered by the prenup. Really, you're just risking the cost of a lawyer, but if you pay for the lesser cost lawyer up front, a prenup may be able to settle a lot of the normal divorce litigation pre-marriage.

I also was a single dad (two kids) and my wife was a single mom (two kids). I understand your point about the value she brings as a replacement mother. My situation was easier than yours, though, because her income is 5x mine. She still asks for permission to spend her money, though. My marriage is great, thus far, but I come here often as a reminder to keep my pimp hand strong. With the income disparity, I need to be superman to keep her in a submissive state. I don't know if I could take on dependents. Best of luck.

Frosteecat · 2019-01-03T15:06:49+00:00

Sounds like you are inching deeper into a legal commitment despite your intentions and external front.

j_arbuckle2012 · 2019-01-03T15:30:02+00:00

Co-habitate if it makes sense to you. You don't need permission from us to fuck up your life.

She's got a failed marriage already on the books. Co-habitation is marriage. Full-stop. Why would you think she's in any way capable of having a sucessful marriage again? Also 6 kids in a mixed family scenario. Why do you want that headache? Fuck her, tell her you love her, do all the kinky fetish sex you can, but keep her at arms length.

Kpwn88 · 2019-01-03T21:12:31+00:00

Not many states still have common law marriage, but there is a caveat. One that I would bet my bottom dollar your LTR knows about. I'm no lawyer, but it goes something like this: in the event a couple proclaims they are married i.e. calls each other husband and wife you can still be on the hook for palimony.

The ceremony will be recorded. She will post married as her facebook status and call you her husband all over Instagram. You will be married according to court precedent and the white knight judge that wants to virtue signal by nailing you to a cross.

I expect the tests to increase when we move in together.

That's huge red flag and you want to ignore it? Trust your gut, you fucking moron. You're already starting to lose frame. You told her the rules in the beginning, now you are changing them. It's not called "betaization by a thousand concessions" for nothing.

On second thought, go ahead, bro. You should give in and marry a woman on her terms. It'll work, trust me.

UEMcGill · 2019-01-03T15:58:35+00:00

I will, however, think about giving you the wedding, the dress, the ring, but I will NEVER sign paperwork.

Give freely because you can, and only because you have no expectations in return. If you can't give her this, then don't. She's made her choice, knowing the situation, she can make her choice knowing the situation going forward.

You can be an Alpha Provider and give her what she wants. You just need to do it from a place of leadership, not from compliance.

GroundbreakingDevil · 2019-01-03T16:54:39+00:00

Even without a legal marriage contact or common law marriage in your state, cohabitation puts you into a legally vulnerable position. Being on a mortgage with her even more so.

At the very least you owe it to yourself to talk to a local attorney and get a consultation to determine the risks so you can make a rational, rather that emotional, decision.

She's middle aged, post wall, with three fuck trophys that need a new dad. She ain't with you because she wants your dick, she's with you because she wants your resources.

I'd bet money that you'll get fucked over whether you sign marriage papers or not. Either you cave and wife her up eventually, in which case you're proper- fucked; or she gets tired of you refusing to and you end up paying for her house when you break up because she finds a guy that will.

Edit: a wedding is essentially a party that advertises that she's got you on lockdown, providing her with validation and a social proof boost with her friends and family, just like a big rock on an engagement ring. Even if you go through with buying a house and moving in together, followed by a "wedding", she's not going to be satisfied, because he "wedding" and "marriage" to you is a fraud. She'll know it, her friends and family will know it, and I'd wager she'll come to hate you for it.

Kpwn88 · 2019-01-03T21:20:29+00:00

We both have full custody of three kids, so six kids total, both divorced. I make $80k, she makes $45k.

So... how are you splitting the bills? And certainly don't combine any accounts. Seems like a ripe scenario for that 50/50 b.s. to slide away into support. Whose name will the house be in?

"Well she makes a point that I make more so why shouldn't she pay/buy less? I am the man right?"

And if you're thinking you're locking her in on any level by this...please re-examine your motives and realize it's the other way around.

Financially this has to make sense long term to you and your children with minimal entanglements. Signing a mortgage with someone is an entanglement that may require legal action to undo. Had a friend discover RP too late (after buying a house with a girlfriend when he was in a vulnerable way after his wife died). Cost him a lot of time and headaches to get out and it was only slightly antagonistic.

Yes, maybe you don't want to go in thinking of your out, but if you don't you'll be in a shit situation to do so later.

So ...sounds like a great situation for her.

But no, this isn't marriage without the paperwork (unless your state makes it so, which you said it doesn't). Marriage is the paperwork. This is just entanglement that could lead to property specific paperwork or a lot of moving boxes.

EDIT: Am a bit ignorant of the Palimony predicament. So, yes, you need to sober yourself up to that legal barb as well.

Big_Daddy_PDX · 2019-01-04T07:24:38+00:00

Yup. A buddy of mine held this stance. Even went as far as buying wedding invitations to send out. He’s a contractor with his own business and pulls in about $130K. She was a hairdresser or teacher pulling in about $32K. She wanted marriage and her name on the house deed. He was a strong no “I’ve already given half my shit to someone I not like; not doing it again”. Held his frame. So they aren’t together anymore. Had to move her two kids out of the house and all.

Edit: a great real world example of holding your frame. His confidence showed that she was not worthy of the prize and he avoided the heavy potential for a future divorce rape.

Spudjurgens · 2019-01-05T00:08:24+00:00

Do you have a plan for if she quits her job to be a stay at home mom, and you're living on your salary alone?

SteelSharpensSteel · 2019-01-03T16:01:05+00:00

Breaking a Iron Rule of Tomassi here.

FlyingSexistPig · 2019-01-03T16:06:21+00:00

Could you walk away?

How hard would it be?

It sounds like if things went south, it would be very very hard for you to walk away from this relationship.

screechhater · 2019-01-04T01:38:39+00:00

I’m looking at as a win.

If your kids need a mother and this LTR is up to the task and you for hers, then go to it.

In the grand scheme of things everyone will get attached

Stay in Frame and keep your ideals intact. 6 kids is a lot. I would definitely be planning a lot more of my life out everyday with six of them. Don’t forget you hand an LTR in all of this and make sure you are fucking.

Loudandboisterous123 · 2019-01-04T12:35:05+00:00

I would like to establish some hard facts to make sure my advice is applicable.

If I understand it correctly your only concern about this and why you're posting here is about protecting yourself and your kids in case things go south?

'I assume you'd want to do that in the easiest way possible?

Since you've clearly established that your decision is firm trying to talk you out of it is futile?

You care about this woman's wants enough to give her a wedding, it's the legal side (only) that gives you trepidation?

You're buying a house together which will require contracts (mortgage) and financial partnership?

You have to maintain everything in your frame (given)?

You're only against the legal marriage as it hinders your ability to protect yourself?

I am no attorney but I would think the easiest and most obvious way to go about this would be to actually get legally married but with an an air tight pre nuptial agreement, it mitigates your concerns as much as is legally possible. (Even pre nuptials aren't 100 percent bulletproof) It's also fairly common.

It gives her what she wants but more importantly what you ultimately want, the mitigation of risk.

If your leadership is as strong as you say she should be willing to agree to the terms. Your reasoning is justified by your past and it would also protect her if you become an unacceptable liability to her.

It would also still be in your frame as you came to the decision yourself to best protect your interest while considering your first mates interests and wants.

Stop making this more complicated than it has to be. Marry her but cover your ass with the pre nump, control finances 100 percent but do not merge accounts at all, keep yours yours and hers hers.

And continue to fuck her good. (Given)

red-sfpplus · 2019-01-03T15:22:20+00:00

$80K is beta bux?

Where the fuck do you live? Rural Iowa?

That is starting salary for idiots here in DFW.

Faggot.

mrssmithhh · 2019-01-03T17:55:53+00:00

I understand your hesitation, but that stats are pretty clear about the poor outcome of cohabitation. Think of it this way - it's like telling a person that they're good enough for you to pretend to commit to, but only as long as you have an out and they're willing to be discarded when things are inconvenient. Not very flattering, and not a good recipe for building mutual love and admiration.

As scared as you are of getting into a bad relationship, she's probably just as scared as losing another relationship. You have your needs, but she also has hers. Not being married is a serious dis for a woman, and a special type of humiliation. It's probably causing her a lot of internal pain. I 100% don't believe that a legal contract is the same thing as a marriage of the heart and soul, but you have to ask yourself why you don't trust your legal future with this woman. IF she trusted you 100% she wouldn't really care too much about being legally bound, and if you trusted her 100% you wouldn't care about remaining legally free.

Don't move in with her if you're not willing to marry her. It's really a big slap in that face, and the only way she's going to be able to deal with it is to either completely give up all her own self-respect and accept that she is going to have to live in constant humiliation while serving and loving the person who treats her so lowly, or to turn all of her frustration and hurt onto you in the form of lots of crazy tests. It's just a recipe for an unhappy and dishonest relationship. Not gonna say it can't be saved, but it would take an incredible amount of work to right all the wrongs.

Either she's good enough to marry or she's not. Don't try to get as close to marriage as possible without actually marrying. Either do or don't.

Intellectualbeing93 · 2019-01-04T01:59:12+00:00

Dude you don’t need a piece paper to say you love someone. It’s a lose, lose situation here. Use logic. Think about it.. You have a hell of a lot more to lose and she has everything to gain. Don’t let your foolish emotions fool you into doing something YOU WILL regret later on. THANK ME LATER.

Redpillbrigade17 · 2019-01-05T02:39:22+00:00

Have you considered a cohabitation agreement? Who will be paying what bills? If you’re buying who is putting up the cash downpayment?

Also have you considered renting a larger place for a couple years to really see what living with her would be like ? Then if buying makes sense you can go do that.

And what is it exactly that moving in together will do for you that will be net positive in your life vs the status quo? Assume you have answered that question for yourself .

wkndatbernardus · 2019-01-06T06:56:09+00:00

I don't understand this shit about your kids needing a mother figure to "look up to." I can't think of one woman I look up to. The father is the crucial piece in child rearing and can do anything a mom can do, better (outside of breastfeeding and pushing it out her snatch). Just look in our prison system to see the effect of single mothering on our society.

BostonBrakeJob · 2019-01-03T23:06:10+00:00

“I got burned in my last divorce, and I will never put myself, or my kids, in that vulnerable of a position ever again...."

Then proceed to put yourself, and your kids, in another vulnerable ass situation....?

"I'm never getting married again." should be your only serious reply, every other time you crack a fucking joke about it or ignore that shit.

You told her waaaay too fucking much. She is a woman. She will manipulate to get what she wants. You should know this. So you give her a list of your fears (weaknesses, that she can and will use against you), try to compromise with a fake wedding (to appease her.), and not only consider cohabitating....but putting her name on the mortgage to boot?!

You, sir, fucked this allllll the way up.

Instead of asking yourself, or us, for a post-game breakdown, you need to be asking yourself why you don't have the balls to state your position without DEERing, and why you get so uncomfortable when she brings it up.

Or.... horseshit yourself all the way into (what will eventually become) another marriage or a way-too-fucking-messy breakup.

No one cares.

Title	Marriage without the Paperwork?
Author	CaliEd256
Upvotes	12
Comments	118
Date	January 3, 2019 2:49 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askMRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/ac6cyl/marriage_without_the_paperwork/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/marriage-without-the-paperwork.203700 https://theredarchive.com/post/203700