~ archived since 2018 ~

You’re dismissive. Apologize to me!

January 4, 2020
2 upvotes

35 yrs old, Together for 7 married for 4, one 3 year old daughter. 6’3, 207lbs, BF: 12-14%, Squat: 305 x5, OHP: 155 x5, Rows: 245 x5, Bench: 245 x5, Deadlift: 335 x5.

(Through the rabbit hole of Steel’s detailed guide and links within, NMMNG x2, WISNIFG, MMSLP, TWOTSM x2, BP-professor’s YouTube series. Can’t Hurt Me by David Goggins <—that’s a bad motherfucker! Give him a listen. I do mostly audiobooks in the gym.)

My goals are to establish and hold a motherfucker of a frame in life, eliminate my flooding, implement stoicism, covertly display outcome independence and find the best formula for Alpha + Beta = Oak. I’m shooting for the Family Alpha. I know it’s a long fucking shot, but I’m going for it.

I’m with a sexually submissive woman. I’ve never paid attention but it bleeds to our everyday dynamic. My decisiveness and leadership has been constantly summoned for years with “What do you want me to wear? What do you want me to cook? Where should we eat? etc.” I failed all those by letting her decide on her own by telling her that I don’t care. Now that I’m showing my presence and leadership in the relationship, things have been better. I’ve been passing the opportunities to lead the family but sometimes I hit some bumps and it’s my fault for allowing her to be the decision maker for 4 years.

For the most part things are going good!

The issue I have is some angles of frame I’m trying to hold is offensive to my wife at times. Certain aspects of my assertiveness, change of my ship’s course and enforcement of boundaries are sometimes met with accusations of being dismissive.

The current marital topic RIGHT NOW is about me picking up overtime to put money in my pocket outside our regular finances that pays most of the bills and puts most of the food on the table. Nothing crazy. Just ME, using MY OWN time, to work MY OWN job to put play money in MY pocket so I don’t tap into the funds for the household. She thinks I should also put that money in the joint account that she mainly manages.

I’m getting both shit and comfort tests under the guise of “just because it’s not your concern, it doesn’t mean you can dismiss mine.” “You’re disrespecting me.” “I’ve been arguing with myself for a day because you’ve been dismissing me.” “You need to apologize to me.” “The way you’ve been treating/talking to me is unacceptable.”

With the reactions I’m getting, you would think I’m having diarrhea of the mouth. I’m not. All I’ve given are a very few “No”, “I hear you”, “I’m not doing that”, and “I love you, I’m moving forward from this discussion.” I also don’t apologize anymore when she’s butt-hurt from me saying “no” or for rocking the boat when it needs rocking.

I want some guidance on how to navigate these reactions. Especially the complaints on being dismissive and being compelled to apologize under the guise of comfort test. When compelled to apologize, I simply smile and say “I’m not apologizing.” because I don’t think I should apologizing for calmly saying “I know you disagree, but I’m going to work extra to have extra cash in hand. It’s what I’m going to do.” Am I handling that correctly?

With the accusations of being dismissive... I STFU and look at her like I’m brain dead because I literally get stuck like a retard knowing I really am being dismissive. How do/did you handle this?

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Post Information
Title You’re dismissive. Apologize to me!
Author 2wo2wo3hree
Upvotes 2
Comments 35
Date January 4, 2020 3:34 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit /r/askMRP
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/askMRP/youre-dismissive-apologize-to-me.306233
https://theredarchive.com/post/306233
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/askMRP/comments/ejy07g/youre_dismissive_apologize_to_me/
Comments

[–]ChokingDownRPRed Beret10 points11 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Nice stats, you've been lifting, done some reading...now it's time to lead.

She's questioning you because she doesn't trust you to handle money - what is the extra money for?

Also, you working more means she's taking on more at home in your absence, yet only you are getting the benefits of working (OT pay). Couple this with her not trusting you to handle finances and you can see why she is opposed.

I'm not saying you shouldn't hold your line, but if you're going to be "the family alpha" being dismissive of her side of things is pretty weak. You don't have to DEER, but at least pressure flip "what is it about me working extra to have something for myself that bothers you?". You say you've read WISNIFG, use those communication tools.

[–]2wo2wo3hree[S] 1 point2 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

“being dismissive of her side of things is pretty weak.”

I need to find the balance of STFU that’s not coming off as dismissive. I need to practice that.

“but at least pressure flip "what is it about me working extra to have something for myself that bothers you?"

-I went that route... I was told something within the lines of “All finances are our finances, and you can’t just work and keep the money.” I politely declined to agree and STFU.

For now, everything is back to normal. She ended up just needing some feelz met regarding some other little girl stuff.

[–]arm_candy4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I went that route... I was told something within the lines of “All finances are our finances, and you can’t just work and keep the money.” I politely declined to agree and STFU.

You should have continued the negative inquiry instead. By STFU after she gave you her “justification” you implicitly acknowledged its validity.

“What’s wrong with me working for more money?” “What’s wrong with me keeping more of the money that I earn?”

Keep drilling in until you get to something meaningful or she gets tired.

[–]2wo2wo3hree[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah!!! I see! I’ll have this for the next time the issue comes around. Thank you.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'll build on this a little more. What I found is often my wife isn't looking for a seat at the table, but an acknowledgment that I understood her perspective.

I once had to make a considerable financial decision, and I did it without her knowledge. When she found out about it, she asked why I hadn't consulted her. Now previously I had probably kowtowed to her too much and accommodated her when I should have done what was right.

So I said, "I made a hard decision, but the right one."

"Oh ok, but can you just consult me next time?"

That was the key. Further similar situations I approached with that in mind, "Hey this is why it's the right decision. It will be hard, but in the end, the family mission will be achieved easier." In those terms, she has never disagreed with a decision.

So in regards to your wife, don't sell it as "Keeping money you earn" but more as "Furthering the family mission"

"Hey babe, I'm working overtime so that all the bills get paid, and there's a little cushion. I want some safety net"

As others have eluded too, when she says things like "dismissive" and "you should apologize" she's trying to get you to own her feelings and make you judge your actions. Sometimes this can be dealt with as easily as just acknowledging her, "Yeah babe, I hear you. Your feelings are yours, and you are entitled to them" Use WISNIFG to get her to own her own feelings and you can progress from there.

[–]Vegasman200020 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am bad at the pressure flip but I think it is the best response to most tests for relative boobs moving on from STFU. I am going to try to use it a lot more often.

[–]Vegasman200020 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am bad at the pressure flip but I think it is the best response to most tests for relative noobs moving on from STFU. I am going to try to use it a lot more often.

[–]man_in_the_worldRed Beret9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The difference between a tyrant and a leader is that a leader has an attractive vision and mission, and compelling narratives articulating that vision that bring acceptance and motivated buy-in from his people. Tyrants just use their power to arbitrarily enforce their will.

Be a leader, not a tyrant, if you want your people to love and support you instead of seeking to thwart and overthrow you.

[–]2wo2wo3hree[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is solid! Thanks!

[–]markpf738 points9 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

Why did you let her manage the joint account for household expenses? It Sounds like you’ve made her the CFO and she can tell you what you can and can’t do with the money.

Here’s my household financial dynamic that I’ve set up with my wife (she’s a SAHM and was a fucking financial terrorist - I don’t negotiate with terrorists):

1) I work and I build revenue streams. The hours are often long and unpredictable. The money flows into the household account.

2) bills and mortgages are on autopay. I acknowledge debts before I choose to take them on and set up automatic plans to eliminate them.

3) SAHM gets a monthly cash budget on a debit card for all daily food, gas, and kid expenses.

4) SAHM gets a monthly cash budget on a debit card for all personal expenses - clothes, gym memberships, and whatever else she wants to do (most of which revolves around keeping up her SMV as she hits her mid 40s). She can spend it on whatever she wants. I don’t ever want to be bothered with her minutia in my household finances.

5) all extra revenue is spent, saved, and invested as I see fit.

She does best as the oldest teenager in the house with these financial guardrails for her role in the daily operation of the house. She has financial independence in her daily choices but they are contained and bounded.

The power dynamic is clear.

[–]2wo2wo3hree[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I fucked up early in the marriage by letting her manage the finances. I fucking regret the fuck out of that decision. We are an upper middle class family with 1 young child. We are living a very simple life. I make 60% and she makes 40% of our income. ALL of my income goes to a joint account she manages.

Four years of beta shit later and I’m asking permission to transfer some money to have lunch with coworkers here and there. It was one of the things I realized after NMMNG. I can’t live like that.

I didn’t react right away I knew I had other lesser issues I can/should fix while I lift, STFU and Sidebar. With the help of the sidebar, those lesser issues are fixed now and being maintained.

I’m at the base of a new personal task. Just like all lesser issues, there were pushbacks. I’m trying to fix more of the power dynamic by touching up on the financial dynamic.

[–]rocknrollchuck1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t react right away I knew I had other lesser issues I can/should fix while I lift, STFU and Sidebar. With the help of the sidebar, those lesser issues are fixed now and being maintained.

I’m at the base of a new personal task. Just like all lesser issues, there were pushbacks. I’m trying to fix more of the power dynamic by touching up on the financial dynamic.

How fast you implement the changes is up to you, depending on how much blowback you can handle. Here's some links to help you figure things out:

[–]markpf730 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If I were in your shoes I’d fight another battle before you confront her. You need to know what you want out of life (hint: it’s not a good dick sucking and fucking. Those are all just for good fun).

Spend some time on your vision of where you want to be in 10 years (career, business, nothing about your wife should be in this vision as the stay plan is the same as the go plan).

Only after you’ve figured out what progress looks like in ten years can you figure out a plan. Then set up a time to meet with your wife and do a cash flow statement for the house. Deliver your plan of how you want to get to your ten year goal and what it will take financially to get there.

Feel free to insert my financial framework here.

If she doesn’t buy into your vision and financial strategy then financially divorce yourself from her. Split up the finances and pursue your goal on your own. She’ll either want to hop on board or go her own way.

This is how you turn the ship around. No cheat code, no power struggles, just legitimate vision and a plan to get there in a specified period of time. Stay plan is the same as the go plan. You may prefer to do it with her but you’ll be just fine executing it without her.

[–]Octellius0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My setup is almost exactly the same as Mark above, only I implemented it after 10 years together. I was tired of the way she managed money and used credit cards and there never been a single dollar spare for anything. No holiday for years as every cent was spend every week. First thing I did was take over the investments. Similar to a 401k for americans I started managing that directly, and caused us to lose nothing during the GFC. By luck mostly, but if I did nothing we would have lost about half of everything like everyone around me.

Next I announced that I was setting up an account to pay bills and only bills from. I put this at a bank that was not the one we were both with. Only I was on the account. I offered to let her look at it whenever she wanted to. Some cash was going stay in this account for all the DirectDebits and scheduled push payments. She was mildly indignant saying that she has 'managed everything fine for 10 years'. That got us out of the 'which bill will she pay out of the two that just came in' problem.

To fund this account I put my pay and later hers directly in to this account. Yes, her salary goes directly in to an account she has no access to. We had two old joint accounts left over, one which was for spending, and one that was meant to be for bills, but was robbed blind every time the shopping account was empty. I gifted both of these to her, initially we took one each and had our own spending money, but soon I was getting rejected for $3 transactions and I found that she had robbed it blind again. I refactored it again. She had one account for the family affairs, kids, food, etc. One account for her personal spending, same as mark above. I switched to a CC which is paid monthly and has 30-60 days interest free so costs me nothing. Yes, I'm aware that I can at any point see her spending and she can only ask permission to see mine. Never a problem.

Kids need 6k for braces? Paid same day. Holiday? I outline a budget and the cash is always there. She is comfortable about this now. I don't run her nose in it, but she understands that everything is better now.

Lastly, I have a rule. If she gets her own credit card, we split. I'm not cleaning up an more messes. Be clear about this. You are taking responsibility for the families financial outcomes, you don't tolerate being undermined.

The changes in the past 10 years are a complete 180. I used to have her put $20 in my wallet and tell me I had to make it last a week. Now everything runs smoothly and we have cash for anything needed and the retirement property is under construction(I'm 47).

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando6 points7 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

You want to be the Family Alpha yet you get drawn into arguments with Mommy about what you do with your pocket money.

You're the oldest teenager in the house.

[–]RStonePT5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Getting drawn into no win arguments seems to he the TFA way lately

[–]mrpmonk0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Taking over will take time and tactics. He's deep in his own shit and is paying the price

[–]2wo2wo3hree[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s very rare that I get drawn but it happens. By my standards, I’m doing way better with it now. I was reactive as fuck to arguments. Whenever I slip up, my downfall always seems to be the “you’re dismissing my concerns!” I can’t STFU my way through it. It follows me like a heat seeking missile.

I’m stuck on that one.

[–]SBIIIRed Fucking Commando1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

She sees the weak points in your frame and goes for the jugular.

When you can tell her to shut the fuck up, then walk away from her without genuinely giving two fucks about what she says or does, you'll continue to be stuck on that one.

But you're not there yet which is why you are arguing with her about pocket money.

[–]WolfofAllStreetz0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep, take control of the finances. She’s gonna be pissed oh well.

Can’t fathom if my wife handled our shit here.

[–]RStonePT4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Say no, and mean it.

If the regular tools aren't working, switch to nukes or absence. I'll give you a tip, there are no mouth noises that soothe her emotions, accept that and things become clear

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

Flowers and chocolates?

[–]RStonePT2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

The best thing women can smell that lightens their mood is called cocaine, not tulips. 😂

[–]red-sfpplusHard Core Red0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

My bro. 👍🏻

[–]dilberryhoundog3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

My goals are...

To be a dancing monkey.

I’m getting...

(my actions) are met with...

the reactions I’m getting...

Not GETTING the right responses huh? Maybe you've set up some covert contracts and are butthurt when the other party doesn't produce the undisclosed goods.

The regulars around here wouldn't ever bitch about GETTING or NOT GETTING something from somebody else.

[–]2wo2wo3hree[S] -3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

NO VALUE.

[–]dilberryhoundog2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Your goals sound like they are constructed so that they impress others. (Dancing monkey)

You wrote hundreds of words complaining that you are the victim of somebody else’s poor actions / interactions. You seem to expect that this person should offer something different just because you are now red pill, “I’m getting” is the repeating revealing statement. (Covert contracts)

If this was a car forum this is how your post would go...

I want to be the worlds best race car driver. I want every body to praise me for my driving skills.

Im currently driving a car that blows smoke, It won’t go into third gear and the back wheel keeps falling off.

So my question is. How do I dial in the perfect braking distance after flying down the back straight?

All the racers in the forum say...

Mate, your car is not even race worthy, fix that first before asking questions about racing.

You reply...

Don’t you dare dent my race driver ego, I’m on my way to be the worlds most loved race driver.

Good luck buddy. Here’s some value, because I’m on holidays and feeling generous. Interact with your wife how you want. Not how she wants.

[–]arm_candy2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

With the accusations of being dismissive... I STFU and look at her like I’m brain dead because I literally get stuck like a retard knowing I really am being dismissive. How do/did you handle this?

Sometimes complaints of “you’re not listening” mean exactly that. You aren’t listening, and maybe that’s a problem if you care about maintaining a relationship with the person complaining.

Other times, “you’re not listening” means “I’m unhappy that I’m not getting my way”. For those cases, you need to internalize that listening doesn’t mean agreeing. “I have listened but I’ve also made my own decision.” You cannot make anyone agree with your decision, nor can you make them happy with it. The best you can do is try to make them feel heard and make the best decision you can.

Here’s the thing, though. Can you tell us why your wife doesn’t want you to work more hours? If not, you probably aren’t actually listening. ChokingDownRP is right. You should be using your WISNIFG tools here.

[–]2wo2wo3hree[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

“I’m unhappy that I’m not getting my way”. For those cases, you need to internalize that listening doesn’t mean agreeing. “I have listened but I’ve also made my own decision.”

-This right here! This is it! You nailed it.

“ Can you tell us why your wife doesn’t want you to work more hours? If not, you probably aren’t actually listening. ”

-Because she feels all the money should go in a big pot that she controls. It’s now unacceptable to me.

[–]Alpha_FucksFormerly DaddyChadThundercock1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Sounds like you were a drunk captain and now the pissed off FO doesn't like that you stumbled out from below and all of the sudden are trying to control finances. You went to have a few drinks and passed off responsibility to a child. What do you expect to happen when you take control back from a child? She is afraid of losing her beta faggot plow horse.

I don't see any comfort tests in here, can you describe one? I see some shit tests because she isn't used to you actually doing what you want and now there is a massive change. You just flipped the script on her and its jarring.

You don't have the frame to deal with these shit tests and its only the start. You should go back and read WISNIFG and learn how to fog and pressure flip. You give far too many fucks what a child thinks about you. When you learn to not give a fuck this stuff won't be an issue.

You sound scared. What are you afraid of?

[–]2wo2wo3hree[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for this! This brought so much clarity. I’ll need to brush up on WISNIFG.

[–]simbarlionRed Beret0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

At the micro level you are not handling the interaction, where STFU, aa, or whatever is required.

At the macro level you are not the leader you think you are.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

you being out of the house to work means she has to take more of the burden of being at the house alone... which is fine if you give her some praise for "all the extra work" she is putting in so you can work more.

do something special with her exactly for this reason at appropriate intervals and she will gladly follow your lead.

[–]ManguZa0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

She's worried about your investment in the marriage. Like she said " All finances are our finances", it's important to her that all the money pass by the joint account. It's a symbol.
The answer is simple : work more, get more money on the joint account, use this money for you without asking permission.
You have this culpability that prevent you to use money from the joint account for you. That's the root of the issue, it's weak and submissive. Or you're afraid that she "control" your expenses? Btw why don't you take care of the finance?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Open a Roth IRA and regularly invest into Index Fund ETFs (20% QQQ, 20% SPY, 20% DIA)

Invest the remaining 40% into leveraged Index Fund ETFS (15% TQQQ, 15% UPRO, 10% UDOW)

Investing your extra cash into a "savings" account is what poor forever simpletons do. Savings accounts return less than 1%/year. FYI that's less than inflation. You'd be better off spending your money on literally anything that doesn't lose value over time as opposed to putting into a bank. Index funds are returning 10 to 15%/year.

With a ROTH Ira, you can withdraw 100% of your initial investment, you just cant touch the capital gains without incurring a tax penalty before retirement.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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