Abortion

Protocol_Apollo · 2019-05-28T11:42:35+00:00

The pro life argument makes the most sense (just watch Steven crowder/Ben Shapiro on their takes)

But ultimately, it comes to this:

Think for yourself but act like others

There’s very little to gain from debating people esp with something like this. Their views have become so engrained in them, their strong emotions about it cloud them so much that you would have to go to hell and back to change their opinions, so why bother?

Yashugan00 · 2019-05-28T12:45:50+00:00

You are using the wrong paradigm to crack this nut.

Women don't give a shit about being logically consistent.

All that matters is how it makes them feel right now. That's going to be their opinion.

The vast majority have no fixed moral compass or internally consistent framework of ethics.

Arguing with a women is a waste of time.

if you want to understand WHY she uses one argument over another, simply think about why this would benefit her.

By extention, from the specific individual to the generic: Briffault's Law, and by extention the continuous fight to liberate/constrain hypergamy is the underpinning of all our cultures as a species. Men use tools, women use men.

GGrub8 · 2019-05-28T11:42:30+00:00

I'm not pro-life and I couldn't care less about the ethical reasons, but there is a very important thing to consider: a woman who aborts has gone against her own maternal instincts and it's a huge indicator of her being unfit as a future mother.

On the other hand, I'm strongly against giving birth to a child who is not wanted by both parents, and a woman who willingly deprives her kid of his/her own natural father, the most important resource in order to ensure he/she grows strong (and not a slut if it's a girl or a beta/incel if it's a boy), has also shown to be a terrible mother. If the father is an asshole then she was an idiot for having sex with him so she's still responsible.

An undesired pregnancy is a lose/lose scenario, which is why birth control is extremely important. Only, you can't trust her because she could "forget" the pill, so you must use condoms.

In fact, in the age of birth control and enforced consent a pregnant woman is 100% responsible of her pregnancy, even though the laws and society in general are trying their damndest to shift the burden on men while women get all the benefits. We're forced to rely on condoms out of pragmatism, not because it's morally our responsibility, it's actually theirs. They choose to be pregnant.

So what do you do if you get a girl pregnant against your will to be a father? Right now the only remotely passable option is to use the Hail Mary method to convince her to abort, then ghost her.

But seriously, use condoms. There is nothing more soul-crushing than knowing your kid is destined to be a meal ticket for some random slut who'll brainwash him/her to make them hate you while you pay for child support.

thesatellite23 · 2019-05-28T13:53:41+00:00

TRP is all about individualism, right? As an budding alpha male, therefore, you shouldn't care what any other person does. If a complete stranger has an abortion, that doesn't affect you at all. Furthermore, you should take necessary precautions to prevent situations happening in your personal life. If you don't even want the possibility of becoming a father, then don't impregnate your partner. Conversely, if you DO want to become a father, then impregnate a woman who sincerely wants to become a mother as well. You can only control your actions.

I stopped debating political issues -- with anybody -- long ago. Instead, I am more focused on advocating for policies and making a real impact in government. You can do that as well; you can simply email your representatives to let them know how you feel about their legislation one way or the other.

Irtotallynotrobot · 2019-05-28T17:18:07+00:00

First, I agree with you. Criticism welcome.

Second, this argument is flawed. It's assuming that, because a bad decision was made in the past, that a good decision cannot be made in the future. This overlooks an essential part of the female strategy, which is very strong.

A woman is actually making very rational choices for herself here, which argues against the point that her decision making is poor. The truth is that shirking responsibility and hoarding choice power is intelligent.

In the case of not keeping the baby, she found a guy who she believes will supply some resources she wants but not enough to justify keeping any eventual child; not worth the risk of losing value in another chad's eyes because she now has little timmy in tow. She's taking a calculated risk in sleeping with this guy and gambling that a child won't result but has the "it's my body, my choice" nuke in case that comes about.

In the case of keeping the baby, she found who she believes will supply all the resources she wants (regardless of whether he actually can or just has serious alpha game). Now she does everything she can to capitalize and take the risk of lowering her value in other chad's eyes with little timmy in tow because this is an opportunity she can't pass up. Again, a calculated risk; this is where "step up and be a man" comes in.

Another flaw is that this argument assumes that the "it's my body, my choice" and "step up and be a man" are mutually exclusive, cannot coexist. With just these claims alone, she can still have the choice and the man can still bare half responsibility.

If someone wanted to weaken your argument, they would attack one of those two assumptions. Shit like, "just because you two mistakenly decided to sleep together doesn't mean she's incapable of making the right choice as a mother now". "It's her choice what she does with her body but you knew the risks when you had sex with her so you are responsible too, you already made your choice."

To strengthen your argument, I would emphasize that a woman is not making a decision based on a sovereign or personal moral code (you hinted at this) because her decisions demonstrate fluid self-interest which may conflict with the best interest of a child (something like that which connects her non-motherly decision making in the two tenses). The second one is pretty straightforward, it's not fair to a man that he is only judged on his actions prior when a woman can make a retrospective decision at her discretion; both parents should share the choice/responsibility equally. If a woman gets 100% of the choice she should have 100% of the responsibility (they hate that).

Conclusion = Women cannot be trusted with the decision of keeping a child because the arguments they make in support of aborting/not aborting imply that they made a bad decision prior to conceiving.

Evidence

Women make an abortion decision based on the environment around them ( if chad then keep; if not chad then not keep) for sake of simplicity.
Women do not make a decision based on sovereign ethics because they make a decision that suits them best at the moment.
Women cannot be trusted to make good decisions because they expect not to be held responsible for their own actions based on the diametrically opposed arguments they use to support their decision.

W_O_M_B_A_T · 2019-05-28T20:06:59+00:00

Who gives a shit, babies die every second of every day. Used to be you didn't have to worry that much about abortion because there was a 50:50 chance any given baby would die of measles, smallpox, whooping cough, typhus, dysentery, or you name it anyway.

If you're so upset about abortion, do your goddamn part and get a vasectomy. Problem solved. Then it'll never be an issue that is actually relevant to your life.

FreedomEpiphany · 2019-05-28T13:13:30+00:00

I believe abortions should be legal for women, and she should be the person to decide to keep a child, however the father can choose not to participate in growing up the kid.

This idea of going with the crowd promotes brainwashing and hinders dialogue and communication. You may be not liked, but you will be free and authentic.

Title	Abortion
Author	LunarTears0
Upvotes	2
Comments	20
Date	May 28, 2019 11:25 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/btyv8k/abortion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/abortion.239920 https://theredarchive.com/post/239920