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An Open Letter to Older Red Piller's

January 5, 2015

(Earlier today I sent this email to Rollo Tomassi of The Rational Male - no reply yet, understandable. I also posted it on my blog and here at the r/AskTRP sub. Even with all the noise on the subs, and others related to it, I wanted to get help. More exposure to my questions. I know there will be some wisdom in here that can help to dissect my brain during this unplugging.)

Here is the email I sent with some questions I need help with:

"You don't hate fish for swimming do you?"

(two questions are at the bottom)

Hi Rollo, DCL here from the dcllive blog.

I'll get right to it...

Before I found out about how woman actually are, in terms of their sexual strategy i.e. dating up, I loved women with a blissful ignorance that got me into tons of trouble and now and then some pussy.

Then the same old story, failed 'relationships' and back to square one. I thought that's just how it goes. But I still was infatuated with women.

Nowadays while looking at my life, past and post Red Pill and noticing the transition through the Stages (I know Game works, I'm not angry anymore just confused at my own behavior), I've come to understand that the infatuation wasn't just sexually charged. I was, probably still am, looking to women for validation as well.

Validation for what? I don't have a clue. And I think it's different then putting women on a pedestal.

Once I find out why I need validation from women, and then work on trying to fix it, I want to make sure I don't lose that 'love for women' I used to have. I understand the difference in how men and women love (romantically/opportunistically, thank you Rollo). I don't hate women for "swimming" like they are supposed to.

I guess I'm just afraid that if I find out why I seek out women for validation I won't like them as much anymore. They aren't terrible creatures and, again, I don't hate them. it was a waste of energy. They just, are what they are.

I hope I'm articulating this correctly.

Why do men look to women for validation, on any scale big or small? and Is there a way to love women for how and who they are?

I realize that all this comes with Red Pill relationship experience. And I certainly want that.

The reason I'm asking you these questions is because I believe you will give me, at the very least, some unfiltered things to think about. You are an older man who is married and has children so there must be an aspect of love in there that exists without the external influence of the fem-centric condition. -dcl

Thanks for your time.

P.S. With your permission I would like to share your reply (at your earliest convenience) on my blog. Perhaps it could help other young men (I'm twenty nine) that 1) accept the Red Pill, 2) don't want to check-out and go their own way and 3) still like women but want to make sure that it's coming from a place of genuine masculinity.

I'm sure the answers I'm really looking for require some sort of deep psychological analysis. Maybe not.

Older Red Piller's out there, can you help me articulate what I'm getting at?

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Post Information
Title An Open Letter to Older Red Piller's
Author DCLdit
Upvotes 0
Comments 4
Date January 5, 2015 5:10 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit /r/askTRP
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/an-open-letter-to-older-red-pillers.144963
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/2rdfhv/an_open_letter_to_older_red_pillers/
Red Pill terms in post

[–]2secret_barber2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Why do men look to women for validation, on any scale big or small?

People, all people, desire validation because it feels good. The truth is that the validation that feels best comes from within.

Is there a way to love women for how and who they are?

Yea, sure. Love is an emotion you can feel. It isn't rational, though. You will have to truly accept their flaws for what they are.

[–]DCLdit0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

People, all people, desire validation because it feels good. The truth is that the validation that feels best comes from within.

You're right. I've got to start cultivating my own validation, giving myself credit and understanding my own self worth.

Yea, sure. Love is an emotion you can feel. It isn't rational, though. You will have to truly accept their flaws for what they are.

Maybe I haven't truly accepted their flaws due to a lack of (red pill) experience in a relationship.

This unplugging is a lot bigger and longer than I thought. But I'm in it for the long haul.

Thanks secret_barber, I've got some things to ponder.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Older Red Piller's

I'm a fairly recent RPer and no expert, but I am old, so maybe that counts. To your questions:

Why do men look to women for validation, on any scale big or small?

As /u/secret_barber has said, it's normal for people to want validation - or as an old boss of mine put it, "everyone just wants to belong". It's a complicated thing being human, and we're all making it up as we go along. At the back of most of our minds is the sneaking suspicion that we're making a colossal fuck up of it all. This is often well-grounded - this universe is weirder than we can understand, and we're really not very sophisticated animals.

Having someone else accept our efforts to make sense of it all, or even approve of these, is a big boost to our mental well-being. If everyone disapproves of you, maybe you're doing something wrong, and you will feel shit; if most people, particularly people that you care about, approve of you, it feels like you're doing it right. Fucking is a strong form of validation because it feels nice and make us think we're desirable and good. Of course the big risk with this natural process of seeking individual validation is that we can fall into the trap of doing things and thinking things for the primary reason that an individual or individuals will approve of them, not because we've worked them out to be the best option. We want the reward of the validation, so pay the price of adopting a "frame" that suits those giving it. The validation of charismatic, confident ("alpha") people is typically perceived to be more valuable, so more people fall into a strong alpha frame than a weak one. Duh. Also oneitis - "I'll do anything for her... validation".

Ideologies of various sorts (religious, political, ethical frameworks, ...) also provide us validation stories that we can copy-and-paste from, complete with claims that they are the single source of truth, endorsed by your favorite deity, they way right-minded people behave, what society or the law demands, etc. Adopting these "bulk validation schemes" also allows us to belong to groups that usually will provide more individual validation to "people like them". Group identity is a shortcut to lots of small doses of individual validation.

Rejecting these convenient narratives and closely examining "How Things Really Are And What I Should Do About That" is a tough thing to do, and has been the life work of many a monk or lama plus a good few people who don't give any fucks about what others think. This is a potentially worthwhile path, but it is short on that lovely emotional validation we like so much, and it's fundamentally lonely. As we're a social species (fuck knows why, blame chemistry or evolution or something), not many go this way - also, it's genuinely bloody hard to do. Most fail: the person who rejects some of these frameworks and confidently sets their own agenda can succeed in looking like a common-or-garden alpha, and may get some people to follow them, as well as some other perks along the way - an abundance of pussy being the commonest aspect discussed here.

Is there a way to love women for how and who they are?

Depends what you mean by love. If you mean "like a ordinary schlub who falls head over heels in love with the girl of his dreams and lives happily ever after", then no. If you mean a mature emotional state, say equal parts acceptance, lack of attachment and generalized care, with a sprinkling of lust and interest - then sure, why not? I love my kids (minus the lust, natch), and I probably love my wife too when all is said and done. I also love a bunch of other people, and I even love myself. I hold no "romantic" illusions about any of these people being special snowflakes worthy of some magically emotional state called "being in love" though - that is really just chemistry, and simply cannot last. Men are inescapably wired for novelty, and we are a bit irrational about pussy. I don't care how fucking amazing any woman is, or how assiduously you work to accept her for how and who she is, eventually she's gonna bore you and the love left will be more care and companionship than fireworks and fantastic fucking. (The impact of this truth on the institution of marriage and monogamy is left as an exercise for the reader).

[–]RedHeimdall1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Re: validation from women, I probably seek this too to some degree. I can see a couple motivations... First, there were many years of not getting girls when I was younger, so now there's a part of my ego that "has something to prove." Once I was able, I ran up my notch count mercilessly, then slowed down, but I think this drive is still there.

Second, when you look at your own SMV it's something that has objective components but also subjective components. The fashion, grooming and style components for instance seem pretty subjective and arbitrary to me. Plus different girls have their own little personal tastes outside of the main universals.

In these subjective areas, unlike in most of your life, you have to look to the opinions of other people to find out if you're doing things right. (Assuming being attractive to them is doing things right.) I hate wearing a suit or any kind of fancy clothes, and if I had my way I'd never shave or cut my hair. But I know that most girls and employers want XYZ, so I attempt to do XYZ.

This is where positive reactions from girls give validation, lets me know I'm doing things right.

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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