Why do women let their son become betas when they themselves hate betas?

February 3, 2020

What I mean is, say Karen was riding Chad's dick all the way to her post wall days. She would scoff if Tim the band nerd so much as looked at her for too long, forget what would happen if he actually asked her out.

Why does this same woman, who after she settles down with Bobby the Beta who she gives pity sex to once every couple months, be ok with her own son picking up those qualities? Her most basic instinct is telling her that these men are worth nothing more than the resources they provide. Why would she ever be ok with her son picking up those qualities?

On a similiar note, why do women try to "betafy" their alpha boyfriends? Example, my ex used try and get me to go clothes shopping with her, befriend her effeminate male friend, tell me its ok to be sensitive etc. I'd straight up shoot that shit down, and then she'd roll her eyes and go "ugh, men". Why do they try and get people to do the very things that turn them off?

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Post Information
Title Why do women let their son become betas when they themselves hate betas?
Author BusyCupcake
Upvotes 188
Comments 90
Date February 3, 2020 11:43 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit /r/askTRP
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/why-do-women-let-their-son-become-betas-when-they.329682
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/eyggjt/why_do_women_let_their_son_become_betas_when_they/
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[–]account_rp341 points342 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

They're raising their sons for what they want in children, not what they want in men. They don't actually know what they want in men.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFereallyRed221 points222 points  (17 children) | Copy Link

Women are really interested in tigers. They're strong, pretty, nice to pet, protectors, have an "I'm the king of all I see" vibe, dangerous, and great status symbols.

To keep a tiger, though, it's convenient to train them to walk on a leash, not eat the occasional lamb, piss in the designated area, sleep in a cage, etc.

Problem is, tigers don't like being caged or on a leash. This is against their nature. Some do get domesticated, though, even learn tricks. It's helpful to chop off their balls to accomplish this domestication.

Problem is doing this makes them lose the edge that made them attractive in the first place.

They become compliant little kitties.

Women then realize all the excitement around owning a tiger has evaporated, because now they're walking down the street with wrinkled tiger balls in their purse, holding the leash of an overgrown neutered housecat.

Guess what? They begin the search for another tiger. Don't be a pussy. Stay tiger.

[–]BusyCupcake[S] 51 points52 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

This is like, the best analogy I have ever heard hands down, and makes me believe that any expectation of an LTR is sorely mistaken.

[–]ChadBroChillington28 points29 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's one of the great cosmic jokes. Women will do anything to lock down an alpha male. Except that by giving them what they want (LTR or marriage) they lose respect for you and thus attraction. Life is funny like that.

[–]El_Serpiente_Roja6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Patrice had a thing about this

[–]geo_gan0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not original though. I have definitely read that exact thing on TRP before (But maybe he wrote it)

[–]PoonBuffet1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep it's a copy paste

[–]MO-ZEUS9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, never grow too complacent. Strive to continuously make yourself the best version of yourself and keep yourself busy, make her compete for your attention.

[–]SeasonedRP1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This analogy nicely portrays why marriage and cohabitation typically don't work out for the man and why you can't alpha your way to a good marriage.

[–]Treatscatscrave1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I would NOT repeat this brilliant analogy without permission (suppose I could but that would be rude) but, Fereallyred, this is brilliant.

Absolutely spot on.

[–]Endorsed ContributorFereallyRed2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Permission granted.

[–]1matrixtospartanatLV0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Great fucking comment.

[–]aDrunkenWhaler0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Beautifully said.

[–]bvda0030 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i love this comment.

[–]SilentlyCrimson0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Very good comment. The Endorsed badge never lies.

[–]shirtposder159 points160 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Because (all but the most street smart) women inherently cannot understand raising MALES. They want an son that is "easy to take care of"/"makes them proud" and is easy to deal with. Also they are genetically programmed to be gentle to their offspring, and don't view (I would hope..) their son as a mate so as I said, inherently they teach them bad habits, but mostly it's due to them being feminine (positive connontation - that's their "energy"). This is why men REALLY need stable fathers and we need to get rid of the single motherhood epidemic, it's incredibly toxic for men.

[–]geo_gan7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I do worry for my own son growing up with only his mother and only seeing me once every two weeks 😫. Nothing I can do about it though.

[–]caP1taL1sm_4200 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Sheesh, you got bigger problems man

[–]spicy_fries37 points38 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

"what they think they like" ≠ "what they are actually attracted to"

Think about it this way, would you tell your daughter to "have big tits" in order to score hot dudes? Your genetic wiring would prevent you from doing this.

[–]Flamergoh8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Omg how is this not on top, it fucking makes so much sense

[–]macheagle47 points48 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

The mothers want their sons to be betas too partially so that they (the sons) can continue to provide for them.

And never forget that many of their attempts at betafying you are shit tests. So are the ensuing eye rolls.

[–]z2a1-95 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link


[–]ritzmata1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This whole time I thought my mom loved me but I’ve slowly realized that her and every other female was just giving me one big giant shit test lol

[–]empatheticapathetic16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

On the other hand my sister has seen what betas me and my brother became and has raised her son to be a delinquent little shit who has the respect of nobody around him, and no skills, academic or otherwise.

[–]new__vision22 points23 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

To answer your second question on "betafication", an excerpt from one of the greatest RP books ever written:

On the biological level, the female of our species is programmed to:

1.Elicit a strong sexual attraction in one or more strong males.

  1. Feel a strong sexual attraction for such males.

  2. Become impregnated by her choice of male.

  3. Have a male to provide materially for both her and her infant child.

Afterwards, she will subconsciously tend to operate in such a way so as to have her sexual attraction for that male decrease.

Wash, rinse, repeat: she will tend to have more sexual intercourse and more children with other strong males.

We call this process betaization, where the strong, alpha male is rendered beta — which means "secondary" or "subservient" — within the relationship, over a period of time. Quite often, this process occurs gradually and almost imperceptibly to both parties.

Manipulation is widely used by women to achieve:

- Safety and comfort for her and her children, with their survival being the primary purpose.

- To thereby influence the man's mind in such a way that he will feel compelled to protect her and her children, especially before pregnancy, during the pregnancy and throughout the children's early developmental years.

For more check out this post on TRP.

[–]BusyCupcake[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That's interesting. I once picked up the book but left if since the first chapter seemed to read like a logic textbook with implications and equivalences etc. It seems I should pick it up once more.

[–]z2a1-91 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Will look into this book you speak of

[–]CainPrice24 points25 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Children are just another tool for women.

Women are the stars of their own stories. The main characters of life. The men, the children, the pet dogs - these are all just supporting roles in the grand story that is their lives.

So how a woman feels today, right now, what she wants today, right now - this is important to women.

What her child can become and accomplish? She only cares about this to the extent that it affects her. What she can tell her friends about her successful son. How often he calls and visits. What he does to help take care of her.

She'd much rather her sons become passive, wealthy, momma's boy doctors and engineers with lots of money who dote on their mother than become confident, independent, pussy-slayers who carry on the family line. In her universe, her children are an extension of her. Her son's are her best beta orbiters.

The idea that she is a part of something larger and that there is continuity from her ancestors to her and from her to her children, and that this bigger thing than her means something? She doesn't get that. She's the biggest thing in her world.

[–]BusyCupcake[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I am getting teary eyed reading this. It about sums up what I realized about my ex, but after it was too late and we were already married and after I already put a tonne of emotional and monetary investment into her.

Never again.

[–]sowhattwenty202 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes. Female solipsism and narcissism go hand in hand.

[–][deleted]  (7 children) | Copy Link


[–]RPNorvell[M] 12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Every god damn week there's another idiot early 20's entitled bitch that somehow finds her way here and thinks her pussy gets her a pass and she's obviously better at strategies designed to fuck women. Every week.

[–]johngalt1234-3 points-2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thoughts on "Female dating strategy" subreddit?

[–]Wicked1Perceptions0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is a dumpster fire with a short life span "FDS". The pedals fall off those roses and then what. They no longer have an upper hand as new models will replace them in a short amount of time. TL;DR women screw themselves.

[–]CainPrice5 points6 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I know you think you have valuable things to tell men, but that’s exactly why you’ll make a shitty mother.

[–]LordFa910 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

IMO its a combination of

1) Most single mothers having to struggle a bit financially. Hence the kid sees this and values being a good beta provider

2) Mama bear instinct protecting their son from the world, so he grows up introverted, socially awkward and sheltered

3) No good male role model to model after

[–]Velebit10 points11 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

Being 'beta' is the default or natural state of evolution for Whites and especially Asians. Being a well mannered, respectful, non intrusive, compliant, trusting and emotionally vulnerable person of 'bluepilled' (rather then beta) tendencies is ideal for a K selected (google this term) environment where society is stable, internal structurs are safe and predictable and there is ample room for long term planning and a high trust, high punishment society. Internally unified, externally divided. Not like today, other way around.

Compare it to r selected (google this term also) societies or environments. Those are typical of tropical populations and therefore not White or east Asian. Internally very unstable, low trust, low predictability, high internal competitiveness, very low levels of societal functionality, very high amounts of unpunished social traitors and cheaters of every kind.

Well, our traditions have been utterly discarded and thrown in trashcans and now our sociological fundamentals are laws of the jungle basically. You lie, no punishment, you do adultery no punishment, you do perversion of any kind, no punishment, you abandon your country in time of war and need, not only no punishment but sympathy and special assylum seeker status, you make numerous babies with genetic trash fathers, you get rewarded by money from workhorse submissive taxpayer cattle.

Basically every tenant of a vital and functional society that resembles something that is intuitive to Whites and Asians has been dismantled and they are completely lost, trying to pick up pieces. I can't help but genuinely pitty Asian dudes who have to deal with 56% of Asian females who openly prefer men of other races to their own men as a result of missmatch between our natural inclinations vs cultural programming/damage. This is not supposed to be so.

Natural state for tropical populations is to control their environment with small scale tribal hierarchies based not on abstract ideologies but practical hedonism and violence. They are today called gangs. In these gangs, these populations have ultra high testosterone displays of traditional tropical courage and risk tolerance. They MUST disobey the very visible enemy group by displaying disobedience even when life is treathened, for example when they are being arrested. They might get shot and die but that is a price and risk well worth if they display no submissive gestures and no cowardice. They are thus, very recognisably 'alpha'.

[–]NeedRealityShock1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

So skin color is a good predictor for personality? What is the criminal color then?

[–]Velebit2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link


Here is some reality for you to be shocked.

And some more as apparently humans can't find a way to stop transmission of 'culture'


[–]NeedRealityShock-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

And Breaking Bad taught me that most white Americans are drug dealers.

What's your point?

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link


[–]LarrySelllers1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is weird vague racism or something, r and k selection is not for fucking societies lol its for shit like comparing humans and cats and trees to things like fruit flies and slime molds that grow and die fast.

[–]genital-love7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

girls don't think logically

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Hahaha I don’t have the answer you’re looking for but I found this post unusually funny. Nice one.

[–]peacemakerzzz4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because then don’t know how to raise a Man. Fundamentally they are not capable of understanding how the opposite gender works. It’s not because she doesn’t want a child to outgrow her, it’s because she just doesn’t have the mental capacity to fully channel that masculine energy. There are fair cases though, when a woman has been clearly impacted by her alpha father that she knows how a good Man should be like. Then and there she will try to emulate that behavior towards her son. But in most cases.... it never occurs.

[–]maverick97593 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They don't want to. It's like a shit test. When I lived with my parents she used to be overprotective trying to stop me from doing risky things. Once when I was 15 I told her very firmly "I am gonna take dad's motorbike around for a ride and you're not stopping me".. She cried for hours about how I don't understand her and what not but there was this weird satisfaction on her face that I disobeyed her and did what I wanted to do anyway. Never got in my way since then, whatever i do she's like " You have a mind sharper than our generation son, you'll judge better."

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link


[–]BusyCupcake[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You may be on to something... I've seen plenty of women do lots of stupid, illogical shit. It would be meaningless to philosophize on the higher reason for that. It's just women being women.

[–]Treatscatscrave3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I think they shit test their sons, too.

They'll say things like 'don't go doing that dangerous thing!' but are really happy when son defies them. So many mothers say ' then he went and did it anyway!' with smiles on their faces. It's always the son who follows his own path that's the favourite.

And just because a son is alpha, doesn't mean he won't look after his mother. It's not about her wanting a compliant beta.

An alpha is more likely to keep the daughter-in-law in line and that daughter-in-law will be less likely to be passive aggressive to the mother.

None of this is conscious.

[–]jm511 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So many mothers say ' then he went and did it anyway!' with smiles on their faces.

My dad was like that. Rant at me for going my own way and then brag about what I did to his drinking buddies.

[–]Gawernator2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it's more of a problem of lacking a strong father figure.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link


[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy Link


[–]general_landur0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah it took me a while to realize this as well. She wants me to take the initiative and be independent/responsible, be able to face the world with little trouble. Basically be alert and vigilant.

After reading up I was able to spot some trp truths in my parents' relationship too. Especially how women think with their emotions.

[–]Jcorb3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

This is only my own theory.

My take is that women genuinely want to be romantic. They want to be the kind of woman that chooses "the nice guy", who chooses "love" over "attraction". And I think women think that's actually how the world is.

I mean... think about it; isn't that why women are so ashamed to admit they're driven by sex? Sure, they're afraid of being labelled "slutty". But taken further, that implies they sort of think other women must be driven by those romantic interests.

So they try and prepare kids for the way they think -- or at least want -- the world to be.

I think you see this is both how they raise boys and girls. Some cultures differ in this, but definitely here in the West, that's how things are.

I mean... as a guy, I want a "good girl". But I'm going to choose the hottest woman available to me. I think women have a hard time processing that there is a difference, and accepting that more primal side of their nature.

Again, just my own two cents.

[–]MaseratiDaddy013 points4 points  (10 children) | Copy Link

Going shopping FOR your girl or WITH your girl? I'm into fashion/style so I like shopping, how is that beta?

[–]BusyCupcake[S] 6 points7 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

"Oh my god, that dress looks so cute on your gurllll, you should totally get it!"


"Hmm, I think the hemline on that dress isn't really you, and maybe try the Georgette dress instead, I think that's so much more fun and adventurous!!"

That's about as beta as it can get. The alternative of sitting in the public area with a bunch of other goofy, overweight bluepilled fucks while the girl is shopping at Nordstrom is hardly an improvement, since you're now her chauffer-bitch.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

as someone who is into fashion - I don’t see why I can’t enjoy my SO’s company regardless of where we’re at.

also, you worded that shit like someone gay is with her.

if she’s trying shit on, if I needed something I’d separate, get what I need, and meet with her when we’re both done getting what we need.

if she’s asking for opinions, it’s gonna either be “hot, get it” or “no”... otherwise it’s up to her at that point...

thats just me though, also, you’re only going to be a chauffeur if she has no respect for you lol

[–]BusyCupcake[S] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I worded it gayly to make a point, but even without, still seems to me like a shit test. Are you gonna go out there and do your mission or are you gonna be one of her girlfriends who she chooses cute tops with.

you’re only going to be a chauffeur if she has no respect for you lol

That respect has to come from somewhere. She isn't gonna respect her man just because, as many bluepillers seem to believe. A man who agrees to drive around a woman while she goes shopping and other chores and gives up his wallet at the first finger wag isn't really inspiring that respect.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

we are just talking about an activity in itself - you seem to be implying that this said man is already disrespected to begin with.

now you’re saying you have to give up your wallet? what? again, you’re just placing this in a situation of a pussy guy. we aren’t talking about a position of a blue pill guy that is a slave for his girl, we are talking strictly about the activity of going shopping with your girl.

i know for a fact my significant other wouldn’t think of just pointing and saying “buy this”... are you kidding me right now?

you don’t have to be working on your “mission” 24/7. everyone has some downtime, and even women understand that.

also, most men nowadays NEED to go out and cop some shit, cause most guys dress like garbage.

[–]drunkPKMNtrainer2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean you can wait or go grab a ice cream, or sneak into the dressing room for a quick fuck.

[–]yvnglucifer1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

" Hmm, I think the hemline on that dress isn't really you, and maybe try the Georgette dress instead, I think that's so much more fun and adventurous! "

literal autism in one sentence.

[–]Monkitail-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

its kinda gay that he wrote that sentence to be honest, wtf is a georgette dress for fuck sakes?

[–]MaseratiDaddy010 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

When i went shopping with my ex it was more "yeah i like that" and then I'd go back to shopping for myself.

[–]Monkitail-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I pick out dresses and lingerie for my girl to wear all the time. I know exactly what I want and and I do what it takes to get it. Granted I dont go to the mall I hop online and tell her what I want to see her in. although in hind site I would like to have a girl try on different things for me at the mall and then tease me in the dressing room; that'd be hot.

[–]drunkPKMNtrainer0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

For reals.

[–]RPthrowaway1231 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

For the same reason men love easy women with big tits but don't raise their daughters to become one.

[–]Sigma1Enigma0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

They raise good boys who will always look out for them. Their sons may come in different shapes and sizes but they want them to be mamma's boys for safety.

[–]ppanthero0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Lack of awareness.

[–]Vamlack0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

Alpha and beta males is a concept invented by men who are insecure about their masculinity.

[–]notpahimar1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The point stands: why don't they raise them to be sufficiently masculine?

[–]catbrainland1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I really like this line of arguing. Being rich or poor is a social construct invented by people insecure about their wealth.

[–]Vamlack0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

That's a wrong point my friend. Masculinity is a social construct, wealth is not. And we could actually make a good point out of it: some poor people pretend to be rich because the are "ashamed". Same with masculinity: some say they are alpha males to prove to themselves that they are not weak, by feeling superior to "beta" males.

[–]catbrainland0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Masculinity is a social construct, wealth is not.

More precisely the attribute is social construct for both - your wealth exists only because others allow it to - just like your status as an alpha male/female or whatever. It's not really innate, although certain innate markers may help to atain such a status (being tall, being industrous...).

However in spite of the attribute being virtual initially, the outcomes are quite fundamental: power. This is why writing off socially constructed hiearchies such as capitalism is not nearly as simple as some people would like to imagine (communism).

some poor people pretend to be rich

Nobody gives a shit about delusional weirdos because you won't change your status as determined by others this way. I think better example are rich people who prefer to not flaunt their wealth - or a highly attractive/successful male who acts as if he had far less options. Regardless, their wealth exists as a very real power they can act out at any time - they just prefer not to. It's worth noting that such "benevolent dictators" are quite a rarity, and most people in position of power use it, or even abuse it, to a full extent.

[–]Kronosfkg0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Look "à relationship contradiction" by colttaine

[–]uchihaitachi12370 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

That is why you need a proper father in the house

[–]jacknifejones0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because masculinity can only be bestowed by other men. Whether it is in tribal gangs, sports teams, military units, or peer groups; masculinity is a recognition from other men that you belong with them and are valued. Men seeking status with the group, are required to demonstrate their value, through demonstrations of courage or mastery, that bring glory to the individual and the group. They are also required to show that they can function in a society with other men. I.e. useful team player not dead weight or loner.

Women, especially mothers, know that their son must eventually abandon them in order to fall deeply into their main peer group. Think about a teenager joining the military or making a basketball team. This is a threat to the mother son bond, and so women might try and dissuade the son from joining a male pack which effectively renders the son a beta.

[–]Merica9110 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

In all really, when a girl ask their men to do a beta shit(let's say, go clothes shopping with her) and he does it, she loves and hates the guy at the same time.. And to be honest, the love part is like how she loves her brother or gay friend.. But she'll slow Unconsciously hate you for goes with her.. You're supposed to say no, because you have to work on the breaks on your car (in which she unconsciously loves to hear)

Single mothers are uncapable to single-handedly make their sons alphas. Period. That's why many still continue looking for a "retired" alpha (a guy with kids of his own) to now help jump into the single mothers mix to make her son a bit alpha because she incapable of doing so herself. Single mothers don't dress their sons like little girls but they'll most definitely won't tell their son when they're 13 to beware of girl's manipulative head games and also to make the most money you can so you can have "fuck you" problems when growing up.

That's why I as times say even men can do a better job at child rising than women, but they most definitely do a great job birth to age 12. After that there's just something a mother can't do to help rise a boy going forward, but they try anyways.

[–]LateralThinker130 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women in general can't properly raise men. It really takes another man. And most of these women are single mothers.

[–]Lalocal4life-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

No woman knows how to raise an alpha male. When is the last time you heard a woman say she had a problem in the ladies room Or the gym?

[–]mrpthrowa-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Because she is looking out for her best interest, and her best interest right now is another provider male as her son.

[–]WiterS2-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

why do women try to "betafy" their alpha boyfriends?

That works as a periodic check for betaness. To find if the dude cheated her into believing he's alpha.

Why does this same woman, [...], be ok with her own son picking up those qualities?

That really doesn't makes sense, and we do not have a good theory.

Possibly, since alphas pump and dump, mothers need their son's support, to sustain all the babies from the mother and sisters, and grandsisters.

Also, being in a group of women helps to make contact with other women.

[–]violetmonstermunch-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

They Want their son to be a good beta Buck slave who will fund some lucky chick

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy Link


[–]BusyCupcake[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

That's interesting..... but what about those fat women who were knocked up by chads and tyrones and are raising 3 kids with different fathers? Seems those kids would have alpha genes as well but ive seen plenty of single moms treat their kids with contempt.

[–]NeedRealityShock-1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Many women dont enjoy child rearing Single moms are just bitter creatures and their offspring are an outlet. Plus they are usually young and dumb and overwhelmed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link


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