So. For those not in the know. We recently had a post on /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates by /u/sugarlemonlife who describes herself as a 50 y.o. wife, mother of a blended family of 4 boys & 2 girls and a Licensed Professional Counselor for 25 years.

She had recently decided to attempt to use her expertise to help a wider audience of men and started by going online to ask some questions to her target audience. And in her own words

unintentionally agitated two very angry "bee hives" - Men who were angry that a woman was talking about men's issues & Women who were angry that a woman was talking about men's issues.

I was both accused of being a misandrist that wants to "create more weak men that women can take advantage of" AND accused of having repressed, internalized misogyny if I question anything about feminism.

The following is a comment by /u/askingtofeminists in response to her post that I thought deserved more attention

Welcome among us.

Many here once identified as feminists, but dared to question some aspects of how it is practiced, mainly by big institutions/associations, and were pretty much shamed and rejected for it. Since then, through actually looking at what is done under the banner, many have come to think of feminism, as is practiced, as something radically different from the nice sounding "movement for equality", and more as something pushing all sorts ormf really harmful things on society, men in particular, but that also has all sorts of negative impacts on women.

The realization can be hard, for some people, and confusing. My advice is, stick to what you believe is right no matter how much people disapprove of you. There's nothing healthy to gain to lie to yourself and go against your values. Particularly if it's to agree with an impersonal crowd on the internet.

Don't take too much to heart any hate some people might fling at you. Knowing that you are true to yourself should be what guides you. And know that as long as you are open minded, willing to consider evidence and to have open discussions, even if you end up disagreeing with us, you will be welcomed here.

(And I really wanted to emphasize this part)

The beehives you poked, we're rather familiar with. They basically both stem from something similar to what you can observe from people who escape cults. As a psychologist, you might be familiar with it : someone who discover that they have been lied to their whole life, but finally discover the truth, and gets pissed at people they perceive as being still in the cult and propagating its harmful effects on others. And so they lash out in anger at those they perceive as trying to pull them or other back into the cult.

Of course, people who enter a cult also think that they are the ones who have discovered the truth, and that those outside are the ones standing in the way of salvation and harming others, and are angry at them.

I would suggest that a good way to determine on which side you're on is to look for which side will allow for people to openly question things and disagree, and which side will try to use shame, social agression, ostracism, and, on social media, banning and silencing tactics to avoid dissent.

That's what makes me think I'm on the right side here :D, and that feminism isn't

There's also how we deal with those hateful people. Whe' they come to us, we try to calm them, to get them to come to term with things, and to get them to channel their anger towards acting to make the world a better place.

On the side of feminism, we get the impression that they try to stoke that hatred, and to give it a platform, with the multiplications of various books and news article praising misandry, like the article [why can't we hate men?](www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-cant-we-hate-men/2018/06/08/f1a3a8e0-6451-11e8-a69c-b944de66d9e7_story.html) in the Washington post by a leading feminist academic.

I'm sorry you had to suffer from those beehives. Know that we would prefer they didn't exist, and that we try to do what we can to limit their influence, and to get people out from them, and back into sanity.

Know that people here take feminism to mean "the collection of actions and beliefs pushed by groups and academics and agencies who call themselves feminists", and not "the equality of men and women" or "women's rights". That's something key to keep in mind when reading here. Like you've been told already, people here are generally egalitarian,but perceive the various things undertaken under the name of feminism to be detrimental to men, and very often women.

The modern MRM is considered to have been started by Warren Farrell, who used to be on the board of the NOW, decided to investigate the wage gap, back when it was still a novel concept, I believe it was around the 70s, found it to be mainly a question of differing life choices made by men and women, and decided to try to empower women with the knowledge of those choices, so that they may follow those same life choices and earn more if they wished. Apparently, the NOW didn't appreciate his empowering message that didn't imply telling women they were powerlessly oppressed by a sexist system that could only be fought through groups like the NOW, and so he basically lost his feminist credentials and got kicked out, since he didn't renounce his principles and his commitment to evidences.

As such, the MRM is very much a movement that cares for women and is left leaning at its core. Sadly, being feminist is mainly left coded, and doubting feminism is more traditionalist/right coded, and so a lot of people of these bent also joined the MRM, and r/MensRights is more right leaning. It's also older, more recognized, and so, as reddit's life cycle does its thing, more filled with shitty memes, rage bait, and has also a big presence of people like pick-up artists, MGTOW or incels who have been chased away from other places and have found some amount of refuge there. As we generally allow differing opinions, and very rarely ban people, they also use it as an outlet.

That's why this sub has been made. It reflects more what can be said in the MRM, is generally with better quality posts, and also more welcoming to left leaning people, while still welcoming all sorts of dissent to have productive exchanges.

If you want to learn more about the MRM, the first two things I would recommend would be to look at the YouTube channel of Karen Straughan. Sort her videos by oldest, 20mn+, and start watching. She's incredibly smart, and her channel is filled with interesting informations and perspectives.

If you're less into rather dry and logical essays, and more into more emotional, empathy generating documentaries (nobody's perfect :D, I won't judge you), then you should give a look at the documentary "the red pill", by Cassie Jaye, a feminist documentarian who decided to fairly investigate the MRM. She also has a Ted talk called "meeting the enemy" that is worth watching.

Other channels that might be of interests to you :

The prim reaper a left leaning woman, psychologist, in the MRM.

men are good, more right leaning, Tom golden is also a psychologist, older, who's worked a lot with men and notably wrote a book on the masculine side of healing about how men grieve particularly.

I hope this helps you navigate those new waters. Know that you are definitely welcome, and that we appreciate your desire to help men. All the help is more than welcome.

Don't hesitate to post to ask questions. There are always people willing to answer in detail. If you tag me, I can guarantee at least one person with a burning passion for data, some good knowledge about CBT, and a disregard for what is taboo willing to go on at length and to provide sources will oblige, if that's possible. And I'm sure others will help.

(Now, I'm also heavily considering putting this post into the sidebar. Because I feel it serves as an excellent primer for the "culture" of the sub. But alas, This is not a dictatorship and I want feedback from the sub and the rest of the mod team first. )