Career Beta Success Stories?

jacktenofhearts · 2015-08-17T08:39:31+00:00

Don't know if I would've described myself as a "career beta," but I did not have anything remotely close to an "alpha" period in my life until after my first marriage ended.

Here are some broad observations:

"Career betas," in my observation, often have codependent personality traits. They put way too much value in seeking the approval and appreciation of others. This is usually due to some bad experiences in their formative years that fucked up their brain wiring. The basis of "WISNIFG" is exactly this -- someone you know asks you to do something, you don't want to do it, but if you refuse to do it, they will react with disapproval, and that kills us.

Codependents usually end up married to narcissists. It's the perfect dysfunctional relationship. Most well-adjusted people eventually distance themselves from codependents, because they're fucking exhausting to deal with. Why didn't you invite me to your barbecue? Did I do something wrong? Are you mad at me?
Unfortunately, narcissists feed on this, because your pathetic mewling will reinforce their "world revolves around me" attitude, and they will like feeling like someone so important that they justify that mewling.

Codependency is also what leads to the "covert contracts" that are emphasized heavily in NMMNG.

Nice Guys are dependent on external validation and avoid conflict like the plague.

Nice Guys are guided by the following three "covert contracts:"

If I am a good guy, then everyone will love me and like me (and people I desire will desire me).
If I meet other people’s needs without them having to ask, then they will meet my needs without me having to ask.
If I do everything right, then I will have a smooth, problem-free life.

This is textbook codependent thinking. But if any of this were true, you wouldn't be here. You're here because you realize it's not true. A lot of people you put all this time and effort in, probably give don't give two fucks about you. They don't even give one fuck. Some of the kinder ones may give you half a fuck now and then, but that's it.

It's very likely you've considered this at some point. Chances are you have a lot of underlying resentment bubbling just beneath the surface. This idea of, "why do I invest so much effort trying to make my wife/family/friends happy, and they never/rarely do the same for me?" And then the Red Pill will punch you in the face and say: because that's not how it works, you goddamn fucking bitch!

You will probably end up very angry. So I've been watching "Orange Is the New Black" lately, and one of the characters has lived his life as a textbook codependent. At some point, another character says to him:

"You fancy yourself a nice guy, Joe... but you're not. You're a deeply angry and resentful man, because the world hasn't appreciated you the way you think you deserved."

So as a "career beta," the Red Pill is going to hit you especially hard. Whereas "former alphas" may think: "Oh, so I should generally put my best interests first and not feel bad about that. Well, yeah, I knew that, I just thought wives were some weird exception. I'll just stop treating my wife like an exception and boom, Red Pill swallowed."

But your wife isn't an exception, she's just one of many people who have been violating your covert contract. And you'll be pissed as hell, partially because now you realize that any appreciation/generosity/reciprocation you thought you might gotten for your sacrifices, will never be paid back. All that time and effort you spent on other people at the expense of yourself, you'll never get any return dividends on that. You weren't "investing" in your relationships and friendships, you were just giving away your time and attention for nothing, and you associated with people who eagerly accepted it.

Your "nice guy debt" is in default. Permanently.

You'll be angry about this, and that's okay, because you probably can't accept this before getting angry about it first.

But here's the hardest truth that may lead to you being especially angry. It's this truth: the characteristics we generally associate with personal virtue -- kindness, honestly, loyalty, sacrifice, etc -- are basically orthogonal to anything that has to do with attraction. The main TRP subreddit has endless debates about whether being "alpha" means being a selfish dick, and there's always some people who cite some man of very powerful status they know, who is also a kind and respectful individual. That's because "kind and respectful " is literally irrelevant. That person would be a powerful man even if they were abrasive and offensive. He did not become powerful because he was kind and respectful.

Which is why nobody wants to fuck you, the career beta, not even if your wife. Because the traits that make you an attractive individual have nothing to do with whatever traits you developed as a codependent. You're really good at empathizing with people, identifying their problems, reducing their anxiety, and connecting with them emotionally to make them feel loved and safe. They aren't necessarily unattractive, just like being "kind and respectful" isn't necessarily "un-powerful." But they aren't attractive.

TRP (and even MRP) clearly is more cynical about this and I am, but I happen to believe a significant percentage of women are looking for a kind and respectful man. But it's "secondary" criteria. They're looking for a guy who looks like Tom Brady and is kind and generous. You becoming kinder and generouser does not get you any closer to being attractive to those women. The logic is: "filter by Tom Brady lookalikes, then filter by kind and generous." If you're extra-extra-extra-extra kind, you're still not making the cut. That's not how it works.

(con't)

The_Litz · 2015-08-17T11:07:45+00:00

Dude, a lot of the so called "I used to be Alpha, but lost my way" guys here say that to soften the blow on their ego's.

Having said that, some guys have an easier journey as they have not been beaten down too much. Some women, like my wife, have even hinted to me in the past they want me to man up. Especially in leading the clan. They look for that leadership.

The guys that have a tougher journey are the guys who's wifes actually chose them because they were perceived as weak and controlable.

No matter where on the spectrum you fall, EVERYBODY has a tough journey. And it is a journey, not a quick fix.

So man up and become the man you were supposed to be, let your masculinity flow and define you.

If you have a dealbreaker at home, once you don't give a fuck it won't matter and you will be much stronger going into future relationships.

BluepillProfessor · 2015-08-17T15:28:14+00:00

Alpha and Beta are useful labels but they are not a genotype. More important, Alpha and Beta are totally relative. I am basically an uber Alpha- I gave a speech in front of 8,000 people last month, teach college students, lift weights, black belt in karate, arrogant, loud, you name it. I have testified in court more times I can count and have put men in prison and denied women custody of their kids. I should have a great "Red Pill Marriage" from the beginning, right?

Not likely.

Water seeks it's own level. I married a hard charging, ball busting female attorney who makes $200,000.00 a year. She defeated Bluepill me completely. I was so beaten down I almost went postal and had an epic Victim Puke all over the manosphere. In fact, I had a near psychotic break when I discovered The Red Pill so I guess it doesn't get more Beta than that.

In fact I wasn't Beta, I was pure Omega so in a large sense I had a lot further to go than even a career Beta.

dandar4600 · 2015-08-17T12:42:32+00:00

I was a career beta with alpha traits throughout courting and first 5 years of marriage.

Examples of alpha traits:

1) I never mate guarded or showed jealousy. Having said that she made it easy by never going out alone without me.

2) I had a motorcycle until a month before the wedding and active social life until the birth of my daughter 5 years into the marriage.

3) I was obese on my wedding day (5'9 200) but lost 40 pounds 2 years into my marriage.

4) I played sports and hung out with my male friends about 3 times a week until 3 years into my marriage.

5) 3 years into my marriage, I decided to go to college, so I was out of the house in the evenings even more and was surrounded by coeds most of that time.

I guess these were all alpha tendecies. I had no idea about alpha beta dichotomy and did not make a connection between the restarting of blowjobs and me losing weight. It was all very gradual.

It all changed with the birth of my daughter 5 years into the marriage when I became a total beta. I gained 30 pounds, stopped playing sports or hanging out with my friends, college was done so I was home all the time and I let my wife be the full captain.

It's done and over with now. I lost 45 pounds since then and last week started bulking for the first time in my life. I am slowly but surely taking over captain duties. She defers to me allot and I relish making decisions instead of saying whatever you want honey. I recognize shit and comfort tests. I lift. I have hobbies that take me out of the house (cycling.) I condition my availability to my wife's behavior and I always dress well now.

In other words I run my marriage at dread level 5.

rurpe · 2015-08-17T05:15:22+00:00

You are not a special snowflake. You have barely just begun and you have already convinced yourself that your path will be harder than others. At the time of this comment, there are at least two stories from former betas on their way. Read everything and apply what you can.

jcrpta · 2015-08-21T07:09:35+00:00

Found the RP in Athol Kay's books around Christmas 2013. I was in a pretty bad place - frustrated, I think, would be the best word. I felt like a servant in my own home; not only was sex rare, my wife wouldn't even cook dinner without a huge fight. [For the record, I am not suggesting that I got married so I would never have to cook again; I actually enjoy cooking. But that doesn't mean I want to prepare every meal in the house 7 days a week, 365 days a year, which is basically what was happening].

The classic "talk it over with your spouse" partner didn't work simply because no matter what I said, she had an excuse for it that - at first glance was at least superficially reasonable. I now know this was her hamster trying to make me think I was the bastard. And the problem with engaging the hamster is it's like arguing with a computer - it never gets tired of saying no.

I followed the book, but I don't think I was particularly convinced; the thing that changed my mind was when I did a few little things that involved taking charge - and got instant results without any fighting at all.

What sort of things?

Demanding in a firm tone rather than asking in a wheedling tone (something I'd never done before).
Not taking myself too seriously ("hey love, want to come to bed for some mediocre sex?").
Turning a covert contract around (explicitly saying "Keep the house spotlessly clean all week and we'll go out to dinner Friday", as opposed to thinking to myself "if I take her out to dinner, she'll keep the house clean"). This is basically outright bribery, though, and not something you want to use too often.

They're the easy bits; you can do these a couple of times in a weekend and they'll tell you that there may be some truth to this RP stuff.

The difficult bit is what comes next. When you realise you have to basically re-wire your personality so you do those things all the time. And you have to combine this with all the other things you should be doing like losing flab, lifting weight, working on your career - the list goes on and on.

I'm nowhere near where I need to be. I'm seeing good progress, I have an idea what I'm working towards and I'm getting a lot better. I will get there, it just might take a while. The only annoyance is my progress is damn slow, but I think that's partly down to my own nature and partly because I was committing virtually every single sin in MMSLP and WISNIFG.

Title	Career Beta Success Stories?
Author	triclops41
Upvotes	4
Comments	18
Date	August 17, 2015 4:47 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MarriedRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/marriedredpill/comments/3ha2hr/career_beta_success_stories/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MarriedRedPill/career-beta-success-stories.201195 https://theredarchive.com/post/201195