From Rollo

To this

This is a good reminder, why male spaces do better when they are kept as male spaces. When guys are wondering why mods get more stern about it, it's not emotions, frame or somesuch... It's generally fostering a place for guys to do their thing.

It hs to be done, otherwise no one here would be fixing anything, we'd build better plow horses, better betas, and men would be back in the same boat.

enjoy

Yesterday, Athol Kay over at Married Man Sex Life sent out an email stating he is closing his MMSL forum. He said the forum was demanding too much of his time, taking away from his other ventures and his family time. In addition, he apparently suffered a heart attack this year and has been in poor health. I wondered what happened because his blog’s last post was in December 2014. I did not know he was sick and figured he was concentrating on more lucrative endeavors such as his coaching services.

I was disappointed when he stopped posting on his blog. I largely transformed myself prior to hearing of the red pill or the manosphere. However, as I searched for further guidance his was the first resource I found. I learned a lot from Kay and found his writing style and ideas very helpful.

On the other hand I was not fond of the forum. It started out great and a very helpful resource. I visited regularly, but for a long time I thought it had lost much of it’s usefulness. I must not have been alone, I obviously had nothing to do with running the MMSL forum, but as a frequent visitor the number of new threads and posts seemed to have dropped significantly over time.

I believe there were really two issues, one specific to the MMSL forums and one a problem with almost all forums.

No ladies, it’s not…

The issue I found with the MMSL forum was the number of women giving advice to men about how to be men and the men’s sex lives. I believe there was even a female moderator which I found odd considering it was called the Married Man Sex Life forum. Women are not men and should not be giving advice to men about how to be men. Men taking advice from women on marriage, getting laid, or leading a family is a mistake. Women will always have their hamster to deal with, they cannot admit the whole truth behind their actions because then, their secret will be out. One of Athol Kay’s major points over the years was to ignore her words and watch her actions when it comes to wives. A wife may say she doesn’t like this or that in bed, but if you have your shit together, and she is properly aroused, you’d be surprised what wives are capable of. Kind of like the man who never gets blowjobs, anal or whatever it is he is denied by his wife, finding out she is swallowing and taking anal regularly from the guy she met on Facebook. The true statement a wife like this should make is not “I don’t do blowjobs.” It’s “I don’t give blowjobs to beta chumps like you.” Actions, not words. Whatever advice given to men by women about marriage and sex is always going to be given with a feminine filter.

Now that’s some good advice ladies…

I am not saying women can not contribute. I just believe they should have been limited to a specific sub section for men who are specifically seeking their advice on something. I would even have liked to see a sub forum for red pill women trying to get their beta husbands to man the fuck up and lead their families. Women definitely should not have been given the title of forum moderator, lording over the thoughts and comments of men on a men’s site. As every man knows, once women insert themselves into men’s spaces the atmosphere, language and dynamics change. Generally killing the draw of men to the previously male space. I am not the only one who thought the female takeover was detrimental to the forum, this has been discussed by many, including here over at The Rational Male.

The other issue with forums is the tendency for a few members to essentially take over and crown themselves as “experts.” “Newbies” are shouted down or lectured to “use the search function before asking a question” (most forum search functions suck by the way). When a few take over and dominate a forum the message gets stale. What starts out as a source for good advice turns into the newbie being a dumbass for not knowing all. Often one is ridiculed or accused of being a troll for asking a question he “should know the answer to.” This drives many to be lurkers and simply peruse the posts without commenting, or contributing, because it’s not worth the headache of being ripped for daring to disagree with a member who has achieved “senior” status.

Many forums are topic specific whether it’s cars, sex, religion whatever. A guy who owns a jeep that has the “death wobble” (if you know jeeps you know what I’m talking about) will go to a jeep forum and ask for advice, direction and help. Many times he will be greeted with sarcasm, lectures about using a search function, being told “If you want a good ride buy an Explorer, you have no business in a jeep.” These things are not helpful and discourage participation. It ends up with the “cool kids” just talking amongst themselves and the forum’s usefulness dies.

As a side note, think about someone who has time to check a forum daily, comment on dozens of posts and work and take care of a family… Oh wait, you can’t do that? Neither can I. I am too busy living my life. If someone is claiming to be an expert on being red pill or awesome at marriage, yet spending way too much time on a forum belittling posters, I question their expertise. If you are living your life correctly, you don’t have time to spend hours posting on forums.

My observations are not sour grapes, I have posted very sparingly on a few forums and never been flamed for my comments. I did fat finger a senior poster one time on MMSL and somehow hit the disagree button while posting my agreement with his comment. He nearly had a stroke because I hit the disagree button apparently without reading my comment agreeing with him.

How dare a man with such a low post count hit the disagree button on a senior poster? The balls on this guy! Oh… you agree with me…? Damn… Should’ve read your post…

All this being said, I hope Athol Kay recovers from his illness. I love his work, his blog, and wish he would go back to posting more. He has a great message needed by many men in this world. Kay may have been accused of being “purple pill” and allowing women to take over the forum was, in my opinion, not a good idea, but he has some great information and for those who need help. I like that he focuses on married men, that can be hard to find. Also, he does not have the hate for women some in the manosphere seem to harbor. As a married man, married to a pretty low maintenance old lady for almost 25 years now, I can’t hold that much hate against her. It wasn’t always sunshine and rainbows for us, but much of that was my laziness I acquired within our marriage. Once I corrected course everything fell into place. That’s what Athol Kay can provide, a map to where most men want to be in their marriage. I wish him well and hope he continues to spread the word to men who need it.