When the community on r-psychology is arguing gender issues 30 upvotes | February 10, 2021 | by DistrictAccurate ------------------------- https://np.reddit.com/comments/lf12er/_/ So, the psychology subreddit shared a study that had something to do with masculinity, so it does not surprise that we received some... interesting insight in how certain people perceive society. What does surprise though, is that people are so invested to push their "femininity is seen as negative and not only when perfomed by men"-theory which I, in the way it is presented here, consider to be simply ignorant towards reality. This was in response to men reacting aggressively in response to threatening their masculinity and women not doing the same. Comments then argued if the women's reaction might be influenced by womanhood being seen as negative which would therefore make questioning it less severe if not positive. Men's behaviour was obviously called the same thing that everything even remotely in connection to men is called now - toxic masculinity: The number one label every manifestation of misandry is thrown into but magically swapped with misogyny when being asked to define it. Men who'd like to be treated equally hate that trick. Even a mod had to step in and pin a comment reading that that conclusion of femininity=bad modulating the sample's behaviour is not supported by the provided paper. But it still remains that the comment section circlejerked further down the "men are negatively affected by backfiring misogyny and not misandry" kinda road, even if that is not a quote from the thread. Instead of citing evidence on the women are wonderful effect, the reactions of victims, bystanders, perpetrators, judges and so on regarding male victims and female perps of sexual and physical violence up to death, the perception of studies showing discrimination against men as less sound and relevant and so on, they instead only cite a study on the overestimation of times women interrupted men 25 years ago. Some then report that women would stop playing with barbies and resent pink to distance themselves from what is feminine as that is deemed ugly by society and we underpay jobs requiring empathy in an reaction to it being a typically feminine trait... I still do not know how the perception of women with thicc beards and full body hair, burping and farting women, women using vulgar language, women showing typically masculine interests like cars and sports and so on fits the "masculine good, feminine bad" theory they attempt to use to describe the expectations put on _both_ men and women, but I doubt anyone really cares to educate me on that without attempting to use history books to not just explain, but to instead prove their concept of society being actually present. This is obviously impossible. You can use history to explain how we got to the current situation, but you still have to be able to prove that said situation is even present. If that is not possible, your explanation does not change anything about that, no matter how plausible it might sound. And we also have to be careful not to just selectively search for only the things we assume to be plausible based on our current limited knowledge. It is similar to the weather forecast in a way - you can calculate a lot regarding temps, rain and whatnot, but in the end the actual data will decide if it actually holds up. Many misandrists like to just search for a way to reason whatever values they'd like and skip looking out of the window for fear of being proven wrong. I'd argue that men and women are shamed for not living up to their respective expectations and as long as you do not limit your theory to things like masculinity = rationality and femininity = emotionality, which fails to address the bigger picture, I doubt that acting typically masculine would be widely regarded as positive in women. And for the most part acting in a rational manner is seen as advantageous in everyone for it being considered superior in many job contexts, not for it being considered masculine. Even if it is considered masculine at the same time, I doubt it to be a valid symptom of femininity being seen as inferior. And I also proactively disagree that the emotionality trait was given women based on it being the inferior one, considering that women are more open regaring (showing) their emotions and receive less negative feedback or even strong support and protection in response to it. It does benefit them in ways it does not for men, and it does hurt men in ways it does not for women. It is not surprising at all that they are therefore facing these assumptions, nor that they do better in job environments when presenting themselves more rational and calculated. Anyway, what is your take on this? Do you think these one-sided views being popular in psychology-forums is problematic and do you have any ideas to address the issue? ------------------------- Archived from https://theredarchive.com/post/1061955