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9Choronzon Archive

View 0 posts and 139 comments by 9Choronzon on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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2

discrimination based on size But that's understandable. On a physical level, a fat woman may not be as effective in many positions, and her physical state is often seen as giving clues to other undesirable traits (which may be the case, unless it can be proven otherwise). This isn't the same as discrimination on the basis of something you were born as and cannot change. how our understanding of attractiveness is affected by social factors If there's evidence that obesity has ever been found to b…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/15 03:52 PM
1

Well done misrepresenting the argument by quoting half of it. satisfy the multiple demands of her hypergamy No man would seek the traits of daring and bold, but dependable, challenging and cocky, but forgiving and affectionate.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/15 03:45 PM
6

Except those people are creating a victim category for themselves. Overweight women are considered unnattractive because they're overweight - trying to put that next to actual oppression, even suggesting that they're on the same spectrum, reveals how deeply self centered and ridiculous those people are.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/15 12:11 PM
0

The most common answer, as we're already seeing, will be for women to simply take the best traits of both categories and combine them into the ultimate man - a perfect balance of alpha/beta traits. I'm reminded of that answer to the old question 'what do women want?' - MORE. As TRP would say, this is a woman's attempt to best satisfy the multiple demands of her hypergamy. Still, they're clearly right - that is the best answer. I'd imagine those men that truly fit into all relevant categories are…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/15 11:29 AM
1

Ahem, women aged 15-50 went crazy over him He's an extremely 'high status' man (despite being fictional) both in terms of the abilities of the character and the sheer fame of the series. When women of all ages start displaying a general sexual preference for average 18 year olds, then its worth talking about.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/02/15 10:25 AM
2

There is no proof that it is in any way "natural." From the article's conclusion: "The empirical evidence supports the evolution-based hypothesis that men have evolved a more powerful desire for a variety of sex partners than have women". Where is the proof that this is a general rule? Also from the article: "Two universal clusters of sex differences are the desire for youth and beauty (men value more than women) and the desire for a mate who has good financial prospects and elevated social stat…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/15 04:54 PM
1

Dude, read what you wrote. You can pretty much just ask them I wasn't disputing that women enjoy, or are interested in, having sex. The point was clearly to show that saying things are as simple as 'just asking them' is oversimplifying and demonstrably ineffective. Saying what Patrice did is easy because 'you can pretty much just ask' totally ignores what happens when you actually do 'just ask'. This study has been repeated many times, by the way, it's results aren't specific to this year or loc…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/15 04:25 PM
1

riiiiight http://www2.hawaii.edu/~elaineh/79.pdf
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/15 12:17 PM
4

But that isn't what the journal article is saying. Its saying precisely that the greater desire for sexual partners in men is natural instinct - that its a consequence of our evolution. Adding 'some' before everything is uneeded, there will always be outliers, but that does not disprove the general rule.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/15 11:20 AM
5

Okay, so if I say this: 'Women value money more than men in a potential partner. Men care more about a woman's body. Men naturally desire more sexual variety than women, but are sexually jealous as a means of guarding against the very real possibility of a woman cuckolding them' and then I cite this: http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/Group/BussLAB/pdffiles/strategies_of_human_mating2006.pdf Do you have a problem with this?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/15 11:08 AM
10

The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist. And I don’t like taking part in creating fictions about my life So people who don't like creating fictions in their own lives should dictate to others on the sort of fictions they create in their own, and although they don't think something should exist at all, they are the ones to decide that it should change and that it is going to, rather than not partaking in it. Alrighty then.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/15 10:56 AM
1

there is still no backing for the Evo psych obsession Could you expand on that?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/15 09:00 AM
1

Yeah having a girlfriend whose hotter than you whilst organising threesomes is a hassle
/r/PurplePillDebate12/02/15 08:45 AM
3

One of the things my dad taught me about how to build a strong character was to tell the Microscopic Truth. Not just being honest, but pushing yourself to say what's uncomfortable to say, to learn to search your mind to its limits so you don't hang on to any bullshit Do all this for yourself, women aren't the goal, this is what they want, but hide it like you're hiding porn from your mom You need some Patrice O'neal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5EZCHbu6tQ
/r/PurplePillDebate11/02/15 08:53 AM
1

Looks like just another way of saying that sexual strategy isn't a singular thing, but can be divided (not always strictly, however) into categories resembling monogamy and polygamy or long term and short term strategies. In men, this is most clearly seen in the madonna/whore dichotomy, with the 'madonna' being the long term, monogamous, high investment end and the 'whore' representing the short term, polygamous and low investment side. Most men display some desire for both. In women this dual s…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/02/15 10:26 AM
1

Matches where the man is 5 or so years older than the woman are pretty much matches of the same age I'd say that's a fairly significant age difference. In 32.3% of marriages, men are 4-5 years older or more. Marriages where the woman is 4-5 years older or more make up 7.6%. Men simply show a much greater preference for younger partners, just as TRP would predict. In women, such a preference is extremely rare, even 2 years below their own age is rare in comparison. They are much more likely to en…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/02/15 10:18 AM
1

But its still a fair argument. One person's 'equal relationship' is another person's prison. A woman's perception of 'emotionally open' could be a guy feeding her bullshit. There is no way of knowing with such studies.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/15 04:12 PM
1

When their fertility drops, there is a noticeable decline in looks. This usually occurs around 28-35 and affects some women more than others. TRP emphasises this as such a huge value loss as looks are such a major part of male attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/15 04:06 PM
2

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see how that comic makes any sort of sense as a critique. The point of evolutionary theories of behaviour is that they actually make some sort of sense - for instance, women being more selective in partner choice due to the greater risks they take on in pregnancy. The idea that babies were used as footballs makes no sense, in any way. How does that act as a critique of the field?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/15 03:51 PM
3

How is it? The total percentage of wives 2 or more years older than their husbands is about 14%. The percentage of men 2 or more years older than their wives is almost 53%. Most men still marry women younger than they are, just not predominantly by a great many years. A huge majority of women show a preference for at least same-age or older men, and a much greater percentage of men show a preference for significantly younger partners (than women do for significantly younger men). This is pretty …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/15 10:00 AM
1

Used up like best years gone.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/15 09:20 AM
2

Empathy is one thing, casting her as a total victim with no responsibility is another, imo. I did not find him attractive, but because I had accepted his affections he had assumed so She talks about herself as though she has no ability to do anything about anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/02/15 08:55 AM
5

when I read that story I saw the girl as the victim Wasn't she the one that 'gave in'
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 06:17 PM
2

So its just a coincidence that gay men prioritise their libido much more highly than straight men? How would you account for the difference?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 06:05 PM
2

Basically this comes down to red pills basic premise failure. Red pill guys all come from the same sex-obsessed mindset and wrongly conclude that all men are like them Out of interest, how would you explain gay male promiscuity rates? They tend to be far, far higher than in heterosexual couplings. If the reduced rate of heterosexual male promiscuity relative to homosexual is not due to female selectivity, what exactly is causing it?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 05:07 PM
5

I don't believe it, but okay
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 04:27 PM
1

I can tell they are the residue of the system just by reading what they write and comparing it against the experiences of men I know Enjoy your confirmation bias. Maybe you'd like to englighten us to "the more usual ways of being attractive" so we can learn something about these men you know. If you think that simply saying to these guys that it is all their fault all along for not trying hard enough is going to mean the more prominently identified red pill personalities aren't ever going to end…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 04:17 PM
5

What is the point of sex without love, it is just in and out into a warm body, more tiresome than enjoyable You're a woman aren't you?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 03:18 PM
1

In so far as the word "knowledge" has any meaning, the world is knowable; but it is interpretable otherwise, it has no meaning behind it, but countless meanings.—"Perspectivism." It is our needs that interpret the world; our drives and their For and Against. Every drive is a kind of lust to rule; each one has its perspective that it would like to compel all the other drives to accept as a norm - Friedrich Nietzsche
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 11:14 AM
9

get close and personal with women, develop a personal empathic understanding, kinda walk in their shoes and so on and then you don't need any strategy because it all works natural And what of the men who do this and still can't get laid? Developing a connection with a woman, or trying to, often leads to the precise opposite of sexual fufilment.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 10:48 AM
3

You're making two wrong assumptions here. you're assuming many of the men attracted to TRP are the 'residue of the system'. They are the product of the system. They didn't do 'too little too late', they did all they were told to do, they became good working men. They don't have an 'inability to detect problems', they detected them, and realised that the mainstream advice to solve such problems did nothing for them. Realised 'there will be someone for you if you stop obsessing', 'be yourself' ect…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 10:35 AM
2

Those people aren't actually putting effort into themselves and no 'TRP mentor' would advocate that.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 09:42 AM
1

I don't think this is very likely, depending on the age of the man. How long does it really take to become physically fit? In most cases its going to be worth it, unless the guy is already on the way out. How long does it take to make considerably more money? Longer, but at that point you could always go the sugar daddy/hoe route depending on your preference. Few men are going to regret putting more time and effort into working on themselves. What would be the alternative anyway? Don't improve, …
/r/PurplePillDebate04/02/15 09:18 AM
1

Why? Because they feel that despite having ran the show for the last... I'd say there's a good number of men who would describe themselves as RP who don't even agree with this statement.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/15 10:50 AM
5

I think it's weird that RPers view social things like a strict contract. You can't possibly work under the assumption that other people will honor your idea of what you are owed Likely because this is how many men are actually socialised, "you should work hard as there are rewards". But most of the RP actually revolves around debunking this, stating that this is no longer true in the modern world and that men should therefore work towards their own best interests only. Ironically, I'd say most R…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/02/15 10:00 AM
1

You're right of course, but he also linked to Heartiste...I guess I just saw this and read a greater depth into 'want'.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/15 01:15 PM
1

I don't think what's being referred to here is a matter of conscious decision making.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/01/15 09:38 AM
2

Its not really for her to say what information he does and does not need. They may have been together for years, but he was clearly not as happy as she assumed him to be.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/15 03:53 PM
1

tl;dr - Man unconsciously applies RP principles throughout his life, gets laid a lot and then greatly overrates the average partner count/ability to get laid on this basis
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/15 11:53 AM
1

But you're acting like these two situations are comparable when they are not. One is an attempt to gain any intimacy at all, the other is a selection process. If a guy is struggling to get laid then he is likely unable to get much physical/romantic attention at all. A woman 'struggling' to settle down is likely declining many men because they don't meet her standards, engaging in casual and short term arrangements when and where she wants while waiting for that 'special' guy to come along. You'r…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/01/15 09:37 AM
0

Maybe not so bad if the alternative is a capitalist who shouts 'you just fear competition!' while ripping up the land and making it progressivley unlivable for the people who actually keep society running.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/15 12:44 PM
4

Its far more likely that these girls are fielding offers from unsatisfactory men all the time, declining a great many and waiting for the 'right' guy to come along (and also probably do all the work in the interaction) while they complain they can't find a 'decent' man. Many of the men complaining are talking about an actual inability to get laid, not a selection process.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/15 12:21 PM
3

In fact it looks like 71% of all people, men included, cohabitate or are married. That is hardly the 80/20 split Which pretty clearly demonstrates that a small minority of women are slutting it up, not 80% of us I think you've misunderstood the 80/20 rule. As far as I understand it, 80/20 represents (as a rough estimation based on the pareto principle) the idea that a top percentage of men make up the majority of hookups, i.e. novel sexual experiences, while the great majority go with little asi…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/01/15 12:13 PM
6

This, see also: high status, attractive musicians singing sappy love songs about how they'll love you forever baby girrrl
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/15 10:28 AM
2

"great technology comes mostly from men" I think that was actually what was being said
/r/PurplePillDebate27/01/15 09:16 AM
2

And as the sexual selectors, women can enforce male roles sexually, even as they denounce them socially.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/15 02:54 PM
1

And surely, looks are a bigger priority to most women... hence why the 'bad boy' with no genuine status (and this would include some DJs, plenty of rock band members etc) will get found attractive Why do you assume these 'bad boy' men are good looking? There are plenty of ugly men in bands. I'm fairly undecided on the issue, but I lean towards thinking there is something about status that women consider genuinely "hot". Young girls go mad for guys in boy bands and, while they are certainly good …
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/15 01:12 PM
16

Exactly this. Women's 'dry spells' are in no way equivalent to men's. There are always men around who they could fuck just by saying the word, but they don't want those men.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/15 12:58 PM
1

Have you seen how the evolution of intelligence follows a normal distribution, meaning we have plenty of species who around about as smart as a six year old human? Yeah, me neither, because it is not actually so But this is actually so. As far as I'm aware, plenty of animals are considered as smart as young children, including primates, dolphins, dogs and crows. Crows have been shown to pass certain reasoning tests at the same level as seven year olds. Whether or not they actually have conscious…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/15 12:19 PM
21

If a girl is legitimately 'gorgeous', willing to at least do some of the work and can't get laid from a club or online dating virtually anytime she wants, something is badly wrong. Like, genitals give off the smell of roadkill wrong. Its far more likely that these girls are fielding offers from unsatisfactory men all the time, declining a great many and waiting for the 'right' guy to come along (and also probably do all the work in the interaction) while complaining about their 'dry spell'.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/15 09:42 AM
1

Nature does not matter I don't know how anyone could seriously assert this.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/01/15 08:53 AM
1

Tell that to swingers who watch their woman get banged by another guy and still keep the relationship alive
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/15 08:47 PM
1

cause thats the way your woman likes to fuck you What if you're face down, ass up cause that's the way you like your woman to fuck you
/r/PurplePillDebate24/01/15 04:11 PM
1

that doesn't change the fact that the head mod and ECs regularly voice these ideas, call them "the truth" and get highly upvoted in the community So ask them for the statistics/studies/research that they base this on. No, but it does make you hesitate to believe them so readily, doesn't it? ;) Of course not, you just read the evidence and judge each idea on its merits
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 04:57 PM
1

but isn't that happening regardless of whether you acknowledge it or not? When a man wants to sleep with a woman, in some sense he sees her as a goal. He wants to sleep with her, he usually has to do something to get what he wants. He then decides what he's going to do about it. Does any of this have to mean that he also doesn't care about her? You could even go further and say that those caring feelings are just nature's way of making us reach the 'goal'.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 04:47 PM
1

Maybe strategies get a bad rap because once someone identifies a strategy as ethical, they no longer identify it as a strategy I think you're probably right. If a BP guy observed a RP guy flirting using basic game concepts, I very much doubt they'd immediately label it as a cynical strategy, even if the RP guy thought of it in that way. Some of this seems to be in the eye of the beholder, a classic 'is the action the problem or is the intent the problem?' question. If a guy consciously teases a …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 04:38 PM
1

there would have been little advantage to focusing on the individual status of a mate since resources were shared equally This is still an argument that resources = status. I'm saying there is often an association between the two, but that social behaviours can equally signal status, and that these indicators can trigger physical attraction. For instance, you're also arguing: The valuable skills were size, speed, endurance, and intellect But some of these are qualities that don't relate directly…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 02:24 PM
2

Yeah I never really understand that. Even within a RP context I'd think stuff like holding frame/maintaining value should always be more important than the specifics of sexual acts. I just put it down to the same mentality that leads to some radical feminists shaming intercourse.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 01:48 PM
3

I guess...not sure why you'd blame TRP as a whole though
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 01:14 PM
2

Many BP (as far as I have observed) would likely state that any use of a 'strategy' is in itself the wrong way of going about things, subscribing to the view that all people are individuals and therefore should be treated on a purely case by case basis. This doesn't really help out with the virginity thing of course.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 12:22 PM
4

Why would TRP necessarily be opposed to pegging
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 12:15 PM
4

wat
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 12:04 PM
1

Copying my response to EnderVaped: The 80/20 rule is actually just the Pareto principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle) applied to the ‘sexual market’. The principle states that for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes (i.e. "80% of your sales come from 20% of your clients") This is why the split seems pretty arbitrary, it’s not an exact measurement, but a rough guide based on a pre-existing principle, the idea being that a top percentage of men mak…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 11:06 AM
1

The 80/20 rule is actually just the Pareto principle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle) applied to the ‘sexual market’. The principle states that for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes (i.e. "80% of your sales come from 20% of your clients") This is why the split seems pretty arbitrary, it’s not an exact measurement, but a rough guide based on a pre-existing principle, the idea being that a top percentage of men make up the majority of hook-ups (nove…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/01/15 11:03 AM
2

which I was checking I understood correctly You didn't understand it correctly because you were unfamiliar with the meaning of the concept - a concept you just dismissed as nonsense as if you understood it entirely. Maybe people are telling you 'you just don't understand the red pill' because you actually have no understanding of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/15 04:19 PM
1

First you say this: I think even the Red Pill has abandoned that 80/20 nonsense and now this What proportion of 'top men' are having 80% of the sex sorry? You think that people using Red Pill tactics are having 80% of the sex? You've clearly demonstrated you have no idea what the 80/20 principle is even meant to represent. You should try to make an effort to at least understand RP ideas if you're going to debate them.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/15 01:44 PM
1

Any source on this change? Cause that's interesting if so. I assume we're both talking about 80/20 in terms of amount of sex had, not in terms of 20% of men 'taking' 80% of women off the market.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/15 01:08 PM
14

What if I tell you, "My boyfriend did this, and it worked"? RP men would still rather ask the boyfriend. Its entirely possible he has a very different idea of what he did. It'd be pretty interesting to match the stories really.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/15 10:34 AM
2

The general idea seems to be 80/20 in favour of the top men (who are not necessarily 'red pill' in a conscious sense), not 100/0 in favour of guys identifying as RP. I've never seen anyone claim that because it would be ridiculous.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/15 09:23 AM
1

which leads me to believe he is in fact claiming this to be the truth He is, but not in a debate context. I don't know what's hard to understand about this. If this was posted on an athiest sub, 'this is one of those fundamental truths about history that the religious and creationists will do their best to deny', would you immediately say that it was all anecdotal story telling with no evidence? Or would you ask 'do you have any evidence for this?' Also, the dismissal of one RP principle does no…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/01/15 09:14 AM
2

The only actual argument (though it does not give a source) you've pointed out here is this one: Women are machiavellian in nature, this means they are comparatively proficient at being manipulative versus the typical male. The evolutionary theoretical basis for this is due to smaller size and inferior musculature women had to learn to use men as tools rather than directly oppose them in a physical conflict (as they would undoubtedly lose in all but very few scenarios) this makes the pronunciati…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/15 07:02 PM
1

But that's my argument No, your argument is that women adapt through logically contemplating the situation. I was suggesting that women's attraction triggers may adapt on the basis of environment, i.e. that in a less prosperous context women find indicators of status to be more physically attractive. But this is a moot point, as you're arguing that women don't actually find status physically attractive at all, so I'll address that instead. The choice to pursue social status (high income) individ…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/15 05:02 PM
4

I don't think they're claiming to be right without evidence. Pick fault with various studies, use of statistics and evolutionary arguments if you want, but to say its all just anecdotal story telling is just wrong, or deliberately focusing on only the dumbest RP contributors.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/15 03:41 PM
5

Who says that the TBP experience is 'the general rule'? Without evidence, its just a clash of anecdotally informed beliefs, both susceptible to confirmation bias. This is why TRP bases its principles on what it considers to be biological differences. I agree that the TRP would get a lot less flak if it didn't generalise, but if you're talking about an underlying biological predisposition (which TRP as I understand it is) then generalising within certain groups (i.e. young, fertile women) is pret…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/15 12:20 PM
1

I think what DaThrowaway means is that the TRP believes it is the man's responsibility to maintain the relationship in normal daily life - holding frame, passing shit tests, making decisions ect. Failing this in major ways is likely to result in a loss of attraction, which will sometimes lead to the woman leaving her man, depending on the severity of the behaviour, how prolonged it is, and the level of prior investment she has in him. This situation, a debilitating accident or illness, is not a …
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/15 10:34 AM
7

I’m interested in the general rule, since it, – and not the exceptions to it – help to better predict an outcome - Rollo Tomassi
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/15 09:52 AM
8

I was under the impression that AWALT effectively refers to 'all women you'd be interested in', meaning attractive, fertile women (and in many cases, primarily western women also). Mainly because KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR THOSE GOOD, LOYAL 4 YEAR OLDS IN THE CLUB BRAH makes absolutely no goddamn sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/01/15 08:59 AM
1

'm-my partner breathed heavily on my anus...at first I thought it was an accident but he...he kept doing it...I was rendered mute, incapable of communicating his terrible violation...then....then.....he gently, lovingly licked the edge of my balloon knot. I was unable to put into words how sick it made me feel'
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 07:39 PM
1

Its not just more common, its distinct. Ball hitting is deriving pleasure from pain. That is not the purpose of anal, unless its done without lube.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 07:31 PM
1

well that's true, but makes no mention of how utterly fringe ball hitting is. I can't believe I'm actually trying to argue that assplay is generally more pleasurable, more normal and a fairly distinct type of sexual activity from being hit in the fucking bollocks. I think that may be enough reddit for one day.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 07:19 PM
2

Well I may be wrong, but I was under the assumption that ass related antics can be pleasurable because they can actually be pleasurable, whereas getting hit in the balls is only pleasurable to those who enjoy pain.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 06:56 PM
1

That's a false equivalence and you know it.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 06:50 PM
2

I think the first issue would be whether the sexual preferences she's dealing with are actually at all representative of repressed male urges at large, or if they're simply a fringe group who she sees constantly and has thus come to believe represents all men. I think the second is she assumes a feminist explanation for this occurrence. Lets hypothetically say that most men are indeed repressing these urges, feminism would likely explain it as the fault of strictly enforced gender roles. TRP, by…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 06:44 PM
1

How is she supposed to know if she likes it if she's never had the booty treated right?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 06:23 PM
4

In the words of the late, great Patrice O'neal - 'do assholey things' No whining or moaning about it, no talk at all. Certainly no talk about the ex boyfriend getting "more anal". Instead, do assholey things. When you're going down on her, breath heavily on it. Stroke the area. Maybe lick around it. To quote Patrice again 'any woman who doesn't like her asshole eaten is an asshole'. Make her hugely aroused, and bring her to orgasm, while stimulating the ass area. Eventually, she'll grow more acc…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 04:34 PM
1

Well, you likely read a lot more than most then
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 01:27 PM
1

Buss’s cross-cultural questionnaire study of 37 societies showed that women in all of them placed a higher value on the financial prospects of a prospective mate than men did I'd say the quoted has some bearing on it. But whatever, any further discussion would just be debating the veracity of the source anyway.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 01:08 PM
1

I'm not sure what you mean, as I've already provided one link and quoted from it. Here it is again: http://www.anthro.utah.edu/PDFs/ec_evolanth.pdf
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 12:15 PM
1

I think many of its tenets can be useful to help structure and consider alternate views on other topics, such as human history. This article, for instance, would likely be described by many as having red pill leaning conclusions: http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/is-there-anything-good-about-men-and-other-tricky-questions/?_r=0
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 12:14 PM
1

I'd still say the available evidence suggests women prefer men of higher status and indicators of higher status, when they have the choice. I've yet to see anything that firmly suggests otherwise, or convincingly argues that men are equal in this desire. But still, more study is definitely needed (if it doesn't already exist) to link higher status to actual physical arousal in women, across cultural/economic contexts (to prevent self reported preference being due entirely to a particular enivorn…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 12:02 PM
1

Agreed, hence the need to prove/disprove actual physical desire based on status indicators.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 11:40 AM
1

What you're assuming is that this is because women can't This isn't an assumption, if social status is more equal women won't be able to marry up in large numbers. The men don't exist for it to be possible. Whether they still desire to or not is the question, and there is little proof except for the studies I have linked to, such as this: Females in a wide variety of species (insects, birds, mammals) prefer males with resources, and the same is true for humans. Buss’s cross-cultural questionnair…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 10:57 AM
1

Because you can't prove the act, which is the literal definition You can prove the act just fine. In the past, with a generally bigger gap in female/male status, women married up routinely. As women gain more status, there are fewer opportunities to marry up, women marry up less. But this alone proves nothing. Only the motivation behind the actions will tell us what's actually happening here. Any sources that female hypergamy is "in some sense related to biology"? Following the Wikipedia link wo…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 10:43 AM
1

It might have been frowned upon and gotten him a bad reputation, but men were rarely severely punished for or physically prevented from abandoning their partners. Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that (at least in Victorian England) a man who ceased providing for his family was actually breaking the law and could be arrested and sentenced to hard labour. I was writing from this assumption, but I'm having a hard time finding evidence one way or the other.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 10:25 AM
1

That depends very much on how strict the definition of 'class' is. Is, for instance, a $5000-$10,000 difference in earnings or saved assets a difference in class? I would say not, but its still a distinct difference. 'Potential' and 'experience' also relates to what a man could be earning, a man 7 years or more a woman's senior may be seen as a better prospect due to impending promotion, career options ect. that a woman 7 years younger is less likely to have/be close to.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 10:21 AM
1

hypergamy is the act of marrying up, not the desire to I'm starting to think proving/disproving the desire is the only important thing. For instance, in an enivornment where male status greatly outstrips female, women almost have no choice but to marry up, if they marry at all. Past practices of marrying up don't necessarily prove a desire to do so. If we're arguing whether or not women actually 'are' hypergamous, in some sense related to biology and the choices they are likely to make, data on …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 10:21 AM
1

disproves the idea that all women [biologically] seek a provider well, it disproves the idea that all women seek a provider in an environment where a provider is not required. There's nothing to say that, placed in a less prosperous environment, these same women wouldn't adapt to that. It also doesn't disprove the idea that women actually find men of higher status more attractive generally, without more data on women in breadwinner roles it would be impossible to say. What age are they, predomin…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 09:54 AM
1

Not neccessarily, it could equally mean that there are just less relatively rich men to go around. If women are in general of a lower class than most men, then it will be easy for the majority of them to marry up. But if women's own education/status/wealth is increasing to the levels of men, or even surpassing them, opportunities to marry up in a class sense will simply be far more rare. This does not disprove the idea that women find higher status men more attractive, or generally seek them out…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 09:32 AM
1

Maybe not, but an older man will typically have greater status/experience/earning potential and possibly saved assets than a younger man. There's no direct proof, but its interesting that as opportunities to marry up in class decrease, age gaps actually increase.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 09:10 AM
1

Do you not think that by chasing the absolute highest value males in the vicinity (and only them) that a woman has an evolutionary advantage over her competition? Please tell us what exactly is wrong with this statement then
/r/PurplePillDebate20/01/15 09:05 AM
0

That's interesting stuff, and I agree on the adaptability front. As women rise in status/wealth generally, its inevitable that the numbers who marry up will reduce (though I think it would be wrong to immediately conclude that this is due to a lack of desire to do so). Even if the percentage isn't yet large, women who actively desire to be the breadwinners is an interesting development, though other factors still need to be considered. For instance, the previous Guardian source stated this: So s…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 07:36 PM
0

How does it prove anything more than that women's own social status/wealth has been increasing? More women in higher education/high paying jobs means less opportunity to marry up, meaning less rags-to-riches stories and more women forced to choose men of the same or lower social class. It doesn't prove women don't marry up when they can.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 06:23 PM
2

Unless there's some proof that women marry up with no desire to do so, does it matter much? Maybe it does need a new term to be coined. Still, I don't see how something being rare (particularly as it seems to be an effect of women's own increasing social status) tells us that it is not happening, particularly when other factors (age, smaller gaps in income, resources accrued that she does not have, other forms of social status) are not taken into account.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 06:20 PM
1

Oh shit, well in that case go for it. In fact, I think that structure would make a lot of sense for a lot of people, provided the man had the resources for it. It was probably often the case in the past, where marriage was seen as a more practical endeavor, I recall reading the majority of men used prostitutes.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 06:09 PM
1

well from your source: The biggest growth has been among husbands seven or more years older, which has almost doubled across the generations to a fifth of the married women born between 1976-1981. A possible compensatory movement to balance for the increasing lack of oppertunities to straightforwardly 'marry up'? Just a theory, but if you can't marry someone of a different class, marrying someone signficantly older who has been working longer isn't a bad second choice. As for direct sources, Wik…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 04:53 PM
2

You're probably right, but I don't think marriages back then were primarily about romantic love, or even bonding in the way we'd think of it today. It was likely more about actual survival, big families a necessity that required a near constantly pregnant wife and a near constantly working man in order to operate. The woman no doubt had less rights, but the man was no more free to walk away from providing for her than she from him.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 04:37 PM
2

Social scientist Dr Catherine Hakim, author of Honey Money, said: "There is plenty of evidence that most women aspire to marry a wealthy man. But it is a logical impossibility for all women to marry the same few rich guys. So everyone else – the 'losers' in the marriage rat race – has to marry equal or down. As women become better educated, and start to outnumber men among higher education students, it becomes impossible for all to marry an even more highly educated and high-earning spouse, so t…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 04:25 PM
3

This is a perfectly nice idea in theory, the imbalance comes from the fact that for most women getting casual sex is way easier than it is for most men. If you already had an arrangement set up (i.e a girlfriend on the side, while she has a boyfriend) then it could work fine. But if you simply open up the relationship ('we both do our home duties and can sleep with whoever on the side') most men would just be totally outmatched. The woman could easily have a constant stream of one night stands/c…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 04:12 PM
2

I never said it doesn't exist, but it's not just women, it's people. No one doubts that all people desire to 'marry up', but hypergamy refers to wealth/status specifically. When men express a desire to 'marry up' its usually in terms of looks/youth. I'd say that reveals a pretty big difference, even if most are unable to marry outside their league.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 02:41 PM
2

couldn't that just be a consequence of most people being unable to have what they actually want? If women are still 'marrying up' when they actually can, it doesn't really disprove hypergamy's existence.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 01:31 PM
1

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2145060/Tom-Cruise-dismisses-idea-youthful-appearance-plastic-surgery.html Well Tom Cruise would say different, not that you have to take his word for it. Here's an article that claims women are 'finally' ageing better than men: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2267050/Good-news-girls---FINALLY-ageing-better-men-10-women-worry-partner-leave-younger-model.html But look at that comparison, its Cindy Crawford (46) a clearly heavily made up super…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 01:27 PM
3

You don't think women have a general tendency to 'marry up', seeking men of higher status than themselves? I've definitely seen research supporting this and wonder how you draw your own conclusions?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 12:08 PM
1

I disagree entirely, ideas themselves are not a problem. If you have an issue with the idea of dual sexual strategy itself, take it up with the universities that conduct research into it (such as here: http://www.epjournal.net/wp-content/uploads/EP07160163.pdf or here: http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/comm/haselton/papers/downloads/pillsworth_haseltonARSR.pdf) Whether or not you use the idea to generalise to all women in all contexts is your own decision. Furthermore, I would say that if we don't gene…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 11:40 AM
1

I remember seeing an argument about approaching, where the whole 'why can't women just approach men? Why can't we just encourage women to approach men they find attractive/get men to stop bothering women?' thing was wheeled out. This post basically explains why and its great
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 10:37 AM
1

But his healthy sperm are diminishing with every year Its been a while since I read about sperm quality and age, but from what I recall the difference it makes is no where near as great as a woman's age. Regardless, a 25 year old impregnated by a 35-40 year old shouldn't be a problem on either end. you can't honestly say that a man who is 10-15 years older (as you said) is going to look as good as his younger counterpart. Not all men by any means, but its definitely a possibility (particularly i…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 09:53 AM
3

I don't know how you can possibly assert that. What evidence do you have that men didn't care about 'her' in general. You could just as easily reverse that: "Maybe she would take care of the man she thought was ordained to protect her, maybe she was even fond of him, but she didn't respect him. She didn't value him, any comparably hard working and providing male would work".
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 09:31 AM
2

I'm not sure why psychology would need to be inborn, exactly. If men and women have large, inborn physical differences (which they do) then this is going to impact on behaviour, which will then form psychology. Surely men being physically stronger, women being reproductively sought after ect. are going to impact strongly on behaviour and psychology regardless. There is definitely some evidence of inborn differences available though, I remember one study from Trinity College which tested one day …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 09:17 AM
-2

it's easier to get casual sex if you can both please her and not slut-shame her funnily enough, that could act as a pretty good description of game
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 12:26 AM
1

I fail to see the benefit to her The benefit to her should be a more experienced, established, higher status man who actively wants to start a family and who's waning attractiveness should actually more closely mirror hers. A man 10 years her senior should by no means be 'going-to-seed' so long as he keeps himself in fairly good shape. You may as well ask 'but what if she loses attraction for a man her own age a little down the track because things get routine and boring', its probably about as …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/01/15 12:12 AM
1

If lots more women were sexworthy, or increased their sexworthyness, that'd be really bad for men because the rich would get richer and the mid-league would remain the exact same This is certainly a possibility, I'll grant that. Even if all currently obese women were suddenly made attractive, its no guarantee the mid-league would be any better off, more competition for the top could just mean richer pickings for the top and the same as before for everyone else. However, I still think this applie…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/01/15 09:23 PM
1

they'd only be more attractive, and lusting after alphas anyway They may be lusting after alphas, but if the number of fat women was reduced and the number of alphas stayed consistent, not all those newly attractive women would be able to have an alpha partner. Competition for top men would increase, there would likely be a general increase in standards and an increase in the attractiveness of women across the board. With less male competition for a small group of attractive women, the need for …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/15 12:52 PM
1

A better analogy is this: someone on a Reddit forum says they hate men, because men are primarily attracted to young, fit, fertile women and she is 40 and feels invisible and why don't men appreciate her for her personality and career? She's a good woman, why don't they like her? where have all the good men gone, they only like young women because they are vulnerable and dumb. Men are just dumb and creepy rapey pedos. Its men's fault this is wrong. No, its society's fault. Society tells them to …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/15 12:24 PM
1

I think a distinction has to be made between RP views and how men actually feel about and respond to them. For instance, female dual sexual strategy is an idea. You can present arguments for and against, discuss it in various ways ect. How a man actually feels about it, whether he responds with hate or a shrug of his shoulders, depends much more on his character, life experience, own happiness/status ect. than it does on the actual theory. Yes, life is unfair. I'd say I'm fairly red pill, and ye…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/15 11:58 AM
1

create a life where you will attract a person who you can trust, love, build a partnership with The problem here is you assume 'building a life' is going to attract a man. It won't. While men do care about more than just looks/youth, those are still the primary motivators in our attraction, and other aspects tend to be more personality based (chemistry, loyalty, decent person ect.) than anything to do with school, career, or 'building a life'. You're about as likely, maybe more so, to attract a …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/15 10:50 AM
1

I'd agree with that. I've met the odd woman who claims to masturbate 3 times a day, which over a few weeks would be enough for me to request a holiday
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 09:57 PM
2

You seem to be suggesting that a direct comparison is not possible, due to differing perspectives. I'm clearly arguing that the two positions are comparable, and that the female position is the more powerful of the two, regardless of her own feeling on the matter. Aside from that, I agree with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 07:51 PM
1

Well I'm looking up women in 1400 portraits and I barely even know what you mean now because a lot of them are perfectly pretty. The high foreheads thing looks more like a quirk of fashion than anything else, its probably how rich people did their hair. https://thepragmaticcostumer.wordpress.com/2012/03/26/the-red-beads-of-the-renaissance-and-later/ Look at this one, wouldn't say no
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 07:20 PM
1

Maybe it doesn't matter much if they are sure to declare her 'the greatest beauty of the age' once they're done. Until further evidence, I don't see why any of this is particularly trustworthy
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 07:08 PM
1

the wealthy in high income inequality societies often control government and make laws in their interests, to the detriment of fairness. this hurts all men but a small percentage of rich ones. if red pill cared about male issues, it would have a problem with this. it's telling that it doesn't Not sure what you're talking about, as I've personally seen this issue raised a fair amount in red pill oriented discussion, particularly to do with the issue of divorce laws and the destruction of marriage…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 07:03 PM
1

Comparing an abstract expressionist to a old master portrait painter? seriously? The latter made half their livelihood churning out portrait "photos" for the aristocracy An aesthetic could still be at play, we've no concrete evidence that the "photos" are 100% accurate, right? But I suppose we have to assume they are Why would that make sense? Differences in nutrition, health care, dental hygiene, body hygiene in general ect. I'd honestly be surprised if the average in 1400 was up to a modern st…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 06:52 PM
1

So what exactly would make this woman happy then? Her options are to be used by the 6 or date the 4 who doesn't seem all that excited to date her either Seems to me the answer is nothing. She's a female 4, she's not satisfied with commitment from a male 4, she's not satisfied with purely sexual attention from a male 6. She's not satisfied by a 'million sausages', because apparently purely sexual abundance doesn't satisfy her either. What does she want, exactly? Commitment from the male 6? That's…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 06:44 PM
1

This is Picasso's painting of a beautiful woman - http://www.sapergalleries.com/PicassoDoraMaar.jpg even assuming the grand master painted with 100% realism, it still doesn't necessarily imply different beauty standards. Maybe the 'great beauty' of the 1400s would be a 5/10 today, but what if the average of the 1400s was a 2/10 today?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 06:21 PM
3

Only if those 1 million sausages had no utility other than as food. But a vegan can still sell them, or use them in a number of ways. Greater sexual power can be leveraged into other areas. You're acting like a woman's sexual satisfaction (within a relationship, no less) is all that is involved in the disparity of sexual power. You're clearly ignoring the many advantages that a woman can get from being in the desired position, advantages unavailable for a male of equaivalent attractiveness. Eith…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 04:30 PM
2

now thin women are attractive since only rich people can afford healthy food and gym memberships That's utterly ridiculous. Are you seriously suggesting only rich people are thin...you do not need a gym membership to be in good shape, and not all healthy food is expensive. In fact, if anything, the opposite is true, it is rich nations like the U.S and U.K which have the highest obesity rates. I also don't agree that 'fat' women, as in obese, were ever found attractive. Slightly bigger women, in …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 03:50 PM
4

sure she has more options regarding sex I think a lot of the time, this is all men want women to admit. How she feels about her sexual options are not as important to the man as the reality of what they mean to him. In all honesty, 'yes I have the upper hand - but it doesn't satisfy me as a woman so please act like I don't' isn't particularly satisfactory
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 03:27 PM
3

So being a female 4 and having the option of casual sex/friends with benefits situation with a male 6, while also having the option of a relationship with a male 4-5 (and having the majority of sexual power within that relationship), isn't a better situation than being a male 4 with the option of dating a female 3-4? It is quite clearly a better, more powerful situation that you're trying to pass off as equal because at some stage a woman might make a choice that makes her feel bad
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 02:40 PM
5

The reason Phokus is responding with laughter is that women can generally sleep with guys a little out of their league, even if they can't lock them down. Men can't generally do this. Hence, as the social scene opens up, women realise they can do this and some will do so, leaving the men with less sexual options as they cannot compete in this way (they are simply not reproductively valuable enough to do so)
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 02:03 PM
1

are you seriously implying you can read into the mating preferences and choices of people in 1400 by studying their paintings?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 12:34 PM
2

Realistically, men aren't creating those stories based on what women really want in a man, they're creating those stories based on what men want to BE. If this is the case, then explain why men want to be that? Why do men have these power fantasies? It can't simply be for survival reasons, or women would have these fantasises equally. What other type of selection process could account for differences in male and female power fantasies? Well, how about sexual. If women have a preference for a pow…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/01/15 11:58 AM
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