~ archived since 2018 ~
~ archived since 2018 ~
| Upvotes | Comment on | Subreddit | Date (UTC) |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | What were the qualities of "alpha males" in the evolutionary past?I'm not disagreeing with your logic. You are right that it's hard to disincentivize the other man. Everything you said is correct. It's just that it leads to situations that could reasonably be perceived as unfair. Your idea and this one can both be true. Sometimes there are no easy answers, and multiple solutions both have drawbacks. In that case, it is worth some reflection to consider what the best solution might be. We live in a time when everyone wants it to be simple, where one solution ha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/09/22 02:18 PM |
| 1 | What were the qualities of "alpha males" in the evolutionary past?You'd probably be kicked out of the group and left to fend for yourself back in the day, eh? I guess I think for hunter gatherers, it worked kind of like a friend group works today. Most friend groups don't involve a lot of commands being issued, and if they are, you might not feel you have to obey, There's no "king" of the friend group, but there are people who have more seniority or charisma and are treated as informal leaders. It's relatively rare to be kicked out of a friend group (compared … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/09/22 09:30 PM |
| 1 | What were the qualities of "alpha males" in the evolutionary past?What's society have to do with any of that though? Just the thing about police, bosses, and teachers who regularly issue commands and expect to be obeyed. You say that you don't have to do what teachers tell you, but if they say "now we're going to take a test, so everyone please be quiet," you are supposed to do it. Imagine if half the class decided to talk during tests, to stay in their chairs when it was time to move to the next class, to keep writing on tests past the time limit, ... you get… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/09/22 01:34 PM |
| 1 | What were the qualities of "alpha males" in the evolutionary past?It's possible. Pinker is controversial; I have read some anti-Pinker things. But I can't prove he is wrong. So let's just say for the sake of argument that you are right. The deeper question is: how do people tell who they are attracted to? Do their instincts say "I want an aggressive, potentially violent person?" I'm sure there are a few people like that. Or do they say "I want a free person, one who says and does just what he wants to say and do - proving he's not afraid of violence?" I would … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/09/22 09:19 PM |
| 1 | What were the qualities of "alpha males" in the evolutionary past?Thanks, this is an interesting perspective. I agree that worrying too much about how society crippled my freedom isn't that productive. It _is_ useful when one is concerned about raising kids. In "Hunt, Gather, Parent," the author writes about how to raise kids without using commands all the time. That seems like something one can do for kids. I don't understand this. You can say and do what you want, and it doesn't make you a jerk. I didn't mean that saying what you want makes you a jerk, but t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/09/22 08:24 PM |
| 1 | What were the qualities of "alpha males" in the evolutionary past?Why on Earth would you listen to them? That's fair. I think my point was just that you sounded very shocked, as though no one could possibly come to this conclusion; I was suggesting that many people have. This doesn't compel you to agree with them (or me) for sure! I edited my post above to clarify where I got the idea from myself. There's a part about 2/3 or 3/4 of the way through the book where he goes heavily in depth about freedom vs. dominance; he mentions it in various places. So I took t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/09/22 07:08 PM |
| 1 | What were the qualities of "alpha males" in the evolutionary past?Say what?! How did you get that?! A lot of book reviews, maybe most of them, mention freedom. The Washington Post says: "The Dawn of Everything” begins as a sharp rejoinder to sloppy cultural analysis and ends as a paean to freedoms that most of us never realized were available." The NY Times review says: “The Dawn of Everything” sees pervasive evidence for large complex societies that thrived without the existence of the state, and defines freedom chiefly as “freedom to disobey.” I think you wi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/09/22 06:59 PM |
| 1 | What were the qualities of "alpha males" in the evolutionary past?I'm aware that a few tribes had slavery. As you say, it was not a universal quality - the Northwest Coast tribes are commonly cited as an example. But "no universal qualities" was not the only point of the book. In the Dawn of Everything, freedom is the heart of the narrative. They do say that there are almost no universal qualities, but freedom is the exception. Freedom is very close to being a universal quality. Graeber and Wengrow talk extensively about the three freedoms above, and then they… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/09/22 06:32 PM |
| 3 | What were the qualities of "alpha males" in the evolutionary past?I have read The Dawn of Everything. In it, the authors state that hunter gatherers had the "freedom to disobey orders." It's one in a list of three freedoms, the other two being freedom of movement and freedom to restructure society. He does mention certain authoritarian situations, like the Natchez Sun, although he states that the Sun only had authority over the people in his immediate presence. (And people mostly stayed away from him to avoid being killed by him.) Graeber and Wengrow also give… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/09/22 03:41 PM |
| 1 | Survey statements that distinguish between RP / BPI would add that this power women have doesn't benefit them as much as one might think. Casual sex is usually riskier for women. They may worry about getting pregnant, getting raped, or getting slut-shamed - things that men mostly don’t have to worry about. Men, on the other hand, might expect their friends to think highly of them for getting sex. So men might think women have this great deal, but women probably don’t see it that way - there are too many risks that come with the “free” sex. Ther… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/02/20 06:20 AM |
| 1 | Survey statements that distinguish between RP / BPI guess I see two sides of this. First of all - your point is that RP is a dysfunctional way to go through life; it's an ideology that has the potential to hurt the people who believe in it. I don't disagree with that. At the same time, it's very human and very interesting to be envious. Shakespeare wrote the play "Othello" about it. If someone hasn't had a girlfriend in however many years, and feels envious of another guy, that isn't a very healthy reaction - but it's a very human reaction. And… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/02/20 02:34 AM |
| 1 | Survey statements that distinguish between RP / BPI don't think RP folks think that all men get a bad deal, but that a few lucky men benefit tremendously and get everything they want, while the rest of the men get a bad deal. Life should be viewed as a tournament where only a few can win. If that's what you mean by "my sex gets the shitty end of the stick," I would agree that that's what RP believes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/20 06:32 PM |
| 1 | Survey statements that distinguish between RP / BPI totally agree that I am conflating RP and PUA. But I'm not sure I agree with you that it's so easy to distinguish them, where #3 is just RP while #2 is just PUA. Although I'm not especially an RP expert or practitioner, I've seen RP people give lots of advice about dating and sex. Isn't the RP idea of "frame" a kind of relationship advice? What about "dread"? What about "passing tests"? And these things don't come naturally to most men; they involve "breaking social rules" (#1) and they aren't… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/20 06:17 PM |
| 1 | Survey statements that distinguish between RP / BPOn reflection, I think the underlying RP / PUA idea is a "tournament" mindset: relationships are, for men, like a reality TV competition; only a few can succeed. Some RP / PUA ideas focus on how to succeed: successful men are likely to be those who (1) aren't afraid to break a few minor rules, (2) don't insist on "being themselves." Desperate times justify desperate measures. Other ideas, especially RP, focus on understanding the reason we have this tournament, instead of just pairing off into s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/20 05:46 PM |
| 1 | Survey statements that distinguish between RP / BPMaybe, but it might take a few pages of information to explain what "like that" means in "all women are like that." The statement has to be understandable to someone who doesn't know about RP. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/02/20 05:19 PM |
| 1 | Why does RP emphasize measurable goals (like sex)?Thanks! By the way I'm pretty INTP / slow serial thinking too. Maybe that's related to the instrumental / expressive thing as well. Although I highly doubt that everyone who's thought about RP or PUA is INTP. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/20 11:16 PM |
| 1 | Why does RP emphasize measurable goals (like sex)?An example of a nonmeasurable goal would be if you want to marry someone who won't divorce you 10 years later. You can try to take the right actions to ensure this outcome. However, the only way to "measure" or know for sure is to marry them and find out. (But maybe you were hoping to find out before you commit.) Would you count that as a goal? Teaching is a pretty expressive (rather than instrumental) profession. A nonmeasurable goal as a teacher would be if your students will grow up to be suc… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/20 09:30 PM |
| 3 | Why does RP emphasize measurable goals (like sex)?I agree that expressive thinking is related to holistic thinking like in "Blink!", and that there may be a biological aspect to these styles of thinking. I also think men's preference for measurable goals is related to their need to prove themselves - which is partly cultural. In some societies, there is a coming-of-age ceremony that shows someone is a man. It provides a measurable indicator that someone has status in the community. Women are more likely to have a "backup" option - if you don't … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/20 07:41 PM |
| 1 | Why does RP emphasize measurable goals (like sex)?That's interesting, and I agree. I tend to think it makes my question even more puzzling. If the basic needs being met are emotional (and I agree that they are), then RP is "choosing" to turn them into measurable goals (like sex.). No one is forcing it to do so. Yet it does. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/20 05:39 PM |
| 1 | Why does RP emphasize measurable goals (like sex)?The therapist could tell him about RP. It wouldn't take the therapist too long to learn about it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/20 05:24 PM |
| 1 | Why does RP emphasize measurable goals (like sex)?If a man goes to talk to a male therapist, why does the therapist nevertheless emphasize emotional needs? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/01/20 05:22 PM |
| 1 | CMV: A typical woman’s ideas are a poorer fit in RP / PUA communities than a typical man’s idea are in the equivalent feminist communities.This is a very interesting point, thanks for bringing it up. I wonder if the cynical, pragmatic view of relationships, in that context, would be a bit like capitalism is in the US. So, most people in the US agree that some amount of capitalism is normal, although many people hate it at the same time. But even if we all agree on it, capitalism still divides us into competing corporations rather than uniting us. So RP, even if everyone agrees on it as an ideology, still promotes the competition of… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/09/19 02:52 PM |
| 1 | CMV: A typical woman’s ideas are a poorer fit in RP / PUA communities than a typical man’s idea are in the equivalent feminist communities.There may be a "groupthink turning against them" dynamic, but there's also a dynamic of "am I hurting some group of people by saying this" dynamic. When liberals are at our best, it's the latter that we are concerned about. I.e. liberals want to include Mexicans in their "ingroup", and Trump has insulted Mexicans. So if I say I agree with Trump, am I saying that I hate Mexicans? I think that's what's going on for at least some liberals. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/09/19 01:51 PM |
| 1 | CMV: A typical woman’s ideas are a poorer fit in RP / PUA communities than a typical man’s idea are in the equivalent feminist communities.Do you feel that RP ideas in Central Europe have a "you're in or you're out" quality, like they do in the United States? My question is whether the 10% feminist women will deeply disagree with RP / trad ideas; you either agree with RP or you hate it. In contrast, do the 90% RP / trad folks claim to agree with the basic feminist ideas (e.g. "rape is bad")? In the US at least, everyone, including conservatives, claims to adhere to basic liberal ideas (rape is bad; racism is bad; people who are dif… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/09/19 01:38 PM |
| 1 | CMV: A typical woman’s ideas are a poorer fit in RP / PUA communities than a typical man’s idea are in the equivalent feminist communities.I think when I first read PUA stuff, it seemed to be making all-encompassing philosophical claims. Not just about "how to pick up women" but also about alpha males, a particular mythos about our evolutionary past, feminism, aggression, power, "niceness", gender roles, the relationship between sex and reproduction (or lack thereof), whether people are conscious of their real motives, etc. All of this stuff seems relevant to PPD, but "too big" to fit into just a narrow discussion about dating stra… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/09/19 09:05 PM |
| 1 | CMV: A typical woman’s ideas are a poorer fit in RP / PUA communities than a typical man’s idea are in the equivalent feminist communities.I could be wrong about liberals watching Fox News, but maybe we could agree that their hate-watching it means they don’t fit well. Why they would watch something they hate that much is beyond me. (I consider myself liberal, and I don't watch Fox.) How about this link: https://www.journalism.org/2014/10/21/political-polarization-media-habits/ Look at the table entitled “Trust Levels of News Sources by Ideological Group.” This shows that there are a lot of news sources that lean “a bit liberal” bu… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/09/19 08:52 PM |
| 3 | CMV: A typical woman’s ideas are a poorer fit in RP / PUA communities than a typical man’s idea are in the equivalent feminist communities.This is a good point, and I'm also aware that liberals are more likely to reject their conservative Facebook friends over politics than the reverse. I think this point is connected with mine. My assertion is that a conservative can choose to participate in a liberal conversation, but a liberal can't choose to participate in a conservative one. So, Jordan Peterson can "talk liberal" if he wants to, and can be PC if he wants to. His ideas engage with liberal ideas. In contrast, Peterson's liberal … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/09/19 04:01 PM |
| 3 | CMV: A typical woman’s ideas are a poorer fit in RP / PUA communities than a typical man’s idea are in the equivalent feminist communities.I definitely agree about openness. If I were to hazard an evolutionary explanation for this, it's that men were more bound to their tribe: if the tribe is attacked, the men are more likely to be killed. This might make men more rigidly attached to their tribe's conventional way of thinking and wary of outsiders. Also, in an exogamous society, women would go live with their husband's tribe, so maybe they would have to learn some new ways of doing things. I'm not sure I agree with the IQ explanati… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/09/19 03:52 PM |
| 2 | CMV: A typical woman’s ideas are a poorer fit in RP / PUA communities than a typical man’s idea are in the equivalent feminist communities.Do you feel that women are likely to do these things consciously by engaging in RP discussions (or any discussions for that matter)? I.e., how many women would post on an RP reddit forum and say "does anyone have advice on how I can design better shit tests"? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/09/19 03:33 PM |
| 1 | What does RP have to say about "intensity" as a personality trait?I agree that it may border on being a disorder. I disagree that it attracts personality disordered women. At least in my experience. The women described on RP forums are typically crazier than the women I have dated. I think women with personality disorders probably want a man they perceive as strong and stable and doesn't need to rely on them, rather than a man who is potentially even crazier than they are. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/01/19 03:50 PM |
| 1 | What is the longest you have been a member of the same young, mixed-gender friend group or organization?what end goal? That's a good point - I'm really thinking about LTRs; do BP techniques work better than RP techniques for getting an LTR in the context of a long-term friend group? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/12/18 03:35 AM |
| 3 | What is the longest you have been a member of the same young, mixed-gender friend group or organization?The real manwhores in our circle of friends did most of their manwhoring with women outside of the group. What about the more BP type men in your group? Was the reverse true for them? Were they typically more successful at dating women inside the group than they would have been at dating women outside of the group? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/12/18 05:48 PM |
| 1 | Are socially adept men really “dominant,” or are they just “playful,” “fun,” and "good communicators"?They do say to emotionally stress your partner - I guess I was thinking that this is something that's _unavoidable_ if you want to approach women and lack social skills, so RP embraces it as something _desirable_. It's a kind of trick or strategy for feeling good about yourself in spite of having a deficit. Making your partner uncomfortable is desirable in the sense that if you aren't willing to do it, you can't approach women, so you might as well embrace it and say it's a good thing. "Ha, I _m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/12/18 03:03 PM |
| 6 | Are socially adept men really “dominant,” or are they just “playful,” “fun,” and "good communicators"?I didn't mean it as a pissing contest - I probably identify more with the "lower social skills" side of things, myself. For instance, I noticed recently that when I observe a roomful of people and try to notice what's going on, others are better than I am at picking out and remembering what the people are doing. It's possible that for some men it's just reticence, while for others it is poor social skills. That said, I really doubt that most socially adept men are talking about "dominance." If t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/12/18 02:47 PM |
| 2 | CMV: TRP has an ironic ideology that defines "alpha" through external achievement, which ultimately makes it "beta"Azar Gat gives some pretty convincing arguments that raiding happened frequently at that time, including (but not limited to): "Fighting scenes with the whole range of armament [spears, clubs, knives, shields] are extensively depicted in Aboriginal rock art dating back at least 10,000 years." In particular, shields are specialized fighting tools that would not be used in hunting. He shows photographs of Aboriginal shields. He also shows cave art showing warfare with bows - large groups of archer… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/12/18 01:17 PM |
| 5 | CMV: TRP has an ironic ideology that defines "alpha" through external achievement, which ultimately makes it "beta"After reading Azar Gat's book about war, my sense is that "egalitarian" is a tricky word here. Humans evolved to share food in hunter gatherer bands, because when a hunter brings home a deer carcass, he can't eat it by himself; it will rot unless he shares it. They did not evolve to be egalitarian about sharing women. Stronger men, or older men with more experience and social connections, monopolized the women. Men who were good at raiding other bands could steal their women and have more wives … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/12/18 12:56 PM |
| 1 | How much of women’s preference for “social skills” is just the same as what's required by the labor market?It's not that service jobs are dominant or higher earning, but that there are so many of them that women can more reasonably expect that most people (80% of workers) will have to get this kind of job. In 1840, only 20% of workers had this kind of job. See this graph for instance: https://www.minnpost.com/macro-micro-minnesota/2012/02/history-lessons-understanding-decline-manufacturing/ | /r/PurplePillDebate | 16/12/18 02:56 PM |
| 1 | How would BP respond to these images of CDC divorce data?The gender ratio is equal in high school, but my guess is there are so many boys raised in a culture of porn, condoms, and casual sex in movies that the women still can't find a committed relationship. There are some "nice guys" out there, but the women kind of have to navigate that on their own, just like men do; my understanding is that no one tells them anymore "these guys will commit, those guys won't, stay away if you value your self respect." (And maybe the guys who are actually willing to… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 16/12/18 02:17 PM |
| 1 | How would BP respond to these images of CDC divorce data?Couldn't inability to find a committed relationship directly cause depression? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 16/12/18 02:12 PM |
| 8 | How would BP respond to these images of CDC divorce data?I have evidence that it is not just caused by mental health problems. According to the book "Marriage Markets" by Carbone and Cahn, "the percentage of men on [a college] campus very much affects campus social life, and the more women outnumber men, the more women report: negative appraisals of men on campus; negative views of their own relationships; ... lesser ability to gain commitment in a relationship" as well as a lower likelihood for women to remain a virgin. (p. 56) In this case, it seems… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/12/18 01:06 PM |
| 1 | Is there a correlation between political standpoint and the “pill” you sympathize with?It sounds like you know more about these kinds of academics than I do. My sense is that academics who are true experts and know about the physiology, hormones, and socio-political norms that you're describing, and who have real integrity, will be able to honestly say where rp gets it right and where it doesn't. But most experts are not like that, because everyone has expertise in a limited set of topics. The average person doesn't get to talk to the "true experts" but just gets the "trickle down… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/12/18 03:24 AM |
| 1 | Is there a correlation between political standpoint and the “pill” you sympathize with?What do you mean by elites concealing psychological gender differences? I mean that when people read PUA / RP stuff online, it makes claims about male and female psychology. In particular, women want dominant men. But this fact would be disputed by almost all liberal academics (and almost all academics are liberal.) Liberals claim that there are basically no innate psychological differences. I think of academics as being a kind of "elite." When I read the PUA literature, I had to either believe … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/12/18 02:16 PM |
| 1 | Is there a correlation between political standpoint and the “pill” you sympathize with?It's certainly true that I became more willing to consider conservative ideas - and some other weird ideas - after reading PUA stuff online. This is more the conservatism of Trump ("elites are corrupt and lying to you") than of Mitt Romney. In particular, elites are concealing psychological gender differences. Also, I think a major Democratic idea that is very mainstream is being anti-power and anti-dominance, or at least against power that is arbitrary, based on a "show of strength," or based o… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/12/18 01:25 PM |
| 2 | Discussion: Is our society blue pill because we track and supervise people’s responsibilities?I think my underlying question is: why do so many people oppose RP? My answer is: it's partly because RP involves a "show of strength," which is unacceptable in our society. In our society, powerful people (i.e. your boss or math teacher) don't need to show off their strength, because they have so much information that they can simply "fire the 200 worst employees" (as you put it) by reading a chart and signing a form. [Edit: I mean this in relative terms, not that bosses literally don't have to… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/12/18 12:49 PM |
| 1 | Discussion: Is our society blue pill because we track and supervise people’s responsibilities?but what really happens in a social structure that is designed so that objective numerical measurements are the basis of hierarchical movement is that a parallel shadow socially-based hierarchy will appear and start to exert influence I totally agree with this, but what makes you say that social competence is "more important than ever"? At least we do have the rules and metrics. I guess it depends on what past people you're comparing with. Social competence is more important today than it was fo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/12/18 06:34 AM |
| 1 | Discussion: Is our society blue pill because we track and supervise people’s responsibilities?I think what you don't like might be my use of the word "social dominance." To me, dominance that can be exercised by being impassive and uncaring, maybe filling out a form, like your downsizing example, is not very "social." But I'm happy to pick another word; please feel free to suggest one. I'm not attached to specific words, just meanings. I'm not sure I would use the word "cruel" to describe a music teacher criticizing a student. But I guess in a small way, yes, it is cruel - and the cruelt… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/12/18 06:29 AM |
| 1 | Discussion: Is our society blue pill because we track and supervise people’s responsibilities?Okay; but do they mean by "leadership" the same thing RP does? To find out what our society thinks “leadership” means, I Googled “leadership skills.” The top hit lists these skills: communication, motivation, positivity, creativity, and feedback. https://www.thebalancecareers.com/top-leadership-skills-2063782 Interestingly, “motivation” has a picture of a hand holding a trophy. These somehow feel BP to me. “Positivity” and “motivation as handing out trophies”? The second hit lists: https://www.s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/18 02:30 PM |
| 1 | Discussion: Is our society blue pill because we track and supervise people’s responsibilities?I guess I don't literally mean that it is obsolete - social dominance can be relevant and useful, as you are saying. But somehow our society does not acknowledge it. We try to avoid talking about it. "Dominance" is a basically considered to be a bad word, would you agree? Think about Mr. Banks in Mary Poppins, who learns that he has to be fun and informal with his children. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/18 02:00 PM |
| 2 | Considering taking the red pill, please change my mindI agree with this - it is possible to pick and choose from the red pill. I listed some ideas here: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9biv9l/cmv_blue_pill_and_red_pill_are_both_flawed_blue/ | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/12/18 01:35 PM |
| 1 | What would happen if men acted collectively?Men can't do it unilaterally, because a few alphas who defect from the union and break the rules will ruin it for everyone. In traditional societies, sexual control works because the women have an interest in it too. They have to produce 12 babies and are willing to trade their fidelity for their husband's loyalty and economic contribution. Women have to consent to any sort of social contract, at least some women have to. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 07:44 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.Sure, please have a word with me. In what way would it have encouraged you to bully those around you? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 07:25 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.What's an example of how they learn differently? Is it about "boys will be boys" and turning a blind eye to some amount of competitiveness and rowdiness? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 04:21 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.People can be pretty stupid about social things. When you're succeeding academically, you _want_ to believe that it's all that matters. People have believed stupid social things throughout history; I'm sure you can think of some examples. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 04:11 PM |
| 0 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.The 40% figure comes from a time when violence was more acceptable, so strong men with strong alliances could be polygamous and threaten / kill men who dared to touch their harem. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 03:53 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.Teaching has been "women's work" since the 1800s. You can't explain "nice guy entitlement," a recent development, using something that has existed for 150 years (teachers being female). | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 03:48 PM |
| 2 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.Exactly. And boring, nice men who get A's are never told "this will get you a job, but not a girlfriend." | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 03:37 PM |
| 0 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.If you go back far enough, men were fighting _duels_ with one another - Abraham Lincoln, of all people, accepted a challenge to duel. Men in 1950s movies are much more stereotypically masculine than men in modern movies, too - e.g. Humphrey Bogart, or James Bond in the old Bond movies. I'm not convinced that the majority of ordinary men were receiving "agreeableness is good" messages 50-60 years ago. I think that elite men often receive those messages, and have throughout history, because when y… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 02:30 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.Yes, I have been told that. That is my point - the school system doesn't just promote agreeableness / niceness / being a doormat in romantic relationships, but in all relationships. In OP my definition of "nice guy" was "women should be attracted to me even (or especially) if I avoid confrontation in social situations.” "Avoiding confrontation" = "doormat." Prior to reading PUA stuff, I would really never have thought it's bad to be a doormat. The word "doormat" wasn't in my vocabulary. I would … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 02:06 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.I'm guessing it's a male thing and not a people thing because both boys and girls receive the message that "niceness is good" from the school system, but for women, niceness is _actually_ good, even in the context of dating. Men are happy to date nice girls; they mostly just care if the girls are attractive. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 01:21 PM |
| 3 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.I might agree that the system is feminized in some sense, but I don't think it's because of feminism. I think the education system is designed to get math and reading knowledge into kids' heads, and it does it the best way teachers know how. Sitting at a desk and listening, or cooperating nicely in groups, are not stereotypically masculine activities, but there's no way around it. Do you have an alternative proposal? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 04:30 AM |
| 4 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.Boringness, like niceness, is also rewarded by the school system. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 04:20 AM |
| 2 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.I guess I have a different perspective on this; a woman once told me that she was rejecting me for being "too nice." So I have always taken these claims at their word, i.e. that the nice guy really is a nicer-than-average man who is being rejected (at least partly) for his niceness. I understand some nice guys are actually just manipulators, but they still are guys who _expect_ to be rewarded for niceness. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 04:10 AM |
| 1 | CMV: Young men’s “nice guy” mindset is caused by the school system, not feminism.I see why that would lead to entitlement, but why does the entitlement center around "niceness" in particular? (It doesn't have to; a lot of incels say they aren't getting laid because they are too ugly. But "niceness" is a common theme.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/18 03:44 AM |
| 1 | What would be required to reconcile RP and the establishment? Could it happen?What about PUA, then? (How would you answer my question if I replaced "RP" with "PUA"? Can PUA be reconciled with the establishment?) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/12/18 06:50 PM |
| 1 | What would be required to reconcile RP and the establishment? Could it happen?Thanks. I agree. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/12/18 06:06 PM |
| 2 | What would be required to reconcile RP and the establishment? Could it happen?I agree, it’s crazy. I assume that Jews are sort of a convenient target due to being a minority. The particular type of minority (religious, ethnic, whatever) is not that relevant. If 10% of the rich people had purple hair, a movement would arise claiming that purple-haired rich people have a conspiracy to take everyone’s jobs away. (I personally would support socialism, i.e. taking money away from _all_ the rich people, including Jewish ones. But that's a harder sell, at least for non-Jewish ri… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/12/18 05:53 PM |
| 1 | What would be required to reconcile RP and the establishment? Could it happen?I don't read TRP at all actually. I think after reading some PUA stuff some time ago, I came to feel that "something isn't right" with the system. I looked into it, and the more I read, the more I felt I didn't understand how and why our society was put together the way it is. I read a lot of sociology books, mostly. But you're right, I should shut down the damn computer and get outside. I do think that the internet has been a net negative for me, and it's only gotten worse with the current poli… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/12/18 05:38 PM |
| 1 | What would be required to reconcile RP and the establishment? Could it happen?Thinking about RP and related issues has definitely wasted a large amount of time that I could otherwise have spent working. That has been true ever since I picked up these ideas years ago; even when I am in a stable relationship. Distrusting the system forces people to take measures to guard their own security; these measures waste time and resources and cause stress. Much of the stress is caused by having different norms from the rest of society, which leads to alienation and inability to rely… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/12/18 05:08 PM |
| 2 | What would be required to reconcile RP and the establishment? Could it happen?I’m not sure I understand this comment; I tried to look up “hooked nose” on the internet. Are you referring to Jews? I’m Jewish btw, and my nose is probably bigger than most people’s. Is Israel responsible for men’s incomes stagnating? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/12/18 04:08 PM |
| 3 | What would be required to reconcile RP and the establishment? Could it happen?My favorite alternative is "BP++", i.e. RP without the idea that women prefer dominant men and without the idea that women are irrational, untrustworthy, etc. (The dominance idea is potentially toxic because it implies that women shouldn't succeed in the workplace.) https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9biv9l/cmv_blue_pill_and_red_pill_are_both_flawed_blue/ There's a lot of stuff that isn't toxic. Maintaining a friend network, dressing well, grooming, having conversation topics tha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/12/18 03:12 PM |
| 1 | Does inequality ever make it hard for you to connect with people?Okay, I thought it over some more and talked to some friends. I got pushback from multiple people (not just on this forum) when I suggested this idea - i.e. the idea that inequality reduces trust. Thanks for voicing your opinion about it. Instead, I'm wondering if it's the other way around: social organization "grows with" equality. For instance, I would imagine that early Christianity increased sexual equality for men by limiting hypergamy. It made adultery a thing to feel guilty about, where b… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/11/18 04:06 AM |
| 1 | Does inequality ever make it hard for you to connect with people?It's okay. I guess I do not know for sure why the pattern emerges in the data above. I am speculating that it has to do with people (a) having to pretend that they are of higher status, (b) having to figure out what other peoples' status is, (c) comparing themselves to what they see in media (which represents the experience of the upper / middle classes that they aspire to belong to.) This corresponds well with what RP folks are saying; they have to pretend to be of higher status; they have to r… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/11/18 01:33 PM |
| 1 | Does inequality ever make it hard for you to connect with people?Thanks, I appreciate your advice. Still, I think there is something to what I am saying. Trust has been declining in the U.S. for the last 50 years, and many people think it has to do with inequality: https://medium.com/@monarchjogs/the-decline-of-trust-in-the-united-states-fb8ab719b82a | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/11/18 12:41 PM |
| 1 | Does inequality ever make it hard for you to connect with people?I think that relatively few people have these thoughts about "every single interaction." I'm certainly not such a person. I think some people (like me) are a bit more introspective (and maybe a bit neurotic) than others, and notice themselves thinking. Authors like Virginia Woolf have kept diaries of their own thoughts. When I have a light thought, almost undetectable, I might pick it up and analyze it; another person might have the same thought, but not notice it. A third person might not have … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/11/18 04:03 AM |
| 1 | Does inequality ever make it hard for you to connect with people?Do you think TRP or PPD are helpful with this (sharing emotions / weakness)? E.g. on these forums, (1) everyone is anonymous, (2) everyone agrees that a certain amount of powerlessness is inevitable (you can't change hypergamy, no matter what), (3) we're not here to get sympathy, but to talk about theories and learn from each other. So I think on these forums, men can talk about their romantic troubles without coming off as weak. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/11/18 01:28 PM |
| 3 | Does inequality ever make it hard for you to connect with people?I think the anti-Trump resistance is the same way. I have a feminist friend who is into that, and she said "there's nothing else like it" in terms of the thrill of working with other people. Edit: I was also going to say, I think the more unequal we are, the stronger the movement has to be to make up for it. I.e. we now need a big social project and an enemy (feminism, Trump, liberals) in order to make it work. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/11/18 01:03 PM |
| 5 | How do women age 20 and under view relationships differently because of Trump and #MeToo?Thanks so much for your thoughts on this. I understand what you are saying about wanting to be part of something that is revolutionary. A friend I know who is a liberal feels the same way about the liberal women's movement. I personally have tried very hard to understand both sides, and I have a few friends who are with me on that - I can discuss politics with them in an interesting way without having to hate the other side. Like Jonathan Haidt's "Righteous Mind" is a book we have read together … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/11/18 04:36 PM |
| 1 | How do women age 20 and under view relationships differently because of Trump and #MeToo?I guess I was thinking of "opposing" as going beyond virtue signaling, like showing up to / organizing rallies and marches, organizing voters, and so forth. Actually getting involved in the political process. Why, after all, are women attracted to social skills as RP claims? It's because social skills are needed to organize political alliances, as men have done throughout history to support one side or another. Colleges have plenty of "young Democrats" kinds of clubs for this. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/11/18 04:03 PM |
| 2 | Can men and women ever become platonic friends?"A woman may very well form a friendship with a man, but for this to endure, it must be assisted by a little physical antipathy." (Friedrich Nietzsche) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/11/18 02:05 PM |
| 3 | Do women know (or care) when a man is being nice for a principled reason vs. a "weak" reason?Can you explain more about this? I haven't heard about the insufficient yin women who believe they are yang. I read a book called "Whipping Girl" by Julia Serano about transgender people, which claimed that our society hates femininity both in men and women. It didn't explain why this might be happening. Is it the religion / community thing? Is it about valuing women for their job rather than for their ability to be a mother? Although I have these yin qualities, I don't think I'm all that amazin… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/11/18 06:40 PM |
| 4 | Do women know (or care) when a man is being nice for a principled reason vs. a "weak" reason?Thanks, all of this makes a lot of sense. I appreciate these ideas, I haven't really heard this before. I agree, I have some feminine qualities in the "yin vs. yang" sense. The men I tended to make close friends with were often people who shared those qualities to some degree. Some of them also had trouble in relationships. It's very interesting, I can see how my wife fits me in that sense; she cares about harmony and peacemaking. We rarely fight. Whereas some of the other women I tried to date … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/11/18 06:15 PM |
| 1 | Do women know (or care) when a man is being nice for a principled reason vs. a "weak" reason?I remember taking a test in college that I was INTJ or maybe iNTP, but I think people sometimes have little self understanding when taking these tests, so it's possible that you are right. What are the implications of being a male ISFJ, as regards relationships? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/11/18 04:54 PM |
| 2 | Do women know (or care) when a man is being nice for a principled reason vs. a "weak" reason?I think I am nice, not because it makes me special, but because that's how I grew up. I had two brothers, but we basically didn't fight, and were nice to each other. My guess is that's unusual for brothers. Also, my parents fought a lot, and it mostly brought them a lot of misery; I served as their "peacemaker" sometimes. In school, I sought out nice friends, and I managed to find them. But I met one woman who told me I was "too nice"; I Googled that and found a lot internet crud written by PUAs… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/11/18 04:06 PM |
| 1 | Do women know (or care) when a man is being nice for a principled reason vs. a "weak" reason?I agree, women are attracted to powerful men. But it's a question of how men use that power. If a stranger is rude to a man on the street as he walks with his girlfriend, and he lets it go rather than pulling out a knife, will a woman think "what a wimp, he lets people insult him?" No, she understands that he has a good reason not to display "dominance" in that situation - and a moral reason, not just a legal one. There are probably cultures where he would be obligated to pull out that knife, th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/11/18 03:47 PM |
| 2 | Do women know (or care) when a man is being nice for a principled reason vs. a "weak" reason?Could there have been some connection between Christianity being accessible to the lower-ranked people, and its ideas about humility and kindness rather than seeking personal dominance? I guess "spread like wildfire" is an exaggeration, but I believe it spread as fast as Mormonism in the U.S. has done, which is pretty fast for a religion, 4% per year or so. It certainly didn't spread as fast as the latest internet meme. [Edit: okay, maybe not as fast as Mormonism? I read that somewhere, but I'm … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/11/18 02:42 PM |
| 1 | Q4ALL: With more and more men failing to have sex at all, do you think western societies are moving in a polygynous direction? Do you think polygynous societies are sustainable in the long run? Are they doomed to fall apart due to the unequal distribution of sex?But also unbiased, in a funny way. The author was willing to report a number that made his argument look bad, which suggests a certain amount of honesty. So that's something. I feel like the author was a very honest, careful person who was unwilling to lie about the numbers, but who also felt he had to oppose the incel beliefs as best he could. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/11/18 03:05 AM |
| 3 | Q4ALL: With more and more men failing to have sex at all, do you think western societies are moving in a polygynous direction? Do you think polygynous societies are sustainable in the long run? Are they doomed to fall apart due to the unequal distribution of sex?This "not for the reasons incels claim" is an article I found once and could never find again, thanks for finding it! I was just amused by the line that says "In reality, according to the GSS, the top 20% of the most sexually active never-married young men have about 50-60% of the sex." This is a little like saying "income inequality isn't real; the top 1% don't have 30% of the income, only 20%." | /r/PurplePillDebate | 16/11/18 01:00 PM |
| 1 | Common Arguments against the Impact of SexbotsI think all of these arguments are slightly true - but they aren't totally true. Sexbots will partially, but not completely, replace men's need for women. Just like porn. Just like prostitution. It's just one more step down the slippery slope. The general trend of modernity is that objects and institutions replace the need for people. Government welfare and social security replaces the need for community and marriage to some extent - but not completely. Dishwashers and washing machines replace t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/11/18 12:42 PM |
| 2 | CMV: Women Aren't the Only "Gatekeepers of Sex"It depends how you define gatekeeper. If a "gatekeeper" is just someone who has the right to turn sexual offers down, who can and occasionally does, then yes, men can be gatekeepers. If a "gatekeeper" is someone who "more frequently" turns offers down than the other gender - which I think is what RP means - then women are gatekeepers and men aren't. It's a matter of relative frequency, not an absolute essence. If men were gatekeepers in this sense, it would be men who would be complaining about … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/11/18 12:35 PM |
| 3 | Q for Red Pill: Why bother 'debating' here when your minds are made up?I think the problem is that it's easy to have a discussion that includes two opposing individuals, but hard to have one that includes two opposing echo chambers. If someone has learned a lot of talking points and theories, they will just repeat the talking points when they get in an argument. These days, there are a lot of echo chambers, both liberal and conservative ones. Ayn Rand fans vs. socialists, for instance. Also, echo chambers tend to share facts but moralize them differently. In RP / B… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/11/18 12:29 PM |
| 2 | How does someone get to be a "nice guy"?I feel like a woman would have to be the one to say what the outward difference is. (Since men have only experienced being themselves, and can't know the other men do.) I can say that I didn't "complain about not getting laid." I might have "felt miserable about being rejected," but the words "get laid" make it sound like the man just cares about the sex, which was not the case for me. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/11/18 03:31 AM |
| 7 | How does someone get to be a "nice guy"?This whole issue is a bit perplexing to me. I have been called "too nice" by a woman, but I _never_ told a woman "I am entitled to a relationship with you by being nice." I _always_ try to be nice to everyone, men and women. That's just how I am. So the whole thing about "nice guys are secretly selfish monsters" or something, never made sense to me. I have never been called a selfish monster by a woman for being nice. I suspect that other "nice guy" men are somehow behaving differently than I di… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/11/18 03:50 PM |
| 1 | What makes PPD work as a space were people from different communities can share conflicting ideas?Radical feminism certainly isn't any more radical than RP, relative to mainstream BP, is it? I guess I personally will tolerate almost anything, _except_ people who won't engage with ideas. I think I would find it frustrating if someone responded to my post with "cope" or "that's just misogyny" and nothing more. But apart from that, I would be happy to discuss with radfems or incels. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/11/18 01:26 PM |
| 5 | Off Topic Thread: Election 2018 (10 November 2018)Didn't Hitler come to power because Germany had fought World War 1, lost, was forced to accept enormous financial penalties, and people wanted a rematch? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/11/18 01:12 PM |
| 1 | Off Topic Thread: Election 2018 (10 November 2018)Whenever I look for a poll or survey on this, it always says that most people believe in it. Let me know if you can find something contrary to this: https://e360.yale.edu/digest/americans-who-accept-climate-change-outnumber-those-who-dont-5-to-1 Edit: and evolution: https://news.gallup.com/poll/210956/belief-creationist-view-humans-new-low.aspx | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/11/18 01:27 PM |
| 1 | Male version of hypergamy?If by "male version of hypergamy" you mean "what is the main male 'sin' in relationships, much like women's main 'sin' is branch-swinging" then the answer is sexual harassment and sexual assault. I think that the whole RP / BP complex of frustration comes from RP men wanting to get more sex, but women saying "we get approached too much already, leave us alone." I know sexual assault is nothing like branch swinging, but it is the main male "sin," so in that sense, it is the answer to your questio… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/11/18 01:25 PM |
| 1 | Off Topic Thread: Election 2018 (10 November 2018)I'm not sure ... I think there are a lot of people who are not super enthusiastic about either side, but I'm not sure what they want. I think a lot of Democrats' ideas are very popular; most people are okay with abortion, believe in climate change, and want taxes to be higher for the rich. But they don't like political correctness, and they perceive democrats as "elites" who claim to represent them while being very different than them (e.g. upper middle class, academics and media types.) Eventua… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/11/18 01:00 PM |
| 2 | Would feminists have better luck in changing mens' behavior by framing the discussion as a "here's how to improve your chances of getting laid" instruction manual?I assume women don't want men to approach them more often, and do not want to write a manual to encourage men to do that? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/11/18 03:38 AM |
| 2 | Off Topic Thread: Election 2018 (10 November 2018)I'm not sure if it's that the middle is gone, or that the middle doesn't have a voice. There is no one standing up and saying "I have an idea for a nonpartisan thing for the U.S. to do." If someone had a good idea for that, people would follow them. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/11/18 03:31 AM |
| 4 | Red Pill: How Basic Is This Knowledge?I think different people have different propensities to be rule-followers. If you are a rule-follower, your easiest option is to be nice to people all the time, because "be mean to people all the time" is a dumb rule that doesn't work. When these people find that "be nice all the time" fails, though, they start to look for other rules. Your idea about "flexible" thinking is correct, but some people are not naturally flexible thinkers. I am a bit like that. I try to treat one relationship like an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/11/18 01:20 PM |
| 3 | AMALTWhy do we not talk about AMALT? (1) More men have few opportunities to cheat, due to the 80/20 rule, (2) people blame women for infidelity because if you could convince some alphas to stop cheating, some other guys would rise up and take their place. It only takes a few cheating alphas to spoil it for everyone. If you want to end infidelity, you have to convince women, (3) everyone expects men to cheat, so they aren't surprised when men do it. Also, I think that in reality, NAWALT and NAMALT. AW… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/11/18 01:05 PM |
| 1 | Q4all Is it true that women are not "biologically hardwired for long term monogamy" ?I think it is not (only) biologically hardwired, but has to do with economics. If it were hardwired, how could there have been such a rapid shift in our own society recently? I found an interesting article: "A few prehistoric men had all the children" in New Scientist, 2003. Genetic evidence shows that in hunter gatherer societies, many more men were weeded out of the gene pool. It says: "The apparent disparity between male and female populations could be explained if polygamy was once the rule … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/11/18 01:22 PM |
| 3 | Q4Men: what does your minimum looks threshold for love and marriage look like?Most men weigh appearance too much unless they have known her for a while personally. After knowing someone for only 5 seconds, you _only_ judge her on her looks, and so of course you weigh that aspect too much. After knowing someone for a year or more, and she is consistently a good & interesting person, something in your mind goes "wow, I really _respect_ this person." That is how attraction was supposed to work in communities throughout history, in my opinion. I mean come on, you are going to… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/11/18 03:05 PM |
| 2 | Q4Women: Are women the “gatekeepers” of sex? If so, why?Is this circular? Women are gatekeepers because men are desperate. Men are desperate because women are gatekeepers. I guess if it were circular, it could still be a useful idea. I mean, maybe women start out 10% more gatekeeping, causing men to be 20% more desperate, causing women to become 30% more gatekeeping … there could be a "positive feedback" loop. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/11/18 03:40 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Women’s lower sex drive is the only evolutionary psychology idea that really matters in RP.To be fair, some of those could be true for a woman too. (She could be a stalker or emotionally unstable; she could be bad at sex.) I guess you are relying on the evo-psych fact that men are more violent and more persistent in a dangerous way, as well as the evo-psych fact that women are less likely to orgasm when their partner is inattentive? One objection that comes to mind is that it's a little hard for the average "nice guy" to believe that he is being turned down as "just friends" because h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/10/18 08:04 AM |
| 1 | CMV: Women’s lower sex drive is the only evolutionary psychology idea that really matters in RP.I'm totally fine with this explanation. My argument really relies on women being selective and not trying as hard to get casual sex. The low sex drive idea was my attempt to get to selectivity. What I don't like is when people say that women's psychology is to be more selective. Selectivity is not an emotion, it's not state of mind. "I'm feeling selective today" is not something I've ever said. Your explanation (basically, fear?) is a good psychological explanation as far as I'm concerned, and i… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/10/18 10:41 PM |
| 2 | CMV: Women’s lower sex drive is the only evolutionary psychology idea that really matters in RP.Ok, I'm not sure what point you're making with the sex drive thingd, as we seem to be agreeing that "stronger/weaker sex drive" is something that can only be compared when it's on. Which is fine, because I think in that situation it's not any stronger for males vs females. I guess I'm saying that I don't know if "more selective" or "lower sex drive" is the best way to say my idea. Maybe it's some combination of the two, and they work together in some way. You seem to like "more selective" as a b… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/10/18 07:33 PM |
| 5 | CMV: Women’s lower sex drive is the only evolutionary psychology idea that really matters in RP.Thank you for this thoughtful reply. I think you are making a lot of good points. Here are my responses. when it's "on" you wouldn't necessarily expect for it to be any weaker. I agree, it’s not simple. No one, including men, has more sex drive _always_. When your sex drive is off, it’s off. Straight men aren’t attracted to other men, even if they have a strong sex drive. The same is true with other desires. If a child is really hungry, that doesn’t mean they are hungry for spinach and brussel s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/10/18 05:19 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Women’s lower sex drive is the only evolutionary psychology idea that really matters in RP.EP would expect women to be more "manipulative" than men And yet, “manipulative” (Machiavellian) is one of the dark triad traits that RP says is attractive in men. In any event, even if it’s true that women are most likely to socially assassinate their challenger, that’s something that’s more related to conflicts with her own gender. It’s not the most relevant thing to RP, just as male dominance within their own gender is not as relevant. I'm not claiming that sex drive is the sole evolutionary … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/10/18 04:58 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Women’s lower sex drive is the only evolutionary psychology idea that really matters in RP.One more thing I wanted to tell you: part of what I am doing is in agreement, I think, with something you told me a while bacK: "caddish men are usually caddish because they are attractive and can get away with it." https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8c3957/nonmanipulation/ I'm sure there are many cads, but it goes beyond cads: men who act like normal humans and are assertive in a normal way, do that because they are attractive and can get away with it. Men who are unattractive h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/10/18 04:42 PM |
| 5 | CMV: Women’s lower sex drive is the only evolutionary psychology idea that really matters in RP.I don't disagree with you about what AWALT "really means." That's why I carefully used the words "talks as if " all women are disloyal and manipulative rather than saying RP "believes" all women are disloyal and manipulative. You can't deny that AWALT uses the word "all." It's a deliberately provocative choice of words. The word "all" is intrinsically not nuanced. It's a bit like if a feminist said "all men are idiots, cheaters, and scum" and then when you accuse her of being misandrist, she say… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/10/18 12:58 PM |
| 2 | CMV: Women’s lower sex drive is the only evolutionary psychology idea that really matters in RP.It's the only _evolutionary psychology_ idea that matters, was my claim. My point is that there is no special evolutionary psychology law that "women are irrational" or that "women are manipulative." There is no special law that "women are picky" or "women are hypergamous." Women don't have any of these tendencies in particular. I know this because I know a lot of women whose personalities basically seem to be more or less the same as men in terms of being rational, non-manipulative people. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/10/18 12:49 PM |
| 2 | CMV: Women’s lower sex drive is the only evolutionary psychology idea that really matters in RP.Working out is not uniquely RP. BP would agree that alll people should try to look more attractive. Hating women is just another way of talking about the negative beliefs about women that I mentioned in OP. Frame is just a way of talking about assertiveness / "acting like a normal person" that I mentioned in OP. Right-wing political positions come from trying to resist female power balance, which I mentioned in OP. (Tradcons try to resist female economic power / power in marriage, while RP tries… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/10/18 12:43 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Women’s lower sex drive is the only evolutionary psychology idea that really matters in RP.I explained how women having lower sex drives leads to: the 80/20 rule, negative opinions of women, assertiveness, and RP's willingness to employ drastic measures like dread. Those things seem to be, at minimum, the vast majority of RP. So the vast majority of RP comes from this one idea. Can you clarify what wasn't clear in my post? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/10/18 12:26 PM |
| 2 | Why does RP emphasize women's faults?I see what you mean. I wonder - Is it possible that the reason men are unable to recognize manipulative narcissistic women, among other flaws, is the 80/20 rule? I.e. for the 80% of men who can't reliably get a date, women suddenly rise in their esteem, sometimes unreasonably so. I remember one of my first girlfriends told me almost immediately, maybe a week into our relationship, that she had cheated on me. She apologized. I forgave her with little fuss, and we kept dating. To this day, I have … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/10/18 12:11 AM |
| 2 | Why does RP emphasize women's faults?Thanks. I agree that nuance is hard. You can see this by reading articles about gender psychology, or about anything - this academic thinks it's all about factor 1; that academic thinks it's all factor 2. So it's not just RP, but professors with PhDs, who don't understand nuance. You have to get your message heard, so you have to be bold. Apparently. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 11:55 PM |
| 1 | Why does RP emphasize women's faults?I guess people like simplistic ideologies that says "always" instead of "keep an eye out for …"? This is not unique to RP. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 11:52 PM |
| 1 | Hypergamy Or Assortive Mating? Why Not Both? [Speculative]For me, the only reliable definition of hypergamy is that it isn't a psychological trait or a judgment call about "worthiness," but a mathematical relationship: 20% of the men are getting 80% of the sex, while for women it is only 40% getting 60%. (Or whatever the actual numbers are.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 11:48 PM |
| 2 | Why does RP emphasize women's faults?This is a good idea, although if RP means "you should be able to spot flawed women and avoid them," then it should say that, instead of saying "all women are flawed, AWALT." Shouldn't it? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 11:40 PM |
| 3 | Why does RP emphasize women's faults?Okay, I think we are getting closer to the central point. I agree that I have / had a tendency to gloss over imperfections. I actually feel guilty for seeing faults in women, sometimes. I think this tendency has some up-sides to it; it avoids certain fights and distrust that would happen if you were super critical. At the same time, when my wife and I have an argument, I don't just tolerate everything she does / says. I do try to remain calm, and I try to be fair. (I try not to use sarcasm, whic… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 11:21 PM |
| 2 | Why does RP emphasize women's faults?It seems like all of these, then, are about how to respond when a woman acts shitty. According to RP, you can (1) be stoic and calm (the proper response to a shit test?), (2) avoid her, and/or (3) don't encourage or tolerate that behavior. Whereas before learning RP, the man would have (1) gotten emotional, (2) assumed it means the man is flawed, or (3) assumed he should be super tolerant of everything the woman does. I guess this raises the question: why is it that men don't already realize tha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 10:56 PM |
| 4 | Why does RP emphasize women's faults?I'm not sure in all of those cases that I see how it's related to women being faulty. Why does telling men to "own their shit" require saying that women are flawed? Isn't that something men should be doing regardless? Is the faulty part that the woman will leave you (and is therefore disloyal) if you don't own your shit? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 10:33 PM |
| 1 | Why does RP emphasize women's faults?Can you give examples of how to avoid faults like (irrational, manipulative, disloyal, narcissists, hamstering, doomed to hit the wall, and boring conversationalists)? I like your driving example, but in a defensive driving course, you only talk about scenarios you can actually avoid. You don't obsess about the statistics about how 30,000 people die in crashes every year. It might get a mention, but really there's nothing you can do about that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 10:09 PM |
| 2 | Why does RP emphasize women's faults?They need to be shocked out of it, for strategic reasons? (Otherwise they will be bad at dating?) Or more like, so that they can have self-respect or dignity in a broader sense? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 09:57 PM |
| 2 | Research into hypergamy doesn’t replicate. Original researcher declares his own theory is probably not true and that the studies based on his theory are now garbage.It seems to me like it is the two mating strategies that together enable the asymmetry. It is because men are willing to sleep around as much as possible that women are able to be selective. If men became less horny, hypergamy would end. If women became a lot more horny, hypergamy would end. Thus, hypergamy is a characteristic of men just as much as women. It's not a women's psychological feature, so it is pointless to test it using a psych study on women alone. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 09:44 PM |
| 2 | Research into hypergamy doesn’t replicate. Original researcher declares his own theory is probably not true and that the studies based on his theory are now garbage.This is a great answer, and it would fit very well as a response to my other recent post(https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9roapx/why_does_rp_emphasize_womens_faults/) If you have the inclination and time, you might consider responding to that too with your thoughts. I think then that I would prefer a term meaning "not totally innocent", maybe "shallow" or "superficial," rather than hypergamous. If we said women are "superficial" it would be more clear that we acknowledge men ar… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 09:35 PM |
| 2 | Research into hypergamy doesn’t replicate. Original researcher declares his own theory is probably not true and that the studies based on his theory are now garbage.I agree that women have some common criteria for partners that may include wealth and high status (and dominance, stoicism, humor are all things RP mentions) But men also have their own criteria; according to RP they want young, attractive women. Why is there a special word (hypergamy) about how women want certain men, but no special word (hyperandry?) about how men want certain women? (I'm imagining a woman posting to a reddit group: "I just realized the horrible truth about men … they don't ca… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 08:57 PM |
| 6 | Research into hypergamy doesn’t replicate. Original researcher declares his own theory is probably not true and that the studies based on his theory are now garbage.I've always been puzzled by the term "hypergamy." It's supposed to be a property of women's psychology (and not men's.) But both men and women would prefer to "marry up" or "date upward." How is this about women only? Guys, raise your hand if you _don't_ want to date a woman who is way more attractive than you? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/10/18 08:35 PM |
| 2 | Can a woman do something to increase her value in the eyes of men?I think that being a strong but also vulnerable person, having good character, being kind and honorable, having interesting ideas and interesting hobbies, being competent at her job - these increase a woman's value in the eyes of men she knows fairly well, as they get to know her over time, and who are more BP sorts of men. If she is looking to increase her value in the eyes of a random stranger she meets in a bar, then those things might not matter so much. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/10/18 02:28 PM |
| 1 | Science: What is dominance?Yeah, I'm a bit conflicted on the "cold approach is dominance" idea. On the one hand, it fits in certain ways: the trash talking; the idea that women like dominant men; the escalation to rejection; the "man as predator" metaphors. On the other hand, it doesn't "feel like" dominance, I don't think, i.e. it doesn't feel like "this woman has threatened me." At least not until one is rejected, and then it's already over. One idea I had is that it feels like a confrontation to the woman, since the ap… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/10/18 01:20 PM |
| 5 | (Q4RP) Would you want your SO to know about RP and to visit their gender appropriate sub?My wife once read "The Game" (or part of it) because she knew I was reading it, and she got angry at it and threw the book against the wall. But I like discussing it with her, since I spend a lot of time thinking about social issues related to dominance, conservatism, and other politically incorrect things. It's something that is important to me. It would be fun if she read PPD, so that we could discuss it together. Probably not TRP, that would just make her really upset. (I myself rarely ever r… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/10/18 11:25 AM |
| 1 | Alpha Male Philosophy: Is Wanting to Avoid Conflict Considered “Beta?”There is no single action that can be universally classified as "always attractive" or "always unattractive." If alpha means "an action or personality trait that is always attractive in all men and to all women and to any degree and in all situations," then there is no such thing. If alpha means "having courage and skill at dominance contests," then sure, it's more alpha to threaten to shoot someone and to risk being shot at. Most women I know wouldn't think that kind of alpha is very bright or … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/10/18 03:07 AM |
| 2 | Science: What is dominance?That's a good question. I'm not sure. I think that one can try to act dominant without any theory of mind (he hit me? I'm still okay? I'll hit him back.) Animals understand dominance, after all, even though they have no theory of mind. They stop attacking when they see certain signals of submission, but I'm not sure that means they understand what the other animal is feeling. But to be effective at dealing with complex interpersonal situations, a theory of mind seems important. If you want to be… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/10/18 02:23 AM |
| 1 | Science: What is dominance?I guess it depends what kind of game you are winning. If you win at blackjack in a casino by being a mathematical genius and counting cards, is that "dominance"? It's not really a confrontation, per se, but more of a math / memorization problem. But it's definitely "winning" something. Some people have tried to make their living doing this, I think. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/10/18 09:28 PM |
| 1 | Science: The closest thing in our society to an archetypal "alpha" is a gang member, Mafioso, or school bullyAfter re-reading that glossary, I'm considering whether I should change my mind. Specifically, if TRP were based on evolutionary psychology like I thought, then I would expect the dark triad to be something like "dangerous, aggressive, and honorable" or something. RP would be telling you to join "fight club." But the dark triad is actually "Machiavellian, narcissistic, and psychopathic." Those sound less like traits that women are actually attracted to, and more like just traits that would make … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/10/18 12:47 AM |
| 1 | Science: The closest thing in our society to an archetypal "alpha" is a gang member, Mafioso, or school bullyNo, it isn't. If that were the case then getting fucked up the ass is dominant if it allows you more influence over someone. This is the key question: can a man in a position of power ever be "not really alpha" because he got his position and/or exercises his authority in the "wrong" way? If a CEO got his position of power by being the gay lover of someone on the board of directors, then (according to you) he still wouldn't be very "alpha." Likewise, if the CEO was very empathic and a good liste… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/10/18 10:26 PM |
| 1 | Science: The closest thing in our society to an archetypal "alpha" is a gang member, Mafioso, or school bullyAppreciating others and listening are definitely dominant behaviors. Isn't a dominant behavior simply any behavior that results in one's gaining more influence over people? Also, I think "sociopath" is not what I intended. A sociopath is someone who has a psychiatric conditions where they have no conscience and don't care about others' well being at all. I'm sure that most gang members and mafiosos do care about one another. But they can take care of themselves in an environment where there is n… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/10/18 09:19 PM |
| 1 | Science: The closest thing in our society to an archetypal "alpha" is a gang member, Mafioso, or school bullyYeah, I think the plot of Romeo and Juliet is something that was pretty typical during a certain historical period. There was a tension between the family way of organizing (the Montagues and the Capulets) vs. the centralized state, represented by the prince. Blood feuds were a big thing throughout history; one major purpose of the state (and, say, the jury system) is to stop blood feuds like that from exploding. In our society, that kind of thing would be marginal and rare, but 10,000 years ago… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/10/18 08:07 PM |
| 1 | Science: The closest thing in our society to an archetypal "alpha" is a gang member, Mafioso, or school bullyI still don't understand how this goes against my point, though. Your point, as I understand it, was: "I thought an "alpha" man means someone that's just dominant." My response was that RP pushes particular kinds of dominance as being alpha, not just any kind. In particular, gaining status through appreciating others, listening, and empathy is not considered alpha. You said, why do I think it is not alpha? I said that ideas like "dark triad," "dread game," and "dealing with LMR" are a particular… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/10/18 07:53 PM |
| 1 | Science: The closest thing in our society to an archetypal "alpha" is a gang member, Mafioso, or school bullyI guess some of these values, like "fairness, justice, personable" are vague enough that they could mean anything. Feminists will say fairness means one thing, MRAs will say something else. I've certainly never heard TRP recommend being a good listener, appreciating women, or having empathy. I don't think TRP is against these things, when applied to one's employees in the business world. But I think to run one's sexual / romantic relationships on these kinds of values would be considered beta. H… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/10/18 06:59 PM |
| 1 | Science: The closest thing in our society to an archetypal "alpha" is a gang member, Mafioso, or school bullyI agree, TRP isn't telling people to go out and commit crimes. But I don't think TRP is just telling men to be dominant, by whatever means. It's telling men to become "alpha." There are plenty of dominant men (in the sense of quite well off financially and/or have several employees) who lead by fairness, justice, empathy, being a good listener, being personable, appreciating their employees, and so forth. Those strategies can work, especially if you know how to make them work. But they aren't "a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/10/18 05:59 PM |
| 1 | Science: The closest thing in our society to an archetypal "alpha" is a gang member, Mafioso, or school bullyIt could be that Mafia aren't like what I'm saying at all. They don't follow the government's rules, but you're saying they have their own rules. They are, after all, a business. They own property, unlike hunter gatherers. They are certainly more hierarchical, with capos and bosses. They're part of "civilization" just like I am. That said, what the Mafia and the hunter gatherers share is a lack of a formal justice system that mediates between different families. And it does seem like if a mafios… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/10/18 05:51 PM |
| 1 | Science: The closest thing in our society to an archetypal "alpha" is a gang member, Mafioso, or school bully> I'd go as far as to say the most basic social contract that underpins civilization is the sharing of > reproductive access by those at the top of the status hierarchy in exchange for the rest of the > men not lining them up the guillotine. This is an interesting idea. I noticed from Gat's book that hunter gatherers seemed to be quite polygamous - much moreso than our own society. The would marry in their 30s often, and presumably many men would die before reaching that age, so a bunch of men w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/10/18 12:25 PM |
| 2 | Science: The closest thing in our society to an archetypal "alpha" is a gang member, Mafioso, or school bullyI agree that they have to be able to socialize. I think of mafiosos and gang members as very highly valuing their "team." Hunter gatherers live in bands of family members, and they succeed or fail together. They perform religious rituals together. So I don't think of alphas as sociopaths. My guess is it depends on who has wronged them. If a member of their own tribe or band wrongs them, they should look out for themselves to a large extent. There is a saying "me against my brother, me and my bro… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/10/18 12:12 PM |
| 1 | Why are there no actual monks anymore?I spent some time reading about how communities in the U.S. declined; religion has declined; other groups have declined. I see that as kind of sad; I think people (not just incels, but a lot of people) are unhappy because of the loss of community. I too feel like I do not have that many friends and do not have a community. I have just started to go to a church, so I guess that is starting to be my community, but I wasn't raised religious so it's hard for me and slow to feel that connection. I gu… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/10/18 11:52 AM |
| 1 | Why are there no actual monks anymore?I'm sorry if I came across as hating incels. I certainly don't think of myself as hating incels. Or monks. Or religion. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/10/18 12:37 AM |
| 3 | How many guys do you think the average woman fucks in her lifetime?Whatever the number, it's the same as the number for men. Since both numbers are just: (the total number of pairings) divided by (the total number of people of that sex, male or female). Since the number of men and women are roughly the same, the average number is roughly the same for men and women. The true number is certainly somewhere between the average number reported by men (which is likely an overstatement) and by women (which is likely an understatement). According to this link, men repo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/10/18 01:40 PM |
| 2 | Empathy is Dead.Maybe there could be empathy "field reports," like: I listened to this person and learned about what he is going through, and it seemed to make him smile / like me / do something I wanted him to do. I read some blogs / articles from a political perspective that is different from my own, and I learned something / struck up a good conversation with a family member / colleague who thinks differently than I do. I thought about other peoples' motivations and I figured out how to influence them / how … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/10/18 02:28 AM |
| 1 | Is concern about toxic masculinity linked with concerns about warfare?ALL are perfectly explanatory of the existence of the concept by themselves. I agree that I can't prove it -- it's mostly my intuition against your intuition. To me, feminism isn't perfectly explanatory of blue pill / toxic masculinity / anti-aggression. Feminism could have just been about women having a role in the workplace. If it weren't for nukes, there's no reason that that had to be tied up with a rejection of aggression as being part of the male role. We could have had a society where wom… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/09/18 03:46 PM |
| 2 | Is concern about toxic masculinity linked with concerns about warfare?I will start with the particular point that it was not "primarily developed and pushed by men." I agree with you about that. But I think I can agree with you and still believe the OP. I don't dispute that toxic masculinity is more of a concern among women than among men. Women have just as much reason to be concerned about nuclear war as men do, and they also would be more concerned about the other effects of toxic masculinity (harassment, assault, spousal abuse) than men. So women have two reas… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/09/18 02:25 PM |
| 1 | What is the most important philosophical difference between red and blue?This is an interesting way of looking at it, and I agree that it's important. Can you say more about what the "finite and simple set of rules" would be, though? What are the most important rules? I think RP is not just about having rules; there are plenty of rules that would not be RP. I.e. a rule like "always appreciate women and give them positive feedback" would be a simple rule, but it wouldn't be very RP (or would it?). | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/09/18 11:41 AM |
| 1 | What is the most important philosophical difference between red and blue?What would you say is RP's basic idea(s) about the nature of women? (How are they different from men?) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/09/18 12:01 PM |
| 1 | Bisexual Beta Male Bonobos and Sexual SelectionI was imagining that most males probably don't have substantial mutations that are bad. So if 40% of males reproduce, and 20% have serious bad mutations, the other 40% don't reproduce, but it's through no fault of their genes. The females just pass them over because they seem like they _might_ have bad mutations. I guess I don't know whether the length of a male peacock's tail is genetically predetermined (in which case I assume all male peacocks have roughly the same length tail, because their … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/09/18 03:22 AM |
| 1 | Bisexual Beta Male Bonobos and Sexual SelectionThat's interesting that even among bonobos, it's mostly the dominant males that pass on their genes. I didn't know that. I'm not sure I agree that "it's by design." The hypothesis about sex I most believe is the Red Queen hypothesis, i.e. the reason sex developed in the first place was to allow genes to mix, thereby producing more different combinations of genes. This would ensure that at least some organisms would survive from a plague, rather than having a monoculture of identical organisms wh… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/09/18 12:00 PM |
| 1 | The people on TheRedpill and Gold diggers are similar.I don't even think redpillers are necessarily burned by toxic women. To take myself as an example: I was unsuccessful with women for years, but I didn't start going online looking for advice until I had a particularly difficult relationship. Was she "toxic"? Well, she had plenty of good qualities. She wasn't a bad person. But it was a painful relationship in many ways. The story I had been telling myself was that women didn't like me because they didn't really know me. Once I had a longer relati… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/09/18 11:07 AM |
| 1 | What events pushed you toward the blue pill (or no pill) as an adult?Ok, I get it now. You had a period where you were treating women badly cos you thought it would make you look good? Well ... I tried to avoid treating women badly, but I ended up becoming a sort of know-it-all about relationships and social issues, and I became a cynic. I think what happened is that I read the PUA stuff and believed a lot of it, but I also hated it. I didn't want to treat women badly. So instead, as a defense mechanism, I replaced the "sleeping around status" with "know-it-all s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/09/18 11:54 AM |
| 1 | What events pushed you toward the blue pill (or no pill) as an adult?For example? I think there are two basic ways in which RP is partly built on making others low. I might call them "internal" and "external." The external is when you overtly make a woman feel low. It's basically negging and active dread. Of course, negging can just mean playful teasing. I'm all for that. But other people use negging in all seriousness, to actually try to make a woman insecure. The same is true for active dread, like flirting with a waitress in front of your wife. This is an atta… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/09/18 04:23 AM |
| 1 | What events pushed you toward the blue pill (or no pill) as an adult?This just says more about you than any pill. I agree that it does say a lot about me. I have my own way of doing "obsession with status." That way includes things like trying to be knowledgeable; trying to give unsolicited advice to close friends and family; not wanting to tolerate flaky people. All of these behaviors increased when I learned about RP, for a variety of reasons. I definitely don't think that everyone reacts this way to RP. Maybe very few do; it was a weird reaction to have. Every… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/09/18 03:27 AM |
| 1 | What events pushed you toward the blue pill (or no pill) as an adult?What's this got to do with red or blue pill? I think the thing I'm trying to describe is about status. I associate the red pill with a kind of worship of status and dominance. When I suffered a setback in my work, and people still liked me, I realized that I had over-valued status. It was not as important as I had thought. Just a short while ago, I can remember having conversations with people where I thought "I have to prove that I am very knowledgeable about X topic, or this person won't want … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/09/18 02:36 AM |
| 16 | When looks aren't an issue, what are some other common factors that may prevent men from having a successful dating/sex life ?Getting one-itis (trying to date a woman who obviously isn't interested in him and ignoring other women). Only being able to talk about specific, nerdy topics. Not taking initiative (e.g. having a great conversation with a woman and failing to even try to get her phone number.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/09/18 11:37 AM |
| 1 | Toxic Masculinity is bad for men and leads to depression and higher suicide ratesThanks, I'm glad you like it! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/09/18 11:48 AM |
| 2 | Toxic Masculinity is bad for men and leads to depression and higher suicide ratesHe's tried all that (he says) Yes. And I think this is the key problem that could be fixed - making people realize that they haven't "tried all that." When I was first introduced to PUA ideas, I thought I had tried all that. But I wasn't aware of what "all that" was out there. The useful advice that doesn't involve putting down women, I mean. In truth, I hadn't tried any of that stuff. I got one-itis; I ignored IoIs; I didn't take initiative and expected relationships to come to me; I tried to d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/09/18 11:45 AM |
| 4 | Toxic Masculinity is bad for men and leads to depression and higher suicide ratesI agree that getting laid has to be part of the solution, if men are to give up RP (unless we go back to religion and people are to become actual monks.) As for "hot" women, I think it is complicated. I thought this recent post by /u/Whodunnit88 was interesting: r/https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9cmubz/q4all_would_you_rather_a_lifetime_of_casual_sex/ This person asked whether you would prefer a lifetime of casual sex with "attractive" partners, or a lifetime-long relationship … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/09/18 12:11 PM |
| 13 | Toxic Masculinity is bad for men and leads to depression and higher suicide ratesif TRP is supposed to be self-help for men, why does it support toxic masculinity? TRP is self-help for men in the same sense that Coca-Cola is self-help. TRP helps men who want more sex, and Coca-Cola helps men who want a refreshing beverage. Neither of these entities is especially worried about any bad side effects, such as depression or tooth decay. Just as Coca-Cola corporation creates ads about happy people drinking Coca-Cola on the beach, RP creates stories about happy men having sex. So f… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/09/18 03:07 AM |
| 1 | More Blue Pill Advice?I had a post where I listed some blue pill advice, which I called "blue pill ++": https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9biv9l/cmv_blue_pill_and_red_pill_are_both_flawed_blue/ Some examples of advice I would give: maintain networks of friends, have something to say that isn't video games or computer programming, take the initiative / be proactive rather than waiting for someone to come to you, look presentable, don't get one-itis, don't try to "court" women by waiting for months to … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/09/18 09:25 PM |
| 2 | Q4MEN: How long would you draw out a relationship if you didn't know you wanted to marry her?When I was dating, I decided I would limit it to 2 years. If we couldn't get engaged by then, it meant we were wasting each other's time. I told a girl about this limit, and as the 2 year mark came closer, she became somewhat distressed about it. I told her okay, forget about that limit. But we ended up breaking up before 2 years. And it was probably a good thing, because the relationship wasn't working out. I think 2 years is actually a decent limit (at least for me). I always knew well before … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/09/18 12:02 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.Okay. I believe you that _you_ see RP as just a warning about "being careful" and you believe that women are basically good people. That's great - maybe you are one of those people who uses RP in a responsible, non-misogynistic way. I think my list ("children, teenagers, sluts, doomed to hit the wall, hypocrites, untrustworthy, disloyal, hypergamous, hamstering, and irrational") shows that a very large fraction of RP thinks of women quite negatively. I would also ask, if women are "like that," w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/09/18 11:53 AM |
| 1 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.RP is a warning Why would anyone give a "warning" about women, unless women are "dangerous"? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/09/18 11:39 AM |
| 1 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.I see what you are saying. I agree that in terms of prescriptive advice, my pill might be closer to RP than BP. The reason that I like calling it a kind of blue pill rather than a kind of red pill has to do with the Matrix metaphor that the pill idea came from. In The Matrix movie, the red pill is supposed to represent a harsh truth concealed by society. With TRP, that truth is "the truth about women." What exactly that truth is, is up to some interpretation, but it isn't good. According to TRP … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/09/18 02:54 AM |
| 1 | Q4A: RP and wealth/social class?Thank you! I like it too. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/09/18 02:44 AM |
| 2 | Q4A: RP and wealth/social class?I thought of a better explanation (than my previous response). It's basically a kind of MC / UMC confidence or entitlement. Some men have less than perfect social skills and therefore have trouble with women. There are LC, MC, and UMC men with this problem. When LC men have this problem, they think "it's because I'm LC." They think they have to work harder and make more money. However, when UMC men have this problem, they think, "what's going on? I am a great marital prospect. I will make good m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/09/18 02:20 PM |
| 2 | Q4all: can you frame a RP concept to make it female friendly?What is the evidence that women compliance-test men after marriage? I assume you are talking about asking a man to do something, like go buy some groceries, and then she will be more attracted to him if he refuses to do it. This seems like a very difficult theory to test. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/09/18 01:22 PM |
| 8 | Is the polyamory movement the next big thing?I think that as long as people are having kids, relationships will be at least partly (but not entirely) designed around that need. The purpose of polygamy in the past was not to propagate the best genes, but just to raise children. Some men had a lot more money, and they wanted to use that money to have many children. Polyamory does nothing to help raise children; it only complicates matters by forcing people to spend a lot of time and energy figuring out who is allowed to have sex with whom on… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/09/18 01:10 PM |
| 9 | Q4all: can you frame a RP concept to make it female friendly?Here is my attempt at explaining "shit test": It's common for people to tease each other, joke around, and get a little upset when it's irrational to do so. Men do it, and women do it. People have to find ways of dealing with this "non-serious" behavior that doesn't involve taking the behavior hyper-seriously. That is, when your boyfriend gets mildly upset in a somewhat irrational way, it would be bad to immediately say "OMG I'm so sorry" if you know you're not in the wrong. Now, some men have a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/09/18 12:56 PM |
| 2 | Q4A: RP and wealth/social class?It might be that MC / UMC kids are, for whatever reason, more likely to get BP signals from their parents, friends, and schools. Some of the kids interpret these signals to indicate that they should put women on a pedestal. It doesn't work. They go seeking a solution, and they find RP. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/09/18 12:37 PM |
| 2 | Dating advice for men will always be considered misogynisticJust recently, I can think of: a woman who said something supportive when something bad happened to me, a woman who had some interesting intellectual ideas, a woman who had an interesting profession, and my partner who planned a date with me. None of this really has to do with how women are in the big picture of relationships - I have no idea how these women are in their relationships (except for my partner.) I'm talking about small things. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/08/18 12:01 PM |
| 2 | Dating advice for men will always be considered misogynisticIf you say "that's an interesting idea," "I like your glasses," or "thanks for being supportive," will you be branded as a misogynist? In any event, I don't mind being branded a misogynist. It's just a question of whether this particular woman feels appreciated. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/08/18 11:10 AM |
| 2 | Dating advice for men will always be considered misogynisticWhen I say "women's good qualities" I mean "anything you like that a particular woman does" not "qualities that are good in all women, universally." The examples I gave in the BP++ post were: saying "that's an interesting idea," "I like your glasses," or "thanks for being supportive." Have you ever liked or appreciated something that a woman has done? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 31/08/18 11:08 AM |
| 6 | Dating advice for men will always be considered misogynisticAny attempt at RP without “misogyny” is futile If your goal is to avoid all accusations of misogyny, then I agree, that is futile. Some people are crazy ideologues. There are some RP theorists who will dislike anything a feminist says, and there are some feminists who will dislike all dating advice for men. But, why should our goal be to avoid all accusations? Such is not the nature of the world we live in, nor has it ever been. If we were to cure cancer tomorrow, some people would criticize the… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 10:56 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.one of the big reasons why RP uses what you see as "misogyny" is precisely because we are trying to reprogram dopey BP betas so they will stop idealizing and pedestalizing women. This is a valid argument. Someone else brought this up too in this same thread. See my discussion with it_takes_the_redpill. However, I am not convinced that dopey BP betas must go from BP to RP and can only then understand BP++. That has not been proved. People have only been doing RP for a little while now, they have … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 10:38 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.This is a good thing to bring up, because it's something I've often wondered about. (Are feminists just saying "stop saying mean, true things"?) I, too, get frustrated with this. Apparently you're just not allowed to say certain things. I'm not sure which truths you are referring to, but I agree with some of RP's factual claims. What I came to feel is that it's possible for truth to be misused or to be relatively useless in guiding human behavior. To prove that RP is better than BP++, you have t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 10:08 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.So I agree, it is interesting to go really deep and try to understand why physical appearance, in particular, is important. I am not sure it is simple, however. I recall that in college, I was very proud of the fact that I didn't value female attractiveness as highly as other men did. "That picture of an actress is just a picture - it is totally uninteresting to me." At some point I had a friend who would point out pretty girls walking in the street, saying which ones he thought were hot. Then s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 05:28 PM |
| 2 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.(I tried to respond and then noticed later my post had disappeared. I'm not sure what happened. Edit: I think something just interrupted my internet connection, but let me know if you somehow got two messages.) The point is that a not insignificant amount of people will find your admission of hypergamy misogynistic I actually don't care if people will find it misogynistic. I've said many potentially misogynistic things in the past, and I probably will again. It makes sense why you would interpre… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 04:54 PM |
| 2 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.There is a certain perspective on RP, which I think you are channeling, where very tough language is used to describe certain actions, but the actions themselves are quite benign. For instance, making up your mind and deciding where to go for dinner are quite standard and normal parts of any relationship. I think you and I agree that: It doesn't have to mean always getting your own way at the expense of your partner. If you're doing it that way - great! Maybe you are in agreement with BP++. It's… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 04:37 PM |
| 3 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.I think the problem is that I used the word "misogynist" in a way that differs radically from your definition. I simply don't have a strong opinion about whether my theory is misogynist in your sense, and it isn't relevant to my post. Can we either (1) define misogyny using my definition: "raising your status / dominance relative to women by putting her down, making her feel insecure and vulnerable, instead of just raising your own value" or else (2) inventing a new word to mean that? (How about… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 03:47 PM |
| 3 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.Having a relationship with an incel is challenging. Getting fucked by an attractive man on Tinder is actually quite easy in comparison Sure, and cleaning up a flooded basement is challenging, but it doesn't make you feel good about yourself or make others respect you. Society / culture determines (sometimes quite arbitrarily) what challenges are valid. America used to value baseball a lot; now it values football. Teachers are not very highly valued compared to the actual value they add to the ec… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 03:25 PM |
| 3 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.Why do women want a man who has high social value? The same reason people want to win at sports or video games - they like to challenge themselves and want respect from themselves and others. I don't think it needs to have much to do with dominance or patriarchy. Why do men want a woman who has high social value? Are women climbing a dominance hierarchy when they put on makeup, lose weight, and style their hair? If so, does that mean society is matriarchal? You've inserted the word "dominance," … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 02:33 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.It seems to me that TBP, feminists, and SJWs would all agree with the Rx … wouldn't they? Whereas RP would disagree with it, because I left out a lot of things that are important to them. (Active dread game, first mate / captain, trying to pass shit tests, certain kinds of negging.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 02:28 PM |
| 4 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.Why should men work out and dress well? Because women want a man who has high social value - who will impress their friends, and make them feel good about themselves for scoring a high value man. Men are the same way, they want a woman who has high social value. I'm sure RP would agree with me on those points. To be clear, "misogynist" may not be the best term. Let me clarify it, and you can tell me what word you think I should use. By "misogynist" I mean the idea that for the man to show his hi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 02:25 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.I'm fine with what you are saying. When I say "a small number" I really mean a _small_ number in my own life. Like less than once a year. Like maybe I can count them on the fingers of one hand. Also, some of them I only realized were real IOIs after it was too late. There were also a small number of women who gave me IOIs probably just to manipulate. But if you're not sure whether the IOI is real, you can always try to initiate a relationship and if it doesn't happen, next her. Anyway, I agree t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 02:13 PM |
| 2 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.Everything you say to do is already encompassed as a subset of the redpill, and is thus more or less a prescription to follow the redpill. Redpill lite, if you will. What advantage do you see in picking and choosing your redpill and repackaging it to call it blue? (And why not purple if anything?) Good question. I call it blue because I think that most people who post on TRP would dislike it, while most people who post on TBP, and most feminists and SJWs for that matter, would be fine with it. Y… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 02:01 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Blue pill and red pill are both flawed. "Blue pill++" is the answer.To be clear, I don't believe you should _limit_ yourself to women who display a clear IOI. But in my own past, I can recall ignoring a small number of women who definitely displayed IOIs (and who I was attracted to.) They didn't pop up all the time. Why I ignored them, I don't know. I was too picky, perhaps. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/08/18 01:48 PM |
| 2 | CMV: Being a "nice guy" actually works in a traditional society with enforced monogamyOne origin of being nice / romantic was, I believe, in medieval adultery. High status ladies were the property of a lord, but they would have a lover who was a noble knight. Her lord would be awful to her (because she couldn't get divorced, so she was stuck with him.) But her knight would write poetry for her and so forth. Actually, I'm not sure how often this was really an adulterous relationship vs. just emotional infidelity, but you get the idea. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/08/18 06:15 PM |
| 2 | Clear solipsism for the matter of approaching on displayI appreciate the pun. I do think they were accepting rejections, yes. Raping a woman could result in her parents or brothers getting mad at you and killing you. (How do you think the brother would react to his sister getting raped?) I'm not saying that rape never happened. I've read that men kidnapped women from other bands, thereby separating women from their people, and then raped them. But I definitely think it was not something men did lightly. It would have carried the risk of violent death… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/08/18 02:48 PM |
| 2 | Clear solipsism for the matter of approaching on displayI sometimes think that approach anxiety is hard to explain or empathize with because it is an evolutionary psychology phenomenon. It's fundamentally irrational in a modern urban environment. Let's say you are a young man in a paleolithic band of 50 people. Everyone knows about everyone else's business. If you approach Alice and she rejects you, everyone will know. Now the next woman you approach, Carol - she knows you were rejected. She assumes it was for a good reason. She is now more likely to… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/08/18 09:34 PM |
| 4 | Q4BP: Where do you think young men struggling with relationships/women should turn to?The stock market analogy is an _extremely_ good analogy I think. In particular, both examples involve a complex, competitive system where people try to out-strategize one another, and where bad advice is very common. (In the stock market, index funds are better than hedge funds, yet huge numbers of smart, rich people invest in hedge funds anyway.) I also appreciate the point that giving someone advice involves knowing them as a human being. That really does not come up very often in these discus… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/08/18 03:39 AM |
| 1 | Nextable people and un-nextable peopleI sent it. I agree that childhood experiences have a huge impact on people. I don't think it even requires a mother who is incapable of love or who molests children in order to produce serious insecurities in the child. I also think that early failures in romantic relationships can be important in making people feel insecure and driving them toward TRP (the terrifying truth you mentioned would be that they don't understand how to relate to most women and they don't know how to fix it.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/08/18 04:00 PM |
| 1 | Nextable people and un-nextable peopleOkay, thanks! It might take me a little while to figure out how to formulate it. When you say "I can see the payoff for them," what is the payoff? Do you think that RP provides them any benefits of the form they claim to want (primarily more sex)? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/08/18 07:05 PM |
| 2 | Nextable people and un-nextable people> the thing you're wrestling with is way too nuanced to even be presented as red v. blue. > We don't actually have pill colors, is the thing. I'm actually curious - if you think red v. blue is too simplistic, what made you interested in reading this sub? (I mean it's great that you are here, we need people who question things. But, why are you interested in it? How did you start reading PPD?) I have some ideas for how to articulate my issues better (than the post above, which was clearly a train… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/08/18 03:28 PM |
| 1 | Nextable people and un-nextable peopleYes - I guess I meant "when RP uses the word alpha, it means that you are willing to next women until you get what you want." I agree that by the conventional way of thinking, that way of doing things isn't so great. Maybe that's a reason to reject RP. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/08/18 09:34 PM |
| 1 | Nextable people and un-nextable peopleI agree that anyone is nextable in that sense. I am somehow trying to say that there is a connection between the parent-child relationship (where people are not nextable) and learning where your boundaries should be. The family is also where you learn that nexting should be based on boundaries and not on a desire to push or influence someone (into having sex, for instance). Your parent would never say "do X or I will stop loving you." I hope. But I think there was little or no agreement in respo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/08/18 09:31 PM |
| 2 | Nextable people and un-nextable people> It isn't restraint. It's just humility. It's a lack of entitlement. Thanks, that's a good point. And I do value humility in my relationship, or I try to. I value negotiation and compromise too. Nor have I ever intentionally tried to dread my partner. These are just things I've read about. I'm glad that you wouldn't respond positively to threats of abandonment. I'm really grappling with these issues as I try to, basically, change my pill color to be bluer. Although I'm not totally sure what tha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/08/18 09:20 PM |
| 1 | Nextable people and un-nextable peopleI think your phrase "if their behavior starts to deviate from what you agreed upon" is key. You are thinking of nexting as something that one does if a relationship is "unfair" or a "bad fit" or "not working out." That's a very reasonable perspective, but it's not the RP perspective at least in my interpretation. RP thinks of nexting as something I do if I don't get what I want, or if I can leverage a threat of nexting to get more. So I would say that it doesn't play the same role in RP and BP. … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/08/18 06:24 PM |
| 1 | Nextable people and un-nextable peopleI realize that BP is fine with nexting, but I think the way it works is very different in BP and RP. I might say that RP "weaponizes" nexting. An RP man will next 1,000 women in one year until he gets to the few that tolerate RP. He will threaten to next his wife, a.k.a. dread. BP will do neither of these. A BP person has the _power_ to next his partner but he doesn't make use of it the way he could. Where does a BP person learn this restraint? Surely it's learned in the family or in friendships… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/08/18 06:18 PM |
| 1 | Nextable people and un-nextable peopleCan you say more about what you don't understand? By "next" I mean "the act of moving on from one relationship to another." To "next" someone means to move on to another woman or person. If a friend does something you dislike, and you get rid of them as a friend, you have "nexted" them. So a "nextable" person is someone who you can discard, throw away, or get rid of if it suits you. An "un-nextable" person is someone who you cannot discard, throw away, or get rid of. You cannot "next" your paren… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/08/18 03:27 PM |
| 5 | How does your pill/perspective explain “good on paper” men failing to find suitable relationships?I think there are probably many reasons, but one reason is either accidentally missing IoIs or _deliberately_ missing IoIs (I mean noticing that a woman likes you and being too obstinate to respond because you have one-itis with someone else, or because she doesn't match your ideal woman in some way even though you're attracted to her.) Another is being unable to have a conversation about human things. (Like being a scientist / programmer / video game player who can only talk about those things.… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/08/18 02:51 AM |
| 1 | What is the quality of evidence for RP in the long term?RP specifically thinks that women think and act differently than men, especially in sexual relationships as opposed to friendships. It has a huge amount of special terminology and theories to describe how women think differently. That's almost the whole point of RP. Doesn't that mean that RP thinks that the things that work on men are different from the things that work on women? Maybe your interpretation of RP is different from mine. [Edit: it also seems like the whole idea of the "friend zone"… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/08/18 02:21 AM |
| 5 | Why are so many women pro casual sex/hookup culture but anti-prostitution?> If both sexes knew they could be replaced simply by a partner > heading to the atm or swiping their card, people might actually put > more effort into dating. I see your point, but I feel that every time a human interaction has become replaceable or purchasable, people have needed each other less and actually put less effort into interactions. Women have jobs? They don't need men and divorce is more likely. Labor saving devices like dishwashers and microwaves? Couples need each other less. Men… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/08/18 01:20 PM |
| 10 | Is It Difficult to Not Be Creepy?I sometimes wonder what would happen if you just opened with something very direct, like "hi, I'd like to talk to you / ask you about the book you're reading / etc. Are you free right now or are you busy?" (Depending on the situation. I guess in this case I'm imagining myself sitting next to a woman on a bus or airplane where she can't escape.) Surely that opener is not creepy and would be feminist-approved. It respects the woman's agency. The important point is that it tells the woman "I'm not … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/08/18 01:00 PM |
| 2 | What is the quality of evidence for RP in the long term?I am starting to feel that RP doesn't give me some of the things I want, such as friendships. RP makes me try to be "aloof" when really I think most people I know respond better to being "appreciative." But RP sometimes claims that even if you _think_ BP is working for you, you're wrong. Women say they want this, but actually they want that. Your wife will leave you and you won't understand why. And so on. So I guess I was looking for some input on "how do we know it works?" | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/08/18 12:26 PM |
| 1 | What is the quality of evidence for RP in the long term?I wonder if for some men, being RP gives them a kind of confidence like you are saying - they have a strong feeling that they are doing the right thing, and if a particular woman doesn't like it, so be it. I am starting to feel that for me, being genuinely appreciative of women (a.k.a. "nice") is like that. I would like to be nice to women, and if they don't like it, they can can "fuck off" as you put it. However, I didn't always feel this way. I did enjoy learning to tease women, to express my … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/08/18 12:14 PM |
| 3 | [ADVICE] Teen that feels he’s falling into TRPI have two young children. I put a lot of effort into teaching them to share with each other. Whenever one hits the other, I make it clear that that's bad. Whenever one of them offers something to the other, or is generous, I make it clear that that's good. Is it possible for adults to suffer because they are too naive, rule-following, gentle, and generous? Of course; that's part of what TRP warns about. But the other extreme is much worse and more dangerous. The top 20% most rule-following peop… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/07/18 11:20 PM |
| 1 | How can people become more secure, and how is security related to RP?I think that in general, I need to do more to live life on "realistic" mode. Spend time and emotional energy talking to people who are reliably good to talk to. Set goals that I can accomplish 90% of the time. Don't automatically raise the bar to make things harder for myself. I feel like there is a connection, for me, between viewing relationships as challenging (in an anxious way) and viewing my work as challenging, and it doesn't work in either case. I have very, very high standards for both … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/07/18 01:27 AM |
| 1 | How can people become more secure, and how is security related to RP?It sounds like you are saying that insecure women are likely to choose "safe" partners who are ugly and won't leave them. I see where you are coming from with that. I will have to think about it. I think that according to attachment theory, secure people are the ones who choose "safe" partners. Not by choosing ugly partners, but by choosing partners who love them. Insecure people don't expect that others will love them, so they pick the murderers or jerks or whatever; he's not going to love me s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/07/18 12:24 AM |
| 1 | How can people become more secure, and how is security related to RP?I think it's great that you can tell when what you're feeling is incorrect. That seems like a key for a lot of things. I think it's also important to know when your goals are unrealistic. I.e. if you're dating a huge jerk and you think "I've got to transform him into a wonderful sweet guy who loves me," you're setting yourself up for anxiety. (I know this is a cliche, but there's some truth to it for some people.) I'm mentioning this cliche because it's a bit like my own situation. I invested to… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 16/07/18 11:55 PM |
| 1 | How can people become more secure, and how is security related to RP?What is the desired outcome of keeping it in check? Are you thinking "I will just not act on this, until the feelings of insecurity go away?" | /r/PurplePillDebate | 16/07/18 09:10 PM |
| 1 | How can people become more secure, and how is security related to RP?Can you say more about being honest about your motives or give an example? Why would being dishonest about motives lead to becoming insecure (anxious or avoidant)? Do you mean being honest with oneself or with others? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 16/07/18 08:22 PM |
| 2 | How can people become more secure, and how is security related to RP?> “I feel optimistic about the future, I have a need to tell this person something. > I’m going to do it in a direct, but positive way because I think they need to > know. It’ll be good for me to know what’s on their mind too. Everything will > work out for the best.” What you are describing as "normal" is the same as "secure." Not everyone is secure, and if you are secure you might not be aware of what is happening in other peoples' heads. Only about 50% of the population is secure, depending h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 16/07/18 07:32 PM |
| 3 | CMV: The "NiceGuy" trope, is nothing more than women takin out their frustration on shy/socially awkward men.This is a super interesting comment for me, because I can see that your and my experiences are quite different, and I am trying to figure out how I should think about that. I was always a nice guy who made friends with women and then eventually told them I was interested. When I did that, I was always rejected. This happened many times. However, I always tried to stay friends with them, and often I did stay friends. I never ended up on bad terms with them. One woman even asked me "did you feel l… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/07/18 11:28 PM |
| 1 | Hawaiian sexual practices> The PDF is nearly 500 pages. Section 2.1 that I mentioned is only 10 pages long. It starts at page 44. > A lot of anthropology (notable on Polynesian people) have been based on ideological preconceptions or > misunderstandings. So when I read things like this, I'm extremely dubious about the veracity. That's fair. I guess I tend to believe whatever is out there as "the best that is currently known," especially if it appears in multiple sources. The alternative is to throw up our hands and say … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/07/18 02:49 PM |
| 2 | Hawaiian sexual practicesInteresting! My understanding is that in Hawai'i, kapu was ended by king Kamehameha II in 1819 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ʻAi_Noa) and that Europeans tried to convert the Hawaiian people; but I really don't know anything about what aspects of Hawaiian religion survived (or of Polynesian religion for that matter.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/07/18 06:33 AM |
| 2 | Hawaiian sexual practicesDo you have any ideas how to reconcile my sources (which view males as more sacred in Hawaii) with your idea? Is it that in Hawaii, males were more sacred, but in other polynesian societies, females were more sacred? Here is another one about Hawaii: https://www.duo.uio.no/handle/10852/24032 "It was believed that women had a “haumia” (traditionally translated as “defiling”) effect on the male manifestations of the divine and were, as a consequence, barred from direct worship of male gods and wor… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/07/18 06:17 AM |
| 2 | Hawaiian sexual practicesI don't think we should adopt Hawaiian religion, if that's what you're asking. I'm not sure we could if we wanted to. The kapu system was really involved and was tied up with the hierarchical nature of their society. It even involved human sacrifice, which we are unlikely to adopt. What I had in mind in the post was just trying to understand the principles of human psychology. I like to feel like I have a handle on the reasons for different groups' sexual practices. If I don't understand them, t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/07/18 10:39 PM |
| 1 | Hawaiian sexual practicesI see what you are saying, but I think I have lost track of how this relates to what my initial post. You are saying that to conclude, from Catholic male religious hierarchy, that the hierarchy must extend to the secular realm, would be a false and unwarranted leap. These kinds of leaps are notoriously difficult to infer. But I wasn't trying leap to a conclusion invented by myself - I was reporting what I had read. If you google books "Asian/Pacific Islander American Women: A Historical Antholog… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/07/18 09:34 PM |
| 2 | Hawaiian sexual practicesThat's interesting about partible paternity, I did not know that. It seems like you have studied their society more than I have. I would say the wine and crackers are pretty important, though. Martin Luther preserved only two mandatory sacraments: communion and baptism. Without communion, a church service is just a priest talking at you. Some people might question why they should attend. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/07/18 09:05 PM |
| 1 | Hawaiian sexual practicesIt's weird that that the link is not working. I am able to see it in both Chrome and Safari. I agree with you that Hawaiian women held "a remarkable place in society," just as they do in ours (at least relative to our society 100-200 years ago.) And yet, we still have red pill proponents. It almost seems as if RP is a _consequence_ of feminism or a response to feminism. I think societies are full of tensions and contradictions, but that does not mean the social beliefs are meaningless or that th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/07/18 08:49 PM |
| 3 | Hawaiian sexual practicesRP and feminism are both in the business of trying to make changes. When you're making changes, it's good to have some idea of how that might turn out. RP believes that feminist changes are doomed to failure by certain facts about human psychology that are built into human behavior. Feminists often claim that there are no permanent facts of human behavior; everything can be changed. One way of knowing what human society can and can't become is to learn about a bunch of different human societies.… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/07/18 07:43 PM |
| 9 | What do men tend to exaggerate? What do women tend to exaggerate?Men: competence. And exaggeration of size is sometimes used as a metaphor for that. I once heard from a very accomplished female professor that when the men in her department argued, they were really arguing about the length of their penis. (She was pretty cool and did not censor her speech very much.) Another story she had is about some male and female students working on lab equipment. The female students said "I can't figure out how to use the equipment." The male students said "the equipment… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/07/18 02:34 PM |
| 5 | Imagine a pill that temporarily cut the sex drive and agression in men's brains to the level of the average woman.If _Chad_ took the pill, things would change dramatically. Hypergamy would end, because Chad's sex drive would be low and he wouldn't care to sleep around. Chad would pair off with one woman, and that would be that. The other women would lose their access to Chad and would be forced to date someone else. However, it is unclear why Chad should want to take the pill. As for everyone else, frankly I doubt anyone would take it unless they are black pill and just want to stop wanting sex. I suppose h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/07/18 02:26 PM |
| 1 | Are late bloomers stunted? What are your thoughts?I think that having your first relationship changes your perspective a lot. It makes you realize that what you are looking for is actual relationships, not childish crushes that you don't act on, not chasing after someone who is a 10 when you are a 7 and ignoring all the other 7's. Men start to realize that they have to take initiative, assert themselves, etc. They also start to lose the "women are wonderful" or women are objects of devotion, and see that women are people. However, if you are a … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/07/18 11:50 PM |
| 2 | Solving The Manchild ConundrumCan you clarify what "JP" means? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/07/18 07:09 PM |
| 3 | Solving The Manchild ConundrumIt seems like a problem that is related to building good habits. I recently enjoyed reading "The Power of Habit" by Charles Duhigg. His idea is that we have to find ways of obtaining our desired rewards by performing new habits. For instance, if you value socializing, find a way where when you do such and such task, you get to socialize. I would expand on this by saying that people desire three basic things: power (ability to control others), affiliation (friendship / LTRs), and achievement (acc… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/07/18 07:04 PM |
| 2 | Red Pill is what happens when male privilege lets entire generations not matureCan you say more about what you mean by "male privilege"? I'm not sure that I view male privilege as the origin of red pill views. My understanding is that male privilege means things like men tending to make more money for the same job as women, or something like that. I'm not disagreeing with you exactly, but male privilege seems irrelevant to what you are talking about. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/07/18 06:20 PM |
| 3 | Why don't wives just tell their husbands to lift and dress better?This question assumes that women would strongly prefer a sexual relationship with their husband who dresses well and lifts to a non-sexual relationship with their husband who doesn't dress well or lift. They could be fairly indifferent to these outcomes. As others have mentioned, the husband who lifts could attract other women. Also, if the woman has enough kids / doesn't want to get pregnant, she may not have much motivation to want more sex. (This is an ev. psych. thing.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/07/18 05:35 PM |
| 1 | Why is it that MRA (Men's rights activism) is so ineffective compared to feminism? An attempt to look at and explain this phenomenon.I think social movements often gain traction when they are a net positive for society, either economically or politically. Feminism is a great way to grow the economy: it _doubles_ the number of potential workers, since now men _and_ women can be workers. It _doubles_ the potential gross domestic product of your country. It potentially_doubles_ the resources available to fund your country's military, social security system, school system, etc. It potentially _doubles_ the number of widgets and g… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/07/18 01:19 AM |
| 1 | Camille Paglia summarizes the mindset of the Feminist women from min 9:00 to 11:30.I'm a huge fan of micro conflict: Immediately when you're upset about something, you mention it. It means you might have small fights pretty frequently, but in the bigger picture everything is running pretty smoothly. That makes sense. Of course, as a man, if I'm not the one who's getting upset about the chores, I can't make the micro conflict happen. Only the upset person can do that. I guess there may be some things I can do to create an environment in which she feels that her concerns will be… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/06/18 01:06 AM |
| 2 | why do approx 2/3rds of divorced men remarry?That's a great quote. I always really like to see quoted sources, thank you for that. I agree that many RP men would not get the things they say they want during the Victorian era. Although, above LewisCross clarified that for him it is about "authority, respect, and status" for men, not just sex. My personal opinion is that the obsession with sex is because that's all we have left if we give up on tribe, family, clan, status, marriage, etc. Formerly, there was much more to it than sex, in terms… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/06/18 12:51 AM |
| 2 | Camille Paglia summarizes the mindset of the Feminist women from min 9:00 to 11:30.This is a very interesting connection to make. I grew up in a family where my mom took a very forceful position toward my dad, and vice-versa. There was a lot of fighting, it was hard on my mom I think moreso than my dad but they kept at it anyway. I am not sure that there was a huge reward for her, in terms of chores getting done, from putting her issues out there ... it seemed like two countries fighting incessantly over a small piece of land that kept trading hands back and forth. No progress… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/06/18 12:30 AM |
| 1 | why do approx 2/3rds of divorced men remarry?I think the red pill does have some veracity to it. It's hard to find knowledge about people that has absolute truth. Red pill does pretty well, considering. For instance, I think that most of the common evolutionary psychology facts (especially those found via research) are true on average; although there will always be some outliers for whom it's not true. I associate evolutionary psychology with red pill. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/06/18 10:43 PM |
| 1 | why do approx 2/3rds of divorced men remarry?I agree with some of that. Similar to what you are saying, I think that Western society has lost any notion of unbreakable social bonds, whether from family, marriage, or even a corporation's loyalty to its employees. These bonds can produce unhappiness, it's true, but they can also provide security and alleviate suffering. I personally think it's the notion of marriage as a stable social bond, rather than the authority or sex, that is the most important. (Although the sex is a large part of wha… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/06/18 10:40 PM |
| 1 | why do approx 2/3rds of divorced men remarry?It's possible that blue pill and red pill are both useful fictions, as are most or all human belief systems. People may need to have some amount of certainty in order to motivate themselves to take any action at all; but true certainty is not available in the real world - neither that your marriage will work out, nor that your preferred political party is totally in the right, nor that AWALT. I think it's not that red pill is somehow totally accurate, but that it's accurate in a way which attack… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/06/18 10:16 PM |
| 3 | why do approx 2/3rds of divorced men remarry?Did people have active sex lives during their marriage prior to the 1920s? This is one thing I've never been quite sure about. My stereotype is that back then, the sentiments of "sex is for reproduction" were stronger than they are now. Religion was stronger. But if that were true, RP adherents would have been unhappy at that time, since RP advocates want unlimited amounts of sex. I could be wrong, maybe they had a lot of sex back then. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/06/18 09:46 PM |
| 2 | why do approx 2/3rds of divorced men remarry?Do you believe that marriage was formerly good for men? (And if so, do you have an opinion as to the approximate date / era when it turned bad, or what particular event(s) are most associated with it turning bad?) 1960s? 1990s? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/06/18 09:30 PM |
| 2 | why do approx 2/3rds of divorced men remarry?Does TRP hold that "marriage is terrible" is an absolutely "true" idea, or just that it is a "useful" idea for avoiding one-itis? It certainly could be the latter. I ask this because I've occasionally seen TRP argue that usefulness is more important than truth when evaluating TRP's ideas. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/06/18 08:51 PM |
| 1 | Should pro-choice mentality be extended to male parents too?It's hard, obviously if the man has good reason to believe the woman is on BC, and she isn't, then he has been betrayed. On the other hand, he could just wear a condom every time. I feel this situation has a certain similarity to the frat party drinking scenario, only with the roles reversed. I.e. the college girl goes to the frat party, drinks a lot, and has sex while drunk. She says that she was raped. Liberals blame the guy, conservatives blame her for getting drunk. Conservatives say: sure, … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/06/18 07:42 PM |
| 3 | Should pro-choice mentality be extended to male parents too?I guess I think that if you can make a small effort to prevent a major problem for yourself or someone else, especially someone you like enough to sleep with, you should do it. It's a little bit like this: I am driving a bulldozer down the street. In front of me is an old lady who is looking up at me intently. She sees me, but she makes no obvious motion to get out of the way. She apparently thinks I will budge first. So I plow her under. Then I say "well, she saw me there, she should have gotte… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/06/18 07:04 PM |
| 2 | What Kinds of Things do Men “Socially Police” Each other For?In most ancient societies, after the instability / anarchy / succession ends, some form of human sacrifice was practiced to show who is boss now. At least that is my interpretation. I.e. in ancient Hawai'i, the luakini temple rituals involved human sacrifice. In ancient Egypt during the first dynasty (3100 BC - 2900 BC), retainer sacrifice involved killing the pharaoh's servants upon his death "to serve him in the afterlife." This conveniently both shows how powerful the old pharaoh was and lets… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/06/18 05:28 PM |
| 6 | Should pro-choice mentality be extended to male parents too?I guess I don't know enough about the dynamics of this to have an opinion yet. Does this usually happen because the condom breaks; because the man trusts the woman that she is taking birth control pills and she isn't, ... ? I would be very unsympathetic toward a man who plans for this to happen, i.e. "let's not use birth control and she can always have an abortion later if need be." | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/06/18 05:15 PM |
| 7 | The Psychology of Modern LeftismI assume a large part of leftist psychology is the ethic of care, which (from an evolutionary psychology perspective) comes from families caring for one another. Humans formerly lived in family groups (bands and tribes) and most people they knew were related to them in one way or another. Therefore, it was biologically important for them to care for others, who shared their genes. Furthermore, it was especially important to care for those who are suffering or weaker (children, the elderly, the s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/06/18 01:29 AM |
| 2 | Q4All: What is the difference between Blue Pill and no pill?I agree that it's possible to believe that men and women are "different but still equal." That's how I tend to believe. I do believe a lot of evolutionary psychology, even though it sacrifices a certain amount of trust and a certain kind of absolute equality. Still, if it were me, I would not use children as the analogy in that case. For instance, if you want to communicate the idea that women have a natural "talent" with regard to relationships while men have to "work" for it, there are other w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/06/18 01:08 AM |
| 1 | Q4All: What is the difference between Blue Pill and no pill?I am not sure what is meant by misogyny either. I think I have assumed that the misogyny charge was related to the trust issue. It seems like one inescapable feature of seduction and RP is that the woman is a bit like a safe that is to be cracked or a website that is to be hacked; we do not treat her in the same way that we would a friend, but rather as something to be analyzed and "figured out." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_and_Thou I think that for many BP'ers, this by itself constitutes mi… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/06/18 03:16 AM |
| 1 | Q4All: What is the difference between Blue Pill and no pill?I actually haven't followed the TRP sub very much; what has changed since that time? (Do you mean that it has become more misogynistic or less misogynistic?) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/06/18 02:41 AM |
| 1 | Q4All: What is the difference between Blue Pill and no pill?So, I think these definitions are closely related to the ones I gave. My issues were equality, trust, and whether you can be yourself. (1) (Equality.) Equality is related to the claim that "TRP believes women are children" and to the discussion of the "mythical pay gap." As with most of these issues, it's complicated, because the TRP author asserts that he supports equality for women, but TBP would say he does not. Whatever you think about the gender pay gap, comparing women to children has anti… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/06/18 02:15 AM |
| 2 | Q4All: What is the difference between Blue Pill and no pill?Okay, I can talk about why I chose my definitions, but let me first make sure that I have the right "official" definitions. I didn't see a specific definition on the left side, but if you like you can post the definitions. Here is what I found: The “introduction” link on the red pill forum links here: http://archive.is/20150610190226/www.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/12v1hf/almost_a_hundred_subscribers_welcome_newcomers/ It talks about evolutionary psychology, Game or seduction, sexual strate… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/06/18 01:52 AM |
| 2 | Q4All: What is the difference between Blue Pill and no pill?When you say, "you should read that post," I am not sure which post you mean. Can you give me a link? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/06/18 01:26 AM |
| 12 | Q4All: What is the difference between Blue Pill and no pill?For me, "blue pill" refers to someone who buys into certain optimistic cultural beliefs about relationships, such as: relationships can/should be equal; women are basically trustworthy most of the time; you can succeed in relationships by being yourself. Red pill is an alternative set of beliefs, such as: relationships can/should be unequal; women are not trustworthy; you cannot succeed by being yourself and you have to read about how to act on the internet. For me, "purple" pill means that I be… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 18/06/18 12:20 AM |
| 3 | Is there any common TRP advice that would hurt a guys chance of getting laid?Yes, because the three goals can be incompatible. The most likely way they can be incompatible is if there is a hot woman who wants an LTR with you, and is willing to sleep with you in that relationship, but she does not want casual sex. Then pursuing goal #2 (get more casual sex) might lose you access to goal #3 (get sex with hotter women.) I also think that most men don't truly just want these three things, but that would be a different topic, since you specified that only these three goals ar… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/06/18 11:47 PM |
| 1 | Advice for your past self?I like these examples. I think maybe that when RP folks talk about "dominance" it is related to your idea of "self-identity and communication." It's just that if you take the idea of dominance in a certain way, you have decided that your wants/needs are "everything" and your self is "everything," to the exclusion of your partner's self. (That's what the word "dominance" normally means to the average person, I don't know if that's what RP folks mean by it.) I think that formulating a self-identit… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/06/18 01:29 PM |
| 1 | Advice for your past self?Yeah, the forgetting 90% thing is disheartening. I remember college courses that I really really enjoyed at the time, but I forgot almost everything I learned in them. But then there are other things I learned that I still remember. I'm not sure what made the difference. I think I'm okay at remembering interconnected facts. For instance, I can remember which recent president was elected in which year by remembering certain patterns (after Truman, each party holds the presidency for eight years a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/06/18 12:17 AM |
| 1 | Advice for your past self?Thanks, I appreciate your vote of confidence. I have never seen Gilligan's Island and I was unaware of the name, but I'm not unhappy to be associated with the show (from what I know of it.) I will try and come back sometime if I can. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/06/18 11:31 PM |
| 1 | Advice for your past self?I like both "say yes when you are afraid" and "travel." Those are both things I thought about when I was in college. I spent a little of my college experience outside the U.S., and I learned a lot about people while I was there. (I think mostly because I was in a novel social environment, along with other college students who were there.) My interest in understanding people and relationships really dates back to that travel experience. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/06/18 11:11 PM |
| 2 | Advice for your past self?It's definitely true that being content is all that really matters. People try to push each other to be in relationships just because that is what society tells us is important. I do think there are women who are religious but in a "relaxed" way, i.e. "I'm religious but it's okay if you're atheist." I think in our current political climate, it is easier to find someone who is relaxed about religion than someone who is relaxed about politics. That said, I am really a "relaxed liberal," i.e. I hav… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/06/18 10:15 PM |
| 1 | Advice for your past self?I've tried making it work with girls by overlooking lack of common > interests/attraction because I got along with them well and I won't > do that again as it's a waste of everyone's time. I think with the beliefs/interests it is a question of how far you want to take it ... my past self took it too far; I had extraordinarily exacting standards for what kinds of women were acceptable because my interests were just too narrow. I agree that if there are really no common interests / attraction then… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/06/18 08:00 PM |
| 3 | Advice for your past self?I guess I was hoping people would tell me their own advice for their past self. But if you (and/or the mods) think it would be better, I can post in on TRP instead. I have never posted on TRP and I wasn't sure if it would fit there (since it is not really in the RP framework). I thought it would be good for purple pill because it isn't really red or blue. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/06/18 06:47 PM |
| 1 | Non-manipulationI agree that my post was maybe somewhat vague, but I didn't intend for it to be a rationalization about pick-up artistry. It was meant to be the reverse. I.e. most men would be better off without pick-up artistry. You are saying that "if people need to lie ... that speaks volumes about them as a person." I agree with that. I guess my thought was that if men could benefit from relationship advice, the advice should be to become less manipulative, not more manipulative. And I agree, it is a little… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 13/04/18 11:06 PM |
| 1 | Are RP ideas about human psychology innate (biological) or political and economic (they could vary by country)?I guess even in a highly unequal society, there is an insistence on rules and cooperation. (Stability and order, as you put it.) Even a king can often get his power simply by inheritance rather than by being "alpha." RP alphas by definition would be more like a usurper who gains power by strength rather than by following the rules. So I wonder if "alpha" is a misnomer; an RP alpha is not someone at the top of the hierarchy, necessarily, but just someone who improves his situation by being advers… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/04/18 02:27 PM |
| 1 | Are RP ideas about human psychology innate (biological) or political and economic (they could vary by country)?So, you really made me think about this. Thanks for that. I thought about this further. I think in politics, dominance can be either functional (leading a group to victory, making wise decisions) or adversarial (like oppression, rivalry, or slavery). In my original post, I didn't quite make this distinction. Functional dominance, like in imperial China, involves for the most part leadership via merit, education, responsibility, wisdom. Education is super important in a modern country, but it's n… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/04/18 02:58 PM |
| 1 | Are RP ideas about human psychology innate (biological) or political and economic (they could vary by country)?I get your point about loyalty to the tribe (if males are more closely related, they might be more loyal to that group.) I don't follow what was the purpose of bringing up the issue of loyalty though? My question about the band/tribe/state issue was, what does the "alpha male" look like in a given context? Are RP folks claiming that the majority of us have a bunch of actual kings as ancestors, like a biblical king, and as a result women are always looking to sleep with kings? Or are we talking a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/04/18 11:46 PM |
| 1 | Are RP ideas about human psychology innate (biological) or political and economic (they could vary by country)?Yes, I agree 100%, it is about the size of the group. The king rules over a state of 100,000 people while the tribe is 1,000 people and the band is 100 (I mean roughly.) I guess what I haven't quite sorted out yet is whether I think women's genes are supposed to be telling them to think in a band-like way, a tribe-like way, or a state-like way, or even what each of those things would look like. (Or what RP's view would be on this.) The "most alpha" alpha male is the king, but maybe the alpha mal… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/04/18 11:21 PM |
| 2 | Are RP ideas about human psychology innate (biological) or political and economic (they could vary by country)?Okay, point taken. I guess I have always thought of RP as being really radical in terms of alpha males and dread and such, when it could be as you say that that is just meant to get people thinking in the right direction. In that case, my question could be turned around: why are there so many men whose rules of social behavior are so strict? ("Weak willed guys" as you put it.) Why are men so surprised to find out that some degree of social competitiveness is necessary? Let me give an example fro… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/04/18 11:09 PM |
| 2 | Are RP ideas about human psychology innate (biological) or political and economic (they could vary by country)?The aspect of RP I was thinking of is its general willingness to go outside the normal rules of social engagement, and to be somewhat more aggressive than is ordinary just among friends, using techniques such as negging or dread. This suggests that either the women are trapped and have no other options (false, they have plenty of other options) or they are looking for men who are very competitive and aggressive (why?). Anyway, I am less concerned with attractiveness, self sufficiency, and social… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/04/18 10:15 PM |
| 1 | Are RP ideas about human psychology innate (biological) or political and economic (they could vary by country)?My point was to separate tribal Israel/Judah (with only elected leaders) from kingdom Israel/Judah (with unelected, authoritarian leaders). The Jews were at this time discussing a possible transition from a tribal-based society (less authoritarian) to an authoritarian society with a king. This shows that their previous way of existing was less authoritarian. In fact, what I've read is that strong kings, like the one Samuel is warning them against, have only been around for 10,000 years or so. Th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/04/18 05:53 PM |
| 1 | Are RP ideas about human psychology innate (biological) or political and economic (they could vary by country)?Here is someone writing from those times, explaining how a king is a different and more powerful kind of dominance hierarchy. (Emphasis on last line.) Edit: the context is that the Jewish people are asking to have a king, like everyone else, and Samuel is warning them against it. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Samuel+8&version=NIV "Samuel told all the words of the Lord to the people who were asking him for a king. 11 He said, “This is what the king who will reign over you will cl… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/04/18 05:46 PM |
| 1 | Aggression and conflictYes, I agree that the authoritarian / libertarian distinction is close to what I mean by type 1 / type 2. (Although I might emphasize intergroup conflict in addition to the idea of authority.) I would add that there is also a lot of room in the definition of "left." Communism's "left" is primarily about redistributing money, while the SJW's "left" is not. Anyway, thanks for the discussion. I'll have to think further about it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 15/03/18 12:23 AM |
| 1 | Aggression and conflictit led to you finally having to say an absurd thing. "All those people with blue hair, radical new wave views, and a face like you've dragged a magnet through a scrapyard are really conservatives". I see what you mean that it is absurd. I'm having trouble expressing my point, because I am lacking the words to say it. So when I say liberal/conservative, etc. none of these words quite mean what I want to say. If you're willing, give me one more chance, and let me try to define my own new terms. My… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/18 09:33 PM |
| 2 | Aggression and conflictI believe you that I got some of those things wrong, but I wasn't deliberately trying to strawman your argument in order to attack it. I actually agree with many of those points I made in #1-4. (It is somewhat hypocritical to say that criticizing men is okay but criticizing women is not.) In my experience, for me to understand what someone is saying usually takes several responses on a forum like this, during which I get them wrong at least once. If I may try again, your main point is: “truth te… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/18 07:04 PM |
| 1 | Aggression and conflictTo summarize what you are saying, negative speech is not / should not be recognized as aggression by men because: 1) It's just words, not physical aggression (like punching you). 2) Women are hypocrites if they think it's okay to say "women have better social skills" but not okay to say that "men have better reasoning skills." 3) If this negative speech is "earned" or "true," then it is not aggression. (If "women can be mean," then it should be okay to say that.) 4) If it's not said to the perso… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 14/03/18 02:54 PM |
| 1 | Why American men are getting less marriageable - ArticleI don't think women think, "Oh my, he does chores" and instantly moisten, I guess I'm imagining that some women would want to steal the SAHDs to do chores for them, mostly not because they are turned on by the chores, but just because they don't want to have to do chores. If this theft became common enough, it would be possible to dread one's wife by in effect showing that one could run away with another woman and do chores for her. This would be a legitimate dread variant. I recognize this scen… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/18 01:50 AM |
| 3 | Why American men are getting less marriageable - ArticleI think there is a status and verifiability component to it. When I take care of my kids, no one but my wife and kids will ever know. Thus, there will be no awards, raises, promotions, job titles, or salary. If there were some way to verify whether a SAHD / SAHM was doing a good job (webcams to watch them take care of the kids 24/7?), it might be different. Women would try to steal the SAHDs to do their chores for them, which would raise their value. (Eventually, like there would be this slow cu… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 01/02/18 01:27 AM |
| 1 | Gender ratio and dyadic powerBeta strategy of offering commitment now has slightly more value. Another thing that could happen in Sarah Lawrence college is that women cease to trust all men ... between a good looking guy who wants a one night stand and an average looking guy who offers commitment, women might choose the good looking guy. (Because due to gender ratio at Sarah Lawrence college, they don't trust any guy to commit.) Do you have an opinion on this? I haven't read Date-onomics though. It sounds like an interestin… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/18 02:43 AM |
| 1 | Gender ratio and dyadic powerIs there any message in particular that you liked from it about how to establish a lasting marriage? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/01/18 01:42 AM |
| 2 | Gender ratio and dyadic powerSo, she basically had a second guy she was interested in and left me for him, as far as I can tell. It felt awful, of course. But it became apparent (from our conversations) that she was very insecure both in her relationship with me and with the other guy. Her inexperience and the novelty of having two men interested in her at the same time made her fumble the relationship. She also wasn't sure I liked her the way she hoped; she had considered trying to take our relationship to the next level b… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/18 07:49 PM |
| 3 | Why do so many extremely high value males marry post-wall women?High-status women like Amber Heard and Meghan Markle - who are both attractive and financially successful - have their pick of a wide range of men. If Amber Heard wasn't dating Elon Musk, there are many men she could date, most of whom are not as rich as Elon Musk but she could be okay with that. This makes Amber Heard more confident. Men like women who are confident. When you are prince Harry or Elon Musk, you are used to women fawning over you and totally overwhelmed by you. That gets tiresome… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 28/01/18 03:42 PM |
| 2 | Q4All: what is the most legitimate/concerning gender issue(s) to you?I think it's partly the decline of marriage. Marriage is something that both genders have a stake in - it's when two people agree that they want to be together not just to have sex, often for the purpose of having kids. Once it becomes only about sex, it's different. Men simply want more sex than women do, on average. There is always going to be a struggle between men and women over how much sex will take place. So the decline of marriage (caused by working class men having fewer jobs in my opin… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/18 02:45 PM |
| 2 | Q4All: what is the most legitimate/concerning gender issue(s) to you?I agree that feminism is not about equality. (Just like MRAs are not about equality.) But I think there are many individuals who do care about equality and would be swayed by arguments about how equal things are. Feminist men probably care a lot about equality, for example. And from the raw numbers, men are still doing better. For instance: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/pdf/coe_tba.pdf Of age 25-34 Americans with only a high school education, 76% of men have a job while only 59% of women do. … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/18 02:31 PM |
| 1 | Q4All: what is the most legitimate/concerning gender issue(s) to you?Entitlement culture and victim culture. I think Americans value proactivity (taking responsibility for oneself rather than blaming the system) which is great -- I mean, it's important to have a work ethic. At the same time, I'd like to think one can take responsibility for oneself and change the system at the same time. I agree about the machines. In addition to the machines, WC Americans have to out-compete labor in foreign countries that get one tenth their annual wage. (Whereas doctors and te… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/18 02:05 PM |
| 1 | Chores for sex?That's kind of what I'm getting at ... I'm skeptical whether the choreplay folks really gave it their best shot or if they did as you are describing (make a big show of doing one or two things.) My question is whether the guy would get sex if he actually did his fair share, without being reminded, for an extended period of time (months). | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/01/18 01:47 PM |
| 1 | Q4All: what is the most legitimate/concerning gender issue(s) to you?Do you have something in mind for the "something else" causing demoralization? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/18 10:26 PM |
| 1 | Chores for sex?By calling it "dread", it makes it sound like the intent of the game is to cause fear in others. Presumably to cause fear in your partner. Causing fear is most easily interpreted as an attack, not a defense. My guess is that this is where the misinterpretation comes from - just the name "dread." | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/18 10:20 PM |
| 2 | Q4All: what is the most legitimate/concerning gender issue(s) to you?I agree with this, and the best reason I know for this loss of faith is the loss of male WC jobs. (See my other response.) What do you think? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/18 10:14 PM |
| 1 | Chores for sex?Thanks, this makes sense. And certainly: if I thought my partner could leave me - well, she could. I'm fine with that. I probably wouldn't pick someone who's so unappealing that she is unable to leave me. However, if I thought my partner might leave me I would be upset. So the distinction, while subtle, is a big difference now that I think about it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/18 10:07 PM |
| 6 | Q4All: what is the most legitimate/concerning gender issue(s) to you?I think the biggest gender issue is the lack of good working class jobs for men. (Of course there is a lack of jobs for women too, but marriage is especially undermined by lack of jobs for men. Men might marry a woman without a job; women won't marry a man without one.) RP gives a reasonable assessment of gender issues in some ways, but it unfortunately does not provide any solutions to this underlying issue. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/18 09:47 PM |
| 1 | Chores for sex?Thanks! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/18 09:25 PM |
| 3 | Chores for sex?I do see how demonstrating popularity with other women might cause someone to reevaluate their opinion of you. I think partly I was making an assumption based on the word "dread." (Dread meaning fear ... fear of what?) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/18 05:56 PM |
| 1 | Chores for sex?Would you happen to have a link or can you recall which subs had an especially useful discussion of this? Is it on TRP? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/18 05:43 PM |
| 2 | Chores for sex?What is "Choreplay"? I guess what I'm proposing is basically "try doing more of the housework, without being asked, for 3 months, in a relationship with kids, and see whether sex increases." Is that what they tried? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 24/01/18 05:18 PM |
| 2 | Who has a vested interest in promoting the notion of the blank slate when it comes to gender differences?Anyone who wants to change society to be different from what it has been in the past has an interest in promoting the idea that humans are a "blank slate" and can be trained to act differently than they used to. Feminists, for instance, want to say that women don't have to be subordinate to men while RP claim that women want to be dominated. That to me is the central difference between feminism and RP theory. But it's part of a long historical tradition of social changes over the past several 10… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 22/01/18 02:58 AM |
| 1 | Who will have more sex: women with many men to choose from ("women's paradise") or those with few ("men's paradise")?there are more rapes in cities where women outnumber men. This is an interesting statistic that I was unaware of. It makes sense especially for date rape. (I'm not sure it would apply to stranger rape?) Basically, if men have power over women, they can sometimes use that to rape the women and get away with it. This is what we've seen with the string of harassment accusations - powerful men using their power to pressure women and get away with it. The only difference is that in one case, the powe… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/18 10:53 PM |
| 9 | Will "sexbots" change the dating scene?I agree with this and I think that is why many men will not visit prostitutes. (The fact that the woman didn't decide to hook up with him makes him value it less.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/18 10:25 PM |
| 2 | Who will have more sex: women with many men to choose from ("women's paradise") or those with few ("men's paradise")?It isn't surprising to me that women didn't have more sex overall in men's paradise - as there were fewer men for them to have sex with. Those single women who didn't want casual sex were stuck without a boyfriend. It seems to me that the only way to make a fair comparison is to compare the men's paradise women in relationships with the women's paradise women in relationships. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/18 07:45 PM |
| 1 | Who will have more sex: women with many men to choose from ("women's paradise") or those with few ("men's paradise")?Thanks for working to clear up any confusion. I am not meaning to misinterpret what you're saying and I believe you that I haven't got it yet. I think what you are saying is that sex is (or can be) good even though it tends to make people more jaded. Just like experienced workers are more jaded in the workforce, experienced daters are more jaded about sex. You are saying that it's not irrational or foolish to become jaded in this way; it is normal and healthy. I think our two views may be somewh… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/18 07:36 PM |
| 1 | Who will have more sex: women with many men to choose from ("women's paradise") or those with few ("men's paradise")?I had a lot of difficulty figuring out how to write this ... if I called them just Model 1 and Model 2, it would be confusing. If I called them RP model and BP model, it would be clear for those who agreed with me about which model is RP but for everyone else it would be even more confusing. Maybe the best solution would have been to call them 1 and 2 ... you can ignore the (BP?) hieroglyphic if that is helpful. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/18 06:48 PM |
| 2 | Who will have more sex: women with many men to choose from ("women's paradise") or those with few ("men's paradise")?Big state schools and liberal arts colleges attract more free-spirited First of all, all schools in the statistic were large public universities. Still, I agree that part of the explanation - for the 30% female schools - could be the tech schools. However, I'm not sure I believe that the 70% female schools attract more sexually uninhibited women than the the 50% female schools. If I were a sexually uninhibited woman I would go to the 50/50 school so I could get more men. Women develop a more neg… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/18 06:44 PM |
| 1 | Who will have more sex: women with many men to choose from ("women's paradise") or those with few ("men's paradise")?RP folks believe that certain "alpha" behaviors will make men attractive to women, and women have more or less sex depending on whether the men are more or less alpha. I've seen RP folks on this forum assert that if all men were to up their game, women would have more sex -- the reason women don't have as much sex is that the men don't meet their standards for sex. It would follow that if women had more men to choose from, they would have more alphas available to them and would have more sex. As… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 19/01/18 05:57 PM |
| 1 | Where should one go to get relationship advice?The advice was to tell her I was in love with her. I told her. She said no. I did not get mad at her or however feminists think nice guys react badly in those cases. Circumstances then took us to different places for about five years (we were hundreds of miles apart for those years.) She dated one other person in between. When I saw her again, she said she had changed her mind about me. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/01/18 08:53 PM |
| 1 | Where should one go to get relationship advice?There is no such thing as absolutely good or bad advice. I once received dating advice from a female friend. Said advice was terrible from a RP perspective. The advice did not result in my dating the girl I wanted to date. However I ended up marrying the same girl some years later, which would not have happened had I not followed the terrible advice from the other female friend. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 17/01/18 01:43 AM |
| 1 | CMV: RP strategy sexually selects for liabilities to the advancement of the speciesThanks! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/01/18 10:41 PM |
| 6 | How are men taught entitlement to women and sex?Love and reproduction are basic human needs. To build a society where people don't expect they will get love or sex is like trying to build a society where people don't expect they will get food. There are people who can go without sex, like monks (actual Christian or Buddhist monks, not MGTOW monks) but they have some supernatural beliefs that support that lifestyle. Western culture no longer has those beliefs. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/18 09:41 PM |
| 3 | Can we downvote comments that don't add to the conversation from either viewpoint?Oh, okay. I've seen posts at zero points so I assume someone is just breaking the rules using a hack. I approve of the no downvoting rule, actually. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/18 09:24 PM |
| 3 | CMV: RP strategy sexually selects for liabilities to the advancement of the speciesI agree, and I think the biggest difference between modernity and the "paleo" past is birth control, the internet, and city culture. RP/PUAs practice by approaching hundreds of women in big cities, getting rejected 100s of times at no social cost to themselves, using birth control to avoid angering the women's brothers and fathers and to avoid getting shotgunned into marriage with the women or feeling guilty for impregnating them. They then share stories about how to accomplish these things on t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/18 09:22 PM |
| 1 | Can we downvote comments that don't add to the conversation from either viewpoint?All I see is a greyed-out pill, which if I click it, it changes color representing an up vote. If I click it again, it changes back to greyed-out, representing no vote. Am I misunderstanding how this works? Do I need to post more or vote more or something in order to have the power to downvote? (Not that I really need this power.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/18 09:15 PM |
| 4 | Which dating problems happen across all classes?I think insecure attachment is a UMC dating problem; it may be a universal dating problem across all classes. Insecure attachment basically means having the expectation that stable relationships don't work, and acting on that expectation -- either by avoiding intimacy or by clinging. (Men are usually the ones to avoid intimacy, women are usually the ones who cling. But men who cling are really in trouble.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/18 09:11 PM |
| 1 | Never married people are better off. New studiesI think that one or two centuries ago, women were more dependent on their husbands. This pushed people to stay in marriages. Think about how hard it is to raise two or three children as a single mother. Now imagine raising eight children because most of them won't survive to adulthood; with no dishwashers or washing machines or microwaves or electric stoves; with no birth control to limit how many kids you have; when making a living on the farm requires upper body strength to push the plow. If t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/18 08:54 PM |
| 1 | Discussion and PP Theory: Why "Sex is power" destroys genuine sexuality, especially for women.Non-zerosum competition is things like sports and business. That makes sense. In sports, the game itself is zero sum (one team wins, the other loses), but everyone enjoys the game and is happy that they played. (Maybe the winners are a bit happier than the losers, but over time it may even out.) Not surprised. Kinda reminds me of Al Franken and his bullshit. It wasn't as bad as that. No one committed harassment as far as I know; it was consensual. I guess I just feel that people sometimes get ca… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/18 03:31 AM |
| 6 | Never married people are better off. New studiesI don't think a study is needed to prove that single men can be as happy as married men. I assume some single men are happy, others are sad. Some married men are happy, others are sad. No study is going to overturn that fact. I still find these studies interesting though. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/18 03:23 AM |
| 2 | Discussion and PP Theory: Why "Sex is power" destroys genuine sexuality, especially for women.I think that's a subconscious / ev. psych. thing. It's real, but it's not what drives most people on a conscious level. I mean, it could be - some people might consciously decide that they want to pursue whatever they see as being the best genes - but that is their choice. There is no "should" about it, is there? If RP men really wanted to maximize their genetic fitness, why don't I see posts about "how to donate to a sperm bank"? There could be theories about how to conceal your genetic disorde… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/01/18 03:18 AM |
| 1 | Discussion and PP Theory: Why "Sex is power" destroys genuine sexuality, especially for women.I agree. This is an interesting topic. It seems like people enjoy controlling others, but this can be expressed in a healthy way when the control is defined as being imaginary or bounded. For instance, in BDSM people agree that they will stop the game when someone wants to stop. In a sports game, board game, or card game, you try to control the outcome of the game but it doesn't spill over into real life. It's "just a game." If you treat real life like it's BDSM (as PUAs sometimes do), it can ca… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 10:39 PM |
| 1 | Discussion and PP Theory: Why "Sex is power" destroys genuine sexuality, especially for women.Actually it seems to me like there are two different interpretations of "sex is power." One interpretation is "sex is a tool for getting what you want," like flirting with your boss to get a promotion. In that case, it's not really about power. It's about the promotion. Another interpretation is "sex is a game that you play for the joy and status that comes from controlling others." PUAs obviously view sex in this way. A woman might view sex this way if she enjoys accumulating beta orbiters beca… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 10:25 PM |
| 1 | Discussion and PP Theory: Why "Sex is power" destroys genuine sexuality, especially for women.Actually it seems to me like there are two different interpretations of "sex is power." One interpretation is "sex is a tool for getting what you want," like flirting with your boss to get a promotion. In that case, it's not really about power. It's about the promotion. Another interpretation is "sex is a game that you play for the joy and status that comes from controlling others." PUAs obviously view sex in this way. A woman might view sex this way if she enjoys accumulating beta orbiters beca… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 10:25 PM |
| 5 | Never married people are better off. New studiesIt sounds like the central issue is "who gets their way when the two spouses can't come up with a compromise." In my experience this event is fairly rare. Sometimes there is an obvious rule that determines who wins ("you promised yesterday that you would do this.") Sometimes it is obvious that a decision impacts one person and not the other, so that person should get to decide. The scenario where it just comes down to "someone has to choose" doesn't happen that often, but I can see how it helps,… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 10:17 PM |
| 5 | Never married people are better off. New studiesSo, I'm pro marriage but I don't have a problem with someone posting this article. It does seem like this article is causing a lot of tension and people to be annoyed at each other. I'm not sure I understand why that is. It seems like PPD is able to discuss astoundingly contentious and non-PC questions like "should women be subordinate to men" without getting upset at all. Then when discussing this particular question it becomes a battlefield. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 09:41 PM |
| 10 | Never married people are better off. New studiesMy opinion is it's more about the kind of disagreement. I won't say it's bad to avoid disagreement. But Gottmann says that the #1 predictor of divorce is contempt (https://www.gottman.com/blog/the-four-horsemen-contempt/) If a woman disagrees with her husband and uses mockery or sarcasm, that's bad. For that matter, it's bad if the husband does that to the wife. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 08:56 PM |
| 1 | Discussion and PP Theory: Why "Sex is power" destroys genuine sexuality, especially for women.I guess it is enjoyable to be able to influence what other people do, and sex is a way of accomplishing that. All kinds of things are about the enjoyment of influencing other people. Games, for instance. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 08:41 PM |
| 2 | CMV Assuming alpha widows exist for women, it is unsolvableI won't deny that what you're talking about can happen. Maybe it usually happens. I am reading a book right now called "Marriage Markets" that views marriage as an economic interaction, but I am only a few pages in so I can't say much about it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 07:56 PM |
| 3 | CMV Assuming alpha widows exist for women, it is unsolvableI guess I am just saying that there can be an emotion that goes with this desire to extract resources. It is not always just a matter of cold calculation. You don't have to call it sexual attraction if you don't want to. You could call it love, pair bonding, oxytocin, or whatever you like. Most basic human interactions involve emotion as well as calculation, why should this be any different? (Even sexual attraction often goes along with cold calculation.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 07:40 PM |
| 1 | [Discussion] Opinions of a Tinder profile that emphasizes dinner out.I haven't used Tinder, but I assume you can change your profile. Do an experiment and try both options for a while, see what happens? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 07:15 PM |
| 2 | CMV Assuming alpha widows exist for women, it is unsolvableNone of my ex-girlfriends were desperate single moms on OKC, so I don't know very much about that. I met them through friend groups and/or school connections. It could be my rules only work for people of similar SES to oneself. That sounds kind of awful, doesn't it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 06:59 PM |
| 3 | CMV Assuming alpha widows exist for women, it is unsolvableWhat makes you so sure that alpha widows are caused by dating alphas? Women whose parents were inattentive might seek out partners who withhold intimacy. I think it starts with the parents, or just with her personality, not with the boyfriend. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 06:53 PM |
| 3 | CMV Assuming alpha widows exist for women, it is unsolvableI assume it worked better than the instability of women having babies by men who didn't want to help take care of the babies. (Prior to reliable birth control). | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 06:44 PM |
| 1 | CMV Assuming alpha widows exist for women, it is unsolvableI could know based on her words and actions. The following three things separate my ex-girlfriends who cheated on me from those who didn't: (1) She says "I love you" (2) She doesn't talk about casual sex (3) She doesn't talk about being attracted to other men | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 06:37 PM |
| 1 | CMV Assuming alpha widows exist for women, it is unsolvableI think there really is such a thing as "loving someone in a different way." It's just that men have a hard time appreciating that because men's evolutionary psychology is different. From an ev. psych. perspective, men mainly want sex. Women don't just want sex; they want a man who will stick around and take care of the kids. Thus, men think "if she isn't into me in a hypersexual way, she must not want me" -- because that is the way it is for him. Also, he is a bit terrified that she will cheat … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 06:09 PM |
| 6 | Do people view infidelity different when it is committed by a man vs a woman?I think that there is a double standard where men's cheating on women is considered more acceptable than women's cheating on men. That goes back forever, with kings taking mistresses for instance. At the same time, there is another double standard: women can be more open about their experience of being cheated on than men can be. That's because they are less ashamed than men are, and more "breathe fire" angry. ("Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.") In contrast, a man feels deeply ashamed an… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 05:50 PM |
| 3 | CMV Assuming alpha widows exist for women, it is unsolvableIt depends on whether you think a woman is an alpha widow forever or if it is "cured" when she decides to settle down and have kids. I think many women have different standards when they are dating different guys than when they want to get married. So in that sense it solves itself ... the men just have to wait a long time unfortunately. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 05:35 PM |
| 9 | Can being a player can make you a "misogynist"?It seems to me that women who cheat on their boyfriends will probably end up cheating with a player. That means Chad will see a lot of these women and will assume that AWALT. It's like if you are a dermatologist, you might assume that everyone has a skin condition. If you are a cop, you might assume that everyone is a criminal. If you are a therapist, you might assume that everyone is anxious and depressed. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 04:53 PM |
| 6 | What do you suggest a woman should do in the case of “alpha widowhood”What makes you so sure that "alpha widowhood" is caused by the woman having dated this particular alpha guy? What if the woman just has certain standards and always had these standards? It could go back to the way she interacted with her parents. I know a woman who turned down about three other guys prior to dating this alpha guy that she got stuck on. I think she just didn't feel the need to be in a relationship all the time. Some women want to be in a relationship all the time, or really want … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 04:36 PM |
| 1 | Q4RP If Red Pill ideas are universal truth why do they only appeal to people of a specific ideology?I like Jonathan Haidt too. I think it's all connected. Conservatives perceive an "us vs. them" dynamic which is the in-group idea. "They" are dangerous and threatening. We are in a zero-sum power struggle against them. Authority is necessary because we need someone to lead "us" against "them," and/or because "we" should have authority over "them." (Purity I think is more distantly related. Anyway Trump and PUAs don't strike me as being super religious.) In RP ideology, men are "us" and women are… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/01/18 02:03 AM |
| 2 | Q4RP If Red Pill ideas are universal truth why do they only appeal to people of a specific ideology?I think it's because America basically ended up with a "pro-change party" and an "anti-change party" in the 1960s and religion naturally aligned itself with the anti-change party, especially after abortion became a critical issue. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/01/18 07:12 AM |
| 4 | Q4RP If Red Pill ideas are universal truth why do they only appeal to people of a specific ideology?This is a good question. In the past I was quite liberal, but I found myself having right-wing thoughts after reading a lot of RP stuff about relationships. By now, while I am still liberal overall, I have some empathy for the right-wing perspective. I think there is a connection. One possible connection is that right-wing people tend to view certain other people as dangerous or threatening. (I don't mean this as an attack on the right, just a description.) Trump likes to attack immigrants and M… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/01/18 06:36 AM |
| 6 | This thread is EXACTLY why lots of men turn to Red-PillMaybe RP is actually the most effective teacher on how to get casual sex that one can find on the internet. However, it achieves this mostly by replacing one group of alphas with another group of alphas. Even if feminists care about men (which I think they do), why should they care about replacing one group of alphas with another? Wouldn't they feel bad for the outgoing alphas? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/01/18 06:25 AM |
| 1 | Egalitarian marriage, your definition.Say more about the power dynamic? What would be an example of an egalitarian vs. an inegalitarian way of navigating the same power dynamic? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/01/18 06:11 AM |
| 3 | Q4PP: What makes you purple?From RP, I think many ideas from evolutionary psychology are basically correct. Men and women have different ways of doing relationships. The most important difference is the amount of drive for casual sex. Also, I do believe that men can get more casual sex by doing the things RP tells them to do. However, I think that if you want a long-term relationship, especially a marriage, RP has less to offer; it may even be dangerous and counterproductive. Also, I believe that RP is a net negative from … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/01/18 05:50 AM |
| 1 | Egalitarian marriage, your definition.I think in an egalitarian marriage, the rules are the same for both people. The woman can't be shut inside the house unless the man is too. If the man gets to sleep around, so does the woman. I'm not sure I like the BP and RP examples; they make it sound like the less you control a woman, the more she will cheat. Some couples are able to combine zero cheating (by the man or the woman) with zero overt control of the kind in the RP example. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/01/18 05:38 AM |
| 1 | Sister is visiting and already has more friends then I have made in 7 yearsIs Grindr for finding platonic friends or gay boyfriends? My assumption was OP wants to meet platonic male friends. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/01/18 04:29 AM |
| 60 | If not than the Redpill or Pua, where else should nerds go to get advice on how to get casual sex?Why don't women care that some men can't get casual sex and mock them for trying? Women don't have a hard time getting casual sex if they want it. So they have exactly the amount of casual sex they want to have, and no more. Any plan to help men have more casual sex would necessarily involve pressuring women to have more casual sex than they want to have. Women don't want to be pressured into having casual sex. They already feel more pressured than they would like. This explains why women don't … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/01/18 05:43 PM |
| 3 | Sister is visiting and already has more friends then I have made in 7 yearsThere's also meetup.com. Personally, I think the absence of advice on how to meet friends is a huge oversight in the RP / PUA community. If people put as much effort and technique into making friends as they did into meeting women in bars, they would be much happier. (Not that I am especially good at making friends myself, but it's something I would prefer to be better at. Let me know if you start the "FA" Friendship Artist community) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/01/18 05:15 PM |
| 3 | Sister is visiting and already has more friends then I have made in 7 yearsBumble is unable to help men meet male friends, I think, because only the women approach? Is there a website for men to meet male friends? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/01/18 05:04 PM |
| 2 | Does anyone else find the term 'Spinning Plates' to be one of the more cringe-worthy terms used RP/BP forums/sub-reddits?That's interesting. I've often wondered what it means to "objectify women" (I mean, obviously RP men don't literally believe that women are plates). You are talking about walling oneself off from feeling compassion I think. That seems relevant. Another might be the attempt to explicitly model a woman's psychology in a causal or machine-like way. (I have to do and say this so that the woman will think that so that the woman will do that.) This isn't how one interacts with a friend. With a friend,… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/01/18 04:28 PM |
| 5 | Nice guys are irritating as fuckI think by "women hate ...", /r/RockinSocksII is talking about whether women get angry, not whether they date the nice guy. Women aren't angered by nice guys who don't turn nasty, even if they don't date them. I know this because I have been (and maybe still am) a nice guy, who asked many women to date me, was rejected, and then didn't lash out at them. I would say something like "oh well, I hope we can still be friends." And frequently we stayed friends. Not one of them was annoyed and a few of… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 02/01/18 03:30 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?Interesting. How do you measure "sexually successful?" Are the BP men you are talking about looking for LTRs? (And a few months doesn't count as long term IMO.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/12/17 10:09 PM |
| 1 | CMV: the "women are children" trp notion isn't so ridiculous given how often females cry and the fact that they cry at all well into adulthoodLet me try to paraphrase what this article says. (Correct me if I'm wrong. I am trying not to create a straw man or anything like that, but just to say what the article actually says. I may or may not succeed at that.) Men sometimes think that NAWALT and it causes them to get very invested in one woman. But, then the woman turns out to be like everyone else. She cheats on him, divorces him, or whatever. If he had maintained a mindset that AWALT, he would suffer less from this misfortune, because… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/12/17 10:02 PM |
| 2 | CMV: the "women are children" trp notion isn't so ridiculous given how often females cry and the fact that they cry at all well into adulthoodThat makes sense. I guess I should not use my wife as an example because I really have no way of knowing how typical she is. Perhaps my goal should just be to understand what you are saying, not to try to prove whether you are right or wrong based on my experience with women. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 12/12/17 12:09 AM |
| 1 | CMV: the "women are children" trp notion isn't so ridiculous given how often females cry and the fact that they cry at all well into adulthoodI guess I am saying that, when I talk to RP people who are deep in RP ideas, we often use words differently, and it usually requires a 5 or 10 long chain discussion on reddit for us to figure out if we actually agree or disagree. Sometimes we agree, sometimes we disagree. But I absolutely don't want to say that RP is all wrong. I think it is almost always at least partly right. I gave myself a "purple" tag on this sub because I try to be open to both BP and RP ideas. I may not always succeed at … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 11:37 PM |
| 2 | CMV: the "women are children" trp notion isn't so ridiculous given how often females cry and the fact that they cry at all well into adulthoodIt's true, you have read way more RP material and thought about it more carefully than I have; that probably accounts for my difficulty in understanding your idea. I totally understand if you don't want to discuss it any more. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 10:38 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?I'm fine with that. It's just very surprising to me that there is so little information available for BP people that want to do better at relationships. There should be a huge market for it, much bigger than the market for RP techniques, since as far as I can tell, most people are by default BP before they run across RP information. Personally, if I had found BP information that seemed to have the kind of depth of RP information (as opposed to just "be yourself, keep being nice") I would have ea… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 09:31 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?Thanks, these are some good ideas. I guess I called them PUAs because they feel that they lack some necessary social skills and want to work on them and educate themselves. They don't think "just being themselves," while making no other changes to their behavior, will cut it. In that way they are like PUAs. (And it's possible to be BP without seeking information about self-improvement in relationships.) Do you have a word for this? ("Information-seekers?" "Self-improvers?") | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 09:18 PM |
| 3 | CMV: the "women are children" trp notion isn't so ridiculous given how often females cry and the fact that they cry at all well into adulthoodI read them. Here are my thoughts. The first link gives the example that women sometimes leave their careers as a doctor and become a mother instead. Why is that a sign of immaturity? Maybe being a doctor was the right thing at one time in her life, and being a mother was the right thing at another time. She's earned some money, now she wants to have kids. Is it bad to change career paths? I'm sure that sometimes women get divorced for unfair reasons, like they meet some other hot guy. I'm sure … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 09:09 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?I'm happy to call them anything you want to call them. I just want to know what your school's curriculum will be. These male feminists want your advice on how to meet women and get into LTRs. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 07:55 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?Thanks, this was really a helpful thread of discussion that may be very influential in my thinking. I think the girlfriends (and my wife) who didn't cheat on me typically had high FTO and not just academically. One woman I dated had been poor in her childhood, and she said her goal was to have orange juice in her refrigerator every day. She achieved that goal. We fought a lot, but I can't imagine her cheating on anyone, ever. I also dated some religious women who I couldn't imagine cheating - I … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 07:18 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?I'm really not sure. I guess you could judge based on the number of relationships the woman has had, the extent to which she talks about casual sex, etc. but I'm not sure this is about FTO. I've known women who talk about casual sex (and even cheated on me) but then were able to get good grades while studying extraordinarily difficult academic subjects in college. Don't you need to have good FTO to do well in school? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 06:47 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?Interesting. Future Time Orientation? Is this like the marshmallow test? (Children are give one marshmallow, but they can eat two marshmallows instead if they wait 15 minutes to eat it. Children who pass the test end up with better "life outcomes" as adults) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experiment How would you go about judging FTO? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 06:36 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?What is involved in vetting? I assume you mean some way of knowing if the woman will cheat on you or something. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 06:29 PM |
| 3 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?The people in this imaginary school are interested in long-term relationships, not casual sex. They want to know how to meet women and get into LTRs. They are happy to learn RP stuff but not if the goal is casual sex. I'm not sure what is the right name for this type of man, but I'm pretty sure they exist - at least 2 or 3 of them. How would you help them? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 06:24 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?Maybe I used the wrong word for them, then. "LTR PUAs"? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 06:20 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?I guess I am asking you to assume that they want a long-term, emotionally intimate relationship, not casual sex. Are you saying that there are no men like that? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 06:16 PM |
| 1 | What skills should a Blue Pill Pick-up Artist have?They wouldn't be super interested in the part of TRP where you repeatedly approach strangers for casual sex. Is that something they need to do anyway, and if so why? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 06:13 PM |
| 1 | Brain elasticity is the source of all our problems.I like the attachment theory answer, that clinginess is built into us from childhood. When we find our that our parents are not emotionally responsive to us at age 2, we have to cling to them to get attention. Studies show that anxiously attached (clingy) children grow up to be clingy adults. The best way to become less clingy is to form relationships with secure, non-clingy people who value emotional intimacy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 06:12 PM |
| 11 | Why women fear a backlash over #MeTooFrom the article, I think point #3 is my biggest concern. Everyone thinks they know the answers to these questions (such as "is all flirting now banned?") but everyone has a different answer. It's not just men who differ from women, but women differ from other women. In the civil rights era, the answers to these kinds of questions were legislated. Now, the solutions may be different in every corporation. But people move from job to job frequently and basic sexual norms will change from workplace… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 05:55 PM |
| 5 | Why women fear a backlash over #MeTooFirst of all, I think it is possible for a low status man to approach a woman, even in an awkward way, if he is gracious about it when she says no, and leaves her alone after that. That would solve 95% of the creepiness problems in the workplace. I don't think RP advice will be able to make all men attractive, because attractiveness might be relative. If all men up their game, will that cause women to be okay with men approaching them? Or will it just mean that there is a new set of alphas and a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 05:33 PM |
| 1 | Possible solution to unwanted advances and sexual harassmentThat makes a lot of sense to me. If I were single, I would much rather have a "pill" devoted to how to make friends and build a social network rather than one devoted to picking up women in bars. Why is everything so narrowly focused on how to get casual sex? When I first found out about PUA, I tried to get some of my friends to practice meeting strangers - men and women - just to meet people. No one was interested though. That said, there is the meme that "you shouldn't date friends" which mayb… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 04:15 PM |
| 1 | Creep shamingRegarding the hypothesis that creeps are any guys who are not rich Chads. Obviously there is nothing to be done about some men being more attractive than others. But, one problem is that some men near the bottom of the income heap are jobless and are screwing up the social structure for everyone else. Poor women are creeped by the jobless men; Middle class women are creeped by poor men; etc. The government should provide a universal income for men and women. Families with a man and a woman shoul… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 03:35 PM |
| 14 | CMV: the "women are children" trp notion isn't so ridiculous given how often females cry and the fact that they cry at all well into adulthoodHow about: men won't clean up after themselves, therefore they are children? Men think they are the center of the universe, therefore they are children? Men like playing with toys (electronics, fast cars, etc.), therefore they are children? Men like playing games (computer games), therefore they are children? Men can't control their impulses, therefore they are children? I'm sure you'll disagree with one or two of these, but surely some of them will make sense to you ... ? You can say "not all m… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 03:27 PM |
| 5 | Creep shamingI agree that apologizing for something you don't feel you did wrong is beta. (I would argue that apologizing for something you did do wrong is not beta. That's what apologizing is for.) Anyway, once you have decided you are not going to approach this woman after all, it makes no difference whether you appear alpha or beta. If she creep shames you, you are not going to turn things around by saying "fuck off, bitch." Unless she is truly insane. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 03:13 PM |
| 8 | Possible solution to unwanted advances and sexual harassmentThe solution I have seen that I like best is that you can't hit on Becky in the workplace, at least not in a certain sense of "hit on." You can't make explicitly sexual remarks, etc. You can suggest that it would be good to hang out outside work. You must make clear that you are not proposing to get together to work on something, but to socialize. If Becky says "no, I'm busy that night" you may ask whether it's okay for you to ask her again sometime, or if she would prefer you don't do that. You… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 03:01 PM |
| 1 | Possible solution to unwanted advances and sexual harassmentAs mentioned in another sub-post, I met almost everyone I know through school in one way or another. When you say school relationships should be discouraged, especially with a power imbalance ... I would say that a student / teacher relationship is absolutely wrong, even more wrong that a boss / employee relationship. An employee is at least an adult; a student is much more vulnerable. Also, a student is actually a client of the school system, and a business is typically very careful about how i… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 02:54 PM |
| 2 | Possible solution to unwanted advances and sexual harassmentI met all of my romantic partners, including my wife, through social circles / activities related to academics (people I met in school). I got some phone numbers of strangers, in bookstores, while hiking, and on public transit, but no relationships emerged from that. I wonder if this is the crux of the matter: our society has a crisis in social capital i.e. people meeting with people outside work. See the book Bowling Alone by Putnam. Church membership is down. People have to pay sometimes $150k… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 11/12/17 02:43 PM |
| 1 | Betas of PPD: Why do you hate yourselves?Are there any reddit subs devoted to it? (What would it be called if it existed?) This is a discussion I would contribute to, if I could. I totally agree with "separating the wheat from the chaff," that's what I've tried to do from the first time I read about PUAs. One way of viewing this is that it's a non-pill philosophy, relying only on what BP and RP have in common. Another perspective is that it's a Blue Pill reaction to a Red Pill truth. Basically, you accept that relationships have all th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/12/17 10:33 PM |
| 3 | Betas of PPD: Why do you hate yourselves?Thinking back to when I first looked into RP theories ... all I wanted was to be a better beta (using /u/selective-autism 's definition of "beta" - a secure man with a loving, stable relationship with someone he respects). However, I read some theories by some pickup artists that said women will marry a Don Juan before they marry a beta. So you have nothing to lose by becoming a Don Juan. This sentiment is also reflected in George Bernard Shaw's play Man and Superman. Personally, I would like th… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/12/17 04:00 PM |
| 1 | Betas of PPD: Why do you hate yourselves?Ah I see what you are going for: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reappropriation As in, various terms that have been "reappropriated" by a group to mean a positive thing. The article lists: Yankee, Redneck, Obamacare, Jesuit, and even "Impressionist" (the art movement). | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/12/17 03:37 PM |
| 1 | Betas of PPD: Why do you hate yourselves?Whether they're genetic I don't know, but they are at least difficult to change. I have looked into r/K selection theory but never really made it "fit" for me. I'd be interested to hear more about it. According to attachment theory, peoples' attachment type (their fundamental approach to intimate relationships) emerges at age 2. When their parent leaves them alone with a stranger, some 2 year olds will cry but be consoled when their parent returns. Those are the "secure" children a.k.a "betas" I… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/12/17 03:28 PM |
| 2 | Betas of PPD: Why do you hate yourselves?Yep. And "Chad" sometimes wakes up at age 40+ to realize that he wants to have kids in a stable relationship with someone he respects - and is not sure how to get that. So, why call him "alpha"? Why not "avoidant" in that he avoids emotional intimacy and stability in relationships? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/12/17 03:11 PM |
| 3 | Betas of PPD: Why do you hate yourselves?The thing is, RP folks have defined "aloof, stoic, inaccessible Eastwood characters" as being somehow better than "romantic, natural fathers." This is a true sleight of hand or trick. Throughout most of civilization, the fathers have been defined as better than the sleazy Don Juans. What's happened is that in our society, there is such a long period of dating prior to marriage that some men who are good at getting lots of sex have 10-15 years to claim they are the best, for no other reason that … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/12/17 02:55 PM |
| 2 | Betas of PPD: Why do you hate yourselves?I like this post, except, if you're going to accept yourself for being beta, why call it "beta"? That's like being Jewish and calling it "sub-Christian," being an adult and calling it "over the hill," or being gay and calling it "sexually deviant." Usually groups that accept themselves call themselves by a positive name - as they should. I personally like "secure" for beta and "avoidant" for alpha, from attachment theory. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/12/17 02:46 PM |
| 2 | The disconnect, why would a girl that loves you give you subpar sex compared to FWB and ons? Does love have zero sexual value?Whatever the reason, I don't think it means the woman doesn't love the man. Maybe people behave differently when they're trying to impress others or are experiencing "dread" or insecurity as everyone does in an uncommitted relationship. That doesn't mean it's a bright idea to "dread" your spouse. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 10/12/17 12:55 AM |
| 1 | Are sexual assault allegations preventing young men from developing the appropriate assertiveness that women find attractive?Note: maybe I didn't answer your point very well. You said it's not difficult to ask HR, which I didn't really address. Sorry about that. I guess my concern with this is whether I trust corporations to handle this in a fair, coherent way. Corporations have no checks and balances. Their loyalty is 100% to their stockholders / owners. Example: I know someone who worked for a company that had a policy stating that you could anonymously report problems with your boss to an "ethics hotline." My frien… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/12/17 06:08 PM |
| 1 | Q4ALL: Do you view PPD and the pillosphere as an addiction or as something useful in your life?Reading PUA stuff seriously shook me up some years ago. It was as though the BP foundation I was standing on was pulled out from under me. I view thinking about it now as a kind of therapy, to help me figure out in what ways BP is still viable. I really like attachment theory, for instance. I take it to mean that the RP dynamic happens between some people (anxious women and avoidant men) and not others (secure men and women.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 09/12/17 03:13 PM |
| 5 | Are sexual assault allegations preventing young men from developing the appropriate assertiveness that women find attractive?My problem is that everyone says it isn't difficult stuff, and then they proceed to say different rules. I used to read comments on the New York Times on stories about date rape / sexual assault in fraternities. Given the NYT readership, they are mostly liberals. Some people would say "it's so easy - no means no." Others would say "it's so easy - no means no and drunk means no." Then others would say "it's so easy - yes means yes." They would literally say it was easy and obvious, while quoting … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/12/17 10:09 PM |
| 11 | So I been having some thoughts on what women want and how attraction is supposed to workI feel like RP started off trying to offer a descriptive account of how women think. (Women do think this way.) That means no woman is under any obligation to think that way, it is just a belief that could be true of some women and not of others. Then somehow it seems to have drifted into a normative "women should think that way." I'm not sure how it got there from here. My guess is that "confident and assertive" is a better description of what most women want in a man, moreso than "controlling.… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/12/17 03:15 PM |
| 6 | Are sexual assault allegations preventing young men from developing the appropriate assertiveness that women find attractive?I really like this solution best so far - (1) it's okay to ask your coworker to hang out socially, and only once you're outside work is it okay to express romantic interest. (Of course she may know what's up when you ask her to hang out.) (2) if the coworker doesn't want to hang out, you have to say something like "no worries, that's fine" and not bring it up again. (Maybe you could even ask "would you prefer I ask again some time or not?" to distinguish between "I'm busy that day" and "I don't … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 08/12/17 03:01 PM |
| 2 | What do you think about how hunters-gatherers societies were mostly gender egalitarian?When I looked up Nisa on Wikipedia (under Shostak's entry), it said: "In the book Shostak argues that !Kung San women had higher status and autonomy than women in Western cultures because of their food contributions." How is this different than saying they are more egalitarian? (Or are you objecting to the word "egalitarian" being used as if it is an absolute, total equality? Or do you disagree with Wikipedia?) Anyway, these sound like some interesting books. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 10:57 PM |
| 5 | What do you think about how hunters-gatherers societies were mostly gender egalitarian?Definitely, I agree. That was my point ... patriarchy came from the plow; hunter gatherers didn't plow; that explains why hunter gatherers would have been egalitarian. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 09:28 PM |
| 1 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyWell - I think what's going on is that everyone is frustrated with the way their sex life is going. Everyone wants love and sex, and they are either getting sex without love, friendship without sex, or neither. Everyone thinks the other gender is living in some kind of sexual paradise, while their own gender is suffering and it must be the fault of the other gender. That's just how I see it. All I mean to say is, some of the harsh things people are saying online are coming partly out of their ow… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 09:19 PM |
| 3 | What do you think about how hunters-gatherers societies were mostly gender egalitarian?I am aware. But I thought we were talking about hunter gatherers. All of those systems you mentioned (dictatorships, feudal systems, tribal chiefs, kingdoms, dictatorships, and corporations) are institutions that were devised after agriculture was invented. In all of those systems, humans - historically men - own land (or capital, in the case of corporations) and use it to dominate other humans. If you are farming another man's land, and he can kick you off the land whenever he wants, he gets a … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 05:56 PM |
| 2 | What do you think about how hunters-gatherers societies were mostly gender egalitarian?If you go far enough back, like maybe a million years back, then yes, you get to a time when humans didn't have pair bonding (like chimps don't have pair bonding), human babies weren't helpless and didn't need married couples to protect them, etc. But those creatures weren't really biologically human. In hunter gatherer societies, actually the leader was often elected, or it could have been a council of old men. I'm not sure what data shows that humans have never been egalitarian; I have never s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 02:11 PM |
| 3 | What do you think about how hunters-gatherers societies were mostly gender egalitarian?I think women's preference for dominance is like modern humans' preference for sugar. Humans really like their sugar. But that doesn't mean primitive humans were eating sugar all the time. They couldn't get that much sugar. There were no fancy desserts. In hunter gatherer times, overly dominant males were actually punished by betas. Dominant males had no wealth or property so it was harder for them to recruit betas to protect them. Thus, there weren't really any alphas and betas the way you migh… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 02:05 PM |
| 1 | What do you think about how hunters-gatherers societies were mostly gender egalitarian?Oh, I see. I agree then. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 01:36 PM |
| 9 | What do you think about how hunters-gatherers societies were mostly gender egalitarian?Here is an interesting article: https://news.virginia.edu/content/patriarchy-and-plow My somewhat speculative interpretation of this is that that with the plow, men's economic contribution was greater, due to their physical strength (women could not plow) and so men presumably dominated their wives. (Before, women were gatherers and their contribution was very important.) I assume this meant that women could not survive without their men and so they had to tolerate mens' infidelity while being s… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 01:30 PM |
| 4 | What do you think about how hunters-gatherers societies were mostly gender egalitarian?This is an interesting article, but keep in mind that this article says "after the advent of agriculture." OP asks about hunter gatherers. Hunter gatherers didn't accumulate wealth, because they didn't grow crops so they didn't own land. They moved from place to place and owned almost nothing. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 12:57 PM |
| 1 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyOkay, I understand about venting. I don't know what CC is. If you have a chance to read the article I linked to at the top, I would be interested to know what you think. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 02:05 AM |
| 1 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyOh I see what you mean. You are right. I guess maybe in my life RMV has been much more salient and important than SMV. There was even a long phase where I willed myself not to believe that models / actresses were attractive, because they were "just pictures." (I still believe that the attractiveness of actresses is to a large extent something that men learn rather than being innate.) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 01:53 AM |
| 1 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyThanks for your post. I am a little bit confused ... the article I referenced is not about age of women or fertility, so I am not sure why your post is about that. Can you explain more? Regarding essentialism. I can understand why one might want to call out essentialism. If someone says that women always want to have children, that can be viewed as an attack on the many women who don’t want kids. If someone assumes that women are heterosexual, that can be viewed as an attack on LGBT people. At t… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 01:49 AM |
| 1 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyI don't know what I think about this. In high school I got one-itis for years over a girl who was really smart and interesting to talk to. (I mean really smart.) I'm sure I knew girls who were more attractive than her from an SMV standpoint (i.e. how someone would "rate" her from a photo without knowing her personally), but I hardly considered those girls at all. So, men may not be sexually attracted to a woman's income per se, but they may be attracted to qualities, like intelligence and compet… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 12:51 AM |
| 2 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyHow do you get that out of an article that specifically says that women with education select for higher-earning men moreso than women from other socioeconomic backgrounds? Do you mean this line: "I found that the tendency for women to marry up in income was greater when they married down in education." To me, this says that for women, a man's education and income can be exchanged to some degree. If a man doesn't make as much money, it's okay, as long as he has a good education. The men are pres… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 07/12/17 12:23 AM |
| 2 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyAs I understand it, your article is saying that men earn more money than their wives. I assume a large part of the reason for that is just that men overall make more money than women in our society. Men might care about a woman's income and want very much to marry someone who makes as much or more than themselves - but realistically, they can't, because there aren't enough women like that to go around. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/12/17 05:45 PM |
| 1 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familySpeaking of economic factors - here is a 2016 congressional budget office report on joblessness and incarceration of young men - exactly the kind of things that would shift the gender ratio. https://www.cbo.gov/publication/51495 It says that in 2014, about 1 in 5 young men with only a high school diploma were jobless or incarcerated. For joblessness, they blame jobs going to robots, women, foreigners (outsourcing) and perhaps immigrants although “evidence is mixed.” Also the recession. Military … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/12/17 04:33 PM |
| 1 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyPeople get locked in cycles like these because of lack of access to education, lack of support networks, violence and crime making the "work hard, slow steady gains" route too unreliable/prone to disruption, and oftentimes nefarious intervention on the part of the upper classes who benefit from the status quo. That could be true. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on these issues as well. (Networks, violence, crime, education, intervention of the upper class.) As for generation 4, I agr… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/12/17 03:35 PM |
| 2 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyI guess i am thinking of it as a chain of events that develops over many years or even multiple generations. (This is somewhat speculative I admit.) In generation 1, the women want mcdonalds manager but they can't all get him. So some of them have to date drug dealer man. Or maybe some mcdonalds man has multiple partners. In any case, some women don't get married. In generation 2, the women start to say "my mom couldn't find a husband; I should learn to rely on myself to take care of my children… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/12/17 03:17 PM |
| 1 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyYeah, I remembered that someone had posted about this recently, but I couldn't remember who to credit. I think it must have been your post that got me thinking about this. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/12/17 02:30 PM |
| 1 | The marriage calculus - how inequality is remaking the American familyI think there is actually some ambiguity in the idea of hypergamy. Sorry if I am saying obvious things here, but let me clarify how I understand this for a moment. I could be misunderstanding. When RP folks talk about hypergamy, I think they are claiming that women want to have non-committed sex with the men who have the best genes, as measured by confidence, dominance, attractiveness, etc.; and that these "alpha" men get most of the sex due to the breakdown of the institution of marriage. This … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 06/12/17 02:25 PM |
| 1 | Help me understand selfishnessMy sense is that unselfishness emerges in various ways, such as (1) mutual need (two parents need to raise children together and have to get along; a military squadron has to survive together in a war), (2) repeated interactions so that if you screw over your partner you are losing access to what would have been a long-term relationship, (3) religious belief - the idea that you will be rewarded for unselfish actions, (4) legal consequences of your actions. Modern dating prior to marriage somehow… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 05/12/17 03:15 AM |
| 1 | Conflating unwanted advances with harassmentYou may be right that there is no quick fix. I guess I have some hope that if people would share ideas, think creatively, and work together on this, something could be figured out. But maybe they are already trying those things. Anyway, I appreciate your listening to my concerns; thanks for the good discussion. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/12/17 04:11 PM |
| 1 | What is your attachment type?Just looking up the definition of "plates" online -- wow, this RP stuff can make me feel insecure just by reading it. I had forgotten about that. I'm inclined to wonder if the ideal RP man is actually "anxious-avoidant." Anxious, because relationships take up a huge amount of emotional space and he is constantly aware that women may be disloyal to him; avoidant, because he keeps his girlfriends / plates at arm's length and does not aim for emotional intimacy. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/12/17 05:13 AM |
| 1 | What is your attachment type?I'm not sure I understand what a "plate" is. Is it a non-monogamous girlfriend? (One of several?) Does the "plate" know she is one of several? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/12/17 04:20 AM |
| 1 | What is your attachment type?That's a good point. I wonder if that's why RPs often talk about moving on repeatedly from one woman to the next? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/12/17 03:16 AM |
| 2 | Conflating unwanted advances with harassmentSorry. I don't think women should be forced to keep quiet. I apologize if that is how it came out. But the process should have some way of functioning without the public spotlight, or if women choose not to go to the media. What would happen if the public stops being as interested in this (I know that seems difficult to imagine) ... will that make it impossible to punish these guys anymore? Consider also that the court of public opinion has proved pretty inefficient so far at getting all the bad… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 04/12/17 03:02 AM |
| 2 | Conflating unwanted advances with harassmentMy opinion (actually based on my wife's idea) is that the court of public opinion exists to allow women to combine their accusations in a way that would otherwise be impossible. For instance, Franken's first accuser did not know about any other accusers, nor did they know about her. They had no way to find one another beside contacting the press. And without combining their stories, they were not going to get justice. But there are other ways of accomplishing this. If we could find a way of doin… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/12/17 11:57 PM |
| 2 | Conflating unwanted advances with harassmentOkay. I genuinely thought that some people believed all unwanted advances are harassment. For instance, I asked Google for the definition of sexual harassment, and it says, "harassment (typically of a woman) in a workplace, or other professional or social situation, involving the making of unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks." From this, I assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that Google believes all unwanted advances are harassment. I guess what I would really like is some clarity on what is a… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/12/17 10:24 PM |
| 3 | Conflating unwanted advances with harassmentThanks, this is helpful. I had the same reaction as /u/dakru in terms of assuming that asking someone on a date is a "sexual advance." If it isn't, that makes me feel somewhat better about the whole thing. I personally never asked a woman for sex until we had been on many dates together, in fact. It still bothers me, though, to have a situation where people are losing their job, their family, their reputation, etc. over this while there is nothing written down about what is and isn't okay. I'm n… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/12/17 10:06 PM |
| 3 | Conflating unwanted advances with harassmentI have definitely noticed this, and I think it's crazy to define harassment as "unwanted advances." Why do people say it this way? Sometimes I wonder if this has to do with social skills. I am probably more socially awkward than most people. Maybe if you are exceptionally socially skilled, you can just magically tell if your advances are wanted or unwanted? Or, you are better at making a move in a careful way so that you can easily stop before the woman becomes uncomfortable? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/12/17 07:31 PM |
| 3 | Conflating unwanted advances with harassmentThis reminds me of the ancient Chinese idea of the Mandate of Heaven, first used by the Zhou dynasty in 1046 BC when it overthrew the Shang dynasty. An emperor who mismanages their realm can lose the "Mandate of Heaven" and be overthrown by someone else. However, in practice, the correctness of overthrowing the emperor is outcome-dependent. If you succeed, it means that Heaven smiled on you, and so you must have been in the right. (And anyway, who is going to stop you at that point?) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/12/17 07:10 PM |
| 1 | What is your attachment type?Just to add my own here: I am secure I think, but I have definite anxious tendencies and have been more anxious in the past. As for which type is ideal, I'm surprised more people aren't saying that men should be avoidant. (Aren't independence, keeping a partner at arm's length, & not fearing rejection an ideal of the red pill perspective?) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/12/17 06:19 PM |
| 1 | CMV: Friendship is not the ideal basis for romantic relationshipsI met my wife by being friends with her first. We knew each other for several years as acquaintances; then we became closer friends for 1-2 months while I was interested in her but she did not reciprocate. I told her I was in love with her, and she said no. Then, several years later, we met up again at a gathering of some old friends. She said she had changed her mind, we started dating long distance, and we got married. My opinion is that the extended period of time was crucial for this kind of… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 03/12/17 03:23 PM |
| 1 | Q4ALL: Tell us about the time you got rejectedMaybe? I don't remember for sure. It may also have been nonverbal signals, like smiling like an idiot all the time when I was around someone I liked. Some people "wear their heart on their sleeve" even if they don't say it in words. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/11/17 09:37 PM |
| 3 | Q4ALL: Tell us about the time you got rejectedThanks. Maybe I am not that different, then? One more story - there was one woman who dumped me after a 1-2 week relationship, and told me I was "too nice." I was puzzled - how could you be "too nice"? That's like saying you're too smart, too handsome, or too rich. Later, I read feminist posts about how nice guys TM are not just losers, they are evil men who are "not real friends" and are just "using" the friendship to get sex, trying to guilt women. Apparently, all those past relationships, I w… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/11/17 03:57 PM |
| 9 | Q4ALL: Tell us about the time you got rejectedAt one point in my life, I had a tendency to do the thing where you are friends with a woman for a long time and afraid to make a move, or don't know when is the right time or how to make a move. In some cases I waited so long that the woman then started to date someone else. Or I would wait for a woman to break up with her boyfriend, only when she did, she was suddenly going out with someone else, not me. Then I told her I was interested, and she said no. However, another time I invited a singl… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/11/17 02:35 PM |
| 1 | How much of the Red Pill is male solipsism?Good point about religion. One other thing that I think I remember reading is that professionally successful women have to marry late, because they have to move up a career ladder / get a degree and not be tied down by kids while they are doing that. That means UMC parents give up on abstinence because they know it is just unrealistic. It is just too long for someone to realistically abstain. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/11/17 02:18 PM |
| 1 | How much of the Red Pill is male solipsism?That makes sense. Then, what is LC parents' end game? (And why wouldn't they want a pragmatic approach that is proven to be effective at reducing teen pregnancy, as you put it? Surely they also don't want their daughter to get pregnant?) | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/11/17 03:45 AM |
| 1 | Your whole sub and your whole sidebar are nothing but detailed explanations of how women are inferior, shittier people than youI'm sorry it was censored. If you were to name a particular belief or practice and state the concern in more restrained way (even if you don't feel restrained about it and it feels awful to talk about X in a reserved way) then I'm guessing it will not be censored. In which case I would be happy to discuss it with you. Just say something like "Do most RP people believe that ____ ? I have a concern that RP people may believe that ______ and if so, I disagree with that. Is my concern realistic or n… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 30/11/17 12:02 AM |
| 1 | Your whole sub and your whole sidebar are nothing but detailed explanations of how women are inferior, shittier people than youCould OP name a particular RP belief or practice for us to talk about? I feel that some RP things I have seen are horrific and I would agree with OP, while others are just realistic or practical advice in some situations. I think men and women are equally rational in some cases, irrational in others. I think the problematic part of red pill philosophy comes not from thinking women are irrational (most people would say women and men are both irrational) but from the belief that women have a speci… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/11/17 11:32 PM |
| 1 | How much of the Red Pill is male solipsism?I always thought they are pregnant at a younger age because they finish their education earlier and/or don't have to climb a career latter? UMC women have all these things that have to get done before they can have a family. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/11/17 11:09 PM |
| 1 | How much of the Red Pill is male solipsism?This is a good point. UMC folks certainly approve of sleeping around, in that sense. But I've also read that UMC folks are more likely to get married and stay married. Is it possible that UMC folks try to make their kids be "rational" about relationships? I'm sure a lot of those sex ed classes are about communication, equality, respect, negotiation, refusal skills, etc. Then they may sleep around, but they are less likely to have kids out of marriage, for instance - no woman really wants that. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/11/17 11:04 PM |
| 2 | How much of the Red Pill is male solipsism?I guess I believe the latter especially. UMC women probably meet men in college, who are the same social class as themselves. Also, rich men are only one rung higher on the social scale so they are less tempting, whereas for an LC woman the rich men is many rungs higher. She may be tempted to sleep with him even on a tiny chance that he might marry her. Then of course he doesn't, and now she has kids out of marriage. My problem with some of the other explanations (divorce rates, kids outside of … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/11/17 03:19 PM |
| 3 | How much of the Red Pill is male solipsism?I've heard that about the class issue, but I've never understood why. Do you have any theories? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/11/17 02:10 PM |
| 3 | Q4ALL: Why is it wrong to use your social status to get sex from women?I thought these famous men were asking for sex of someone in the same industry as themselves, and that is what was the problem. For a comedian to ask for sex from another comedian or performer, when he has the social connections to advance or ruin her career. I think if Louis CK asked for sex from a female scientist or a female doctor, it would not be a big deal because he is not in a position to ruin her career. On the other hand, if a male doctor asks for sex from a female medical student work… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/11/17 02:08 PM |
| 1 | If you had your way, what solutions would you implement to repair gender relations?That's true, but I think it matters if those men are approaching women while they are not getting any vs. if they are truly in monk mode and not approaching women. Say there are 10 men and 10 women. Due to their lower sex drive, only 5 of the women feel like being in a relationship just now. That means only 5 of the men can be in a relationship at any one time. The other 5 men are constantly approaching the women, hoping to get laid. They may even take desperate measures and become pushy or, as … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/11/17 02:02 PM |
| 1 | Which gender do you think is the most dominant “enforcer” of monogamy?Recently I was wondering if mens' and womens' social styles are related to this issue. Women's goal is, as you say, to avoid impoverished single motherhood, i.e. to prevent the man from leaving her. This requires some social skills, empathy, and manipulation from her - she can play on the man's better angels, bring in the neighbors or their mutual friends, etc. It's a complex problem that requires a skillful solution. Men's goal is to avoid cuckolding. This is relatively rare, but catastrophic f… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/11/17 12:42 AM |
| 1 | If you had your way, what solutions would you implement to repair gender relations?What about the MGTOWs' idea of "monk mode"? As I understand it, this is about temporarily avoiding women in order to become more independent and for purposes of self-improvement. I could imagine a society in which all men spent some time in "monk mode" or some variant thereof. Eventually, this could tip the balance somewhat by temporarily removing men from the market during a portion of their lives, thereby decreasing tensions. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 29/11/17 12:25 AM |
| 1 | Q4BP: Do you believe women value sex as much as men? If so, why is the concept of 80/20 so foreign to BPers?I agree with this; see /u/Electra_Cute 's comment above. It is somewhat meaningless to specify a threshold for attracted / not attracted. There is really a gradual scale from "I would never date this guy / girl" to "this is my ideal guy / girl." IMO there is no evidence that women are biologically driven to be pickier than men in terms of their ideal. It's just that women parlay their lower sex drive into getting a better catch that is closer to their ideal, at least with regard to uncommitted r… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/11/17 12:45 PM |
| 1 | Discussion: "Exiting the game."I thought these links might be interesting to you. These are average ages at first marriage: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_age_at_first_marriage Men in Sweden: 36 Women in Chad: 16 (Is this country named after "Chad"???) https://www.dailydot.com/irl/average-age-marriage-by-state/ Women in Utah: Age 23.8 Men in New York: Age 30.6 Edit: I don't mean to judge these states / countries by these numbers, only that it's interesting that there is such variation. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/11/17 12:28 PM |
| 2 | Q4BP: Do you believe women value sex as much as men? If so, why is the concept of 80/20 so foreign to BPers?Quoting from your CMV post: male celebrities would have literally millions or hundreds of thousands of dating options, in theory. people are still dating despite them not getting their ideal partner, people are having sex with those people they are dating, despite them not being ideal and they are even happy, despite their partner not being ideal. I agree that saying "80% of women only want 20% of the men" is problematic since "want" and "get" are not the same thing. The real question is the "ge… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/11/17 05:00 AM |
| 5 | Debate: “attraction is not negotiable.” Isn’t it though?I would say there are different kinds of negotiation. No one is saying that attraction is unalterable. I think any RP proponent will agree that if your apparent "value" or status increases, people will be attracted to you. The catastrophe increases your value relative to your competitors by killing off your competitors. Running the hobby group proves that you are competent and that you have leadership skills, thereby increasing your perceived value. Even holding the door for a woman could increa… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 27/11/17 12:18 AM |
| 8 | As a man, the biggest thing I envy about women is the 'sisterhood' and female solidarity that doesn't seem to have a male equivalentArab men hold hands, and if you Google Images "George W. Bush holding hands" you can see Bush adopting this tradition for diplomatic purposes. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/11/17 09:04 PM |
| 1 | Discussion: Swinging.I guess that description was a combination of several scenarios I had heard about. I was imagining both Alice and Eve as being a primary love interest (spouse or primary girlfriend / boyfriend) in two different scenarios. Actually, in one "change of heart" scenario I've heard about, it was my female friend who changed her mind, and the boyfriend would keep bringing it up to try to get her to come back to it. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/11/17 07:59 PM |
| 9 | Discussion: Swinging.In my circle of friends it is called "poly" or "polyamory" rather than swinging. My sense is that it does not always make people happy. There is constant drama. The man is happy not to have to commit to Alice, but then he changes his mind, or he wants Eve to commit to him and she won't do it. But that may be my biased perspective as someone for whom poly would be a particularly bad fit. I think people tell themselves that they are okay with poly, but humans are wired for jealousy and it is just … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/11/17 04:59 PM |
| 1 | Electra explains HypergamyAbout ten years ago I read a bunch of PUA stuff, like David DeAngelo. I also read The Game by Neil Strauss and The Red Queen by Matt Ridley. (Actually my then-girlfriend and I took turns reading the Red Queen out loud to one another - how weird is that?) But I'm not sure that the specific thing about sex drives was in those books. I didn't read reddit until very recently. I think I might have figured it out myself? I do remember that I spent huge amounts of time thinking about this and drawing d… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/11/17 04:36 PM |
| 1 | Electra explains HypergamyThank you! | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/11/17 03:05 PM |
| 10 | If you had your way, what solutions would you implement to repair gender relations?I don't know too much about MGTOW, but I like the idea of it, in that people find happiness without having a partner. I think feminists might be convinced to like this too - it's an outlet for men to find community without becoming PUAs or whatever. The only thing I would change is that I feel some MGTOWs are a bit misogynist. That's not necessary. It's possible to feel that "self-fulfillment is possible without desire" like many religions do, without feeling that "women are bad." Our culture is… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 26/11/17 02:01 PM |
| 2 | Electra explains HypergamyWait, I think I now understand what you meant. Your suggestion is that patriarchy is a way of socially mandating that men have power over women, thus making women perceive that their husbands are alpha / have high status. (True?) I see the point, but I think there are other ways to explain patriarchy. For instance, maybe in patriarchy women are loyal not because they think their husband is alpha, but because they are terrified of him. There are traditional cultures where it is accepted that the … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/11/17 09:44 PM |
| 3 | Electra explains HypergamyLiving your life assuming all women are hypergamous won’t do anyone any good. I agree. This is what Shakespeare's play Othello is about ... a man who worries that is wife will sleep with another man, and how it ruins his life. (Spoiler: he kills his wife and then himself.) I think in some contexts jealousy can be okay (i.e. to tell a woman that you are a little bit jealous can, for some women, be a way of confirming you care about her.) But there are limits to this and it may not be true for all… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/11/17 02:39 PM |
| 3 | Electra explains HypergamyCan you explain more about this? I don't understand. I do accept that patriarchy is real, depending on what you mean by it. (What do you mean by it?) Also, it occurs to me that if hypergamy was due to the nature of women (women always want hypergamy), Lesbian relationships would be impossible. In any Lesbian relationship, they can't both date someone who has higher status than themselves. One of them will have lower status, or they will have equal status. This supports the sex drive theory as op… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/11/17 02:29 PM |
| 6 | Electra explains HypergamyI associate hypergamy with male sexual inequality being greater than female sexual inequality. I mean that some men are always in a relationship, others rarely are. Women tend to be more in the middle. Even the highest status women may choose not to be in a relationship all the time. This difference is what permits hypergamy to work. If all men and all women were always in a relationship, women could want hypergamy all they like, they are not going to get it. It is not mathematically possible fo… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 25/11/17 04:55 AM |
| 2 | Can women control their biological urges the way men can?If women can't control their urges, why are Harvey Weinstein, Roy Moore, Kevin Spacey, Al Franken, Louis C. K., etc. all men? | /r/PurplePillDebate | 23/11/17 12:19 PM |
| 1 | Does the Red Pill perspective have any "net positive" suggestions for society?I did learn and try PUA / RP stuff to a certain extent. For instance, there was one woman who broke her first date with me for no reason, and I came down hard on that and told her it was not okay, and that we were through. As RPs would expect, she called back, apologized, and wanted to try again. But by that point I was seeing someone else. I also think that when RP works too well on someone I lose some amount of respect for her, and I don't want to date someone I disrespect. I know it may be un… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/11/17 01:50 PM |
| 1 | Q4All: When TRP says "blue pill" do they mean liberal?I definitely agree that conservatives seem to feel threatened by things that I don't find particularly threatening. Especially with same sex marriage, I am not sure what they are upset about. Unless perhaps it is the same thing as RP types are worried about - a roundabout way to preserve the "sanctity of marriage" in order to prevent divorce, illegitimate children, or whatever. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/11/17 05:43 AM |
| 1 | Does the Red Pill perspective have any "net positive" suggestions for society?Thanks, I should look into that Chomsky reference. And you are right about deference to authority, I always liked the Milgram experiment. I think, though, that feminism is not just a power play by an interest group that managed to position itself strategically in academia and the media (although it may be that too.) Feminists have the advantage that they are able to leverage many net-positive ideas. Empowering women is connected with bringing women into the workplace, which has expanded the econ… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/11/17 05:26 AM |
| 2 | Does the Red Pill perspective have any "net positive" suggestions for society?I can definitely respect wanting to understand what is true, just for the sake of knowing what is true. That's probably a large part of what motivates me to figure these things out. I will readily agree that power is very important, and if a group of people has a sufficient amount of power they can try to force others to accept their ideas using violence or other coercive methods. I don't think the feminist perspectives you mention have attained the kind of coercion I am thinking of. With respec… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/11/17 02:18 AM |
| 2 | Does the Red Pill perspective have any "net positive" suggestions for society?Good question. Did you have a particular dilemma in mind? [Edit: With respect to the Red Pill, I'm not sure all this is relevant. My point is it not only doesn't benefit women collectively, it doesn't even benefit men collectively. So "society" can be men, women, or men and women.] With respect to "what benefits society," I think it's complicated, because no idea is accepted by everyone and no idea benefits everyone. Sometimes, an oppressed group of people accepts an idea although they know it h… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 21/11/17 01:59 AM |
| 1 | [Serious Question] Is the Blue Pill just denial and delusions?I guess it depends on how you define a purpose. For example, a peacock has a long tail to attract mates. The large, useless tail proves to the peahens that it is strong enough to survive in the wild with a severe handicap. But the peacock doesn't consciously try to have a long tail. For all we know, it spends its whole day being annoyed by the darned cumbersome thing, and would just as soon get rid of it if it could. It got the tail through a process of natural selection. Would it be fair to say… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/11/17 10:51 PM |
| 4 | Q4All: When TRP says "blue pill" do they mean liberal?I'm not sure if this is what /u/Entropy-7 is referring to, but there is a book by Jonathan Haidt called "The Righteous Mind" which has three liberal moral foundations (care, justice, and liberty) and three conservative ones (sanctity/purity, loyalty, and authority). Haidt found these out through surveys, which you can take online here: http://www.yourmorals.org/explore.php - I think the top item on the linked page is about moral foundations. The conservative foundations tend to be about society … | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/11/17 07:16 PM |
| 1 | Q4W What is a "high quality" woman, and what is a "low quality" woman?I think it is best to have your own personal definition of what is high quality. People are superficial; why imitate them? You have to seek out people who seem high quality to you. If you try to base your definition on what others value, all you are doing is making life harder for yourself. In the stock market, some stocks are undervalued and some are overvalued. The most successful traders know which ones are undervalued. | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/11/17 06:56 PM |
| 2 | [Serious Question] Is the Blue Pill just denial and delusions?Yes, I think TBP does have a theory for the case you mentioned. On some level when people wear a certain type of clothing, it's probably because (a) it's comfortable, (b) it's inexpensive, or (c) someone, somewhere decided it would win others' approval. However (c) is a social statement; it may not apply to individuals. If a particularly glamorous actress wears a low cut shirt, women or teenage girls may think "I want to look like that." That doesn't mean all of them are thinking of how men will… | /r/PurplePillDebate | 20/11/17 06:46 PM |
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