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View 6 posts and 107 comments by Altokation on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
149

Fundamentals Altokation/r/seduction27/07/25 06:40 AM
112

Fundamentals Altokation/r/seduction24/07/25 07:26 AM
21

Field ReportAltokation/r/seduction22/10/21 02:42 AM
4

Field ReportAltokation/r/seduction24/10/21 05:06 PM
3

ResourcesAltokation/r/seduction12/01/22 09:02 PM
1

Field ReportAltokation/r/seduction24/10/21 05:17 PM
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
3

It’s the skill set of interacting with women in non-platonic manner
/r/seduction05/07/26 03:40 PM
3

90% it’s not what’s said it also how it’s said. Most of game is non verbal. Even a “hello” can come across incredibly attractive or cringe depending on the vibe.
/r/seduction05/07/26 03:40 PM
3

I’m 170 on a good day so it’s not about height at all. Learn game and get competent in seducing women. Looks and height can make it easier to get your foot in the door but game is ultimately what attracts the women long term.
/r/seduction05/07/26 01:16 PM
27

Now a days less common but still works. In this case you need to befriend the whole group, don’t go for the girl right away. But that also depends on the dynamic of the group. But the principle is that you have to also be accepted by the whole group or they’ll cockblock you. Simple opener for a group is “hey you guys look like fun” and cheersing them with your drink. You gotta win eveeyone over so don’t hyperfixate on the girls.
/r/seduction26/06/26 05:17 PM
2

Depends on what you want, this is a common intermediate dilemma. I personally dropped sidechicks after I found the girl I started seriously dating, but if it’s killing your motivation, you should drop them. It’s really a personal choice, keeping the player lifestyle or find someone to settl down.
/r/seduction26/06/26 05:15 PM
3

Smell is a big no no but I did have holes in my pants and my shirt was oversized and had stains. It’s not an easy challenge tho, you should not attempt without having an intermediate or higher level of game.
/r/seduction21/06/26 06:59 PM
2

I shaved it once and it was growing in lol. I didn’t keep it kept. Also my facial hair was straggly. This was a popular challenge for the pick up community back in the day, to look like shit and still approach.
/r/seduction21/06/26 06:55 PM
7

This is somewhat true, but game always does beat look maxing. For a month went out looking basically like a bum with a shaved head and don’t have any issues pulling. However there are some girls that did reject me initially due to my appearance, but was able to still break through with good game.
/r/seduction21/06/26 06:51 PM
1

This is a really normal part of the journey, as they say the path to excess leads to the palace of wisdom. After gaming for a while the thrill of it gets kind of old, and the meaning behind it disapears. The old meaning was for pleasure and ego gratification a lot of times. After satisfying that with enough lays, it does get really boring. The next phase naturally becomes to find someone to start a family. It's very normal.
/r/seduction15/05/26 03:57 AM
1

Actually good advice for once, double texting does work. And yes sometimes your ego gets in the way of results.
/r/seduction30/01/26 12:28 PM
0

Tbh these types of situation the bridge is burned. If you're really sincere, just send a text like "Was thinking of you lets talk." She'll either reject it by ghosting or reply and something can happen from there.
/r/seduction30/01/26 12:27 PM
1

This sub has devolved into people theory crafting instead of taking action and 10% self proclaimed gurus giving horrible advice
/r/seduction25/01/26 02:56 PM
1

You can develop social skills by throwing yourself into it. I’ve personally been wings with someone who had a speech impediment and was not socially calibrated but over time he developed the skill.
/r/seduction25/01/26 02:55 PM
1

You can do this and it’ll work, I’ve seen it before. Someone I knew used to have a canned opener and would approach 20+ a day.
/r/seduction25/01/26 02:54 PM
0

Can you stop giving bad advice and go back to shilling crypto
/r/seduction25/01/26 02:53 PM
1

Miami, and Toronto two one of the hardest places to date for long term, not too hard for short term fling/hook up though.
/r/seduction29/12/25 12:42 PM
1

Yea thats a good exercise you could start with
/r/seduction04/08/25 01:08 PM
5

I had a fear also where I couldn't approach without a wing even after approaching for 1 year. You have to just go over it and do it honestly. When I did my first approach without a wing it was really scary, but you gotta just face this and go for it.
/r/seduction03/08/25 03:19 PM
5

Great stuff, this is really good fundamentals of inner game
/r/seduction03/08/25 06:12 AM
1

Yea field reports are really important if you actually want to improve and get better. Used to post them on forums to also get feedback. Having a wing helps too as they can watch your sets.
/r/seduction02/08/25 10:37 AM
2

I used to just think out loud for 3 minutes into a recorder. Helps you just be less unfiltered which helps with gaming, also builds confidence in your speaking.
/r/seduction02/08/25 10:36 AM
1

Daygame is trickier but possible to pull. You need to build comfort, and build attraction, then go for instant date, then try to pull to your place. Or you can pull to a secluded public area, like top of parking lot, washroom. Easier method is from daygame -> 2nd date. As a noob this might be a lot easier to do then trying to pull straight from daygame.
/r/seduction01/08/25 12:51 PM
1

Yea it's because he's trying to use emotional push/pull instead of logical push/pull which is what most people do. IMO it's more advanced than using just words to escalate. There's infield of RSDMax pulling without using any words and this also demonstrates this concept.
/r/seduction01/08/25 09:26 AM
1

Asking redundant questions is the whole point of seeding.
/r/seduction01/08/25 09:24 AM
4

You need to plant a seed of pulling like, "Oh do you like ice cream? I Love ice cream, I have ice cream at home." But don't ask her yet, just give her some logical reason to go back to your place. Keep vibing and then say, "let's go for ice cream." But need some more context, is this night game or day game?
/r/seduction31/07/25 04:37 PM
1

IMO Julien has the strongest game in RSD. It's not everyone's cup of tea though, Todd's game is much easier to emulate for most people.
/r/seduction31/07/25 04:34 PM
1

I do not but you can find it on torrent sites. I dont think its considered piracy as they're not longer selling these programs, and RSD as a company is defunct. Torrent seem to be the only place you can get it.
/r/seduction31/07/25 11:21 AM
0

I really can't tell if you're larping Myron Gaines or an actual person
/r/seduction31/07/25 11:16 AM
1

What part of my questioning is demanding clout? Is asking questions always a form of flirting? So you were flirting with all your male teachers in school? So you're flirting back now?
/r/seduction31/07/25 11:08 AM
0

Why do you avoid such a easy question? How old are you like 25? Shouldn't you reveal some credentials if you're going to give unsolicited advice?
/r/seduction31/07/25 11:04 AM
1

So 0? Lmao.
/r/seduction31/07/25 10:56 AM
1

How many cold approaches have you done before?
/r/seduction31/07/25 10:50 AM
0

Yea thats the point of the guide to give noobies some moves framework to start. I also listed PIMP as it can explain outer game way better than I can. Judging from this comment you sound quite inexperience in cold approach. Maybe you lookmaxxed and go online dating, but that's about it. Also wrote a guide for physical escalation as well on this sub.
/r/seduction31/07/25 10:46 AM
1

Yea you are being treated as what they call an "orbiter." Basically friendzoned, the girl knows you like her, but she likes the positive attention you give her, she doesn't romantically like you. You're just fuelling her ego. You gotta move on.
/r/seduction28/07/25 08:36 AM
4

So then maybe you should make a guide to social skills for complete beginners? I don't really see a relevance to that and this guide made for beginners getting into game. Im a bit confused here.
/r/seduction27/07/25 12:56 PM
17

You can have social skills and not be good with women. I was the party guy in school who was social but couldn't get laid. That's why it's important to focus on game imo.
/r/seduction27/07/25 12:07 PM
3

Thats why I recommend PIMP, it basically covers outer game A to Z.
/r/seduction27/07/25 12:04 PM
1

So just from personal experience, I was going after women to just have sex/fun/pleasure, so I didn't really care if she was a bar girl, had red flags, just that she was hot. And yea once you get the skill to having sex on the first date, it's kinda easy to just go for pleasure. What I did was REALLY think about what I actually wanted from women. Was it just casual sex? Was it multiple girlfriends? Bunch of baby mamas? Nah I realized I really deep down don't care about being a player or pimp, I u…
/r/seduction27/07/25 12:03 PM
3

Oh buddy welcome to the emotional rollercoaster of being a PUA. It's when you discover sleeping with women won't solve your heartache and problems. Sometimes it makes it worse. I literally went through this exact phase, but luckily there is an ending. What's really happening is your brain is trying to chase that emotional high of your first intimate connection, which can never happen. Your first girlfriend is the FIRST one, and that feeling can never be replicated. But that first girlfriend feel…
/r/seduction27/07/25 10:21 AM
8

Yea it's crazy how much flak RSD gets, although maybe that's the bootcamps (Never took a bootcamp ever). Tyler's Blueprint Decoded and RSDJulien's PIMP program literally changed the foundation of my intimate relationships and also my life. I think a lot of people just look into the controversy or RSD, and don't realize that they were as legit as they came when it came to PUA. RSD had it's flaws, but what we have now is just a bunch of 20-30 year old fitness influencers who moved over to dating, …
/r/seduction27/07/25 05:54 AM
0

Sounds like you're friendzoned at this point. There's something you did or didn't do during the interactions so she just sees you as a friend now, as opposed to someone intimate. When girls say they want to be friends you need to draw a boundary and be willing to walk away, it's a common shit test. If you actually want a relationship I would just tell her that and say you're looking for different things, and move on.
/r/seduction27/07/25 05:50 AM
5

You can look for love but you can't FORCE love to happen. It's like when you go for a handshake, the other person still has to reciprocate. Learning game will also help your success rate with a broader range of women. I was in a situation similar to yours and what I did was: 1. Improve my game/seduction skills and life overall to attract quality women. 2. Have more patience and realize there's always another opportunity for love 3. Keep looking for love, approach more women, but stop CHASING it,…
/r/seduction27/07/25 05:47 AM
2

You can do it bro. One of the best gamers in my city was actually an indian guy who was only 5' ft and he crushed. Don't let your negative thoughts hold you back.
/r/seduction26/07/25 03:22 PM
1

No I never have, I've only read Physical Game by Ozzie.
/r/seduction26/07/25 10:43 AM
2

Yes you can. I was in my early 20's only ever had 1 gf and was heartbroken when she dumped me for another guy. Now in my 30's I've had multiple short and long term relationships, and even one night stands with extremely beautiful women, some which mighta been outta my league lol (one was even a beauty pageant winner in her state). Seduction and pick up is a skill which you can learn. Like others have mentioned you wanna do the basics like gym, get on a good financial path, and work on yourself. …
/r/seduction26/07/25 10:41 AM
2

I really recommend RSDOzzie Physical Game (its an ebook), I always recommend the golden age of RSD content like RSDJulien PIMP (video program), RSDJulien Shift (video program), and try to find old RSD content. I think someone even posted it on this sub here.
/r/seduction26/07/25 10:33 AM
1

This sounds stupid af but try to practice in front of a mirror, it works. Try to convey different emotions with your face and then try to look at yourself sexually. You won't get it by doing it for 5 minutes but if you practice it you can get that sexual eye contact down.
/r/seduction26/07/25 10:30 AM
1

You can think of kissing her while looking at her, that's a easy way to mentally hold a sexual frame that's not overly sexual.
/r/seduction25/07/25 03:43 PM
1

Seems like she's starting to catch feelings, and also wants to see if you're taking this relationship seriously. You should definitely be more chill but also follow the vibes, she may see something that she's looking for and you both may escalate.
/r/seduction25/07/25 04:34 AM
2

Yes reflecting on your dates/approaches is the only way to improve. But as someone else mentioned you want to be critical but don't let your mistakes affect your confidence. Focus on what you can improve and do better, but dating involves two people so you need to understand where it was something you couldn't control.
/r/seduction25/07/25 04:31 AM
1

You have the right idea, escalating should be done step by step. One phrase I use when going from app to date to gauge interest is if she mentions somewhere interesting or some tasty food, "We should go there sometimes" or "We should try that sometime." Your example going to video call is a bit too long though. You should use a shorter msg that also has some context to what you're talking about.
/r/seduction25/07/25 04:28 AM
1

Routines can be good for noobies as it can help you get out of your head by giving a set plan of actions, so you can just focus on the vibes and inner game.
/r/seduction25/07/25 04:25 AM
5

Another word for physicality/ touch
/r/seduction24/07/25 03:19 PM
13

I understand where you're coming from, but this is for beginners, and when I was a noob myself if I was told something like that, I wouldn't know what to do. I wanted to create a guide that is actionable so a complete noobie could do it. These are the things that was taught to me by wings and RSD in the glory days that worked for me, so just trying to spread that knowledge.
/r/seduction24/07/25 02:56 PM
14

Yet to go to jail for trying to hug someone
/r/seduction24/07/25 08:34 AM
1

Game is always evolving, especially texting. Certain texts or phrases may not work anymore because everyone starts doing it.
/r/seduction24/07/25 07:29 AM
4

Good luck, glad to see people in the sub taking action. If you stick with it, it'll be one of the most rewarding things you can do.
/r/seduction23/07/25 01:12 PM
2

A lot of good advice already here, I'd just add, don't act like this is your last chance at love, because it's not. Keep an open mind and enjoy the moment instead of trying to make the date a means to an end.
/r/seduction23/07/25 01:12 PM
0

Unfortunately, women do like men who are above them in the status heirarchy so it is a tactic that works. The reason is that women don't want men who NEED them, they want a man who WANTS them, which is a mindset switch that's hard for most guys (especially noobies or younger guys) to make. So pretending like they're "beneath" you is like a band-aid fix to not be needy.
/r/seduction23/07/25 01:10 PM
1

This is good advice not sure why it's getting downvoted
/r/seduction22/07/25 08:55 AM
2

Also agree playing with fire is great for texting. Some of it is outdated tho so you'll have to adjust https://www.youtube.com/@PlayingWithFireChannel
/r/seduction22/07/25 08:53 AM
1

If you actually want to learn game, the best thing is to practice. I highly recommend getting RSD Blueprint (inner game) and RSD PIMP (outer game). You can find them online for free if you dig around. These have actionable advice that will work especially when you're new. A lot of the modern day pick up stuff on youtube is just generic advice that's never been field tested, and doesn't lead to action.
/r/seduction22/07/25 08:47 AM
1

This is good, but not always true that you know it's "on" within a minute. There are some girls you need to talk to them and keep vibing because they have a high shit test barrier.
/r/seduction21/07/25 12:20 PM
7

I used to be ASS at texting, but here some things that really helped me: Reflect and review your text messages. See what works and what doesn't Experiment with texting. I sometimes send some crazy texts out ("We would definitely have cute babies") and they don't land, and sometimes they do. You gotta test it out. Also the reverse, I also sometimes text really dry like "thanks." just to see what kind of reaction I get. Seems like you're not taking enough risks, what kind of texts are you generall…
/r/seduction21/07/25 12:16 PM
8

You only get better with experience. It's good to have some pauses in the kissing tho, it builds anticipation and tension. For women they're more focused on the emotions of the moment rather than the physical sensations themselves, so just have fun and she will as well.
/r/seduction21/07/25 12:09 PM
2

Take pressure off yourself by eliminating expectations and go with the flow. Right now you're probably very excited and even future projecting a fun time, and imagining how things will go. Scarcity mindset is also effected by externals so if you've been open about it with her, I would still continue to talk to other girls to keep my options open. You just want to continually drill into your mind that this is not your only chance at love, and that there's plenty of fish in the sea. That abundant …
/r/seduction21/07/25 10:10 AM
1

You maybe also more intimidated because in the club generally girls are more done up, and that can make you self conscious. But remember that these girls are just girls, they're just people. They're also complete strangers, don't put too high of a value on their opinion and their rejection. They don't know you and you don't know them.
/r/seduction20/07/25 06:39 PM
6

Short answer: yes. Long answer: no. Why? Because everyone will have specific preferences. Some girls will like that you look Indian, some won't. But as someone else mentioned it's most likely not your race that's affecting your performance, it's most likely that your vibe is off and you're just not good at approaching. You should focus on what you can actually control and that's your actual skill in seduction.
/r/seduction20/07/25 06:37 PM
2

Oh you just literally start talking to the one you want. It's as simple as that. We used to call this "switching." You may have to engage the original one still, but slowly you just keep talking more and more on the one you want.
/r/seduction20/07/25 04:08 PM
2

Always be confident, hold your hand out firm and always expect the other person shake it. Sometimes you have to hold it out for 3-5 seconds cause a girl will test if you actually gonna go through with it, same thing when it comes to hugs/kisses or any kino. If she doesn't shake your hand, do not react, just put your hand down and keep talking. If she does shake your hand you can go for a spin move, or pull in for a hug if the vibe is right.
/r/seduction20/07/25 03:14 PM
1

This hits the nail on the head. Should have been escalating and getting logistics during the interaction if you wanted to pull a move.
/r/seduction20/07/25 11:40 AM
1

You kinda already fumbled as you shoulda talked to her in person but you could try to shoot your shot and add her on IG. But it may make the first girl jealous.
/r/seduction20/07/25 11:37 AM
18

From reading the comments it seems you have not even tried that hard to try and kiss in the club. You need to push yourself mentally, and emotionally to overcome that fear of rejection by inching closer to that rejection. Only by coming close to that rejection, you can become familiar with it and it won't be as scary. It's very normal to feel resentment towards others, but ultimately this is resentment towards yourself. Once you actually see the results for yourself, or see progress, you won't h…
/r/seduction20/07/25 11:36 AM
2

You have to realize that all social interactions deploy a level of persuasion and manipulation. And also consider that we do things socially we don't always agree with for the pleasure of the other party. Like in restaurants a server might feel like shit but keeps up the facade of happiness. It seems you already know what to do, you might just not be acting on it. Dating is a sort of social game, once you see it as such you cant let go of what is "right and wrong" and focus more on "what works w…
/r/seduction20/07/25 11:26 AM
1

It definitely works. Smoothest way is to reply to a story that she posts. But if you don't know her IRL then it will be similar to cold approach so they'll not always reply back.
/r/seduction19/07/25 01:27 PM
2

Yea could be you're not asking the person much about themselves. If you don't know the other person, it's hard to be attracted. Try to be genuinely curious about this person. After all, people are quite complex and you could uncover a lot about them. Try to ask them more about themselves, use more open ended questions like "how" and "why." Some ice breakers: "What do you like to do for fun?" "Whats something exciting you've been doing." Even mundane things like: "Do you have any siblings" "What …
/r/seduction19/07/25 01:23 PM
3

This is a problem that occurs when you are used to being picked by women so you have never developed the skill of being able to seduce them. The reason you've never been rejected is because you haven't had a large enough sample size, and you've been picking low hanging fruit. The best way to get over this fear of rejection is simply to get rejected and realize it's not going to hurt you. It will sting a bit, but you'll get used to it. I would strongly suggest you do day game as it's the 100% bes…
/r/seduction19/07/25 01:19 PM
13

Because the other guys have touched on the outer game that you need to do more kino, I'll touch a bit on the inner game. For a girl to see a spark in you, you also need to have a bit of a spark that in yourself. You might be being a bit too in your head on the date, you should be able to feel a bit of flutters in your heart, and translate that in your eyes, words and actions. Put simply, for her to feel attraction, you need to feel it first. This is a common noobie mistake where guys are a bit t…
/r/seduction19/07/25 01:15 PM
1

Best tip on this is just to speak without a filter. It's amazing how well it works. At first it'll be awkward but you'll get the hang of it. I've talked to a girl about the rainy weather for 20 minutes before and she loved it. It's more about the vibe than the words.
/r/seduction19/07/25 01:06 PM
1

There's going to be natural tension leading up to the date, especially planning it this far head. So it's quite normal for texting to die down a bit. I'd say your regular rythm of 12 hrs is fine, even 24 hrs. But it should be a value text imo, maybe something about what you're doing, something she doesn't necessarily have to respond to.
/r/seduction17/07/25 03:43 PM
4

You gotta just get out of your head and keep practicing approaching. Also try to talk to women without wanting anything from them, just try to vibe out. Think giving them value as opposed to trying to get something out of them. I also recommend finding RSDTyler Blueprint Decoded, you can prob find it online somewhere for free. It covers a lot of the issues you are going through. Women are also not like men, they don't care about looks as much as we do. For them it's all about the vibe.
/r/seduction17/07/25 03:38 PM
1

Instadates do work, so does night game bouncing. If you haven't tried it, you wouldn't know.
/r/seduction17/07/25 03:09 PM
1

Exit is really not important at all, my exits even to this day are pretty trash. Just a simple good bye, nice to meet you is fine. You can also do a physical exit to give them a bit of a spike, like hug, or handshake into spin.
/r/seduction17/07/25 03:08 PM
1

Not sure why this is downvoted but there used to be some wing groups on facebook ( I dont know the specific one for vancouver). Good luck on finding a wing, a good wing can really accelerate your growth.
/r/seduction17/07/25 03:06 PM
2

This is the advice he needs
/r/seduction17/07/25 02:49 PM
7

Simple system for daygame is: Comfort -> Hook -> Vibe -> Escalate It's the day time so first make them comfortable. Than they'll eventually get into a level of comfort where they'll be hooked into the conversation. From here you just switch between vibing and slowly escalating emotionally/physically. But overall just get out there and approach, experience is the best teacher.
/r/seduction28/06/25 07:00 AM
1

Qualification does work but it's more your demeanor and HOW YOU SAY IT is always more important than what you say. You could tell a girl, "You look... good." and that would get her to self qualify if you used the right tone and frame. The thing is for a women to become attracted to you, they must see you as their equal or that you are higher status than them. It's biologically and culturally conditioned. (That's why women typically like older guys.) Manipulating women is probably a very jaded wa…
/r/seduction28/06/25 06:57 AM
1

You can re-initiate with a value pinging text, something not needy. But might want to wait a day or two to send it.
/r/seduction28/04/25 05:02 PM
3

Sounds like you’re way more invested than her. It seems it is time to move on.
/r/seduction12/02/24 05:38 PM
8

Underrated comment. Setting progressive goals also help such as “I’ll improve my text game, kino , etc”
/r/seduction06/02/24 09:23 PM
15

It’s not that what you say doesn’t matter, it’s that HOW you say it is much more important
/r/seduction28/01/24 04:59 AM
1

In trying to hook up with a girl, there's always an underlying game and sub communication but it is never explicitly stated. Girls never want to just "hook up" explicitly because they don't want to seem like a "slut." Best way to hook up with a girl is simply to meet up with her in person and physically/sexually escalate. That's all there is too it, you don't have to say that you're just trying to hook up explicitly. Just get them out on a date, and escalate. You don't have to say you're looking…
/r/seduction15/12/21 03:25 AM
2

I've had this same experience as well and also thought there was something wrong with me because I was not actively pursuing women. Life has its seasons and dating/hooking up may not make sense for you in the season.
/r/seduction15/12/21 03:22 AM
1

Very
/r/seduction28/10/21 11:18 PM
1

Good advice, go for what you want
/r/seduction26/10/21 05:29 AM
1

Just like to add she mightve felt rejected when you suggested coffee as opposed to the study date. But otherwise I think Nick hit the nails on the head. She may want you to chase as she feels she was over-investing and got embarrassed.
/r/seduction26/10/21 05:26 AM
1

Looks good you’re overthinking it. She probably was busy, or thinking of how to reply. You have to remember girls are not texting geniuses as we like to believe, they also get nervous and wonder what to say.
/r/seduction26/10/21 05:22 AM
2

Dont beat yourself up too much, enjoy the W and learn from what you couldve done better.
/r/seduction23/10/21 04:49 PM
7

golden advice
/r/seduction23/10/21 04:47 PM
1

I think this should be taken with a grain of salt. Someone trying to get god at seduction should be taking every opportunity. PUA has some negatives, but there are nuggets of gold from there. Theres no need to throw out the baby with the bath water. Of course approaching for validation is bad, but so is going to college to make your parents happy. All depends where its coming from.
/r/seduction23/10/21 01:43 PM
1

This advice should really be taken with a grain of salt
/r/seduction23/10/21 01:35 PM
5

Yo dont do it. Ive been involved with bfs before but its not something I do anymore; ESPECIALLY IF A KID IS INVOLVED! Its not worth it
/r/seduction23/10/21 01:33 PM
1

100%, same also applies to dance or any art. it's part science but mostly art
/r/seduction15/03/20 05:47 PM
0

you have to just do it, use that anxiety you feel to take action
/r/seduction13/09/19 03:56 PM
1

You did the best you could but gotta move on here! I applaud you for your approach!
/r/seduction03/05/19 04:18 PM
1

Interesting advice
/r/seduction30/04/19 04:16 AM
1

This, dont let the negativity get to you.
/r/seduction30/04/19 04:15 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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