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AntifaSuperSwoledier Archive

View 49 posts and 1,700 comments by AntifaSuperSwoledier on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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Upvotes Title Category Author Subreddit Date (UTC)
369

CMVAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 09:44 AM
232

ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate11/07/21 06:13 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 12:25 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 02:42 PM
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CMVAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 07:51 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 02:03 PM
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DiscussionAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 03:34 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/19 02:37 PM
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DiscussionAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:33 AM
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DiscussionAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 10:11 PM
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DiscussionAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 03:13 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/19 07:12 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate12/07/21 09:29 PM
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DiscussionAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/19 12:41 AM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 09:43 AM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 01:18 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate04/12/19 04:09 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 02:02 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 10:47 AM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/20 06:27 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 10:42 AM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 03:26 PM
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DebateAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 03:30 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 07:37 PM
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NYE Purge Post!AntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/20 01:11 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 10:36 AM
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NYE Purge Post!AntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate31/12/19 11:20 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 01:26 AM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/19 03:29 AM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate20/11/19 07:32 AM
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CMVAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate03/01/20 05:10 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 08:05 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate27/12/19 05:37 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 04:13 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/19 12:50 AM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/21 12:00 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 11:26 PM
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Question For MenAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/21 12:48 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate25/11/19 12:24 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:03 PM
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DiscussionAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:35 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate23/12/19 10:52 PM
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DebateAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:09 AM
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NYE Purge Post!AntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/20 11:48 AM
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CMVAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 09:24 AM
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DiscussionAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 10:38 AM
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CMVAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 04:37 PM
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DiscussionAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 03:27 PM
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ScienceAntifaSuperSwoledier/r/PurplePillDebate01/01/20 10:50 PM
Showing the 1,000 most recent of 1,700 comments.
Upvotes Comment on Subreddit Date (UTC)
6

Given the increased noise about how little we all owe each other Do you mean when people say men are not owed sex or a relationship, or something else? Take gender and sex out of it for a minute. Would you feel differently if a weak man asked a stronger one to protect him because he felt unsafe? Stronger people protecting weaker ones is a conventional moral good. If you shirk it because you're not forced to do it, or make it conditional on payment, people are going to think it's wrong. Protectin…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/21 11:31 AM
6

in the case where someone approaches me about a creepy guy is it wrong to ask them for payment in dealing with said creep or the escort home Is this a thought experiment or are you wondering if you should actually do this. If it's the latter I'm pretty sure no one is going to pay you. They'll probably think you're really weird too.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/21 10:49 AM
2

Women judges also have been known to be more stringent towards women in general atleast in my country in terms of alimony in all. Men here complain about how the legal system is unfair and stacked against them in divorce court. If that's true your statement would indicate that women judges are more fair.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/21 07:57 AM
1

Kinda right. Looks are an indication of your genetic quality, but so is behavior. When women marry, have sex with and carry the children of "beta" men those are the traits (stable behavior, a willingness to pair bond and help raise children, willingness to share resources) they consider most desirable from an evolutionary POV. Things like the evolution of long term pair bonding and shared child rearing allowed the evolution of other things like bipedal locomotion. In primate hierarchies the domi…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/21 07:52 AM
20

given how you live I doubt you’d want to pay $35 for some salmon, or even know any good local places to take her (no offense) These are the kind of dudes who will be 35 years old and be like "oh I have never eaten Indian/Indonesian/Ethiopian/sushi/squid/octopus/whatever" before. Like ok little baby do you want some chicken nuggets. It comes across as very sheltered, conventional and boring.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/21 06:56 AM
23

I do not care about prestige or social status for the most part, so this drives women away. OP have you considered you may be boring to women? The least important part of lifestyle is the car you drive. Do you have a lifestyle that is exciting and keeps women engaged? Even small things. You don't eat out, but are you able to cook well enough that she's excited to eat your food when you cook? You don't travel, so how will you relate to cosmopolitan women, any women who haven't been isolated in th…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/21 06:51 AM
3

Knowing this information, is this really a woman you still want to be with? A really thirsty dude might and would be frustrated at the phone vs realizing they dodged a bullet.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/21 06:30 AM
1

Why do racial dating preferences predict higher scores on classical measures of racism? Seems like if it's unrelated we shouldn't expect that relationship to exist.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/08/21 06:27 AM
8

That last part is terrifying. Would be a deal breaker tbh. I hope most men are having the baby discussion early in a relationship and have already agreed on how an unwanted pregnancy will be handled.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 11:21 PM
6

I was recently reading a post in my college forum This once-again confirms alpha/beta dichotomy Internet anecdotes hard at work as usual. Ever experienced either side of this As a man yep. I think it's universal tbh. No need for them to shoehorn it into alpha/beta ideology.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 11:13 PM
1

SquidGTOW to avoid divorce tentacle-rape.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 10:00 PM
5

World's most elusive giant squid could be monogamous, female corpse hints Fellas is the world's most elusive giant squid a betabux.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 09:48 PM
0

It's called not being brainwashed. taking bill gates reptilian vaccine does nothing more than show the elite we're their bitches lol
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 06:34 PM
2

I got told by an incel that my BOYFRIEND is automatically out of my league They are truly the relationship understanders.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 06:19 PM
1

I have been sending farts in jars to the White House this whole time and never knew I could get carbon credits for it.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 06:17 PM
–

Why should it be collectively? MGTOW always sounds like "if we could get all men to leave women alone we sure could show them." Basically another revenge fantasy. Most men don't want to leave women alone my dude. I've always had great experiences with women so why would MGTOW appeal to me? Why can't you go MGTOW by yourself and be happy with it?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 06:09 PM
–

social darwinist position in which your romantic life is 100% on you This doesn't describe Social Darwinism. Your mating success is largely determined by your genetics: mating is sexual selection. you're supposed to restrict your response for some ambiguous moral reason Social Darwinism wouldn't advocate this, rather the opposite: a prescriptive struggle for the "fittest" essentially using whatever trickery is successful. Actually framing social taboos against it as an "ambiguous moral reason" i…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 06:06 PM
1

Ask any scientist and they will tell you that it is environmental. We dont need studies to prove it is environmental for the same reasons that we dont need studies to prove that water is wet. The current scientific consensus is that we don't really know actually. I have a PhD and degree that says "neuroscience" plus I teach research design - a class on the scientific method - so I'm right in that same category by the way. I'm very well qualified to read and interpret the research. I think the ev…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 01:58 PM
1

I mean you didn't prove it was environmental and not genetic so I don't have anything to disprove. Just asserting it over and over isn't proof. Your third link talks about single celled organims. Of course evoution occurs quicker in them as their life cycle is much faster. It gave multiple examples. And then in the other examples it is stated that environmental factors are the reason for the rapid change. Evolution is due to environmental factors too, so saying "it's environment not genetics" is…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 12:56 PM
1

Evolution study finds massive genome shift in one generation Rapid evolution in fish: Genomic changes within a generation Misconceptions about evolution: evolution only occurs slowly and gradually.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 12:32 PM
32

TRP men who blame OnlyFans for not being able to get a date still unsurprisingly able to get a date. Is Kevin Samuels right that OnlyFans will start working @ Subway again and thus reevaluate dating prospects? No. They will just move to other platforms. Good example of how TRP dudes love their revenge fantasies though.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 11:25 AM
2

One reason TRP blew up is because men were tired of dealing with manipulative time-wasting women, who feign interest to extract attention, resources and status. fake interest to get free dinner dates, to women child-support trapping and/or divorce raping wealthy men I'm not sure how many TRP men this describes since TRP seems mostly to attract people who didn't have a lot of dating experience. Like it's mostly young dudes, not post-divorce men. Do you think TRP and FDS provide the tools to reduc…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 09:59 AM
15

Interesting that lower use of online dating and pornography are on there. I haven't read the paper but I wonder if there is a third variable behind all of this like religiosity. At least a good chunk of these guys are not trying as hard to date and aren't the kind of porn-addicted dudes stereotyped as incls.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 01:33 AM
26

but they absolutely do not want their own sisters and daughters to be sexual playthings for old men Yep I made a post a couple of days ago that asked what kind of men they would want their daughters to date. Very few of the responses said they'd want a misogynistic RP dude. This is really just another example of how fundamentally antisocial TRP is. Men are willing to engage in relationships with women that they would not wish on their own female family members.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 01:22 AM
1

I doubt they're going to delete it just because a bunch of TRP dudes get triggered over posts that challenge their ideology. It's a debate sub though so feel free to post an actual argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/08/21 12:58 AM
2

Yup exactly. That part only had a small correlation with relationship commitment anyway at -.11. The partner perceived attractiveness + relationship commitment was .44 which is approaching large for a psychology study.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:58 PM
2

You might not ever know in that case.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:54 PM
3

Wait what? TRP, where Rule 1 is to lift weights, doesn't make you more physically attractive? Yep this will help. That is true.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:49 PM
10

There is an attraction-familiarity link which is probably a good thing for LTRs. 20 years and still that attracted is big goals for most people, congrats.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:46 PM
0

I'd say that's more like exactly what mate trickery is. Nope. Unlike every single TRP man I never struggled with women before or after. It's all the TRP men who gravitated to a dating ideology because you struggled and felt too unmasculine to attract women. No matter how much TRP ideology you or any of the other pseudoalphas internalize you will never be able to do something simple like upload your photo to Tinder and get a lot of matches. It was simply never in the genetic cards for you. You'll…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:16 PM
-1

Taking roids is an interpersonal behavior.. It's not. It's literally something you do by yourself. Interpersonal behaviors are those that consist of interactions with other people. It's not a sexual or mating behavior either. It's not a part of any sexual plan or strategy for most bodybuilders. Anyway the whole "but you do steroids" argument is a huge reach to distract from the original topic. What I do is totally unrelated to TRP. TRP will be what it is regardless of my PED use. It's a fallacio…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 10:29 PM
2

Are men drawn to RP really more agreeable? I can see this going either way. On the one hand, I see a lot of TRP dudes talk about how they tried to be A Gentleman (TM) and it didn't work. I could see that kind of behavior maybe being associated with high agreeableness if it's really in good faith (and not a Nice Guy playing a role). On the other hand high agreeableness is associated with positive relationship outcomes and TRP men usually didn't have those (and usually continue not to have them po…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 09:58 PM
0

It's objectively not. It literally is not a strategy of any kind. the VERY least enjoy the added female attention Yep. Rich people also enjoy the added female attention. So do tall people. However, having money and being tall are not sexual strategies either. Sexual strategies are interpersonal mating behaviors: how one sex interacts with the next to mate.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 09:44 PM
1

No my dude. I know TRP is full of sex-starved men who think of nothing but women, but most bodybuilders are not on gear to impress women. It's objectively not a "sexual strategy." TRP is a self-proclaimed "sexual strategy" designed to get you laid.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 09:37 PM
–

If you put it in your bio it will make people think the child is a regular part of your life and you're looking for a father figure for them. If you just want to casually date, men who just want to have sex won't care if you have a kid you never see. Probably better not to include it if that's the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 08:43 PM
–

They don't like anyone. They roasted libs, conservatives, evangelicals, trp, and feminists in one screed.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 08:40 PM
2

Essentially what’s going on here, is that you’ve made her “limbic brain,” attracted to you" Every day a new exhibit of TRP pseudoscience.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 08:36 PM
7

Yep true actually. Although I'm not sure TRP dudes want to be a sugar daddy simp. I think they want people to desire them normally.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 07:31 PM
1

If one man lifts weights and uses steroids for performance reasons, why is that better than a man who does the exact same behavior, but with the intention of attracting women? Here's a question: do the women TRPers sleep with know they are TRPers who cultivated their behavior and appearance that way? How many do you think would immediately leave a first date if they knew their date spent the entire weak reading about the Dark Triad so they could cultivate trait Machiavellianism and binging on PU…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 07:27 PM
16

Yep. "I want a tradwife virgin but also we do threesomes."
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 07:18 PM
0

Make up, heels, perfume etc all become mate trickery as well, certainly cosmetic surgery is mate trickery. What you clearly meant was is it make trickery of a severity that it should be shunned (more than it is) and judged as evil. I don't think you could make that argument. Here is a question to think about: would a woman still have sex with you if she knew all about the trickery? That seems to be a good line to draw between prosocial and antisocial "trickery." Makeup for example is visible and…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 07:15 PM
0

You still subscribe to the core ideology, more plates = more dates. Just no my dude, I do not. You're reading way too much into the name. MPMD has the top steroid channel on YouTube. Posting on the sub does not mean someone is a stealth PUA. You're making quite the stretch to try and associate everyone who uses PEDs with your own adherence to RP dating strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 07:01 PM
-1

MPMD is a steroid sub my dude. I wouldn't read too much into the "dates" part since the YouTuber it's based on is an ex-PUA guy who has said what I said in the past: PUA is a gimmick and the only working part is approaching women. You're not going to find much dating content there. You can rant about "snake creature" all you want but it doesn't rebut any of the points made. I'll paraphrase what I wrote in another comment: Most of the responses here deny that TRP is a Mate Trickery sexual strateg…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 06:46 PM
1

Yep I mean this might be Mate Trickery if it were a part of a sexual strategy. Since it's not, it isn't. So just to clarify do you believe TRP is Mate Trickery or is this intended to be a rebuttal? Most of the responses here have essentially said Mate Trickery is not real. "Using steroids is Mate Trickery" isn't a rebuttal though and if you believe that gear use all by itself is Mate Trickery you need to concede TRP definitely is.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 06:34 PM
1

following advice That's where you're wrong bucko - I give advice.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 06:21 PM
1

That's true, but that's not what Mate Trickery is.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 06:20 PM
1

According to all the people who responded to my post yesterday, TRP is a sexual strategy. Taking PEDs for athletic performance is not. how acting more extroverted or confident than you naturally are is mate trickery Yes, because you're doing it as a part of a sexual strategy. You're emulating more desirable men for sex. TRP is full of advice on how to lie to women, what not to tell them and how to appear as something you are not: all so you can get sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 06:19 PM
0

Mate Trickery is a sexual strategy when undesirable males mimic desirable ones to get sex. I was never an undesirable male who had a problem before or after steroids. It could certainly apply if someone who never got laid started getting laid after hopping on. The TRP pattern really: "women wouldn't touch my pp until I took the red pill."
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 05:41 PM
4

I grew up with boxing but not lifting. Also in US suburbia. In retrospect I wish I started lifting a lot earlier instead of getting hit in the head over and over. I've always said lift is good RP advice. I think most boys in other sports get similar advice though, basically the fitness + confidence aspect. like he'd grab his girlfriend's ass Something like this just always seemed intuitive to me. Like she's your girlfriend of course she likes the attention. I probably learned that through early …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 04:32 PM
6

And what about all the kids growing up who never thought to Google "does height matter"? Personally I was always just taught that girls were attracted to kindness, politeness, sweetness... all the things I already had. I think this is common for people who came to TRP. TRP probably selects for people who did hold that belief at some point. I think that's why TRPers assume everyone else holds the same belief, when really very few of us did. It would be kind of like someone who believes in Santa, …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 02:56 PM
5

Can anyone seriously advocate for the fact that 18 year old guys are less predatory? This is probably the best point of all.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 02:32 PM
1

the "perception is reality" crowd This is TRP. Made up entirely of anecdotes. The thread I just made is full of TRPers denying that genetics matter as long as they can do some nebulous self improvement that is enough for woman to perceive them as alphas.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 02:21 PM
5

You just said the article says looks don't matter at all. This is from the article and says looks matter.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 02:17 PM
1

I’ve read discussions on the sub telling men to never let women know how much work that they’ve put in, because guys who have to work to be attractive are supposedly less attractive to women. Yep exactly.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 02:15 PM
-1

That linked article says looks do not matter at all This is quite the cherry-pick since they interviewed someone who said looks do matter: Dr Claire Hart is Associate Professor of Social and Personality Psychology at the University of Southampton. She suggests that women aren’t judging the content of these photos, but their implications instead. “Research suggests that women (and indeed men) find well proportioned muscular men more attractive. Based on our ancestral past, signs of physical stren…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 02:08 PM
0

Shit tests are just a gauge of how Masculine a man Right, so less masculine men need to join TRP communities to learn how to appear more masculine than they really are.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 01:54 PM
18

TRP has a strange obsession over this topic for a community of mostly mid-20s men who struggle with dating. Like I get the motivation for these young men. If you're mid 20s and see women rejecting you for better men, TRP tells you they'll receive karma in the form of "The Wall" at age 30. Meanwhile your own value will increase and you'll be able to bang next generation's hot young adults. Fact is that if you weren't slaying pussy at age 20 it's even less likely you will be at age 35. You're prob…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 01:46 PM
3

I mean that's the good thing about facts and science - you're not required to believe it as gospel. It's empirically demonstrated. You can plug in "does height matter" and see the results for yourself. TRP on the other hand as a collection of unfalsifiable statements and anecdotes is much closer to religious faith.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 01:39 PM
1

Women especially know when guys are faking, this is why they shit test. If that's the case then the huge focus on passing shit tests would certainly be consistent with with a Mate Trickery strategy. You guys literally have to huddle together and build strategies for not getting caught. If you behaved the way you normally would then you'd fail the test and be discovered.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 01:33 PM
1

A quick Google of "does height matter," these are my results from top to bottom: Yes - https://www.wsj.com/articles/BL-JB-14685 Yes - https://www.quora.com/Does-height-matter-in-todays-world Yes - https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/height-matters-only-women-say-scientists-9123277.html Yes/no - https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4515642 Yes - https://exclusivematchmaking.net/blog/matchmaker-talks-about-whether-height-matters-in-dating/ Yes - https://www.sciencedaily.com/rel…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 01:14 PM
0

I am a research psychologist, I actually know a great deal about personality. Your comment is wrong. Personality is considered stable over the lifetime. That's the current consensus. Feel free to Google it yourself and post up some research if you think otherwise. Meanwhile here is an example from the Big Five, the most widely used measure of personality: Stability coefficients for the Big Five personality traits across 9 years were moderate to high, ranging from 0.73 to 0.97 in men and from 0.6…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 01:01 PM
0

Genetics aren't irrelevant at all. They are literally why we evolved the behaviors and traits we have. They are why women consider some traits attractive and others unattractive. Mate Trickery is a sexual strategy - it clearly has enough benefit to persist across animal species. The lower males are clever enough to do it. But it is what it is. If it works it's because the female animal thought you are something you are not.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 12:57 PM
-3

Extraversion-introversion are personality traits. Mate trickery is a nonsensical concept It's literally evolution my dude. TRP never takes more than a few comments before it descends into science denial.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 12:53 PM
3

RPers are always insisting others are secretly red-pilled. Yep one of TRP's unfalsifiable religious-style beliefs.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 12:43 PM
-2

the actual skills of being charming/confident The big problem is looking at behavior and traits as if they are not genetic. Look up the 50-0-50 rule. Most of your behavior is genetic. Whether or not charm is "fake" or not is irrelevant. It's totally relevant from the evolutionary POV. Behaviors signal genetic fitness. When males who have undesirable traits are able to disguise them it poses a threat for females and higher tier males. Less desirable traits signal less desirable genetics. Mate Tri…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 12:39 PM
-2

You can't become something you don't have the genes for my dude. It's mostly just men acting who have convinced themselves the role they are playing is real. This is why Mate Trickery is helpful for understanding it. Traits like extraversion are associated with attractiveness because they likely provided some benefit to selecting that mate. So pretending to be an extravert can have the same effect. Since this is a genetic trait it will always be pretending, however. No different from putting lif…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 12:34 PM
-4

"Accomplished anything" is begging the question. Personality is genetic and stable. Pretending to be an extravert when you're an introvert is acting, it's not an accomplishment. You do not have the genes for it and any woman selecting you for a trait that you are only pretending to have is falling for a Mate Trickery strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 12:28 PM
0

Yep the ability to improve even a little is desirable itself.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 12:12 PM
1

acting Key word here, because it's acting in the Hollywood sense. The men are not becoming what they pretend to be even if they trick themselves into thinking they are.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 12:11 PM
-2

Actually improving yourself makes you a more attractive person. And that's not trickery. Actually improving yourself is great. TRP advises men to emulate personality traits they do not have however. This is where we see a disconnect between the presentation and the genetics. It is a LARP. For example, introversion-extraversion. This is an extremely stable trait that is highly genetic. You can go to a bar and pretend to be the most extraverted person, but you will never be that person. Anyone att…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 12:07 PM
0

Breast implants perhaps are Mate Trickery as well. A signal of fertility. FDS seems to have popped up specifically to counter TRP style Mate Trickery. That's why they focus so much on getting proofs of income and on physical appearance I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:59 AM
-1

Could be. If you're attracted to a woman with make-up but then when she takes it off you'd probably feel pretty deceived. Kind of like fatfishing on OLD.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:49 AM
2

"Near every anecdote describes success." Weird claim since 50% of the growth in incl/mgtow communities comes from RP communities. Weird those are the fastest growing manosphere groups.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:45 AM
2

Masculine men are redpilled by default. Basically a religious belief. Since TRP is a collection of men who needed help being masculine in the first place, they are not good authorities on masculinity. It's like "sit down little boy and let the men who were born masculine talk."
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:42 AM
0

It means it's a big change only relative to yourself. It doesn't bring you up to the levels of others who naturally have the traits.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:39 AM
0

But you're free to believe that you should just give up and blame your genes. Although i think it's a victim mindset more fitting to a blackpill community. That's what TRP doesn't seem to understand. It's attractive normies and women who dislike TRP, not people who need to give up. The same as we see in animals: females and dominant males are threatened by the Mate Trickery strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:37 AM
-2

All TRP men have "effeminate pussy" genetics my dude. If you didn't you wouldn't have ever been attracted to TRP. It's an ideology for below average men struggling with their masculinity and their inability to attract women. It doesn't matter how masculine you try to behave. You will always have the genetics you were born with. And women as well as men to the end of the curve have an evolutionary interest in making sure the fakers don't mate.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:35 AM
-1

Stability coefficients for the Big Five personality traits across 9 years were moderate to high, ranging from 0.73 to 0.97 in men and from 0.65 to 0.95 in women. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/5819407_Long-Term_Stability_in_the_Big_Five_Personality_Traits_in_Adulthood
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:32 AM
-7

Cool story bro but it doesn't address anything in the post.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:25 AM
0

Nope it's a small window. I used an example of the Big Five because it's the most well-studied personality measure. We know how much personality is genetic from twin studies and we have great longitudinal data on it. We even have data on people who try to change personality traits. Fact is it remains pretty stable. It's like bodybuilding. You can make what seems like a big change by lifting. But you'll never look as good as someone with better genetics on the same program and diet. Your genetics…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:22 AM
4

Personality is mostly genetic. It's also extremely stable over time. Humans aren't static, but there is a small genetic window of personality that you can make changes within. The idea of a true "blank slate" was abandoned in the 90s. A good example of this is trait extraversion, which is one of the strongest personality traits associated with dating choice or attractiveness. You might be able to nudge it up a little bit but not much. Like all of the Big Five you're basically born with it and it…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 11:01 AM
33

Threesome is overrated and you can go to any swinger's club to find a gaggle of unattractive people with high sociosexuality who have threesomes on the regular. If you "could genuinely never remotely achieve this act" in your life, yeah, you're never going to be Chad Thundercock. My condolences. Most threesomes also occur in relationships by the way. If you're unable to form a relationship at all that's a barrier here. For all of the men who say "TRP is a sexual strategy not a relationship strat…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 10:18 AM
1

This is kind of an ironic comment and I think you have it backwards: I didnt mesh with stereotypical men at all, and my experiences were a lot worse because of it. I did. I was always one of the stereotypically masculine men, cool kids, did sports, zero problems with women my entire life. My dislike for TRP isn't super ideological. I just think TRP men are fucking losers. No matter how hard they try to remold themselves into what they think an alpha is it's always going to come across as manufac…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 10:11 AM
3

"Brainwashed" is a weird way to describe women who don't want to date losers and weirdos. Have some accountability my dude. If women don't want to date you it's you. Your looks, your height, or your behavior, whatever, but it's you. You may have more dating success going after women with lower expectations but don't fool yourself into thinking they genuinely like you.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/08/21 09:28 AM
18

PPD is the kind of place where people will explain what Brazil is like to a Brazilian person.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:23 PM
28

I think your premise has merit: US individualism is harmful for relationships. That said, Brazilian women aren't going to be any more happy about dating a loser, weirdo or ugly dude.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:20 PM
1

How much sex has TRP gotten you?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:09 PM
1

Yep pretty much. Men who get their butt slapped by a woman and react like a feminist caricature should be shamed for it too. This is why it's hard for me to believe anyone in the entire "men's rights" manosphere subculture has internalized any masculinity at all. Most of the time it's looking at double standards that exist because men and women are objectively different - and then crying that they are not treated like women.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 08:46 PM
1

Yep people have been saying this about the incls from the beginning.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 08:36 PM
4

36 year old communist who smokes weed all the time RP men this is your competition and you still can't get a woman to touch the pp.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 08:30 PM
2

There is some irony here in that the man you're dating is someone Red Pill dudes would probably consider unattractive. And yet he's not single while all RP dudes are.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 08:29 PM
2

I think it's hilarious that this kind of thing bothers supposedly red pilled men. It seems very feminine to whine about a woman touching your butt. You know men and women are different right? Part of the reason women feel fear about this is because they can't defend themselves against physically stronger men.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 08:25 PM
3

Good advice, ironically BlkPill is more grounded in reality in a lot of ways than RP.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 08:11 PM
1

The research I posted is longitudinal data on tens of thousands of people. This is not an anecdote.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 04:02 PM
4

Yep it's whatever people want it to be until they don't. Then it's "not real redpill."
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 03:55 PM
1

Weird, the research I posted that shows 50% of the growth in incl subs is driven by TRP subs isn't an anecdote. It's objectively not working for men who dip to incls/MGTOW Look, all you need to know is this: if being a "nice guy" worked, than TRP would be all about how to be the nicest of "nice guys". But it doesn't. So TRP isn't. It's not "rocket surgery" as it were. Pretty circular. That's like saying if "blue pill" dating advice didn't work it wouldn't be recommended by a majority of people.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 03:54 PM
1

A link showing that lots of men take the typical approach of trying (TRP) before accepting their situation for what it is and accepting their position in society (blackpill) does not prove that the red pill turns men into incels. You're conflating correlation and causation. Actually no, longitudinal and directional correlations are correctly interpreted as semi- or quasi- causal relationships. We see the direction of the relationship, we know one leads to the other. I mean I don't know why I'm s…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 03:16 PM
0

It would be more like if chemo gave you cancer. People go from normies who have chances at normal relationships to radicalized incls and MGTOW who will never touch a woman. That's the problem with internalizing a bunch of misogynistic ideology that makes them dislike women so much that they don't even want relationships any more.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 03:00 PM
1

BlkPill was invented by incls on incl forums as a response to the popularity of TRP telling them if they just lift and get frame they'll be able to get laid.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 02:48 PM
1

This is probably more nuanced and accurate.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 02:41 PM
1

Nah the entire BlkPill ideology was created in response to PUA and TRP. They came to believe no amount of behavior, personality, frame or game would overcome poor looks. See the link I posted as well. We see an empirical exodus of users from TRP/PUA communities into incls and MGTOW. More than half of the growth of those two communities are from people who started in PUA/TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 02:39 PM
2

Don't get pregnant, don't have a baby.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 02:37 PM
0

The sexual marketplace has worse inequality than any economic system ever implemented Actually the sexual marketplace is remarkably equal when compared with the world's economies: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/oym7dw/the_dating_economy_is_remarkably_equal_when/
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 02:34 PM
-4

they claim that women having casual sex is bad not just for themselves, but society as a whole So why, then, would you still encourage men to have casual sex? Because it's an inherently antisocial ideology that appeals to maladjusted people: "enjoy the decline." This also lets men judge and blame women for doing what they wish they could do.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 02:31 PM
3

You put a lot of effort into this response when you could have just said "it's all anecdotes."
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 02:16 PM
8

It looks like Red Pill can't make up its mind if it's about causal sex or relationships. For every RP dude who says "TRP has nothing to do with relationships" another one comes along presenting himself as a relationship expert. Anyway yeah - people in relationships report more frequent sex and higher sexual satisfaction. And TRP is not turning men who struggled to touch a woman into Chad Pussyslayer as far as I can see.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 01:46 PM
1

I have definitely noticed with PUA at least it seems to attract a very specific type of woman when it does work. It's like with daygame, if you approach 100 random women and one of them sleeps with you, she's probably going to be a bit different from the rest of them. Low self esteem seems accurate since some of the tactics are set up around playing off of that.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 12:44 PM
2

I remember when both the incl and rp sub were still open and the incls would go over there and make characters then post about it. It always seemed like a handful of LARPs + a bunch of guys asking for help getting laid.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 12:17 PM
1

Is it about having sex or not? The median partner count for men on PPD was like 2 people iirc. For a dating ideology that is supposed to help men get sex it doesn't seem like it's performing better than the normie blue pill average.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 12:00 PM
2

Red pill guys have more options I'm not sure this is the case. TRP attracts men who have struggled with dating. There is an entire world of normies out there who have always dated and had sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:56 AM
1

The reason I ask is because most TRP men don't seem to be racking up large n-counts. They'll be like "I did better" but n-count is 4 people. Like my dude that's still below average and while it may be an improvement it's hard to call TRP successful when compared with the normal dating world.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:42 AM
0

I did ''spin plates'' as in date others at the same time and it worked well. How well did it work - how many partners did you have before and how many did you have after? How many do you have at the moment?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:37 AM
1

How much sex did you have before TRP vs after TRP?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:36 AM
2

How specifically did it work for you?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:32 AM
2

Which works better? "get fit to attract the beautiful girl that you care about", or "well that girl that you care about, probably she is getting ducked by a dozen of other men right now, and none of them is you, she is not that cute angel you thought she was". The first one. It at least tells you to get fit, which is good for you and has an empirical relationship to attractiveness. The second one is just made up. You have no idea what that girl's sex life is like, so fundamentally it's a lie you…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:31 AM
1

Spinning plates to get dating experience before settling down as a bad choice from scarcity mentality. Alright let's look at this specifically. Why do you believe that promiscuity and maintaining multiple simultaneous relationships will help your future relationship outcomes? Something talked about here often is how promiscuity predicts divorce. This does not only apply to women. Also did you spin plates and did it help you find a happy relationship?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:23 AM
1

Alright, so we rule out happy relationships. TRP already loses a ton of utility for most people. How did TRP change your casual sex life? How much casual sex did you get before vs now?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:19 AM
5

Alright, so TRP does not give them the tools they need to form the relationships they want. It can't lower the price, or bring them higher quality women.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:15 AM
2

I think dropping out of romantic relationships entirely is a failure. It's the abandonment of relationships that they really wanted to have, but were unable to. They're not asexual aromantics who were never interested in those relationships. They just gave up. That aside, MGTOW is not the end goal for anyone who wants what I described in the OP: to have relationships, to have good relationships or to have sexual partners. You also don't need TRP ideology to say fuck it I don't want to date any m…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:12 AM
1

So the core ideology is lift and approach - we can strip TRP of all of the peripheral misogynistic ideology. What the men needed was just someone to tell them to get their shit together. They didn't need to have a quasi-religious ideological awakening explained analogously by Neo taking the red pill in The Matrix. pretty boy in the world and one day someone will want to be with you, so just be yourself just be yourself and wait, that is the mainstream dating advice and ideology given to most men…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 11:09 AM
1

How specifically has it worked for you?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:58 AM
1

Alright, so you don't need to believe TRP inventions like The Wall/AWALT etc.? I said those are incorrect things but if you don't need to believe in them what remains? What is crucial and fundamental in TRP that you must believe or do?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:57 AM
1

MGTOW is a pretty big failure imo. Men who were unable to form the kind of relationship with women they desired and dropped out of the race entirely.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:49 AM
0

It seems like it's pretty hit or miss if lots of the people who receive the message end up as single incls/MGTOW though. By internalizing the ideology they end up in worse places than they started.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:37 AM
1

Alright so for anecdotes, how did TRP help you personally? What specifically did you do and what results did you see?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:33 AM
2

This is a more nuanced take than a lot of TRPers who treat it as religion. If TRP is the first time a man heard he needs to stop wearing an anime waifu t-shirt and hit the gym, credit due to TRP in that case. It's probably a shame no one told him that without all the peripheral ideology but at least someone told him eventually.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:24 AM
1

So what information in the red pill exactly doesn't work or is incorrect? Things like a belief in alphas/betas, AWALT, or The Wall are examples of pure ideology. Do you need to believe those things to see results, are they even prescriptive enough to modify behavior? We see a lot of ideological overlap on these points and communities that are defined by their failures with women, such as MGTOW/incls. It would seem like holding those beliefs doesn't contribute at all to dating results. This would…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:21 AM
1

Just saying "you're wrong it works" isn't much of an argument. Why do you think it works and what evidence could you present to show someone else it works?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:15 AM
4

You can't say "the useful parts of TRP don't count as TRP because they're useful". I'd say, more accurately, TRP "doesn't work" for people who aren't actually dedicated to self-improvement. If it's the self-improvement facets that work (and if TRP doesn't work when those are not followed) it sounds like TRP isn't needed at all. You can get basic advice like lift weights anywhere. We can tease apart what does work and doesn't work with the TRP-incl/MGTOW pipeline as well. They still retain all of…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 10:10 AM
1

Is that what we're calling it now? If it can't be replicated in a lab, its not science. It can be replicated. There is nothing in this methodology inherently non-replicable. If this specific finding will actually be replicated is unknown, but the study does use the scientific method.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 02:35 AM
1

I believe you mean test-retest reliability. Please learn the difference between validity and reliability in a psychometric context. Nope. There is considerable evidence for the validity of these measures in terms of relationships with their full-length measures, test-retest validity, internal consistency, structural properties, and efficacy in answering research questions (Jonason & Webster, 2010; Jones & Paulhus, 2014). Serbian adaptations of the Dark Triad Dirty Dozen (DTDD) and Short Dark Tri…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 01:34 AM
9

Any time you see a movie, read magazine, open Instagram or watch TikTok. What do the men and women look like my dude - are they little 4/10 bald men?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 01:07 AM
2

You don't need an entire Internet ideology to tell men they need to be attractive. Also most people already know that. The message is ubiquitous in the media.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/08/21 01:01 AM
3

I bet she wishes she settled down with a mediocre average man at 20 years old and had a baby. /s
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 08:57 PM
8

I used to think DT traits predicted attractiveness but I don't any more. The research on it hasn't been consistent and has generated weak evidence at best. The study here for example is based on a single text description of a fictional Dark Triad man. We can't assume any generalizability here to real life attractiveness or mate selection. What we actually see is that men high in DT traits have lower standards of attractiveness and are more willing to engage in exploitative and risky behavior. Th…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 08:34 PM
3

"Women want to have sex with the gorilla" is the kind of borderline conspiracy theory mindset that brought us classics like the dogpill.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 07:59 PM
2

We all know men who are total narcissistic psychopaths, and they have new girlfriends every single month. We don't actually and recycled Internet anecdotes get dismissed out of hand.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 07:50 PM
2

Source: trust me bro.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 07:49 PM
1

Self-report data is completely unreliable and invalid It's not actually, which is why it's still used in every scientific discipline that works with people. This comment is pure science denial. If it were completely unreliable it wouldn't have test-retest validity or predictive validity. It would just be noise. The fact we can reliably test and retest individuals to get the same results is a form of statistical proof that a psychometric device measures something consistently. The fact it consist…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 07:41 PM
1

Humans are serially monogamous. Men have more of an incentive to switch partners in human evolution since men don't carry the burden of childbirth. This is probably why men cheat more.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 07:05 PM
1

All of this seems to be nothing more than men benefitting at the expense of women and claiming 'muh biology' as an excuse. Yep - as if human beings didn't evolve pair bonding behaviors, a nine month gestation and extended infancy/childhood that requires a dual or collective parenting strategy. Like we have salmon biology and just fertilize the egg and dip.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 07:03 PM
2

People are calling him gigachad and hot squidward
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 05:27 PM
2

I mean people on TRP here write like that all the time. It's not nearly as unhinged as things people regularly post here. The question itself is of course legitimate. We don't know what the causal relationship is here.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 04:58 PM
3

We should treat them like an extremist movement tbh.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 04:48 PM
1

Being a rather obsessively logical person, I know why I felt angry about this paper, and I worked very hard to step back from it and approach it in a thoroughly scientific manner. In the end, it's not a bad paper. The data are the data, as my graduate advisor always says. So she immediately checked her own biases, which is actually pretty reasonable. Not much of a meltdown here.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 04:45 PM
2

What do you all think of Zac Efron's post plastic surgery face? He has been getting roasted on social media. The general consensus seems to be that it is less attractive. This is consistent with what we would expect from research that shows the most masculine faces are not the most attractive. However, Zac's new face is more masculine and dimorphic, which TRP says should be more attractive. Here are some photos to compare. Also please state which face you prefer (Young/Old) and your gender (Male…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 04:39 PM
5

I also wonder how many people really think that "be yourself" means "don't do anything to improve yourself". Probably a bunch. I see this a lot in the manosphere too, despite the self improvement themes. Men will legit be like "I don't want to change for a woman" when you tell them to learn a skill or do something to raise their value. "Dress better" might get you a response like "Chad doesn't dress better and he gets all the women anyway so why should I."
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 04:22 PM
2

You should post it, it seems like a good topic. I noticed this too and was thinking something similar recently.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 04:18 PM
23

Yes true. I forget people use the term antisocial colloquially often to mean people who are introverted or shy. Introverts and shy people aren't antisocial. Also antisocial disorders are uncommon but antisocial personality traits are more common. Most of the Nice Guys probably couldn't be diagnosed with anything. They might score higher in other personality measures though. The obvious one would be something like hostile sexism but maybe also DT traits or something like social dominance orientat…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 03:45 PM
7

high disgust Disgust sensitivity as a trait specifically is related to political and social conservativism. I think these are the men who fret a lot about n-count and become mgtow/incls, or who entertain revenge fantasies about the wall. If you read the "Michael" story thread yesterday that's probably a really good example of a man with high sensitivity to disgust. I don't think these men will ever be able to internalize the "enjoy the decline" and casual sex part of TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 03:39 PM
4

"Works" very loosely though because it still seems like most of them are struggling with relationships, dates and sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 02:55 PM
0

Couple ways to interpret this: Are/were they in relationships? Perhaps they regret settling down early or not living it up. Are they perpetually single and unable to find a partner? Perhaps trying to justify their own life trajectory.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 02:28 PM
1

Post the paper you think supports it the most strongly.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 01:56 PM
3

"I want a girlfriend" is the least pathetic expression of desire actually. It's just a simple honest statement. If you want to see pathetic look at the way ideologies like TRP/incls have turned "I want a girlfriend" into something that is borderline mental illness. The absolute angst and despair these dudes have over not being able to get anyone to touch the pp. Dudes don't even want a girlfriend any more. They sublimed that desire into a weird ideology where they hate most women.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 01:50 PM
3

they actually want Why do TRP men, who are attracted to TRP/PUA/etc. largely because they are not "alpha," always think they know what more masculine men want? Like clearly it isn't personal experience. Look at the person you responded to: she said she likes motorcycles. Look at the kind of women hyper-masculine biker subculture is attracted to. They are not ultra feminine tradwives.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 11:41 AM
1

ok incel
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 11:25 AM
1

I mean yeah, people are going to shame you for it and view you negatively because of it. It's antisocial behavior. "But society does antisocial things" isn't going to excuse it because it's an interpersonal behavior you have full control over. It will impact your romantic and non romantic relationships because of it. People will see you as low class and trust you less. It will turn away people who think it's an immoral behavior. "Good and bad is relative" isn't going to help since human beings f…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 11:11 AM
12

It’s fine by you until you hit the wall and the free attention you get from men dries up. A revenge fantasy told by men who are angry women have not consistently picked them as mates.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 10:59 AM
3

Of course the evolutionary reality is that males with a lot of supposedly "alpha" traits were the ones doing a lot of the rape.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 10:56 AM
7

I’ve come to learn that I need a very masculine man as my partner in order to make it work. TRP men will really struggle with this since a lot of people came to TRP from a position of being very unmasculine. A good part of the manosphere is dedicated to trying to help less masculine men become more masculine. The desire for a woman who slots into a traditionally submissive feminine role really reflects that. Like you said, even something like riding a motorcycle is going to be too much for a lot…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 10:40 AM
47

Having kids young is a great way to ruin your life actually.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 10:18 AM
2

Weird I don't see anything here that applies to sex or dating. You're going to need to be able to show that 80/20 applies to the specific thing you claim it does.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 10:13 AM
1

Evolution doesnt happen in a few decades , it happens after millions of years. 2/3 generations of difference doesnt do that. Evolution happens on a generational level and huge changes can occur after just one generation. This is something we observe in animals today and something Darwin explained as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 10:06 AM
0

No there isn't actually. Rating random men one through ten online is exactly the same as rating random men one through ten on a survey. Just saying "it's different" doesn't make it so.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 10:04 AM
1

Prove it my dude.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 10:02 AM
1

It's very weak actually if you read the research instead of watching a Joe Rogan interview.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 10:01 AM
-2

I just went outside and observed you are wrong. Flawless methodology.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/08/21 12:00 AM
2

OLD basically is a questionnaire. It's based on a swipe yes/no response, or in the case of the OKCupid data a rating of 1 through 10.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 10:06 PM
4

Which Taliban warlord in the photo linked in the OP is your favorite?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 09:27 PM
3

mild scaring When you got your ideas of male attractiveness from comic books.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 09:21 PM
3

You got it. This was exactly what I had in mind with this post.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 08:51 PM
3

What evidence or argument would really change your view on this OP? It's clearly antisocial behavior but if you've already decided "fair game" it's akin to someone steeling themselves to break the law or break some other social taboo. This loophole creates an excess of single men without children and single moms. Not like the men who can't get a date are the ones who are going to be hunting married women. This sounds more like a LVM fantasy now. Maybe if you're a thirsty dude with few options yo…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 08:37 PM
2

Sure, I wouldn't base an entire ideology on this one study. We see women rated as more attractive than men pretty consistently however. When we use normalized faces in research on facial attractiveness these don't have makeup for example.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 08:13 PM
9

Might take me a minute to find a real source but here is a dermatologist: On average, male skin is about 20 – 25 percent thicker than women’s, as well as having a tougher texture. https://dermatologyassociatesga.com/difference-between-male-and-female-skin
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 07:56 PM
8

women go for looks at even higher rates. According to what?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 07:37 PM
5

Why don't men just exfoliate their skin? Will washing my face make me a beta tho
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 07:36 PM
25

OP, we see that even as children girls are rated as more attractive than boys. Make-up probably pushes the two even further apart. However, there are features considered objectively attractive in men and women that women have more of. An example of this are neonate traits like large eyes and mouths, or smooth skin. The same waist-hip ratio is seen as attractive in both men and women as well. Yet women are more likely to have the ideal ratio.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 07:26 PM
2

Yep unfortunately science be like that. You have to remain cognitively flexible and ready to change your mind with new evidence, admit you don't know, and be comfortable with uncertainty. TRP is like religion, it claims to have solid universal answers and gives men rigid cognitive rules. I think that appeals to a certain type of mind. It's way easier to have a rule like AWALT that you can fall back on and a bunch of Red Pill lore that's like Biblical scripture.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 07:11 PM
4

Per this story he was rejected by the women. So it would seem he did want them.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 07:03 PM
3

Who is your favorite alpha warlord in the photo?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 07:02 PM
1

Isn't it a mating thing? That means that your potential mate is the one who qualifies you. All it means is that the genes are passed on. Mating can (and often has been) by force. In recent human history (<10,000 years) we also see a lot organized mating, such as arranged marriage or sales of women. It's actually only pretty recently and Western that women get a coercion-free choice of who to mate with. So what we see are that many of the "alpha" traits per TRP - physical size, high dimorphism, h…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 06:57 PM
0

Imagine understanding statistics this poorly lmao Fortunately I'm a research psychologist who teaches statistics so I can set you straight. What we're comparing here are the means of two different groups: men and women. They do not need to be the same. Try to think about it intuitively with a different example: Average bench press strength for women is 30kg. Average bench press strength for men is 60kg. Both are averages. Neither are the same absolute number. Men are stronger than women. You can…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 06:51 PM
5

"Blue Pill" isn't real OP. It's just the way an ideological Internet community categorizes all outsiders. For example: while BP will tell me that by vetting my partner properly, marriage should be sunshine and rainbows for life No one in the conventional world of normal people is telling you this. This is the kind of thing TRP tells you "Blue Pill" believes. Google "is marriage easy" and see how many people are telling you that. For every great post with statistical evidence backing up a claim t…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 06:45 PM
3

I don't base beliefs on anecdotes. However it's not women that group men into "alphas" and "betas." That's something men do, invented and popularized by TRP.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 06:38 PM
-1

what do you think it means lol
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 06:35 PM
3

You do understand that humans have a much different mating system than the rest of the animals, right? Human mating is extremely similar to chimpanzees actually, particularly if we look at what we know of early humans. We don't have a "much different mating system" from our closest primate relatives. And just saying "females say so" doesn't make it so. You'll have to support claims like that with evidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 06:34 PM
2

I feel you’d find literally zero women who are turned on by these men or this photo. I agree. However these men in the photo have highly dimorphic masculine traits. Behaviorally they are leaders and aggressive. Per TRP they should be attractive to women. And yet.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 06:05 PM
2

TRP tries to describe alpha/beta as evolved traits or behavior sets. In human and primate evolution the use of force, violence and rape to secure mates has been pretty important. Science of course doesn't validate the TRP alpha/beta dichotomy. If it were real however then we should be able to relate it to what we see here, which hasn't been an uncommon arrangement in human civilization.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 06:02 PM
2

In primates less dominant males use violence against more dominant males to drive them away from females + use force to mate with them. Rape is a selective pressure. In human mating - an alpha male is someone who a female actively chooses to mate with without any force or bribery being involved. According to who? And why does TRP associate aggression, high testosterone, antisocial behavior etc. with alphas when evolutionarily these are associated with males using force to secure mates? These are…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 05:51 PM
0

80/20 is based on OKCupid ratings. When we look at real world measures like number of sexual partners, number of dates, or relationships, it isn't 80/20.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 05:39 PM
3

women have a genuine attraction - the key word being "genuine" How do you quantify and empirically show when a woman's attraction is "genuine" or not?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 05:38 PM
0

We can look at it but it has to remain in context. The way women rate men on a dating app, swipe or send messages is a limited measure. People try to do things like generalize OKCupid ratings to sexual partners, claiming 20% of the men sleep with 80% of the women, going back to this data that has become a meme.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 05:37 PM
0

I don't base beliefs on Internet anecdotes.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 05:31 PM
3

Many of the traits TRP associates with alphas evolved through the use of force to secure mates.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 05:29 PM
3

Yep TRP often characterizes violence and aggression as alpha traits that women preferentially select for in mates. However we see both in this example and in primates how aggression is used by low status men to secure mates by force.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 03:57 PM
-1

It means 80% of female attraction is directed towards 20% of men. Attraction as measured by what though? Ratings on apps? We don't see 80/20 in any other measures of attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 03:43 PM
4

I see a lot of parallels here between the situation they've set up and what some incls say they want as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 03:40 PM
-4

I haven't seen 80/20 confirmed in any actual mate selection or dating behavior. Only likes on OLD. This is a reference to the same data. You've built an entire ideology around one limited data set that doesn't even measure mate selection.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 03:32 PM
1

I think he was 27 when he wrote the story but not in college.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 03:25 PM
1

I'm not TRP-endorsed but I believe the idea behind publishing the story is to say "Don't be like Michael. Adapt your goals and work on your personality." I think so. PPD has a lot of mgtow/incls who just see the story and relate to Michael however.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 02:56 PM
–

HUH? Who are they inferior to? Anyone more attractive than a 3/10.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 02:48 PM
-3

The average woman is above the average man. This is why only 30% of men have contributed to the human gene pool. Also why we see asymmetry in beauty between male and female across animal species. Sometimes it's the male that's more attractive, sometimes the female.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 02:37 PM
–

These leftover men have no reason to participate or support the current society leading to instability from lack of cooperation and violence. Just put them in jail if they're violent and unproductive tbh.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 02:33 PM
–

It's based on the belief that men who can't get sex will become violent and destabilize society.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 02:32 PM
–

Interesting that you think these men who have highly unattractive faces are "alphas." They look like they would be incel neckbeards in the West. How is this not just a collection of inferior men who set up a social structure that guarantees them access to young women? Basically a common fantasy on incl forums.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 02:27 PM
–

They say women prefer those traits too. That's why TRP/PUA shit recommends men to emulate Dark Triad traits like psychopathy and narcissism. What they don't want to hear is that women prefer prosocial traits over antisocial traits. This is because they have few prosocial traits.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 02:22 PM
–

Dudes that never have sex: "I have a friend who gets laid and he's a total misogynist."
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 02:20 PM
8

"Michael" in this story is a 27 year old virgin he's not pumping anything.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 02:10 PM
10

So this is Exhibit One in how TRP is based mostly on Internet anecdotes.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 01:59 PM
5

Did you come over here from the MGTOW exodus because this has never been a "male space." This is a debate sub dude.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 01:54 PM
8

I don't think he's a "bad" person per se. I think he is extremely developmentally stunted. This is why he didn't pass through the normal life stage of being able to form a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 12:52 PM
29

Yep 100%. As someone who never did the party scene in college it never held me back from dating and sex often. It was as easy as simply talking to the girl next to you in class.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 12:50 PM
9

Did he even try to find religious groups or academic groups that took their studies more seriously and avoided the party life? This was my thought. As someone who was never a part of the college party scene but had frequent relationships and sex nonetheless, there are a ton of options for people who don't go the whole frat dorm route.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 12:43 PM
4

Is it "based" being an incl who stays up at night crying because he hears the women he was attracted to having sex in the next room. How about not having sex for your entire young adult life is that based.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 12:40 PM
5

Well his behavior wasnt ideal but his behavior isn’t what made girls go to the football players. So what was? Per thia story he's fit and attractive. It's his weird hangups about sex and relationships that held him back.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 12:33 PM
12

I'm not sure if "Michael" is even a real person, a lot of the comments on that website seem like they were written by the same person. Nonetheless it does read as an accurate TRP ideology archetype. It's almost too on the nose for me to believe it's a real story. It could be though I'd give it equal odds. Anyway - dude is an awkward loser raised in a conservative Christian home. He's too hung up about sex to form any kind of relationship with his peers. At the same time he is obsessing non-stop …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 12:31 PM
6

As expected a few comments are: "but women are unattractive too." Yet the "male sexlessness" stats shown here often show that women are not struggling with sex or relationships nearly as much.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 11:59 AM
–

It's because women are more prosocial than men. All of the major leadership traits covary with prosociality. Men have historically been in leadership positions due to aggression. Both internal aggression (climbing the dominance hierarchy) and external (fighting wars with outsiders). If you have a society that requires a lot of aggression men do well as leaders. As society becomes more internally peaceful and as wars become less frequent aggression becomes a less important trait for leadership. A…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 11:54 AM
2

It's literally the exact same thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 11:41 AM
3

Men can totally become prostitutes. Take a look at some gay cams or onlyfans, a lot aren't even attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 11:38 AM
0

This is why I try to put everything under Discussion or Debate when I post here.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 12:35 AM
2

Labor analysis is multivariate linear regression. Do you see when he says "and regress it on your salary?" That's linear regression and the salary is the dependent variable. Then he goes on to say "and then we did it for online dating" but doesn't tell you what the dependant variable is. If you're telling me that that income or height predict something about OLD you need to be able to tell me what they predict. You need to be able to quantify that.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/08/21 12:09 AM
2

I mean there must be? Height predicts OLD success - what is OLD success? Is it matches, messages, swipes, real dates, a relationship, marriage, etc.? Because he says 1 inch of height predicts X as well as 40,000 additional income. The question is how closely does the additional inch of height predicts X. For example, hypothetically, it could give you 20% more swipes, but only 10% more actual dates, and then only 1% more hookups. We could say that 1 inch of height is equivalent to $40k and it sou…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 11:45 PM
1

"It's a lot" doesn't tell me anything about dating outcomes nor does just knowing it's the same as some other independent variable like income. What is the dependent variable here that height predicts?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 11:31 PM
3

I mean no one is denying the height/attractiveness relationship. The question is how much more attractive does it make someone and by what measure. In this study we've got a good end measure: number of sexual partners. It shows real mate selection and attainment of that final goal. What does the research referenced in the video use?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 11:08 PM
1

It shows the opposite actually. Most men are not virgins nor sexless.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 10:57 PM
6

The OKCupid data you all base 80/20 on is ten years old from a dating website people don't even use as often any more. Meanwhile the distribution of sexual partner count here is pretty consistent with the CDC's 2019 and 2020 figures.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 10:47 PM
3

The study in the OP shows it isn't obesity, that is controlled for. There is weak evidence in general for plastics being the cause. They could be a partial cause perhaps. Yet we still see the historical decline of testosterone evolutionarily. We also see that indigenous hunter-gatherer groups like the Qom and Hazda have similar levels of testosterone to Western men today, despite not being exposed to the same environmental pollutants, diet or sedentary lifestyle.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 10:35 PM
16

Yep. I have said this many times. A lot of dudes come from the POV that RP would call scarcity. Basically never having options and being ready to take whatever they can get. They cannot relate to men who aren't starved for sex, who would rather wait a day vs have sex with someone gross.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 09:52 PM
11

Look at the error bars for the shortest and tallest men and women. Since the sample is large this may be due to actual variation. Look at the linear regression and the beta coefficients for height. They are almost nothing. Only "Very Short" as a categorical variable got screwed at -.22. There was no difference in any of the tall categories. Mid Healthy BMI had -.22 same as Very Short and Low Healthy BMI was -.33. Upper Healthy BMI -.11. When looking at the actual numbers basically everyone had 7…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 09:07 PM
1

I have had a moment to look. We see even lower testosterone in the Tsimane people of Bolivia as well as the Hazda and Datoga of Tanzania and the Qom of Argentina. I don't know if this is a decline, although it would show that these levels of testosterone do develop naturally and independently from one another. https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rspb.2012.0455 https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s40750-019-00116-1
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 08:45 PM
4

if someone can quote or tldr how i'm wrong i'd be glad to read it. You said a sedentary lifestyle and diet/obesity. The study in the OP controlled for these variables. We see a similar rate of decline in non obese and non sedentary men. We also see low testosterone levels in remote hunter-gatherer populations. They are presumably pretty active. They have little exposure to modern Western diets or pollutants.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 08:37 PM
0

It's not a comparison of 80KYO skulls to today. We see the decline consistently from 80KYO, to 20KYO to 10KYO. Modern human skulls are significantly more delicate than even recent ancestors. Also, I was asked if we see the decline in non-Western populations of hunter-gatherers. It turns out we do. The groups in the studies below in both Africa and South America have lower testosterone than modern Western men. They have little to no exposure to modern pollutants and processed foods. Someone else …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 08:34 PM
3

Yep I think this is consistent with what we see. A tendency to pick normal positive qualities that has a moderating effect over time.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 07:55 PM
0

I don't think it's totally attributable to birth control, just perhaps the large recent drop is in part.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 07:48 PM
23

The research controls for obesity however so it can't be that.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 06:49 PM
3

I'm never going to watch a YouTube vid but I will read papers. I have glanced at two the person I responded to posted. One has a single reference to low testosterone in mice, the other is a study of mostly prepubescent children. This is consistent with what I said: weak evidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 06:38 PM
4

Yep pretty much. We know environmental contaminants can disrupt hormones. We don't really know if or how much it's happening to people.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 06:31 PM
2

The only mention of testosterone in this entire paper is in a single study with a mouse model. That's pretty weak evidence don't you think?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 06:25 PM
1

It's not men living longer. The decline is seen across cohorts. It's not comparing the mean of all men today VA in the past. That's actually addressed in the study in the OP.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 06:04 PM
3

Did T levels drop all across the globe or mainly in the west, or in 1st world countries? And did it decrease across all economic classes? Good question and I don't think we know yet. This was one of my first thoughts too.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 06:02 PM
6

"The reports and a study I looked at." Feel free to post the evidence up if you think it's strong.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 05:59 PM
2

This research controls for diet / activity / obesity.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 05:57 PM
1

This is an article from 1996 which is a good example of weak evidence in itself. I wonder if you've across read it. The plasma estrogen concentrations of male alligators from these two lakes did not differ. However, testes from Lake Apopka alligators produced significantly more estradiol in vitro than testes from control alligators; testosterone production was similar (93) This is the kind of evidence that is weak: observational studies of animals that don't even show an effect of environmental …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 05:33 PM
1

This is addressed in the research above actually. It's not obesity or activity levels.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 05:15 PM
1

The bonobos + the belief we're heading for a matriarchy would be consistent with women selecting low T men imo.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 05:13 PM
3

I am literally a bodybuilder on testosterone my dude. I do attract women. However, the term "gymcel" exists for a reason. I'm also hesitant to conclude anything about normal natural T production based on how we're sitting at T levels way above the natural range.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 05:08 PM
3

I said the research on facial attractiveness is mixed. That's not cherry picking. If you actually believe that women like effeminate low t males then why are you literally a steroid using bodybuilder? I don't think effeminate low T men are the most attractive. I just think the pseudoscientific framing of women always preferring a man with high T isn't supported by the evidence. We see evolutionary trade-offs for things like prosocial behavior that women have consistently preferred. Actually the …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 05:05 PM
-2

I mean "we don't know" is actually the current position on the generational testosterone decline. It's a better position to take than claiming it's 100% environmental.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:48 PM
4

The problem with this explanation is that we see a decline by generational cohort, not just age. Also that we see an historical decline in T as well. This shows a decline in T not based on exposure to the environment by time, but generation by generation.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:47 PM
2

I'm not watching a YouTube video my dude. Post a research paper.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:45 PM
4

Actually no, I have read most of the research on this. This is how I know the environmental/T decline link is weak. It's still considered a very open question. And it's not other people's job to source your spurious claims.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:44 PM
1

How do you know it's not the case?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:36 PM
3

The drop in testosterone is largely due to the increased use of plastics People keep saying this because it's a common pop science explanation. There is very little evidence for it however. We see a decline in T that corresponds to generational cohorts, which shows a genetic influence. We also see the long term evolutionary decline in T that began with the earliest humans.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:36 PM
2

Try to post a real rebuttal with scientific evidence. "You lie" isn't an argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:34 PM
6

If TRP helps you get laid why do you only complain nonstop about how women won't touch your pp?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:30 PM
3

We can't assume it's too short. Darwin observed major single-generational changes and we also have modern examples in primate populations.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:28 PM
-2

Source: Trust Me Bro. Feel free to post evidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:27 PM
0

Wrong actually. There is only weak evidence for an environmental role. We see a generational relationship and a trend that is much older than modern diets.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:26 PM
2

Yep bingo. If women only prefer higher T men for short term pairings during a small window it's not surprising this mate strategy fell by the wayside.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:25 PM
7

Read the articles in the OP, the environmental guesses have mostly been addressed.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:21 PM
2

The research on testosterone and mate choice is mixed. I gave an example in the OP: women don't prefer the most dimorphic faces. Another example is research on menstrual cycles and the dual mating hypothesis I have posted on recently. Women may prefer higher T men for short term pairings during ovulation, lower T men the rest of the time.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:20 PM
5

What makes you think women prefer "the highest T?"
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:16 PM
6

it’s just that modernization has greatly reduced the amount of time men spend doing manual labor This is an historical trend that predates modernization. Also Don’t think for a second that if our society crumbled that all the chicks wouldn’t flock to the dudes that could prolong survival and/or murder people without a second thought when necessary… We see evolutionarily they did not. Testosterone began to decline in human ancestors before civilization.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:13 PM
-5

Poor evidence for this, but it's the typical pop culture guess. The fact its an historical evolutionary trend and that we see generational modern decline shows a genetic origin.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:10 PM
2

I don't think this explains it since the decline in T is not just a modern trend. That it's specifically an inter-generational tend by age cohort also would indicate it has at least a partially genetic origin.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:09 PM
11

Even one generation is enough for massive shifts in the next generation. This is something Darwin observed and also that we've observed directly in recent studies of primates. Here is an example: https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.0020106 This baboon troop went from extremely aggressive to peaceful in subsequent generations. All it took was a few of the aggressive males eating some poisoned trash and dying.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 04:06 PM
1

Very few people here deny that looks and income influence mate choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 01:37 PM
4

No he still would. These are maladaptive personality traits people are born with.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 01:36 PM
4

Fortunately it kind of does, as evidenced by the fact most people are none of those things.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 01:34 PM
6

Desire to procreate + desire to keep other men from procreation I would guess has something to do with it. Men want to make the babies but they're mad other men get to make the babies.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 12:46 PM
1

We know from population genetic studies it's fewer than 3% of children fathered by an extra-pair coupling. Women are also more likely to disclose cheating than men. Fact is it's not what women "had" to do, it's what they chose to do. Human beings could be like gorillas or lions, but we are not. We could have evolved where "alphas" are truly a preferred supermajority and father most of the children, but we didnt. We evolved to select for every "beta" trait that exists in the human gene pool.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 12:00 PM
3

"Nice Guys" are either weak or weird, usually a mixture of both. "Nice" never actually describes prosocial traits, which women do find attractive and which have been a cornerstone in human evolution. As you can see on subs like r/NiceGuys, a lot of them are in fact quite antisocial. They try to behave "nice" for brief moments before they go into rage fits and temper tantrums. If women can pick up on energy or a vibe, it's that: they can tell someone is an antisocial creep pretending to be a norm…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 11:26 AM
3

To be the AF you have to be top level in genetic quality the AF gets a shortcut to what men want, the sex, because their genes are perceived to be higher quality and more scarce on the market The fact that most women choose stable "betas" in relationships shows how pseudoscientific this is. All traits are genetic. Women have consistently selected "beta" traits preferentially to "alpha" traits long enough for the "beta" traits to become more frequent in the human gene pool.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 11:15 AM
6

Look around at men with kids: very few are "Chads." Women regularly pick mates well below the top 1% of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 11:01 AM
5

that's why we have 20% of men fucking 80% of women Zero evidence of this actually.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 10:59 AM
4

But this isn’t the wild and we aren’t animals. Chad doesn’t literally whip out a bat and drive every other man out of the club. You can’t monopolize mates by sheer violence, which is the only way an animal is able to get all of them. Probably why humans are only moderately dimorphic and most human mating strategies are not directly aggressive. Even back when we were basically wild animals we must have already moved away from aggression as a major mating strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/08/21 10:58 AM
1

But if you are a woman, this sounds merely like a loser whining and making excuses for why he can't get laid. Sounds like that to me as a man. The men who whine about it usually are losers struggling to get laid.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 10:23 PM
3

Interesting from the first one: Given that physically attractive individuals are seen as desirable mates, further evidence that bullying may be a tool used to icrease sexual opportunities would come from the data showing that attractive individuals are more likely to be targeted by bullies. In fact, adolescents of both sexes who rated themselves as highly attractive were not only more likely to be victims of sexual bullying, but also to have been perpetrators, observers, or friends with perpetra…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 09:34 PM
7

The most important criteria.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 06:44 PM
3

This is how Rollo Tomassi described frame: A frame is this unspoken acceptance of one person’s authority, and the other person is going to follow along with that. When you have a boss, when you’re at work, you’re in your boss’s frame. You’re doing what he says and you’re producing whatever it is he wants you to produce. You’re a utility to that guy, and you have to be useful to that guy because you are in his frame. When you were a kid, you were in your parents’ frame, because you were dependent…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 05:47 PM
2

Based on actual mate selection - who people choose to date: The agreed-upon mate values for both men and women derive almost exclusively from physically observable attributes like attractiveness, BMI, height, and age and are not substantially related to harder-to-observe attributes such as education, religion, sociosexuality, having children, or desiring future children, and (3) small positive assortative trends arise in the areas of race and height. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 05:19 PM
4

Physical attractiveness is >50% of the variance in mate selection so no they don't.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 04:40 PM
1

One good reason is for attractive kids. Halo effect and all of the social advantages that come with attractiveness.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 03:51 PM
13

I think I'd worry less if she dated women. Facts
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 03:48 PM
10

Source: The Internet.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 02:47 PM
18

"Frame" since what RP men think of as "frame" is often antisocial behavior and manipulation. TRP literally coaches men to emulate subclinical personality disorders. Why should women prefer that. (Spoiler most don't.) Meanwhile looks actually signal genetic fitness. Women should prefer looks at least as much as they do.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 02:46 PM
1

In the current era, there's an epidemic of single mothers with (often multiple) deadbeat "alpha male" baby-daddies out there. This is addressed in the OP. Fewer than 15%. Most single parents had the child while in a relationship. biologically attractive men because they want that guy's DNA "Beta" traits are just as biological and women select betas more. The traits associated with "betas," such as stability and prosocial behavior, are more common in the human gene pool because they are the prefe…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 02:42 PM
0

As long as they enjoy it I suppose.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 12:58 PM
11

If you can't give a woman an orgasm just break up with them. It could be you, it could be them, could be both of you just not jiving well together. If a woman is starfishing it's because she doesn't enjoy the sex. How enjoyable is that for you really? Wouldn't you be happier finding a partner who enjoys it? If they're all starfishing it's probably you though. I tried to date a woman who told me she could only orgasm in one weird position. I stopped seeing her. Is that really the kind of sexual r…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 11:23 AM
1

Weird how Red Pill says "watch what women do" and yet here you're telling me what women do is not really what they want. It would be quite the uphill battle to show from an evolutionary perspective that the dominant or majority traits women select for is not what they really want
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 11:03 AM
17

The "blue pill" is generally characterized as the worldview where people believe that sexual opportunity awaits those with prosocial behavior. Prosocial behavior is genetic. The 50-0-50 axiom in behavioral genetics: just go ahead and assume right out of the gate that at least 50% of the variance in all behavior is genetic. There hasn't been a real nature vs nurture debate in science since the mid 90's. What are called "person+environment interactions" are the paradigm of behavior and personality…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 10:09 AM
10

This is why I don't even keep female friends any more. It has turned out way too often they want more. It's just needless drama if you are in a relationship. Anyone who has "orbiters" isn't being fair to the orbiters or to their partner. That said I think women handle jealousy better and maybe like it a small amount. Like it signals they have an attractive guy.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 09:50 AM
1

On an biologically-driven instinctual level, women don't want to mate with the Beta And yet they consistently mate with "betas." They mate with "betas" enough that "beta" traits - not "alpha" - are more frequent in the human gene pool. You understand that is biologically driven correct? That is now evolution works. The preferred and "best" traits increase in frequency because they're the ones most selected for.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 09:45 AM
–

Is this another Wall revenge fantasy. "Oh no, the top 1% of men don't want an older single woman." The top 1% of men aren't struggling to find a date at all my dude and most are probably married or in relationships. An attractive "post-Wall" woman also isn't struggling to get dates.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 09:39 AM
2

It's scientific: Recent findings, however, suggest that the view of a complete universal consensus is oversimplified (Hönekopp, 2006; Martinez et al., 2020; Xie et al., 2018). Preferences for attractive faces vary across cultures (Apicella et al., 2007; Scott et al., 2014; Zhang et al., 2019) and depend on various characteristics such as the rater’s self- and other-rated attractiveness, genetic propensity, and sexual orientation (Holzleitner & Perrett, 2017; Little et al., 2001; Penton-Voak et a…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/08/21 09:31 AM
6

One question to ask is how frequent cosmetic/genetic modification could be during a lifetime. If we're looking at genetic or cosmetic modifications that are very static, such as choosing permanent features for yourself or a child, we might see a lot of convergence in the way people look. Basically, a trend toward conservative conventional attractiveness. If you can easily do multiple major modifications at will, I would expect to see a lot more variation and experimentation. Physical attractiven…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 11:55 PM
–

What can be more beta than touching a plate. Even more beta if it's wet and soapy. Alphas don't so that. True alphas use disposable plates and plastic forks.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 11:13 PM
2

I’m more of the belief that the historically successful males (in terms of genetic footprint) would have both the AF characteristics whilst securing resources for provisioning (BB) to be able to maintain offspring with one or multiple mates. Yep agreed. Like physical fitness and being able to provide resources goes hand in hand.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 10:27 PM
1

cool story bro but the RP position at the moment is just a baseless "women lie." Science generates evidence based on testable hypotheses. Let me know when your findings about women's N counts are published in the Red Pill Journal Of Things That Aren't Totally Made Up.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 09:16 PM
5

Let me know when RP comes up with an empirical average N count that isn't made up. I'm going to go by the science and national statistics in the meantime.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 08:46 PM
9

The daily "it's not fair women won't touch my pp" post.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 08:44 PM
2

This is interesting and seems like it would be contrary to AF/BB for a different reason if a majority of couples have an extra-partner child and half have an extra partner child in the family. I looked up the Himba and it said they were also polygamous with men having two wives on average. It's a good example of how different mating strategies can be though.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 08:35 PM
4

More or less. See this post I made OP that covers most of the relevant research directly asking if men and women lie about partner count. They do, but not by much, 1-2 people. Let me ask you a question OP - why do you think 50 to 30 is plausible? You're talking about something quantifiable and empirical. You can't guess and intuit your statistics. This is basically just inventing numbers out of thin air.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 08:17 PM
1

Big article on this topic at the International Society of Genetic Genealogy: King and Jobling (2009) demonstrated that, historically, false paternity rates probably lie between 1% and 4.5%, and adopted 2% for their simulation modelling.[22] Larmuseau et al claimed that the rates of 1-2% they found in Flanders over the last four centuries were unlikely to differ over time or by locality.[23] Greeff and Erasmus (2015) studied 1273 conceptions in 23 Afrikaner families in South Africa over 200 years…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 08:09 PM
2

Yep 100% OP. RP has contributed nothing to self improvement we didn't already know. All that makes RP unique is misogynistic ideology. It's no accident the manosphere also flocks to people like Jordan "clean your room" Peterson. Someone didn't give these guys conventional advice like "wash your pp," or they ignored it.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 07:16 PM
0

study of a few western European countries that only covers a limited timed in history. One specifically where the dating economy was heavily regulated by patriarchal interests. If you were to do a similar study on the cuckoldry rates on countries like Saudi Arabia you'd likely find low rates of cuckoldry as well. Neither study tells us what it was like 100,000 years ago on the plains of the sub sahara. This study included the Dogon, an indigenous group of Mali that only records parentage via ora…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 07:05 PM
0

It'ss 1-3%. This is addressed in the OP actually. Higher estimates came from non-representative samples of men who sought out paternity tests. 1-3% is also the number we see in our genetic code of historical ancestry. This shows that cuckolding is rare and has consistently been rare.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 06:56 PM
1

I did answer it. It's literally in the OP. Most single mothers had their kids in a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 06:53 PM
2

those who procreate are at least half of them single mothers, never married nor having a household with the father So you believe half of all fathers are AF?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 06:35 PM
0

Roughly 20-25 percent of the male population when you account for genetics only Half of all children have a divorced parent, so if it's 20-25% then we can't use single parenting as a metric for AF. Single parenting can't distinguish AF from BB in this case. BB usually a man that doesn't hit the genetic markers that women want All of the beta traits you listed (income, fidelity, etc.) are genetic. They all have high heritability of >50%. If women didn't pick these men and have babies with them th…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 06:31 PM
2

You believe all single fathers are AFs? This seems like a case of Schrodinger's Alpha: RP regularly describes these men as betas. women hook up with attractive men for casual sex and then get with a average partner for a relationship They're giving the babies to the betas they're in relationships with. This is what the genetics show. RP claims AF/BB is evolutionary, but this is strong evidence against that.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 06:11 PM
1

AF/BB fits this as an evolutionary strategy. Even though women don't necessarily want to get pregnant, they are still taking their sexual cues from activity that would get them pregnant if they weren't using contraceptives. Except we see this is not the case from the genetic science. I don't really care whether "studies" and "research" support this or not. Right. These are the comments that show how TRP is pure ideology and not at all based in science.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 06:05 PM
-1

The AF/BB relies on single motherhood for evidence People here describe single mothers as having divorced their beta husbands. So are these Schrodinger's alphas - all these single fathers are alphas? Whenever a man is ask to provide for not his offspring he is beta bucked So a majority of men are alphas and a minority are betas. Most men are not in relationships with single mothers.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 05:55 PM
0

What percentage of men do you think are alphas? If we start to include all men who had a child via first marriage the number gets really large. This is also a problem I see with the entire alpha/beta discourse. Men are cherry picked to be "alphas" or "betas" as suits the argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 05:50 PM
-2

I mean in RP terms they divorced the betas? Women initiate most of these divorces, usually RP uses that as evidence that they were undesirable betas.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 05:31 PM
0

Yep I mean even 1-3% is meaningful in an evolutionary sense, even if it's a small strategy we see that cuckolding played some role. It's just not large enough to build a dating ideology around.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 05:27 PM
1

Paternity fraud,remarriage, second baby daddy baby makes AF/BB a thing it a occurs roughly 30 to 45% of the population. Paternity fraud is about 1-3%, similar to the genetic heritage studies on cuckolding I've posted here. Things like divorce and remarriage can't inherently show an AF/BB strategy. As soon as people start calling married men in relationships AF then AF loses all meaning imo.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 05:23 PM
2

If men and women have the same frequency of infidelity that could indicate men and women follow the same mating strategy. That also seems to undermine the idea.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 05:06 PM
0

It's hard to tease apart the influence of culture here, but this will also shape evolution. If it was culturally suppressed then it might or might not reduce the frequency. It could still be there as a latent thing like you say.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 05:01 PM
0

So women might still be cheating on their beta bucks with alpha fucks, but just not get pregnant. For this to be an evolved behavior or preference they need to be getting pregnant. That's the only way natural selection for the strategy itself (extra pair cuckolding) can exist. If women evolved a strategy where they find a provider male, but sleep with a man who has physical characteristics for "good genes," in order to get the benefits of the provider but the genes of the other male, she needs t…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 04:47 PM
4

I feel that men’s fears of being cucked is evolutionary I agree, it's definitely the kind of thing that would directly impact evolutionary fitness. Probably explains how we evolved to serial monogamy and why cuckolding is so uncommon.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 04:39 PM
5

They don't need to. This is based on human genetics and births. It's based on "watch what women do." We can see what strategy women pick, both modern and historical in the human genome.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 04:29 PM
1

women are herd animals The science understander.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 04:28 PM
3

Sounds like the terms "alpha" and "beta" are reversed in TRP ideology. Evolutionarily the dominant male here and the one who gets to pass on his genes is the BB in the relationship. The so-called "alpha" is using a less viable reproductive strategy and will have lower evolutionary fitness.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 04:20 PM
1

Contraception means women can fuck these alpha dudes when they're not looking for kids, then when the time comes they go for the betas Contraception hasn't changed anything actually as the links in my post explain. We know from human genetic mapping that the historical frequency of extra-pair cuckolding was around 1%, similar to what we see in modern populations. This would undermine AF/BB regardless of course. It's clearly not an evolved mating strategy if women don't prefer to have the "alphas…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 04:11 PM
0

there hasn't been anywhere enough time for humans to genetically adapt. Incorrect. We already know from population genetics that extra-pair cuckolding has historically been extremely rare. It's a debunked theory. We don't see less of it today due to birth control: we see a degree similar to what existed for past human populations. https://m.slashdot.org/story/309833
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 04:07 PM
4

The advent of reliable birth control means that women can wait until they find that man and have fun with men who are much more alpha than beta while waiting. Thus, AF/BB is not as prevalent as it used to be. We see that the prevalence has remained the same from genetic studies however. Even before birth control we see an extremely consistent contribution of mate selection across the human genome: In a 2013 study, Dr. Maarten H.D. Larmuseau used Belgium's detailed birth records to reconstruct la…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 04:04 PM
0

Nope you're objectively wrong. Even by believing that AF/BB is an evolutionary strategy at all you are conceding that BB is selected for. Every single "beta" trait that exists is a product of natural selection. The fact that these are dominant in human beings is because they provided more genetic fitness than alternative traits.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 03:59 PM
0

You should understand that it is hardwired into women's brains to seek better DNA. "Better DNA" in an evolutionary sense is that which maximizes genetic fitness, or the survival of viable offspring. That's basically a ton of "beta" traits, such as cooperation, prosocial behavior, a tendency to form mid to long term pair bonds, serial monogamy, and willingness to provide resources.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 03:54 PM
4

So are you saying the scientific study of like 57 in total men applies to every man? Cause oxytocin didn't do anything about keeping distance for single men not in relationships. Sample size is way too small too. Hello and welcome to my sample size copypasta. You're receiving this because you said a sample size is too small. The central limit theorem is the fundamental principle of statistics that lets you generalize from seemingly small samples to entire populations. How small? A sample size of…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 03:25 PM
3

Most people choose some kind of monogamy, even across time and cultures. I am someone who points out serial monogamy is "natural" often but I don't think this is prescriptive. It's just a description of how most people can form relationships. If you're able to form a lifelong loving relationship that would be pretty ideal. Telling people: "You will form a few long term relationships, be happy for a while and then break up" doesn't sound very appealing from the get-go. That's just the way it turn…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 03:24 PM
2

Here is an anecdote: Jean-Paul Sartre. Very creepy looking dude. Actually managed to get Simone de Beauvoir to be obsessed with him and have numerous affairs in an open relationship. He was apparently very intelligent, popular and charismatic, even when he never made much money. He was also very short.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 12:16 PM
1

Yep probably the case that some people will always have it easier and some will have it harder in dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 12:15 PM
1

Yep I understand. More to your original scenario: I actually think we'd see dating patterns remain very similar. People would have more free time to date. Status indicators would just replace income. Leaders of groups or people proficient in their skills and hobbies.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 11:36 AM
2

Sounds pretty lit. You've described a very advanced society, have you considered that gene editing and cosmetic surgery could also raise the number of attractive people? There is a novel series called Culture that is very similar to what you describe. People just change the way they look. The continued exponential growth of the population also means a much larger dating pool. Without economic barriers you could potentially have access to the entire global dating pool. Hyperintelligent AI could r…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 11:02 AM
1

In part it's because we can't assume a normal distribution. We assume normal distributions in statistics because the central limit theorem lets us assume them about non-normal distributions. There can be skewness in the actual populations that gives us medians higher or lower than averages. So when selecting an individual from a population we're not guaranteed anything. We never know the true probability of individual selection from the mean. It's also because a correlation is a comparison of gr…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/08/21 05:55 AM
2

I mean conventional "blue pill" dating advice acknowledges that dating is a jungle and it's hard to find a partner. Most people aren't getting romance on demand. 3 months might be a normal time to be single for an average dude but I don't think 3 years is. If you're struggling to find anyone who will date you for 3 years you're probably below average on a few metrics. I don't think men who are well below average have it easy.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 11:52 PM
-3

FDS is ideologically similar but fortunately they don't produce actual terrorists and mass shooters.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 11:27 PM
3

unattractive heterosexual male consistently and reliably attract women into sexual relationships I feel like at best what people here tell you is that if you're truly average you have an average chance at a relationship. No one is telling you that unattractive dudes can consistently get sexual relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 11:14 PM
3

lol this is true, it's a conservative think tank, although the marriage-happiness link has been pretty consistent iirc
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 08:56 PM
2

Yep there is enough individual variation that someone can be within the normal range and still be suffering. Actually normalisation of TRT is probably something good the manosphere has done.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 08:55 PM
12

Single women are happier than married women, etc. I think this may be because the article says "single and childless." Happiness measures plummet when people have kids, but married and cohabiting people score higher across all sorts of different life satisfaction measures. It's basically the childlessness explaining it. Just as an example: Again, here the answer appears to be yes. Married people appear to be healthier and live longer than those who are single, separated, divorced, or widowed. Th…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 08:53 PM
2

The fact this pulls up national news articles from years ago tells us how common it is.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 08:48 PM
3

Definitely some disconnect between "I work really hard and stay disciplined to be fit" and "it's easy not to be fat" too.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 08:44 PM
1

But bad take on the TRT. It is last resort especially for younger men. Young men right now though be like: I am 18 and my T is 450ng/dl, should I get on TRT for life. Nonetheless as someone on gear I do appreciate the normalisation of testosterone.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 08:37 PM
4

The manosphere invented an entire meme subculture based on the belief soy would fuck you up. Even an entire supplement industry of fake products.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 08:34 PM
1

TRP's version of dual mating hypothesis Internet ideologies don't get hypotheses. You have to do actual science for that.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 07:17 PM
0

No, not at all. TRP loves to cite a research psychologist names David Buss, you can search here for it and see TRP men citing him. This is the dual mating hypothesis and fertility is a part. They are about obtaining the best genetics, for offspring, and the best means, for provision for those offspring. Tell me you don't understand evolution without telling me you don't understand evolution. Fertility and estrous are integral the selection for the best genetics. This is why the dual mate hypothe…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 06:06 PM
4

This is an article from Aug 10, so you either hunted this down or it was recommended to you recently on a feed. If the latter, it shows this is the kind of content Google or whoever thinks you regularly consume: drama outrage fuel. I guarantee it's more personal to you than it is to me. I don't get recommended articles about cuckolding by Google.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 05:56 PM
1

TRP references research on the dual mating hypothesis often, which is exactly this. This is what the dual mating hypothesis is - always has been. The fact that TRP has cherry picked what it means so much that it has filtered down to you as being something entirely different should be a wake-up call tbh. You've got a watered down pseudoscientific version of it. It is not "distinct," you just learned it wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 05:53 PM
5

About the same as the amoral ideological justifications men make for infidelity, such as TRP men claiming it's an evolutionary prerogative. People will bend over backwards to excuse their bad behavior. This post is a good example of what I have said here many times however: TRP is an ideology formed and driven by Internet anecdotes. You found an anonymous story in a pulp rag that probably isn't even real, but you'll squeeze into the ideology. It will serve as outrage fuel for men already struggl…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 05:39 PM
0

r/confidentlyincorrect but that's what happens when you learn everything through the filter of TRP subs The dual mating strategy hypothesis proposes that women’s preferences for uncommitted sexual relationships with men displaying putative fitness cues (e.g., masculinized faces) increase during the high-fertility phase of the menstrual cycle. https://www.cell.com/trends/cognitive-sciences/pdf/S1364-6613(18)30256-0.pdf
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 05:33 PM
1

Here it is I thought I had it up there: https://www.utupub.fi/bitstream/handle/10024/150453/Soini_Eetu_opinnaytetyo.pdf?sequence=1 The masculine/feminine face research is kind of mixed. Some masculine and some feminine features are universally preferable, like jawline or neonate eyes. So the most attractive faces aren't the most masculine or feminine, but end up having a mix of traits. When male faces get really dimorphic at the high end they do tend to look ugly. In male models you see the mix …
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 05:13 PM
6

TRP - "Women want to sleep with attractive men and I am very angry about it."
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 04:21 PM
2

THIS is what TRP teaches. That men's lived experiences are valid TRP is mostly a community of men who struggle with dating. You don't experience being an "alpha" nor do you experience what women experience. Nonetheless you've got an ideology that claims to be able to explain these things. It's pretty clear a good chunk or it is invention, not experience.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 04:10 PM
2

This does not say "she was never attracted to him" and it's a stretch to try and interpret it that way.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 03:59 PM
2

You guys say this, but you don't actually watch the behavior. You form most of your ideology online with anecdotes. Meanwhile, science empirically studies the behavior in large groups.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 03:18 PM
2

Single mothers are usually divorced and/or had the child in the context of an LTR. They're not women who had a short term pairing with Chad. This is a good topic though and I'll find the specific numbers on it to make a post.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 03:13 PM
0

Why is it that half of college aged men aren't getting laid, that must include a fair proportion of people in the average? It's probably a lot of people to the left of the curve. A 4/10 and a 6/10 are both average on a normal distribution but there's likely a world of difference in their relationship outcomes.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 02:07 PM
2

Women are mostly having kids with the "betas" they are in LTRs with. We see what kinds of men women choose to reproduce with. "She was never really that attracted to him" is unfalsifiable. You can ask women or you can look at what they do (who they mate with), but neither is going to support the belief that women aren't attracted to their LTRs.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 02:05 PM
1

women were much more dependant on their reputation for their survival, which made promiscuity a terrible strategy both for herself and her offspring One thing TRPers never discuss is the frequency of AF/BB or the dual mating hypothesis. Only about 3% of children are born to extra-pair couplings. The "AF" part is extremely rare. "BB" or long term pairings meanwhile is the preferred and first relationship choice. Most female pregnancies occur in the long term relationship situation and always have…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 01:56 PM
19

Yep it's turning out that way. I believed the dual mating hypothesis in the past and now I'm starting to reconsider it in light of better explanations. If you went back into my comments from a year ago I would have basically said: yep it's real. Such is science. Gotta update the beliefs as the evidence changes.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 01:33 PM
10

People cite "studies" all the time to try and justify it. But if it's not even remotely based on empirical research that's a great reason to dismiss it as weirdo Internet ideology too. We can just consign it to the trashcan of dumb subjective opinions if that's the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 01:29 PM
3

This comes down to ugly and average men who want to be rock stars basically. A 5/10 mad that he isn't being treated like a 10/10. It's understandable - life isn't fair. But it is what it is. Also, assortative mating. Most people in relationships are similar in looks. So we're really not describing "settling." It's just insecure men mentally obsessing about how they are not the top 5% of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 01:27 PM
6

Definitely OP. This is exactly the kind of ultra high risk third variable that gets overlooked when people talk about how the Dark Triad predicts promiscuity, or when they anecdotally say women will fuck a handsome criminal Chad. It's very rare to find highly promiscuous people who don't smoke, drink or use drugs.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 01:22 PM
1

A man wants to marry a woman with little sexual experience but fucks his way through half the town or would if he could. Western traditionalism is monogamy for men and women, sex within the confines of marriage. Promiscuity is social deviancy in this context and associated with "loose women" or "libertines" in the male case.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 12:50 PM
13

I doubt it, most people report satisfaction with their relationships. Importantly, relationship success and happiness is also not randomly distributed. People with miserable relationships are responsible for those relationships in a lot of ways - they do not need to be miserable. A lot of this comes down to your own behavior and good/bad decision making in relationships. For example, having a child (and especially having a child young) predicts large drops in relationship satisfaction.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 12:01 PM
20

~50% of men are in a relationship. Unsuccessful men (eg TRP men, MGTOW, incls, etc.) try to explain this away as undesirable relationships, "betas," and so on. There is cognitive dissonance from thinking you're average yet not being able to get the results of an average man.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 11:44 AM
15

He can expect 2.5 kids. The half infant.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 11:32 AM
1

Yep. Kinda like how men express a preference for women who earn less money than they do. It's really important for a lot of men to be more dominant or on top in some way.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 11:11 AM
6

As a fairly attractive man who does get approached by women I can give you my opinion: it does not work on me. I have never been impressed by an unattractive woman approaching me. It has never raised her attractiveness or anything like that. I think it probably does work somewhat nonetheless, and I'll tell you why: unattractive women who have approached me always seemed pretty confident, like they had done it a lot in the past. This makes me think it probably has worked in the past, or will work…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 11:10 AM
2

Pretty good post. Perhaps a bit extreme. All the CMV comments are a great example of why so many PPD men are essentially losers who can't get laid. They are super resistant to doing anything productive that would put them in contact with attractive women and improve themselves as well. So many comments like "that's hard work bro I just want to game." I think a lot of these men must be the BlackPill/incel/mgtow crowd that hangs out here, since TRP does say to improve yourself - one of the few cor…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 11:01 AM
6

Pick Peeshas
/r/PurplePillDebate12/08/21 12:29 AM
3

I have gone through and looked: For Strugo and Muse, gender had no effect for any of the variables. Macapagal is a study of men only. In Timmermans, gender was not related to committed relationships or one night stands. Women had a 25% greater chance of meeting men. Men were twice as likely to have a casual sexual relationship. Sumter found no difference in genders of people who formed relationships from apps. "Vastly different experiences online" tells us zero about what happens when people act…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 07:06 PM
3

Dirty skrote here. I'd recommend not bringing friends to your first date.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 05:52 PM
5

Yep same. I think this is ideal and typical of the most healthy relationships. No hiding, but also no snooping.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 05:34 PM
4

75% of children are raised in 2 parent households. If you believe "most" women are not raising the children of average men and you believe "most" single moms had Chad's love child, you believe ~50% of fathers are Chads or alphas. And yet you can walk to any child's sport event and see that most of the fathers are fat losers. In fact this wouldn't even be consistent with RP, which says "most" married men in relationships with kids are actually average betas. This is also a huge goalpost shift fro…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 05:29 PM
6

No you're not. You're just inventing from a highly ideological POV. It's an empirical fact that most women are not having the babies of random Chads they met and hooked up with once. Women are having the babies of average dudes they're in relationships with. If you were "looking around at what women are doing" you'd have said women prefer #2, since that's what most women are doing.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 05:03 PM
36

I'm bringing this question up because I noticed a post on a women's dating subreddit where the users and moderators are actively advocating snooping on their male partners' phones without their consent. Another unhinged post from paranoid FDS women who are not psychologically ready to be in relationships. They unironically need therapy. Going into a relationship and immediately violating the foundation of trust with dishonest behavior is a red flag. On the flip side: If you want to look at your …
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 04:54 PM
6

Most women are not getting pregnant with Chad's baby and raising it alone. The BEST scenario is the best of both worlds - have sex with hot alpha and give birth to Alpha's love child; then cuck a beta, make him think Alpha's lovechild is Beta's, and marry Beta for his resources. This is basically the dual mating hypothesis. Keep in mind <3% of children turn out to have a different father. In practice the dual mating strategy is rare.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 04:47 PM
3

The dual mating strategy that RP men misrepresent is thus: women select a monogamous partner to mate with - this means attraction and having babies too - but engage in extra-partner promiscuity to increase fitness. The "beta" is always the preferred and first choice for mate selection per the dual mating hypothesis. Getting pregnant alone and raising a baby from a short term partner is not a part of it. You can look around at real relationships and genetic heritage to see what women prefer. Most…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 04:37 PM
5

"Hypothetically, if you were to marry Ben Shapiro..."
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 04:32 PM
3

Lol 🤣
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 04:28 PM
3

Well think about it this way: 1/2 of everyone is in a relationship. If only 1/4 of people get a relationship from apps then it's performing worse than the total cause of relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 04:26 PM
7

Yes sounds right. People on PPD say it's 20/80 on apps, but the actual outcomes look more like 50/50. For average dudes and up there is a good chance, but for below average it's going to be an uphill battle for dating apps that are based so heavily on photos.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 03:05 PM
1

"I have a buddy who works for an online dating platform" is more worthless. Whatever messages people send on apps is also always going to be weaker evidence than actual dating outcomes.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 03:00 PM
3

Have you seen Sternberg's triangular theory of love? It's kind of a similar dimensional model except specific to love. https://slidetodoc.com/presentation_image_h/1f6087552399369eb378c5b7f9227e4f/image-8.jpg
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 02:47 PM
10

18%-50%? Nice spread. I bet that's due to where the sample groups are from since the numbers are from different papers, but I haven't had a chance to look and see. But yeah for at least half of everyone dating apps just may not be the way to go. It kind of makes sense given the golden rule of apps - be attractive - and at least half of all men not being attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 02:10 PM
49

I mostly see women talk about being afraid of pump and dumps. I have said on this sub before that "pump and dump" is essentially not a real thing, that men who enjoyed the sex don't ghost. It's just not how men think. We don't burn bridges with women who are willing to have casual sex unless there is a good reason. Most of the opposing POVs to this were women. FDS is also a niche example of a female dating subculture obsessed with fear of a pump and dump. I do agree that RP men have turned it in…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 01:30 PM
0

I think you made this post because of how RP misrepresents pre-selection OP. Pre-selection largely refers to selecting for men in relationships. The bulk of research on pre-selection is men who are married. Being in a relationship is a cue of stability and monogamy. Women don't need to pre-select for the short term mate in the short term mating strategy, because the traits selected for in short term mating are largely physical and visible. Pre-selection on the other hand gives you cues to invisi…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 11:43 AM
1

You're not going to be able to generalize from celebrities to regular people.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 11:39 AM
2

Man here - I kinda doubt it OP. Facial attractiveness is still king and people usually end up with others of similar attractiveness. Anecdotally, when I see really tall men in couples they're still about as attractive as their partner
/r/PurplePillDebate11/08/21 11:36 AM
4

FDS is basically reactionary ideology, so yes.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 10:12 PM
2

If I put in these numbers between age 19-65 any marital status at least 5' 10" tall any weight earning at least $95,000 per year It gives me 6%. However this should be closer to 50% for NYC. 25% minimum assuming no covariance with height and income or any variables. If I add in "not obese" it goes down from 6% to 3.9%, but for NYC it would lower it to 37.5% to 18.75%. Just as an example of how differently someplace like NYC would compare with US averages.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 07:21 PM
1

Hypergamy is real: women seek higher income partners. As usual, TRP/MGTOW/etc extend this beyond what hypergamy actually means. Any preference for a good partner is now "hypergamy." (We don't see hypergamy in selection for physical attractiveness, for example, and we're beginning to see hypogamy in education.) They mix up what hypergamy means mostly. They'll describe a fling with a low income "Chad" as hypergamous but not long term mate selection with a high income "beta." (This more closely des…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 06:26 PM
1

Not even to run into, you don't have an equal probability of running into every single man in the USA.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 04:50 PM
28

This calculator is not "facts." It's statistical illiteracy. Dating choices are not random selections from the general population.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 04:47 PM
16

Outliers are individual data points in a sample. This is unrelated to outliers. This is the fact that the entire general population is not the same as any given individual's dating pool. It has nothing to do with individual preferences, but the fact that the frequency of the people you're exposed to is not the same as the frequency of their appearance in the general population. If you're a personal trainer at a gym you're exposed to fewer obese people, or more fit people, than average. If you're…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 04:43 PM
2

Yep true. "Most" is probably an overstatement, there is a lot going on.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 03:29 PM
80

This has been posted before. Keep in mind mate selection and mate availability are nonrandom. This calculator cannot give you the actual probably of a man with x criteria being within your own reach. For example, a man that fit x criteria might only represent 1% of all American men. But it could be 50% of men in your social circle, 20% of men in your university, or whatever.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 03:25 PM
3

It probably is. A lot of attitudes and personality facets have large heritable components. Social dominance orientation, Dark Triad traits, authoritarianism, all hover >50%, belief in conspiracy theories is like 30-40% iirc. Conservative/liberal social and political attitudes have large heritability. I'm sure a lot of the things that make RP appealing to some men can be explained by heritability.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 03:22 PM
4

Framing the question as "a partner you are not physically attracted to" almost makes the porn/escorts better by definition. Singleness would be better. What about a single mom that isn't overweight and who you are attracted to? Well, you'd have a relationship, you'd have more frequent sex and it would probably cost less too.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 03:06 PM
4

More than 50% of men are in relationships. 30% of young men haven't had sex in the last year. Do you think the men who aren't able to date or have sex are more likely or less likely to fall to the left of the curve?
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 03:02 PM
6

Yeah ugly people aiming up is probably a thing. It makes sense: being ugly doesn't mean you're going to find other ugly people attractive. Although it looks like this study did find a small effect where ugly people were less able to distinguish between low and high attractiveness. Part of this is also because men rate women as more attractive than women rate men. There is a lot of beauty asymmetry in the animal kingdom. Animals that are dimorphic usually have one gender that is more attractive t…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 02:22 PM
1

Self esteem would have to covary with actual attractiveness in this case, since objective attractiveness predicts trends in subjective ratings. Basically low attractiveness people having higher self esteem and high attractiveness people having lower (relative) self esteem. We see more attractive people rating themselves lower than their objective ratings here.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 02:14 PM
12

Yep 100%. I have posted similar research on this in the past. I think it explains pretty much everything about so-called "average" men in the manosphere struggling with dating. Most likely they are to the left of the curve of averageness. In fact, the correlation between the participant’s objective attractiveness and the difference between the subjective and objective attractiveness ratings was significantly negative, r(191) = −0.80, p < 0.001. Large correlation. Notable that it's ugly people ov…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 01:32 PM
5

You sound hysterical my dude. The defense is the same as any other criminal accusation. Anyone can accuse you of a crime you didn't commit, any crime, because that's the way the legal system works. If you live in fear of strangers accusing you of rape then you need to see a therapist.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 01:02 PM
6

The recording may be used against the defendant to show how intoxicated the woman was, or that there was an element of control or coercion in the exchange. Reminds me of what cops call an "alibi letter," when a criminal tries to establish some proof of alibi before committing a crime - and then the alibi letter becomes evidence of intent to the crime. Fact is that most sexual assault claims don't end up in criminal convictions. (In the UK, 37% of rape reports to police are prosecuted, 18% of pro…
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 12:30 PM
0

Yep all true, good post.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 12:23 PM
5

I don't think it's genetics so much as it is people learning from their parents on how to compromise. This is the "shared environment" part of the 50-0-50 rule, the part that turns out to be close to 0. Parenting actually ends up explaining very little of the future behavior of kids. The first link is actually about this.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 12:22 PM
1

I think it might work on specific women tbh. I think you'd repel any women who were not open to cheating behaviors, since they just saw you with another woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 10:24 AM
9

People cheat due in large part to personality. Infidelity is around 50% heritable, just like other major personality facets and behaviors.
/r/PurplePillDebate10/08/21 10:22 AM
8

Jimmy Choo
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 10:44 PM
20

what if the shoes be really cute tho
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 10:38 PM
21

is stop complimenting women that aren’t your girlfriend. Many Women have said they don’t want compliments from strange men At the very least limit it to articles of clothing. "Your shoes are nice." It's when compliments get physical that it becomes something else.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 10:30 PM
–

Men who buy strange women drinks in bars - why? Does this actually help you?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 10:28 PM
4

That is the same principle as buying a woman a drink in a bar. You’re not paying for sex, you’re paying for her to not ignore or reject you I have never bought a strange woman in a bar a drink in my entire life.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 10:19 PM
1

When I knew a date went well and I would see them again, I'd often say I'll pay this one and you can pay the next. Then you can pick up the check and if she still wants to pay next time she can.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 10:08 PM
3

I guarantee you most normal men don't even go into it thinking that a woman is taking risks.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 10:04 PM
6

This is also like how chimpanzees bargain sex for food. Exchanging sex for food is probably pretty old as a behavior. Also why women will report wanting to split checks so they don't feel obligated to have sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 09:59 PM
24

The resistance comes from people who don't want to be taken advantage of. Do you remember this study where one third of women reported having done a "foodie call," or a date solely to get a man to buy them a meal. Men don't want to date someone who is just using them for financial or material gain. It's not even ideological or a TRP thing. Splitting big checks is already the norm.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 09:57 PM
–

oof that's a match
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 08:52 PM
–

Current chest section of the PPL for me: 5x5 bench, 13x3 incline dumbbell press 20x3 neutral grip chest press machine. Try a wider grip and flare your elbows a little on the bench to target the chest more. If you're feeling it's mostly tris you may have your elbows really tucked in.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 07:18 PM
14

If women are looking to be more honest without sounding bitchy, they could go with "Sorry, you're not my type." This is the kind of thing women do say.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 07:09 PM
–

It’s getting ridiculous to the point where I see 5’8-5’11 guys complaining that they are short in which they are not .A 5’8 man is taller than 90 percent of women ….. Yep it's exaggerated. If you're 5'11 and not getting dates it is not because of your height.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 06:50 PM
6

Sorry, but healthy balanced people do not lose their tempers as at new dates for being rejected. These men need actual therapy.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 05:59 PM
–

Terrorism is when you call a man a scrote.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 05:22 PM
–

This has big "I make money why won't women touch my pp" vibes.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 05:21 PM
1

Halo effect is real - you're probably perceived as less interesting / bad personality just by being less attractive. That said, r/NiceGuys and other subreddits are full of men who get politely declined and then lose their minds. Do you think women can't pick up on subtle hints that someone is an unstable loser apart from their looks? Vibes are real. Humans pick up on subtle clues in behavior when people are threatening or otherwise off. Being ugly probably has something to do with it, but given …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 05:16 PM
12

Yep - literally every time a woman politely declines a relationship and a man flips his shit. There are whole subs like niceguys documenting it. The woman is super cool relationship material until she says no, then she's every profanity in the book.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 05:06 PM
9

Pretty much exactly how the authors explained it.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 03:39 PM
2

No, by definition if you don't stay with one person you failed to pairbond with them. This how I define it at least. This is why I don't like the term pair bond at all really. This isn't what natural scientists mean when they use it. If you mean lifelong monogamy that's pretty rare for human beings. We didn't evolve to do it and I'm not even sure if most people really want that.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 03:38 PM
2

Part of the issue is conflating pair bonding with marriage. If you scroll down you'll see a longer post with scientific references explaining how it is not. Animals pair bond often and repeatedly. A divorce does not mean someone failed to pair bond. It only means they are no longer pair bonded (if they ever were to begin with). Sexually dimorphic species don't usually form lifelong pair bonds. Humans are serial monogamists and healthy average people should be forming at least a few pair bonds ov…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 03:03 PM
1

This research seems entirely intuitive to me. You don't think people who have benevolent sexist attitudes are likely to have more children - why not? They believe in traditional gender and family roles. Benevolent sexism covaries with conservativism which also predicts larger families. It's negatively related to education level iirc, which predicts smaller families. I really don't think these studies model human behaviour very well at all. You're literally able to predict a specific behavior - h…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:57 PM
5

💪💪
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:41 PM
10

Pair bonding and promiscuity are complimentary in animals, they are not forces that work against one another. This is why we see extremely strong pair bonding behavior in highly dimorphic and promiscuous animal species: Promiscuity drives sexual selection in a socially monogamous bird Keep in mind pair bonding describes a biological behavior, not a social behavior. It is not lifelong in most species. Sexually dimorphic species (like humans) almost never form lifelong pair bonds. Marriage is not …
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:40 PM
3

That's exactly what the ecological fallacy is if you think you can tell the divorce probably of an individual based on the group mean: An example of ecological fallacy is the assumption that a population mean has a simple interpretation when considering likelihoods for an individual. For instance, if the mean score of a group is larger than zero, this does not imply that a random individual of that group is more likely to have a positive score than a negative one (as long as there are more negat…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 01:51 PM
4

Do you think hoes/golddiggers are more likely or less likely to divorce than sluts?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 01:48 PM
7

The risk of divorce is the same for men and women with high partner counts. The "pair bond" framing is pseudoscience.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 01:36 PM
8

It doesn't account for "literally everything else" - which is actually "literally" impossible. Every correlation has the potential to be influenced by a third variable. This is why you can never assume the direction of a correlation nor can you assume causality. To be strictly correct, "more partners a woman has = more likelihood of relationship ending prematurely" is also wrong. Women with more partners on average - as a group - are more likely to divorce. This does not mean any single one woma…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 01:32 PM
22

It is true. BPD, psychopathy, etc. are all linked to high promiscuity in men just like they are in women.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 12:41 PM
23

"Fail to pair bond" is an invention with no scientific support. Not one single biologist has ever claimed this. The data show high N count people are more likely to divorce. It does not tell you why. It does not even show a direction of the relationship: people less likely to divorce are also less likely to have had many partners. The data also do show a correlation with religiosity. People less likely to divorce are also less likely to have high N counts and more likely to be religious.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 12:40 PM
4

FDS hides nothing about the fact that it is explicitly to take financial advantage of men. Wanting men to pay for them is a great vetting strategy - for men. It will immediately clue you in to the fact the woman is a gold-digger. It should be a big red flag. Is it a good strategy for women? Well, if your goal is to find a man you can financially exploit then yes. It will in fact find FDS women the type of man they want by design. Will it find them a "high value man?" Probably not, which is why i…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 12:29 PM
–

lol I watched an episode of that it was hilarious
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 03:05 AM
–

oof she does look bad here, probably still a prize for a lot of PPD dudes nonetheless
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 03:03 AM
–

Who knows if he is average elsewhere. This is mostly for men who think they having average physical attractiveness is enough of a deal breaker they can't get dates.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:59 AM
–

The ratings from the little survey have them pretty closely matched with her being more attractive, both hanging out right around a 5/10.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:53 AM
–

From my small survey people seem to agree she is average and matched with this man. This is my own perception as well. She actually seems even more attractive than he does in the Guardian article photo.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:47 AM
–

Yep I agree. I think people often overstate how difficult it is for an average man. However for people well below average the struggle is real. I think also a lot of people below average rate themselves as average, then when they struggle they think it's really hard for an average person.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:44 AM
–

What's holding so many PPD men back from being the choice of a woman like this?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:41 AM
–

Yes that's part of my point - 137 men who made the final cut failed to a bald average dude. The competition really is not that high even if you're just actually average. Makes me wonder how bad the other ones were if she picked this one.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:31 AM
–

I think she wasn't actually FDS, they just used her as a sort of FDS adjacent example since she wrote a book about dating strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:28 AM
7

Fortunately men aren't randomly distributed either, so even if it's only 1/100 men nationwide you'll probably have more frequent contact. Young people tend to cluster together, old together etc.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:24 AM
–

Seems like this would be an anecdote against The Wall as well. She was able to line up 138 dates from OLD, as opposed to struggling to find a partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/08/21 02:21 AM
6

Yep high toxicity community. Fortunately none of them have become actual murderers like mgtow/incls.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 10:11 PM
0

Single child free people with extra income on FDS.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 08:17 PM
11

I use an atomic clock to make sure anyone I date was born as the exact same time as myself down to the second. If you don't do this you're probably a pedophile.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 08:16 PM
-2

Where would you rate him 1-10 and how do you rate yourself 1-10?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 05:10 PM
5

Looking at the rateme scale he doesn't seem anywhere near as attractive as the 7s. Looks to be about a five. Just facially. I wouldn't describe him as fit either, he doesn't fill out his shirt and it looks like he has enough pooch to hang past his belt. Most likely skinny fat himself. Where do you rate yourself relative to him? Are you more or less attractive?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 05:06 PM
0

How do you rate them 1-10?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 04:51 PM
1

How do you rate this man 1-10?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 04:50 PM
24

lol I saw that too. alopecia assortative mating
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 04:38 PM
-1

small pp comment
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 04:33 PM
17

Rebekah Campbell remembers the moment she knew things had to change. “I got to age 34 and woke up one Christmas morning on a fold-out bed in the garage of some friends of my parents Campbell was single and had not been on a date since the death of her boyfriend a decade prior. she resolved to begin dating the same way she launched brands: by sketching out a plan that resembled the “sales funnel” she used in her work. lol the autism is high Anyway this is a photo of her husband. That's who she pi…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 04:30 PM
9

Monogamy is natural in human beings. Homo sapiens is unique among primates in that it is the only group-living species in which monogamy is the major mating system and the only species in which females do not reveal their ovulation by estrus. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0140175079900010
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 04:19 PM
3

It's the naturalistic fallacy in both cases. Men and women "shouldn't" do anything just because it was a selected behavior. Evolutionary fitness does not mean your relationships will be good, that you will feel good, etc. Now, I see lots of videos (sometimes from the same creators) saying that men are polyamorous and are designed to spread their seed far and wide and that they should be accepted for that however, women should remain monogamous because they were designed too. This goes against th…
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 04:18 PM
24

Conventionally the sexual peak or "most horny" time for women does not align with the period of greatest fertility. It occurs later. This makes sense from an evolutionary POV, since it would drive mating and reproduction later in life as fertility wanes and opportunities to reproduce decrease.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/08/21 12:39 PM
4

This is just a day game PUA video except it's a girl. Setting aside the fact it's TikTok and you shouldn't even believe these are real interactions, if you approach enough people you'll eventually be able to make your own video of four women who give you their number.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 11:04 PM
6

Do women usually starfish with you? Is this based on personal experience?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 09:55 PM
0

Let's get the apes on Reddit and they will write dissertations for us about how shit their lives are.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 08:30 PM
0

Yes all the time. And if not their equals usually the woman is more attractive.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 08:28 PM
2

Pretty sure Sartre, who was a communist and maintained a poly relationship with a prominent feminist, would have thought RP was pretty ridiculous.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 06:48 PM
3

This is Robert Sternberg's triangular theory of love. This can be used to describe different types of committed relationships. Also to describe how relationships shift over time. Over on the right hand side of the triangle you can see relationships that lack sexual passion but maintain intimacy and companionship. This probably describes a lot of long term marriages and sexless elderly couples. This is a model that has been replicated cross nationally. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 05:26 PM
9

Yes good observation. The women rating male attractiveness were exposed to a ton of variables that could make a man more or less attractive, such as height. The observers only saw facial photos.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 02:46 PM
2

I think it's hard to compare the ratings given by observers, since they were based on a photo and the women's ratings were based on interacting with the person. External raters are also usually given rating criteria to follow, kind of like the rateme sub instructions.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 02:34 PM
5

The discrepancy in the attractiveness ratings of observers and the women in the experiment could be due to a couple of things: The women actually met the men, the observers are going by photos. The women are basing ratings on what is attractive to them subjectively, whereas the observers are basing attractiveness on an "objective" standard. This is usually a codified instruction of how to rate men and women based on objective criteria of features. The observers may also be a mixed group of men a…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 02:27 PM
4

watching what women do provides far more information than listening to what they say Attractiveness was less closely related to the men women picked for a second date than it was to their short and long term ratings or men. If this is what women say vs what they do, it shows women value attractiveness less than they say they do.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 02:00 PM
5

That part could be yes. Those were the attractiveness ratings given to the men by the independent raters. Women's own ratings had short/long term preferences closer.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 01:14 PM
4

Yep. I didn't list it in the OP but men also selected partners who scored higher on the creativity measure.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 01:11 PM
1

In other news, hot, smart women are not seen as long term material but below average smart women are?? Well there was not a negative correlation here where hot smart women would have been less preferred than normal. It just didn't seem to matter as a variable. Perhaps it was more important for lower attractiveness women because the men who chose or rated them were basing the selection on something other than just attractiveness. Like "she's not that cute but she has a good personality."
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 12:58 PM
2

It doesn't look like there is any measure of the number of sexual partners at all. I don't see it anywhere in the tables or results section. The methodology section says he created dichotomous variables from this info, just "sex prior to marriage" or not. So yeah it's not in the study. Whoever added it to the wiki article lied, cited the wrong study or something. You should edit the wiki article and take it out tbh. So is 80% of divorces at 16 partners plausible? You can't know if it's plausible…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 08:39 AM
1

I have read this research and posted on it here. Doubled is not accurate since it does not scale. This would imply women with ten partners have really had 20, which the results do not show at all.Women lied by approximately one person more on average. I have also posted similar research here that used the same bogus pipeline methodology that found no difference between genders or the anonymous/lie detector condition. It doesn't seem to be a finding that has been replicated well.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 08:21 AM
2

Could see yourself dating a ridiculous man who likes to go dancing, wears crazy clothes, acts like himself and will always be himself, people love him, and he has an excellent way with people, but then again, society is his main priority, not you. He's unstable, but he's fun and attractive. His buddies just called him up and have a place in Sicily ready for him to work at. He's EXTREMELY popular on social media, so many women love him and flirt with him and he likes to tease them, because why no…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 08:15 AM
–

I'm sorry that you don't understand the math like a low IQ clown and just want to use this platform to rant at women. Unfortunately it will not help you get a woman to touch your pp one day.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 08:02 AM
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I think blue pill makes more good points especially research wise Because the people called "blue pill" are the normies that base their beliefs on normal sources. There is no real "blue pill" ideology, it's just what RP call everything not RP. Meanwhile RP is a formed and crystalized ideology based on Internet forums. RP men are likely to post a study if they think it supports the ideology, but go full science denial if a different study does not support it. Ideology doesn't have the flexibility…
/r/PurplePillDebate07/08/21 12:01 AM
1

Women fantasize about men like these and say they won't accept anything less while sitting alone on the couch or lying in their beds but then end up with men like these. It really does show that women's preferences are sky-high when imagining who they want to be with. Men also fantasize about models and then end up with average women. Does this show men's preferences are sky high?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:52 PM
4

If women weren't more miserable than men in marriages then why do women initiate 75% of divorce? This would actually be two separate questions: is a woman miserable at the date of the question vs is a woman miserable at any point in the relationship ever. People could report not being miserable at the moment, yet still want a divorce later. I'm not sure most divorced people would describe their entire relationship as miserable.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:43 PM
6

Dolan had misinterpreted one of the categories in the survey, “spouse absent,” which refers to married people whose partner is no longer living in their household, as meaning the spouse stepped out of the room. lol
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:41 PM
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I am a research psychologist and I teach statistics. Almost every time someone says "small sample size" online it's bullshit. In fact your entire comment is r/badstatistics material. There's a multitude of factors that can't be controlled Basically every single study ever, particularly when working with people. N=15000 is too small a sample size A sample size of 80 is considered a medium sample size in this field, a sample size of 120 is large. A sample size of 1000 gives you enough power to gen…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 10:27 PM
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looks to be very poor quality, particularly statistically How specifically?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 09:28 PM
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Oh I thought you meant dating success. I don't think any of that will help men get dates.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 09:24 PM
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really seem to get treated like dirt Meanwhile he sat there for half an hour getting no attention at all. I feel like there is a big gap between getting treated like dirt and being ignored. I do see the men here frame being ignored as being treated badly. I'm sorry, but it just is not. Women not wanting to interact with you is not mistreatment. The guy in front of me (who was sort of a stereotypical nerdy Asian guy) had forgotten his ticket and the girl turned him away. Like this is a 100% norma…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 08:52 PM
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Saying it's 'predictive' is a statement asserting causation It is not. All correlations are predictions. Every single one of them. Linear regression is literally your independent variable predicting your dependant variable. It does not need to be causal. on the level of a fortune cookie or phrenology Do you believe fortune cookies can predict results beyond chance? Because this is what predictive validity is: mathematical evidence that the construct of your psychometric device actually exists as…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 08:33 PM
0

Being Black is a real thing, it's not random and race does predict crime if it's an isolated variable. So you went from saying it's not real to using an example of something real.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 07:55 PM
3

Or when are we as a society going to actually look at why the distribution of success is so lopsided? When are we actually going to address the root of the matter? What is the root of the matter and what actions should be taken to address it?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 07:42 PM
2

Completely untrue. It's not untrue, that's literally why it is called predictive "validity." The ability to predict a variable is validation of a psychometric instrument. The basic statistical tests used with the instrument are designed to exclude random results due to noise.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 07:32 PM
2

Low IQ post. The ASI has predictive validity. For example, actual convicted rapists score higher in hostile sexism. If the construct did not measure something real and non-random then predictive validity would not be possible.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 07:24 PM
3

Can't really argue with a bunch of vague anecdotes and generalisations.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 07:11 PM
6

Does RP teach men not to be goddamn crybabies? Seems like the least masculine and attractive thing you can do is whine nonstop about how dating is hard and women don't want to touch your pp. If I didn't see these kinds of outbursts posted up on social media I'd assume you kept your angst to yourselves, but it seems all to common men unload their baggage on women they're interested in. Also what ever happened to RP/MGTOW promoting stoicism? You mfers are having a really hard time internalizing st…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 06:38 PM
1

oof that's some clown logic. "If x group weren't terrible y group wouldn't say they were." First, you haven't "witnessed" all women. You're generalizing based on your limited experience, which for most of this sub is literally less than the average man. Second, "men" don't call women terrible. You're projecting the beliefs of a fringe extremist male subculture on normal men. My experience of women has been mostly great and my only experience of men who think women are terrible is that the are mo…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 06:09 PM
1

Being treated like a human being doesn't mean you're entitled to romantic attention.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 06:01 PM
0

It's not on women to prevent men from becoming misogynists.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 05:13 PM
7

We can breed LVM out of existence too. If we stopped dating them they would either learn to adapt to hopefully a HVM or they would become extinct like the rapey birds. FDS eugenics
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 04:01 PM
-4

almost every single study is about men being toxic whereareas there are no investigations on misandry. As a man and a researcher I'd never be interested in doing a study on misandry personally, because I've never observed it to be meaningful my life and the lives of the men around me. Also because I'm not a whiny little baby who construes every drop of negativity toward men as a meaningful phenomenon worthy of examination. I'm sure there is research on misandry if you look for it nonetheless.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 03:24 PM
2

I've read some research on sexual satisfaction but I'd have to go and look for it, nothing that I remember really well at the moment. It's definitely out there though.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 02:15 PM
24

A relationship where one person makes all the money is never really going to be very egalitarian. The other person depends on you for survival. Their relationship to you is like your relationship with your job. Are you even putting your money in a shared bank account and making a joint decision? Probably not. If the relationship ends you have a career and the other person has nothing.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 01:55 PM
27

I think this explanation makes sense too.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 01:19 PM
8

The R squared values of condom use/number of partners/first sexual encounter are really small, so these may not be meaningful predictors at all. .02 for number of lifetime sexual partners, meaning less than 2% of the model's variance in sexism is explained by number of sexual partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 01:17 PM
14

The Ambivalent Sexism Inventory is a scale, so it's not that men and women either accept it or don't. Individuals will score differently on the scale. Some higher, some lower.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 12:42 PM
0

The question for me: are men who have never had a relationship by 25 less likely to have children later in life? It seems like being unable to form a relationship by 25 would be normal for below average and undesirable men, who would be less likely to reproduce. Is this actually the case though, do we know if men who don't have relationships by 25 are less likely to make a baby?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 12:05 PM
1

Abs are the last thing to show up for me, very unfortunate. I can have veins popping on delts and thighs and still no abs.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:57 AM
6

Keeping exes around will always be a red flag and a trust issue.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:54 AM
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You should look up Kohlberg's stages of moral development. Moral reasoning is developmental. The way we form beliefs about morality follows an empirical trajectory. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg's_stages_of_moral_development If you need an objective source like a law to tell you what is moral, it's likely you have lagged or stunted moral development. You would be down at Stage 4 moral development, in what is called conventional morality. I say "stunted," but one observation w…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:43 AM
1

By epidemiological standards it is. Even a small percentage of fatalities is a large number of raw deaths. To compare, malaria is considered a severe global health risk. In 2019 there were ten times more covid deaths than malaria.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:33 AM
1

Low IQ comment.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:18 AM
1

Thanks for confirming it's made up.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:05 AM
7

old-age male fertility provides a selective force against autosomal deleterious mutations at ages far past female menopause with no sharp upper age limit, eliminating the wall of death https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0000785 Basically the reason we live so long as a species is because men remain fertile more or less for the entire lifespan.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:04 AM
1

Are people who have never been able to form a relationship by 25 as likely to have a baby at all though? It seems like a different question from marriage age and divorce.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 11:01 AM
1

Sounds made up. Prove women have had double.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 10:45 AM
2

For example an average 30 y/o man may have been with 10 women in LTR or STR's, as a 30 y/o woman has been in about 20 to 30 at least in todays society. And I'm being pretty light on it. Why do you believe this? What numbers is that based on?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 01:35 AM
1

Yep I agree, or at least definitely wait to have kids older. Something that made a very big impression on me when I was an undergraduate was a lecture where the professor presented a series of longitudinal studies on life trajectories before and after having kids. People made less money, abandoned careers and studies, had huge drops in reported happiness, it was a bunch of stuff. Marriage at least you can get divorced, but a young pregnancy seems like a great way to screw up your life.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 12:07 AM
1

the chances for autism increases by 28%. That's a lot bigger odd than lottery The prevalence of ASD is 1.8%, so at a 28% increase it would raise risk to 2.3%. Definitely higher than a lotto, but an absolute increase of .5% might not be very compelling for older men and women wanting to have a baby. For me personally I probably wouldn't rush having a baby based on that increase in risk. Also, aside from health risks as older parents there are health or developmental benefits associated with older…
/r/PurplePillDebate06/08/21 12:02 AM
3

Why do you think access to men/women causes "baggage?"
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 11:48 PM
1

Still, these numbers aren’t reason to drastically change any life plans, as the risks are still relatively low, Eisenberg said. He compared the increased risks to buying lottery tickets. “If you buy two lottery tickets instead of one, your chances of winning double, so it’s increased by 100 percent,” he said. “But that’s a relative increase. Because your chance of winning the lottery started very small, it’s still unlikely that you’re going to win the lottery. This is a very extreme example, but…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 11:37 PM
1

I looked up the study by Bisson and Levine referenced. Of the 65 women and 60 men, 35 women and 40 men reported having been in a FWB relationship. So approximately 54% of women and 66% of men. This was a statistically insignificant difference in FWB prevalence. No sex differences in prevalence were observed; lifetime FWB, x2 (1) = 2.14, p = .14; current FWB, x2 (1) = 3.10, p = .08. So while FWBs are common it looks like men and women engage in them at pretty equal rates.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 11:27 PM
1

I have number of sexual partners up here too which isn't binary.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 11:13 PM
0

This is like someone saying a person born poor has the same chance of becoming AS wealthy as a person born rich. Its not a measure of chance, it's a measure of what actually is. You may or may not have had it easier, but actual relationship outcomes for men and women are very equal by these measures. The Gini coefficient applied to income also does not take into consideration anything except income. It can't tell you if someone had 1 job offer or 100 for example. If both people end up making 50k…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 09:32 PM
1

I assume for sexual partners you're using the average number (the mean) of partners for each sex. No, this uses the distribution of partners from the CDC link above. the median for men is a lot lower than for women You can look at the link above and see that there is enough overlap in the distribution that this is not the case. You only begin to see a big difference in men at 15+ partners. Or from a different source: The median number of sexual partners for both men and women is 4-6. Look at how…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 09:10 PM
2

The three chads just had nice physiques but faces similar to the left two cels and all 3 normies.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 08:17 PM
1

but most people aren’t getting laid regularly or having relationships A majority of people are in a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 08:11 PM
0

What percentage of men and women are in FWBs? We could plug it in and see. It may still be a 1:1 ratio however, similar to other relationships. The last link I posted said only 2-3% of men and women have had more than one concurrent sexual partner over the last year. I'd expect based on this that FWBs are still mostly just one person.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 06:26 PM
1

I wonder what the zero binaries are compared to each other. What is the % of a modern economy populace with $0 income (including welfare). I wondered this too and it reminded me of half of Americans having debt or no savings.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 06:12 PM
0

Yep it was in the OP. The G for men and women based on number of sexual partners: Women is .405 Men is .411 This is very close and similar to European economies. Also keep in mind relationships aren't inherently binary. There is no reason why one person can't have ten girlfriends. This is why I included the stat that only 2-3% of men and women have maintained more than one concurrent sexual partner in the past year. Anyway even with a range of numbers the issue comparing Tinder likes/sexual part…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 06:02 PM
-2

Number of sexual partners is not a binary. That said, I totally expected most of the responses to say "you can't compare income with dating." That's correct. It is something I have pointed out here. Yet this is exactly what RP does. I found multiple posts on this sub searching for Gini coefficient. Interesting that when RP men think they can use this metric to show relationship inequality no one says "but you can't compare income and relationships." Yet when we apply it to actual mate selection …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 05:42 PM
17

Let me dispute a few points OP, starting with part of the title: most men here know that because they've seen both sides Per the recent survey, 30% of men here have never had sex and 70% are not in relationships. Virtually no one here is a "Chad" and it's mostly men who have struggled a lot. So I don't think you can say most men have seen both sides. This is a community with a lot of men who have very little experience. Your "average" Joe ain't gonna have the body count of his LTR. Average sexua…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 03:06 PM
1

Not being attracted to someone and wanting them to fuck off ASAP does not make a woman a "feminist bitch who hates men." Men need to clue up and learn to read when someone isn't interested.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 02:45 PM
3

Depending on one's definition, anyone who gets sex is a Chad. Even I. And I'm a woman. The rare sigma femchad
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 02:38 PM
3

What evidence would be needed to disprove this to you? To start, let me throw this out there: 50% of men are in relationships. Is half of the population a Chad?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 02:37 PM
1

If you think the dual mating hypothesis in human evolution is real, then "cucking" is an evolutionary strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 02:34 PM
11

Shrek has a highly dimorphic face so according to RP pseudoscience he should be a Chad.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 02:29 PM
8

Anything under 31 years old is basically a fetus.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 02:26 PM
22

Of course "enforced monogamy" in anthropology refers to the police as well. Laws are enforcement of social norms. The fact polygamy is illegal is a good example of enforced monogamy, as were laws criminalizing adultery or limiting divorce.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 02:19 PM
2

I was talking about, I was specifically referring to what comes after the blowjob Nap and sandwich
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 11:36 AM
1

Do you feel like you don't know why women won't date you without them telling you? It seems like PPD men think they have it entirely figured out. It's not a case of "I don't know, I need the truth." It's really that these men just want women to regurgitate their own ideology, what they already believe about their own dating failures. However women confirming ideological shit you already believe isn't going to change a single thing for you.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 12:47 AM
2

So for example, if a woman says: "You're a sweet boy with a good job, but you are physically unattractive. It's unfair and that's the way it is." do you think men would take that less personally? This seems to be what sexless men already believe. When people are like "why won't women admit it" then it just sounds like demanding confirmation of something they already believe to be true. It's not going to improve your relationships or dates. Incels would just be like "ah ha! so the whore admits it…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 12:44 AM
–

I have said in the past MGTOW/incels/RP think like conspiracy theorists so I'm not surprised to see some actual overlap here.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 12:18 AM
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women would have to agree that often times, people in their gender are not attracted to good men for shallow reasons How does constantly trying to get women to admit they aren't attracted to "good men" benefit you? I see this preoccupation a lot on here.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/08/21 12:13 AM
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Women are not constantly scanning our environment looking for attractive men to pursue This should be obvious even to men who have spent a lot of time around women. (Mostly not PPD men.)
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 10:00 PM
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No one here or in TRP or anywhere is saying women are instantly attracted to Chad on looks alone. Seems like people say pretty much this all the time here.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 09:59 PM
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This is a case where people are going online and just saying the things they wouldn't say in real life, hence this is what people are actually thinking. Hilarious that you believe it's people candidly saying shit they wouldn't say in real life. Instead of people performing for entertainment and saying shit they'd never do in real life.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 04:01 PM
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This comment is a good example of how RP men form their beliefs based on shit they see on-line. You know minor TikTok celebrities are not representative of most people right?
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 03:51 PM
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Half of all men are in relationships, so this cannot be the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 03:47 PM
-2

no wonder the US has by far the highest number of school shootings School shootings just prove that the weird creepy kid was even worse than everyone expected.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 01:56 PM
3

If reddit is trying to radicalize men they're doing a good job No one became an extremist due to having their forum banned. In fact these are all communities where people find reinforcement and normalisation for extreme fringe views and self radicalize.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 01:16 PM
2

At least there are seats
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 01:14 PM
9

Yep "love bombing" only makes sense in the context of a manipulation tactic. Seems like it would be hard to identify except in retrospect, when you see the "love bombing" followed by other narcissistic or whatever behavior. Love bombing without some negative thing following it is just a lot of attention.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 01:10 PM
3

Yep just by the numbers a DT person is more likely to pair up with someone who is not, even if they're also more likely to date another DT person than average.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 12:57 PM
5

This is true although it's not inherently contradictory. DT people could pursue both other DT people and empathetic or codependent people more than they pursue the general population. I don't know if that's the case but it could be.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 12:55 PM
2

This isn't a scientific study, just some overpaid rando's inner monologue. The entirety of RP ideology is just a collection of randos inner monologues.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 12:53 PM
6

So why should a man be principled when emulating asshole behaviour works better? It has never been shown that it works better. You guys just think this because your ideology is based entirely on anecdotes and you mistake correlation for causation. You think that because DT men are more promiscuous you can emulate DT traits to get more sex, ignoring all third variables that explain the actual causal relationship. On top of this, it's almost always the case that creepy ass dudes think they are bei…
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 12:51 PM
1

I don't think capitalism is old enough to have given us many selection pressures, but heredity does explain a lot of financial success, income and education level. These all follow the 50-0-50 rule in behavioral genetics, where about half of the variance is explained by heritability.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 09:23 AM
1

I read an anecdote on there where a woman was talking about going to a man's house and the entire interior had a layer of concrete dust and was covered in spiderwebs. It sounded like she was describing a scene from Upton Sinclair's The Jungle.
/r/PurplePillDebate04/08/21 09:19 AM
11

I don't think it's masculine or feminine. I don't think balloons have enough cultural significance to be gendered. I actually don't associate most extreme sports with a gender. I don't think "masculine skateboarder" or whatever. Masculinity just isn't what comes to mind here. Sports that have a cultural association with masculinity on the other hand: boxing, American football.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 11:06 PM
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lol this is low key romantic
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 11:02 PM
–

This belief arose in the manosphere based in part on studies of prairie voles. These animals, that pair bond for life, can be made non monogamous by gene editing that disrupts oxytocin production. This turned into: women with multiple partners can't pair bond because they don't produce oxytocin. That's the actual origin of the myth.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 09:42 PM
20

Ah yes, the traditionally masculine hobby of... floating in a balloon.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 09:29 PM
3

lol the app PPD needs
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 06:24 PM
1

I used to climb. Your hands will just get tough eventually. No one uses gloves. Gloves will slip right off of holds.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 03:36 PM
2

How many men went without sex for a period of one year in 1700 or 1900?
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 03:15 PM
3

This is how incels form their ideology folks: photos online of older women with male strippers.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 03:08 PM
1

hence ZVM Enigmatic Zeta Value Male
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 02:28 PM
6

This could be true, I don't know 100% off hand. There are tons of very real differences between the sexes of course. If this means the foundation of all of our gender roles is rooted in biology is another question. A good example of a sex difference associated with gender roles is simply physical size. The fact men are larger and stronger has probably shaped a lot of our gender roles. The size is innate - does that mean the gender roles are innate or that we're bound to them in some way? For exa…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 12:51 PM
1

About 50% of the variance in physical attractiveness is shared or "objective" traits/features. The remaining 50% is relative to the individual, to individual differences and preference. This gives a lot of leeway for who people find attractive. It also explains why a 6 might be highly attractive to one person and not attractive to the next.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 12:25 PM
2

Human beings didn't evolve to be "hyper dominant." We have all of the physical and behavioral traits of extreme cooperation. More than any other animal, like our big brains. We have small sexual dimorphism unlike species with high male aggression and dominance.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 12:13 PM
26

Interesting post OP. I am a research psychologist, my master's program was pretty neuro heavy and I did my thesis working with MRIs. I don't do anything in cognitive now but I have a friend who is a neuro prof now and she does her work on brain differences and sexuality. I've sat through her lectures and others in cognitive. One thing that has consistently been made very clear is that you can't assume innateness to individual differences in brain structure. The brain is highly plastic and we usu…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 12:09 PM
18

I feel like this will appeal to structured and neurotic people. Like if you enjoyed Jordan Peterson you would probably enjoy a relationship contract bucko.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 02:12 AM
30

Men are still disproportionately responsible for all the best crime.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 02:09 AM
10

I have literally never encountered it in real life and matched with 20 year olds all the time. If people care about it they aren't saying much.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 02:05 AM
5

This is interesting. I went and read the Banks & Arnold paper referenced here. I don't have a strong opinion on if male or female older relationships are seen as worse. They said it could be because a female older relationship is associated with a mother role. I could see that triggering the disgust button. What I did notice reading this paper is that they ran seven t-tests across the data, which is really not how t-tests should be used. Every additional t-test on the same data adds 5% error, so…
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 01:22 AM
15

Jealousy probably does not describe most of it. It's a social stigma and mild taboo. Humans have a personality facet related to disgust that queues up on taboos, entirely unrelated to any logical reasons for the taboo. It's just a visceral reaction. (Even though most taboos do have some good rationale.) Socially conservative people are more sensitive to this disgust. This has been linked to a lot of disapproval of sexual acts or identity. I think the age gap probably triggers a mild disgust for …
/r/PurplePillDebate03/08/21 12:12 AM
8

OP, from the recent survey 30% of posters here have never had sex and 70% are not in relationships. TRP men are not the relationship understanders. Men who literally cannot get a woman to touch their pp but say women are fat/ugly/old/the wall/etc are just doing the sour grapes fallacy. Edit - OLD is probably a really good place to avoid these types of people too since they've written OLD off completely as being dominated by Chads.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 08:36 PM
1

You didn't debunk anything in fact you don't even understand math or statistics I am a research psychologist and I teach a class on research design, which is a statistics course. I'm afraid it's you who isn't following the numbers. I have shown you that there are enough age gap relationships to cover the entire difference. If you think there is a better explanation the onus is on you to post data to support it. This is not going to be a large percentage of this population. Prove it. Show me the …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 07:48 PM
1

The last link I gave shows most couples are only a few years apart. It shows the average age difference is 2.5 years, I said 3 years. This still means approximately 40% of relationships fall somewhere on the age gap. This is the only known number: we know how many age gap relationships exist. It already accounts for most of the difference. I can absolutely combine the age groups No, as you see they don't total 100%. Most likely an artifact of over-sampling. You cannot take the means of two separ…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 06:53 PM
13

Have a baby young and do your career later is pretty obviously terrible advice.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 05:32 PM
1

I have read every anecdote on chadforum.com
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 05:24 PM
0

Likes and swipes are not measures of relationships. They don't tell you who is single, who is in a relationship, who gets dates or who has sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 05:19 PM
2

This leave us with two options: A) women are dating men way more older than "a couple years" or B) some men are dating more than one woman at a time. A considerable (not the majority but a good chunk) percentage of women are dating men +5-9 years older AND/OR sharing a man with other women. Problem is no one ever shows any data to support the claim harems account for any meaningful variance at all. It's not sufficient to just assume it. Age gap relationships on the other hand are already well qu…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 05:15 PM
1

Easy explanation, they interviewed a disproportionate amount of older people where single women outnumber single men. In the main age group (18 to 49) single men vastly outnumber single women. "Easy explanation" does not account for it. You need to show data that explains it. This is a nationally representative dataset with a margin of error of 2%. Combine the age groups and 50% more single men than women is a good estimate. These numbers are not cumulative. You can't combine the individual grou…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 05:01 PM
0

On average, using those numbers men aged below 50 are 39% likely to be single, women only 25%. When including the <65 group those numbers change to 35% and 26%. When using the entire dataset it's 31% men and 31% women who are single. You will not be able to total or sum the individual cohorts to come up with a figure. You can see they don't add up to 100%. This is why the total percentage by gender was given as a separate statistic.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 04:48 PM
3

Seems like only the bottom 10% of men think it's better to be a woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 04:21 PM
-1

All the Chads told me. 100% of Chads.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 04:11 PM
23

I know a Chad who was always monogamous and would never do this. Therefore it doesn't happen. The miracle of anecdotes.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 03:54 PM
2

How did you combine 18-29 and 30-49 to come up with 50% male singleness in this group? Since 30-49 is lower than 18-29 I'd expect it to pull the percent down. Plus you can't combine groups and get a new total percentage without the raw data to know the absolute number of singles. I don't see combining the groups as doing anything, given women are twice as likely to be single 65+. This is where your extra people are going: shifted up and accounted for in the tail. There is a simple statistic this…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 03:37 PM
2

55/45 - so you think approximately half of men are single and the other half are dating more than one woman?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 02:15 PM
1

Would having one FWB count as overlapping sexual partners? I'd have to look at the methodology to see but I'd imagine you would need at least two concurrent FWBs for them to be overlapping.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 02:04 PM
2

You are purposefully ignoring that single men outnumber single women by 50% from 18-49. That's 2 different age groups. Women in their mid to late 40's dating men in their 50's is not going to cover such a significant percentage of the population to account for a 50% difference in singleness. I'm not ignoring it, I explained it: it is tiered. Yes, women in their 40s dating men in their 50s, women in their 30s dating men in their 40s, etc. explains it. At every cohort approximately 40-50% of women…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 01:45 PM
8

lol I don't mind age gaps, but I'm not suggesting anyone do anything, I'm just explaining the data. 50% of women above age 26 are dating a man who is at least 30 years old. This will give us fewer single women in the 20-30 age group than men. It's not even due to huge age gaps, just an artifact of the cutoff in the data.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 01:14 PM
1

There are not enough people in large age gap relationships to account for this. There are actually. The age gap does not need to be large. It's every male 30 and above who is in a relationship with any woman between 20-29. With 50% of age gap relationships over 4 years of age and a cutoff of age 40, you approach 30%. With a one year age gap it's close to half or 50%. You can put these distributions on paper and line them up. Think about it another way: the average age gap is 3 years. Over 50% of…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 01:10 PM
2

Are you just going to ignore the data literally directly below the 31% number? I addressed it in my comment: this is because people date across age ranges. I find it highly unlikely that 65+ chads are the cause of the singleness discrepancy in the 18-49 ages. They're not. You see a tiered relationship: a lot of older men date younger women. This explains the statistics just fine. Fewer single males at 60+, but a larger number below age 30. The 40-30 and 30-20 age gaps explain it. This is how the…
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 12:14 PM
2

Absolute disaster
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 10:52 AM
20

An example of "common knowledge" being incorrect perhaps. The ratio of single men and women is 1:1. 31% of both men and women are single. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/ "But more young men are single than young women." Because people date across age groups. "It's because Chad has a harem." - There is only a 6% difference in men and women who casually date. Fewer than 3% of Americans report having overlapping sexual partners in the last year.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 10:43 AM
3

A lot less according to what?
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 10:11 AM
5

monogamy is based on being possessive and jealous Prove it with science. No one here is really interested in alt relationship conspiracy theories.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 09:56 AM
8

If they've been with 2-3 partners because they've had 2-3 LTRs sounds like a green flag actually. This is someone who follows a healthy pattern of serial monogamy and is able to maintain long term committed relationships without infidelity. I can't think of anything negative this pattern is known to be associated with. Average age for the first marriage in most Western countries is past 30 btw. A later age for marriage is also associated with a lower divorce rate.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 09:10 AM
13

Yep. However promiscuity predicts the same negative outcomes in men that it does in women, such as infidelity and divorce. Note how often you see men worry about high N count women, but you never hear men say, "Keep your N count low bros, it's associated with divorce."
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 08:59 AM
33

I think this explains why dating in general seems like such a disaster. The good people usually get in relationships quickly and stay in them.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 01:10 AM
2

If she has a double digit body count, 1/3 chance the marriage ends in 5 years. Probably 2/3 for 15-20. Statistics mean nothing? This does not mean any given individual within that group of people with a double digit body count has a 1/3 chance. That is the ecological fallacy. 1/3 is a group probability and does not apply to individual data points within the group. An individual data point can fall anywhere on the entire range and you cannot determine where it may fall from the group mean alone. …
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 12:59 AM
31

Even 10ish is nowhere near promiscuous for someone who was dating throughout their 20s. If you read the research OP posted, the divorce/promiscuity relationship is linear and begins immediately. Even someone with 2-3 partners has a higher chance of divorce. Around 10 partners is when the effect size for some of the other things (eg infidelity) becomes large as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 12:52 AM
45

The wooden pill
/r/PurplePillDebate02/08/21 12:50 AM
9

Yep accurate.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/21 04:44 PM
2

A cult-like element of both RP and FDS is the us/them framing. The in-group is awake and safe, out-group is asleep and dangerous. The FDS sub warns its users to be wary of interacting with outsiders. Critics of the ideology are denigrated as "pickmes."
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/21 04:44 PM
2

dumb, ignorant or evil Weird how lefties have higher IQ on average and higher levels of education too.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/21 02:41 PM
14

Your wife doesn't care about your day unless it benefits her. You can't prove this, which is one of the big epistemological flaws of RP. You guys just assert shit that is unproven and unfalsifiable on the regular. They might as well respond "I know she cares because God told me," it has as much evidence as your statement.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/21 02:00 PM
1

Good post.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/21 01:57 PM
18

I base my beliefs on research and data. The scientific method. This means RP arguments like "it's common sense bro just look around you" or "all women ride the cock carousel but they'll never tell the truth so I can't prove it" will never hit home. Occasionally RP lines up with facts like "looks matter." Rarely did RP discover these facts and usually they are already a part of mainstream "blue pill" dating culture. Given that, it's hard to see what RP has to offer. The unique parts tend to be un…
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/21 01:56 PM
1

Trust me. Source: Trust Me (literally)
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/21 01:37 PM
1

Evolution is not directed. There is no "supposed to" in evolution. The fact that only about 30% of men have contributed to the human gene pool and around 85% of women shows that asexuals - who are less than 1% of the population - are not a good go-to for your eugenics social collapse fantasy.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/21 01:34 PM
3

Assortative mating is an empirical fact. Wealthy and educated men are not marrying the cute local trash queen. The more options a man has the more he will consider these additional factors as well. I can tell you this as a man who has always had a lot of options. The 30% of men on this sub who have never had sex and the 70% not in relationships don't have the experience to say how men with options think.
/r/PurplePillDebate01/08/21 02:15 AM
9

a woman does not improve her value one iota (some would say it actually diminishes it) if she invests in education and climbing up the social ladder And yet people marry within income ranges, social class and education. Assortative mating. The best thing a woman can do to marry up is to first improve her own social class. to average men. Well there's the rub - high income and high education women have more value than low education and low income men. Of course they are not pairing off with low v…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 10:28 PM
1

If monogamy was natural then there would be no cheating and we all know cheating happens often. I'd nonmonogamy were natural no one would become jealous and no one would desire monogamous relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 09:42 PM
3

The meme version of "wake up sheeple."
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 07:22 PM
2

This definitely undermines my ability to have sympathy for them.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 07:20 PM
5

JP was right when he called incels and MGTOW worthless men actually. But since his fanbase is exactly this demographic he got a ton of backlash and had to walk it back.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 07:19 PM
2

Isn't being a deadbeat more consistent with the dangerous loser Dark Triad alpha male.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 07:16 PM
2

Husband goals.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 07:15 PM
1

Yep probably. We went through like a 1500 year period where monogamy was enforced by law and it still is to some extent. People didn't have the liberty to leave partners that they had at previous points in human history, or that we have now.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 07:14 PM
2

"Patriarchy" is derived from a single male leader of a large extended family group or tribe, not a nuclear family. Extended families and the tribal unit were still the dominant family units in Europe up until around the 12th century. Longer in Asia and elsewhere. Men and women remained within the tribe or extended family even after having children. Resources were shared and so were duties such as childcare. You can still see this model in most tribal societies today. If you go really far back in…
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 06:58 PM
2

What happens to those individuals who get what they want? Women who marry younger partners die earlier: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100512062631.html Correlation is not causation OP. You can't just encourage/discourage variable X and assume it will change variable Y. Also from the article: "Hence, "health selection" can't be true for women; healthy women apparently don't go chasing after younger men."
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 05:26 PM
2

What do you think will happen without regulation? I see people say this but it's never totally clear to me how they envision the decline. Incel uprising? Just a slow die out?
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 05:06 PM
1

The greatest period of success, where we see exponential development, has been over the last 100 years and is concurrent with chipping away at those roles. I doubt the two are closely related, but the relationship does look like: as society gets better, traditional gender roles lessen.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 04:10 PM
2

So they have plenty of good options You don't get to decide if they are good options - only the people choosing to date them do. If they're not selected for a date then by definition they are not good options. This is why "options" is a bad measure for dating success. You must show actual success at dating - real dates, real mate selection - not the "option" that a date with an unwanted person might have happened.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 03:11 PM
2

It is not, unless framed by the thirstiest of incels. Perhaps even the tiniest drop of attention from an obese woman with a horse face would be a success for you? Most normal people do not consider getting unwanted romantic attention as dating success. Success is making romantic connections with people who you are attracted to.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 02:24 PM
1

The UAE and Qatar are both examples of wealthy countries that are miserable and backwards despite their wealth, due to clinging to outdated gender roles. China is a socialist state that has explicitly promoted egalitarianism since the 1950s. It literally practices what is called "state feminism."
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 02:20 PM
4

The roles come from evolution "Traditional gender roles" in the West don't come from evolution and are only a few hundred years old. Evolutionarily most men did not reproduce and did not form nuclear family units. About 30% of human males historically contributed to the gene pool and if you were another male at any point pre-civilization you lived in an extended family group and helped raise those other men's children.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 01:59 PM
8

Even poorer non Western countries with less rigid gender roles are nicer places to live.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 01:56 PM
10

There is a reason why successful societies are the way they are The most successful societies are not the ones with the most traditional gender roles. TRP/incels/etc are always in a constant panic about the decline of Western civilization for abandoning these roles, despite the West being the most successful across many measures. You can find tons of traditional gender roles adhered to very strictly by people living in huts however.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 01:52 PM
1

Serial monogamy is natural in humans and has always been the dominant mating strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 01:48 PM
2

"Options" is another question entirely and not a measure of dating success. This is a good example of goalpost shifting, however.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 01:44 PM
6

How many feminist groups out there are protesting boys This is kind of like asking how many environmentalist groups are protesting second amendment rights.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 10:04 AM
0

How can you be less economically attractive if apparently, men are making more than women? It doesn't make sense. Because men making more on average is a group statistic. It does not mean that you as an individual are economically appealing.
/r/PurplePillDebate31/07/21 09:59 AM
9

You know what are actually the two main traits that influence the most frequency of casual sex? A high extroversion score and low aggreeableness score; those are things you can work on. As a few people have said, personality is actually very stable and heritable. Also, this is a correlation. Upping your extraversion and lowering your agreeableness does not mean you will get more casual sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 10:42 PM
2

I'm not a woman so unfortunately I can't be another Internet anecdote for your ideology. However I can tell you that receiving an unsolicited message on a dating app from a balding little man in a Trump hat posing with a fish is not a good measure of dating success.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 08:18 PM
–

Smegma Male, extra mysterious.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 07:36 PM
–

FDS is a community like TRP filled with people who have performed poorly and struggled in relationships. Almost by definition it's a bad place to get advice. If you want solid relationship advice find people who aren't perpetually single.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 07:09 PM
7

And barking at me like a dog from across the parking lot When you learn to flirt from Tom & Jerry cartoons.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 07:07 PM
3

The idea that physical attractiveness does not or should not matter at all is the only real "blue pill" belief imo. It's the one thing TRP characterizes as blue pill bullshit that is actually a common pop relationship myth.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 07:05 PM
–

Can I be a sigma male if I only own a fedora but not a katana? Do I need to own both or is either of them enough?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 07:03 PM
2

For one, how do you define "inequality" when it comes to dating? OP's measure is likes on dating apps.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 06:58 PM
1

It's easier to change your looks than to become a billionaire I bet. Lose weight, hop on gear, plastic surgery, hair transplant.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 04:25 PM
11

Getting more unwanted messages from losers on apps isn't a measure of relationship or dating success. Your entire point was founded on something very flimsy.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 04:12 PM
6

Nobody is entitled to anything. Not money, affection, food, housing, clothes, or a job to support themselves. Just saying this shit over and over in every response doesn't make it true. Society determines what people are entitled to and enforces that entitlement by law. This is why you can't just leave a baby to die of exposure on a hill and say: "Well it wasn't entitled to my resources."
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 03:51 PM
6

Just like economic inequality, one group (women) has disproportionately way more success than the other (men). How are women more successful? Most relationships are monogamous and partner count for men and women is similar, with men having more on average. Women getting more Tinder messages is not a measure of dating success. Also, the massive inequality in the capitalist economy is far more disparate than the dating world. Most people are in relationships, most people have just one partner. The…
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 03:46 PM
-1

Common sense says you're wrong.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 03:34 PM
1

Dunking on the incels.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 09:48 AM
2

Left leg below the knee wouldn't matter to me. An arm might matter more.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/07/21 09:46 AM
6

The most common height barrier here in germany is 5'11 (180 cm) which is less than in the US eventhough it's literally average height. Even above US average height.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/21 02:58 PM
33

I live in West Europe and have lived briefly in Eastern Europe. I don't think it's much different from the USA tbh. The biggest thing may be fewer overweight people. Perhaps that would make you less competitive, vs merely being able to put yourself in the top 20% by not being fat. On the flip side it means you have a bigger dating pool to choose from assuming you don't want to date fat people. Edit - reading some of the "if you kiss/go on a date it's implied you're boyfriend/girlfriend" comments…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/07/21 11:58 AM
0

The way people interpret the data conflates correlation and causation. Virginity predicting X doesn't mean that by remaining a virgin you will get X. So no, it shouldn't be seen as a strategy or something you can do to get a good outcome.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 09:11 PM
4

No it doesn't. It doesn't quantify it at all. It does not even measure arousal or attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 08:41 PM
1

Being "as visual as men" doesn't debunk a single thing she said. Attractiveness is not univariate. This research does not claim to show that factors like personality don't influence attractiveness.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 07:39 PM
4

And I will also say, that most, MOST men in dating apps have AWFUL pictures. This probably explains the issue a lot. In research on attractiveness pictures of normalized faces are used. Faces in OLD are all over the place.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 07:35 PM
1

which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number. Exactly. The average requires the sum of the set: it's not a number you pick ahead of time. A five on your scale is not the average of your dataset just because it's the midpoint of your scale.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 06:38 PM
1

Even if all the photos were simply normalized where it was: same face, same expression, same background you'd probably see less of a skewed response. This is why scientists who use faces for anything use databases of normalized photos like the Chicago Face Database. A bunch of selfies with faces, full body shots, with props and cars, different lighting, other people in the pictures, etc. introduces so many new variables you don't even know how much of the attractiveness rating is based on indivi…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 05:47 PM
2

iirc this was a large dataset but not half of the people in the USA. The size of the dataset isn't super important, because it could be a literal half of the US population and still have 80% of users below average. The issue is self selection bias. First the self selection bias of single people seeking out dates online. This excludes attractive people in relationships. Second is the self selection bias of OKCupid users who chose to rate people. As opposed to a random or nonrandom sample where th…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 05:40 PM
1

This sub loves evo psych, at least when it isn't claiming research is a feminist conspiracy
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 04:37 PM
1

So this is also a question of methodology and measurement. "Average" attractiveness is defined by the measured group mean. If you let a group of women subjectively rate men on a scale of 1-10 and 80% are below 5 this does not mean your raters are wrong. Average is whatever the mean of your ratings are. If it's 2 then 2 is the average of your sample, even if it goes from 1-10. The scale itself does not define what average is and isn't. You can't determine averageness pre hoc without measuring it.…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 01:44 PM
5

Wrong. It would be impossible for the population to have 80% below average. This does not mean it's impossible for OKCupid - a non random sample - to have 80% of it's users below average.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 01:18 PM
8

That's statistically impossible. It's not impossible, given that OKCupid is not a representative sample.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 01:14 PM
2

I think it's going to get downvoted by the blue pillars a lot because it destroys their narrative. How? What narrative? This data showed that men and women message at similar rates with variability in attractiveness. It didn't support the 80/20 rule. It seemed like a lot of what OP said here was similar to what Lilith said.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 12:13 PM
19

The real and accurate interpretation is no woman is ever truly satisfied with a man below the top 20%. This isn't even an interpretations of the data, it's just a guess. There is no measure of satisfaction or sexual outcomes at all in this data.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/07/21 11:58 AM
6

Who in their right mind hears "I like ice cream" and DOESN'T immediately assume I mean I like to EAT ice cream? When you only love the abstract Platonic form of ice cream
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/21 07:22 PM
1

When did incels start framing not being able to get a girlfriend as not wanting to settle? Unless you're in that top ten percent of "Chads" how are you settling at all?
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/21 05:15 PM
–

Troll epistemology
/r/PurplePillDebate27/07/21 01:57 PM
3

They're all different studies so some could be contradictory, a few in this review are. The length of relationship negatively correlating with sexual satisfaction and being in a relationship positively correlating isn't inherently contradictory. It does seem like those variables would both be present concurrently and working against each other. Is it really a prediction or just a correlation? I'm very curious about such a claim. Correlations are sort of inherently predictions. When reporting a c…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 10:29 PM
–

Interesting stuff. I suppose it's kind of intuitive that attractiveness would predict orgasm. I can't Imagine it being easier for a woman to orgasm with an unattractive partner. I see they also found relationship length also predicted orgasm to the same degree. And male self-reported dominance negatively predicted orgasm. So the men who thought they were very dominant were also the ones who were least likely to give their partners orgasms.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 10:13 PM
2

Yep iirc
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 09:44 PM
–

2)Women`s ability to cum is HEAVILY correlated with her partners physical attractivness which is way out of mens control. What is this belief based on? I just posted a lit review of 191 studies and there was no mention of this at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 08:47 PM
7

oof very wrong. Sexual pleasure incentives sex and mate selection.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 08:39 PM
1

Low IQ response just confirming the research.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 08:38 PM
4

Yea idu how people are claiming that someone is gonna enjoy sex just because the person they are having sex with is good looking. Like that’s not how sex works. Most of the men here have never had sex, or had very few partners, per the demographic survey. They don't have the experience of sex with a conventionally attractive person that was bad. Probably basing a lot of their sexuality on porn too, where it's purely visual for them.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 05:34 PM
2

Chances are 50/50% to get a regular sexual life if married. This is actually a much more nuanced position than RP's "all men in relationships are beta bucks who don't get enthusiastic sex." Edit - One thing that would really make this number meaningful would be to compare it with men and women not in relationships. iirc married couples still report more frequent and more satisfying sex
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 04:24 PM
7

I don't think it's based on personal experience. The demographic survey would indicate men here aren't having enough sex to have that experience. A lot of the men claiming "betas are having unfulfilling starfish sex" are actual virgins.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 03:55 PM
1

“Watch what they do, not what they say” is such a BS concept in this subreddit, because it never gets applied to men. I see men here claim that ”Beta males get crappy unenthusiastic sex”, but that only comes up when it's proven that most men have consistent sex, typically in a relationship. Yep there is a constant shifting of goalposts here. It's really the way that conspiracy theorists think tbh. Any normal relationship is just assumed to be "beta" and unfulfilling with no evidence. Since aroun…
/r/PurplePillDebate26/07/21 03:38 PM
6

Since I found TRP I have started to improve my physical appearance, started my facial care routine, grew a bit of a beard (which I adore) and is doing well with the money. If all you take from TRP is wash your face this is very good. And it's conventional advice you could have found without TRP. Kind of reminds me of Jordan Peterson telling people to clean their rooms.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 06:16 PM
13

In fairness there's legitimate research showing that men grade women on a bell curve, but women rate all but the top 20% of men as unattractive. If this is based on the OKCupid data, it's possible that the attractiveness of men on the site is not normally distributed. If it's mostly unattractive men using the site we should expect ratings to skew low.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 03:02 PM
-3

Women do prefer taller men, but this is not the same thing as a 5"11 height cutoff. A majority of men in relationships are not 5"11. Female preferences for height correlate with female height. See the height distributions of married men and women: https://familyinequality.files.wordpress.com/2019/11/nh1.jpg
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 02:31 PM
1

Yep. Being older and having the experience to make good relationship decisions, to know what you want and such.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 01:41 PM
5

I mean assortative mating would say otherwise. People pick partners similar to their own level of attractiveness. 9 and 10 women, if you observe, especially in mid 20's and below, are for the large part single I don't observe that. I observe the opposite. More attractive people are less likely to be single. Pretty sure research shows a linear relationship between attractiveness and relationship status as well but I'd have to dig it up.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 01:37 PM
22

As a general pattern in mate selection we date people who are similar to ourselves, similar to our families and similar to past partners. Both in behavior and appearance. This probably explains a lot of why people end up in the same situation over and over. Even abuse victims often had more than one abusive partner and family abuse. (I have never dated women like you describe in the OP. I feel like my own dating experiences have been consistently good over my life. When I see men who all adhere …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 01:31 PM
12

You have to realize these "studies" are all published in feminist journals. The Institute for Family Studies is literally a conservative think-tank. Also I don't see in the link you gave me where it says women demand men be 5"11.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 01:24 PM
16

Good majority of women are demanding 5'11" and up Where is this figure from?
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 12:11 PM
2

I think if all those factors applied, they would probably be in the study. The researchers didn't examine any of those issues as variables, so they couldn't be in this study. If all you look at is age/alcohol/video games that's all you're going to have data on.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 12:05 PM
2

I doubt they "forgot". More like didn't find any evidence. They didn't measure any variables regarding women's preferences.
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 12:01 PM
2

"Generally the consumers of romance novels are late middle aged to elderly women" I wouldn't guess that, but do you have data? OP said the average age for romance novel readers was 35-39
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 12:32 AM
2

There are more limitations with this than normal research methodology. The fact that this is a self-selected group means you can't assume generalizability. The age group is mostly old, we don't know education level for romance novel readers based on Kindle owners. The big limitation is ecological validity however. This shows what kind of fictional stories women who read these stories like. It doesn't show anything about actual mate selection. You'd do better with a research sample that looks at …
/r/PurplePillDebate25/07/21 12:28 AM
6

I posted on this topic like a day ago. Most research on the dual mate hypothesis (what you describe) has failed to replicate. Specifically the research on the effects of the menstrual cycle as well, I see one of the studies you posted is on that. https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/op3r1d/research_dual_mating_hypothesis_studies_fail_to/
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/21 07:13 PM
9

Feminist is too broad, but FDS specifically should be a no-brainer. You can go on the main community and see that they generally dislike men. I have said it about RP/mgtow etc. as well. Participating in ideologies where you're hostile to the opposite sex should be a clear red flag.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/21 07:07 PM
-1

Yeah I hadn't seen "pretend to want an LTR for sex" as an RP strategy afaik but since I'm not not an RP guy I had to double check
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/21 07:03 PM
9

TRP advises men to do what works. So overtly telling women that you pretty much want a FWB situation will yield you less results than stringing her along with the proverbial carrot on a stick. RP tells you to lie and pretend to want a relationship when you do not, in order to get sex? Just to confirm, RP men this is what you believe?
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/21 04:32 PM
4

Interview the drones
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/21 03:22 PM
3

The men rated the fat girl as least attractive, she also rated herself as least attractive. The girls rankings seemed to be all over the place, I think maybe because they wanted to spare each others feelings.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/21 02:18 PM
5

isn't the whole idea of pills other than blue to recognize injustices of a dating market I think this reflects two sides of the manosphere: one that wants to date women and one that does not. "Be an HVM" is dating advice. I posted a large study a couple of days ago that showed how the manosphere has shifted away from PUA and toward MGTOW/incels so this kind of reflects that.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/21 02:08 PM
1

There is a large part of right wing politics that has embraced conspiracy theories I think I would have an especially hard time dating into. Even if political disagreements weren't a deal breaker, this is like disagreeing on what is real or not. Things like who won the election, is Q real, do vaccines work. Everything being "fake news" except for fringe conspiracy sites. It would be a fundamental disagreement on what is real and how knowledge is acquired. As opposed to questions like: should we …
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/21 05:18 AM
5

So what this man made him a "bad boy?" What you described sounds kind of like the opposite. An insecure guy who doted on you and bought you things.
/r/PurplePillDebate24/07/21 04:58 AM
7

I don't think negative stereotypes about mental disorders shows that women don't find feminine personality traits attractive. There is a lot of research examining the question directly (cited in the OP) that shows they do.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 08:55 PM
2

This is the title of the article and there is no cross-cultural measure. The study does not say this or even examine the question.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 08:16 PM
8

This probably has more to do with your experience as a conservative OP. Unless you're a hardcore QAnon type you probably don't believe Dems are drinking baby blood. However it's more mainstream to believe conservatives are basically lite fascists. That's going to be a deal-breaker for a lot of people. I would not date a woman who supported Trump for example because I think it would reflect on her character in a very deep way.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 08:09 PM
2

Trades on average and by median make less than bachelor's degree holders. The top ten paid and fastest growing bachelor's degrees make more than the top ten trades. There is always someone saying they make a ton, but for most it isn't the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 06:26 PM
11

These numbers are just based on men subscribing to Ashley Madison however, a website for seeking affairs. So access probably doesn't explain it. I kind of wondered if they had less access and that's why they were signing up to find an affair online.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 05:59 PM
2

Because they are less intelligent perhaps: More intelligent men are more likely to value monogamy and sexual exclusivity than less intelligent men. https://doi.org/10.1177%2F0190272510361602
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 05:01 PM
6

Hidden costs of male beauty: Steroids 100-$300 Finasteride/Dutasteride 30-$50 Minoxidil $20 Cialis 20-$50 Gym membership $50 Edit: (women if you want muscles and working pp you must split the cost)
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 01:52 PM
3

Pull up in a van and offer them candy.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 01:48 PM
-2

That's true and a good example of how AF/BB isn't very solid. Per the dual mating hypothesis, the short term man should be undesirable for LTRs. He's only desirable for a short period of time during the woman's menstrual cycle.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 01:40 PM
32

Problem is if you look good with makeup but not without it. Most of your time in a relationship is going to be spent without makeup. Remember the big thread about why men ghost or cut contact after sex? Add finding out someone looks totally different without Saturday night makeup to that list. In some cases it can be borderline catfishing tbh.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 08:48 AM
7

Me and my girlfriend are fitness people and in sweats or gym clothes a lot of the time. It really doesn't matter with attractive people. We go out like this and are still usually the most attractive couple in the room. OP used the example of Cardi B. It's conventionally unattractive women like this who really need a lot of work to look good. Fact is that at the end of the day the makeup comes off. If you need $500 of products to look attractive you're already aiming at a lower tier of man. Fake …
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 08:19 AM
2

ok taliboomer
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 07:54 AM
1

I'm not sure how the title goes with the legislation in the Reason article. Refusing to have sex is not a deception. Being married is not an agreement to sex on demand. I don't think this legislation is going to amount to much either. It would be tested in court. All this post really says is men are triggered by the idea they can't lie to get sex + OP wants to be able to force women to have sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 07:49 AM
11

From lashes($100-120), hair($120-200), nails($100-150) clothes, contacts, skincare($90) waxing and vagacials ($115). Actually you don't need to spend anywhere near that to be beautiful. And if you're not beautiful then buying all that shit isn't going to help much either. Legit if you don't look attractive in a pair of sweatpants with your hair down and no makeup then you're probably not anywhere near as attractive as you think you are. I mean look at Cardi B. Cardi B is famous, but she is not c…
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 06:31 AM
1

several studies report the same findings. This will happen if you run enough similar studies.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 06:24 AM
1

Imagine having an ideology built entirely on anecdotes and believing this.
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 06:17 AM
2

How would progressives do this?
/r/PurplePillDebate23/07/21 06:14 AM
4

Last I went on Tinder was 3 years ago. I got maybe 15-20 matches a day, around 2-3 dates per week. No profile info except my university. I didn't chat online more than 1-2 days in most cases, immediately pushed for meet ups. I took a ton of selfies and used an app called Photofeeler to let women rate them. Then used the ones rated best. Supposedly mine were regularly in the top 2% of photos on the app but I don't believe it. I also used Tinder Gold and only swiped on women who were attractive to…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 08:17 PM
37

Studies have also shown women are attracted to sociopathic narcissistic men, even when controlling for appearance. How do you feel about the methodology of this study: The mean age of the group is 19 years old and DT traits were approximated with a fictional vignette. There were no photos of men shown. It's based entirely on choosing between a fictional low DT and high DT self description. I think this would lack ecological validity. It can't account for any negative traits or behaviors associat…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 08:04 PM
2

Yep the researchers note that banning in this paper, you can see how .co spiked on the graph following that ban.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 07:21 PM
0

If you strip it down to the science you don't have a pill any more. It's just science. RP is an ideology. If research doesn't support an RP doctrine it's "lol studies," anecdotes, personal experiences and so on. You wouldn't have much left if you took that away. The dominant epistemology in RP isn't empirical.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 06:20 PM
18

I think every woman has at least one experience where they were being nice and it was mistaken for attraction. Since RP is almost entirely founded on anecdotes, RP men should really be able to relate to this.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 04:28 PM
1

What makes you think it exists?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 04:19 PM
4

Article in Nature: Many sexual adverse effects of finasteride are attributable to a nocebo effect The authors conclude that many of the sexual adverse effects associated with finasteride can be attributed to a nocebo effect, and that this finding should influence patient management. Men who were told the drug had sexual side effects experienced them, men who weren't told didn't. There are entire forums online dedicated to finasteride conspiracy theories and pure hysteria around this one drug. Th…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 04:11 PM
1

I'd be surprised if a lot of the post finasteride syndrome stuff doesn't turn out to be nocebo.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 01:44 PM
8

When a single woman is approached by a single man, men typically will always look for a potential partner rather than just a female friend. How does this go with the title? Is a man unable to respect someone he wants as a partner? Is not wanting to be friends disrespectful?
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 11:32 AM
0

Seems like paternity tests should be automatic tbh. Surprised they aren't at this point.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 03:21 AM
3

This is a good observation. If cuckolding were as common as some people seem to believe we should expect a paternity crisis. Doesn't seem to really be happening. I just posted a large review that noted how most of the research supporting the dual mating hypothesis has failed to replicate. The lack of a paternity crisis is probably a real life example of how very few women are actually forming extra-partner pairings and becoming pregnant.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 02:59 AM
2

What a fucking boomer take, that dumbass is probably still on dial up internet using floppy disc's and shit. lol a desk full of AOL free minutes cds
/r/PurplePillDebate22/07/21 01:28 AM
9

Sleeping with people is actually considered a very bad way to network. Sleeping with anyone you can get a job for, a promotion, work alongside, etc is a huge risk.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 07:52 PM
11

Some examples: I think The Wall and AF/BB are wrong, AWALT lacks nuance and will probably be counterproductive for men in dating, the Red Pill / Blue Pill dichotomy is an ingroup / outgroup framing that radicalizes men. Sometimes specific examples of RP dating advice are bad, such as telling men to emulate Dark Triad personality traits. Telling men they should be spinning plates probably isn't great since this kind of sexual promiscuity doesn't predict good outcomes individually or for relations…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 07:36 PM
5

Yep I always felt RP dating advice had a pretty solid core when it was like "do x" without the ideology.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 07:21 PM
3

Use soap and deodorant.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 07:20 PM
4

Don't be fat. Get braces and take care of your teeth. Don't let yourself go bald. Lift and get muscular. Don't stop your education at high school, go for a master's degree minimum. Learn hobbies women are involved in and get really good at them. Do enough interesting and exciting things to make yourself a very interesting person: travel a lot, live in a foreign country, learn a new language to fluency. Learn improv, comedy or some kind of performance art. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't take dru…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 07:18 PM
4

It's treated as a stigma in the psych research alongside interracial relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 05:33 PM
5

Stealth Theta male exposed
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 03:36 PM
2

uwu wolves
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 03:16 PM
1

What makes you a beta?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 03:06 PM
1

I don't think it does
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 03:04 PM
1

Lambda males have flat affect and emotionless shark eyes.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 02:36 PM
3

Pussy futures down 600 points.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 02:31 PM
3

You can plug it into a sample size calculator and test it. A sample size of 350 will give you an estimate of 360M with an error rate of 5%. 1068 will give you an error rate of 3%. 2401 is would bring it down to 2%. See also: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/howcan-a-poll-of-only-100/
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 12:07 PM
1

And I blame the younger generations and their everyone gets a trophy upbringing. It could be internalized, but most of the manosphere dudes who feel entitled to a relationship are the same ones who complain about participation trophies.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:57 AM
8

Doesn't sound like a measure of enthusiasm at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:49 AM
6

It doesn't need to be exact but we could get a pretty good estimate. A representative survey of 1000 can give you an estimate of the entire US population with a margin of error of like 2%.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:49 AM
5

None of this shows men in relationships don't get enthusiastic sex. Let me know if you find something that does directly address the question however.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:47 AM
2

Without using the specific terminology: how many men feel undesired by their partners and used solely for money.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:45 AM
44

I am 3/4 sigma male and 1/4 Irish.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:44 AM
4

How do you know?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:43 AM
2

It's quantifiable isn't it? What percentage of couples have sex <1mo, 6mo, 1yr, etc?
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:42 AM
8

Not being attracted to your partner sounds pretty bleak. I don't think this describes most relationships however.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:38 AM
1

alpha qualities have nothing to do with LTR. AF/BB is about the fact women settle with men they aren't that much attracted with on a sexual, primal level Physical attractiveness is the top variable predicting mate selection in LTRs. You don't seem to get what AF/BB actually is. I'm a research psychologist and I understand the actual dual mating strategy very well. I have noticed that AF/BB is kind of a bastardization of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 11:35 AM
2

willing to infantilse adult women Yep. What I really dislike also is that it strips agency from adult women. One poster in these comments said the age of consent should be raised to 25. Like really they want to criminalize adult relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 10:36 AM
1

they are lying "They lie" is a low IQ response. You can't prove it, it's unfalsifiable. It's science vs Internet ideology on a sub where >50% of the men have never had sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:50 AM
1

Are we supposed to buy that women who say no to sex are suddenly interested if the guy has put a ring on it? You think if a woman won't have sex with a stranger they wouldn't have sex with the same person once they got to know them? Most people will not accept a complete stranger's offer for sex. There are no guarantees, which makes this study useless for major life decisions. This is literally true of all research. A finding will never apply to 100% of the people, nor will you be able to predic…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:43 AM
1

An average of two years. The max would be the top of the range.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:39 AM
2

I've heard ridiculous claims from women on FDS about "young women " in their late 20s and even 30s being "taken advantage of" by an older man and frankly it's ridiculous. Yep the age gap stigma exists at all ages. A 60 year old man with a 35 year old woman would still face a ton of stigma.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:35 AM
3

One of the reasons why I advocate to raise the legal age to 25 lol 🤡
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:32 AM
1

because a 30 year old man can manipulate the SHIT out of a 20 year old girl. How can a 30 year old man manipulate a 20 years old in ways they can't manipulate a 30 year old? Specific examples I mean.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:29 AM
0

I think it takes a seriously fucked up individual to do something like that. It describes the literal majority of relationships throughout human history.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:28 AM
1

But men beat up other men who date their family members even when there isn't an age gap. Really we should disregard whatever message this uncle anecdote is trying to send, since most men will never assault their adult daughters boyfriends. It's an unhinged thing to do.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:25 AM
3

Literally a majority of the world.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:23 AM
4

They'd feel the same way if the daughter is 25 and the man is 40, or if the woman is 35 and the man is 60. There is more going on with the age gap stigma than protecting a young adult from predators.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:22 AM
5

Yep. Women have almost always guessed a little bit taller than I am.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:18 AM
9

The whole 6 foot requirement is super prevalent on the internet, but I rarely notice it as a deal breaker in real life. Yep. People don't even estimate height accurately when it's outside a few inches of their own. A 5'4 woman isn't going to notice a difference between 5'10 and 6'.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:17 AM
2

Weird I see tiny little couples walking around together all the time.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:14 AM
2

they are lying This is the go-to excuse on this sub to deny science really. Any time anything is posted you have a ready-made and unfalsifiable excuse to deny it. Same with the "fake news" and conspiracy theory crowd.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:09 AM
1

How did I arrive at this conclusion? Women. Is this based on your own experiences dating women or observation? I ask because from the recent sub demographics most men here have no sexual experience.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:07 AM
1

How many women would admit AF/BB? How many women would admit that they only have two types of relationships with men: Partner and Lover. So you don't think that AF/BB is the actual dual-mating strategy observed in evolutionary psychology then? Most of the "alpha" qualities are just as important in LTRs, the only difference is that the importance of resources goes way up. It's not a partner/lover dichotomy. Hard to tell sometimes if RP was suppose to be basing AF/BB on the dual mating strategy or…
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 08:04 AM
1

easily debunked with a tinder account. Just saying it doesn't make it so. The only research on Tinder I'm aware of that measured sexual outcomes found that women and men hook up at the same rate.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 07:53 AM
1

Low IQ post. Imagine just regurgitating "AWALT whores." 🤡
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 07:48 AM
1

All of the participants in this study are married. This is about the wives perceptions of commitment, so there is individual variation between the couples. In some marriages there is more or less perceived commitment.
/r/PurplePillDebate21/07/21 07:45 AM
3

Does majority of RP/MGTOW men really actively hate women? Maybe for MGTOW. Hard to like women and want nothing to do with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 11:28 PM
1

someone who sees their career as the most important thing in life. They're borderline, if not totally consumed with climbing the corporate ladder. I feel like this is bad for a relationship since it doesn't leave any time for a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 10:08 PM
2

The top dudes don't give a shit. Weird how wealthy people usually marry other wealthy people.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 10:05 PM
6

I think the reason that they don't want a high powered career woman is because they would not be equal to her. It's really a very unequal match for the man and the woman.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 10:04 PM
7

Guess I really want to be a psychopathic drug dealing lawyer or cop, as do most Americans. Truly the American Dream.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 10:01 PM
0

Women are super hypergamous when you define everything as hypergamy.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 08:45 PM
2

No one should assume from this data that going out and making friends will lead to relationships. That would be confusing correlation and causation. We can see from the data that friendships often lead to romance, but it doesn't show that it's a viable dating strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 07:40 PM
1

Did you have this same complaint for the survey on the rise of male sexlessness? Ideology. RP people will always cite studies using self report methodology if they think it agrees. Only when the study disagrees will they be like: "we can't trust it."
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 07:38 PM
2

It'd be very interesting to know how the relationship is perceived at the beginning by each gender, and how that's different, and then how it changes over time. This is kind of addressed. 12% said they intentionally because friends with their partner because they were attracted, 18% said the partner intentionally became their friend because the partner was attracted, and 70% said neither and became attracted later. They didn't break it down by gender unfortunately, so that ~18% could be any make…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 07:25 PM
1

People like the idea that it was more then just a dirty hookup from a sketchy app, I don't think believing something like this is consistent with the data, since almost all of the friends-first group reported no attraction and no romantic interest. We'd have to believe most people were dating people they were not interested in or attracted to for a period of 18 months on average before forming a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 07:13 PM
1

If you actually read the study mechanics, they coded responses inclusively. This is true, but the average number of codes per story is 1.2. Meeting online does not overshadow all of the other responses combined, only individually. More importantly, it doesn't tell us that a majority of those other meetings were not friends first / had no romantic intention. The question was never how people met. It was if they began as friends or began as romantic interests.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 07:08 PM
-3

vs. redpill "be the best version of yourself." I Googled this exact phrase + dating and it pulled up a ton of conventional dating advice. I think this is an example of RP taking credit for conventional advice most people know. Basically what OP said.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 06:47 PM
3

This is four more than most men here. I unironically give this post a little bit more credit since it's at least based on an experience. A lot of beliefs about women here are just made up.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 06:42 PM
2

The first three at least should be ok imo. Dunno if BlackPill crosses the line. Do the second topic, I was thinking about posting something similar actually.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 06:35 PM
0

This study actually addresses a lot of this. The meta analysis found most of the literature did not examine friends-first relationships. What we actually see here is a form of bias or asymmetry in publication that could make it seem as if this is not a common pattern. I don't think it's correct to say this goes against any kind of consensus. This is meta analysis and for it to reach this conclusion most of the studies it included had data that showed this. So this isn't an independent result tha…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 04:38 PM
2

So yeah if this study is overweight for boomers and gen x because they outnumber everyone else, It's actually a young student sample.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 03:31 PM
2

Lack of parental consultation is one of the major causes of modern pair-bonding dysfunction. mate selection was heavily a function of the patriarch's wishes "I want mommy and daddy to assign me a girlfriend." Liberal, progressive thinking does not exist(or persist) in the natural world Neither does mommy and daddy assigning you a mate.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 03:15 PM
2

"You don't love me if you don't put a ring on it", or "I guess I'll start seeing other guys since we're not exclusive" or even "I'm breaking up with you unless you propose". I think you'd have a hard time showing coercion with these examples. Coercion usually means forcing or preventing someone from exercising a legal right (or to do something illegal). "Marry me or we break up" is just presenting a choice.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 01:16 PM
1

how often do you REALLY come across highly materialistic, entitled Karens when trying to date? Almost never in my experience. That said I think it's pretty clear that most men and society in general view it as a negative trait. "Gold-digging" is one of the the mainstream framings. For red pill enthusiasts who preach this stuff on the daily, I highly doubt your autistic audience (no offense) will meet an entitled Karen or Stacey because she won't look their way. Right. They're not basing it on pe…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 01:07 PM
1

I'm not sure men can have a longer life span by getting married. That seems to assume a causal relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 12:57 PM
35

I posted this study a few days ago. There wasn't a difference in how men and women reported this iirc. They both said friends first at a similar rate. A partial limitation was that "friends" in all of the samples except for one was a choice between basically a stranger and a known person. So it was the whole range from acquaintances to BFFs. In the one sample that did distinguish across categories (acquaintance/good friend/etc) the number of "friends first" relationships dropped down to 40% and …
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 12:51 PM
8

Most men don't agree at all. The degree of your belief is a borderline phobia. Most men have sex with and form relationships with women who are not virgins.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 09:56 AM
5

the mere thought of another man's penis being inside the woman I love being so incredibly repulsive, and devastating, and leaving such a massive pit in my stomach, whether it happened yesterday or 20 years ago. Rationally you must know that there is no difference between a vagina that has had a penis in it and one that hasn't. This is like believing your hand is permanently dirty because you touched shit once.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 09:54 AM
1

All things being equal, I'm not sure it even matters - everything else is equal right? You'd have to believe there is some inherent benefit to virginity independent of personality and behavior, the way religious people view virginity. My first guess would be she is religious, but you said she isn't. I took a woman home from a bar once. She gave me head and let me do whatever - but not fuck. She said "we will probably never have sex" and I was like "lol wtf why?" Religion. She was waiting for mar…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 09:48 AM
1

Most men don't want to feel as if they are being used for money. That contributes to the socially negative attitude to "gold-digging." Do women similarly dislike being desired for being attractive? Perhaps somewhat, if made to feel that your looks or sexuality is the only desirable thing about you. Not to the same extent or in the same way. Men and women both want to be desired for being physically attractive. I see the FDS crowd here in the comments. I think there probably is a disconnect betwe…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 09:38 AM
3

Behavior geneticists contend that the rough rule of thumb when it comes to the determinants of child development is 50-0-50, that is, roughly 50% of the variance in personality, behavior, and other traits is heritable (influenced by genes), roughly 0% by the shared environment (what happens within the family and is experienced by all siblings), and roughly 50% by the nonshared environment (what happens inside and outside of the family, not shared by siblings). https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/…
/r/PurplePillDebate20/07/21 12:26 AM
4

What about not a virgin, but little relationship experience by mid 30s? Like if you have gone so long with little dating/relationship,or sexual,experience,how fucked are you? I was wondering this too, I don't really know. Yes, I am in therapy currently and we've only kind of scratched the surface on this. You're probably ahead of the game so to speak. When I was reading about life stages and developmental deficits it did say therapy can get you past them. I don't think it's so deterministic that…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 11:26 PM
15

Parents actually don't directly influence their children's behavior very much beyond an early age. Around the time a child starts to go to school, non-shared environment becomes a stronger predictor of behavior than shared environment. Kind of counterintuitive since we assume parents have such a massive role in raising a child.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 10:30 PM
17

This is more amazing than the pig story actually.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 08:25 PM
2

Yep. I think the beard essentially introduces a new variable.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 07:35 PM
1

It wouldn't be as good as a video on the page I'm sure. Any time you have to get someone to click through people will drop off. Without having a good photo or something to hook them first who knows.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 07:31 PM
66

I'm not fundamentally disputing the Pig Woman Experiment, but I do wonder if some of the male responses were scams. There is an entire industry of fake male profiles that target really unattractive women online. They ask for money eventually. When I saw some of the responses in bad/broken English it made me remember that.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 07:30 PM
2

Pig woman is love, pig woman is life.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 07:25 PM
1

This is sort of true but misleading. The entire "not developed till 25" factoid has gotten super popular but has never been presented entirely correctly. The development of the prefrontal cortex isn't linear. You see way more development between 16-18 than you do from 20-25 for example. The real concern with late development is not that an 18-year-old adult is cognitively impaired. They are not. It's that the brain itself is vulnerable. "Teens process information with the amygdala" is a junk fra…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 07:14 PM
10

Interesting post and observation. An app built around the idea of 30-second introductory videos might actually work to get men into relationships. This makes me wonder if including a YouTube or Insta link in your profile is helpful.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 07:06 PM
3

Things like "women will leave you if you're a boring loser" and "women may come to regret promiscuity" are actually conventional beliefs.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 07:02 PM
2

Feels like there are more MGTOW/cels in this sub than RP people.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 06:53 PM
3

Vs a bad relationship sure. I would have a hard time believing anyone in a dating community views singleness as a success though. Kind of by virtue of being there it shows they'd like to have a partner.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 06:52 PM
2

I'm not an RP man and I would not date a woman who is on FDS. I do think the content shows a dislike of men. The strategy itself also seems very Machiavellian and classist. It has the typical us vs them mentality of radical online communities. Not just toward other men, but other women ("pickmeshas"). I have seen nothing but negative assessments of FDS from regular people who aren't affiliated at all with the manosphere. These include my colleagues, other research psychologists, who are men and …
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 06:26 PM
2

I eat 400-800g of ground beef per day. So at a minimum like 300lbs per year? You can do it bro I believe in you.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 05:26 PM
3

small sample size It might not be. You can't tell if a sample size is small this way. https://datadrivensecurity.info/blog/posts/2015/Nov/samplesize/ In fact at 100 people this is an above average sample size per the Cohen data: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/21667745/ Using this sample size calculator you can see how a sample size of 100 allows you to generalize to the population of all white men (150M) with a CI of 9. https://www.surveysystem.com/sscalc.htm
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 05:06 PM
9

What do you think of this? This is a great way to go to jail. Also I feel like this is the go-to of inferior men. You can't command respect or attention with any single other trait or behavior? Alrighty then, beat them into submission. We actually see this with some animals, including some primates, where the less dominant males become highly aggressive.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 04:56 PM
1

A quality picture is actually a much better representation of how you actually look than a low quality picture. I feel it. Seems like I always look worse in a photo. I have to take 50 before I capture one I like.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 04:51 PM
0

I remember reading some advice page when I did OLD that cautioned on professional photos for that reason too.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 04:50 PM
2

The photos men put on Tinder are terrible. I always felt I was never very photogenic and I spent a ton of time on my photos. Every time I met a woman off Tinder she said I looked better in real life than in my photos and that almost never happened with other men. That makes me think most people look worse in person, but it's just anecdotal. I do think if your photos look way better you're probably in catfish territory and setting yourself up for failure. Edit - If you guys want an OLD protip run…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 04:48 PM
2

103? Hilarious. Why?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 04:43 PM
5

The proper analogy with scientology in this discussion would be RP, since they are both considered extreme fringe beliefs by society at large. Every extremist thinks their tiny group is correct and society at large is broken.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 04:25 PM
2

I'm a man and most men don't have to hide extremist content they write online from their partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 03:32 PM
6

I'm a research psychologist, not the incel whisperer. I'm also a man who hasn't ever had any problem dating. I have limited sympathy for men who put barriers in their own way to success by brainwashing themselves with Internet ideology. That said, if you do go to a clinical psychologist for therapy because of dating or woman issues, I guarantee they will want you to look at this whole RP ideology as a cause of your problems.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 03:21 PM
5

Men are saying lower your standard aka "please fuck me" 🤡😆
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 02:56 PM
5

Low toxicity red pill
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 02:32 PM
3

The data supports this 100%. It's called pre selection, you have no clue what you're on about do you? Show me your "data" Actually an example of RP/PUA pseudoscience. Not the original research, but the way the ideology tries to apply it. You see a relationship between attractiveness and variable Y and think you can boost your attractiveness by boosting Y. That's a classic example of confusing correlation for causation. Pre-selection is multivariate. The reason men with options are more desirable…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 02:04 PM
9

Something else I would consider here: if you're not conventionally attractive then it matters even more. An attractive man may get a pass, but an average man less so. Especially relevant to this subs demographic I think.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 01:50 PM
5

This doesn't show women prefer an abusive man over one who is not. Ignoring the sample (female prison guards), this is would only show women prefer convicts more than men (male guards). Not that women prefer convicts over clean criminal records.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 01:48 PM
4

Cool story bro, but I'm one of the few men on here in a relationship who has never had a problem attracting women. Men who have never been able to form relationships, or who have dropped out of sexual relationships all together, are the last men I'd ever consult about masculinity or dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 01:42 PM
8

TRP preaches that when men cheat it doesn't count and that your wife will become more attracted to you if she has to fight other women for you. lol yep. Even if we don't label it as misogyny, it's bad and counterproductive advice. Imagine telling men to cheat on their wives to improve their marriage.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 01:38 PM
16

The only meaningful comparison is two men of equal attractiveness. If not, you're looking at confounding variables and an entirely different question. No one is saying physical attractiveness is unimportant. All things equal, women will prefer an attractive man whose brain hasn't been rotted by incel forums vs one whose has.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 01:34 PM
4

I know everyone here says the wall is “a revenge fantasy” blah blah blah. But it sure is hilarious to watch single moms with absolute shit lives attempt to crawl back to that guy who was “too nice” in college or post college just to see him be one of the “immature fuckboys” that pumps and dumps her. Revenge truly is a dish best served cold lol. If everyone around you is an asshole…. Well you know the rest. Aren't you confirming it here? You're basically like "yeah the revenge is great" and sayin…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 12:41 PM
18

There is a question of why so few men become radicalized incels despite all men experiencing normal dating rejection many times over the course of our lives. I do think these men probably started with some misogyny or some traits that predisposed them to the eventual radicalization. Also I've noticed some incels really haven't experienced much rejection. The two incel shooters Minassian and Rodgers for example had almost no real experience with rejection. They radicalized through a lot of observ…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 12:36 PM
5

Nope. It's an associative relationship, it cannot show a causal direction. Basic statistics, the more you know.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 12:12 PM
5

Do you really think people approach the other sex explicitly telling them that? Not usually, but I do think the beliefs come through in their behaviors. People who have internalized Internet ideology are going to let it slip out in normal interactions. Of course, some people do flat out state it. There are regularly posts on r/Tinder where some knucklehead is getting mocked for filling his profile with RP shit.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 12:03 PM
7

So your position is that women don't prefer a man who is not physically abusive over one who is? Based on these isolated anecdotes?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 11:52 AM
8

Not sure why OP purposefully switched the cause and effect. It's just an association, we can speculate about causal direction but we don't know. I do think it's bidirectional like the person you responded to said. Sexual frustration drives misogyny, but misogyny is also a great way to cockblock yourself.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 11:46 AM
9

Masculine is when you rinse your brain in Internet ideology that women find gross and fail to mate as a result.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 11:43 AM
4

If your inner belief is "women are bad, women hate me, but I still want to fuck these bitches", your subconscious is going to actively prevent you from succeeding. You will be unsure, fearful, nervous, creepy. It seems that most guys who harbor these beliefs can't even bring themselves to go out and try to meet women. 100% agree.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 11:37 AM
1

Yep. Three years. I've rarely ever been single at any point in my life.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 11:04 AM
7

Even full-blown man-hating feminists can find male partners. "Even." So you do understand that being a "full-blown man-hating feminist" is a point against someone. If they can find a partner it's despite that. Even tiny bald men find partners, too, but it does not mean that being a tiny bald man is desirable. Your wife similarly disagrees and loves you despite the ideology. Very common with partners who have embraced some kind of extremist ideology, but it doesn't really refute what I said. If s…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 11:03 AM
-1

In this post I see you refer to companionships with women and your bosses at work. I notice you don't mention a girlfriend or wife. Are you in a relationship?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 10:57 AM
15

A lot of the people that are angry and bitter no longer care about "being attractive to the opposite sex" Yes, this is mostly for people who still holding out hope that they will form a normal human relationship with a member of the opposite sex one day. If you've totally dropped out of human mating it doesn't really apply. You can be as repulsive or unattractive as you want and it doesn't matter.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 10:50 AM
8

Fact is that it doesn't matter if you view it as misogynistic or not. That's how the entire world outside of the little sliver of ideology views it. That's all it takes. Women see manosphere shit and associate it with losers and violence.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 10:22 AM
–

Men need to reframe "his" child tbh. That's not how humans evolved. Men donate sperm, women develop a child in their bodies. The entire burden of motherhood is on them. The drive to mother a child is entirely different from the male drive to reproduce. The decision to be a single mother is also borderline unhinged imo but there you have it. Lots of women really want babies. If they didn't, more human beings wouldn't exist. Lots of women put making a baby ahead of economic considerations, persona…
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 10:04 AM
4

BMI actually gives a pretty good estimate of when someone begins to look too skinny or too overweight.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 08:53 AM
10

While I am having sex with a young, hot beauty, it is of absolutely no importance to me what she thinks of it. I prefer women who subscribe to Islamic law or to at least another traditional code. These comments scream "has never given a woman an orgasm."
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 08:50 AM
49

Knowing this, isn't it weird how much manosphere time is dedicated to complaining about women who don't want to lower their standards and fuck gross men? I mean, do you want to be with a woman who isn't attracted to you or what?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 08:38 AM
4

I posted a big study on this a couple of days ago. It looks like women are just dating down However, a second study I posted in the education and attractiveness thread also found two things: low educated men and high educated women may have a harder time dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/07/21 08:30 AM
2

Men are pretty resistant to doing things like this to improve their looks. Anything over a couple of inches is probably going to be very noticeable with your shoes off however.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 10:25 PM
1

Depends on what you mean by dating, but most people don't maintain multiple concurrent sexual partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 08:25 PM
1

"let me get my little boo boo ready for you" etc lol
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 05:42 PM
–

Have you ever had a girlfriend OP?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 05:24 PM
6

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 04:56 PM
23

Only 20% of women 30-40 are single. 40% of that group of female singles are not looking to date. It's actually a relatively small number who are struggling. "The wall" is a kind of vicarious revenge fantasy. Men who get passed up by women in their 20s feel vindicated in the belief that the very women who rejected them for "Chad" will be unwanted in the future - a sort of dating karma. In fact the women who struggle in their 20s with dating are most likely the ones who struggle into their 30s. Th…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 04:40 PM
–

You can't tell from any of that if the man is going to enjoy sex with you.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 04:22 PM
19

Study posted here the other day that found most LTRs begin as sexual relationships first. Anyway, there is an inherent limitation as to how much someone you only recently started seeing can care about you. A woman who has a first date with you doesn't care about you any more than a woman who prefers not to wait for sex. I hope people aren't thinking first date sex means they are in love.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 04:18 PM
–

At 5'4 "curvy" I was suspicious of this as well. A man would have to be very small.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 04:11 PM
–

How do you feel about men who use steroids? and a very angry sounding bio about how he could lie and nobody would know. I see bios like this all the time. Incredible that people do this. Sure way to self sabotage.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 04:07 PM
9

Yeah I feel like they should have treated the people who didn't meet as an entirely separate group.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 02:32 PM
1

Yep probably true. Just being fit gives you a huge advantage already on the physical side.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 02:19 PM
2

Because it seems like almost every possibly remotely desirable woman I've met has encountered or almost encountered this The problem is framing "wants to have sex" with "using me" imo. Women describe men who they've had sex with as having "used" them if the man breaks it off. It's an ego-saving move, so they don't have to describe it as a failed relationship or a man who doesn't want to continue with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 02:14 PM
10

https://imgur.com/a/Ac8KV8e Unfortunately, that website isn't a great measure of your dating market value nor does it measure the likelihood of a given woman finding a man who meets those criteria. Individually those variables will help you I'm sure, but without a measure of attractiveness it's missing a huge part of the picture. The variables are also not independent of one another, nor is dating choice and availability for women randomly distributed. A 1% prevalence of a type of man does not m…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 02:10 PM
2

These are reasons why men break up with women after sex. Almost by definition it must be blaming the woman, since we're seeing some fault in the woman large enough to break up with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 12:55 PM
5

alot of them act like their gods gift to women Some men say only looks matter. However I'd also have trouble dating a woman who doesn't know the difference between "alot" and "a lot," as well "their" and "they're."
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 12:45 PM
6

Yep that first story was a stretch.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 12:15 PM
3

Having watched this video, these men and women are all around or below average attractiveness. I think that may influence the type of standards they are able to set. I don't think the behavioral observations are wrong. For example, the woman who went on a second date with someone she didn't like just because he didn't NiceGuy her with profanities when she said she didn't think it would work out. Not having a verbal meltdown on a complete stranger is clearly a very low bar.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 11:52 AM
20

I don't think they came to a red pill debate subreddit to find a man.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 11:41 AM
3

You wouldn't be able to tell tbh. What sort of behavior or cues do you think would let you know if someone will break up with you over bad sex, not liking the way you look naked or having a bad smell?
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 11:35 AM
2

Thing is that waiting for sex won't really help much with this problem. I described in a couple of comments how I broke up with women for the same issues (mostly bad sex) after a wait or having seen them for a while. These are going to be deal breakers for most men at any point in the relationship and trying to secure a commitment before the man finds out isn't going to work. It will probably be worse in the long run. Imagine starting to form a bond with someone over the course of a month and ge…
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 11:21 AM
1

No, I only ever hear women say this about men. There is no contradiction between sampling as many different women as possible and not ghosting an attractive woman who is good in bed who you may want sex with at some future point. Even if we're busy with other women or you're not high on the list of first choices, we'll at least respond to a text every now and then to not entirely burn the bridge.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 11:14 AM
5

Then there is also the disgust factor. This is a study where bad smells administered to heterosexual people make them dislike gays more. I'm afraid you're just looking like a bullshitter.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 01:47 AM
6

Wow, outliers really tugging those mean N counts away from the median. Chads and betas are real on this sub.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 12:51 AM
5

It truly is the most efficient.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 12:38 AM
5

They may not have wanted to get caught. However if they're using Tinder and meeting other women for dates it probably doesn't explain the ghosting. The risk wouldn't be higher with you than with anyone else. I think if you've had five separate men ghost you it's likely there is some commonality there also.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 12:31 AM
7

as soon as I am grossed out You literally just said you've never heard men say they were grossed out by women who weren't closeted gay men. That it was not normal. Now you're saying you leave when you're grossed out by women. I can see, and I can smell, if a girl is clean before doing the dirty with her. The fact that you think you can sniff out a smelly vagina or tell before the clothes come off just makes me think you're an inexperienced man inventing tbh. Same if you've never brought someone …
/r/PurplePillDebate18/07/21 12:22 AM
3

Not a literal 100%, there must be exceptions. I did think of cheaters who might be afraid of being caught. I don't think PUAs as much, because they're still incentivized to maintain contact. Sexual preferences disparate enough to cause someone to ghost basically fall into the bad or unenjoyable sex category I mentioned.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 11:58 PM
11

Imagine trying to unironically argue that not being indiscriminately attracted to gross women is gay. This reads like r/ihavesex material. A quick glance at the comments here and you'll see most men have had the same experience of gross sex and ending relationships based on it.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 11:51 PM
2

All the pair bonding statistics scream that girls with higher the notch count the higher chance the relationship won't work out, her cheating etc. OP already defined this hypothetical person as "loyal" so presumably none of that applies. Is there a reason beyond that why you think value goes down?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 10:05 PM
2

Yes. You've basically just defined her as a good person. I think this question will show how some people are not actually interested in loyalty, ability to pair bond, probability of divorce, or cheating however. Basically the typical RP arguments against high N count women. Insecurity (self comparison with her past partners) and high disgust sensitivity (the "taint" from past partners) probably contribute a lot to the desire for virgins and low N count women.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 10:02 PM
1

I mean I don't think most women are gross. I'm just describing what is going on when men ghost or end relationships after the first sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 09:18 PM
8

Yep bad smell is not the most common.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 09:14 PM
4

I don't think it's common, borderline paraphilia territory really. It would probably still slot into what I described, since they're getting ghosted post sex for being gross.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 09:03 PM
8

What a lot of guys do though is semi-ghost or ghost and pull a haunting when they want sex again. Yes this is true. Some guys also don’t want to have sex with the same woman twice because it’s about racking up the numbers I don't think this is true in most cases, since keeping someone on the back burner for sex won't stop you from having sex with others.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 08:56 PM
2

What is that?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 08:47 PM
2

Yep agree. I'd put those into the same category. Basically a deal-breaker happened.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 08:45 PM
6

I mean, could you not be like "oh shit I'm sorry I forgot I have some place to be" I have done this too actually. Anyway I'm not telling anyone they should ghost people. I'm just describing what's probably going on when we disappear the next day.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 08:40 PM
1

Yep very similar except for the hard ghosting.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 08:38 PM
11

Yes, but we won't disappear unless the sex is bad. We're not going to burn bridges with someone who we still want to have sex with. "The sex was great, let's never do it again" is pretty much not a thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 08:34 PM
11

Just a mad comment. I'm not going to continue having sex with women who gross me out. It's not shallow. Sorry not sorry.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 08:26 PM
8

I know plenty of players, who only wanted the challenge This is more like how women think. Men want sex and we don't destroy sexually fulfilling casual relationships as a general rule. In fact usually the women here are saying these kinds of men want immediate sex without any challenge at all. None of my personal examples were challenges either. They were all women who came home with me on a first or second date. If a woman appealed to them, they were off, irrespective of her relationship status…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 08:25 PM
13

lol I have to admit these aren't reasons I would have ever expected
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 08:04 PM
25

Post-nut clarity is also just men who were grossed out most of the time. Even men deliberately trying to rack up numbers don't write off an attractive woman/good sex. This is also how men reframe their failures. I have seen men brag "yeah I hit it and quit it" when I knew for a fact the woman broke it off and would not return their messages.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 08:03 PM
14

after she took her clothes off, it just wasn’t very attractive m, she looked better with them on (I know it’s brutal), I still did the deed to not hurt her feeling, but damn. Yep same. This is a thing. I actually think this explains a lot of incidents of men ghosting or leaving after the first sexual encounter. Maybe most.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 07:40 PM
3

What if a man wants commitment, has sex, doesn't like the sex and leaves? As a man that has been my personal experience dating. If the sex was bad I left. I am now in a committed relationship with someone and the sex is good. I always wanted a committed relationship and it was a potential with anyone, but bad sex was a deal breaker. I think it's possible that some men wanted a committed relationship with you, but changed their mind after the sex.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 07:37 PM
3

It's like whenever a man rightly points out a indecent behaviour in a woman or a group of women he is accused of misogyny or labeled as one of those other loathsome, demonized man groups. RP ideology tells you AWALT - "all women are like that." You're encouraged to assume that either all women are literally like that or should be treated as such. Personally, I see unloathesome men distinguish themselves apart from collectives, it's usually the unlikable guys that hide behind some type of collect…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 07:32 PM
4

This is the big one.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 07:21 PM
4

How can you tell if someone lied about wanting a committed relationship vs having left after sex for any other reason?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 07:21 PM
8

She falls for it and fucks on the first date I have a hard time imagining a man convincing a woman he wants a committed relationship with her on the first date. In fact what kind of woman would decide: "Yes, I want a committed relationship with you after we've known each other four hours." Sounds like some kind of insecure attachment.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 07:13 PM
2

I have never retrospectively regretted sex, however I can tell you what I have stopped having sex over: woman does something that grossed me out / sex felt gross, sex was bad, decided I didn't like them any more on a non sexual level. When I read stories about regretable sex it often seems to involve mentally ill people, or drugs/alcohol. Maybe STDs would cause regret.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 07:10 PM
17

I can imagine someone having a totally normal relationship and then wrecking it with paranoia and insecurity because they rinsed their brain in YouTube ideology every day.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 07:04 PM
3

This hysterical belief that has somehow become a cornerstone of debate on this sub despite having no real support that it is common at all.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 07:00 PM
1

And you can easily induce logically that a PhD in social studies would take less time than a PhD in STEM, STEM PhDs are usually shorter in fact. Just goes to show the limitation of "inducing logically," aka just guessing shit. You have been wrong a lot throughout this conversation by trying to intuit your way through it. Terminal degrees in the hard sciences typically take a slightly shorter time to complete than do degrees in education and the humanities. The field of physics has a current aver…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 06:55 PM
2

Men don't have to bring weapons on dates to mitigate risk. Women refusing to go on dates or dipping out at small red flags is also a risk mitigation strategy.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 06:48 PM
1

most women have a relatively small understanding of what a PhD is even is. You're protecting. The fact you keep referring to a PhD as "4 years" shows me how far removed you are from higher education. The average PhD takes about eight years to finish. Looks like it was you who had a small understanding of what a PhD was all along. Women have outpaced men in earning PhDs for the past decade by the way. https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/women-earned-majority-of-doctoral-degrees-in-2019-for-11th-straig…
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 06:41 PM
1

It's not "inductive logical thinking." It's just your unfounded opinion. Feels over reals. Logic is also not empirical, entirely different epistemologies. Exactly the kind of thing people with degrees learn that set them apart from those without tbh.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 06:24 PM
1

That's what you think. Is that belief based on anything empirical or just feels?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 06:19 PM
1

What makes you think women don't take a PhD in gender studies seriously?
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 06:11 PM
–

What exactly is the clitoris. 🤔
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 03:22 PM
2

sometimes I see advices for men here and there to use skincare or even makeup This is good advice actually. Like at least don't let the sun destroy your face. Your chances to meet rapist are no higher than you chances to meet murderer. Absolute risk may be low, but keep in mind most sexual assaults and murders are not random. They're carried out by men that women know. A date, a relationship are actually the high risk situations for women here.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 03:18 PM
2

Do you really think subs like this would exist if so many men didn't struggle at dating? Enough men struggle to make these kinds of forum a thing, but they are still a minority. 70% of Americans are in a relationship and 15% of singles report being voluntarily single. These forums have a selection bias for the men who struggle the most, basically the rock bottom of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 03:13 PM
1

Red Pill and manosphere ideology is associated with violence. It's an obvious red flag for a woman. Go to Google Scholar and look at all of the research for the keywords "red pill violence."
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 03:04 PM
2

Spot on. I can't imagine a bigger red flag than being able to read the comment history of a lot of men who post here.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 03:02 PM
0

If a woman is a known gold-digger, I get with her and she takes all my money, am I a victim, or a product of my poor judgment skills? Gold-digging is not a crime and not something you should reasonably be expected to be protected from. Unlike assault or murder. The victims of interpersonal homicide do not enter relationships knowing "this man is a murderer" in most cases.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 02:59 PM
5

They don’t even care about evidence, statistics RP men regularly reject evidence and statistics in lieu of anecdotes here.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 02:56 PM
12

The goalposts keep shifting. First it was too many sexual partners ruins the ability to pair bond. Now it's too many dates.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 12:46 PM
6

Reading these comments it seems like a lot of men expect a woman to commit to them in some way by agreeing to go on a date.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 12:44 PM
1

Yep, it's definitely a class/status symbol and I think that has a lot to do with the attractiveness of degree holders.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 11:15 AM
1

I have read your entire comment chain here and it screams very insecure man: if women have a certain title or status, does that mean that they look down on any man who has less? Not exactly quaint to be around when a woman thinks she's better than you and tries to compete with you rather than enjoy your time together. They think they're too good for most men because they have a title and all men have to measure up to her standards of still being better than her. Women with degrees tend to think …
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 11:13 AM
2

I'd prefer to date a woman with a degree than one without all things being equal.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 10:39 AM
1

Having a degree would yep.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 10:36 AM
1

Women don't have a problem getting men in general.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 10:26 AM
5

the more educated you are, the less likely you are to be conservative Yep I was thinking that too when I was writing the last part of the post, that the skepticism of education, conservativism and manosphere ideology all cluster together. I have dated women without a degree, it's noticable that there is like a huge chunk of life experience missing associated with the entire university process. I didn't really mind, but like this research shows men also seem to care less.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 12:32 AM
4

A few of these papers compare looks and education, looks are still the most important variable both for men and women. However women are much more likely to select men on an assortment of other variables aside from looks.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/07/21 12:26 AM
–

It's all broken down by age group, gay/straight, etc. right on that page. If you want to look at subgroups that is fine, but keep in mind subgroups are also not the average man. At that point you're looking at the average man only within those groups. If we look at something like single men 20-30, which is 50% and the highest single demographic listed, at the very minimum a full half of all statistically average men are in relationships.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:45 PM
1

In the Neyt study it looks like it was in the bio: Then, users get shown, one by one, all profiles of other users that fit their three criteria. The information provided in these profiles is the other users’ (i) picture(s), (ii) name, (iii) age, (iv) education, and (v) occupation on the main screen, although the latter two pieces of information are optional entries.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:32 PM
5

So where specifically do the statistics reflect a pattern of one man having frequent sex with multiple women? You should see a long fat tail in the distribution of sexual partners, or something that looks bimodal. That does not seem to be the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:26 PM
–

This is actually mostly practical advice. I'd make a few suggestions: While some women don't like it, a beard is sexually dimorphic. Minoxidil stimulates hair growth and can be used to grow in a thick beard. Muscle and beard are putting this average male into the above average sexual dimorphism category. A good haircut is also crucial. If he is balding, he should shave it all off and go for the bald, muscle, and beard look. The research is mixed on beards and attractiveness. If you can't already…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:22 PM
–

70% of adults are not single. Even if we began from the right tail of the distribution going left, you'd snag all the average men in the second and third quartiles. It's probably mostly below average men who perpetually single. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2020/08/20/a-profile-of-single-americans/
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:13 PM
4

What they are doing is they are picking one or two guys who they fuck regularly and use that guy for sex ONLY which is still casual sex. How would the statistics reflect this OP? You're still seeing one woman and one man having sexual frequency at equal rates. This is how an LTR would appear in the stats.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:09 PM
–

They did break up with you. They don't need to sit you down and give you formal notice.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 10:57 PM
–

The actual average male is having sex. Perhaps not as frequently as they would like, but literally average people are forming relationships, having sex and making babies all the time.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 10:54 PM
–

I have posted about how highly promiscuous men are more likely to have Dark Triad traits, one of which is called Machiavellianism. It is basically manipulativeness. If they are "Chad" or not is debatable, I'd wager most are not, but DT men have lower standards and this explains some of the ability to be more promiscuous. Personally: I have a high N count and I have never pretended to want a relationship with a woman for sex. I have had ONS's with women, disliked it and ghosted them however. I've…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 10:53 PM
–

sometimes after months of this That's a break up, not a pump and dump.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 10:44 PM
3

A man takes a woman out on a date for “several” months and he pays for everything and they never get intimate with each other. This is the dating experience of most modern men that we just have to accept and deal with if you dating and your average. I don't think dating for months without sex only to be dumped is the norm. Just a quick search: "Of those who were sexually active, a slight majority (51 percent) said they waited a few weeks before having sex, while just over one-third (38 percent) …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 06:32 PM
2

The 2nd option and it's not even close for most men. If she's actually receptive and enthusiastic who gives a shit if you have to initiate and pay for dates? A surprisingly large number of men on this sub are saying option 1. I think option 1 appeals to sexless men who have slipped into the sour grape fallacy: "If she's not a pure virgin tradwife I don't want a relationship anyway."
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 06:07 PM
3

However, virgins or low n-count women virtually do not exist in this day and age once they reach the age of 18. What is this belief based on?
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 06:06 PM
1

Market rate in his area maybe. I just phoned my auntie who is an investment banker on Wall Street. She makes 350k and just hired two people for 150k. Therefore degrees are better than trades. You see intuitively why that doesn't work right, I hope? Similar: The issue is you're also including older workers in your calculation for degree holders too. Previous generations (who are still working) had much better prospects than younger generations. You're not including tradesmen who lose their finger…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 05:46 PM
1

his one employee These are anecdotes my dude. This is one person.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 05:25 PM
2

These are all considerations for choosing a career, however the numbers on income are clear. The mean and the median of degree holders is higher both than non-degree holders and trade graduates. When you remove healthcare from the trades it drops even further. When you compare the top ten highest paid trades with the top ten highest paid careers requiring degrees, they are all lower. When you compare the ten fastest growing trades with careers that requires degrees, they are all lower. You can't…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 05:17 PM
5

Trades are not an 'outlier'. Anyone making 200k without a degree is an outlier. Average salary without a degree is 24k. Average salary for an HVAC tech is 40k, only 10% are over 70k. Average salary for a BA is 64k in comparison.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 04:54 PM
1

You can't prove op right or wrong because unless you spy on all women you're relying on things like surveys. Samples predict traits of groups. Actual math.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 04:25 PM
2

Outliers and anecdotes change the statistic. Educational level predicts income linearity. There is also the status/class effect, where a degree has higher social prestige than a blue collar job.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 04:23 PM
5

Related to this, here is a large recent meta-analysis that compared income and attractiveness. Attractiveness predicted partner choice moderate-strongly but income was a weak predictor. This doesn't show hypergamy, but it's a good look at how physical attractiveness is one of the top (probably the top) variables for relationship choice. This one would be strong evidence for attractiveness trumping money. physical attractiveness predicted romantic evaluations with a moderate-to-strong effect size…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 12:24 PM
3

It doesn't correlate to what people say when they talk about hypergamy, which is about looks. Most research on hypergamy and the way the term is used in evolutionary/behavioral/psych research focuses on resources (income) and education. Physical attraction may be more important, insofar as it acts as a gate: a minimum level of physical attractiveness acts as a hard requirement. However we also see homogamy in attractiveness, couples are usually equally matched and when they are not women are mor…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 12:05 PM
3

This is more of an economic question than a class question. That said, senators, doctors, scientists, CEOs and stock brokers usually have degrees. With the exception of senators most have masters degrees at a minimum.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:59 AM
5

"Money, power and respect" might be able to overcome other classical class indicators when they are very large, but not in most cases. The obvious example is how blue collar jobs are considered low class versus white collar jobs. It doesn't matter if you as an individual make more as a plumber than someone with an PhD in literature. You're still a plumber and they are still a doctor. You can become a rapper, athlete or a mafioso and you still will not be associated with the cultural upper class …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:49 AM
4

Keep in mind that education and income covary strongly. Level of educational attainment is one of the best predictors of income. We should consider the variables apart of course but we can't separate them entirely. One of the reasons why education predicts relationship formation is that it has a huge role in determining who you come into contact with, and thus who you get into relationships with. So aside from whatever role education has on your individual attractiveness, it plays a role in the …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:39 AM
7

Education is one of the strongest indicators and divisions or class in Western society and culture. Like it or not, highly educated people, and society overall, view people without degrees as belonging to a lower class.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:34 AM
5

It's sort of inevitable that the ability of women to be hypergamous will be diminished if they're now more educated on average. The proportion of higher class men is lower to pick from.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:32 AM
2

It doesn't "just" make relationships less likely. We see from the data that hypogamous and homogamous relationships have become more likely. Some women are just staying single, but a lot (a majority) are forming relationships with equal and lower class men.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:26 AM
2

If you want a better measure of actual expectations just look at the number of people in relationships. That said, I don't think most men are attracted to the average woman either.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:23 AM
6

Just because people don't have higher education degrees doesn't mean they are on the lower scale of income. This is true for individuals but not group statistics. Degree holders on average earn more than those without.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:17 AM
6

Education isn’t really a reliable indicator of value anymore. Insofar as the dating market, that is for women to decide. That said, I don't think it's an accident that the men who struggle with dating/women overlap with men who have low education/don't value education. Not having educational parity is a deal breaker for many people, as we can see from the data. Lots of anecdotes from the women here who have said it as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:15 AM
-1

You can see from the data that it has been a thing. Women used to marry men with higher education on average, now they do not.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:12 AM
2

It's only education correct. It doesn't look into any other forms of hypergamy/homogamy/hypogamy. This could still potentially exist across other variables, although income and education are the two big ones associated with hypergamy in the literature. Income and education also correlate pretty well. I'd be surprised if we didn't still see hypergamy in income, since men do make more on average. But I would also bet that it has declined from past dates. Just guesses here, I'd have to look it up. …
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 11:10 AM
17

Yep, rarely are the people who express this strict desire to only date younger girls successful with women themselves. They usually end up not dating. I wonder if it's intentional, making their own dating life harder so they can justify being single or their attitudes on dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 08:59 AM
4

This is not the kind of "actual evidence" that should convince OP or anyone. You can't intuit your way to a conclusion. If women were really sharing Chads it would be an observable phenomenon you could show empirically.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 08:50 AM
3

To my mind what this site really demonstrates is not that women have unrealistic standards, but that the MGTOW/blackpill line that desirable men are opting out of marriage en masse is patently untrue. It's mostly the undesirables who are GTOW. Yep exactly, I noticed that too when someone posted a comment after running the 6-6-6 figure in the calculator. Men who were six feet with six figure incomes were like four times as likely to already be married.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/07/21 08:47 AM
7

not married any race at least 6' tall not obese earning at least $50,000 per year Probability According to statistical data, the probability a guy of the U.S. male population ages 20 to 30 meets your standards is 1.2% Lowering a height by one inch and narrowing the age range raises it: not married any race at least 5' 11" tall not obese earning at least $50,000 per year Probability According to statistical data, the probability a guy of the U.S. male population ages 25 to 30 meets your standards…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 10:35 PM
1

Just to explain significance here further, here the results from the relevant portion: Number of sexual partners. The two-way ANOVA on self-reports of the number of sexual partners yielded no significant effects, F < 1, but the data did strongly favor the predicted pattern (see Figure 2). That is, men reported more sexual partners than did women in the exposure threat condition (3.7 vs. 2.6, 2 = .03), where gender expectations are most salient. The magnitude of the sex difference decreased in th…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 08:45 PM
1

That's fine, but it doesn't mean you should expect an equal distribution across those two studies. It doesn't show that either of them are inaccurate. You need some degree of representativeness for generalizability. You don't have that between the sample groups. Your group of Italian girls 18-25 would need to be PornHub users, because this only tells us what PornHub users consume. All of this aside, it's not relevant to the question of self reporting partner count. If people misreport something …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 08:26 PM
1

This falls to 3.4 (a 23% drop) in the anonymous survey, and falls to 2.6 (a 41% drop) in the exposure threat. If the researchers want to label that as not significant, they can, but it's certainly significant in that it demonstrates exactly what the men on this subreddit, including myself, claim on the issue. Not significant in this sense means that they could not determine that the result was not due to chance, which is called statistical significance. It's not a statement on how meaningful the…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 08:07 PM
1

This here is a self reported measure of pornography use by men and women. If we compare these results to pornhub's stats we can see that the self reported measures don't add up to the recorded data from actual porn distributors. This is a comparison of an Italian student sample with all PornHub users. These are different populations, why wouldn't we expect different results? This isn't an example of lies on self report, there is no basis to conclude that.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 08:00 PM
2

I mean "good energy" sums up some PUA takes. Men who struggle with relationships also do seem to be unhappy. Correlation being what it is, I don't think if they were less miserable it would totally fix their woman issues.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 07:33 PM
21

I live in Western Europe and have lived in Eastern Europe. If you're having trouble dating in the USA it won't be easier for you in Europe. Fewer obese people means greater competition. Depending on where you are people are taller on average. Men who are angry about promiscuity, feminism, egalitarianism are going to be very disappointed that they are more normalized here. Since RP stuff covaries with being a USA style conservative be aware that everywhere except for rural areas you'll be viewed …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 07:27 PM
1

The problem with this objection is that misreports would have to be consistent across time and data sets. Basically everyone misreporting in the same way, consistently.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 05:47 PM
3

Man, it's unbelievable for me as a man that SO many other men whine SO DAMN MUCH about women. The biggest irony is men who whine nostop about women yet call themselves "men going their own way."
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 04:46 PM
1

Research results tell us nothing about how it works in the real world and thus have limited usefulness at best to anyone. They're significant only to research psychologists and have no usefulness to real world people or situations. Actual science denial. Research results with semi normal populations even in artificial conditions have greater generalizability than real world anecdotes. Anecdotes are inherently not generalizable. Basic principle of statistics, since generalizability is a function …
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 04:26 PM
1

Your post clearly implies that since some women don't lie when they know they're research subjects threatened with exposure if they lie, ergo, women are honest when they talk about their Ns in the real world. It doesn't. No one familiar with research or academia would ever make that assumption. Both from the research-specific terminology and from the fact the research isn't generalizable that way.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 04:11 PM
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I'm quite familiar with social science research. I have a degree in it. You said you have a BA. No, you suggested that it refers to women lying to men's faces when asked about it in real time in the real world, and not in a sterile laboratory environment. lol no I didn't this research says only that some women don't lie about it when they know they're research subjects and they believe they're hooked up to polygraphs. This is a criticism like "small sample size." Yep, it's always just some. That…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 04:00 PM
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I didn't direct it at you specifically, I'm usually the first to point out the limitations of research. This was to address the recurring claim that we can't trust scientific data or statistics on sexual history. It's pretty common on this forum that people try to undermine the science or statistics by asserting that women lie so the numbers can't be right. This research just shows that probably isn't the case and if it is the effect is small enough it shouldn't undermine the data.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 03:55 PM
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Of course what's experienced and read about on red pill forums is generalizable It's just a collection of unstructured anecdotes. That you think scientific research can't be generalized well but forum anecdotes can says a lot tbh. I don't need to read up on generalizability. You really do if you think red pill lore is generalizable. This research in no way stands for the proposition in your headline, that "Research shows people are truthful when self reporting past partner count and sexual histo…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 03:50 PM
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These studies, at most, support the proposition that some women don't detectably lie about P in V sex within an unspecified margin of error when asked by shrinks, when they know they're being studied and their responses will be tabulated and "studied", and when they believe they're hooked up to lie detector machines and want to avoid unknown older educated adults shaming them for lying and want to avoid getting caught in a lie about something very personal to them. That's quite the sentence, but…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 03:36 PM
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Anonymous surveys are the way most self report data is collected. This is the standard for data collection. By "self report" and my post I think it was pretty clear this is about the reliability of the dominant research methodology. No one can tell any random guy on a date that any specific woman is going to be honest to them.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 03:30 PM
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Virgins usually pair off with other virgins and to a lesser extent others with few sexual partners, so what you describe OP is kind of how it plays out naturally.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 02:31 PM
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Anything less than 40% in this condition would have been reported as zero. It was the minimum needed to reach a significant outcome.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 02:04 PM
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They were never supposed to. These studies show the reliability of self reports in research. They show that when people try to dismiss statistics because "women lie" it's unfounded. If a woman lies to your face on a date is an entirely different question.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 01:59 PM
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The size of the effect was large enough for the researchers to conclude the anonymous sex related surveys should be regarded with a healthy degree of skepticism. do you disagree with them? It wasn't. This isn't a statement about reporting of sexual partner count, but the results in total. There were actually large differences in some of the "sexual behavior" measures, but not reported sexual partner count. The fact that they repeated the same study with more people and only then were able to det…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 01:54 PM
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You'd usually remove those kinds of outliers. In the methodology you'll sometimes see a statement like "one person reported having 175 partners who we removed" or "we removed anyone reporting over 30 partners." In part because outliers that are really far from the mean are often spurious responses. But also because it skews the rest of the data set. If you can't remember or can't report a number at all you're probably also purged from the set just for non response. I also don't know my total N c…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 01:04 PM
1

The two studies you linked seem to be paywalled as well so I'm not sure how you got the quotes from the main body of text. If you go to Sci Hub you can plug in the DOI address and it will pull up most of the research articles behind paywalls. Another problem is that those studies are using anonymous surveys compared with the bogus lie detector. Anonymity already increases honesty, and whether someone is going to be honest in an anonymous questionaire is not the same as whether they will be hones…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 12:28 PM
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Which study? There are three separate studies and a literature review of 20+ studies.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 12:23 PM
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You are trying to downplay the 1 partner discrepancy when another way to look at it is that self reported numbers are 40% off. Actually since the measurement is partner count that's the appropriate way to report it. I'd be wary of assuming the magnitude scales by the way, since we see the same magnitude in research that didn't meet significance. The size of the effect is small, which is probably why it isn't consistently detected across the research. It would be difficult to impossible for a sin…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 12:21 PM
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If it's happening over and over it's usually that person's fault as a general rule. "It's not me, it's all women" is a delusional way to think.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 11:52 AM
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I actually just added an edit that includes a study by this same author that found no relationship between gender and self reported sexual partners using this same methodology. I'll read this one in full in a minute, but skimming down to the results for sexual partner self reporting it looks like although they reached significance here the magnitude remained small, around one person in either direction for men (up) and women (down) for sexual partner count. That's consistent with the first and l…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 11:46 AM
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u/rivertorain- responded and said you mean the study below. It found no significant difference for self reported sexual partners between men and women. The bogus-pipeline (fake lie detector) condition and anonymous survey condition were also not significant. The magnitude of difference between conditions although not significant was also only one sexual partner. This is more or less exactly what the first study I posted found, so it confirms that as well. I'm not sure where you got a factor of 3…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 11:22 AM
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Thanks for that, reading it now. Weird that I didn't run across this yesterday when I was searching for this topic, I hit up like all the keywords in the title.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 11:06 AM
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If there is a different one you'll have to post it, I looked around and this is what I found. I didn't do an exhaustive search or anything so I could have missed studies that weren't included. The first study here uses a fake lie detector as well.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 10:43 AM
1

"Just be a literal cuckold" isn't much of an argument or point to debate.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 10:29 AM
4

Am I missing something or is this desperately unfair? It has zero to do with fairness actually. The roles are not contingent upon one another. Being a gentleman or whatever you listed in the second box of roles isn't predicted upon women cleaning and doing housework. Your behavior isn't something that women have to earn, it's not a reward. It's expected.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 10:28 AM
3

You're doing something to be unattractive if you're handsome, tall and rich but you're getting regularly rejected by women. "Why don't women like me - must be women" isn't an objective point of view.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/07/21 10:22 AM
0

It can be anything from BFF to random person on the street, but it's still not meeting on OLD.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/21 07:52 PM
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what about a Hedge Fund finance bro versus a sewer maintenance technician There is some asymmetry between social class and utility or value IMO. Most people would consider the hedgie as being higher class despite being a social parasite vs the person with sewer in the job title, despite being highly trained and useful.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/21 07:49 PM
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I felt like social status was more rigid and society wide. For example, the way a career as an MD is considered to be high status and the way a career at Burger King is low status. Same with working class subcultures (redneck, hillbilly) vs urban subcultures (OC or something I guess).
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/21 07:46 PM
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One of the most consistent markers of social status in the West has been education level. A lot has been said on this sub about assortative mating, education and the refusal (especially for women) to date into lower educational attainment.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/21 07:44 PM
3

I would think the evolutionary psych perspective is women want relationships more. That's usually the way it is characterized in the field. That being because a woman carries the burden of a 9 month gestation and rearing a child. A male can deposit loads in multiple women to secure reproductive fitness.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/21 07:36 PM
–

I don't run into a lot on dating and neuroticism in the news or my research alerts, but I'm sure there is a bunch of stuff. The big five is one of the most well researched topics in personality psychology.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/07/21 07:28 PM
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