ApokalypseCow Archive

Upvotes	Title	Category	Author	Subreddit	Date (UTC)

Upvotes	Comment on	Subreddit	Date (UTC)
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence No, at best lederberg thing just showed that variation previously existed... Hey look, tack something else on to the list of things you don't understand. The fact that the resistance variation was present prior to the exposure to penicillin shows precisely that the mutation for such resistance was random, as it did not arise in response to exposure to penicillin. Therefore, it existed in the population without a need for it, without a director. Regarding epigenetics, that can only affect the tra…	/r/MarriedRedPill	05/04/17 03:23 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Your short term memory is failing you again. You asked here for the following: I'm dying show me any case that proves random mutation (plus natural selection) can add information... So, I provided you with citations. You asked for links. I provided links. You now ask me to give you LESS information, because apparently you can't deal with how much science knows and you do not. Your goalposts are obviously on wheels.	/r/MarriedRedPill	05/04/17 02:24 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence I said "RANDOM" mutations. your theory needs variation to be RANDOM The variations are random, as the Lederberg experiment showed. However, what heritable variations survive is decidedly not random. You can't expect people to believe in universal common descent starting with a primordial bacteria-like-thing if all nature can do is select from pre-existing variants without ever adding new innovation. By definition, evolution requires inherited genetic frequencies, but the co-requirement of "desce…	/r/MarriedRedPill	05/04/17 02:19 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence No, what you did was ask for examples of increasing genetic information. I provided that, in spades. Your hand isn't strong enough to deal with a straight flush, so you're asking for a high card instead.	/r/MarriedRedPill	05/04/17 01:52 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence You didn't get my opinion. You got facts. If those do not qualify as genetic information, then I ask you to define that term in such a way that you cannot later move the goalposts. Once you've built the coffin for your argument in that way, I'll bury it for you.	/r/MarriedRedPill	05/04/17 01:48 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence I gave you 10. Between them, they showed an increase in genetic material, an increase in genetic variety in a population, novel genetic material, and novel genetically regulated abilities. If these do not qualify as information, then nothing about information is relevant to evolution in the first place. If you're going to make me repeat myself again and again, this is going to be a very tedious discussion.	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 11:43 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence ok it's not "evolution" because there are no random mutations involved... Yes, it is mutations involved: again, the documented mutational difference amount to a gene duplication followed by a frameshift. Also, as I've stated before, mutation is not the only way by which variation enters a genome to be selected for or against. If you're really that ignorant, then you need a very basic primer on evolution before we can have a meaningful discussion. If you're going to make me repeat myself again an…	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 11:42 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence I'm going by the researcher said too, the difference is I actually understand it. As for new information, that's the point of the whole paper. As stated, we've seen and documented an increase in genetic material, an increase in genetic variety in a population, novel genetic material, and novel genetically regulated abilities. If these do not qualify as information, then nothing about information is relevant to evolution in the first place.	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 11:20 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence ...because performing a completely different experiment is totally the same thing as repeating an older experiment, right? Nevermind that it's still an observed instance of evolution, just with humans directly selecting the individuals they wanted (Forty-six Cit(+) individuals per generation). Oh, and if you'd read the second half of the sentence you're holding up as some kind of trophy, you'd know that the "same result" happened in about 100 generations this way, not 12. Here's some of the peop…	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 09:39 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence Oh hey, you forgot how to use Reddit again. Oh, now you're going to reference a separate paper, written 3 years before the one we were just discussing? OK, whatever. The "special mechanism" he's referencing is specifically what I mentioned earlier, about repetitive sequences tending to not producing stop codons. NylB is descended from a peptide with many internal repeats, and itself contains a fair number of internal repeats, this makes it less likely to generate stop codons in the first place. …	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 09:19 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26833416/ Oh look, another paper you failed to understand. Maybe you missed the part in the abstract where it says, "We hypothesized that direct selection would rapidly yield the same class of E. coli Cit(+) mutants..." Meaning that they weren't simply repeating the experiment. In regards to the other, which part of the ribosome did it add? Quote the part you think confirms your argument. Maybe you misunderstand how technical papers are read and understood. …	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 07:17 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Oh hey, you forgot how to use Reddit again. Do you need a refresher on what a phenotype is versus a genotype?	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 07:07 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence It's really hard to "shoot down" a lot of people who actually know what they're talking about, especially from your demonstrated position of ignorance, isn't it? Well, a lack of understanding on your part doesn't make the position of the scientific community any weaker.	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 07:04 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence The paper doesn't say anything of the sort, and if you'd actually read it, you'd know that. In fact, your specific objection shows me that you're likely just pulling your answers straight from AiG, specifically Don Batten's "work", and his understanding of the issue is fundamentally flawed. There are a number of different enzymes involved in the adaptations to not merely survive on nylon, but thrive. The important one is nylB, which is responsible for the complete breakdown of the nylon oligomer…	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 07:01 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence You asked for a new structure, I gave it to you: a physical, chemical structure, adding an ion channel. Phenotypic mutations are actually much more common than merely genotypic	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 06:05 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence There is no "best one", as they each deal with very different things, so you'll have to fail to read and fail to understand them on your own. If you're going to make me repeat myself again and again, this is going to be a very tedious conversation indeed.	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 06:02 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Mutation is not the only way by which variation enters a genome to be selected for or against. If you're really that ignorant, then you need a very basic primer on evolution before we can have a meaningful discussion. You asked for instances of increasing information in a genome, and I gave it to you. Also, the ability to synthesize nylonase has been seen independently through several different mechanisms, in one instance by a gene duplication event followed by a frame shift mutation. Care to de…	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 06:01 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Oh hey, you forgot how to use Reddit again. I didn't asked how the ribosome evolved...as in some theoretical model. I asked for the mutations responsible. ...and if you'd actually read and understood the paper, it gives the mutations and the regions. Start from the section titled "INFERENCES FROM r-PROTEIN STRUCTURE" and go from there. ...actually took other researchers 12 generations when they repeated the experiment. Got a source for that assertion?	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 04:22 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Apparently, we can add Google Scholar to the list of things you don't understand how to use. However, there is no "best one", as they each deal with very different things, so you'll have to fail to read and fail to understand them on your own. I will not spoon feed you beyond this, especially when you've already demonstrated an unwillingness or inability to learn. Lenski, R. E., 1995. Evolution in experimental populations of bacteria. In: Population Genetics of Bacteria, Society for General Micr…	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 04:09 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Why don't you show me the mutations that created ANY part of the cell; any cellular structure or machine. How about the origin and evolution of the ribosome? Or, maybe the origin and evolution of topoisomerases, which are enzymes that participate in the overwinding or underwinding of DNA? If evolution were a fact that should be easy. It is a fact, an observable, testable, repeatable fact. We have directly observed it occurring, we have tested it, and we have repeated it, perhaps most notably in …	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 03:47 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence I've given you MLA formatted citations for everything you requested. There's no "running around searching" to be done, you have the citation pointing directly at the peer-reviewed papers showing you the information you requested. Your unwillingness or inability to look at said papers does not invalidate the evidence they provide.	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 03:06 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Hit the reply button directly underneath the comment you actually intend to reply to.	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 02:34 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence I have given you MLA formatted citations for everything you requested here. If you are going to continue to ask for things I have already given you, this will be a very tedious conversation indeed.	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 02:33 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Oh hey, you forgot how to use Reddit again... As if you have a replicator. We have a number of candidates to fill that role, actually. As usual, your self-imposed ignorance does not define the sum of human knowledge. And you can't have a cell without a membrane. As stated, the montmorillonite clay that catalyzes the formation of polynucleotide chains also attracts tidally-generated lipids. What do you think a lipid micelle is? If you are going to continue to ask for things I have already given y…	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 02:31 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Oh hey, you forgot how to use reddit again... I already gave you such a list here. If you are going to continue to ask for things I have already given you, this will be a very tedious conversation indeed.	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 02:22 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Get back to me tomorrow, after you've had a chance to read (and fail to comprehend) the rest of what I wrote.	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 02:13 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Fortunately for the world at large, your willful ignorance doesn't define reality. In 2001 Louis Allamandola demonstrated that organic material can be synthesized in deep space using a "Chill vacuum chamber"--a lot of biomolecules: nitriles, ethers, alcohols, ring-like hydrocarbons, and others. In a complementary experiment, Jennifer Blank at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory reported: "Through subsequent chemical analysis, the team discovered that the initial amino acids in the mixture had …	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 04:41 AM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence I'm dying show me any case that proves random mutation (plus natural selection) can add information... We have observed the evolution of increased genetic variety in a population (Lenski 1995; Lenski et al. 1991) increased genetic material (Alves et al. 2001; Brown et al. 1998; Hughes and Friedman 2003; Lynch and Conery 2000; Ohta 2003) novel genetic material (Knox et al. 1996; Park et al. 1996) novel genetically-regulated abilities (Prijambada et al. 1995) If these do not qualify as information…	/r/MarriedRedPill	04/04/17 04:10 AM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence Show me some something dumb-luck-daddy ever did. Anything. Fine-tuned or not. Luck? Is your short term memory impaired? We already went over this. You don't know the origin of anything anywhere. We have solid scientific evidence indicating the origins of the universe, DNA, the cell, etc. You have... a book that is demonstrably incorrect about damn near everything, making more demonstrably false assertions about origins, and you're gullible enough to believe it. It's all a mindless, non scientifi…	/r/MarriedRedPill	02/04/17 10:01 PM
1	Christianity and Outcome Independence ...and there you go, demonstrating clearly that you are either unwilling or incapable of understanding even the most basic thrust of the argument. Instead, you dismiss it and try to hide behind the arguments you think you already understand and try to claim some kind of intellectual high ground. Sorry junior, but it's pretty transparent.	/r/MarriedRedPill	01/04/17 02:06 AM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence You are assuming precisely that. You appealed to it directly by talking about origins and giving exactly the false dichotomy you did! I already told you why the fine tuning argument is flawed, no multiverse involved. Your unwillingness or inability to understand my explanation does not invalidate it.	/r/MarriedRedPill	31/03/17 07:15 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence Oh hey, you did reply to me, you just don't know how to hit the right reply button... You're making another false dichotomy. You're assuming that the physical laws of our universe could have existed in some form other than they do, with no basis for that assumption.	/r/MarriedRedPill	31/03/17 07:03 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence So it isn't chance, luck, or randomness that determines what happens in physical interactions. Imagine that. Here's where you say that those forces were set "just so", and then I refer you back to the fact that you're making a fine tuning argument, and why that fails.	/r/MarriedRedPill	30/03/17 08:08 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence Tell me, if I hold a ball in my outstretched arm and release it, what happens?	/r/MarriedRedPill	30/03/17 07:52 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence Your unwillingness or inability to understand the explanation does not invalidate it.	/r/MarriedRedPill	30/03/17 07:50 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence Oh, and I should mention that no, fine tuning is not a problem precisely for the reasons I outlined above. A much better term for actually discussing nature would be "precision", but bear in mind that every parameter that must be "finely tuned" in models (for example, the cosmological constant or the strength of gravity) is merely a number which our particular models require in order to highlight something that appears to remain constant. Without the models that these constants are tuned for, th…	/r/MarriedRedPill	30/03/17 06:59 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence Tell me, if I hold a ball in my outstretched arm and release it, what happens?	/r/MarriedRedPill	30/03/17 01:22 PM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence You're still making the same fine tuning argument, because you're arguing that there was a fine tuner.	/r/MarriedRedPill	30/03/17 11:21 AM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence You're just making a "fine tuning" argument without coming out and saying it. Fine tuning is a scientific term which applies to physical modeling. It describes a situation where one or more parameters of the model must be very precise when the model itself does not offer mechanisms to constrain their values. So-called "fine tuning problems" are not problems in that they cannot be solved naturally, but because they indicate that the given model is incomplete. The existence of fine tuning in physi…	/r/MarriedRedPill	30/03/17 02:33 AM
2	Christianity and Outcome Independence The fact that you attribute such things to "luck" shows just how little about the real world you understand.	/r/MarriedRedPill	29/03/17 06:30 PM