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Arctolamia Archive

View 7 posts and 267 comments by Arctolamia on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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8

No, people don’t make this assumption just because someone is rejected. Oh, bullshit. The single most common phrase lobbed at lonely men is "work on yourself." That's a literal assumption that the man in question is being lazy and just not working hard enough.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 02:47 PM
3

There's a lot of misogynistic men who have girlfriends and wives, too. Why'd you omit that one?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 02:40 PM
9

Why should I do date overweight women? I'm not overweight.
/r/PurplePillDebate14/05/26 02:37 PM
–

I don't think you can communicate "I post bitter things about dating online" through body language, no. If you think you can infer such things from body language, you're just being a presumptuous cock.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/05/26 02:14 AM
6

The only social skill needed to conceal bitterness about dating is refraining from stating your thoughts about dating. My understanding is fine and your condescension is unwarranted.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 10:56 PM
9

I'm not confused about anything. The motte is "Women can sense your bitterness/toxicity" and the Bailey is "Oh, well not all women can do it, and "particular" women can't do it for "particular" men, and it doesn't really apply until they reach some unspecified age, and...." Even if some particular women are wrong about some particular man that doesn't change the fact that when people are discussing "intuition" as a concept what they are actually discussing is women's experience and their discern…
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 09:48 PM
26

Lonely men are constantly told that they're rejected because women can sense their bitterness or toxicity. This a huge motte and bailey where people mock the stupid thing that's said constantly, and then people like you say "Uhhh, well, no one actually means that thing they constantly say."
/r/PurplePillDebate12/05/26 06:09 PM
7

If they're not getting "CLEAR, ENTHUSIASTIC, and CONSISTENT reciprocal interest" in the first place, then you're not really diagnosing the issue. You're just describing a a faux pas made after they've already failed to attract someone.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/26 06:36 PM
1

If you didn't know how to season food would it be a deflection to say that you don't how to cook and flavor food? Not necessarily, because seasoning is just one part of cooking. But that analogy doesn't hold because flirting isn't a subset of flirting. Flirting is just flirting, and it's reasonable to expect someone to be able to explain it if they're claiming that there are "good" and "bad" iterations of it.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/26 06:09 PM
5

So you're saying that lonely men are bad at identifying when someone is interested, but you're also saying that people, generally, can never know for sure when someone is interested? How do you square that?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/26 06:07 PM
5

not good at identifying when someone is interested How do you know when someone is interested?
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/26 06:01 PM
3

Lonely men probably send those signals and ideas faster as they have a lower level of social skills. Some verification needed. I don't think anyone really knows "how to flirt," since I've never received an actual explanation of how it works. People just say "Oh, you must be bad at flirting" and then endlessly deflect when you ask what that means.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/26 06:00 PM
6

The last girl I had a date with had just broken up with a guy who would go around biting her and her friends. People just define "social skills" to mean "things that attractive people do," the term has little-to-nothing to do with actual social competence.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/26 05:57 PM
3

"Eventually." So it's not even relevant to lonely men who are primarily rejected from the get-go.
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/26 05:55 PM
2

Do you think you really have the social skills to run that long of a con? Lol, the "con" of not articulating everything that goes through your mind? Unless you have a profound vocal variant of Tourette syndrome, I'd say everyone has that "social skill."
/r/PurplePillDebate19/04/26 05:51 PM
2

What does "social competent" mean?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/04/26 07:02 PM
1

I don't think you looked very closely. I guess what I'm saying OP, is that yes they probably can detect toxic thoughts, because thoughts inevitably lead to behaviors. Typically most men who buy into and spout misogynistic rhetoric online have IRL “tells” that allow reasonable women to discern their true nature relatively quickly. Women (and men!) can detect bad vibes, but the sensitivity of the detection process varies considerably between individuals.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/26 04:23 PM
2

Also why'd you assume that having intuition, something that's pretty normal human quality, means that you'll somehow be immune to being fooled by anyone at all. If you're claiming to have the ability to sense that a man is frustrated with dating and posts toxic stuff online, I'd expect you to be able to sense that someone has actually physically hurt women. Since, you know, the latter is significantly more toxic than the former.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/26 02:48 PM
3

I made a whole "Debate" post about this. Multiple people claimed the ability to sense men who are toxic or misogynistic, though of course none of them specified how they achieve this https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1pegcd9/women_cannot_detect_the_toxic_thoughts_of_lonely/
/r/PurplePillDebate09/04/26 02:46 PM
14

The "sense toxicity" claims go well beyond "I can recognize misogynistic language." Every single time someone says "I don't speak this way IRL," it's still claimed that women are able to somehow sense their toxicity. The mechanism for doing this is never actually explained, of course.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/04/26 09:45 PM
9

You led off with "We are able to see it" (meaning the misogyny/toxicity of men who don't overtly profess such sentiments), and then followed that up with "Well, some of us can't, and we can't do it with everyone, and we can't do it if they don't exhibit those behaviors." Hilarious.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/04/26 05:00 PM
2

If people mean "confidence and charisma", they should just say that instead of "personality." Like, I just searched the words "personality" and "misogyny" on IncelTear. There's a lot of people effectively using "personality" to mean "morality." It's not insane to infer that people mean "your morality is bad" when they say "your personality is bad." https://search.pullpush.io/?subreddit=inceltear&type=comment&q=%22personality%22+%22misogyny%22&sort_type=created_utc&sort=desc
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/26 10:17 PM
3

The OP is very clearly talking about morality When people point out that someone who was aggressive, arrogant, or even cruel in school is now successful with women... And then the wookie person used "if you are good you will get a woman" as a rough summation of what OP was saying. Like, what context am I missing here? The line is pretty straight: OP talks about relevance of morality in dating->Wookie says "People aren't saying good morality guarantees a relationship, they're saying bad morality …
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/26 09:58 PM
5

What did I misinterpret? Solondthewookiee presented "your personality is bad and is actively repelling women" as the actual meaning of what people misinterpret as ""if you are good you will get a woman." They were pointing out that "A lack of X trait can doom you" doesn't necessarily imply "A surplus of X will save you." "If you are good" and "your personality" are still used to refer to the same trait.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/26 09:43 PM
10

By “bad personality” they seem to be talking about charisma, social skills, confidence, masculine-frame, etc. No, it's frequently claimed that lonely men are alone because women "sense their toxicity." If people mean "charisma and confidence," then they should say "charisma and confidence."
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/26 09:18 PM
0

You aren't a person who values the person he is with and that means you really aren't any different than the guys you claim to despise. Uh....I think that not valuing the person you're with is morally better than being a serial killer. I really hope that your position is not a popular one.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/26 06:11 PM
4

Alternatively, the abusive men are hot or fun enough to offset being lame. Ah, there you go. Should've put that in your OP
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/26 06:04 PM
0

Huh? I didn't say that men who have trouble attracting partners can never be abusive. I said that men who are evidently abusive still manage to find partners. If "lame" men are precluded from intimacy, one would expect the men who've actually abused to be selected out.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/26 06:04 PM
0

I think abusive men are pretty "lame" but they don't seem to have trouble attracting partners.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/26 05:45 PM
0

Oh, well, my mistake. You've certainly done extensive research in this area.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/26 05:44 PM
-2

Being boring and/or believing in RP nonsense does not preclude one from finding a partner. Why would you make such a bad argument?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/04/26 05:29 PM
2

I do, it makes virtually no difference to my situation. In fact, my biggest success (attractive woman I just met coming home with me) was during a brief period where I was overweight.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/26 10:33 PM
7

ok but you have to become attractive for a partner to want you And then you ask "How do I be attractive?" and get told "Whoa man, it's not a video game!" There's no consistency to any of this, it's platitudes intended to shut lonely men up all the way down.
/r/PurplePillDebate03/04/26 09:34 PM
–

it could also be explained by prejudice. Like when, for example, people assume people from a certain ethnicity are this and that, so they have to make an extra effort to prove themselves. You mean, prejudice on the part of the person inferring toxicity? Like they just assume an unattractive man must be bitter about dating? That's basically making my point for me lmao
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 05:33 PM
–

How
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 05:25 PM
–

If someone does not explicitly state their disillusionment with dating, how is this conclusion made?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 05:22 PM
–

Dating. I thought I was pretty clear in the OP It is frequently claimed that women can sense the bitterness or frustration of men who vent about their dating failures online, and this keeps said men single. You can say "I'm so sick of being ghosted and getting my hopes up for nothing, dating is awful" without hating women.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 05:19 PM
–

yes, people can sense that How?
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 05:18 PM
–

I don't think every man who's frustrated with dating looks down on women. And a lot of men who are vocally misogynistic still manage to find partners. So I don't find any of this very responsive or persuasive.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 05:14 PM
–

...because pattern recognition and the purported "sixth sense" demonstrably claim very very often in this particular domain.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 05:08 PM
–

"Women reject you because they sense your toxicity" is a binary claim. I'm not removing any nuance from the claim I'm responding to.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 05:07 PM
–

Well, first off, my OP isn't about "hate." At least, not exclusively. Men are told that women can detect the mere fact of frustration and bitterness from repeated dating failure. I do not hate women and have still been told "women sense toxicity" when I say things like "I'm so sick of being flaked on and ghosted, dating is awful." "haha! women can be fooled if the guy has social skills! hahaha" is this it? No, that's almost the opposite of what I'm saying. My point is that we're frequently told …
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 05:06 PM
–

You're just claiming that the straight line exists, you're not explaining why "women sense their toxicity" is likelier than them being physically unattractive, or poor, or any number of things that can hurt one in dating
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 02:54 PM
–

Why would i like a man who will come to "seduce" me with phrases how women are evil, and i'm a bitch if i won't like him too You seem to be responding to claims not made in the OP
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 02:48 PM
–

I don't think that follows. You've established that the manosphere bitches about not being able to pull, and that they post toxic shit, but you haven't shown how the latter causes the former. And lonely men can bitch about dating without being part of the "manosphere."
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 02:47 PM
–

Glad you agree but I think you're supposed to respond to the auto mod post if you're not arguing with OP I don't personally really care but mods will likely delete your comment if you keep it here
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 02:41 PM
–

You seem to be claiming "People in the manosphere treat others poorly", which isn't really responsive to the OP.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/03/26 02:37 PM
5

This is basically dating. People applying get mad when rejected despite meeting zero qualifications. They see a job that says 220k+ and jump ignoring it takes a certain degree, certification, and clearance level. Or, alternately, you meet all of the purported qualifications, but when you say that people trot out some canard like "Oh, well dating isn't a video game. You can't expect to succeed just because you fulfill the stated criteria."
/r/PurplePillDebate16/01/26 08:28 PM
2

Last actual date I had was going to brunch, and then when we got there she said she wasn't hungry. I felt kind of weird but I had barely eaten so I got an omelette. In the immediate aftermath of the date, she said she had a good time, but within a few days said that she didn't think we were compatible. Anyway, we tried to stay friends, and when I was bitching about something else with dating, she told me that I was "TERRIBLY quiet" on first dates. I didn't totally agree with that characterizatio…
/r/PurplePillDebate14/01/26 09:29 PM
1

I am confident and witty, what now
/r/PurplePillDebate11/01/26 03:39 AM
0

It's more like saying "My paintings usually sell well, but my paintings of dogs don't sell well. I guess I'm bad at painting dogs", and then a bunch of people saying "NO, your SOCIAL SKILLS are the reason your paintings of dogs don't sell well" while refusing to explain how that makes any kind of sense.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/26 09:22 PM
1

Maybe it's the way you approach if you've gotten 10000 nos. You have to be asking multiple people out in the same venue to get numbers like that and that's offputting. Where and how should I be approaching women?
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/26 09:20 PM
1

Saying "I have a boyfriend" immediately.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/26 08:41 PM
0

All of those were very short lived, and it's about four yeses to 10000 nos. And one of the girls who came home with me didn't even do anything "sexual" exactly, it was just kind of a weird cuddling session.
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/26 03:23 AM
1

Just FYI, if you agree with me you're supposed to reply to one of the auto mod comments. Thanks for agreeing with me though!
/r/PurplePillDebate07/01/26 12:35 AM
1

Are you disagreeing with me? You seem to agree that it's lame to say "social skills" when you just mean "flirting."
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 10:41 PM
–

Is it self-pity if it's true? I fulfill everything you designated as "good social skills" and women are still repulsed by me. What now?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 10:39 PM
–

I can do everything in your "good social skills" column, may I please call myself ugly now
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:43 PM
8

Dunno how I'd place it numerically, but I'm probably on the extreme low end.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:39 PM
1

You aren't asking people to substantiate their argument. Yes, I am. Asking people to define good vs. bad flirting is asking people to substantiate their charges of "bad flirting." Wrack your brain: did I ever actually say that about you? I was under the impression that you were arguing that social skills are more likely to be the reason for my failure than physical appearance. My apologies if that is not the case.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:38 PM
1

It's not consistently working and I've cut back on my drinking recently, it's just pretty much the only thing that's ever worked. I get the occasional date from apps or social connections, but bars are pretty much the only place I've attained intimacy.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:24 PM
1

Bars are pretty much the only places I've had any success. Still a net failure, but the rare instances of women coming home with me or putting their tongue in my mouth have been from bars.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:15 PM
1

No, my belief is "People who refuse to substantiate their argument don't actually believe their argument." People who say "It's too complicated to explain" aren't even wrong because they're not making an argument in the first place. How should I know, given that I don't know you, never seen you in action, and have no context this other than your brief, undetailed, one-sided anecdotes? I dunno, you're the one who insists that I have poor social skills.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:13 PM
1

5'11, skinny but trying to bulk. Brown hair. White.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:11 PM
1

I need to build rapport before flirting? Have you never heard that you need to make your intentions clear early on?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:10 PM
1

"outside bars in the smoking area" is pretty close to what I've usually done, just not always in the smoking area. Remember when I said I was just really ugly
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:09 PM
1

I've approached many women and rarely even get a phone number. Is approaching not "non-passive"?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:07 PM
1

If you have two people telling you the same thing, one believes it's really that complicated, the other doesn't but won't admit it, how do you tell who is who? I don't think anyone actually believes that it's too complicated to explain. So I assume they're all category two. I do. OK, so how should I improve my social skills?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:06 PM
7

So I do fine socially, except when it comes to physically attracting people, but it has nothing to do with my physical appearance? Doesn't it seem more likely that physical features are causing failure with physical attraction?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:05 PM
0

lot of interest / questions to the other person, smiling, seeking out the other person’s company, physical closeness, physical touch, compliments, lauging at their jokes etc. That's what flirting is? Awesome, I'm already great at it.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:02 PM
1

Who and where should I be approaching? I'm very excited to learn that it's not about my looks, and I just need to start approaching somewhere else!
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 09:01 PM
3

I don't think "Blackpill" means "Prefers when people explain their argument instead of claiming that they don't understand the thing they profess to believe."
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:59 PM
1

It's reading her actions and body language in the context of knowing her specifically to come to the conclusion of whether escalation behaviors would be okay, and which ones would be well received. How am I supposed to know a woman I just met so intimately?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:58 PM
2

Usually get "not interested" hints right off the bat, but I'm more than able to have platonic conversations with women where I make them laugh. Yeah, I'm ugly. It gets frustrating having to constantly explain that and get condescending, contradictory spiels about social skills.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:57 PM
5

Saying "OK fuck off" to a stranger online is like a 5/10 on the social skills chart. It's not good but if everyone's social skills was judged by a bad moment like that, everyone would have bad social skills.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:56 PM
2

You used a lot of adjectives and I don't know if I always meet all of them, but I think most women I engage with would call me perceptive, engaging, chill, and personable at least.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:53 PM
2

That said it is not a guarantee. Nothing regarding interpersonal relationships is a guarantee. Do you understand that people say "You probably fail at dating because of poor social skills" far more often than they say "You probably fail at dating because of bad luck"?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:49 PM
1

Guys who have it don't miss IOI's and naturally progress things. Guys who lack it miss signs, leave her guessing if he's attracted back, or clumsily try to escalate things with women who aren't into them. OK, great. What IOIs should we be looking out for?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:47 PM
1

Did I give some suggestion that I'm in middle school? Not sure where this is coming from.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:46 PM
3

If it's not black and white, why do people categorically say "You fail at dating because of poor social skills"? I know how to take hints, and the hints are almost invariably "Not interested." That is not a social skill that actually helps with attraction.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:46 PM
6

I think getting irate during a discussion on an anonymous forum is a pretty minor violation of social norms, and that people with far more egregious violations of such are successful with dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:38 PM
4

I have indeed known men who were creepy and inappropriate but still did well with women. What now?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:31 PM
–

Heh, I actually got a Switch recently.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:13 PM
–

There's plenty of things other than video games where some kind of step-by-step guide can help you succeed. I think they just use video games for this analogy to rhetorically connect lonely men to a "loser" hobby.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 08:01 PM
–

Anyone who says "Dating isn't a video game, bro" is too dumb to argue with. They invariably end up making their own pitch for how to succeed in dating, even though the crux of the "not a video game" argument is that you can't expect any given strategy to help you with dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 07:56 PM
1

What choices can one make to not be Forever Alone?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 07:53 PM
3

Also, guys who want to blame everyone else because they refuse to work on their social skills and that lack of social skills makes people not want to talk to them. Now, I want to see evidence that there is a condition that makes men absolutely incapable of learning social skills whatsoever. I want to see some evidence that poor social skills are to blame for men who struggle with dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 07:49 PM
0

Not totally sure what you're saying here, are you saying women are attracted to men with money, which isn't necessarily suggestive of good genes, so the "natural selection" theory is bunk?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 03:31 PM
0

No, lots of women who find me funny have rejected me. I'm sure you have some snappy rejoinder like "oh sure, they said you were funny" but that's not it. I literally make money from being funny and it's not a quality that anyone around me doubts. "Women love funny guys" is just not true.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/01/26 03:30 PM
3

I don't think you need to be especially socially adept to refrain from saying toxic or misogynistic things. If you're claiming that women somehow infer toxicity or misogyny from eye movement or something, I'm gonna need some actual evidence.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 10:51 PM
0

If it's not a checklist, people should refrain from giving a checklist of qualities. I've had innumerable interactions where a woman lists her preferences, I tell her I meet those preferences, and then get accused of lying about my own virtues.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 10:48 PM
3

It’s just that these toxic attitudes will be impossible to hide as the social interaction goes on for long enough. This is very frequently claimed but literally never substantiated. We're all just supposed to sort of nod and say "Oh, yeah, sure."
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 09:57 PM
4

I don't know how to interpret this. I wasn't picking a fight, I'm just saying that sexual preferences can still be reasonably tied to "natural selection" even in the digital age.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 09:56 PM
3

Lol, how does one defeat said prophecy
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 09:52 PM
4

The "like a video game" canard has never made any fucking sense in any context. By saying "Treating dating like a video game hurts you in dating", they're still prescribing rules for succeeding in dating, which is the exact thing they're analogizing to being "like a video game" in the first place. I think it's just a way to rhetorically connect lonely men to video games. It's too stupid to be anything else.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 09:43 PM
12

Sexual preferences are still tied to good genes. I mean, there's a reason that the obese and disabled have a harder time.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 09:40 PM
-1

I think women being honest about their preferences would help a lot, but there's no way to really enforce that. At least in the US, a tax on saying "I love funny guys!" would probably fail on First Amendment grounds.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 09:39 PM
9

At most, people merely try to tell incels that becoming a hateful creep definitely won’t do them any favors if they’re struggling already. I mean, it's totally neutral. Hateful attractive people get laid all the time. This also assumes that people who post hateful things online say hateful things IRL, which isn't usually the case. This also leads to the round of discourse where people say that women can "sense" lonely men's toxic thoughts, but refuse to specify how they're able to do this or why…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/01/26 09:33 PM
7

The behaviors you described indeed sound creepy, but do you really think that the average man who gets called "creepy" is in the habit of taking their shoes off on public transportation?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/25 10:25 PM
7

Oh yeah, that would be really weird. But do you honestly think the average man who gets called "creepy" does such things?
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/25 10:23 PM
5

What is the "standard social script?" I've been told countless times that there's no script for social interaction.
/r/PurplePillDebate30/12/25 08:52 PM
2

All of the ones mentioned above I had met IRL, either through friends or just happenstance at bars. I've certainly used apps before, though I've mostly given up on them. They've gotten me a few dates, but most of my actual successes have been girls I met IRL. Not that I have many actual successes, there's like a couple other girls from bars I've made out with.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/25 08:00 PM
1

I have high-functioning autism, so let's just get that out there. It feels like malpractice not to disclose that, even if I'm not as certain of its relevance as others. Anyway, of the examples in the OP: the girl who gave me her number unprompted just didn't respond when I texted "Haha, so when are we playing Mario Kart?" (she had said I should come over to her place to play Mario Kart). I don't think I did anything wrong there. The first one who came home with me partook in things enthusiastica…
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/25 07:53 PM
1

The second girl who came home with me didn't really do anything with me, it was just kind of a weird cuddle session. The ones who gave/requested contact info never did anything intimate at all with me, they were conceivably just looking for an ego boost. When I put all these examples together I can see how it looks like I get a decent amount of female attention, but it's really just a few times per year and most don't even turn into a hookup, let alone a relationship.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/25 07:32 PM
1

Lol, no. I'm just ugly.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/25 07:23 PM
3

Sending a text saying "Hey, I don't think I'm feeling a second date" isn't a big deal either. It's almost trivially easy to write and send.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/25 03:54 AM
6

I mean, if I didn't want someone in my life, I wouldn't go out of my way to give them contact info. That's a very odd thing to do if you don't want someone to contact you.
/r/PurplePillDebate29/12/25 03:52 AM
2

If a man really wanted a woman then he would treat her better from the start. I'm not sure what you're saying here. You think all men who are ghosted have treated women poorly beforehand? Secondly those women could have easily seen something in you or any other man to make them think their life was in danger that you didn’t pick up on based off her past experience or the past experience she has either heard about from friends and family or seen online. And, as I said, if I thought there was a ch…
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/25 06:03 PM
5

You clearly have social skills. Thank you for winning me some arguments with other people.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/25 06:02 PM
3

So the ones who came home with me thought I could become violent if they didn't do what I wanted, but were just really certain that I wouldn't want them to do anything they didn't want to? That seems unlikely.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/25 06:00 PM
14

I've seen it countless times. Guy laments getting ghosted and women say that they have to ghost because a lot of men don't take rejection well.
/r/PurplePillDebate28/12/25 03:35 PM
10

"Treat women like they're people" is obvious. The point is that you don't treat all people exactly the same way, and you should treat women you're interested in a bit different.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 10:07 PM
16

Mostly making a joke because every lonely man has heard your advice a million times. I half-suspect this is all just bait.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 10:02 PM
–

It is in fact completely useless. I have other positive traits and attract women once in a while. Being funny has never been a factor. My entire life is a testament to the fact that "Women are attracted to funny men" is a complete myth.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 10:01 PM
–

I'm aware that it's (usually) not purported to be the only feature. But it's still completely useless to attracting women, and it's bizarre that so many of them want me to think otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 09:58 PM
–

I may have been unclear: a lot of women say that being funny itself is an attractive feature. It isn't, and I know that a million times over, but they still keep saying it.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 09:52 PM
11

FUCK, I've been attempting to lead a meaningless life this whole time!!!
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 09:46 PM
–

I'm fine with women having standards, I just wish their purported standards had some overlap with what they actually want. Nearly every woman says they love funny men, but I could fill a small country with women who found me hilarious and still rejected me. Something's not adding up.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 09:32 PM
3

Finding "social value" in yourself does not fill the hole of a relationship. I'm just saying that exactly 0 lonely men are going to take any kind of solace in what you've written there.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 09:28 PM
9

OK, and I would contend that the women who do enjoy casual sex very clearly have an easier time being single. Seems pretty open and shut.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 09:22 PM
7

Women don't like sex?
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 09:16 PM
5

If the reason you think you can’t find the right person is because you believe you’re objectively ugly/unlikeable/worthless, how the hell do you even like yourself? I like things about myself other than my physical features. Christ, you all really need to update your talking points. "Aha! But do you like yourself?" isn't blowing anyone's mind in 2025.
/r/PurplePillDebate26/12/25 09:13 PM
–

People usually like me
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 08:44 PM
–

I've had this discussion many times and am fairly burned out, but: I rarely have success with women. Early thirties and have made out with a couple women, a couple others have come home with me. Have dates every so often but never had an actual "girlfriend." I've been going out less lately because I'm trying to get in good shape, and "going out" usually=alcohol. Social network could be stronger, but it's not like I had a ton of success with women when my good friends all lived nearby and I saw t…
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 04:17 PM
–

I know these threads forbid "woe is me" posting, so I'm trying to phrase things carefully, but it's just so "blackpilling" (in the colloquial sense) to be well above average in that sense but still fail with women.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 02:16 PM
–

You earn $36,100 per year and have $3,100 in the bank Is this weighed down by kids just out of college or something? I made more than that at my first "grownup" job and it was difficult to make ends meet.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 02:09 PM
–

The other day someone said that the "average man" is 5'9, 200 pounds, and makes about 50k. If this is accurate then I never want to be told to "work on myself" ever again.
/r/PurplePillDebate22/12/25 02:03 PM
2

...yes, so in other words, women ghost for reasons other "fear of violence." Thank you for clarifying.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 04:18 PM
1

I know it's false because that described me to a T and I'm sure as hell not in the top 20% of men.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 04:18 PM
2

But, I mean, if you're acknowledging that those women weren't afraid of me getting violent, you have to concede that a lot of women ghost just out of convenience, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 03:54 PM
1

I don't know how to respond to things like this that are just blatantly false. You'e making things up. Do you expect people to not call you out for making things up?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 03:44 PM
5

But do you honestly believe that the women in the examples I gave were afraid of me getting violent?
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 03:40 PM
1

Fuck, thanks for confirming that I'm well above average!
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 03:39 PM
9

I don't really believe that. I've been ghosted by women who came home with me, who went on long walks alone with me, by women who gave me their number unprompted. Personally, I would refrain from doing any of those things if I thought there was even a 1% chance of someone harming me.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 03:35 PM
4

I read your comment. I don't doubt that you dated an asshole, I just don't believe that he said "I'm nice, that should be enough to attract you."
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 03:32 PM
2

The issue is some men think only being nice will get them a date or sex, No they don't. No one has actually said "I'm so nice, why won't women date me?" since 1998.
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 03:28 PM
10

I mean, it's good that you are honest about this, but do you understand that women very rarely give such feedback to men they reject
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 03:26 PM
17

It's constantly claimed that women can sense the toxicity or misogyny of lonely men, so it's groan-inducing to say "Oh, well you can't expect women to just know that their boyfriend is a toxic asshole at the outset."
/r/PurplePillDebate20/12/25 03:26 PM
1

I don't think "clean home" is that relevant to men who rarely or never get women to come to their place. But, for what's it's worth, the handful of women who've been to my place had no qualms with the cleanliness. Biggest complaint was that I had a few dryer sheets lying around. My grievance was more with the "complete jerk" and "interests outside of work" items, because men who fail those components get laid all the time.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/25 05:58 PM
1

God, I wish those bullet points were actually conducive to finding a partner. Please invite me into your land of imagination.
/r/PurplePillDebate18/12/25 02:36 PM
1

Sat next to me before her first drink came. Can't preclude possibility she was pregaming, but she didn't really seem drunk.
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/25 12:15 PM
1

Lol yeah I texted
/r/PurplePillDebate17/12/25 12:14 PM
4

OK fuck it, just remove this if it counts as "woe is me:" A few years ago I was at a bar, a woman recognized me from a brief meeting a few months prior, she made a point of sitting next to me, talked to me so much I felt bad because the friend she was with basically became a third wheel, said she reads everything I post on Facebook, said I should come over to her place sometime to play Mario Kart, and gave me her number unprompted. She then ghosted. I'm worried that any further editorializing wi…
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/25 09:39 PM
1

I could describe it neutrally, but I would definitely prefer that she not have ghosted so it still might be "complaining"
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/25 09:32 PM
3

What qualifies as "woe is me" content? I kinda want to share a story about a fairly bizarre ghosting I had one time, but I don't know if it'd just immediately get removed.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/25 09:22 PM
1

What qualifies as "woe is me" content? I kinda want to share a story about a fairly bizarre ghosting I had one time, but I don't know if it'd just immediately get removed.
/r/PurplePillDebate16/12/25 09:21 PM
4

I can't tell if this is ironic but either way it's genuinely funny. It reminds me of Elaine saying telling the waitress "You are doing a wonderful job, by the way" to demonstrate that she's a good humanitarian https://youtu.be/B9PgLazX31g?si=WFLvNTcLH3Int3WZ&t=93
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 09:11 PM
2

Have you ever seen someone say "This guy really helped me! Before I met him, I was failing. But now, I'm failing!"
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 08:43 PM
2

You said that it "helps" with dating, with no other qualifier. If you continue to fail at something, you were not helped. Do you understand now?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 08:22 PM
3

Women are especially keen at picking up social signals that a man is desperate, pathetic, thirsty, low confidence, etc. Self improve until these ugly traits are gone and your chances of getting women increase. Keyword increase, its not guaranteed. I understand that this is your interpretation of "self-improvement." It does not follow from such that it's what people usually mean when they say "Work on yourself."
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 08:21 PM
0

When people say work on “self improvement” they usually mean fix how desperate and low self esteem you are. A lot of men for some reason think self improvement means gym + shower = pussy galore. Why did you include the "gym + shower = pussy galore" part, if not to contrast it against the purported "actual" meaning of self-improvement?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 08:17 PM
0

Verification on people who say "Work on yourself" excluding fashion and fitness from their idea of self-improvement. That seems like a pretty bold claim, since fashion and fitness are common dating advice.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 08:14 PM
10

The thing is, its hard to just flat tell someone they are awkward, and not good at communicating in a way women like. People will say this and then refuse to explain how to communicate "in a way women like."
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 08:12 PM
2

Do you understand that if you say "I like ginger ale" and "I dislike ginger ale" in the same paragraph, you still said "I like ginger ale"
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 08:11 PM
2

I don't believe that. I'm literally quoting your own words back at you.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 07:02 PM
1

I think a general way to think of it that is more consistent is understanding that "working on yourself" should mean that you have some degree self-fulfillment and self love. You think this is what people mean when they say "work on yourself"? If someone told me to work on myself, and I said "I have self-fulfillment and self-love", they would respond "Oh, never mind, you're all good then"?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 06:47 PM
1

That's a mechanistic way to look at relationships, and indirectly a mechanistic way to look at women. That will come out in interactionsat some point, and probably sooner than later. How?
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 06:45 PM
3

"Self improvement will help you in dating" is a guarantee. It contains no qualifiers. We're getting away from the actual subject of the OP but I think you need to review your whole thought process here.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 06:43 PM
1

When people say work on “self improvement” they usually mean fix how desperate and low self esteem you are. Some verification needed.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 06:42 PM
5

Not sure if you're being ironic, but it's not "lying" to not disclose your precise motivation for doing something.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 06:38 PM
2

Not even sure what you're trying to say at this point.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 03:17 PM
1

Constantly fishing for compliments is obnoxious behavior, but that's a different statement than "Self-improvement doesn't count if you do it to attract women."
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 03:11 PM
3

It seems like you're not really disagreeing with the brunt of my OP. The impetus for self-improvement will usually have multiple components, and trying to attract people will often be one of them. OP is me disagreeing with people who think that trying to attract women totally negates self-improvement. But most losers just keep on giving excuses and non answers to questions of how to improve better and eventually people just go "oh this guy is a loser and just wanna complain" and you just move on…
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 03:05 PM
3

I'm not sure what "putting others down" has to do with anything. That's certainly a facet of the Incel subculture, but plenty of lonely men still get told to work on themselves without associating with them.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 02:59 PM
9

It seems like you should be "spelling it out" for people who tell lonely men to improve themselves, since they're the ones advocating self-improving for other people.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 02:55 PM
2

If someone says "work on yourself" in response to someone complaining about dating, there's obviously implying that self-improvement will help you in dating. No point is being missed if you respond by saying "Self-improvement did not help me attract anyone."
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 02:54 PM
2

Telling someone who struggles with dating to work on themselves, and then saying "No, you can't work on yourself with the intention of improving dating" is moving the goalposts. There's no way around that.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 02:44 PM
1

That seems a bit off-topic. Joining hobby groups isn't usually what people mean when they say "work on yourself." I'm referring to things that people do with the intent of being more attractive, which is why I mentioned fitness and fashion.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 02:39 PM
3

Am I missing something? How is the title and the content of the post related? A lot of people claim that the impetus for self-improvement does matter, as I explain in the post. I don't think anyone is stunned when a loser just keep giving excuses instead of building a constructive conversation to answer the "Work on yourself" advise. I disagree that someone who explains that they've worked on themselves is necessarily a loser.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 02:38 PM
12

So it seems that the solution here is to just not utter the words "I got into fitness/fashion/interesting hobbies primarily to attract women." There's no issue with actually doing it.
/r/PurplePillDebate15/12/25 02:36 PM
1

I am capable of banter and humor. When should I begin touching?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/25 12:24 AM
1

/u/barely-moral, can you please clarify whether "a percentage of men feel lonely and are unable to attract a partner" refers to lonely men in general or a narrower subset of that group?
/r/PurplePillDebate14/12/25 12:09 AM
3

Explaining why a percentage of men feel lonely and are unable to attract a partner People have already explained that: Those men are lazy assholes. Like, what are we doing here? You're saying "quote me" as though I made some outrageous inference, when I was just plainly quoting something you wrote a few hours ago. Are you just trolling?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 11:08 PM
3

If they can't even make friends, they have no hope in dating. Probably, but you categorically said that all lonely men are lazy assholes, regardless of their ability to make friends. I need you guys to stop pretending you're not talking about yourselves. I was quite clearly talking about myself in my last post. Are you even responding to the right post here?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 10:59 PM
3

That's not an answer, but in any case: I disagree because most people like me and I'm still very unsuccessful in dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 10:51 PM
2

I don't think you read the OP
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 10:51 PM
2

I think you should refrain from saying "Women can sense misogyny from lonely men" if you actually mean "I infer misogyny from misogynistic statements, and infer that someone is a loser if they talk about themselves too much and are rude to waitstaff."
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 07:31 PM
1

Being rude to waitstaff sounds like a generally shitty person, not necessarily a misogynist. "Not taking a keen interest in the conversation" could be misogyny but it's hard to infer that unless you've seen the person in a lot of other conversations. They could just be shy, or just incompatible with the person they're talking to. "Not mansplainingand only speaking 40-50% of the time balancing her and your interests is another one" is a weird example because most lonely men aren't going to be tal…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 07:25 PM
0

OK, so when people say "Women can sense your misogyny", they mean "You ignore older and unattractive women"? So the misogyny sensing only works if old and unattractive women are present?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 07:15 PM
1

I too would be able to infer "small-minded person" from "doesn’t take interest in society at large." Liking pictures of porn stars seems like a minor red flag, you should at least use an alt for that. Doesn't really seem related to the claim that women can sense misogyny from lonely men. If I’m with a man and he doesn’t talk to my less attractive friends the way he speaks to my conventionally hot friends… that’s an indicator. There's a few variables here, but people tend to act a bit differently…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 07:11 PM
5

Some women can sense misogyny from some incels. I agree: if an incel says something misogynistic, it's trivially easy to infer misogyny from that. But the people making the "Women can sense your misogyny" claim are usually saying that those who don't espouse misogynistic rhetoric IRL still somehow get clocked as misogynists. You acknowledge that that is totally unfounded, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 06:59 PM
2

Explaining that a guy has autism is not an excuse for that man to never learn social skills. I literally just made a "Debate" thread where I said that people should be able to explain how to flirt if it's an actual skill. Predictably, no one actually explained how to flirt and just defaulted to "Sorry, can't explain, too complicated." My general social life is fine and receive few complains about my general "social skills." I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do in the context of dating, wh…
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 06:55 PM
1

People have already explained that: Those men are lazy assholes. Wait, what type of work and quantity thereof is necessary to attract women?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 06:51 PM
4

The women going for abusers ( if those abusive qualities aren’t masked) are usually sad, lonely, low self-esteem women. Sometimes assholes themselves. OK, so you acknowledge that it's very stupid when people say lonely men are single because women sense their misogyny and/or toxicity, right?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 06:49 PM
3

"Women can sense your misogyny" is hyperbole? What is the grain of truth therein?
/r/PurplePillDebate13/12/25 06:39 PM
6

Nevermind, I just saw your "The only men i know that aren’t in relationships literally make no effort at all" post and I'm not interested in anything else you have to say.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/25 09:29 PM
8

The people who say "Women can sense your misogyny and that's why you're single" are the ones acting like women are a monolith. This is a weird post.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/25 07:43 PM
6

That doesn't really answer the question of why people say "Misogyny is the reason you're single." You've explained why some misogynistic men are seen as attractive, but you haven't explained why people keep saying the blatantly false thing.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/25 07:39 PM
2

You just said "not being misogynistic is the bare minimum" and then gave an example of a misogynist who succeeds in dating.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/25 07:36 PM
1

I said in the OP that there may have been men who said "I'm so nice, why won't women date me?" back in the 90s. I don't know the exact origin and drift of "friend zone", but said term existing doesn't contradict anything I'm saying.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/25 12:31 AM
1

Your point was to give an example that didn't support your thesis?
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/25 12:15 AM
2

I understand that you feel "Nice guy" has evolved to mean "Bitter entitled guy." A lot of people in this thread feel that it means completely different things. "Entitled bitter guy" is not significantly more letters than "nice guy", so you should just use the former term to avoid confusion.
/r/PurplePillDebate12/12/25 12:12 AM
0

If someone is referring to an entitled bitter guy, they should say "entitled bitter guy" instead of a term that means something else.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 11:11 PM
1

I think it's odd that you think rebutting a sentiment like "Women can sense toxicity" can only be done if someone is a "nice guy." So, if a woman were to refute that sentiment, she would be a nice guy?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 09:47 PM
1

What are you even trying to argue here? That if someone in a car vs. bike safety forum said "Car accidents never happen", you should refrain from correcting them?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 09:44 PM
3

Which? I'm not gonna sit here clicking links all day, just give me your best example.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 09:40 PM
1

People dislike seeing falsehoods posted. If someone says "car accidents never happen" and I respond with a list of car crashes, I'm not making any claim about what should happen. I'm just saying what actually happens.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 09:37 PM
1

I don't know the exact intentions of everyone who posts "Women like bad men." I do know there's at least one explanation that wouldn't require the poster to be a "nice guy:" it's often claimed that women can sniff out toxicity or misogyny, and they're posting a refutation. Do you disagree?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 09:23 PM
1

And "Women like bad boys" remains a different claim than "Being nice should be sufficient to attract women."
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 09:20 PM
1

If it's not an urban legend, it should be easy to find an example. The examples I've received so far have just been men being generally unpleasant or observing that assholes often get laid.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 09:14 PM
1

They apparently believe that being an asshole will help them attract women, which is different than saying "Being nice should be sufficient to attract women."
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 09:12 PM
1

If someone says "Women don't sleep with bad men", and someone rebuts that by giving an example of a woman sleeping with a bad man, you take that as evidence that they believe that niceness should be sufficient to attract someone?
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 09:08 PM
4

The first post is lamenting that women's stated preferences don't match their actual preferences, but he doesn't say anything about being nice. Second post says that women take advantage of him and women lie a lot. He does not say that being nice should be sufficient to attract women. Third post is a very awkward sexual proposition that includes the guy telling the girl that past partners have treated her poorly. He does not say that being nice should be sufficient to attract someone.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:58 PM
3

And "Why don't women like me? I'm nice!" isn't implied by men lamenting that "bad boys" get laid. It's frequently asserted that women dislike toxic men, one could very well seek to refute that claim without saying anything about their niceness or the desirability thereof.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:53 PM
4

If you've read My_House_on_Mars's posts long enough, you know the silent part is "I eat babies." And we know this because she eats babies.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:46 PM
1

That seems to be someone genuinely confused about what is connoted by the term "nice guy", not someone saying "I'm nice, why aren't women attracted to me?"
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:42 PM
1

Someone always whines about how women hate nice guys OK see, this is what I've never actually seen, and saying that you've seen it without providing an example doesn't persuade me otherwise.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:33 PM
3

It sounds like you're basically describing a pushover. A bunch of other people here have described "Nice guys" in different ways, which basically gets to my point that the term leads to a lot of people talking past each other.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:31 PM
3

Implications and sub text are indeed real things. Obituaries used to say "He never married" in gay men's obituaries, because you couldn't outright say that someone was gay. It was a specific phrase widely recognized as shorthand for what couldn't be stated overtly. "I hate seeing bad boys get laid" could be said by someone relaying a single example from their life without any broader point, or by someone refuting someone saying "Bad boys don't get laid", or any other number of things. It does no…
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:29 PM
8

Yep. When I was in school, my history teacher asked me which US president had served two non-consecutive terms. I said "William Henry Harrison", he said "No, sorry, it's Grover Cleveland." I said "Oh, sounds like you're being a bit autistic there" and he conceded that I was right, on the basis that he didn't want to be called autistic.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:24 PM
3

I'm not advocating for linguistic prescriptivism, but I am advocating for clarity and precision. The literal meaning of "Nice guy" was conceived recently enough that many people will still think of that when they hear the term. There's plenty of other words for men who are bitter or entitled or whatever.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:22 PM
2

I don't think it's productive to ascribe positions to people that they haven't actually stated. I could say "Your post implies that you think poor people aren't working hard enough" and I don't think you would find that very fair.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:21 PM
7

Slightly less snarky answer: I think precision in language is a good thing, particularly when you're dealing with contentious issues with a lot of contested definitions. Saying "I hate nice guys" when you mean "I hate men who act entitled to sex" is going to cause a lot of people to talk past each other.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:09 PM
7

I like terms to be used correctly instead of incorrectly.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:07 PM
7

If that's the case, I think people should work on their vocabulary.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:05 PM
2

We have the term "orbiter" for that. There can obviously be overlap, but the defining quality of the "Nice guy" is obviously their emphasis on niceness.
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:04 PM
1

OK, but "There are men who act rude or obnoxious and then claim to be good people" does not substantiate the claim "There are men who think that being nice is sufficient to attract women" and/or the claim "There are men who think their niceness is repelling women."
/r/PurplePillDebate11/12/25 08:01 PM
1

Men who consistently fail with women do all that?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 02:59 PM
2

You can tell that the food tasted bad even if you can't point out what makes the food taste bad Sure. You also know what food you ate, so this isn't analogous to people who say "You probably flirt poorly" without specifics.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 02:58 PM
1

Also, to be perfectly honest, I do feel like I could explain it. It's just that explaining it well would be a massive, massive undertaking (for the reasons described) that far exceeds my interest. Well, give it a shot
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 02:55 PM
6

I know. I'm saying the example you gave is something that would come before flirting could even happen, so it doesn't give any insight on flirting.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 01:23 AM
1

You can infer emotions based on facial expressions, but there's a whole lotta context there. Someone could look angry because they just got a speeding ticket and then stubbed their toe, it's one hell of a leap to say that they must have resentment against women based on their facial expression. And I don't really see how 😬 or 😐 indicate resentment. The former just looks like apprehension and the latter is literally a blank facial expression.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 01:21 AM
4

Successful flirting, in my assessment, comes down to how you deal with many variables. What works on one woman might not work on another, what works on both in one setting won't work in another, what works in both setting work work if you or her are in either of two different moods. People who honestly try to explain this end up writing books or, these days, producing entire Youtube channels. And even then, they aren't coming close to addressing the extent of nuance of life. OK, so why tell some…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 01:16 AM
1

What facial expressions indicate "simmering resentment"?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 01:04 AM
2

OK, and what are the specific actions that are "awkward and off putting and makes women’s skin crawl"?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:56 AM
4

I probably have, but I didn't try to pretend that such a sensation made me perceptive or intuitive. Nor did I try to say that an entire demographic necessarily gave that sensation of unease to women.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:55 AM
3

Are you responding to the right post? I did not request a step-by-step flirting script, I requested that people stop saying "You probably flirt poorly" if they can't explain what that means.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:54 AM
1

For example, most of the dudes in this sub have abhorrent vibes/attitudes/demeanor online and I guarantee it's not much different IRL When people say "lonely men give bad vibes", they're claiming the bad vibes are connected to the loneliness. This may come as a shock, but a lot of men with abhorrent vibes/attitudes/demeanor are still successful with women.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:53 AM
1

OK, so flirting well is about having body language that isn't "stiff as a board", and also having natural conversation? That's it?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:48 AM
1

Well, we can strike #3 from the list. The "women can sense toxicity" thing was a CMV thread, people should respond with the aim of persuasion. As for the other two: The subject matter itself, particularly when they are primarily based in feelings. Feelings are, by nature, pre-intellectual: we experience them prior to generating a conscious thought. Whatever we derive from conscious thought it always going to be easier to explain, since they are essentially explained already in our minds. For wha…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:47 AM
6

That sounds like bad social skills generally, not an example of flirting. And I see no indication that it's something commonly exhibited by lonely men.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:44 AM
4

If you can't describe what gives you the bad vibes, you're not making an actual argument.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:40 AM
3

OK, and what is the "crashing into a mountainside" equivalent to flirting that is commonly practiced by lonely men?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:38 AM
6

I'm not talking about one's own preconscious instincts, I'm talking about people who make specific arguments about other people. "Lonely men give off bad vibes" is not an explanation of one's ability to accurately infer the internal thoughts of others.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:38 AM
4

OK, so do you understand why it makes no sense to tell lonely men that they're probably bad at flirting?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:36 AM
2

No, that's just me being sarcastic because "Body language" is an incredibly general term. Everyone displays some type of "body language" at all times, saying you should employ "body language" while flirting is like saying you should be awake while performing major surgery.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:33 AM
9

I think you should be able to specifically describe the subtle phenomena in question if you're arguing that someone is doing something wrong. You don't get to say "You're flirting wrong" and then say "Nah, I can't describe what you're doing wrong." It's one or the other.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:31 AM
5

Good guy respects boundaries even if they conflict with what he wants, without pressuring or complaining. That is simple and no one disagrees with it. Flirting is just starting a conversation in some light banter form and then judging whether the other person is participating happily or humoring you. (And women suck at it as much as men do.) This does not suffice because many people identify flirting as the thing that lonely men are doing wrong, and plenty of lonely men are capable of making lig…
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:29 AM
3

And if you aren't consciously aware of those specifics, you should refrain from pretending that you hold any insight on the matter. Where am I going astray here?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:26 AM
3

OK, so why are people in the habit of saying "You're probably flirting wrong" if they're not even aware of how to do it correctly?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:26 AM
4

Yes, they're hard to explain if you don't understand how they work. And if you don't understand how something works, you should refrain from telling people that they're doing it the wrong way.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:24 AM
4

The fact that the process in abstract is explicable is unrelated to whether the individual instances of instinctice relational aversion can be sufficiently explained with reference to specific stimuli or evidence. I don't really buy that. The general phenomenon is comprised of individual examples. This is just an attempt to avoid giving any falsifiable specifics.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:23 AM
2

Body language and natural conversation is how you do it well imo. Oh God, I've been forgetting to bring my body with me when I flirt. This is embarrassing.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:20 AM
2

You're defending people being unable to explain subconscious reactions by explaining subconscious reactions?
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:16 AM
11

You've never gotten a bad feeling from someone that turned out to be right? Yes, I've gotten bad vibes from people who behaved inappropriately, whether that was being drunk and obnoxious, being overly aggressive etc. I've never insisted that I can detect toxicity from specific actions and then refused to specify those actions, though.
/r/PurplePillDebate09/12/25 12:15 AM
1

Sniff out insecurity How?
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/25 08:39 PM
2

I mean, I'm personally interested in actionable advice that actually works. Nothing has ever actually improved my dating prospects except for dumb luck.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/25 06:35 PM
1

I got to the part where it unironically tells men to shower and brush their teeth. Not interested in anything else it has to say after that.
/r/PurplePillDebate08/12/25 06:34 PM
5

It's meaner to think I'm too stupid to know what that actually means.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/25 02:49 AM
2

Perhaps they simply lack the proverbial ring of truth - the aggressive semi-confrontational vitality and interpersonal friction that comes with authenticity. That's not a specific behavior, that's just using different words to say the same thing again.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/25 02:40 AM
4

God, yes, please. It's insulting when you pretend it's about something else.
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/25 02:38 AM
1

If I were to try, I'd say that vibes are the gestalt of several minor variables in style, speech and behavior, insignificant on their own, but which trigger a subconscious pattern-recognition response leading to emotional feedback. OK, what style, speech, and behaviors are demonstrated by lonely men that make women aware of their inmost toxic thoughts?
/r/PurplePillDebate06/12/25 02:36 AM
3

At least annoyance, sure. But recognizing that someone is annoyed and jumping to "He posts toxic things online" is a really big leap.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 04:22 AM
5

You can tone down the sarcasm. Yes, it's not remarkable to say that false positives and false negatives can both happen. What's remarkable is the claim that people who get a lot of false positives on cases that should be easy (abusive men) are somehow getting a lot of true positives when it comes to inferences that would necessarily have to be a lot more subtle.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 04:21 AM
3

I'm not overweight and I've always kept my hair short. Not a huge fashion person but I have some nice shirts.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 01:32 AM
7

signs of insecurity That's not a behavior, and the rest of your list are just broad categories with no specifics.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 01:29 AM
10

Why would you respond to a "CMV" post if you had no intention of changing someone's mind? And anyway, if you list these "tells", is it going to be the first time those words have been printed or something? I highly doubt you're going to say something that gives abusive men some heretofore concealed knowledge.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 01:12 AM
6

But we do detect certain behaviors quickly OK, what behaviors?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 01:07 AM
0

You want me to use my own life experience to make your argument for you? Why don't you just list the things that led you to your own conclusion?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 01:06 AM
11

No, women reject me because I'm ugly. Were you trying to do a "gotcha" here?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 01:06 AM
4

OK, how are they bringing their behavior offline without being aware of it?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 01:05 AM
8

Typically most men who buy into and spout misogynistic rhetoric online have IRL “tells” that allow reasonable women to discern their true nature relatively quickly. OK, and what are these tells?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 01:05 AM
12

I guess what I'm saying OP, is that yes they probably can detect toxic thoughts, because thoughts inevitably lead to behaviors. I don't want to ignore the rest of your post because you seem to have put some effort into it, but this is the only part where you're directly dealing with the central claim of the OP, and you're just kinda saying "Oh, well lonely men probably do stuff that gives women access to their thoughts", but you haven't what those behaviors are or how women accurately infer toxi…
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 12:35 AM
1

Common sense suggests that people can be moody for a lot of reasons and jumping to "I bet he posts toxic things on the internet!" is one hell of a leap.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 12:29 AM
4

I think the inability to sense actual danger (abusive men) makes it highly unlikely they can detect the far milder rumination of lonely men. Where am I going askew in this analysis?
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 12:28 AM
4

I don't think the average sadboy is dangerous, so that's not really relevant to the post. But, as I just said: abusive men are dangerous and still find partners, so women certainly do not seem to have an intrinsic ability to "sense danger from behavior."
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 12:23 AM
13

Those who "don't even try" aren't the subject of this post. I haven't seen any evidence that there are men who "try but fail", it's kinda the whole reason I made this post.
/r/PurplePillDebate05/12/25 12:18 AM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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