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BadGyalElise Archive

View 3 posts and 174 comments by BadGyalElise on TheRedPill subreddit and various other subreddits related to The Red Pill community.
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1

I am not ahah, but that’s absolutely a topic I would have had an opinion on. Alas, I’m positively garbage at GG.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/09/22 11:55 AM
2

I wholly agree with the incentive structure argument, on a micro level at least. I feel like it kinda disproves, or at least mitigates the last point of your previous point. Yes you could nonetheless argue that the homophobe can’t help his attraction, but you’d also be incentivising him regardless. I don’t mean that as a gotcha, it’s just to outline the different dynamics at play in the discourse. I guess it’s just then a matter of effect sizes, how much each element affects the discourse. I sti…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/09/22 02:54 AM
2

Okay, I’ll admit that you’re making good points on both cases. My only gripe is that while it is true that optics are awful in this case, I really don’t think anything gets proven or disproven by the reproductive behaviour of anyone. In this case, I don’t see how feminists being potentially attracted to dipshits disproves that as a whole certain « traditionally masculine » traits may be harmful to society at large and worth re-examining.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/09/22 02:24 AM
1

Eeehhh, I mean, would you say a guy fucking feminists as no rights to criticise feminism, or wish for women to display more internal consistency ? I don’t think so. I don’t like pomo epistemology but I don’t need it to say that if your thing is to get your dick pumped by some slutty alt-right femboy, I’d rather have you do it and feel good in your life as a comrade than ask you to tank a frustration that is effectively politically inconsequential. I mean, that’s not my thing. I’m not getting eve…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/09/22 11:42 PM
2

Don’t menkampf me, that’s funny when they diabolise men, not when we’re trying to have a serious conversation. Feminists don’t put men in trains to give them Zyclon-B showers and like, not by a fucking long shot. On the contrary, the Biden administration with the legislation they just passed on economic rebound and climate are about to create a metric ton of jobs and education opportunities in male dominated fields and industry that will probably result in the material improvement of a whole lot…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/09/22 07:10 AM
1

Classical liberalism indeed doesn’t prescribes egoism as virtue, as objectivism does. However, when it comes to the state at least, it’s foundational it remains value neutral and therefor doesn’t give peculiar political powers to specific individuals or groups for them to push their values. Classical liberalism isn’t the same as objectivism, but objectivism is perfectly compatible with classical liberalism, and I would personally argue its, let’s say emotionally consistent extension, as the oppo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/09/22 06:59 AM
0

Wait, how is that at odds with classical liberal values ? In my understanding, classical liberalism is founded on the idea that the individual level is the best political scale to consider, e.g Thatcher’s « only things I know are individuals », that everything is fine unless the law says otherwise and that said law must be kept at a minimum to maximise laissez-faire everywhere it’s viable. Maybe you’re not that radical about it but some strands of thoughts like objectivism argue about the virtue…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/09/22 04:34 AM
1

Sure, whatever.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/09/22 12:14 AM
2

Labelling oneself as a feminist often predicts very little on one’s behaviour and character. Feminism convokes numerous representation systems depending on your country, class and general political sensibility. Saying that « all feminists » are the enemy of Men is misguided at best, from a very empirical standpoint. That doesn’t mean feminism isn’t harmful to men or theoretically non-sensical. But when you label people as ennemies, especially such a large swath of people, you’d better be confide…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/22 11:57 PM
2

So you, you see the feminists you’re referring to as… Cynical politically spineless opportunists focused on short term gains and disregarding the bigger picture of gendered relationship ? May I ask your general political sensibility ?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/22 11:18 PM
-1

« Group truth » sounds bad. I sympathise with your disgust. I understand why in their cases you see it as cowardice. What I was referring to I don’t think is, on the ground that they earnestly believe in their ideal. I think their hurtful methods are misguided, uneducated and possibly counterproductive as I’m not seeing a rise in egalitarian sentiment on the horizon. But I can’t condemn it the ground of it being pragmatic or tactical, that’s the game I’m afraid. At least they are the ones genera…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/22 03:21 PM
2

I don’t know. I’m on the other side or the table usually. What I see are loud and proud feminists shamelessly bashing toxic masculinity while all of a sudden effectively punishing non-dominant behaviour and having decent lads have a bad time. I find there’s not much point to discussing with those people, they’re doing what’s right to them, others are strangers, strangers aren’t your problems for better or worse.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/22 03:11 PM
-9

Well, I’m glad that nobody was hurt even remotely. I should probably lecture you a bit about doing pet experiments in the wild but like, you’re probably aware of it already. No need to warn you about statistical significance either I assume, it’s all just anecdotal anyway. Note that I didn’t say that saying it is disgusting, it indeed isn’t, but putting people in a vulnerable position generally is, and if there’s something disgusting about words, it’s them inducing that. I do sympathise with the…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/22 02:38 PM
4

Okay, the dress thing and the general change in like, mating patterns are quite telling on their own but for the sake of it, have you considered that they might consider it as satyre, or at least not read it as expressions of dominance directed at them ? I mean, if you’ve been doing it to friends that are used to you being an ally, there would be more in play than just the dominance aspect of it. I have a close friend that acts misogynistic ironically while actually being egalitarian to the core…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/22 01:12 PM
3

I’m thinking of instrumental activism in this case, as in advocating for a certain social change like men being more agreeable, possibly explicitly (disingenuously) labelling it as attractive, while both not being actually attracted to it and more or less consciously using this injunction to gain an edge in the sexual negotiation, for instance by making the man less comfortable, or making it harder for him to be assertive, or testing his ability to juggle between performing feminism and acting a…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/22 10:31 AM
5

Alright so, I’m gonna play both sides of the coin here for the sake of the conversation. I lean more on an heavily culture-influenced explanation on this very matter, and I’ll justify why but it’s interesting nonetheless to ponder both approaches. If I was a reactionary Red Piller, I would tell you that feminism is a kind of a general, wide-spectrum bitch test. Some feminist theorists of the lesbian/female separatist/supremacist kind pushed this very interpersonal dynamic intently, as they tend …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/09/22 09:46 AM
1

Hey, sorry, I got overwhelmed IRL. This is the most current and significant ressource I could find but there's lots of previous research that broadly go in the same direction. Imhoff, R., Zimmer, F., Klein, O. et al. Conspiracy mentality and political orientation across 26 countries. Nat Hum Behav 6, 392–403 (2022). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41562-021-01258-7 Notable excerpts : "Taken together, supporters of political parties that are judged asextreme on either end of the political spectrum in ge…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/08/22 02:07 PM
1

Alright, first, I didn’t mean to imply or infer that you supported Lindsay personally beyond his academic hoax project. I’m bringing this up because, as I said, I’m really more interested in praxis and effects than raw theoretical analysis and I’m trying to tie this conversation with my previous point about respecting the line between rationalism and rationality aspected reactionarism. I’ll take a less relevant to this sub example to try to convey my logic. As you stated, there are some strands …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 06:42 PM
1

If you know other criticisms of the current thinking on gender that are as thorough and systematic as Lindsay's Why No One Cares About Feminist Theory (https://quillette.com/2018/01/02/no-one-cares-feminist-theory), I'll be thrilled to read them! Please share. I concede the point about provocation, even if it is not a deal-breaker to me. They are not, but Lindsay is on a cruisade against « post-modern neo-marxiste pedo groomers aiming to destroy the West » which miiiight reasonably be considered…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 03:55 PM
2

I disagree with Lindsay's endorsement of Trump. At the same time, I don't see how his mistakes lessen his contributions to the understanding of feminist epistemology. It doesn’t. Unless you consider that as an heuristic, you should take the theoretical elements of your political opponents with a pinch of salt. Especially considering there are plenty of people formulating critics of feminist ideology and political actions without the inflammatory langage or the conspiracy-adjacent logic. Of cours…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 03:06 PM
1

Well, it’s fitting that my position doesn’t cover feminism as it seems evident to me that the kind of zero-sum modelling of relationships it started to push as early as 30 years ago at least would lead to where we are today. I believe it’s a product of liberal (in the classical sense) hegemony rather than feminism itself as many feminists borrowing from I.e. materialist or anarchist tradition produce interesting stuff on the subject of gender but yeah, that was telegraphed long ago. It applies t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 05:44 AM
1

If this is an honest question, it never happened to me ahah. But I had people try to advocate for the elder astronauts theory while we were watching the Prometheus movie so I guess that counts. I don’t believe it’s interesting to engage with irrefutable statements on the ground of rationality or truth statements. People bend their beliefs to their interests, we all do to some extend I reckon. As such, I prefer to focus my advocacy on effects, under the assumption that it’s easier to change the m…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 05:14 AM
3

I think I know where the misunderstanding is. I’m trying to think under the hypothesis that feminism as a political movement, and in general specific strands of political advocacy wether it is environmentalism, LGBT advocacy or what not, shouldn’t be taken apart from the whole context of general progressive activism. Many feminists especially from the first waves were also Marxist or Socialist thinkers and I think neither their thinking nor advocacy can be strictly separated based on their objec…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 04:30 AM
6

I’m on my phone so it’s cumbersome to quote your message to respond but there’s two main points I’d like to address. I’m from the EU and from my understanding, feminism history of political achievements is quite different from how it went in the US, and I’m not super literate in US political history in general including the period of interest here which is the later half of the XXth. That being said, I think you underestimate the importance of the intertwining between feminism and the more gener…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates16/08/22 12:43 AM
13

Okay, I think this post deserves a very lengthy answer to acknowledge all the nuance you brought but I’m wasted so this will do for now. I don’t think it is possible to cross the divide on a large scale. As you said in another comment, Feminism in general is stuck on a Faustian bargaining loop, and while that does not apply to most people identifying with feminism you’ll meet in your everyday life for a bunch of reasons, the rhetorical devices and harmful memes nonetheless slip through mainstrea…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates15/08/22 05:10 AM
6

I’m afraid that this idea of malleable agent isn’t really actionable practically. Experiments in experimental philosophy and psychology of philosophy tend to show that people will consistently infer the perpetrator of an action as « responsible » of it, not only in a moral sense but also in a very straight forward, « people have free will » sense. Moral judgement can under specific circumstances be decoupled from this but in the thought experiments, even things like a mind controlling chip or a …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/07/22 09:27 AM
3

Weird, that absolutely is exactly my point. Everyone makes it seem like I’m against evopsych while I am demonstrably not. It’s almost like you’re not reading my messages, kinda annoying tbh.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/07/22 07:40 PM
3

I wasn’t implying that you were trying to push for reactionary politics, although you never now, but that this line of thinking was hazardous and characteristic of generally non-commendable ideologies. But yeah, all in all it seems we’re broadly agreeing on the theory. However, I’m not sure I agree about the Zeitgeist being actually that impactful in the grand scheme of things. Take Tinder for instance. Tinder does a looot of progressive and girl’s power washing. But really, under the hood, thei…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/07/22 05:19 AM
3

Did you just… read the first paragraph before answering ? Ahah, I wouldn’t blame you, that debate is indeed heated. So please consider that in no way am I opposed to proper evolutionary approaches to psychology. I am not uneasy with evopsych as a scientific discipline, as I’m not afraid of science, quite the opposite in fact. What I am afraid is political activism advancing under the guise of a sort of scienticism, or degenerate rationalism, preying on poor understanding of the actual empirical …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/07/22 07:30 PM
3

Okay, first I never said we have resolved any of the practical issues you raised. I argue that what you’re asking is not « nature vs nurture » debate, or « Tabula Rasa vs biological determinism » but grounded political questions on what do to and what can be done. The theory of mind, which the nature vs nurture debate is about, is resolved, that doesn’t mean psychology as a whole is resolved. Second, all your three questions involve value statements and science, beyond understanding the biologic…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/07/22 04:03 PM
4

Epistemology isn’t mere philosophy. It’s the formation of knowledge, the grounding block of science. This is where you start, for there is no worth in data without a reading grid. Your questions are otherwise the same I have. On male faces, I suggest you look to neoteny. You can look at Social Dominance Theory and how it intersects with evolutionary results. You look at anthropology and see the diversity of trait expression to get a sense of which one are plastic and which one aren’t. This is th…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/07/22 03:49 PM
3

I can’t think of any academic references from the top of my head, it’s from my university lectures or vulgarisation lessons not available in English, tho there probably are English equivalents. You’ll get to this point pretty quickly by learning about epistemology applied to psychology and evolutionary psychology, as well as general cognitive psychology theory. I’m not saying that much beyond that reality, it’s more about the kind of affirmation the epistemic framework allows, and less about pec…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/07/22 12:31 PM
7

Okay, I’m not really sure why I’m answering to this considering we’re very closely aligned and you said you don’t want to argue around that for ages ahah. I guess it’s performative for those who may not have been exposed to this perspective yet. I don't believe it is some conspiracy though. I don’t either, especially on a general, cross-generational, cross-cultural sense. And I don’t believe in class-conscious behaviour, generally but especially along gender lines, and especially for men conside…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/07/22 11:55 AM
5

Idealistically, I would agree. Practically, it’s a good heuristic and that’s fine by me. Reactionaries are simply a blight to any progressive movement. I am absolutely convinced that human psychology is sexually dimorphic, especially when it comes to vocational interests. I am also absolutely convinced that this alone doesn’t explain the 95-5 men to women ratio on some engineering fields, or (and especially) the opposite for some « care » work fields. I am absolutely convinced that reproductive …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/07/22 05:54 AM
4

The idea that some differences might be innate, and therefore unchangeable by social conditioning, runs counter to a lot of people's gender egalitarian values. And for good reasons. You’re just effectively calling for reactionary politics with this, I suggest you look at differentialist feminism to get a sense of what you’re asking for. The reason being that this statement is simply untrue. You can’t conflate traits, in the case of evopsych cognitive modules or programs, and behaviours which are…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/07/22 05:34 AM
14

The « nature vs nurture » debate is long resolved in the scientific community, and anyone still trying to resurrect it is either misguided or disingenuous. The truth is that evolved cognitive programs are multiple, multi-modal and very often conflicting with one another, which in turns results in a certain level of behavioural plasticity and personal specificity, or « idiosyncrasies ». What I often see personally in this sub is people, and sorry if this sounds offensive but, hiding behind someth…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/07/22 10:33 PM
6

Yeah, it’s exactly what I mean by it’s not possible to have a meaningful conversation. It’s like literal. The affects in play just don’t permit it, and I don’t really know how to overcome that deadlock. So I don’t know what to tell you really. I recognise that you’re starved and that it’s hard and hurtful on multiple levels. You didn’t get to experience the other side yet act judgemental about how it is, but I know some women do the same with your experience so… yeah, deadlocked.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/07/22 10:46 AM
6

Alright, so what you were actually trying to talk about is specifically approaching from a dating/romantic perspective. That makes sense. I understand how it feels, I have been in this shoes despite not being very gynoromantic. I also know now that the x00(0)th « hey cutie, [callback of bio]. Anyway, how are you doing ? » just… have put that feeling into perspective. As a guy, when a girl approaches you it’s indeed one in a lifetime, it probably never happened to you before and suddenly, you’re …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/07/22 08:41 AM
5

I don't see that at all. Every time I've spoken about this subject I've been served up the argument I outlined in my post: "Oh, they just have to be that way to protect themselves." or "If they were being cold to you, then you probably did something to deserve it you fucking creep." No one ever chastised women for not being nice to me. In fact they made excuses. I can assure you it is a thing. You don’t pull a job or master’s interview with a bitch resting face. « You should smile more » is a re…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/07/22 06:28 AM
5

Women are twice as likely, on an individual level, to have a child (~80% Vs ~40%). Do you have a source for that ?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/07/22 10:25 PM
14

I disagree strongly. It’s not about being allowed to be cold or dismissive, but about the very specifics of gender coded interactions that cannot be generalised by such broad strokes. In retail jobs, which are predominantly held by women, being even mildly warm is frowned upon with a wide array of outcomes on your professional and financial prospects. This is the OG Marxist definition of emotional labour, having some level of mood pretending baked into the job. And it’s undeniable that on a prof…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/07/22 04:13 PM
3

Unlike eco-feminists (believe it or not, that's a real term), we egalitarians recognize explicitly that it is in fact men who are most victimized by AGW. And that is NOT to discount the real sacrifices and heroism of women who also work in these same roles Thank fucking invisible gas man in the sky someone said this out loud, I’ve been itching to for weeks. Also note that in situation of migratory movements, which AGW will most likely induce, it’s men who will be more likely to be rejected/stigm…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/07/22 12:02 AM
12

Okay so, I basically went through the whole blog and… I mean, it’s a pretty accurate rendition of post-modernism. But it’s also incredibly reactionary. I think the most telling part is how conveniently it makes « truth » the focus of the conversation. I mean on this very subject he has a point, pomo thinkers often reject the notion of truth itself, which is a fascist staple. But not all political conversations are rooted in reasonable, declarative statements about the world. In fact, I would arg…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/07/22 05:58 AM
1

I don’t feel super at ease comparing the two as it’s probably quite differentiated qualitatively but yeah, I get the spirit. And yeah, zero doubt there’s a tall (and generally handsome) privilege for men but I’m not sure it relates to the empathy gap like neoteny certainly does. I could see the two conflicting and mitigating each other in some cases.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/07/22 03:44 PM
5

Yeah, that’s where I was going. So that means more youth-featured men should receive more empathy. That’s something. I’m not sure about the halo effect, « handsome » men benefit from it too yet they might not be « pretty ». Or, it’s a matter of representation of pretty which would be more plastic.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/07/22 12:28 PM
5

Is there some research on the cognitive mechanism behind the empathy gap ? My naive hypothesis would be that the differentiated prevalence of high/low trust facial features between the sexes plays a moderate to large role in this effect, which would give more room to work with than an empathy differential based upon sex directly.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/07/22 04:13 AM
4

I mean… what did you expect from TERF island ? To answer your question, the more I browse this sub and read about anarchosocialism and self-management politics, the more I believe the most revolutionary thing to do about men’s empowerment is to… not demand anything of them basically. Literally stopping trying to regulate or control them, radically. That extends to asking them to care for anyone, including other men. I’ll second what someone else has said in the comments. The most effective way t…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/07/22 04:03 AM
1

Yeah, TERFs/some political lesbians do be like that. They’d rather extend lesbianism to heterosexual relationships than admit they don’t see trans men as men. I mean, more power to them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/07/22 06:04 PM
0

On the global scheme of progress, I don’t really know how I feel about it. It’s blatantly false, that’s for sure but I can’t really say about it’s usefulness. Up to somewhere into 3rd wave feminism I think it has been a net positive with only marginal direct effect on men’s disparagement but nowadays I don’t think so if only for its lack of popularity. I can see a future where being endorsed by feminists is a poisonous gift for one trying to talk to the working class, and that’s no way to bring …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/07/22 05:36 PM
0

I agree, you can’t in good faith compare this two things, but that’s nonetheless a circumvention of the idealistic radlib « sovereignty over one’s own body » argument. That means you have to do like actual politics again and define a « common good » and now you got reactionaries whining about queer people disturbing their children’s development by simply being visible and « feminists » endangering the whole of society with their « feminine » soft values. And Venezuela. This reads to me that we h…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/07/22 12:22 PM
4

I mean, once you go right enough, you got some craaazy things laid out on paper like institutionally regressing 70% of the population to medieval peonage and another 20% to 19th century industrial work. But I guess talking about actual current day policies would have a too high risk to get people to wake up.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/07/22 11:33 AM
6

I know, I just never heard it laid that clear in the West like, ever. And I spend a whole lot too much time looking at far-right stuff.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/07/22 11:21 AM
17

It's something people […] claim has to exist to enable an "equal" society. Erm… what the fuck ???
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/07/22 11:15 AM
0

I give almost 100% credency to the theoretical framework but that doesn’t say much. In practical cases I would give a high credency to every example I gave in the post which says more but still is grossly simplified and doesn’t tell the full picture, tho arguably getting the full picture is impossible. Each case must be examined and critiqued with references from the best epistemological framework available, and credency must be given subsequently. The amount of charity you’re willing to give in…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/07/22 07:35 AM
2

It’s… complicated, if you want to give some credence to the idea. Reasonably it’s not one or the other of those propositions, but probably an interaction of all of them in layers. Like, we know people like tradcons or alt-righters push certain gendered stereotypes on people, both men and women. Some of them might be doing it out of principle but realistically, they just are dominator types that get off on the idea of oppressing others and having an edge over them this way. And you know the conse…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/06/22 02:48 AM
2

It depends on the theory. Some say it’s just self-reproducing due to mimetic behaviours, others that it’s because of it’s compatibility with intuitive, « natural » tendencies, others that it’s a concerted effort from influential people that radiates through the whole of society.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/06/22 12:38 AM
3

I think the feminist point is either that there is a concerted effort to brainwash women which they would have to organise against, or that the brainwashing comes from an over-arching abstract structure like misogynistic vocational models that would disproportionately (or even exclusively) disparage women, for some to the benefit of men. It’s not necessarily a matter of inter-personal power dynamic, but rather an immanent force-field altering relationships, often assumed equal otherwise.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/06/22 12:16 AM
6

37% of women are anti-choice, according to the data from OP. That’s nonetheless probably inconsistent with feminist hypothesis of men brainwashing women but still.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/06/22 05:09 PM
1

Yes, and I refer to my university classmates with part-time jobs on top of their volunteering time. Those two things can and do co-exist.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/06/22 07:49 PM
1

Well to be fair, that seems to be the experience of a lot of people on this sub which is absolutely at odds with mine. I tend to stay away from Twitter or online leftist spaces and IRL, « feminist » identifying people aren’t really that misandristic beyond the buzzwords and the theoretical shortcomings.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/06/22 05:53 PM
2

I really don’t know honestly, I haven’t thought this one out through yet. It’s just interesting to see it’s a configuration in which the gender dimension isn’t as prevalent, which never happens for trans women. And trad(itionalist)con(servative)s are about us being monstrous hyper-masculine men, basically. Sex craving Machiavellian ruthless beasts with libido for a soul.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/06/22 04:56 AM
2

Yeah, that’s the classic duality indeed. Although, note that sometimes, TERFs consider trans men as « class traitors » which… I don’t know, isn’t really sexist either way ? It’s like if the whole gender part is less of a big deal for them, tho the trans part absolutely is equally. Also, chasers are misogynistic to trans women. And also, tradcons, absolutely misandristic.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates27/06/22 04:20 AM
6

Tradcons. Never forget tradcons. TERFs are easy to notice.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 11:36 PM
3

Thanks for laying that out this neatly. I’ve pondered doing it as well but I think my sassiness would have turned vitriolic, which you haven’t been.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 11:34 PM
2

… did we actually expose the alt-right ? You’re still sitting on a powder keg from where I am, the damage is done. As for racism, here we are again with a resurgence of « states rights » and it is not a matter of the actual constitutionality of Roe, because virtually nobody gives a shit about either of those. It is a valid sociological question but it accepts a number of answers depending on your epistemological framework and political agenda. That alone would have been a gotcha because « a chic…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 08:14 PM
1

Uh, I wouldn’t say « what is a woman ? » to defeat the notion of people being trans is either smart or unbiased. It’s perfectly cohesive with his essentialist framework and just fuels this conservative approach to politics that amounts to a fat « gotcha ». That US leftists are disappointing and should be able to blast him with a pinky is no question, but that’s not to his credit.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 07:36 PM
2

Yeah well, I actually think his rhetoric is the worst part of his package to me. He really doesn’t give a single shit about making any actual sense on any level, he just makes funny faces and asks idiotic questions. I mean, that’s the game I guess, but he definitely isn’t too mad about it.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 07:00 PM
-2

I’m not disagreeing on any of that. Again, I suggest we postpone this to another time.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 06:56 PM
7

IMHO, my mistake.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 05:59 PM
1

I disagree with you on a radical level but I plan on making a dedicated post on this very subject sometimes in the future so I suggest we keep it at that for now.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 05:17 PM
10

That’s what TERFs say to trans men. Conservatives tell them they’re « not a real man » which ironically is one of the most masculinising thing you can say to someone.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 04:12 PM
7

I’ll agree on a legal level, but I strongly believe that they widely differ on the ethos level. I believe laypeople feminists are progressives nonetheless and have overall been a force of progress over the past half century. Not enough to my liking, on shaky theoretical grounds and with a clear blind angle in the shape of a man, for sure, but progress nonetheless.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 02:37 PM
4

That’s the case when you look female AND aren’t identified as trans depending on the beholder level of misandry. Sometimes, « red-women » known to be trans are treated analogically to men nonetheless because the misandry takes the hold over the intuitive identification. Sometimes it does not. I spend a lot of time in a train which is often crowded, so I happen to be seated next to people often. When I’m seated next to a woman, and in some way or another she gets to know I’m trans, if she’s a pro…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 02:19 PM
6

I don’t think it’s fair nor accurate to say that Matt Walsh is a feminist proponent. While he co-opts TERF rhetoric, he is otherwise a run-of-the-mill tradcon reactionary which comes bundled with a whole package of misogyny that feminists legitimately tries to fight against. As such, I don’t think trans liberation should entail destroying feminism, but rather resolving its internal contradiction to effectively address everyone’s issues.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 02:07 PM
9

TERFs receiving funding from the Heritage foundation always makes me chuckle. The way they act all bothered when their partners in misandry flips on them and do the most misogynistic and inhumane shit is karmically beautiful. But that should remind everyone that misandry isn’t exclusively, and I would say not even predominantly, a feminist thing. In live setting, most feminists I’ve met are trans friendly, and often aren’t much misandristic either compared to general level.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 01:47 PM
12

Well, as I said I don’t want to talk for trans men so please take this with some salt. I think male identity always supersedes female identity because male control is more important than female control. So a trans man may actually be seen as a man even on paper or with ambiguous masculine features but clear masculine signaling. However, his trans denomination will immediately tank his male status and impede him in the intra-sexual competition so the way he’ll be treated is broadly in line with o…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates26/06/22 01:35 PM
2

Great post. I empathise a whole fucking lot with the wonderful single fathers I have in my life. This science is a boon for everyone to bring to the conversation on parenting. That said, analoguous parenting outcomes in homoparental families would tend to suggest non sexually differentiated parenting roles. But in the case they actually are, which wouldn't be unreasonable otherwise, I would be curious about the role of fathers in social reproduction, and specifically social reproduction of misan…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates13/06/22 09:58 PM
1

I said nothing about women. I said "people with inflated egos", it could be anyone. Idk why you thought i was talking about women. You’re right, my apologies, that was a baseless inference. I was talking from the POV of a man and why he would say "i don't need help" and why it would be considered insulting when its coming from a Man because Male Gender Role is about strength. "I don't need help" would be perceived differently coming from a woman and that's a different topic. I arguably lived as …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates12/06/22 12:18 PM
2

I meant they won the infighting specifically, pro-fem male advocacy is completely irrelevant nowadays. They definitely didn’t win the culture war in general, not by a long shot. And yeah, I won’t bet an eye on my understanding of each feminist theory either. You got pundits from each and every obedience that will label themselves and each other differently. I’m not even sure how much the difference between materialist and Marxist feminism is clear for many feminists, let alone people in general.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/06/22 11:43 AM
2

Eehhh, isn’t that what materialist feminism is supposed to do ? Leverage historical materialism for analysing gender condition ? I thought the nut jobs were so called « marxist » feminists which just switched bourgeois and proletarian for men and women and went on with it. I’m not super literate in masculinism’s history, but from my understanding, between the 50’s and the 80´s, egalitarian masculinists and feminists were having a cautious but somewhat warm and productive understanding of each ot…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates11/06/22 06:22 AM
2

At the end of the day though, I realize I am still more privileged than 95% of people who live on this planet. Maybe you realize that, but I can assertively say that your behaviour is nonetheless influenced to some degree by the information you're exposed to in a way that isn't adequate to the reality of the world. So is mine btw, and everyone else's. I believe the only way to effectively neutralize that is to conscienciously curate your informational environment, and even that will only go so f…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/06/22 08:05 AM
2

Sure ! Pollert, Anna (1996). Gender and Class Revisited; or, the Poverty of `Patriarchy'. Sociology, 30(4), 639–659. doi:10.1177/0038038596030004002 1996, not 8, my mistake.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates10/06/22 03:37 AM
1

It’s funny how you cherry pick sentences from my points to circumvent the underlying logic. I’ll keep going anyway for some time at least. I don't, but that's probably the only way i'd change my cynical outlook on human nature. Alright, you’re probably down for the count then. "I don't need your help" is offensive those with inflated egos. Since men refuse to display vulnerabilities it hurts the egos of those who want men they consider below them in stature to admit their inferiority. Homeless m…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates09/06/22 03:18 AM
1

Well, to me the world looks cold&harsh with no respite. I know that most people are not bigots but they're still cold&distant to me. Until i feel that warmth&acceptance myself, i don't think i'll ever stop being cynical. Eh. I don’t know what to say really. How do you expect warmth and acceptance if you’re misanthropic ? If you’re waiting for an angel, you’re out of luck, they charge heavy $ for their time now. BTW I'm not downplaying helping the homeless but its easy to be nice to helpless&brok…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates07/06/22 03:48 PM
1

Oh yeah absolutely. My point is that even if/when they did, I’ll still be reluctant to leverage them.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/06/22 11:45 PM
2

Equality of outcome and equality of opportunity are more intent statements than they are actually pragmatic political programs. Equality of opportunity roughly lines up with meritocracy. It means you’re in control of your fate, and nobody is rigging the game for or against you, and specifically not the state. It also means that you would get rewarded fairly for both your efforts and your results. There’s a point to be made about meritocratic preferences being an evolved trait but it’s WIP resear…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates06/06/22 09:54 PM
1

I wish that there was an avenue for Men to express their insecurities&vulnerabilities that isn't insincere masculine posturing but Society is not going to change just because i want it to. Unlike with Women, Men are kept from being openly nice to each others because there's always a risk of being perceived as a weak coward. I agree with that, intrasexual male competition is a huge problem in our society that significantly harms most men to the material benefit of few. That wasn’t what I was talk…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/06/22 04:52 AM
0

You’ve taken this topic in a completely different direction and I do not know why. Completely different seems like a stretch, isn’t that how open conversations on the internet work ? I feel like you’re the one misconstruing my point. In every message I wrote, I did acknowledge the privacy infringement and that I didn’t find it acceptable. There’s 99 answers in this thread while I’m writing this, many of whom address exclusively this very precise dimension of the problem. Then I, and some others,…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/06/22 02:57 AM
0

Yeah well, that wasn’t happening in polite society indeed. And they weren’t teenagers either, but they sure would be mindful with whom they’d engage in it. They were also mostly conservatives, or libcons. I don’t think it’s widespread either, but I wouldn’t dismiss it as marginal.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/06/22 02:40 AM
0

Not only. It’s a matter both of privacy infringement and the fact that women have specific socialisation practices, which my answer was about initially. Privacy in a relationship is a complex topic. Both partner’s lives are intertwined and it’s expected that one may have to breach the other’s privacy for their sake. It’s unreasonable to expect that everything happening within the relationship stays within the relationship, that’s breeding ground for abuse. So it comes to what is an acceptable br…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/06/22 02:20 AM
-2

That’s a privacy issue, not a social support system modality issue.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/06/22 02:04 AM
-3

Mmh. Why is it that those men find it not acceptable in your opinion ? From my experience with locker-room talk pre-transition, privacy is not an issue. Many times have I heard detailed recounting of sexual encounters and asymmetrical labias and excessive or insufficient vaginal lubrication. The social dynamic would be different, it was less about exposing the girl to alter the power dynamic (tho arguably that would be a side effect nonetheless) and more about asserting social status and partaki…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates05/06/22 02:02 AM
-5

I don’t essentially agree. I mean yes, obviously each person in the relationship should have their privacy boundaries respected, and it will often include not disclosing this kind of information. But privacy standards vary a lot interpersonally and we’re not having those conversations at the moment. And I don’t see the significance of the size of the social support system in this situation. Having this kind of conversations around a drink or a tabletop game, or in a group conversation feels acce…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/06/22 11:55 PM
12

Yeah that’s some obnoxiously high level of BS. I guess it’s consistent with common male and female socialisation patterns, leveraging female solidarity for safety or strength garnering while men either can’t or are reluctant to leverage male solidarity for their strictly personal benefit. I don’t think those women realise that’s an invasion of privacy and the guy might not like it but, I don’t think it matters to them either. It doesn’t happen on a rational, utilitarian level, it’s just how thin…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/06/22 04:34 PM
1

I have exactly zero points of disagreement with the mission statement. I'm just unapologetically very critical of some men and male specific behavioural tendencies, as well as some (mostly inegalitarian) MRA praxis. I also find some criticism of feminism and feminists I see around here unfair and unfounded. I think seeing the LWMA flair on someone with such opinions might unsettle some people.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates04/06/22 01:58 AM
2

Hey ! What would you think about adding a « Left-wing guest » flair ? I don’t know if a significant enough amount of people would qualify, but I’m certainly not right-wing, I don’t identify as a feminist and I don’t think people here would identify me as a LWMA.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/06/22 08:40 PM
1

I never claimed to be a generous person. I can't trust people with blatantly racist&sexist beliefs, trusting people is hard enough as is. I never mentioned being generous, but the urge to be nice. Would you say you feel that urging ? Did you miss the point where Feminism added fuel to the fire by diverting resources&attention away from Men by saying Men are the privileged Gender? I did not. You seem to have missed the point where Feminism is just in continuity with traditional misandristic doxa.…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates03/06/22 06:25 PM
2

Objectivism as in Ayn Rand’s « egoism is virtue » which is as relativistic and morally bankrupted as you can go under a paint job of rationality.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/06/22 11:17 PM
1

I hope you do realise the irony of you stating this, while at the same time saying that Finding someone who can look past his/her own prejudges, is extremely rare. Also, men have been homeless long before feminism was a thing. They have been dying at war and considered serviceable for a millennia, at the very least, probably much longer. I have no problem being critical of feminism, as stated. But it seems that’s not what you’re about really.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/06/22 07:03 PM
7

I have a slightly far fetched theory that as feminism loses its influence morally bankrupt / narcissist women will need to find a ideological home. And I'm concerned that they'll join forces with similarly intentioned men and start to advocate for a form of moral relativism that could send society towards unhindered decadence and moral degeneracy. Oh gosh, I’m not ready for an objectivism revival.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/06/22 06:26 PM
1

I don’t think anything I have mentioned is subject to this argument. Every class universal I have mentioned is, I believe, class universal (provided the transfem is pursuing a physical transition). That intersectionality is used to argue beyond its scope of expertise, or even further, that it covertly invites people to do so, is a much stronger point to me than the rejection of class thinking altogether.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/06/22 12:48 PM
3

I feel like by trying to push the notion to its limit, you’re actually missing the point entirely. Intersectionality is not meant to rule over peer-to-peer interactions, but to offer an intellectual framework to think class conditions and articulate policies to alleviate class injustice. I’m transfem. There’s a number of things that do relate to this part of my identity that could be improved upon and that are shared among people with this identity. For instance, few gynaecologists (or any physi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates02/06/22 02:09 AM
1

Does that undo the fact that they go in -2°C at night to feed the homeless, which again, are mostly men ?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/06/22 06:05 PM
1

Maybe i'm too old&cynical Well, at least you’re self-aware, although it has nothing to do with age. that's a extremely rare minority in my personal experience. Most people are just cold and i remember each instance when people were genuinely nice to me, because its very rare. Tell that to my leftist feminist friends (some of whom are women) who go in pairs in the night to give food and blankets during winter to homeless people (mostly men as you know) while living with roommates and working part…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/06/22 01:58 PM
2

Well, no actually, there’s a good bunch of bleak shit happening like in your first world country rn. And most of the people I was talking about in this case are actually working class or below and some of them are even somewhat critical of mainstream feminism. Still, curating horror and pilling it all up has the same effect of biasing views and affects wether you do it intentionally or not. Note that some (far-)righties are under the same effect, except replace misogynistic/anti-LGBT violence wi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates01/06/22 08:19 AM
1

There’s that, but it also includes low RWA scores which drop consistently the more left you go. And yes, they absolutely can be attractive but that’s beyond the point. In this case, they get in double trouble.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 08:40 PM
1

That’s a not true Scotsman fallacy you’re doing. Some people hold inegalitarian values and are willing to leverage technology to enact them, and we should always have our vigilance up against that. That’s not ditching the baby out with the bath water, but fachs have been fantasising that for at least a century.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 08:33 PM
1

It doesn’t make much sense anymore now that OP’s been moderated. I should probably just have waited for you to do that. But here is some evidence anyway.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 03:00 AM
1

Alright, let’s ride the raven then.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 01:20 AM
2

Do you allow links to sci-hub or should I link the paywalled article ?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 01:16 AM
5

Del Giudice, M., Booth, T., & Irwing, P. (2012). The distance between Mars and Venus: measuring global sex differences in personality. PloS one, 7(1), e29265. https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0029265 "In univariate terms, the largest differences between the sexes were found in Sensitivity, Warmth, and Apprehension (higher in females), and Emotional stability, Dominance, Rule-consciousness, and Vigilance (higher in males)." Graziano, W. G., Jensen-Campbell, L. A., & Hair, E. C. (1996). Percei…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates31/05/22 01:01 AM
2

bows courteously
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 11:59 PM
0

That would actually go against the science of gendered differences. Women tend to be more agreeable than men on average, and will more often try to strike a compromise or a consensus. I think a more reasonable explanation is that pomoct as political praxis holds that denying speech is effective activism all around that can be applied anywhere and anytime. If everyone is a fascist trying to embezzle you in bad faith for the sake of their personal interest, there’s no point in even trying to have …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 11:54 PM
13

To second that, I don’t know if you spend some time scrolling through leftists/feminists Twitter feeds but they are very often super bleak and anxiety inducing. I’m mostly following transfems (loosely because that shit drains my sanity faster than an eldricht god and that’s not something I can afford) and it’s 80%+ reactions to transphobic politicians, people asking for money for their transition or escaping their transphobic countries, news about transphobic or misogynistic violence, OF or othe…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 11:45 PM
1

There may not be, some people also do memes on their own without any afterthought of the sort. Someone mentioned not taking memes at face value, you asked for elaboration and I elaborated.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 10:19 PM
1

It depends on who produces the meme, that’s the neat part. Everyone can do it. You pick a meme based on its attached affects, you slap your message on it and you’re go.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 09:33 PM
2

No, some people play nice because they feel the urge to be nice. It doesn’t make sense, it’s irrational, but humans aren’t homo-economicus carefully balancing their own self-interest objectively. Otherwise, we’d still be playing with rocks and stones or psychics with over 9000 IQ. I don’t prove anything. Some men are nice consistently, some men are (often obnoxiously) nice with pretty girls they pursue and awful to everyone else, including the aforementioned girls once they reject them. It’s als…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 11:23 AM
1

Urgh, well it’s a long one kinda. The TL;DR is that memes are used for propaganda to force people to tie two ideas together, or more accurately an emotion and an idea. Meme formats are highly evocative vessels with backgrounds. Some of them are so evocative you can sum them up with bars and points. What propaganda teams do is select a meme format based on the affects it carries, which if the meme is already known by the viewer are cognitively processed first (I can’t bother finding the research …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 04:49 AM
1

Uh, well there’s a misunderstanding because I legitimately didn’t notice the joke in your answer. I thought I was attempting to question the traditional definition of masculinity and you were defending it. It’s alright tho, if the conversation is bothering you it’s legitimate that you stop engaging with it. Good day !
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 04:01 AM
1

Well, they didn’t indeed. But they painted and most likely told stories and gazed at the sky and got into drama. So by tying « masculinity » not only to « traditional masculine traits » that you trace back to ancestral environment, but to a very specific slice of that environment that is focused on exogenous conflict management, I think you’re actually going in the way of properly understanding each gender’s specifics and the dynamics underlying their interactions. I don’t mind gender essentiali…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 03:29 AM
1

Well, not gonna lie but, that’s only confusing me further. First, the more a country develops economically, the more men and women behaviours tend to differentiate. It’s known as the Nordic paradox. It’s hypothesised that because ressources are abundant and people can afford more comfort, they will tend to conform less to external pressure over self-expression. So what I’m seeing is actually the opposite of your point. It’s not that men are softening or being more feminine. It’s that new opportu…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 02:50 AM
1

Wait, I’m confused then. Because women do help troubled youth and volunteer too, in the same way. I don’t see how that’s masculine. Following this, I also don’t see the distinction between masculine and manhood. If a man does it in a male specific way, I would say it’s masculine. That’s when you try to sort masculine types into masculine and non masculine subtypes that you get into trouble. Furthermore, I don’t think equating toxic or undesirable patterns to a certain subtype of masculinity is b…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates30/05/22 01:56 AM
1

Because that turns into what is often designated as covert/type-2/vulnerable narcissism in which people fuel their narcissistic engine with martyrdom and a moral high-ground instead of direct social recognition. It’s a common occurrence, wether because they estimate they don’t have what it takes to garner authentic recognition or because they are not in a situation from which they can garner it. I understand you’re trying to defend men that you feel are deserving of happiness and kinship and unf…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 07:55 PM
2

Well, that’s funny that you’re mentioning it because, I’m also a trans woman ! And, I absolutely agree with you on the differential difficulty of dating between genders. That doesn’t change the point. It’s not a just world fallacy. If you’re playing nice in order to get laid, you’re doing it wrong. Full stop. Edit : that extends to expecting that being nice will get you laid. That’s nothing to expect. If you’re genuinely nice and do not get laid, that’s another situation that I wasn’t talking ab…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 07:34 PM
1

It’s an abusively restrictive interpretation. « I believe I deserve a Sunday so I ought to get one » fits the bill too, no need for the belief to be anchored in objective or material condition. The nice guy isn’t expecting justice or fairness. He’s expecting to hack a bargaining process by pretending to be someone he is not. And he often gets not quite so nice when the bargain doesn’t go his way. In other words, agreeableness pairs poorly with narcissism and selfishness. If you’re the laters and…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 07:08 PM
1

Entitlement (from the Merriam-Webster online dictionary) : belief that one deserves or is entitled to a certain privilege. Which is the common usage regarding this conversation.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 02:22 PM
0

That’s… kinda bro-science ? Not to be offensive but, I’m skeptical every time someone brings up this « castrated by feminists » point because I grew up in a very conservative/anti-feminist community and that doesn’t reflect at all the phenomenon I would see. It also doesn’t seem to be backed by scientific research, more often is it articulated around psychoanalytical theory which is… I mean, harmful af.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 01:48 PM
2

Well, okay, that’s a better take than usual. But my point goes further. « Betas » are also males. Like, people shame them for being feminine, but they are not really, they are actually masculine. Now, they may be toxic and undesirable, that doesn’t mean they don’t need to work upon themselves and self-reflect. But some men like to play the DnD adventure instead of DMing it and I think we should normalise that.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 01:43 PM
0

I think the thing that turns people toxic the most is holding them to standard they do not want, do not identify with and that don’t serve them. I do not think most of this men are toxic because they think they are lacking masculinity, but because they feel pressured to be someone they don’t want to or can’t be. That’s what a « nice guy » is to me. A nice guy is a young agreeable man that doesn’t want to be a stereotypically agressive dominant male, and expects that being helpful and submissive …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 01:27 PM
7

Okay, I’m with you basically, but the part on « lack of masculinity » bugs me. Shouldn’t we move away from that too ? I’ve been doing research over the past couple of days for another post on sexual dimorphism in personality traits. From where I’m at, it is clear that there’s some ground for a majority of people having distinctly male or female typed personalities, according to their sex. What has no ground is one overarching masculine or feminine essence. Within each class is a broad variety of…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 03:16 AM
6

Oh my fucking god. I was so hopeful looking at your country after the constitutional referendum, it was like… idk, promethean stuff really. That’s… I don’t fucking have words. This kind of pushback happening is more telegraphed than an MMO raid boss. And it’s gonna pave the way for the brown plague basically, the Pinochet nostalgic. Just plain horrendous.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates29/05/22 01:42 AM
1

Well I mean, I’m pretty sure some fucks do want that, or at least don’t care if it happens. That’s just not something you can say at the moment.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/22 08:52 PM
1

It’s funny because, to me, TERFs and some strands of greens are just pretty much right wing. That’s why I favour the political psychology’s definition of left and right over the mundane one, it is so much more consistent with way better explicative potential. Also, I don’t think sexual violence is mostly a problem for attractive women. Queer and POC women get their fair share of shit too.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates28/05/22 08:47 PM
1

I think you’re misunderstanding the spirit because of tripwire keyword. Some people in the comments got it, but fair enough.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/05/22 10:25 AM
1

The value is obvious to me in my daily life. It makes me happy, and I might be mistaken but I don’t think it makes me any less rational. It was true before E, and it was true before I rationalise it as I was intuitively seeking gnostic symbolism and art while consciously despising the belief system. And it’s the same for many of my male friends.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates25/05/22 01:10 AM
1

Damn, I didn’t make the connection, those are really good points.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 11:32 PM
1

Okay so, I’ve been a skeptic/atheist/science advocate for a long time. I’m not pushing for irrationality. My point is that humans in general are rationalising rather than rational creatures. We are in general drawn to things that don’t actually make sense like believing in invisible men in the sky. I believe our brain has an affinity for things « mystical » that we can’t really help by just plain denying it. I see pitfalls around this. The first one is people going full on batshit lunatic believ…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 11:30 PM
2

Oomph, Zodiac shaming. Yikes. I’m the same really, I have a couple of gorgeous tarot decks that I mostly just fan and sometimes do secular tarot with, yet not for a second do I believe they are actually predicting the future. It’s leveraging the Barnum effect for exploratory purposes, if you will. I also do memento mori coin throwing once in a while to see how I react, but I don’t do it in the midst of a heated decision, that’s a sure fire way to regret it down the road.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 11:12 PM
1

The thing is, it doesn’t have to be traditional to trigger some if not all of the mystic affect. It can do it for sure, but there’s a lot you can do without it. It can also be a way to experiment outside of traditional masculine roles or subverting them. My point is that some women have been able to separate the mystic affect from the religiosity for their benefit, and I don’t see men doing it that much.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 10:59 PM
1

He does kinda have a point, as it has been shown that supernatural beliefs tend to lead to other, sometimes more impactful beliefs. Skeptics cheekily call homeopathy the « gateway drug to lunacy ». The ironic part is that I was specifically not talking about beliefs but you know…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 09:43 PM
2

Open it is indeed. But do men attend it ?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 09:18 PM
5

Yeah that was my whole point. I don’t do that either, I just like gnostic art and wearing meaningless trinkets. My best friend takes 30 minutes every other day to « religiously » shave his face with his grand father razor. He has a nice wooden bowl to whip the shaving cream, he always does the same pattern for removing the hair, he never changes cream scent. You know, a dumb ritual with artefacts that makes him feel good.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 09:11 PM
2

While this is correct, I feel like it kinda misses the point I’m trying to make. Every other feminist is a « grand-daughter of the witches you burned », has an altar with a cute little TST figure, some dry wood and rocks, and brews potions of rosemary, cloves and CBD during full moon. Meanwhile, very few secular men are Jedis despite it being pro-active and demanding to « attune yourself with the force » through action. It sounds silly but really, it’s no more than secular witchcraft and the Jed…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 09:06 PM
2

Ahah alright, that’s great actually. It also fits the bill indeed. Are you implying that men actually do have their share of this mystical affect in general, just with a different glamour ? Because the way I see it with those examples is evidence that mysticism always slips back despite the stigma.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 08:11 PM
2

Yeah, I absolutely thought about Masonic lodges while writing this. Unfortunately they are select clubs that most men will never come close to. Sports also have rituals and superstition indeed but to me it most often falls into the sketchy category, cloaked as some form of rationality and militarised for profit, like sports’ betting for instance. I guess team rituals like dances and songs and parades check more boxes, yet they don’t seem deliberate enough to me. But, it’s not for me, and you’re …
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 07:49 PM
3

Bertrand Russell, Religion and Science, 1935. I’m merely parroting him here on the value of mysticism. He argues for a distinction between the religious affect and the belief system, stating that the former has some merits that the later undermines through negation of reason. I further argue, in line with Sam Harris (which I don’t like that much otherwise) that we can socially engineer this affect to leverage its positive aspects without falling into nihilism.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 07:39 PM
9

Yeah, we don’t give much shit about it, it’s great. Secularism at its finest. I wish we would produce more good sci-fi tho, that would be glorious.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 05:21 PM
2

Well comrade, you got enough good faith in you to realise that axiological questions (values) supersedes epistemological questions (knowledge), or in other words : « natural » doesn’t mean « good ». Note that red-pullers and PUAs, among others, don’t want you to bring axiological things in the conversation, as the good liberal-conservatives they are. Regarding your point about it being not developed or accessible enough, I think there is some truth to that, but sometimes it can inform our opinio…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 10:25 AM
1

Note that this also works with less, or differently biologically determined games. Selling actual snake oil was a thing back in the days.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates24/05/22 10:07 AM
3

Well, some significant percent of the time, they are right-wingers so… checks out.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/05/22 11:44 AM
6

There is also something very right-wing about chivalry. Just laying that casually here.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates23/05/22 02:56 AM
1

Ahah, you might be right, I sure am guilty of this too.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 11:09 PM
2

It’s often misused in politically or ideologically motivated ways indeed. Yet the blank slate hypothesis is impossible to hold nowadays, and it is admitted as such everywhere but about specific hot topics like criminality or sexual dimorphism. I think there is no choice nowadays but to give a rational and rigorous look.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 10:56 PM
1

Alright, there’s a lot of things in there. I have a hard time understanding how you are inferring more « reason » to men than women in this situation. From my perspective, a lot of this men are absolutely as irrational as diehard feminists. It’s common in men spaces to have someone link a scientific piece that refutes or at least contrasts their point in an attempt to support it. Often this seems to happen because somewhere in the paper there is a phrase or two that picked apart support their ar…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 10:20 PM
1

Eh, quite ballistic aren’t you ?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 08:00 PM
1

Okay, that is absolutely ridiculous indeed. But I think you’re estimating how much people try to seek consistency within their ideology. I’m sure, from experience, that most feminist/egalitarian men do not believe they are reeducation material, but rather that they need to make a conscious deliberate effort to restrain their misogyny. Ideologies are way crazier then people, common-sense is a strong mitigating force.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 04:28 PM
1

Case and point.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 03:38 PM
3

I don’t want you to fight anything. I’m noticing you’re not trying to fight, that’s all. I see plenty of men that do try to fight with different approaches and successes. I’m wondering why you don’t.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 03:25 PM
1

I wouldn’t say male feminists are fatalists. They may be otherwise, but patriarchy wouldn’t be the axis of their fatalism, they purportedly advocate for weakening/smashing it. Explaining is not necessarily coping on and off itself.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 03:18 PM
5

Transhumanism lesgoooo. I wouldn’t put left and right back to back on this subject tho. Culture is a form of technology on its own, the problem with the leftist stance is science denialism, not thinking culture is a valid vector of progress. The right however is definitely full of shit.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 03:13 PM
3

Yeah, this post stems from our conversation actually, and the follow up I’ve had with a RL friend. I’m not sure I completely agree with you on this one. I don’t reject postmodernism entirely, otherwise we wouldn’t have quantum theory, or anything beyond antic cosmogony really. At some point in the process of forming knowledge, you need some level of creativity to start trailblazing. I don’t think people like Delleuze meant anything else by suggesting to look for « spectral traces ». But this alo…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 03:11 PM
2

Okay, that was worded poorly. You are right, I have no significant idea of the prevalence of each approach. Let me rephrase. I was wondering what the appeal of other approaches is, regardless of their prevalence.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 01:45 PM
3

I think I must be expressing myself poorly. It seems that for a large number of men, there is solace to be found in biologically deterministic thinking. Not for the sake of science, because they have a skewed understanding of the theory and seemingly don’t care. Not for the sake of dating either for the same reason, plus the fact that the available data is way less dire than what they believe. So there must be something else at play. Others have answered : preference for « hard science » or at l…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 01:29 PM
1

I’m not talking about women biological determinants solely, I’m talking about men’s as well. I know MTGOWs are a diverse bunch with different movements, strategies and affects. Some of them play the « red pill game » while skipping the commitment phase. Some others decide to stay true to themselves and find ways to accommodate their lack of appeal instead. I was wondering why such an approach is not more widespread, for instance.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 01:11 PM
4

You’d be surprised to know then that Feudal Japan had male homosexuality frequency as high as 40%. It’s difficult to find data on such a period, I’ll do some digging if you wish, but we know for a fact that for them, peak romanticism was androphillic. That didn’t turn the whole population gay, that’s for sure, but that’s a hell of a lot more than the 3% (10 if you count bisexuality) in the western world. But anyway, that’s beyond the point. We both agree that sexuality is to some extent biologic…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 12:59 PM
1

I don’t, I’m perfectly aware of the differences. The similarity is that in both cases, biological determinants are considered immovable, and the difference lies in the definition of determinants.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 12:44 PM
1

Did you read the body of the message ?
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 12:29 PM
1

It’s not only PUAs. It’s people right here aswell. I’m not lumping anyone together, I’m keeping it broad to ask questions, and I got some nice disparate answers ! But you’re right, I’ll change the wording.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 12:12 PM
1

I’m with you on that, but I was wondering policy wise. It feels weird to medicalise identity to me, which is distinct from studying and understanding it rationally.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates22/05/22 02:32 AM
1

How would that apply to trans people in this present case ? Because if you want to bend my sense of self by means of science I’m gonna be quite cross with you ngl.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates21/05/22 08:08 PM
2

I don’t know if reading that makes me smile hopefully or crumble in despair. My face kinda does both at the same time. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/05/22 04:01 PM
0

Eh. You didn’t really, I just get kinda twitchy when people talk about « LGBT voices dissenting with the consensus » because 95% of the time, those voices are TERFs, transmeds and fascists which makes for the most intuitively non-sensical yet evolutionarily predictable alliance. So I’m just laying my dissenting progressive voice on the table.
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/05/22 03:13 PM
3

I’ve not been looking for long so far, but from what I’m seeing, correlation is significant basically all across the board of aspects, but effect size is always between low and moderate per aspect. Also big inter-individual variance within each class, but I hope that goes without saying. Yes, trangenderism is correct I would say. We can’t let fascists deny every word in the fucking dictionary. I would broadly agree with your point to be honest, what I was arguing about is etiology centric vs out…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/05/22 01:02 PM
4

Hey, I don’t want be to be rude or anything but I’m under the impression that talking about some nuance in this case is a bit euphemistic. I’m glad that naturalising and predictive behavioural science are gaining some traction on the left, even if on the fringe only for now. That is something we’re sorely gonna need. But for us to get the most of it, we need to apply it correctly. For instance, it’s important to consider the plasticity and heterogeneity of evolved mental modules. 0.7 waist to hi…
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates20/05/22 12:06 PM
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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